View Full Version : What am I?
Airbornelawyer
08-22-2005, 20:31
What am I?
Spartan359
08-22-2005, 20:36
What am I?
Looks like a funny version of the SCAR but..............
The Reaper
08-22-2005, 20:51
Fabrique Nationale Herstal F2000.
Fired one recently. Not a big fan.
TR
Spartan359
08-22-2005, 20:59
Fabrique Nationale Herstal F2000.
Fired one recently. Not a big fan.
TR
Damn, there isn't much you haven't fired sir.
The Reaper
08-22-2005, 21:01
Damn, there isn't much you haven't fired sir.
What can I say, I get around a little. :D
TR
Airbornelawyer
08-23-2005, 12:51
Do you ever get to Estonia?
The pic is from Erna Retk 2005. Erna Retk, or Erna Raid, is an annual military competition held in Estonia, sponsored by the Erna Society. The Erna Society commemorates an Estonian assault battalion that served in World War Two alongside the German Wehrmacht and the Finnish Army.
Most of the teams come from various Estonian military units, but this year's field of 29 included teams from Belgium (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=acs), China (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adf), Denmark (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=acb), Finland (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=abg), Germany (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=acp), Great Britain, Hungary, Italy (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=abb), Sweden (http://video.erna.ee/gallery/Erma-2005-Aug-05/DSC08623) and the United States (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=abd).
Homefield advantage helps - this year's winners were a team from the Estonian Army's Scoutspataljon (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=acj) (Scout Battalion), followed by a team from the Luurepataljon (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adl) (Recon Battalion) and one from the Military Academy (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=abw). A female team (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adx) came in second to last, but beat the Italians.
There's a fair mix of weapons, uniforms and gear. Besides the Belgians with their FNs, the Americans with their M-4s, the Danes with their C8A2s, the Finns with their M-95s, etc., the Estonians alone displayed a variety. These (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=acl) guys (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=aau), from one of the two Scoutspataljon teams, have Israeli Galils and what looks like British style DPM. Other Estonians (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=abr) have what looks like Polish camouflage. These guys (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adr), who have both US and Polish cammies, are from the Estonian reserve officers' team. These (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adn) guys (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album88&id=adm) with the G-36s and US woodland BDUs are from the Luurepataljon.
A gallery from the opening ceremony is here (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album87). One from the beach assault is here (http://www.mil.ee/~fotek/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album88). Each of the pics opens to a much larger image.
Several galleries of smaller photos from the various events are here (http://video.erna.ee/gallery/erna2005).
Well, it was nice to see that the active duty team from the base where i served, came in 4th.
Damn it... I'm always a day late on these things. :mad:
Bravo1-3
08-23-2005, 16:37
Fabrique Nationale Herstal F2000.
Fired one recently. Not a big fan.
TR
Sir,
A civilian version is going to offered in the US in the next year or so. What about the 2000 didn't you like? I ask because I'm thinking about laying out a deposit on one. Your insight would be very helpfull.
Airbornelawyer
08-23-2005, 16:44
Here's a question for Tuukka: why does Estonia use the Galil instead of the M-95 or a similar Finnish rifle, given the fact that the weapons are so similar and given Finland's proximity to and relationship with Estonia? Cost? Export regulations?
The Reaper
08-23-2005, 20:05
Sir,
A civilian version is going to offered in the US in the next year or so. What about the 2000 didn't you like? I ask because I'm thinking about laying out a deposit on one. Your insight would be very helpfull.
Your only access to the chamber is through the little flip up port at the back of the receiver. Good luck clearing a malfunction there.
I did personally note a serious muzzle climb in full-auto fire. A later shooter dumped an entire mag in one burst, the majority of rounds being fired well above the target, the last 10 above the berm.
Other than that, I do not see it offering much beyond the alternatives. What does it do that the M-4 or the H&K does not? I would much prefer the H&K 416 with the H&K steel mags.
Just my .02, YMMV.
Bravo1-3
08-23-2005, 20:12
Thank you, I will save my money then.
Dustin03
08-23-2005, 21:17
i noticed a pic with a 20th GRP memeber :cool:
Here's a question for Tuukka: why does Estonia use the Galil instead of the M-95 or a similar Finnish rifle, given the fact that the weapons are so similar and given Finland's proximity to and relationship with Estonia? Cost? Export regulations?
I would say that price is a large factor again, they obviously got a bundle of Galils for the price that a smaller number of production Rk95s would have cost them. I am not 100% sure that if the Rk95s are even manufactured any more, atleast the civilian version M92S manufacture ceased a a few years back.
The Estonians also received thousands of U.S. M14 rifles.
The Estonians also received thousands of U.S. M14 rifles.
And a couple ODAs from my company did a MTT on that rifle for them back in '97.
Airbornelawyer
08-24-2005, 09:32
I would say that price is a large factor again, they obviously got a bundle of Galils for the price that a smaller number of production Rk95s would have cost them. I am not 100% sure that if the Rk95s are even manufactured any more, atleast the civilian version M92S manufacture ceased a a few years back.
The Estonians also received thousands of U.S. M14 rifles.They also received a lot of G-3s, which equip a number of reserve units.
Snipers use the Galil sniper rifle.
Oddly, active units have the Israeli Galil assault rifle and the German MG-3 machine gun, but while reserve units have the German G-3 assault rifle, they have MAG machine guns (which I believe came from Israel).
Airbornelawyer
08-24-2005, 09:44
And a couple ODAs from my company did a MTT on that rifle for them back in '97.From what I can tell, they don't use them anymore. Even the Kaitseliit (Estonian Defense League), a voluntary militia, appears to have the G-3 now.
From what I can tell, they don't use them anymore. Even the Kaitseliit (Estonian Defense League), a voluntary militia, appears to have the G-3 now.
Yes, seen them used lately only for ceremonial etc. duties.
Even the more reason to sell some to the other side of the bay, only few M14s floating around here.
Airbornelawyer
08-25-2005, 09:59
Oddly, active units have the Israeli Galil assault rifle and the German MG-3 machine gun, but while reserve units have the German G-3 assault rifle, they have MAG machine guns (which I believe came from Israel).Apparently, the MAG 58s came from Sweden.
AL, Swedish designation Ksp 58. Originally designed for 6.5 mm ammunition, for ease of use with the older service rifle M96 - i.e. Mauser (which I've fired, liked it).
The Swedish defense later switched to the H&K G3, military designation Ak4 (Automatkarbin 4/Automatic Carbine 4), which utilizes the 7.62x51 mm round. The timing of the switch I am not sure of, but the Ksp58/MAG 58 was rechambered for the new round. The 7.62 version is called Ksp58B.
According to www.soldf.com there's still 6.5 mm ammo left since the great production of early 20th century.
The Ak4/G3 has since been replaced by the 5.56 mm Ak5 (FN FNC 80), produced under license of Bofors. The Ak4 is still in use in Hemvärnet, an organization vaguely resembling the U.S. National Guard.
The Mauser had found its way to the "Boy Scout Militias" (my term, suggesting FBU Ungdom, Flygvapnets Ungdomsförening, and so on) - civilian units resembling militarized Boy Scouts and run by the military. Available for youths aged 15-20, no combat training is conducted for personell under 18 years of age. In accordance with Swedish law, you need to be over 17 years old to handle automatic weapons. In the areas around Stockholm, this means the Ak5 carbine. Because of political pressure, those under 17 years of age have transfered to the use of .22 long rifles. I suppose that means the end of the M96/Mauser.
I would not be suprised if G3/Ak4s have also found their way to Estonia, but I have not confirmed this. A lot of military surplus is transferred accross the puddle. This is partly because of economic profit reasons in conjunction with the disbandment of units in and the reorganization of the Swedish military from an invasion defense towards a task force oriented one (poor translation of Insatsförsvar: task force, rapid reaction units)
Martin
Airbornelawyer
08-25-2005, 11:04
I think it likely that some if not most of the G-3s in Estonian service are Ak.4 variants. There is a thread on the Ak.4 on the Estonian Defense League discussion forum, but my Estonian isn't good enough to tell me if they are talking in general or about specific rifles in Estonian service. The words "obsolete" and "piece of junk" do stand out, however.