Questions on Rucking with regards to the sticky

[GnP]

I have a few rucking questions for you guys. Since I am gearing my training to meet the SFAS standards, this seems to be the right place to ask. If not, I apologize. I have read all I can find and there some clarifications I need. I did my first hike today, and I did 10 miles cross country@ 60 pounds in 3 hours and 2 minutes. It’s a start.

1. In the rucking advice sticky, you mention using an ALICE pack. I used a p.o.s. from the army surplus called a “European Ruck Sack”. I don’t know wtf the difference is, but this thing is terrible. Should I buy an ALICE pack off ebay or just deal with the pain from this cheap one?

2. I ended up with massive blisters as I fully expected. In the sticky you mention powdering and changing socks every at a set interval based on the pace and the length of the ruck, etc. What powder do you use, and what do you do about open blisters?

3. For training purposes I just wrapped a towel around some Olympic weights and threw them in the ruck. Is there a better weight to use (like sandbags) or better way to pack? I read somewhere that you want the heaviest objects in the middle.



Thanks in advance.

[GnP]

Ok, the "show posts from the last month" being the default just owned me. I set it back farther and I am finding the answers I need. Mods delete this if you want.


I think we'll just leave it here to sho others that follow that you actually can find the answers to most questions here just by looking. Kyo

[longtab]

Blisters... You may want to not bite off 10 miles cross country at first. Personally I would break in the boots first... & jungle boots at that. Soak them in the tub over night, put them on and walk them dry. I went to SFAS with Wellco jungle boots, heck I did the Q-course and went to Iraq with Wellco's. Also, Bootmasters in Fayetteville can take a pair of brand new boots and turn them into road marchers in one day. They pull the toe and heel cups out, pull out the shank, resole them, cut the top down and trim the tounge... very very good mods. I wear these boots when I wear leather boots (which isn't often) but I still swear by them. Anyway, blisters are something you deal with when you get them, but stop before you get them! I didn't bother training for SFAS because I knew I could ruck the standard. But I got the biggest blister of my life walking from the Palimino (a bar) to my crappy hotel on 301 (In Fayetteville) in Justin workboots (which were NOT made for walking). I popped the blister, did the "needle and thread" trick, elevated my feet and signed into SFAS at the SOAF 12 hours later. The skin healed overnight and held all the way through SFAS. So don't get blister when you're training, prevent them... and if you do get one (some) treat them properly. Selection was easy... when you show up to the team is when you have to really perform.

Rucks... Ditch the Euro ruck and buy a ALICE frame and large ruck... it is what you'll use in SFAS and the rest of your career. Know the equipment, take care of it and you're way ahead of the game. SFAS cadre actually have a ruck assembly class.

Foot powder... it's on you. I'm a Gold Bond guy myself. In SFAS you'll see guys who have been there 3 or 4 times before (and didn't get selected... hmmm) and swear by a certain powder, cornstarch, or whatever. Just do your best everytime even when no one is looking and you'll be fine.

Ruck weights... again it's on you. 60 pounds of iron ore or 60 lbs of feathers... weight is wieght. I always put heavier items towards the upper part of the ruck right up against the body, cuz it makes sense.

My dad was a Baptist preacher so I tend to be long winded like him, but hey. There's my 2¢.

[phily357]

Here is just a few ideas that i have come up with.
-Get the Fox River Trecking Socks.
-Spray your feet with Arid XX and soak them in rubbing alchohol every night.
-Shaving cream on new boots, let it dry, wash it off with hot water, let them dry then a hearty helping of mink oil and wear them around w/o a ruck for a few days.
-Go to Home Depot, get a 50lb sand bag and let a little bit out so you are just over 45lbs. Wrap that sucker up with 100mph tape and put it in your ruck with a blanket under it to get the sand bag higher in your ruck.
-Also wear an LBE, it makes a big difference.
-Start out with four miles. Swing your arms like mad. Stride out hard on the flat ground. Shorten your steps and lean forward on up hills and run the downhills. Don't let yourself go anyslower than 15min. miles. The next week bump up to 5 and the week after bump up to six. If you are waiting to go to OSUT you really don't need to go that crazy. It is just a good experience to have prior to shipping. If not do WM's workout in his book. I did it while at Airborne and really liked it. Those socks should and the other foot care tips should take care of the blister problem for you. That is what I've been doing and knock on wood have yet to get a blister. Also seach the site there is more info here on rucking than you could ever get anywhere else.

[The Reaper]

I prefer the Ingenius socks and find them more durable, but that is a matter of preference.

The Arid is okay, not sure I would use alcohol on my feet every night. Epsom salts will work.

Skip the shaving cream and just use the saddle soap.

I would also carry a heavy stick about the same length as the M-4 to get you accustomed to having one in your hands all of the time, and to get used to keeping up with it. It will also change the way you swing your arms.

Good advice otherwise.

TR

[adidasink]

Know the search function, own the search function......

I have been searching for info....and I am preparing myself as well (trying as a REP 63 candidate), and I am just trying to step up my conditioning. I have my Get Selected book and have been reading some well executed posts regarding training and conditioning (Thanks TR & all the other QP's).

I went to the Wellco website to pick up a pair of jungle boots. My dilema is this: which pair would be accepted at SFAS if I were to purchase some now, wear them, break them in, beat them up? There were so many choices and I a just want to make sure I am getting exactly what I need (I hate to do things twice)! Also in regards to ALICE packs, where is the best place to pick one up (Ebay I am thinking) and what specifically will I need (the Civilian in me is showing!).

I appreciate all your posts on training, conditioning, and preparing.

I return to lurking and/or commenting on Nascar related things!

And if I am asking questions that I am sure have been covered I shall PT myself until I bleed for punishment.

-John

[FearMonkey]

Here is the pair of Wellco's that I swear by.
http://www.wellco.com/html/cmcb03.html

They're just your basic no-frills black jungle boot. I like them because they're lightweight, comfortable, and cheap while maintaining good quality. However, to make them worth your while you'll need to modify them a bit. Here's what I did:

Insoles:
http://www.wellco.com/html/cmcb03.html

Soles:
http://www.vibramrepair.com/en/prodotti.php?fp=7&paginaBarra=5
(The "ACQUAGUM UOMO/MAN" at the bottom of the page)
- Believe it or not these soles really are great for comfort. They're super spongy which is awesome for ruck runs (and the airborne school "airborne shuffle"). The only downfall is they're not built to last so they wear out FAST. Mine usually only last me for a school or two.

or

http://www.vibramrepair.com/en/prodotti.php?fp=4&paginaBarra=7
(The "MONTAGNA BLOCK" at the top of the page)
- These are a lot more durable and good for rucking the sand and tromping through the woods. They're not as light as the other pair but still relatively lightweight.

----
Now that, IMHO, is a great pair of boots that will be accepted at every school you'll run into while in the Q. The last little bit of info I could give would be to highly suggest you don't buy them off the internet. If at all possible, go to a store that sells them and get some actual hands on time with the boot because what you're really looking for is that perfect fit.

[Warrior-Mentor]

I have read all I can find and there some clarifications I need. I did my first hike today, and I did 10 miles cross country@ 60 pounds in 3 hours and 2 minutes. It’s a start.

Times cross country can vary greatly depending on terrain. 12 miles in 3 hours is a great standard to shoot for if you're on generally even terrain with little to no vegetation to fight (eg. roads/trails). When I was rucking in prep for SFAS, Pine Mountain had an 8 mile route that would take my friend (who was already SF Qualified at the time)and I right at 3 hours....and that was pushing it. 10 miles is a lot for first day out...recommend building slowy instead of wrecking yourself first time out and not wanting to go back again.

TRAINING = WORKOUT + REST

1. In the rucking advice sticky, you mention using an ALICE pack. I used a p.o.s. from the army surplus called a “European Ruck Sack”. I don’t know wtf the difference is, but this thing is terrible. Should I buy an ALICE pack off ebay or just deal with the pain from this cheap one?

Spend the money to train with what you'll use for real.

2. I ended up with massive blisters as I fully expected. In the sticky you mention powdering and changing socks every at a set interval based on the pace and the length of the ruck, etc. What powder do you use, and what do you do about open blisters?

3. For training purposes I just wrapped a towel around some Olympic weights and threw them in the ruck. Is there a better weight to use (like sandbags) or better way to pack? I read somewhere that you want the heaviest objects in the middle.

Recommend heavy items at the top of the ruck. I ususally put them in the Radio Pouch if they'd fit. This allows you to stand more erect while walking. If you put them in the bottom, you'll find yourself walking leaning uncomfortably forward to counter the weight. Try it for a short distance and you'll see.

Thanks in advance.

No problem.
Cast or Tab,
JM

[adidasink]

Warrior-Mentor...

Just wanted to say thank you for an awesome book. Although it just arrived last night I am already 1/3 of the way through it and reading the part about falling into one of three categories, I am proud to say that I started out a the "Thinking Seriously" cat, and am now at the "Signing" category...

Great reading and thank you for taking the time to write it for us civilian warrior wannabe's! I dont plan on holding that title much longer!

-John

[Warrior-Mentor]

Best of luck. It's personally rewarding to know that we've been able to help so many studs while simultaneously helping the Force and the Warrior Foundation.
Cast or Tab,
JM

[adidasink]

Okay...I purchased my combat boots...now I would like to buy an A.L.I.C.E pack for training purposes.....is it best to look on Ebay for one? Or should I go with a place like this:

http://www.imsplus.com/ims2.html


Does anyone know of some good reputable places online to buy an A.L.I.C.E pack at a reasonable price or does this look good?

Edit.....I am gonna do some searching via the search tab.....but recommendations would be helpful...so I will leave the above part of my post intact...

-John

[Books]

Brother, the ruck you'll get at CIF is going to be a beat up issue ruck with thread bare straps and a cracked frame you'll have to DX later. Well, it might not be that bad, but it was for many of my friends. Just go to your friendly neighborhood surplus store and get a large size ALICE ruck with a frame. The quality will be about the same, the cost will be lower than a hi-speed internet ruck and you'll be training with what you're going to get issued. And get used to it. The CIF is the same for the SFQC as it is for SFAS. Cool guy gear comes later (post long tab), or so I'm told. Drive on. Books

[The Dave]

Picked mine up on Ebay for $55 shipped...a large ALICE with frame at that. I've only checked out a couple surplus stores here in the Valley, and for one in just slightly better condition was at least twice the price.

[kwu]

I asked my brother who is in the Alabama NG about the types of boots you could bring to basic, he said that they're changing the uniform to desert style, and that you can no longer wear jungle boots, is that true? if so, any recommendation on good tan colored boots?

[Surgicalcric]

I asked my brother who is in the Alabama NG about the types of boots you could bring to basic...


You dont need to bring boots to Basic; they issue them there. You will get two pair and thats what you will wear.... All your personal belongings will be locked up and you wont see them again until graduation so dont bring anything that will spoil... :D

HTH,

Crip

[The Reaper]

I asked my brother who is in the Alabama NG about the types of boots you could bring to basic, he said that they're changing the uniform to desert style, and that you can no longer wear jungle boots, is that true? if so, any recommendation on good tan colored boots?

Exactly.

The Army will issue you everything they want you to use till you get to a certain point in the Q Course.

If you make it that far, they will let you know.

Despite popular internet opinion, gear does not make the man, or the mission, the professional makes the mission regardless of the gear.

Most of the great soldiers I have been fortunate enough to serve with could come out of retirement with WW II gear and still hand you your ass.

TR

[rugby56]

I am just starting airborne school, but before we started a CSM from SF training came to talk to the 18X. He mentioned that many guys were having foot problems from the issued black boots. Did any of you guys going through notice this? I was planning on buying a pair of jungle boots to start breaking in on my own.

[Surgicalcric]

There are always foot problems associated with rucking long distances it seems. You will find it in SOPC, SFAS, PH-II, I would imagine Robin Sage as well if the individuals havent addressed the problem.

I dont know if I would blame the foot problems, as a whole, on the boots as much as improper socks, and insoles or the soldiers feet not being conditioned for the task at hand. Both of these have been discussed here before; a search should provide you with plenty of useful info. FWIW, I wore the ICB's, as well as Wellco jungles, during SFAS and didn't have a problem with my feet.

Proper sized boots, good socks and footbeds, and conditioning your feet to the weight and distance you will be walking are equally important.

HTH,

Crip

[gtcrispy]

To back up what Surgicalcric said. You need to consider the weather conditions as well. I was thankful I had my ICBs during my Jan SFAS class because the temperatures dropping down below 10F. They kept my feet some going completley numb. The jungles are nice for ruck marching because they are lighter. Most guys modify the soles as well. I had good luck with the Fox River boot socks. Sure I still got some blisters through SOPC I and SFAS but it was nothing that took me completley out of commission.

[Stiletto11]

Buy the book Get Selected. It covers all aspects of foot care, boots, how to lace them, inserts, etc. It's a wealth of knowledge you cannot afford to miss if you are going to attempt SFAS. :lifter

[18xray]

In the sticky, it says that you should try not to run, and I have heard this from other places too. It never says why you should try not to run. Does anyone know why this is?

Thanks,
-PFC Altieri

[lksteve]

In the sticky, it says that you should try not to run, and I have heard this from other places too. It never says why you should try not to run. Does anyone know why this is?it's not real good for your back...not real good for your knees....speaking as one who used to run with rucks and presently suffering from spinal arthritis...the knees ain't so good either...

[x SF med]

Roger that CPT Steve - bad back, bad knees, callouses on the feet that you can drive 16d nails into about 1/2way before drawing blood.

Running with a ruck should be reserved for those occasions when the BGs are trying to do you harm.

running in boots should be done occasionally to get used to it.

[Pete]

In the sticky, it says that you should try not to run, and I have heard this from other places too. It never says why you should try not to run. Does anyone know why this is?

Thanks,
-PFC Altieri

When people say run with a runsack most people think "Run" and try and put that view in their head into motion. It don't work and will only beat your body into pieces.

"Running with a rucksack" is more like moving from a fast range walk into an Airborne Shuffle type movement only a hair faster than the range walk. The trick is to run from the hips down, keeping the lower back and body level and straight. This keeps the rucksack from swinging and bouncing.

It's a good change of pace to be used now and again, and make up time here and there, but it will wear out your knees and thighs real quick.

Best to develope a solid stride and fast range walk pace. Be able to pound out mile after mile after mile. Disconect your mind from your feet and drive on. After 6 miles it's a mental game.