View Full Version : Axes
Bill Harsey
09-21-2005, 04:05
Anyone use axes for tactical or emergency services function?
By axe, I certainly include hatchet or tomahawk.
By tactical, I mean as a tool carried for any use while "at work" in theater.
Spartan359
09-21-2005, 11:06
Anyone use axes for tactical or emergency services function?
By axe, I certainly include hatchet or tomahawk.
By tactical, I mean as a tool carried for any use while "at work" in theater.
Does firefighting count? Used one all the time on my ship. Just the good ol' wooden flat head axe. We used them to break through hatches and false bulk heads. I also used a Halligan tool for prying.
Bill Harsey
09-21-2005, 11:19
Yes firefighting counts.
I would like to know about all the types of axes carried. Military guys might have to fight fire too or be able to use that tool if that's all there is.
Bravo1-3
09-21-2005, 22:46
I sent 3 Cold Steel Tomahawks to friends in the sandbox last year. I e-mailed the people who had them and asked them to give me their opinions and experiences for you. At least one of them is at sea, but I should hear back from the other two soon.
Spartan359
09-21-2005, 23:03
Yes firefighting counts.
I would like to know about all the types of axes carried. Military guys might have to fight fire too or be able to use that tool if that's all there is.
Sir I was in the military. There was only one type on my ship. Just the flat head axe. Now hatchets were of personal choice.
Bill Harsey
09-22-2005, 07:10
I sent 3 Cold Steel Tomahawks to friends in the sandbox last year. I e-mailed the people who had them and asked them to give me their opinions and experiences for you. At least one of them is at sea, but I should hear back from the other two soon.
Thank you.
Bill Harsey
09-22-2005, 07:14
Sir I was in the military. There was only one type on my ship. Just the flat head axe. Now hatchets were of personal choice.
Thanks, I knew that. My thinking when I wrote that was to include any firefighting axe in the topic.
Lack of clarity on my part. This will happen again.
Bill Harsey
09-24-2005, 05:22
looks like I'm gonna have to start designing thigh holsters for axes to get anyone over here...
The Reaper
09-24-2005, 08:31
Bill:
I think that I have already given you my views.
There are multiple options, from a tomahawk, to a hatchet, a crash axe, a roofing hammer, a camp axe, etc.
I would like to hear from guys who have been in the box and possibly used 'hawks or axes in their daily activities.
TR
Bill Harsey
09-24-2005, 08:53
Bill:
I think that I have already given you my views.
There are multiple options, from a tomahawk, to a hatchet, a crash axe, a roofing hammer, a camp axe, etc.
I would like to hear from guys who have been in the box and possibly used 'hawks or axes in their daily activities.
TR
TR,
Thanks, Yes you have and that is what prompted the thread here.
I also would like to hear what the guys have to say if they choose.
Bravo1-3
09-26-2005, 12:30
Kevin tells me that he used it quite a bit in Fallujah last year. The spike on the back of the Tomahawk apparently fits very well into the wire loops on ammo crates. I'd imagine that a lot of guys on this board have spent a lot of time opening those, and know how your hands feel after opening a large number of them by hand. I'm sure he felt it was the greatest invention since sliced bread after that.
It was also used for breaking windows, cutting pieces of comm wire that insurgents had run between buildings, and setting up an antenna (he did not elaborate, but I'm going to assume he used the side of it as a hammer).
He also said it scared the crap out of prisoners seeing it on his hip. :lifter
Bill Harsey
09-26-2005, 12:45
Kevin tells me that he used it quite a bit in Fallujah last year. The spike on the back of the Tomahawk apparently fits very well into the wire loops on ammo crates. I'd imagine that a lot of guys on this board have spent a lot of time opening those, and know how your hands feel after opening a large number of them by hand. I'm sure he felt it was the greatest invention since sliced bread after that.
It was also used for breaking windows, cutting pieces of comm wire that insurgents had run between buildings, and setting up an antenna (he did not elaborate, but I'm going to assume he used the side of it as a hammer).
He also said it scared the crap out of prisoners seeing it on his hip. :lifter
This helps, a lot.
Thank you.
Anyone else?
He also said it scared the crap out of prisoners seeing it on his hip. :lifter
heh... cool.
my buddy was in Africa and said that they could point their guns at people and they didn't care since they knew that the americans couldn't shoot them. Then they got some old school bill clubs from somewhere. Everyone got issued a stick... all bets were off. I guess the people were pretty sure the .mil dudes could dispense an ass-kicking without much paperwork and they didn't have trouble getting people out of the way after that.
Wonder where a smatchet... errr, hatchet would fit in there.
Team Sergeant
09-27-2005, 09:14
I’m sorta partial to this one, but then again it could be my Norwegian heritage….
Bill Harsey
09-27-2005, 09:23
TS,
The Vikings where/are still very good wood workers.
One of the traditions of shipbuilding before saw mills is the use of hewing axes to make timbers (round logs into squared and flat sided beams). If a culture masters making and using the big wood working axes, it's not a big step to use axes in battle.
miller0331
10-06-2005, 10:29
You know... On active duty I never really used a hatchet/axe/tomahawk but I did have a Cold Steel shovel. Now that was a handy tool! Sharpen the edge and you had a great hatchet not to mention having a wood handle made digging a lot easier than the issue E tool. No ammo crate stood a chance and man! It really could pry a fire door off of its hinges. Also, I never really noticed the additional weight after a while.
I still have it and carry it all the time when hunting. It's dug me out of more than one mud hole, chopped down its share of trees, dug snow caves, punched holes in ice and split lots of firewood. It's a little battered but I think it'll last me the rest of my life.
I think back to "All Quiet on the Western Front" when the old Sergeant is advising the fresh meat about trench fighting and tells them about "sharpening the edge of their shovels... Now that! (taking a swing) Will split a man in two...".
Anyway, my two cents worth...
VelociMorte
10-06-2005, 12:25
I carry a Gerber hatchet in my ruck. I'd carry on my LBE but the holder that came with it sucks. Haven't used it for much except cutting brush.
I am a big fan of the Vietnam style hawks and recently purchased the ATC CQC-T (http://www.americantomahawk.com/index.htm) designed by Emerson. I did not have any during my last deployment and am stuck in a staff job at the moment so I cannot comment on field use. I do plan to take the CQC-T or the VTAC with me in the future.
Surgicalcric
10-06-2005, 15:04
Anyone use axes for tactical or emergency services function?
By axe, I certainly include hatchet or tomahawk.
Mr Harsey:
Here is a pic of the truckman's axe I use at my other job. The one I have been away from too long. lol. The pic is not the one I use (mine is beat all to hell...). Its only about 24" long.
Crip
TIN FOIL K-POT
10-06-2005, 22:32
I have a Cold Steel Viking axe.. I chose it for the wide blade to diliver a good blow when i wack something w/ it. It comes in handy for clearing the ground. chopping small trees to build a shelter, splitting fire wood, butchering game, prying nails and i feel pretty safe knowing i have by my side at night when im alone out in the bush miles from no wheres. I can use the otherside of the head as a hammer if need be w/o being worried it will crack or break. It has a 19 inch hickory handle that gives plenty of length for a decent swing.
Only thing i dont like is that i thought Cold Steel was made in the USA..it says made in Tywon on it so i question is duability in the long run.
Mark
Bill Harsey
10-07-2005, 08:22
Mr Harsey:
Here is a pic of the truckman's axe I use at my other job. The one I have been away from too long. lol. The pic is not the one I use (mine is beat all to hell...). Its only about 24" long.
Crip
I haven't seen that pattern of axe before. What does it do?
Surgicalcric
10-07-2005, 11:45
I haven't seen that pattern of axe before. What does it do?
Well Sir, its designed to be short enough but heavy enough for most forceful entry applications. The claw on the back I use mostly as a claw to pull with and also the inside is sharpened so it can be used to cut vehicle roofs, doors, etc like a can opener. It doesnt work as well, but it being short and lighter than a pick axe makes it nice for the ones of us doing Rescue work.
Hope that made the muddy water somewhat clearer...
Below is another tool we use that bares some similarity to a hatchet/axe; a Beil Tool. It is also used for forcible entry, metal cutting (note claw on end) prying, etc. This is a personal carry tool, usually on a tool belt, thats about 15" long when closed, but extends to 19" open and weighs in around 3 lbs.
Crip
The Reaper
10-07-2005, 15:13
I am a big fan of the Vietnam style hawks and recently purchased the ATC CQC-T (http://www.americantomahawk.com/index.htm) designed by Emerson. I did not have any during my last deployment and am stuck in a staff job at the moment so I cannot comment on field use. I do plan to take the CQC-T or the VTAC with me in the future.
Very nice design by Ernie, but doesn't see to be a very effective or flexible tool.
Single purpose weapon.
Anyone care to comment on whether they would prefer another weapon to carry, or a tool that could be used as a weapon, if need be?
TR
Anyone care to comment on whether they would prefer another weapon to carry, or a tool that could be used as a weapon, if need be?
TR
I prefer less. I think a knife is one of the best all around tools that also can be a good weapon. Thinking in terms of a team, maybe one member carrying a axe would be fine. I like pistols but would prefer more ammo for my rifle. I had to walk mostly for a living (0311) so that is where my bias comes from. If I had a nice vehicle to ride in, then what the heck, a little more of other things would be fine.
The only other item I felt I need to carry was a spoon.
Bill do you have a website, that you can PM me, or post in open?
TY
The Reaper
10-07-2005, 15:50
True, but look at it as another tool for the kit bag, to be carried or not, based on the mission.
A knife will only get you so far.
An axe may be used for many tasks, some a knife may be able to do, but not as well. An axe optimized for fighting may be a poor working axe, and vice versa. Some designs are more flexible than others.
Off the top of my head, an axe could be used for:
Chopping
Hammering
Splitting
Firewood prep
Construction
Clearing
Digging
Game prep
Breaching
Opening crates, boxes, etc.
Prying
Combat
Throwing
I am sure that others will have additional uses.
TR
Trick question, TR?
The answer is obviously a Harsey Reaper! ;) (Although it may be slight overkill for dressing game.)
jasonglh
10-07-2005, 18:26
Actually I use a small hatchet for dressing my deer. Mainly for lopping off the lower legs and hacking the pelvis in half. A chainsaw can really speed things up though.
The Reaper
10-07-2005, 19:59
Here are a few small axe designs, from back when axes were the primary tool of the home, and there were many different types for distinct purposes (and any blacksmith could make one of his own design). These are general purpose outdoor survival and fighting tools.
Today, there a far fewer types made, most are probably optimized for ease of production.
I guess that the bottom line is to decide what you want to do with the tool before you get too attached to a particular look.
What would you guys (especially QPs) want to be able to do with an axe, if one was part of your kit?
TR
Bill Harsey
10-07-2005, 20:25
Reaper,
That axe ('hawk really, based on how the handle keeps the head on) in the middle really appeals to me for an all around tool. It's exactly all that's needed to work, no more and no less.
The "old ones" had this stuff figured out.
True, but look at it as another tool for the kit bag, to be carried or not, based on the mission.
(middle left out)
I am sure that others will have additional uses.
TR
Yes, "based on mission", I think is the key phrase.
As for additional uses, this might be a little more than Bill was thinking about. I do have a collection of axes, Ice Axes (le Piolets) for mountaineering. They are essential for surviving in the alpine environment. My oldest was made prior 1900 and the adze is like a regular axe. Later the adze was rotated 90 degrees to aid in cutting steps in snow and ice. A variation to the Ice axe is the North Wall Hammer. It has a hammer head rather than the adze.
As with most rural Oregonians I have a mall (SP?) for splitting wood and a axe and roofing hatchet.
Bill Harsey
10-10-2005, 08:48
Yes, "based on mission", I think is the key phrase.
As for additional uses, this might be a little more than Bill was thinking about. I do have a collection of axes, Ice Axes (le Piolets) for mountaineering. They are essential for surviving in the alpine environment. My oldest was made prior 1900 and the adze is like a regular axe. Later the adze was rotated 90 degrees to aid in cutting steps in snow and ice. A variation to the Ice axe is the North Wall Hammer. It has a hammer head rather than the adze.
As with most rural Oregonians I have a mall (SP?) for splitting wood and a axe and roofing hatchet.
It's safe to say there are no ice axes in my shop. I have been looking at them in the stores because of the light weight construction and pondering if that type of construction could be adapted to a "high tec" light tomahawk.
Here are some pictures of various TACTICAL hawks that I've collected over the years I can post pictures of more traditional hawks if you want, also.
and a few more...a lot won't post until I resize them down to 800 X 800 will post them later
Peregrino
12-05-2005, 17:14
Yes, "based on mission", I think is the key phrase.
As with most rural Oregonians I have a mall (SP?) for splitting wood and a axe and roofing hatchet.
Maul. Though it usually refers to a specialized wooden (sledge)hammer of the type used to drive circus tent stakes or splitting wedges. The splitting maul is a bastardized tool not much seen in today's urbanized milieu. (Got one myself - it beats, literally, splitting logs with an axe.) JFTFOI :p - Peregrino
some TRADITIONAL style hawks by modern makers, working models to museum quality...prices range from $25 for Cold Steel to as much as $10,000 for some of the super custom jobs...expensive hobby but someone has to do it.
Brother Rat
12-05-2005, 19:34
I'm sort of surprised you don't have one of the Strider hatchets (Bad Axe.)
SeekHer, those are some handsome traditional hawks. :cool:
a few others...still converting to smaller picture size
Michelle
12-06-2005, 09:49
Strider's new one.
m1
Strider's new one.
m1
I Got to play with one of those at the DPMS tri gun match in August. One of the vendors there (Blue Line gear, Blue Force Gear, Blue Something gear) had one as well as a pile of cinder blocks to demonstrate it with. Very cool tool, Completely lacks subtlety, but very cool none-the-less.
I was able to get some short handled mauls in Iraq for use in my armored vehicles.
We velcroed them to the transmission humps within easy reach of everyone.
They were intended (and used on two occasions) to break OUT of an overturned armored vehicle.
They were great for smashing the ballistic glass out of windows to extract personnel.
Additionally, the axe edge was good for chopping at the metal frames of doors/windows, etc.
Handy implements.
Sorry I have no pictures, but the heads were similar in size and shape to the splitting mauls available here in the US, but with a short handle.
3 tactical & 2 traditional