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Airbornelawyer
02-15-2006, 20:00
''China's Strategy of Containing India''

http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=434&language_id=1

A fairly comprehensive analysis of the issues and developments in this part of the world, and worth a read.

It is somewhat interesting that while Americans and Europeans discuss international developments in a post Cold War world in a context that seems to imply transcending traditional balance of power politics and its focus on state actors, China is pursuing what appears to be classic balance of power politics regarding its neighbors and strategic rivals. China perceives itself as surrounded by potential enemies (principally Russia, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam and India), and seeks to upset any containment strategy on the part of these countries and the US which might bring them closer, while at the same time pursuing a containment strategy as regards India.

I imagine Chinese planners must have to note that while China is surrounded by a number of major first and second tier military and economic powers, Chinese containment of India has to rely on states like Nepal, Sri Lanka, Burma and Bangladesh. Of the states bordering India other than China itself, only Pakistan, a nuclear state and supporter of terrorist movements in India, is remotely a threat to India.

Roguish Lawyer
02-16-2006, 11:41
Of the states bordering India other than China itself, only Pakistan, a nuclear state and supporter of terrorist movements in India, is remotely a threat to India.

Only "remotely"?

rwt_bkk
03-16-2006, 20:15
China still sees itself in the traditional role (The Emporer) in it's relations with Asia. It wants recognition and influence in the region. It has a stong cohesive and long range policy for all of it's neighbors.

The containment of India has been a the root of it's relations with Pakistan, Bangledesh and Burma. One very unnoticed (or not talked about) is the relations with Burma. China has major radar and signals intelligence based in Burma with the prime objective of watching the Indian Ocean.

The Chinese Naval buildup is a direct counter to those states in the region that has a long term potential for disruption of what is now the main lifeline of China - sea trade. It is also a subtle threat against those same states (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Phillipines and Vietnam) who are also very dependent on sea transport as a part of their national economy.

With the Burma bases, China now has fast and immediate access to the Straits of Malacca. he Strait carries 50,000 vessels per year, carrying between one-fifth and one quarter of the world's sea trade. A quarter of all oil shipments carried by sea come through the Strait, in 2003, an estimated 11 million barrels (1,700,000 m³) a day, a trade that is expected to expand as oil consumption rises in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straits_of_Malacca


http://community.middlebury.edu/~scs/docs/Zubir%20and%20Basiron,%20Malacca,%20America,%20and %20China-MIMA%20Online.pdf

One thing is for certain. China is the worry of the next century, especially since the PLA has indicated that in the future they are planning for force projection outside of China's borders for the first time in over a 1000 years.

Airbornelawyer
03-16-2006, 21:24
China still sees itself in the traditional role (The Emporer) in it's relations with Asia. It wants recognition and influence in the region. It has a stong cohesive and long range policy for all of it's neighbors.

The containment of India has been a the root of it's relations with Pakistan, Bangledesh and Burma. One very unnoticed (or not talked about) is the relations with Burma. China has major radar and signals intelligence based in Burma with the prime objective of watching the Indian Ocean.

A somewhat weird tangent:

A week or so ago, I was surfing through a website on closed amusement parks in Florida (mainly looking for information on one I went to as a kid - Six-Gun Territory). I came across a theme park which recreated in miniature various historical places in China. It opened in the 1990s and closed soon after, but during its short life it was apparently the site of protests. Among other criticisms, it included miniatures of "Chinese" sites like the Dalai Lama's Potala Palace. As the site Florida's Lost Tourist Attractions (http://www.lostparks.com/index.html) states: "The park's critics charged that depictions of Tibet's Potala Palace, Mongolian Yurts, and other landmarks from other cultures as being within China were attempts to legitimize Chinese Communist occupation of formerly independent areas, that the multiplicity of religious sites gave a false impression of religious and cultural tolerance within China when those religions were being oppressed, and that the park was actually owned and operated by the Chinese Government through China Travel Services and was in violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act."

Flash forward to this weekend and the "network" (TBS) television premiere of the Western Shanghai Noon (Owen Wilson, Jackie Chang and Lucy Liu. Lucy plays a Chinese princess and Jackie her loyal if bumbling Imperial Guard. She, he and other Chinese characters speak in Mandarin, and among other items shown are an Imperial rescript and some gold cash coins, all in Chinese. But this was during the 1800s, hence the Ch'ing (Qing) Dynasty. Ch'ing coins and documents would be in both Chinese and Manchu. To be fair, over the course of their rule, the Manchus more or less Sinicized themselves, so by the late 1800s they would have spoken Chinese, but the documents continued to be in Manchu. The film also preached a certain egalitariansim that seemed out of character for a Manchu princess.

There was also some criticism of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to the effect that it revised history to make the message more amenable to Chinese Communist ideology.

Is China's government using popular entertainment as a tool in a psychological warfare campaign to legitimize Chinese imperial control, regional hegemony and (even if watered down from its Maoist roots) Communist ideology?

Razor
03-17-2006, 09:29
Lucy plays a Chinese princess and Jackie her loyal if bumbling Imperial Guard. She, he and other Chinese characters speak in Mandarin, and among other items shown are an Imperial rescript and some gold cash coins, all in Chinese. But this was during the 1800s, hence the Ch'ing (Qing) Dynasty. Ch'ing coins and documents would be in both Chinese and Manchu. To be fair, over the course of their rule, the Manchus more or less Sinicized themselves, so by the late 1800s they would have spoken Chinese, but the documents continued to be in Manchu. The film also preached a certain egalitariansim that seemed out of character for a Manchu princess.

You noticed that too, huh? Can you believe the director missed something as obvious as that? :p

vsvo
03-20-2006, 10:39
A week or so ago, I was surfing through a website on closed amusement parks in Florida (mainly looking for information on one I went to as a kid - Six-Gun Territory).... Florida's Lost Tourist Attractions (http://www.lostparks.com/index.html)

Cool link, thanks AL! Monkey Jungle, Parrot Jungle, Serpentarium, Alligator Farm, Lion Country Safari, Cypress Gardens are not on the list...my childhood is intact.

End of 1975, we were living in Miami, having been in the states for less than a year. My dad regularly piled us into an old, beat up VW with no A/C and took us to as many attractions in the colorful Florida brochure as possible. Just a bunch of poor, wide-eyed refugees gorging on Americana, Florida style. Driving through Lion Country Safari, no matter how hot it was, we all yelled from the backseat for my parents to keep the windows rolled up.

Airbornelawyer
03-20-2006, 14:49
Cool link, thanks AL! Monkey Jungle, Parrot Jungle, Serpentarium, Alligator Farm, Lion Country Safari, Cypress Gardens are not on the list...my childhood is intact.

End of 1975, we were living in Miami, having been in the states for less than a year. My dad regularly piled us into an old, beat up VW with no A/C and took us to as many attractions in the colorful Florida brochure as possible. Just a bunch of poor, wide-eyed refugees gorging on Americana, Florida style. Driving through Lion Country Safari, no matter how hot it was, we all yelled from the backseat for my parents to keep the windows rolled up.
My home town is about 15 minutes from Lion Country Safari. We went there on elementary school field trips a few times. It is still open, as is Gatorland Zoo near Kissimmee.

vsvo
03-20-2006, 15:06
My home town is about 15 minutes from Lion Country Safari. We went there on elementary school field trips a few times. It is still open, as is Gatorland Zoo near Kissimmee.
I just looked up their website, I didn't realize it was so close to West Palm Beach. I spent a couple of months in West Palm on a project with FP&L and didn't even know I was so close.

Is Gatorland Zoo the same as Alligator Farm (that's what my dad always called it)?

Slantwire
03-20-2006, 16:44
China still sees itself in the traditional role (The Emporer) in it's relations with Asia. It wants recognition and influence in the region.

No doubt. It's boosted even more since there's still some compensation for the "Sick Man of Asia" syndrome.

A somewhat weird tangent:
....
She, he and other Chinese characters speak in Mandarin, and among other items shown are an Imperial rescript and some gold cash coins, all in Chinese. But this was during the 1800s, hence the Ch'ing (Qing) Dynasty. Ch'ing coins and documents would be in both Chinese and Manchu. To be fair, over the course of their rule, the Manchus more or less Sinicized themselves, so by the late 1800s they would have spoken Chinese, but the documents continued to be in Manchu. The film also preached a certain egalitariansim that seemed out of character for a Manchu princess.

Shanghai Noon was an American movie. I figured the historical inaccuracies were merely par for Hollywood.

There was also some criticism of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon to the effect that it revised history to make the message more amenable to Chinese Communist ideology.

Is China's government using popular entertainment as a tool in a psychological warfare campaign to legitimize Chinese imperial control, regional hegemony and (even if watered down from its Maoist roots) Communist ideology?

An oppressive Communistic country using art as propaganda? Never! Well...

This was my big dissatisfaction with Hero, the Jet Li movie from a year or two ago. The ending sequence basically says that totalitarian rule is necessary to enforce peace.

Darn it, now I'll have to go back through my Chinese movie collection and watch them all through my propaganda filter. This may take a while, and I have rucking to do.

Solid
03-23-2006, 11:07
The story of Hero is a Chinese myth dating back long before Communism. The myth, however, was used to support the position of the Emperor. It would be logical to think that, much as Stalin used Eisenstein's films to favorably compare himself to famous Russian rulers, the Chinese- both Imperial and Communist- would use ancient mythology to justify their rule.

In fact, one could argue that pretty much all rulers do this, even in Democracies: political leaders regularly have themselves compared to previous beloved Presidents/Prime ministers.

Thus, yeah- China is using popular culture as a PSYOPS device to support rule of the centre... but its pretty much the same thing as what any country does, just in a context which most people on this board will view unfavorably (a totalitarian government).

JMO,

Solid

Slantwire
03-24-2006, 10:00
The story of Hero is a Chinese myth dating back long before Communism. The myth, however, was used to support the position of the Emperor.

The story of the Huangdi and the three assassins is indeed centuries old, but Hero is the only I've heard where the assassin recants in face of the "logic" of totalitarianism. The version I've always heard was that he chased the King of Qin around the throne room for a while, until the King remembered he was wearing a sword of his own and cut the guy down.

Another recent movie take on the story was The Emperor and the Assassin, which put another interesting spin on the story - that the attempt was set up by the king himself to as a propaganda event. His survival let him claim to have the blessing of heaven, and also gave him justification for attacking the kingdom of Yan and start consolidating "All Under Heaven."

Anyway, you're certainly right that the Chinese Communist Party is hardly the first government to use media / entertainment as a propaganda device. Battleship Potemkin comes to mind. But just because other governments do it, doesn't make it less objectionable here.