4 Star General relieved of command

[rubberneck]

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
20 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - The Army, in a rare disciplinary act against a four-star officer, said Tuesday it relieved Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes of his command in the midst of an investigation into unspecified "personal conduct."


Byrnes was relieved as commander of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command on Monday by Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker, according to a brief statement issued by Army headquarters at the Pentagon.

In that post, Byrnes oversaw all Army training programs and the development of war-fighting guidelines. It operates 33 training schools and centers on 16 Army installations and is headquartered at Fort Monroe, Va.

Although disciplinary action against general officers is not uncommon, it is extremely rare for a four-star general to be relieved of command. Byrnes held the position as commander of Training and Doctrine Command since November 2002. Before that he was director of the Army staff at Army headquarters in the Pentagon.

"The investigation upon which this relief is based is undergoing further review to determine the appropriate final disposition of this matter," the Army statement said.

A spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Bryan Whitman, said the investigation involved "matters of personal conduct," but he would not say more.

Other officials said the matter was being investigated by the Defense Department Inspector General.

Among the four-star general or flag officers to have been relieved of command in recent years was Navy Adm. Richard C. Macke, sacked as commander of Pacific Command in 1995 for remarks he made about the case of U.S. Marines accused of raping a 12-year-old Japanese girl, and Gen. Michael Dugan, who was fired as chief of staff of the Air Force in 1990 for comments to reporters about planning for the 1991 Gulf War.

Army officials said they were not immediately able to cite the last time a four-star Army general was relieved of duty.

With the departure of Byrnes, the deputy commander of Training and Doctrine Command, Lt. Gen. Anthony R. Jones, has been designated the acting commander, said Army spokesman Paul Boyce.

The spokesman said it was an Army policy not to release information about specific allegations in an investigation of an Army officer.

In April the Pentagon announced that Lt. Gen. William Wallace had been nominated for a four star and assignment as commander of Training and Doctrine Command, to succeed Byrnes, but he has not yet been confirmed by the Senate. There was no public indication at the time that Byrnes was under investigation.

[Jo Sul]

The plot thickens . . . another General caught playing with his Privates.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/09/general.relieved.ap/index.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In an extraordinary move, the Army sacked a four-star general who was the subject of a Defense Department investigation into alleged sexual misconduct, an official said Tuesday.

Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, commander of Army Training and Doctrine Command, was approaching retirement when the decision to relieve him of duty was made by the Army chief of staff, Gen. Peter Schoomaker.

The Army announced no specific allegation against Byrnes, but a senior official said it involved unspecified sexual misconduct. The official spoke only on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the allegation.

Disciplinary action against officers is not rare, but it is extremely unusual in the case of a four-star general. An Army spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, said records from the General Officer Management Office show no cases in recent history in which a four-star general has been relieved of duty for disciplinary reasons.

Byrnes, 52, a Vietnam veteran who entered the Army in 1969 as a second lieutenant, ranked third in seniority among the Army's 11 four-star generals.

A two-sentence statement issued by Army headquarters in the Pentagon said Byrnes had been relieved of his position. It gave no reason except to say, "The investigation upon which this relief is based is undergoing further review to determine the appropriate final disposition of this matter."

A spokesman at Training and Doctrine Command, Harvey Perritt, said Byrnes was unavailable to comment.

In his position as commander of Training and Doctrine Command, Byrnes oversaw all Army training programs and the development of war-fighting guidelines. The organization operates 33 training schools and centers on 16 Army installations and is headquartered at Fort Monroe, Virginia. Byrnes had been commander since November 2002.

Among the command's responsibilities is to oversee Army recruiting and initial recruit training, as well as operation of the Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth, which is responsible for leadership development and the writing of warfighting doctrine. Coincidentally, the commander of the Combined Arms Center, Lt. Gen. William Wallace, was nominated in April to succeed Byrnes at Training and Doctrine Command.

Wallace has not yet been confirmed by the Senate for promotion to four-star rank, so the Army chose Byrnes' top deputy, Lt. Gen. Anthony R. Jones, to take over immediately as the acting commander.

Asked about the case at a Pentagon news conference, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld had little to say.

"It's something that's being handled in the proper channels, and it's not something that it would be appropriate for me to get involved with," he said.

Other officials said the matter was investigated by the Defense Department Inspector General, and the findings were now being considered by senior Army officials to determine whether further action should be taken.

Among the four-star general or flag officers to have been relieved of command in recent years was Navy Adm. Richard C. Macke, sacked as commander of Pacific Command in 1995 for remarks he made about the case of U.S. Marines accused of raping a 12-year-old Japanese girl. Gen. Michael Dugan was fired as chief of staff of the Air Force in 1990 for comments to reporters about planning for the 1991 Gulf War.

[El Cid]

Latest reports say he was having an affair (dating) a civilian woman. She had no affiliation to the DoD and his divorce was finalized on Monday (the same day he was relieved).

Now, I hope there is more to it than this. He and his wife had been separated for some time and while that is technically adultery... they better start hammering LOTS of folks in uniform if they are going to hold us to the letter of the law. If there is not more to it, then I am deeply disappointed in the decision to fire him.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Let's wait for the word before we get a rope, eh fellows?

[The Reaper]

Let's wait for the word before we get a rope, eh fellows?

Well said.

I think I saw that somewhere else, too. :D

TR

[Manstein]

Byrnes, 52, a Vietnam veteran who entered the Army in 1969 as a second lieutenant, ranked third in seniority among the Army's 11 four-star generals.

He entered the Army as a second lieutenant, at the age of 16?

Probably a typo....other websites are saying he is 55.

[The Reaper]

He entered the Army as a second lieutenant, at the age of 16?

Probably a typo....other websites are saying he is 55.

I saw that and counted it out as well, assumed that it was a typo.

TR

[CRad]

Let's wait for the word before we get a rope, eh fellows?


Good idea. No matter what happened it's pretty rare to see somebody from the civilian world get raked over the coals because of personal conduct. When was the last time y'all saw moral turpitude as an offense worthy of losing your job over?

Folks want military to behave better than civilians, be more accountable, then 1. pay them better and 2. get involved your damn self and see how you stack up against today's warriors.

[Airbornelawyer]

Good idea. No matter what happened it's pretty rare to see somebody from the civilian world get raked over the coals because of personal conduct. When was the last time y'all saw moral turpitude as an offense worthy of losing your job over?
On March 6, 2005, Harry Stonecipher, the Chief Executive Officer and President of Boeing Corporation, resigned on request of the company's Board of Directors after the Chairman of the Board was tipped to an affair Stonecipher was having.

Paul Chellgren, the Chairman and CEO of Ashland Inc., was forced to resign on August 2, 2002 after disclosure of an affair.

On October 20, 1997, Martin Hanaka, the President and Chief Operating Officer of Staples Inc., was forced to resign for violating the company's fraternization policy.

On March 5, 1997, Frederic C. Brussee was terminated as Chairman and CEO of RightCHOICE Managed Care, Inc., a subsidiary of Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Missouri, due to an affair.

After Stonecipher's resignation, there was a fair amount of discussion in the business and legal communities over standards of personal conduct by corporate executives. Everything from Monica Lewinsky to Sarbanes-Oxley was cited as a factor for why executive behavior is under greater scrutiny.

In each of these cases, as in most cases involving resignations or firings over affairs in the corporate world, the affair was with another employee. The armed forces holds their members to a higher standard of conduct, but the underlying philosophy is the same. It is not the moral turpitude by itself (though that is a component), but it's effect on the organization's confidence in your judgment, integrity and ability to deal with subordinates.

[HOLLiS]

When was the last time y'all saw moral turpitude as an offense worthy of losing your job over?

.

Maybe it would be better to start another thread on Leadership to discuss moral turpitude as a quality of leadership.

[The Reaper]

The details are not in yet people.

This is all speculative till the report is out.

It is a violation of the UCMJ for a service member (even a separated one with a request for a divorce in process) to have relations with a woman other than his wife.

If it was not flagrant, criminal, or with a subordinate, I do not see many civilian companies caring about this, as long as it does not affect the bottom line.

We do not know who his alleged partner was yet. At the same time, I will be surprised if they relieved him (in lieu of retirement) and it was a single person he was seeing who was unaffiliated with the Army.

Just my .02, time will tell.

TR

[CPTAUSRET]

As has been stated all the facts are not yet in.

I personally of two 2 bangers who were relieved for cause. Both flagrant violations, either involving their personal staff, or the wife of a subordinate. Both just happened to be Aviators.

Terry

[Sacamuelas]

Folks want military to behave better than civilians, be more accountable, then 1. pay them better and 2. get involved your damn self and see how you stack up against today's warriors.

While I agree 100% about not getting the rope out until the case has been fully investigated, I don't see the point in the above. I don’t think a lack of sufficient pay for this General is what led to his bad decision making.

Yes, I want our Senior military leadership to be better than "civilians" if what we are going to consider in the civilian world as “acceptable” includes breaking commonly known regulations/laws and living one's personal life in an unprofessional manner which unfortunately ends up causing him to have more difficulty in carrying out the duties assigned to him.

This General is being investigated for a charge that we ALL know exists in the military. Is it different in the military than in the civilian world? Of course it is. Is that fair? That really doesn’t matter in this particular case. As far as I understand, our military depends on good order and discipline as part of the fundamentals to accomplish its objectives. If the personal integrity of a man who is expected to be a leader becomes suspect, this can erode the foundations that support his ability to make unbiased decisions or even to command those he is responsible for leading. Realistically, GEN Schoomaker was put into this situation by poor decision of the accused, not the other way around. I don't see many realistic alternatives for GEN Schoomaker once the accusations have been publicly and officially brought to his attention.

Now, I am not saying that Pvt Joe will not follow his orders due to an "alleged" affair. I am not saying that COL Betty or MAJ Bob may lose faith in the General’s military decision making and refuse to follow his orders. I AM saying that it’s possible a member of the very small minority of self-serving backstabbers that exists in all groups (civilian or military) may use knowledge of his discretion as leverage against this General to manipulate a future decision of his for personal gain.

As a leader/commander/supervisor/boss, you can not allow yourself to be put in such a compromised position to those you command. Just do the risk/benefit analysis on the decision not to wait until the divorce is final? Poor decision.

FWIW, I know several professionals in the civilian world that have been asked to leave or demoted for messing around in their private lives. It doesn't usually make the newspapers- I admit that.

I know this could sound all high and mighty. That was not the intent.
I realize people make mistakes. IMO, the higher someone gets in the chain of command directly relates to how much I expect they should be held accountable for their indiscretions. To me, it just comes down to big boy rules....

[Doc]

No matter what happened it's pretty rare to see somebody from the civilian world get raked over the coals because of personal conduct. When was the last time y'all saw moral turpitude as an offense worthy of losing your job over?

President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky ring a bell?

Doc