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BMT (RIP)
09-12-2005, 18:57
Ambush Maters comment about night movement. I don't think this has been discussed nearly enough.

1. Working in double and triple canopy jungle.
2. Lack of any light source.
3. Sounds and odors.

I know I've just scratched the surface. Jump in the deep end of the pool and have at it.

BMT

QRQ 30
09-12-2005, 19:19
I'm afraid we are a little outdated here. I can only dream of what it would have been like with today's NVDs.

Double and triple canopy lends protection from overhead detection. Working under it is like working in a huge warehouse since there is little if any undergrowth. These were favorite hiding places for the NVA while moving down the trail. OTOH the terrain around the edges of such jungle was extremely dense and HOT!!

Noise and light are self explanitory. Anything out of the ordinary can draw attention.

Grabing bushes and limbs for handholds is like sending up a flare.

I smoked "Yard" tobacco.

My .05 cents. :lifter

HOLLiS
09-12-2005, 21:05
I smoked "Yard" tobacco.

My .05 cents. :lifter

And probably ate "Yard" food. Smell should not be ignored

Ambush Master
09-12-2005, 21:16
And probably ate "Yard" food. Smell should not be ignored

In fact we did eat "Indig" rations before a mission and during it. I like nuoc mam to this day. It would definitely make you "fit right in" in the smell department. The "Indig Rations" that we had were authentic/different to say the least. Ben Baker really provided the stuff that we needed !!

Later
Martin

HOLLiS
09-12-2005, 21:38
. I like nuoc mam to this day.

I have a bottle in my kitchen, I like it on beef. A place I like to eat is Pho Su mo in Salem Oregon, (Number one Soup) good stuff. Plus a a little Ba Ma Ba Beer (33 Beer).

H.

Gerbermk2
05-22-2007, 17:59
I think the trick to moving at night is to move very slowly, I ve moved at night a few times in thick manzanita, mostly on knees the whole time, manzanita is tough because its got those branches that catch on everything. I my mind every sound I made sounded loud as can be but I am sure that wasnt the case. After a couple of hours my movements got very smooth. Probably my body and mind becoming adjusted to moving that slow.

The Reaper
05-22-2007, 19:23
Holy necropost, Batman!

This was primarily a discussion among QPs about tactical movement at night.

Until you have spent several years of your life moving around in the woods while people hunt you or you hunt them, you are probably in over your head commenting here.

I don't think there was a request made for amateur opinions.

TR

Pete
05-22-2007, 19:50
There was life before NODs, life with limited NODs, now life with "we got NODs" and soon to come life with "Everybody got NODs". Have done the first three but not the last.

NODs have their advantages, but also their disadvantages. In closed, I repeat closed, terrain while moving at night, even with NODs you are at the disadvantage over an alert enemy. IR helps but you still have to know how far out you can detect and how far your sound carries. Sound carries a lot farther than most people think.

It is far harder to move slow than it is to move fast. Poorly trained troops tend to pickup the pace and as a side product the noise level picks up. Sling keeper hits the hand guard - only an M-16 series makes that sound. Stiff branch on a nylon ruck? Halt - Thump, Thump, Thump and ruck heavy bodies hit the ground.

For you younger guys, the night has sounds, can you blend in - fade into the background or do you stick out. To find out you need to get in the woods with other people. I think the average American finds it hard to just sit still and be quite for an hour or so.

There is a bunch of old threads with similar tips and such floating around in here. All you new guys dig up all that SA stuff.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-22-2007, 21:00
Different terrain, different environments, different wx conditions, different threats, different loads, different equipment, force mix/training/condition and experience, time allotted, and mission all dictate different and unique requirements.

Ambush Master
05-22-2007, 21:28
Origin of this topic:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94199&highlight=night#post94199

Gerbermk2
05-23-2007, 14:31
My bad reaper, still getting to know the community here, didnt know about the QP thing. I have never been hunted by man at night, god only knows what thats like, but over the past 4 years I have had to move at night alot and I was just saying manzanita was the worst to move through in my opinion. I wasnt hunting anybody, but I did need to be quiet.

RT AXE 10
09-23-2008, 09:19
Working at night, adapt to the terrain, one must change the comon tactics. The use of NVG's gives us the ability to see at night, but with some limitations. Some limitations are still better than no sight at night. To make up for the limitations we should change our manuever and movement formations. Remembering NVG;s allow a limited field of vision. How much of an area must we cover to the front, flanks and rear ?. Augmenting the NVG's we may use Infrared lights and Thermal Imagers. Infrared lights can light up areas where low to no ambient light exsist. Thermal Sights can help detect most heat sources including the body heat of the enemy which greatly helps in finding the bad guys before he finds you. After that a good silent shot should clear your way to and from the objective. Remember, the enemy may have NVG's to use against you