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Razor
03-04-2004, 10:07
IMO, lashing and splicing are two skills that can make primitive living much more comfortable and efficient, but are not taught in detail outside of a few specialized courses. I received the bulk of my training in both skills as a Boy Scout, and became fairly proficient in them. One of the best resources for those looking to either learn or brush up on the skills is the Boy Scout Fieldbook (as opposed to the Handbook, which breifly covers both but not nearly as in depth as the Fieldbook). Also, the Pioneering Merit Badge Pamphlet is a handy resource.

While we're at it, let's talk knots for a bit. While there are literally hundreds of basic knots and variations, the handful I've found most useful in general fieldcraft application (I won't even touch climbing or sailing here) are:
Square knot/Surgeon's knot - joining or fastening two running ends
Bowline - making a fixed loop
Half hitch/Two half hitches - securing a rope to a post/pole, such as in stringing a clothesline
Taut-line hitch - making an adjustable tension guy line
Sheetbend - joining two ropes of different diameter
Girth hitch - fastening a fixed loop (such as a lanyard) to a ring, post or another line
Clove hitch - starting and ending many lashings
Figure 8 knot - making a stopper knot in a drawcord, or making a fixed loop
Slip knot - daisy-chaining rope and fascinating children :)

Psywar1-0
03-04-2004, 10:25
Razor,

Ever see a book called "BushCraft"? Its mostly based on South Pacific type survival but has great info on lashing and making cordage from natural fibers.

Razor
03-04-2004, 10:26
Nope, but I'm interested. Excuse me while I 'google'. :)

Edited to add: Well, Amazon.com has several books titled "Bushcraft". Any info on the author?

Psywar1-0
03-04-2004, 13:06
Bushcraft, a Serious Guide to Survival and Camping by Richard Graves.

Mine is a first printing from 1978, No ISBN info :-(

NousDefionsDoc
03-04-2004, 14:44
Great thread! Continue please.

lrd
03-04-2004, 14:59
A few that I use: http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/knots.htm

NousDefionsDoc
07-20-2004, 11:18
Get Knotted (http://www.mistral.co.uk/42brghtn/knots/42ktmenu.html)

Zipper pull (http://www.dfw.net/~jazzman/knotter/zippit.htm)

Knot knowledge (http://www.iland.net/%7Ejbritton/index.html)

Knet Knots (http://www.netknots.com/index.html) Scouting Knots (http://www.netknots.com/index.html)

brownapple
07-21-2004, 07:52
I learned to lash in the Scouts. Pioneering Merit Badge was well worth earning.

Bill Harsey
07-21-2004, 09:04
Any of you folks have to handle wire rope or cable?

Smokin Joe
07-21-2004, 09:11
I have heard of a knot called a Prusic (sp?) IIRC it was used before the invent of flex cuffs. I have been trying to google it but my google-fu is not working this morning.

Bill Harsey
07-21-2004, 09:16
Chief "Patches" Watson (plankowner SEAL Team 2) was out here for a while and we had to tie something down in the pickup, he handed me the rope and told me to put a bowline in and I did. All I heard was "What in the hell did you just do son?" I guess logging bowlines are differant than Navy bowlines.

NousDefionsDoc
07-21-2004, 09:17
Originally posted by Smokin Joe
I have heard of a knot called a Prusic (sp?) IIRC it was used before the invent of flex cuffs. I have been trying to google it but my google-fu is not working this morning.

Knot Knowledge I posted above:

http://www.iland.net/%7Ejbritton/prusik.htm

Kill or Get Kilt also has some good prisoner FE ties starting on page 221

Smokin Joe
07-21-2004, 09:20
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Knot Knowledge I posted above:

http://www.iland.net/%7Ejbritton/prusik.htm

Kill or Get Kilt also has some good prisoner FE ties starting on page 221

Thanks NDD,

I saw that knot but I didn't think it was the same one.

NousDefionsDoc
07-21-2004, 09:25
Only one I know of

Bill Harsey
07-21-2004, 09:32
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc


Kill or Get Kilt also has some good prisoner FE ties starting on page 221 Have the book out now...

Fiercely Loyal
07-19-2007, 04:43
Anyone else a fan of the single handed bowline?

Surgicalcric
07-19-2007, 06:05
Sirs,
Anyone else a fan of the single handed bowline?

Only when tying an around the body bowline as a safety...

Crip

Snaquebite
07-19-2007, 07:51
Here's a link I posted a while back...

http://www.animatedknots.com/

x SF med
07-19-2007, 09:06
Chapman's Piloting is excellent for knots, knotwork, and splicing. For splicing remember to have a good fid, marlinspike and palm handy. Thanks for the nudge, I need to get a new copy of Chapman's and practice splicing.

Also (do I get crossthread points?) Chapman's has a LOT on celestial navigation and plotting for you marops guys.

CDRODA396
07-19-2007, 09:23
Here's a link I posted a while back...

http://www.animatedknots.com/

Snaquebite,

excellent link. I learned knots and lashing in the Boy Scouts, earned the Pioneering Mert Badge, then got into climbing. The knowlege was invaluable in constructing "apparatuses" (spelling?) in Selection, nothing sucked more than things falling apart in the middle of a movement, we didnt have that problem.

The ability to secure things with rope, strips of sandbag, etc. will continually serve you and is worth investing the time into to learn the basics. Razor's first post is a good base list. I would add a couple lashings to round it out, the Square Lashing, Diagonal Lashing and the Tripod Lashing.

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/b-p/lashings.htm

Freedom of the Hills, oriented towards climbing, also has some excellent knots, and lists the relative strength of knots when joining two ropes. IIRC, the figure of 8 retained over 85% of the strength of the rope, follewed by two locking double fisherman's, then the square knot with two overhand knots.

Snaquebite
07-19-2007, 09:36
I learned knots and lashing in the Boy Scouts, earned the Pioneering Mert Badge,

+1 BS of A was a great start for a lot of things for me....

Sionnach
09-25-2007, 16:02
The book, Bushcraft: A Serious Guide to Survival and Camping by Richard Graves, referred to earlier in the thread, is ISBN# 0-8052-0333-8. Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 74-185329.

PSM has more info about the book and author here: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11266

Bushcraft has some useful knots and lashings. The drawings are rudimentary and the book does not walk your through them, so it's more useful as a reference than a how-to for those who are learning knots. That said, the drawings are clear enough that most folks can figure out how to properly create the knots and lashings described in the book. I have seen tying the knots and lashing explained more clearly in other books, and I would wager there's not a lot in there that you wouldn't find in the BSA Fieldbook or a dedicated knot book. However, If you're looking for a small book of basics to carry with you when you hunt or camp so you can work on your knots, lashings, and "primitive" skills, Bushcraft isn't bad.

Pete
09-25-2007, 16:25
The old FM 5-34 had a section on lifting devices, gin poles, shears, etc.

A few blocks, some ropes, knots, throw in some big pipes or logs and you could move the world.

Mix in a class on expedient vehicle recovery and you can really learn how to move, lift or drag big things without busting a gut.

Might come in handy sometime in the future when you're in the middle of nowhere.

BoyScout
09-25-2007, 17:41
My dad was in the Navy and our first patrol dad, we had to tie knots behind our backs or blind folded for the board of review. And I did a one handed bowlines back in the day but I can't anymore, I need to practice.:lifter

Books
09-25-2007, 19:55
When I started working on deck about 9 years ago, I knew a few knots, but really didn't know how to rig cargo for transit on a dynamic platform. I picked up The Arts of the Sailor: Knotting, Splicing and Ropework and over then next couple years got pretty good. This book is an accessible, old school approach to line, block and tackle, splicing, whipping and, for those that care, sennit making.

Here's a link for the book:http://store.doverpublications.com/0486264408.html


It's not often that I have need anymore to bend hawsers, but a carrick bend is still strong and pretty (though a sheet becket bend usually does just fine for most purposes). At this point, I probably only have muscle memory for about 10 knots, bends and hitches, of which I really only need about 5. I too was the go-to-guy in team week; the more we pulled on our contraptions, the more secure they got! :lifter

The knots Razor offered up in the beginning of this thread are a great foundation and will enable one to rig just about anything.

Just thought of something. For those just tuning in, some definition of terms: a knot is when a line (rope) is tied to itself, ie. bowline, a bend is when two lines are "bent" together, and a hitch is when the line is tied to a stationary item, like a post or rail.

Great thread!

Books

gagners
09-26-2007, 11:25
Square knot/Surgeon's knot - joining or fastening two running ends


Only one I'd really disagree with. This is a fine knot if the two ropes will be under constant tension and happen to be of equal diameter (and then, only with an overhand safety around either standing end). To secure the running ends of rope up to 5mm in diameter difference and/or when they won't be under constant tension, use a "Figure 8 bend". With one running end, form an in-line fig 8 and leave it pretty loose. with the other running end, trace the figure 8 knot in reverse (like tying a double figure 8 but with the ropes going in opposite directions). Remove the twists and cinch down. Voila!

I have heard of a knot called a Prusic (sp?) IIRC it was used before the invent of flex cuffs. I have been trying to google it but my google-fu is not working this morning.

The purpose of the prusik is to attach a moveable rope to a fixed rope.

Flex cuffs are cool. NDD's link is indeed the Prusik, but in a different form. For Prusik cuffs, simply tie a prusik knot, but not around another rope (like the green one in NDD's link). Take your two running ends of the prusik and pass them through the "tube" created by the round turns (the tube is where the green rope would be). By pulling on the running ends now, you will tighten (make smaller) the loops/cuffs. I didn't explain that well. I'll post a picture.

A great variation is the "Hot Knot" - so named by one of my SLs in Iraqistan. Evidently, he uses it with his wife... Tie prusik cuffs, restrain the wrists as normal, put the "detainee's" hands behind their head, and tie a squat knot under their chin. The effect is, if the detainee tries to move their hands, they can't breathe. I didn't explain that well, but I'll refrain from posting a picture...

A great resource for knots and rope systems is the student hand-out from the Military Mountaineer Course held at the Army Mountain Warfare School. You can get it by going to https://www.benning.army.mil/amws/mountain/content/2007%20Military%20Mountaineer%20Student%20Handout. pdf pages 71-96 for knots.

Razor
09-26-2007, 17:07
Only one I'd really disagree with. This is a fine knot if the two ropes will be under constant tension and happen to be of equal diameter (and then, only with an overhand safety around either standing end).

Figure 8 bend, water knot, double fisherman's knot..there are several that are more secure, but the downside is they are more complex, take much longer to tie, and are harder to untie later. The square knot is pretty simple, and while its not the best joining knot out there, it does a decent job, especially with natural fiber cordage.


Evidently, he uses it with his wife...

Wandering into TMI land, there.

PSM
09-26-2007, 17:11
Wandering into TMI land, there.


No he's knot! :D

Pat

gagners
09-26-2007, 17:13
Figure 8 bend, water knot, double fisherman's knot..there are several that are more secure, but the downside is they are more complex, take much longer to tie, and are harder to untie later. The square knot is pretty simple, and while its not the best joining knot out there, it does a decent job, especially with natural fiber cordage.




Wandering into TMI land, there.

To the first part, roger. It really depends on the application.

To the second part, roger. Poor excuse for humor - but it was funny when he told us. Back to read mode.

Razor
09-26-2007, 17:22
Bad PSM, bad! Naughty dog; go sit in the corner. :D

Gagners (pronounced gan-yea?), no worries. It is kind of funny, but opens too many doors, you know?

gagners
09-26-2007, 17:31
Bad PSM, bad! Naughty dog; go sit in the corner. :D

Gagners (pronounced gan-yea?), no worries. It is kind of funny, but opens too many doors, you know?

Parfait. C'est le mot "to win" en francais. But if you are a 10th SFG guy, you probably already knew that. :cool:

bricklayer
09-26-2007, 19:47
I learned to lash in the Scouts. Pioneering Merit Badge was well worth earning.

I myself was an Eagle Scout, and above being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, curtious, kind, obedient, cheerfull, thrifty, brave, clean and reverant, lashings and knots were one of the key lessons I took with me. When boarding my first fishing vessel the captain was impressed that a greenhorn could tie a sheepshank, clovehitch, and eyesplice a rope faster than the first mate. Little did I know when I went ice climbing for the first time that a figure eight knot was the one knot used to keep you in tact with your fate.