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Air.177
03-10-2004, 19:52
I know that this cartridge is hardly the last word in effectiveness, but does anyone know of any loading in this cartridge that has better antipersonnel properties than the commonly available ball or softpoint? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

The Reaper
03-10-2004, 19:54
Originally posted by Air.177
I know that this cartridge is hardly the last word in effectiveness, but does anyone know of any loading in this cartridge that has better antipersonnel properties than the commonly available ball or softpoint? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

No.

longrange1947
03-11-2004, 19:02
Yes, but they are generally outlawed by decent men and the Geneva Hague. :D

Team Sergeant
03-11-2004, 19:47
Originally posted by Air.177
I know that this cartridge is hardly the last word in effectiveness, but does anyone know of any loading in this cartridge that has better antipersonnel properties than the commonly available ball or softpoint? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Why? Unless you can use it with a high degree of expertise and have no other weapon choices why would you want to use it as a weapon of last resort?

Team Sergeant

Air.177
03-12-2004, 11:20
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Why? Unless you can use it with a high degree of expertise and have no other weapon choices why would you want to use it as a weapon of last resort?

Team Sergeant

Despite working in a gun store, AR type weapons are still out of budget right now. I may build or buy one in the future, but it just ain't in the cards right now. I would prefer an FN-FAL, but they are even further out of reach at this time. As for experise, I get along alright with the carbine. Also, with the A1 paratroooper stock, it makes a great car gun.

Longrange-As for the Geneva-Hague, I am but a lowly civilian. And as for being decent, well always cheat always win you know.

Team Sergeant
03-12-2004, 11:29
Originally posted by Air.177
Despite working in a gun store, AR type weapons are still out of budget right now.

OK, how about a carbine in .223 cal such as the mini 14? (They're not in the AR price range....)

Team Sergeant

Air.177
03-12-2004, 14:03
I have shot several of them in the past, and was not impressed at all, not to mention, lack of functional hi cap magazines.

The Reaper
03-12-2004, 17:44
Air .177:

I think if you look at the overall cost of ownership, and can wait till this fall when the AWB hopefully sunsets, you will find that the AR-15 can be had for $600 or so, mags for $5-$10 each, and quality US made mil-spec ammo for $175/M. A good carbine is going to run $300 or more, mags will cost more, as will ammo.

The carbine is a collectors item, and is not a serious modern rifle. Mags for it can also be expensive, the 30s for it are unreliable, and ammo is more expensive than the 5.56. The folding stocks are expensive as well.

The .30 Carbine round weighs significantly more than the 5.56, has much less effective range, and is greatly less effective terminally.

The AR will also give you the options of changing uppers from M-4 to 24" target length when you get the wherewithall.

Save your money till you can get the real deal. Or just tell your Dad that an M-4 from Rock River, Armalite, or Bushmaster would make a great birthday gift.

HTH.

TR

Air.177
03-12-2004, 18:12
TR- Understood Sir and duly noted. I do intend to get an AR eventually, but I already have the carbine and folding stock and a large supply of ball ammo for about $75 per thousand. Also, just to be the only one on the block with one, I am in the process of upgrading a carbine with what parts I can scrounge from around here. I am modifying the less collectable parts to do what I need, and selling the collectable parts for more project money. When I am finished, I will post the pics here for all to see. The Rifle that I have is not a collectable example,and as such is being used to do everything I need a rifle for. I am not taking this weapon to war, but it does make a handy little car gun, and I can shoot it in the three gun matches around here. Also, I am using this rifle as an excuse to pick up accessories that I will be able to use on future weapons as well.(like optics)

GackMan
03-14-2004, 08:33
I say build your own ar to save money.

You can buy the parts in bite sized pieces as your financial situation permits.

Plus, it is a great hobby and a great way to learn more about your rifle than you really want to know.

you should have everything you need, tool-wise, working in a gun store.

Just a thought.