JPH
02-22-2006, 21:12
To Admins: I feel that I have looked at nearly all threads relating to boots for about every situation I can imagine being in for the next 2 or so years of my life. I have learned a lot but feel that my over riding questions has not been fully answered. If I have missed a thread that contains this information then I apologize for the over kill. Feel free to delete this post and I only ask that someone point me to that thread. Also feel free to move this if it should be in the another Thread. Thank-you.
My Questions In Short: 1. What boots should I be buying to train in for SFAS that I can then use at SFAS and that met ALL requirements, both the uniform and needs of training? 2. What types of socks will work best with these boots and also is allowed at SFAS?
My Research and Background: I have “Get Selected” and have read it and it’s chapters on Foot Care and Boots. I have also read the gear list in the back of this great book. Also like I stated above I have read every thread I can find on this board.
I am a backpacker and mountaineer, I also volunteer with the Boy Scouts of America. Although the number and type of miles I have logged in my short life are vastly different than those you men have, I have a good “basic” understanding of my feet, and long term foot care when relying on them to get me from point A to point B over a longer period of time (1-3 weeks without comforts of civilization) in adverse and differing conditions ranging from the southern end of the Rocky Mountains in northern New Mexico to the Grand Tetons, and summer time Alaska. These miles where under a 45-75 pounds of gear in a civilian backpack that fit me very very well. In addition I have hundreds of weekend backpacking trips under my belt.
My Plans and Concerns:
I plan on buying up to 4 pairs of boots between now and the time I leave. 2 summer and 2 colder weather i.e. full leather. I what to buy them, break them in, train in them (train as I fight, fight as I train mentality), and then set them back for SFAS. I want everything that I can control to be as it will be during SFAS, all other phases of training, and then later as I will need for my career. Of course all this is being said with the understanding that things change, improve, and degrade… and everything will be dictated my mission needs.
So I know that the two best boots I have ever worn where made by Vasque. I know that I have always used a two sock system changing them at lest once a day and up to 4 times a day depending on environment and miles logged. The tallest boot was the Vasque Men’s Sundowner GTX Full Leather (what I currently have). The socks I use are Smartwool Light Hiker or the Thorlo Backpacking/Trekker Sock; in combination with Wiqwam CoolMax Liner socks. So tall combat boots are new to me!!!
Wellco Boots receive such high marks here that I am going to try a pair as I have time to switch if they don’t work for me.
Question 1. Can we start a list of boot makers and models that aren’t crap and will be allowed at SFAS? I am going to make my first pair of Wellco boots the Black VCL-ICB, what opinions do the QPs have on this?
I had a question here about liner socks but “who would have thought” this information was already covered in another post that I just found. With that said I thought it might be worth quoting as one is good info and the other a great point
Warrior-Mentor: “Because I've gotten a number of questions (PMs & e-mails) ref polypro socks, wanted to post an interim update to GET SELECTED here. (pages 7-1 and 7-5).
Polypro socks work well at wicking the moisture away from your skin and thus help prevent blisters.
Problem is, as of today, they're STILL not authorized at SFAS. (See SFAS Packing List in GET SELECTED on Page E-7. Verified polypro socks not authorized at SFAS with the 18X Coordinator at the Special Operations Recruiting Battalion on 10AUG05).
Here's the deal...
Because you can't use them while AT SFAS, you shouldn't use them while training FOR SFAS. Train as you fight. Ruck until you get hot spots, then fix your feet.
After SFAS, you can use them. I still swear by them.
Hope this clarifies what you need to know to be successful.
Cast or Tab,
JM”
CBS: “This topic, whether or not the author intended it to so become, points out a key feature of SFAS selection ... and OCS selection .... and Ranger selection .... and ... LIFE.
Don't count on a technology, a gimmick, a current situation/defination/standard to be your sole benchmark of qualification or ability.
Whether it's polypropylene socks, vs. plain old army issue wool; or GPS vs. map and compass; M16A2 vs. M4 vs. FN/FAL; or any other situation or status to define your ability and qualifications as a soldier, get right with the basics and IF the situation allows you to use a more forgiving strategy, change in the future.
I feel like the high school teacher I used to hate: learn long division, you may not have a calculator; learn to take a pulse and measure a temperature ... the skill was important 100 (or 1,000) years ago and will be important 100 (or 1,000) years from now. If you are helpless because you are without your poly socks, or creatine supplement, or because you have never had to get out and perform in Heat Category IV, you need to look somewhere other than Special Forces as a career choice.
End of rant.
CB”
I hope that this will become a useful thread that others can use.
Thank-you,
JPH
First two links:
http://www.batesfootwear.com/
http://www.wellco.com/
My Questions In Short: 1. What boots should I be buying to train in for SFAS that I can then use at SFAS and that met ALL requirements, both the uniform and needs of training? 2. What types of socks will work best with these boots and also is allowed at SFAS?
My Research and Background: I have “Get Selected” and have read it and it’s chapters on Foot Care and Boots. I have also read the gear list in the back of this great book. Also like I stated above I have read every thread I can find on this board.
I am a backpacker and mountaineer, I also volunteer with the Boy Scouts of America. Although the number and type of miles I have logged in my short life are vastly different than those you men have, I have a good “basic” understanding of my feet, and long term foot care when relying on them to get me from point A to point B over a longer period of time (1-3 weeks without comforts of civilization) in adverse and differing conditions ranging from the southern end of the Rocky Mountains in northern New Mexico to the Grand Tetons, and summer time Alaska. These miles where under a 45-75 pounds of gear in a civilian backpack that fit me very very well. In addition I have hundreds of weekend backpacking trips under my belt.
My Plans and Concerns:
I plan on buying up to 4 pairs of boots between now and the time I leave. 2 summer and 2 colder weather i.e. full leather. I what to buy them, break them in, train in them (train as I fight, fight as I train mentality), and then set them back for SFAS. I want everything that I can control to be as it will be during SFAS, all other phases of training, and then later as I will need for my career. Of course all this is being said with the understanding that things change, improve, and degrade… and everything will be dictated my mission needs.
So I know that the two best boots I have ever worn where made by Vasque. I know that I have always used a two sock system changing them at lest once a day and up to 4 times a day depending on environment and miles logged. The tallest boot was the Vasque Men’s Sundowner GTX Full Leather (what I currently have). The socks I use are Smartwool Light Hiker or the Thorlo Backpacking/Trekker Sock; in combination with Wiqwam CoolMax Liner socks. So tall combat boots are new to me!!!
Wellco Boots receive such high marks here that I am going to try a pair as I have time to switch if they don’t work for me.
Question 1. Can we start a list of boot makers and models that aren’t crap and will be allowed at SFAS? I am going to make my first pair of Wellco boots the Black VCL-ICB, what opinions do the QPs have on this?
I had a question here about liner socks but “who would have thought” this information was already covered in another post that I just found. With that said I thought it might be worth quoting as one is good info and the other a great point
Warrior-Mentor: “Because I've gotten a number of questions (PMs & e-mails) ref polypro socks, wanted to post an interim update to GET SELECTED here. (pages 7-1 and 7-5).
Polypro socks work well at wicking the moisture away from your skin and thus help prevent blisters.
Problem is, as of today, they're STILL not authorized at SFAS. (See SFAS Packing List in GET SELECTED on Page E-7. Verified polypro socks not authorized at SFAS with the 18X Coordinator at the Special Operations Recruiting Battalion on 10AUG05).
Here's the deal...
Because you can't use them while AT SFAS, you shouldn't use them while training FOR SFAS. Train as you fight. Ruck until you get hot spots, then fix your feet.
After SFAS, you can use them. I still swear by them.
Hope this clarifies what you need to know to be successful.
Cast or Tab,
JM”
CBS: “This topic, whether or not the author intended it to so become, points out a key feature of SFAS selection ... and OCS selection .... and Ranger selection .... and ... LIFE.
Don't count on a technology, a gimmick, a current situation/defination/standard to be your sole benchmark of qualification or ability.
Whether it's polypropylene socks, vs. plain old army issue wool; or GPS vs. map and compass; M16A2 vs. M4 vs. FN/FAL; or any other situation or status to define your ability and qualifications as a soldier, get right with the basics and IF the situation allows you to use a more forgiving strategy, change in the future.
I feel like the high school teacher I used to hate: learn long division, you may not have a calculator; learn to take a pulse and measure a temperature ... the skill was important 100 (or 1,000) years ago and will be important 100 (or 1,000) years from now. If you are helpless because you are without your poly socks, or creatine supplement, or because you have never had to get out and perform in Heat Category IV, you need to look somewhere other than Special Forces as a career choice.
End of rant.
CB”
I hope that this will become a useful thread that others can use.
Thank-you,
JPH
First two links:
http://www.batesfootwear.com/
http://www.wellco.com/