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Huey14
12-11-2005, 05:18
Morning guys,

Recently come into my possesion are a couple of rounds that I got from a mate to collect (I collect dummy rounds). The problem is, is that they're live.

Now, I've heard of "drilling" ammo to get the powder out, but I have no idea how to do it and I don't want to fiddle with them. I have a couple of other rounds in my company but it looks like the primer has been removed and the powder emptyed through the hole left.

I am loathe to keep the rounds live because a) it's an offence and b) safety.

If someone could give me some practical advice on what do here I would appreciate it. I've googled it and tried to take the round out with a set of pliers but no joy.

The rounds in question are a Norinco 7.62x39 and a 12 guage steel shot. Please excuse any inaccuracies in nonclementure.

Cheers.

H14.

Bob1984
12-11-2005, 08:25
Not sure what the laws are like in NZ regarding ammo. I collect ammo as well and in addition to shell casings and dummy rounds, I do have a couple live rounds here and there mixed in. Modern live ammo is pretty safe to keep around, it doesn't randomly go off or anything like that. Even if you throw it in a fire, all it does is cook off and it just makes a popping sound. Not enough pressure for the projectile to go anywhere. Need to be very careful with the drilling thing because you could set the primer off. 7.62x39 is Berdan-primed, so there is no easy way to remove the primer. The tool you want is called a bullet puller, here's a link: http://www.benchrest.com/hoodpress/bullet_puller.html For a shotgun shell, it depends on wether or not it's a star or rose-petal shaped crimp. The idea there is that you would use a knife or similar to undo the crimp, pour out the shot and powder, then close the crimp back up again. Messing with the primers is a bad idea because it would be easy to set them off by drilling them (or heaven forbid, hammering them out) and I have heard of people injuring themselves that way.

The Reaper
12-11-2005, 09:12
Do not drill the rounds. The hot brass shavings can ignite the powder.

Get a cheap impact type bullet puller, slap the projos out, dump the powder, and spray WD-40 inside the case directed at the primer. It will NORMALLY inert it. You can then drill the case, if desired or required by law, and reseat the bullet. There are Berdan primer pullers out there as well.

The shotgun shell will be a lost cause. Best bet is to find someone who reloads them and get him to load one with an expended primer and a dummy powder load.

Again, the definition of inert and legal are established by your local authorities and you have to comply with their desires.

HTH.

TR

Huey14
12-11-2005, 20:57
Thanks alot for the help guys. I wasn't keen on drilling the rounds because I was concerned they would go off, so that's confirmed it. I might dispose of these since I don't feel comfortable fiddling with them and it's technically illegal for me to have them since I don't have a licence.

Is burial a safe way to dispose?

The Reaper
12-11-2005, 21:23
Thanks alot for the help guys. I wasn't keen on drilling the rounds because I was concerned they would go off, so that's confirmed it. I might dispose of these since I don't feel comfortable fiddling with them and it's technically illegal for me to have them since I don't have a licence.

Is burial a safe way to dispose?

Not really.

Pull the bullets, dump or burn the powder in small quantities, spray the primer from inside the case with WD-40.

Cut the end off the shotgun shell, dump out the shot, pull the wad, dispose of the powder safely as directed above, spray the inside of the primer with WD-40, and bury or burn the hull. Be aware that if you do that, the brass shell head will remain in the ashes, if you are concerned about evidence.

I am sorry that you live in such a beautiful place and have to worry about something as trivial as owning two rounds of live ammo. I understand that the Nazis did a similar thing. Truly a pity.

TR

Huey14
12-11-2005, 21:33
Thanks for that TR.

It's not so much that the police care, it's that I'm applying for my licence soon and I don't want live rounds hanging around while they make their inspections. It might not look the best :p

The Reaper
12-11-2005, 22:14
Thanks for that TR.

It's not so much that the police care, it's that I'm applying for my licence soon and I don't want live rounds hanging around while they make their inspections. It might not look the best :p

If they search your house thoroughly enough to find two rounds, I hate to think what they would think here.:rolleyes:

Good luck to you anyway.:D

TR

Air.177
12-11-2005, 22:44
If they search your house thoroughly enough to find two rounds, I hate to think what they would think here.:rolleyes:

Good luck to you anyway.:D

TR


No kidding, I'd be completely hosed. I have more than two rounds worth of powder in my carpet at any given time.

Good luck Huey

Huey14
12-11-2005, 22:49
It's me being careless and leaving them out that worries me! :D

Our gun laws are pretty good, though.

Peregrino
12-12-2005, 12:55
It's me being careless and leaving them out that worries me! :D

Our gun laws are pretty good, though.

Sorry - The visual that accompanies that statement (and your entire dilemma) is one of two steers looking at each other as they enter the abatoir and commenting favorably about how "sanitary" it is. Especially after Australia's recent experiences. Peregrino

Huey14
12-12-2005, 21:13
I don't know how it is in the US but the licencing is taken very seriously here.

The Reaper
12-12-2005, 21:23
I don't know how it is in the US but the licencing is taken very seriously here.

In most states here, your license to own a firearm was written in 1789.

It is an inalienable right.

No offense intended, but hence the difference between citizen and subject.

"Licenses" are required for legal concealed carry in most states and for full-auto guns, suppressors, some short-barreled weapons, and destructive devices (since 1934).

The licensing for the above normally consists of a routine background check, an application with a payment, an official signature or two, and for concealed carry, some training.

TR

Huey14
12-12-2005, 21:55
None taken, of course.

To be honest, I don't understand the US system, especially with regards to the Constitution. I've had a look at it, but I don't understand, I think that comes down to quite differant attitudes. Whatever works, though, works.

And if NZ ever did what Australia did I would probably leave the country (and that would break my heart).

The Reaper
12-12-2005, 22:29
As I understand it, the framers of the Constitution, who had risked their lives in armed insurrection against the King, wanted to ensure that the People possessed the means to overthrow an oppressive government.

An armed citizenry and a small standing army was the best way to do that, hence the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights.

They felt that the government should answer to the people, not the other way around.

HTH.

TR

Huey14
12-12-2005, 22:53
That seems simple enough.

Does the government still answer to the people?

The Reaper
12-12-2005, 23:01
That seems simple enough.

Does the government still answer to the people?

Less and less with every law passed.

We need to erase them all and start over again with the Constitution as the base document.

They do seem to get a lot more responsive to the People around October-November of election years.

TR

APLP
12-12-2005, 23:17
I don't know how it is in the US but the licencing is taken very seriously here.

Sir Reaper, you are a better man than me, as the attitudes displayed by Heuy 14 really bother the hell out of me as a citizen of this great country who would have no hesitation to defend either this country or the second amendment with my life. It is my hope that I have raised my children to do the same.

Huey14
12-12-2005, 23:49
What attitude is this? I do hope you're not doubting my loyalty to my country.

Sacamuelas
12-13-2005, 00:12
Both of you guys are respected non-QP members here. Let's keep it professional and non-personal on both sides.

Huey14
12-13-2005, 00:25
No problem, boss.

Bill Harsey
12-13-2005, 08:55
That seems simple enough.

Does the government still answer to the people?
The government in the United States still answers to the people, just not very fast or with always the correct response.

When certain lines are crossed (or not) our system of government allows us to legally attempt to make the offending politicians or government agencies lives difficult until something changes or continue until the people think it's not worth the effort to make said difficulties anymore.

It's been a long and continuing battle against anti-private firearms ownership folks to keep the right to bear arms as we know it today.

Huey14
12-13-2005, 21:44
And it's a good battle and one that should be fought- Because it's in your founding document!

I'm starting to get it now. I've done a bit more reading on it. I'm also trying to convince my mate who's just moved to Colorado that he should CC...because he can ;). So far he's not convinced.

The Reaper
12-13-2005, 21:50
And it's a good battle and one that should be fought- Because it's in your founding document!

I'm starting to get it now. I've done a bit more reading on it. I'm also trying to convince my mate who's just moved to Colorado that he should CC...because he can ;). So far he's not convinced.

Huey:

I have now been carrying for 30 years.

The times I have needed it are few, but significant.

I suppose that I could drive around without a spare tire or get rid of the fire extinguisher in the kitchen as well, but I think I'll keep them.

Not looking for trouble, but it sure helps to have the tools when you need them.

Glad to see that you are doing some reading on this. I wish more Americans did.:(

TR

Bill Harsey
12-13-2005, 21:53
And it's a good battle and one that should be fought- Because it's in your founding document!

I'm starting to get it now. I've done a bit more reading on it. I'm also trying to convince my mate who's just moved to Colorado that he should CC...because he can ;). So far he's not convinced.
The thinking among some, myself included, is that the framers of our constitution understood human nature very well and wrote that document in a way that protected the common mans ability to challenge a governing authority

This is a profoundly simple statement but one that was never taught me in all the civics classes taught me by "government employees" in public schools.

JHB
12-15-2005, 18:11
If you decide to drill PLEASE let us know the outcome. Ask several friends (DRUNK) that is to be a great wittness.

Detcord
12-16-2005, 23:45
Just a little review of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. The Bill Of Rights is the first ten amendments of the U.S. Constitution. The most basic and essential freedoms Americans enjoy are contained in the Bill Of Rights. The Constitution comes as a package; it cannot be picked apart to suit one ideology, like when liberals try to ban firearm ownership.

The Second Amendment states: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Pretty simple, not very hard to understand either.

The 2nd Amendment means that a free state (the entire U.S.) is not always a constant. Whether from foreign invaders or internal tyranny, arms, specifically "firearms," are the primary means of ensuring that America remains America; that U.S. citizens remain exactly that - not "subjects."

America's past was forged with firearms and it's future will require them as well.

Given that people phrased words a little differently 200+ years ago, some people think today the 2nd amendment is somehow "invalid" or "outdated." Nothing could be further from the truth.

What the 2nd Amendment means is that you and your next-door neighbor who own guns are going to form the "militia" if that becomes necessary. The militia will use their firearms proactively to defeat whatever force is threatening the American way of life.

American Heritage Dictionary defines militia as: An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers. Yep, that means you and your neighbor!!!

Long live the 2nd Amendment!!!

The sound of cycling actions and spent brass hitting the ground is the sound of freedom!!! :)

It might sound cliché, but God, Guns, and Guts not only made, but continue to make, America Great!!!

Got ammo???
:lifter

18Z
06-21-2010, 13:52
That seems simple enough.

Does the government still answer to the people?

LOL....actually that depends on the question you ask now days.

ktek01
06-21-2010, 17:44
That seems simple enough.

Does the government still answer to the people?


You would think, but depends on who you ask and what their agenda is. People will argue forever that almost everything related to speech is protected by the First Amendment, yet turn around and argue that almost nothing is protected by the Second. Somehow the entire Constitution and all amendments give all the rights to the people, except for the Second. :rolleyes:

Odd Job
06-30-2010, 15:15
Huey

Of the two cartridges the shotgun cartridge is the easiest to make safe if you don't mind cutting the hull. Here are some that I prepared in SA and which passed inspection at UK customs for an individual (who at the time) had no shotgun certificate:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/ShotgunCartridges8.jpg

The thing is to get a Stanley knife with the blade slid out a few mm only, and then make two parallel cuts forward of the shotcups/pistons so that you can then prise the hull open and dump the contents.
You can either then oil the primers or discharge the primers in a shotgun. Before replacing the cartridge contents (minus powder) you can extend the hull cuts down to the brass if you want to show off all the innards.

The brass cartridge is more difficult. Although they don't advocate discussion of drilling and sectioning live rounds on their forum, you might look into sending a PM to some of the members of the IAA forum and explaining what you want to do. Here is the link:

http://iaaforum.org/forum3/

I have rendered quite a few cartridges safe (sacrificing the case to preserve the projectile) by using a hacksaw. This was in cases where the cartridge either didn't fit in my kinetic puller or the type of crimp made it impossible to pull with a kinetic puller. Not saying you should go straight to the saw, but if you do and you go really slowly you can get a breach in the case and flood the contents.

As regards comments about citizens vs subjects, I would urge my US friends not to be too complacent because having the luxury of not being branded a subject by somebody across the pond is no guarantee that you retain your rights as you so optimistically and vehemently anticipate to do.

Whilst your Constitution is right and proper and respected on paper it guarantees you nothing unless the majority of the populace and incumbents allow it. It is very easy to control something by restrictions, even if you don't attack the letter and instent of your Constitution.

A perfect example of this is the state of California and the city of Chicago. From what I understand a fella can't just own whatever firearms he wants in those places, whilst his brother in another place in the US enjoys different freedoms.
Ask yourself how that came about and where it can go further. If laws are passed saying you can have a single shot bolt action .22 rifle only, that still grants you your second ammendment rights but you'll have a restriction on a freedom you have previously enjoyed.

It might be a bitter truth but your Constitution guarantees you nothing. Same as my firearms in South Africa. I got them licensed and that was it...I thought. Along comes a new government and asks for relicensing. Not banning, just relicensing.
It doesn't say it on the tin, but this process can take quite long. Maybe you don't have exactly the right safe at home, maybe the firearm suddenly is subject to a magazine restriction. Happened in South Africa, the UK and dare I say it even in the land of the free (tm).

Now it might seem ridiculous to you that Huey is worried about legal issues if he is found with two live cartridges in his possession. In fact objectively this IS ridiculous. It is ridiculous in NZ, it is ridiculous in SA and ridiculous in the UK and half a dozen other places.
What I am telling you is the cloud of ridiculous actions and douchebaggery is not barred from the US.
It will take more than the Constitution to protect you from that so please observe what has happened in other countries and don't be complacent.

The Reaper
06-30-2010, 17:40
It will take more than the Constitution to protect you from that so please observe what has happened in other countries and don't be complacent.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth." George Washington

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" (Patrick Henry, 3 J. Elliot, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836)

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants" (Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939)

"The tank, the B-52, the fighter-bomber, the state-controlled police and military are the weapons of dictatorship. The rifle is the weapon of democracy. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military. The hired servants of our rulers. Only the government-and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws." (Edward Abbey, "The Right to Arms," Abbey's Road [New York, 1979])

OJ:

What do those quotes mean to you?

We are certainly aware of the threat Congress, state and local governments and their laws, as well as the decisions of judges and bureaucrats pose to our freedom.

The efforts of many on this board to preserve our rights is greatly appreciated.

On this weekend and holiday above all, let us remember where the guns that freed this nation came from, and rededicate our efforts to preserving all of our liberties.

God Bless America.

TR

Odd Job
07-01-2010, 02:58
OJ:

What do those quotes mean to you?

They mean a great deal to me, as all the remaining family (of any standing) I have left in the world are now in the US and are US citizens. I visit every year and get my semi-auto centerfire fix.

What is of more concern (and what I am getting at) isn't what those quotes mean to you or me, but what they mean to the rest of the populace.
I fear we are the minority.