View Full Version : Might be a strange request
This might be a strange request, especially since I am new here, but I was wondering if anyone in the Bragg area would mind giving me assistance in Land Nav? I am currently working on my SFAS packet, I seem pretty confident on most things except LandNav. I basically know nothing on orienteering. I have been bugging the hell out of people in my unit to teach me but no such luck. I know none of you really know who I am, but possibly there are some others from Lightfighter.net that can hopefully vouch for me. Well in any case, thank you for giving this a read.
To add to this, if anyone has some good links on military land nav, I would appreciate it also.
I've found some links, but I don't know my arse from my elbow as to if they're any good or not.
Land Nav is like SA in some ways.
The mechanical part of Land Nav is easy. You move from point A to point B. You transfer the two points to a map. Find the distance and direction and start walking until you get to point B.
The key to Land Nav is having a real good pace count and the ability to keep your direction as you move left and right around obstructions in your line of march. Pace count varies from just LBE and weapon, add a ruck, a heavy ruck and then walking and jogging. Direction may be general as when moving to an attack point on a long distance Land Nav course or exact when moving on a land nav course with multiple targets set up on two paralel roads about 700-1,000 meters apart.
You get your gross pace count by moving along a marked distance on a flat surface like a road. You then move to a Land Nav area and move between two know distance points. You compare the two distances and come up with your true pace count.
Direction is something that takes work. In the daytime you can sight in on a tree 100 meters to your front, move to it, pick another and keep moving, and so on. At night you have to keep a mental picture of your movements as you move. Right around this tree, left around the next. I went about 10 meters to the left around this brushy area, I need to move that far right.
The wooded areas around Camp McK and Hoffman do not have any gross terain features. Ups, Downs, Trails and Streams are very small and easy to miss but they are there. As you plan your route over the map for each leg you should notice that it will be level for about 400 meters, slight down slope for 200, slight upslope for 300 meters, cross a trail and then level 200 meters to the target. The mental picture of the ground should match your pace count as you move.
All of the above takes practice. A lot more practice for some than others.
The key to everything is your ability to trust in your training. If you are not comfortable in the woods at night and if you do not trust your own abilities you will be a No-Go at Land Nav.
You will get great classes on Land Nav at SFAS.
Amato,
Welcome, and good luck with your packet.
There have been some good threads on this topic here, though it has been some time. Try searching for "orienteering", "map reading", etc. You might also search socnet - I seem to recall some good land nav threads over there from a long time ago, plus a discussion of pace counts for soldiers headed to Ranger School.
Bill Harsey
08-21-2005, 09:30
Not to sidetrack but just a footnote,
My woods experience is from the hills out here in Oregon when weather permitting, we have gross land features to orient from.
After being a guest in some of the training areas mentioned here I can see how that is PERFECT training ground for reading a map, compass and pace count. Unless you have a starry night, it isn't easy to cheat.
On the other hand, if you guys would go ahead and finish up your logging, the visibilty would be a little better.
Desert Fox
08-21-2005, 15:05
Hi Amato,
Personally, I greatly improved my Land Nav skills simply by practicing almost every weekends. It just takes maybe 5 hours, its fun, and very useful. At first I practiced without any rucksack, so I can focus and learn more. I also did night navigation. At night, I found that the hardest thing was to stick with your plan and trust your ''instruments''(pace and orientation).
Whenever I see a map, I do some mental ''war games'' and plan some routes (what if....).
Also, know your limitations.
Keep a log book and note what you have learned, right after you come back from the woods. you can also place a GPS in your pocket, so at the end you can see how accurate you were.
my .02
Olivier
I wouln't mind spending my weekends practicing it, but what I don't want to do is go out there and try to teach myself, and come back with some bad habits.
just my .02
Am not sure what ur time frame is but have a few suggestions.
1st sign up for the Land Nav. correspondence course #IS0788 this will teach you the basics on how to read a map and such.
2nd get the FM that cover military Land Nav. and use it with the Corre. course
3rd when I was at bragg I think I can recall a orienteering club ethier on post or in the ville, if not am sure there is one close by that you could join.
4th look for another guy in your unit or on post that is planning on going to SFAS and try to train with them
good luck with your training hope this is of some help
A technique a friend of mine used was to get a map of the local National Forest and plan a route and walk it on the weekend. As you are at Bragg, on the weekend do a cross-country ruck.
The more land nav you do, the better you will be at it. Can you do SOPC1 prior to SFAS. That has some excellant land nav training
The Reaper
08-21-2005, 19:22
NOTE: If you are rucking on an installation, make sure that you stay out of the impact areas. If you are not sure what/where they are, check with Range Control.
If you are moving on Federal/State/private land, check with the management office and move only in designated areas.
Keep your head up and SA on high while moving. If you stumble onto some illegal activity, you want to see them before they see you. Make note of the location and quietly move away from the area.
There are a lot of people doing bad things out there, don't get surprised and keep an eye out for LE as well.
Have a very SF Day.
TR
NOTE:
Keep your head up and SA on high while moving. If you stumble onto some illegal activity, you want to see them before they see you. Make note of the location and quietly move away from the area.
There are a lot of people doing bad things out there, don't get surprised and keep an eye out for LE as well.
You talking about the forests of Bragg or national parks?
Thanks for the input guys.
Bill Harsey
08-21-2005, 21:57
NOTE: If you are rucking on an installation, make sure that you stay out of the impact areas. If you are not sure what/where they are, check with Range Control.
If you are moving on Federal/State/private land, check with the management office and move only in designated areas.
Keep your head up and SA on high while moving. If you stumble onto some illegal activity, you want to see them before they see you. Make note of the location and quietly move away from the area.
There are a lot of people doing bad things out there, don't get surprised and keep an eye out for LE as well.
Have a very SF Day.
TR
Amato,
While I do not have the intimate knowledge of the greater area that the QP's here do, I learned enough to make the semi-educated guess that The Reaper means ALL of it. Anywhere, anytime.
...just like the woods around here.
Re-read the above post.
Same down here. Lots of cannabis crops everywhere, protected with the likes of cyanide tipped fishing hooks at eye level and booby trapped shottys.
All utterly charming stuff.
Bill Harsey
08-21-2005, 22:37
Huey14, OWWY!
The bad guys would often rather operate on government lands because if the operation is found out, they have a chance of not being tracked back to where they live or having personal property seized. I don't know what the drug crime/ property seizure laws are in North Carolina but it's driven many into the publicly owned (BLM, USFS and Oregon State Forest) out here in the west.
Also the portable meth labs are used in the woods and all the waste chemicals are just dumped with nobody to see or smell and then complain.
Oh the great outdoors!
Bill, Yes they have gotten smarter. I also think there are a lot of small operations. Meth labs, for example, can be operated out of the back of a car. Mobility allows a more secure environment. Generally the smell is what sets neighbors to wonder about what is going on inside a house. Meth labs in buildings, seem to be mostly rented buildings. The mobile labs have gotten more popular and Oregon has a lot of unpopulated areas. Rumor has it, some big players may be getting into the domestic manufacture of "crack", rather then have it made "off shore" and imported.
The good news is that raw material necessary for making meth is being made very difficult to come by. The drug companies are switching to a different compound that can not be changed in to "crack". That will mean, the crack manufacturers will go back to the old ways, that required a fixed location, more equipment, more knowledge of chemistry etc, that was the method before the shake and bake easy crack method was figured out.
Keeping a eye out for illegal activity is a good thought. For Oregon, we have some very remote areas difficult to get to except by foot. I doubt there is much going on once you get away from the roads. A good source for Oregon and Washington, are the climbing guides. The routes are much more secluded and once your away from the trail heads there area are rather secure. Bad boys tend to be lazy, and hate to walk.
This might be a strange request, especially since I am new here, but I was wondering if anyone in the Bragg area would mind giving me assistance in Land Nav?
The SFAS cadre will teach you everything you need to know to pass the land nav portions of Selection. Anything else you bring to the table is gravy... just remember blue on the map means water, water means draws, draws mean pain and misery and most likely non-selection. By having a 110+ GT score means you probably possess the aptitude to learn and apply basic land nav skills, heart is what plants one foot in front of the other. If ya aint't there on the last day ya ain't getting selected, but on the same token survival isn't selection. My 2¢.
Sorry to revive kind of an old thread, but I am also on Bragg looking to improve my land-nav prior to Selection. I've got the procedure straight and have studied the FM, but need some "hands-on." My leadership has told me that it is possible to use the land nav course on my own time. However, noone seems to be able to produce the "key" or map. I've tried my Squad Leader, Platoon SGT, Det SGT, Commander, our previous Commander, and several other NCO's in the unit, all without success. Does anyone happen to have the map for the Ft Bragg land nav course? I've been stationed here for a year. We did land nav once, and I was taking my wife to her appointment that day. My luck :rolleyes: I understand that we'll get refresher training at Selection, but I haven't gotten to do it since Basic. Any chance that anyone can help out, I'd really appreciate it.
Once I get it, anyone on Bragg who'd like to go with me shoot me a PM. It'll be a ruckin good time. I mean a rockin good time. :D
S
Never mind, my Det SGT finally came through! I'm psyched. We need a new smiley of the weightlifter, but with a map and compass, on the move. That's me!
S