Field Sharpening

[Bill Harsey]

Maybe you guys can help me. How do you field sharpen your knives? What problems do you have? This is not a trick question because you guys are always surprising me with how much you do well. Reaper has already surprised me with a couple field expedient sharpening tricks I'd never heard of. I'm wondering what else I'm missing. Many Thanks, Bill

[brownapple]

I carry a small whetstone and a small ceramic rod. Use the whetstone for more extensive work, the ceramic rod to dress an edge.

[Eagle5US]

I have a diamond dust butterfly stone...fine on one side/ dress on the other...
For stuff that is really bad off...a swift river rock with water first has set me in a pinch - then finishing with some CLP, but I have never used this on my "Good Knife"...only a USN issue MK5 and the Survival vest Issue Knife.

Eagle

[NousDefionsDoc]

I am the worse knife sharpener in the world. I usually give mine to somebody that knows what they are doing in exchange for free medical care or something. I wish I could learn how to do it.

[Eagle5US]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Eagle, What is CLP?
Cleaner, Lubricant, Protectant...it's "weapons windex"

Eagle

[Bill Harsey]

NDD, I've always said knifemaking is a genetic defect so your in good shape. Reason for my wanting all the response possible on this question is to see if what I know may be valuable to the Quiet Profesionals. My intention is to both write and illustrate a short piece on field sharpening. Goal is to make it useful to as many guys as possible. This will NOT be "how to bench sharpen in a well appointed custom knife making shop". This will be how to sit on the cold wet ground and make a knife that has seen some hard use cut again with stuff that's light enough to be in the pack when needed. Please guys, do not hesitate to jump in. This isn't a test and no judgement is being made. Remember, knifemaking is a genetic defect...and you all evolved past it.

[Bill Harsey]

Eagle, Thanks for CLP. I shouldn't forget that.

[The Reaper]

Okay, guess I will chime in here with my .02.

At home I have a Spyderco Tri-Angle sharpener and a DMT angle sharpener, along with files, a bench grinder, and all of my field sharpening gear.

For the field, I take a pair of DMT Duo-Fold double sided diamond sticks, and a DMT diamond rod for sharpening serrations. I drop the Duo-Fold, or a soft Arkansas stone into the outside pouch of a knife sheath. A machete or an axe really needs a file for the field.

For field expedient use, any flat abrasive surface harder than the steel works, albeit some better than others. Concrete works well in a pinch, as will hardened steel, certain bricks, or even the top of a vehicle window. I have stropped knives and razors on leather belts or the palm of my hand.

As I am sure Mr. Harsey will tell you, sharpening is an effort to remove metal from the edge of a blade to reshape it to a certain angle. Different blades and cutting applications require different angles. IIRC, the desired angles are usually from 35 degrees (blunt chopping tools) to 15 degrees or so (shaving razors). All other factors being equal, the thinner the angle, the quicker it will go away and need sharpening. Some tools have a double bevel on the edge, and some very dull ones can be best sharpened by taking an angle, then trimming it down to a lesser angle. If the blade was sharp on both sides, be sure to sharpen both sides equally in alternating patterns, or you will get a one sided or wire edge which will quickly come off and leave the knife dull again. Some knives are flat on one side and beveled on the other, like a chisel, and require sharpening only on the beveled side.

The harder the steel, the longer it will take to sharpen, and the longer the tool will hold its edge. The worst case is a hard steel tool with a very dull blunted edge being resharpened hair popping sharp. This can be a laborious process. It almost always takes less time to stop and keep the blade relatively sharp than to let it get extremely dull and try to resharpen it then.

And as Forest Gump says, "That's all I have to say about that" Hope that passes on what little I know about the subject and meets Mr. Harsey's intent.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

I have a DMT single sided, but I've never tried to use it.

[BadMuther]

I always had a spyderco ceramic double sided stone taped in it's sheath to my scabbard. Everyone who borrowed it said it worked awesome....I wouldn't know, I sharpen like NDD. :rolleyes:

NDD, I ended up getting a Lansky knife sharpener...that's the ONLY thing I can sharpen a knife with.

I like the spyderco ceramic cuz it doesn't load up that quickly and you can use spit as alubricant. Cleaned up really fast with a toothbrush and some soap.

[Bill Harsey]

Sir Reaper, Thanks! That's right on track, you've done this before haven't you? The reason I was thinking about "how to sharpen" was that I've noticed we are now several generations "off the farm and out of the woods" so to speak. I meet young guys now who never had their dad show them how to sharpen. I'll let out more as we go along, have any of you guys watched the ESPN, Stihl Timber Sports? Noticed any chopping with an axe? More on this to come and it has to do with field sharpening.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I have a DMT single sided, but I've never tried to use it.

NOTE: Sharpening knives is dangerous and should not be attempted without adequate professional training and safety gear. Avoid cutting yourself, or others, as well as treasured items. Knives may inflict serious injuries, even when dull. Attempt sharpening at your own risk.

My technique would be to decide what a good angle would be for the knife and look at the gap between the rear of the blade and the stone. Try to maintain the same gap (angle) the entire time. Put the stone on a flat surface or if large enough, in your weak hand. Your thigh will do, if you are experienced and have nowhere else,, and have plenty of whole blood handy. While holding it at that angle and the base of the knife at the near edge of the stone, push the knife away from you (like you are trying to slice a wedge from the stone) while simultaneously sliding it so that the entire blade gets sharpened all the way to the tip. Reverse the blade to the other side and pull it back towards you at the same angle, being careful not to slice yourself in the process. Repeat as needed. If the stone loses its abrasiveness due to steel buildup, stop and wash it with liquid detergent. If you have two different grits, and the knife does not respond quickly to the finest, go back to start with the coarsest. Depending on the knife, the steel, the desired edge, and the cutting ability of the stone, this can take anywhere from a couple of minutes to an hour.

Looking forward to Mr. Harsey, Jr. telling me the correct way and learning something in the process. That is just the way my Dad taught me.

TR

[The Reaper]

Hey, unsolicited plug here.

I stopped by the DMT booth at the SHOT Show and the owner said that they receive thousands of requests every year for sharpening gear from guys who are deployed.

They have gone as far as adopting units and sending them care packages and sharpeners for free.

If you are passing on goodie lists to civilian support groups, you might add sharpeners like the DMT to the list, it appears that while every soldier has his Jimmy Lile Rambo knife, few thought to bring sharpeners. The Duo-folds are particularly handy.

Hey, NDD, wanna tell your One Eyed Nail story now?

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Reaper,
I've never before seen a warning for sharpening. I should post that in the shop here and read it once in a while. I've also never heard of balancing the stone on your thigh before. Like I said, this is where I get surprised, often. Ok now, ARE YOU NUTS? I'm going out in the shop to try that right away. Mishandling of edged tools around here over the years has resulted in stitches, couple trips to the ER and one scheduled surgery. Do as I say, not as I do.

Edited to add years later:
Of course TR is nuts, at a very high level of function. There are more here like him.

Field Sharpening is about getting it done in the field with minimum equipment. I am now going to look at this thread and for reasons of clarity may edit some of my writing as needed.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Somebody must have deleted it, I can't find it.

[brownapple]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Greenhat Sir, Not to be a pain in the rear but do you know what kind of whetstone you have? How long is it? If it's short, I imagine you have to hold the knife still and work the stone over the edge? Ceramic rod is good final move. Eagle, What is CLP?

All I can tell you is that it is about 18% gray in color, it is small (about 3" long by 1" wide) and I work both knife and stone (yeah, I know, not a good technique, but I've always been one of those people who can put an edge on anything - learned in the boyscouts and found it easy).

[Bill Harsey]

Greenhat, I wouldn't dream of tampering with what is working. I may have to see the video someday...Sounds like you have a fairly common, good, small stone. That said, you may not easily find the quality of stone you have on the store shelf, don't lose it. Bill

[NousDefionsDoc]

That said, you may not easily find the quality of stone you have on the store shelf, don't lose it. Bill
LOL
Mr. Harsey,
Greenhat is what is known in the trade as a FOG. He probably has the stone tied to some part of his anatomy with a piece of green 550 cord.

[Smokin Joe]

I have always used a diamond rod about 4 inches long. Hasen't failed me yet. I was even able to put an edge on a splitting maul, not razor sharp but sharp enough to shave the hair on your arm. It took me about 3 hours but I was board as hell. I can't remember the name of the manufactor but I will post some pictures in a few.

[Smokin Joe]

Not Reaper quality but you get the idea

[Bill Harsey]

Smokin Joe, Those work good. I use the small flat plastic handled diamond sharpeners all the time around here on the bench and in the field. For bench work I can chamfer edges of hardened steel, touch up carbide milling cutters, drill bits and other small jobs by hand. More on that to follow.

[Ambush Master]

On the ceramics, soak them in Clorox or scrub them with a Scotchbrite Pad or toothbrush and Chlorine Scouring Powder (Comet) to clean the metal from the pores. I also found that a plastic bag of clorox suspended in an ultrasonic cleaner really expedited the process.

[Bill Harsey]

My field experience comes from logging, hunting and fishing. All involve activities far from a dry comfortable shop and usually an edged tool is involved.
You guys get a lot farther from the shop than I do so here is PART ONE:- As a knifemaker I have long worked at testing various steels, heat treats and sharpening methods to arrive at what works best for my knife owners. I am not alone in this, much of this testing was with my peers and done in public in front of many in the knife industry. For several years I helped put on the OKCA Knife Steel Seminars each April in conjunction with the Oregon Knife Show and was a featured speaker. Knives get dull, that's a fact of life.
The best steels on this planet can be dulled by something. There is no such thing as a dull proof steel. We use the best steel we can get our hands on but edge work will still be needed at some point.

To understand how to sharpen in the field, let me try to explain how I sharpen under ideal conditions first.
At the bench in the shop I use a Norton two sided stone about 10 inches long. The fine side is Norton Fine India, about 320 mesh aluminum oxide and that's what I use the most. For game work this stone will put an edge on a knife that will both cut the best and last the longest. Under magnification this edge looks like a row of very fine saw teeth coming from each side.
There are many different kinds of sharp and not all of them are good for us. An example of "sharp but not good" is a fine polished true razor edge like on a scalpel. This edge has very high intial sharpness but gets dull very fast because there is no "tooth" to the edge like we get with the 320 mesh stone. This is diminished edge endurance due to structure from finish.
The first thing I do prior to sharpening is anchor the stone to the bench so it doesn't slide while sharpening. Next I find the WD-40 or even better, some kerosene. This is to keep the shavings of steel abraded from the knife from sticking to the stone.
If I have a dull knife, the edge, under the microscope may look smooth, worn, chipped, rolled over and just plain rounded off, depending on how the steel failed. All steel will fail under the right conditions.
As The Reaper said, we have to remove steel to re-establish two clean planes coming together from each side to form the sharpened bevels.
I use both my hands on the knife, one on the back of the blade for pressure. For double edge knives, this means pay extra careful attention or at least keep a stack of real good bandaids nearby.
I set up my angle and push as if I'm trying to take a shaving off the surface of the stone. I do not change angle for the backstroke and return the knife on the stone.
This is an abrasive process and unless we are sharpening straight razors on soft (fast sharpening) stones and strops, cutting on both the push and pull is ok. The key is keeping the same angle without having to relocate the edge for every stroke. When we have taken enough steel off the edge to bring the sharpening bevels back together from each side, this can be perceived by feeling for the "wire edge".
The "wire edge' is steel that is tough enough to not break free of the end of the blade but is no longer part of the solid edge. re-read this last sentence several times
You can feel this by rubbing your finger tip from the master bevel outward off the edge. Do this from each side and you may feel the burr from one side only.

How we remove this burr, or wire edge determines how sharp the knife starts out. Do it again
If you bend the burr back and forth until it breaks off this will make a series of little flat spots on the most outward part of the cutting edge and this is not as sharp as this knife can be!.
I remove the burr by barely increasing the sharpening angle ever so slightly (picking the spine of the blade a bit higher off the stone) and taking a light wispy stroke on the stone, alternating sides. Depending on the alloy of steel and the heat treat this may leave little strands of steel on the stone when the wire edge comes off. This edge should just shave hair and cut difficult materials aggressively.
Greenhat is doing the same thing when he uses the small ceramic stick to finish his knife. ON TO THE FIELD!

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
I do not change angle for the backstroke and return the knife on the stone....cutting on both the push and pull is ok.

You see, I learn something new every day.

Thank you Mr. Harsey! Great input to a great thread.

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

I was biting my lip, thanks Reaper. Just so I have it very clear, you push, then pull without turning the blade over (on the same edge)? Seems that would certainly help maintain the angle. It will also make the Emerson a snap, since the edge is one-sided sort of.

[ktek01]

If Mr Harsey made a knife sharpening video I would buy it, I havent got a clue what Im doing and it would probably help me a lot to actually see it being done properly.

[BadMuther]

I'm in the same boat as Ktek.

Are the lansky sharpeners necessarily bad? It's the only thing I can sharpen a knife with.

My first knife was a Camillus Mk2 KBAR that I got from a SEAL that used it in Vietnam. I did more to ruin that knife with my attempts at sharpening it then anything else. :rolleyes: It's crazy how much metal I took off that thing, and all I did was make it as dull as a butterknife.

[Bill Harsey]

I just remembered, some of you guys pride yourself on being kinda resourceful.
This is a good thing however when I mentioned kerosene for the sharpening stone, I meant plain old lamp oil kerosene. This doesn't mean that I recommend you use the stuff from both the fixed and rotor winged fuel oil dispensers you may be in proximity of.
This stuff has more volatile organic compounds added and is probably not good to breath if you don't have to.


FOR FIELD SHARPENING I change gears pretty fast. I to use a different approach than in the shop to get the same result, much as many of you already do. I use the now common diamond sharpeners that are small and lightweight.
Here is how I sharpen when away from the shop.

Hold the knife stationary and move the sharpening stone. Seated is best so I can brace my knife holding arm on a leg. Do not stick knife in leg.

I work the edge of the knife with the diamond stone like I am using a file. The important step here is to look and see what the stone is doing on the edge.

Your sharpening stone usually makes a slightly brighter fresh mark on the edge when you start. This is when you make the adjustments by feel to set up the angle you want to sharpen at.

You can see where your sharpening while your working. At the bench we have to stop, take the knife off the stone and turn it over to see what was done. Advantage, Field Sharpening.

When sharpening you have to keep the same angle to get a knife sharp. This means doing the same thing until it's done, not changing the angle of stone until it sharpens the edge.

This is why thicker knives are harder to sharpen than thin knives- there is more steel to remove.

[Bill Harsey]

NousDefionsDoc,
You got it, I push and pull the blade a number of times on one side only, then turn the knife over and do the other side. This gets a lot of work done fast. I have to be smart enough to watch and feel what I'm doing so I don't do too much.
WOOBIE MASTER-
Lansky's are great, some of the sharpest edges I've ever seen customers do are with these. you could do surgical instruments with them if you could get the jig clamped on. I have one around here somewhere but it's too slow for me to set up and use and seems hard to do big blades with.
The reason I'm talking about hand held diamond stones for "field" use is they are very small and light, and don't care how hard the steel is.

If possible, carry at least Medium and Fine Diamond "stick". Using the Medium will save time by getting more done faster, then finish with the Fine. For hard work, you have a using edge using just the Medium.

Take for example the steel CPM S-30V, it has enough vanadium to form vanadium carbides. These vanadium carbides are harder than the aluminum oxide used to make sharpening stones but are valuable in that they add measurably to the edge holding when cutting tough materials.

Chris Reeve and I focused the heat treat on the Yarborough knife for maximum toughness with good edge holding. This knife is produced from the CPM S-30V.
This way we can sharpen the Yarborough knife on a normal stone and still have the edge holding abrasive resistance gained with the vanadium carbides.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I just tried your field technique on my Leatherman blade with the DMT pocket butterfly thing. I actually sharpened my knife! I will continue to practice (I have an old Gerber Mark II that has never been sharpened) before I start thinking I have it down, but you might have just achieved a miracle!

Thanks so much.

Announcer - "Tired of blistering your hands trying to cut tape with a dull knife? Think you're the only 43 year-old medic that can't sharpen a knife better than your kid? Been stabbed by Gs with more knives than you've managed to sharpen? Call the Bill Harsey Distance Learning Center and ask for 'Knife Sharpening for Dummies'! Call now! Call now!"

A testimonial from a satisfied student:
"Now I don't have to be embarrassed in front of my friends by having to saw on a piece of 550 cord to cut it. Thanks to the Bill Harsey Knife Sharpening School for Dummies, I can make people believe I actually know what I'm doing!"

LOL

[Bill Harsey]

Thanks!!!!!!! That just made my whole year. Bill

[BadMuther]

Thanks Bill.


I actually carried small medic scissors in my gear to avoid the embarrassment of trying to saw through stuff with a dull blade.

Prolly why I like spydercos so much!! :p

[Solid]

Lol NDD, that endorsement was priceless!:D

[Smokin Joe]

Bill,

When you say the wire edge...do you mean were the edge has rolled over or is burred?

No wonder I can't use a sharpening stone to save my life.

I always thought I had a piece of crap stone, also why I always used a diamond stone.

I always used a standard stone with a drop of CLP (A.K.A. break free) and circle montion starting from hilt moving to tip. Then flip the blade over and move from tip to hilt, but I could never get a good edge until I used a diamond stone.

[Sacamuelas]

Thanks Sir. I just did all my wife's Henckel kitchen knives. I was much more successful at keeping a constant angle with your described forward/backward without switching sides of the blade technique. Old dad never taught me I could do it that way back in the day...

I was knife sharpening disfunctional as well. I had to buy the lansky diamond kit because of it.

Great thread.

[lrd]

This is a great thread. I need to do my kitchen knives.

Mr. Harsey,

How do I sharpen a partially serated edge in the field?

[Bill Harsey]

Jawbreaker Sir, Great job sharpening! Nothing wrong with the Lansky, it's an awesome rig. You guys are making me proud because your going out and trying. My usual advice to folks who want to try a new way to sharpen is, start with your least favorite knives first, dig deep in the kitchen drawer and you'll find something. Sharpening is a learned skill and you'll just get better each time you do it again. I sharpen standing in the same place at the same bench with the same stone. Judging blade angle becomes natural because I don't have to adjust for other factors. Bill

[Bill Harsey]

Dear lrd, You asked a great question, How to sharpen a partially serrated blade in the field.
First please know I'll answer this question and you will get a very serviceable sharp edge back but it won't be quite as acutely sharp as most of them come from the factory but it will have better edge endurance.
Spyderco is the modern re-inventor of the serrated blade. I like those people and they deserve credit for the innovations they brought to the worlds knife industry.
I get a number of Spyderco serrations in my shop for sharpening.

FIRST,
The advantages of the serrated edge is it's acute sharpness and aggressive cutting due to it's extremely acute bevel angle.
Also why I think they are so popular is that when real hard stuff is cut with it and the edge is abused, it is dulled in a selective manner leaving some part of the serrations that can still cut.
The gullets (valleys) between points stay sharp because they are protected by the points which usually dull first. This is what makes this type of edge seem to stay sharp longer. Spyderco does very good work.

Sharpening Serrations- Most serrations are ground in from one side only.
The "Yarborough" knife we make for the men of the Untied States Army Special Forces is a different kind of serration. This is a Chisel Point serration, this designed to cut very tough materials and be resharpened perfectly using the same angle as the main edge and at the same time. Just ignore the serrations and sharpen the entire length of the blade.
The reason I bring this up is what I'm about to describe applies more to the Spyderco type serrations.

With apologies to Sal Glesser, founder of Spyderco:
I sharpen the Spyderco type here in the shop just like you will do in the field. I turn the knife over to the side opposite the serrations being ground in from and establish a fine bevel on the back of the serration with a hand held stone.

Match this bevel to your main edge and it should work great. This will resharpen both the points and gullets of that edge. It will also be a stronger edge thus holding up to more hard work better. I stated before they may not be factory sharp but you'll be surprised how sharp they come back up. Some of you are good at going in the front of the serrated grind with shaped stones and matching the initial grind plunge. I don't have that kind of patience. Does this help? Please advise. Bill

[CPTAUSRET]

Great thread, great information. Thank you Mr Harsey:

Terry

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by The Reaper
NOTE: Sharpening knives is dangerous and should not be attempted without adequate professional training and safety gear. Avoid cutting yourself, or others, as well as treasured items. Knives may inflict serious injuries, even when dull. Attempt sharpening at your own risk.

Outstanding! :D

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Outstanding! :D

I would have settled for;

"The handling of sharp objects is not advised for the intellectually challenged."

Team Sergeant

[NousDefionsDoc]

Stupidity is no excuse.

[lrd]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Does this help? Please advise. Bill Bill,

It helps a lot. I figured there had to be a better way than working it on my hook sharpener. :)

Thanks,
Lisa

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Stupidity is no excuse.

You don't follow court decisions here much any more, do you?:D

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by The Reaper
You don't follow court decisions here much any more, do you?:D

TR

The Blade is judge, jury and executioner. The blade accepts no procedural errors. LOL.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
The Blade is judge, jury and executioner. The blade accepts no procedural errors. LOL.

You have my vote for Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. :)

[TF Kilo]

Ahem... figured since I hold a good sharp blade near and dear to me.. Might I recommend tossing a Gatco sharpener into your deployment box?

It's almost a priesthood and an order to be able to sharpen a knife well, especially in this day and age where everyone's so prone to want to push a button rather than chance a close encounter with those who wish harm on us.

The varying stones of the kit allow you to either completey reshape the edge you already have, or refinish it, or put the touches back onto a blade who's been neglected due to one thing or another.

[Bill Harsey]

Thanks for mentioning GATCO, The owner is a great guy who makes great stuff. I'll have to check out their sharpening rig based on your recommendation. Your very correct about trying to keep a knife as sharp as possible, even if you have to cut some rope or webbing very fast in an emergency this attention to sharpening will have paid off.

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Your very correct about trying to keep a knife as sharp as possible, even if you have to cut some rope or webbing very fast in an emergency this attention to sharpening will have paid off.

And sometimes they get close enough to stick their knives in you...It is of equitable benefit to have a sharp blade to reciprocate with:

Terry

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by CPTAUSRET
And sometimes they get close enough to stick their knives in you...It is of equitable benefit to have a sharp blade to reciprocate with:

Terry

LOL - "equitable benefit" "reciprocate"

Missus Nacy Home Schooling the Old Warrior Cap?:D

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
LOL - "equitable benefit" "reciprocate"

Missus Nacy Home Schooling the Old Warrior Cap?:D



Hey Brother, I thought you would get a chuckle out of that one.

And yes miss Nancy is educating me, slowly but surely.

Terry

[Razor]

Originally posted by CPTAUSRET
And sometimes they get close enough to stick their knives in you...It is of equitable benefit to have a sharp blade to reciprocate with:

Terry

And when they do, SOP is to attack the getaway vehicle, right? ;)

[CPTAUSRET]

INDUBITABLY!

[CSB]

I realize I'm late to this post, but here's my $.02 worth:

1 - Lube it with oil, at least wet it, as a last resort spit on it, just never do it dry.

And that applies to sharpening knives too.

2 - I mostly use a Smith oilstone, but have a few other stones of various grits and fineness, depending on whether I'm doing a pocket knife, kitchen knife, machete, etc.

3 - I generally go with the "fine angle for fine blades, blunt angle for axes", but overall I use 22 1/2 degrees. Not that there is anything magic about 22 1/2 degrees, just that it is 1/2 of a 45 degree angle, or 1/2 of 1/2 of a 90 degree angle, and that seems to be easy to hold so I don't build a rounded edge by rolling the blade as I draw it down the stone.

4 - I am a firm beliver that a good blade and stone combination will "talk" to you as you draw the blade down the stone; and you can "feel it " when you are doing it right. The smooth "swis -s -s -s -sh" and the even feel of the resistance of the blade the full length of the stone tells you when you are right. A gritty "KA - KA - KA" tells you that you are cutting too much (or need to wash accumulated grit off the stone and free up the pores); and an uneven "Swis - s h .. KA ... swis -s sh .. cur" means you are probably rolling the knife and exposing a different section of the blade to the stone during the pass.

As a test, try stroking the blade down the stone with your eyes closed, listening to the sound. (Best if the stone is mounted on the work table or held on the underside). You don't really need to push down hard, let the stone do the work.

Wipe off the blade and stone often, and test in a fingernail. (Rest the blade under it's own weight on your fingernail, it should slightly dig it and resist side to side movement).

[Bill Harsey]

Holy Crap, I resign! CSB has it nailed. WELL SAID SIR! I knew you guys are too smart for me. That's it I'm done here, see ya over at the beer board.

[TF Kilo]

CPTUSARET:

People make fun of me for my huge 12" blade tanto. I just smile. Don't think a leatherman is what you want in a knife fight.

[brownapple]

Originally posted by TF Kilo
CPTUSARET:

People make fun of me for my huge 12" blade tanto. I just smile. Don't think a leatherman is what you want in a knife fight.

I want a 1911 in a knife fight..

[CPTAUSRET]

Originally posted by TF Kilo
CPTUSARET:

People make fun of me for my huge 12" blade tanto. I just smile. Don't think a leatherman is what you want in a knife fight.

Roger:

What Greenhat said:

But sometimes you run out of ammo for projectile weapons...

Terry

[Bill Harsey]

I made this thread into a sticky because it contains good basic information on sharpening.

Thanks for all the other questions about sharpening here at ProfessionalSoldiers.com.

[PiterM]

OK, let me show you one of my ideas, which applies to hollow-handle knives I use (by Chris Reeve, MK.VI in this case). As you can see that was really WINTER when I've taken these shots last year (I stopped using Maxpedition mid of this year). Snow, snow, snow… so if it works in these conditions it must work also in the middle of summer. BTW, A2 holds the edge very well even in 20 C below zero. Checked!

First of all the content of the handle... I ALWAYS carry two pieces of adhesive bandage in the handle of my one-piecer(s). I prefer my knives to be sharp so it’s always good to be prepared for the unlucky moment. Than I usually carry there about foot-and-a-half of paracord, which I use as a lanyard when chopping. And I carry there also two small sharpening sticks (coarse and fine) which you can find in Gatco pocket sharpener. Each of them is covered in paracord outer “tubing” for protection... it fits perfectly!

OK, back to field sharpening. You can imagine that sharpening knife of this size on such a small hand-held sharpening stick is neither convenient nor safe. However with your knife you can create easily a VERY SAFE sharpener that is more than enough to restore the edge in the field... well under 3 minutes! Just take a 3/4 inch stick, whittle a bit to have a flat area of 0,5 x 3 inches. Than cut a shallow, 2-inch “V” groove using tip of your blade, just like that one in the picture

Than put the stick in the groove... and… start sharpening (and follow with fine rod if you like). Just an idea... works for me.

[Bill Harsey]

Piter,
Very interesting field craft on the sharpener. Thank you for showing us the pictures!

I'm going to have to try that because I always hand hold the small ceramic rods but I think you can get more work done your way. Just don't let your knife get so dull you can't carve the wood.

[Mud Puppy]

Mr Harsey,

What is the best way to sharpen a tanto style blade? The junction of the 2 blade angles always seem to be an issue.

In the past I have treated it like 2 different knives. Sharpening the main edge and if needed (rarely) the short side. Depending on the size of the stone determined whether I moved the knife or the stone. I would finish with crock sticks.

I have a new knife (T2) and I want to start it out right.

Thanks for your assistance,
Mud Puppy

[Cincinnatus]

Piter,

Nice idea.

[Bill Harsey]

Mr Harsey,

In the past I have treated it like 2 different knives. Sharpening the main edge and if needed (rarely) the short side. Depending on the size of the stone determined whether I moved the knife or the stone. I would finish with crock sticks.

Mud Puppy
Mud Puppy,
That's exactly how I do it, treating it like two distinct blades when it comes to the geometry of the sharpening.
This is also exactly how the swordmakers of Japan did and continue to do.

Try not using the crock sticks and take advantage of the fine tooth left from the sharpening stone. This will greatly increase your edge endurance.

The CPM S-30V doesn't generate quite as much of a "wire edge' as other steels and will come up sharper with less work (ok, fewer steps...) than other steels.

[POO]

What thoughts do you guys have on the MOD CQD knives?

[Bill Harsey]

What thoughts do you guys have on the MOD CQD knives?
Is this a sharpening question?

[Rob_0811]

Some people have told me about stropping a knife on cardboard with some sort of a polishing compound as opposed to using a stone or ceramic sticks.

Mr. Harsey, does that sound like something that would work or is the stropping more for a quick hone of an edge versus actually sharpening a blade?


It seems the cardboard would be less bulky and obviously lighter than a stone, which would be great, since I'm a nasty leg.

thanks,

Rob

[Bill Harsey]

Some people have told me about stropping a knife on cardboard with some sort of a polishing compound as opposed to using a stone or ceramic sticks.

Mr. Harsey, does that sound like something that would work or is the stropping more for a quick hone of an edge versus actually sharpening a blade?


It seems the cardboard would be less bulky and obviously lighter than a stone, which would be great, since I'm a nasty leg.

thanks,

Rob
Rob,
Stropping is a way to fine finish a blade by removing the burr from previous correctly done sharpening steps.
Then stropping with the very fine grits called stropping compound can be used to maintain that edge until it's time for the blade to be returned to the stones.

The most common use for this type of sharpening is/was the straight razor which responds to this treatment because the edge is so thin there is very little steel to remove.
Stropping is also used to fine finish wood working tools like chisels and planer blades to the point that the finished cut is smoother than anything sanding good produce.
The best razors and wood working tools share one thing in common, a low alloy high carbon steel of fine grain that is very hard. The hardness of these steels aids in the ability of the strop to do it's work because the "wire edge' abrades or polishes off clean.
These steels in the heat treated condition they come in are too brittle for hard field use.

In any given blade steel, the "stropped" or polished edge has surprisingly short cutting endurance and gives up easy in difficult materials. Once the fine polished edge is "wiped off" the knife quits cutting well in anything.

I do know of manufacturers who use a series of cardboard "grinding wheels" loaded with fine abrasive compounds (high speed spinning strops) for final sharpening but the edges I describe how to do here will long outlast them in the field.

[Bill Harsey]

Stropping will not restore a blade that has been used hard resulting in dings, micro chips and flat spots on the edge.

Fine ceramic rods and sticks will somewhat keep an edge straightened out and do some very fine abrading at the same time. Butchers call this "standing the edge up" and they use a steel for this use, chefs do the same thing but again this applies to knives ground very thin made of steels that are not as tough or hard as the modern steels we use in tactical blades.


The reason for using the toughest steels possible in tactical knives is that these things have to be built for many emergency uses that may include cutting other metals like sheet, wire or banding straps and prying with the users full strength to try and break stuff.
To make knives that hold up to this type of work, they have to also be just a little thicker at the edge and this makes a difference in how we sharpen them.

Your pocket knife will probably be kept with a finer edge than your tactical or field fixed blade.

Try the stropping and tell us how it works.

[HOLLiS]

I have received my stone from True Grit today, now the big important part, how to keep my fingers attached to my hand, while making a blade sharp.

I have been enjoying this thread, I have lots of "Sharpening aids" but they are seem to work so so. I had a friend teach me how to sharpen, he was a Barber before he enlisted, and KIA in 17 Sept '69, and actually succeeded to doing so. But over time, I forgotten, and reading this thread has helped me to remember, I hope.. So in a few days, If I am typing a Job well done, you will know I have succeeded. If my daughter types it, well......... you know...

[Bill Harsey]

Hollis,
Good news on the bench stone.

Learning what a good edge looks like when done on the bench stone helps us understand what it has to look like upon completion when using the field expedient sharpening rigs.

[Bill Harsey]

...is a frame of mind whenever the knife is in your hand.

Yes I'm stating the obvious and will continue, be careful when handling these knives no matter what the edge condition. Whoever coined the phrase "a dull knife will cut you worse than a sharp one" hasn't been cut with something really sharp.

In my work as a knifemaker I learned how to make knives very sharp before learning how to handle very sharp knives. I've been cut a few times, couple of those resulted in scheduled surgical procedures to re-attach tendons. Avoid this if possible. Much down time involved.

Using sharp edged tools in hard use and emergency situations requires habits learned before you get there, just like firearms handling. The best advice I have is:

Think at all times where the blade is going to go when you apply the horsepower to the cut.

Watch and Think about your holding hand and arm, this is what will probably get hurt first if the blade breaks thru or slips off what your cutting. Do NOT cut toward your hand or body no matter how much control you think you've got. Murphy likes knives too.

Try and cut tough materials, if possible, on some kind of surface rather than up in the air. You have more control this way.

If the knife isn't cutting in something very tough, Think before using more horsepower. That instant of thinking might keep you from getting cut.

Keep your folding knives cleaned out, especially in and around the locking mechanisms. Grit, pocket lint, organic debris, sand, mud and stuff can all build up over time and cause a lock to not lock the blade in the full open position.

Most of this cleaning can be done with a toothpick or sliver of wood. It's not hard to do but please do it.

Final note, keep some good band aids around anyway.

[The Reaper]

Great advice, Bill.

Used any of the DermaBond yet?:munchin

TR

[Bill Harsey]

Great advice, Bill.

Used any of the DermaBond yet?:munchin

TR
Thanks and not yet but I keep it close by all the time in my cut kit which includes a one hand use tourniquet provided by Swatsurgeon
(oh ye of little faith, or really smart).

[Bill Harsey]

I've seen very little published about chopping safety with a knife until the Bladesmiths stated holding chopping competitions to test blades.

Some things I've personally experienced that seem to defeat my own common sense when chopping are:

Fatigue, when the hand and arm gets tired I can't hold on to the knife as well. I've lost a machete a couple times while cutting brush without resting when tired. Got lucky, didn't get cut but should have been.
The closer we get to "done", the harder we try and that's when Murphy shows up to see where he can help. This rule is compounded x100 when you have an audience standing around seeing how well you do.

Think about where the blade will swing when it misses, goes all the way thru or bounces out of the cut. Yes your leg will stop the knife just fine but it might ruin a good pair of pants.

Sweaty or wet hands can make bad things happen too. Go just a little slower and be sure of your grip.

This rule applies to swinging an Axe too, if your splitting wood that's standing on end on the ground, be sure to drop your hands down (without releasing the handle) as the Axe goes thru to keep the blade from rotating thru the cut and ruining good pants or boots.
This is geometry, if your hands stay high, then the bit of the Axe can rotate into your body if it breaks thru the cut. If your hands lower as the cut is made, it will only hit dirt.
Same thought process is used for chopping when cutting down or bucking timber with an axe. In general, the shorter the handle the more the user is exposed to getting cut.

Try not to hit the dirt either or else woodsman like Moroney will have to choose which comment is appropriate.

Have other folks stand to your side when doing chopping stuff, not directly in front of or behind if it can be helped.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Try not to hit the dirt either or else woodsman like Moroney will have to choose which comment is appropriate..

This is a family forum, I cannot repeat what I have said, would have said, even if I first said it, and them said something else before I wanted to say what was really necessary to catch someone's attention. Even if I was talking to John Kerry:D

Basically I never cut anything on the ground when I am splitting wood. If I wanted to ding up my splitter I would ask the Team Sergeant to split .45 caliber slugs on it by firing at it with his pistol. The log that I am going to split is elevated usually on a large cut log firmly seated on the ground and cut square and flat so that the log to be split sits well balanced so I do not have to do a series of rotations trying to find the best splitting angle. Also I do not use an ax to split wood but a maul/wood spittler with a long handle. I do not want to dull the blade of my double bit using it to split wood.

And you thought I didn't read this forum:lifter

[Bill Harsey]

Basically I never cut anything on the ground when I am splitting wood. If I wanted to ding up my splitter I would ask the Team Sergeant to split .45 caliber slugs on it by firing at it with his pistol. The log that I am going to split is elevated usually on a large cut log firmly seated on the ground and cut square and flat so that the log to be split sits well balanced so I do not have to do a series of rotations trying to find the best splitting angle. Also I do not use an ax to split wood but a maul/wood spittler with a long handle. I do not want to dull the blade of my double bit using it to split wood.

And you thought I didn't read this forum:lifter

Jack, Good advice on setting up for splitting. Your right about splitting with an axe, especially a double bit because it's very a very thin blade made for cutting across grain into standing timber. A single bit axe is usually thicker in the pole thus aiding splitting if it must be used for such. I've gotten used to making my single bit axes do everything but also reach for one of the heavy mauls for splitting, then hand it to my son. :D
If I had only one axe to pack into the woods for all non-logging uses, it would be a single bit.

Never doubted for a moment that you read all here, just had to check.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

If I had only one axe to pack into the woods for all non-logging uses, it would be a single bit.



Agree bit also like C-4 as a bonus item. That way you also get great kindling:D

[Bill Harsey]

Some full disclosure here,

I get frustrated all the time when I'm sharpening for various reasons like, "this isn't going fast enough" or "crap, I really got this steel too hard" or "damn, I missed the sharpening bevel angle" or "Sh*t, my fingers just slipped along the top edge of this double sided blade".

Sharpening is always this way for me, the key is to keep trying, every time until the job is done.

It's not all champagne and caviar around here either.

[mugwump]

Some full disclosure here,

I get frustrated all the time when I'm sharpening for various reasons like, "this isn't going fast enough" or "crap, I really got this steel too hard" or "damn, I missed the sharpening bevel angle" or "Sh*t, my fingers just slipped along the top edge of this double sided blade".

Sharpening is always this way for me, the key is to keep trying, every time until the job is done.

It's not all champagne and caviar around here either.

Hmmm....timely. I was just looking at the Chef's Choice 130 electric sharpener. I will now instead, in the words of Lone Watie, "endeavor to persevere."

[The Reaper]

Hmmm....timely. I was just looking at the Chef's Choice 130 electric sharpener. I will now instead, in the words of Lone Watie, "endeavor to persevere."

Great quote, from one of my favorite movies.

TR

[mugwump]

Great quote, from one of my favorite movies.

TR

The wife brought home...I can't even remember the title, I've pushed it out of my mind...the gay cowboy movie. Made it halfway through and I couldn't take it any more -- I had to watch Outlaw Josie Wales and Ulzana's Raid back-to-back.

[Bill Harsey]

Mugwump,
While your working at sharpening...
I just hand sharpened a batch of knives today on the stone and noticed a small detail (that I've always dealt with as a matter of standard procedure but never articulated before) that may be of help:
When you get some small steel chips coming off the blade onto the stone use more WD-40 and a paper towel to wipe them off. Then put more WD-40 on the stone and keep going.

If one continues sharpening with these hard steel chips on the stone they, being the same hardness as the blade, make little micro flat spots on your edge as you run over them again and again.

[Endorphin Rush]

Some full disclosure here,

I get frustrated all the time when I'm sharpening for various reasons like, "this isn't going fast enough" or "crap, I really got this steel too hard" or "damn, I missed the sharpening bevel angle" or "Sh*t, my fingers just slipped along the top edge of this double sided blade".

Sharpening is always this way for me, the key is to keep trying, every time until the job is done.

It's not all champagne and caviar around here either.


Mr. Harsey...

So comforting to hear you admit that. I began to believe that I was going to require a ride on the short bus to a sharpening school for the gifted.

I've only used my Spyderco Tri-Angle sharpener in the past. I haven't purchased the stones that you've mentioned yet, but I did try my DMT diamond whetstones recently and have had many trials and frustrations with them. I must say, though, that after much patient practice, I am able to get my knives to hair-popping sharpness finally. I can't imagine how these things will cut when I finally break down and buy the stones that you suggest.

This is good info...thanks!!!

[mugwump]

Mugwump,
While your working at sharpening...
I just hand sharpened a batch of knives today on the stone and noticed a small detail (that I've always dealt with as a matter of standard procedure but never articulated before) that may be of help:
When you get some small steel chips coming off the blade onto the stone use more WD-40 and a paper towel to wipe them off. Then put more WD-40 on the stone and keep going.

If one continues sharpening with these hard steel chips on the stone they, being the same hardness as the blade, make little micro flat spots on your edge as you run over them again and again.

Bill, thanks for this. After practicing on the kitchen knives I'm finally ready to sharpen my Uncle Ray's WWII KA-BAR. A while back, he asked me to put an edge onto it and pass it on to a young man in the field -- it's headed off to my Godson. It'll be hand delivered, that knife has soaked up a lot of history.

[Bill Harsey]

Bill, thanks for this. After practicing on the kitchen knives I'm finally ready to sharpen my Uncle Ray's WWII KA-BAR. A while back, he asked me to put an edge onto it and pass it on to a young man in the field -- it's headed off to my Godson. It'll be hand delivered, that knife has soaked up a lot of history.
That's a very honorable thing to do.



I've always said, it's "Mom, The American Flag, KA-BAR and Apple pie" in terms of things to never speak ill of.

[mugwump]

That's a very honorable thing to do.

I've always said, it's "Mom, The American Flag, KA-BAR and Apple pie" in terms of things to never speak ill of.

Ray was a very honorable and modest man who led a helluva good life. Many moons ago, I got smart enough to try to emulate him -- my life has gone a lot smoother since. :)

[Bill Harsey]

A few days ago I had some shop guests who asked to see me sharpen a knife. A brief search turned up no dull or damaged knives to sharpen so I pulled a scrapped, fully heat treated 4140 steel, .30 caliber rifle barrel from under the bench and put it in the vise.
Next I took a very good condition prototype 6.5 inch CPM S-30V blade and started taking thin shavings off the rifle barrel.
This wasn't damaging the blade enough to make sharpening difficult so the next step was to chop straight down into the rifle barrel putting a series of nice cuts across the top of the barrel steel and doing some visible damage to the blades sharpening bevel in the form of fine nicks and chips.

Now we had a knife that all agreed needed some sharpening.

The rifle barrel was taken out of the wood jawed vise and the Norton two sided stone was clamped into place. Using the medium Carborundum (silicon carbide, colored grey/black)) side of the stone, I oiled it up with WD-40 and started sharpening. Lots of WD-40 works well too.

The Norton Carborundum side cuts pretty quick and is a friable surface which means it breaks down fast continually exposing fresh sharp silicon carbide particle edges of the stone to your steel. This is also a good place to be very sure of your sharpening technique so you don't dig grooves in your stone.

After getting all but a single remaining micro chip sharpened out of the blade, the stone was turned over to the "Fine India" side and the final sharpening work finished resulting in a blade that would slice note book paper from top to bottom.

The sharpening took about 15 minutes which is a long time for a single blade but it showed my visiting dignitaries that a blade with real problems could be restored to it's original high sharpness by use of stones without having to use a belt grinder.

[Bill Harsey]

The correct term for the fast cutting Norton silicon carbide stone I use is, "Norton Crystolon, medium".

In 1893 a man named Edward Goodrich Acheson invented and recieved the United States patent for the process by which silicon carbide is made, he then went on to invent and patent the oven that did this.
His patents are recognized as some of the most important patents resposible for the modern industrial age because these abrasives could cut hard steel to high accuracy in machine processes. The name of Mr. Achesons silicon carbide was "Carborundum".

Sometimes I get confused.

[wfraser]

Forgive me if I did not see this in the previous post but I thought I might run this by ya'll. Have any of ya'll used a street light bulb? I have a Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto that I carry everyday and the light bulb makes it razor sharp after a few hits. If anyone knows why this thing works please let me know. Thanks-

[The Reaper]

Forgive me if I did not see this in the previous post but I thought I might run this by ya'll. Have any of ya'll used a street light bulb? I have a Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto that I carry everyday and the light bulb makes it razor sharp after a few hits. If anyone knows why this thing works please let me know. Thanks-

Because the glass is harder than the steel.:rolleyes:

TR

[Team Sergeant]

Cold Steel Recon 1 tanto

There's your problem right there, you need a real knife and not a airsoft childrens knife.:rolleyes:

Team Sergeant

[82ndtrooper]

Because the glass is harder than the steel.:rolleyes:

TR

But, but, Rosie said that steel doesn't melt, ever in the history of steel making. :p

[wfraser]

The Recon 1 ain't too shabby if you ask me. I watched the field test video that Cold Steel published and they sold me on it. I haven't tried any of the test to check the reliabilty of it though. It has superior cutting power and sharpens rather easily. I wouldn't put it in the airsoft class...

[The Reaper]

The Recon 1 ain't too shabby if you ask me. I watched the field test video that Cold Steel published and they sold me on it. I haven't tried any of the test to check the reliabilty of it though. It has superior cutting power and sharpens rather easily. I wouldn't put it in the airsoft class...

I saw a video once on a 120 mpg carburetor insert. Looked real shiny.

I think I can get you a real deal on it if you are interested in buying the rights.

Seriously, I have a Cold Steel Trailmaster around here somewhere, and if I needed a visually impressive knife that cost less than $100, that might be one I would consider.

Sorry, but Lynn Thompson isn't selling me anything else.

IMHO, the Tanto point is not particularly effective, except visually. Kind of like shuriken.:rolleyes:

If I need a real knife that I could count on, I would look to Harsey, Reeve, or one of the other blademasters. You might want to look through this forum before proceeding. We are getting Mr. Harsey's sharpening thread off track.

Cold Steel is a decent budget product with a lot of hype.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

[82ndtrooper]

Here's Lynns latest attack on Mick Strider. Is this not slander ? Since it bears on the last four posts take a read, then back to Mr. Harsey's thread on field sharpening.

[Edited to remove link. TR]

[The Reaper]

Here we go.

Another diversion off topic.:rolleyes:

In regards to Lynn Thompson's comments, let me say that I have known Mick for more than five years.

In all of that time, he has been a gentleman and has kept his word. He has never claimed to be anything other than what he is. He has been generous, as well as honest to a fault. He has not denied his record, though I am sure that some of it has embarrassed him. Who among us has not done stupid things at the age he was when that occurred? Probably involved at least two of the three Ws. Would Lynn like to have all of the embarrasing moments from his past dredged up and posted on the internet by a competitor?

The popularity of his knife designs, distressing as they may be to Mr. Thompson, are not really Mick's fault, nor are they a crime in the free market economy we all enjoy, including Lynn.

Where has Mick claimed to be a combat vet? IIRC, he was a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment, though he was (as he freely admits) never tabbed or deployed to combat. Regardless, that makes him a Special Operations soldier.

To bring this up and post someone's past transgressions on a web site strike me as more of a statement about Mr. Thompson and his personality than Mick Strider's.

As far as going to Tactical Forums to get further info, that ranks right up there with getting my news from the National Enquirer. Very few people at that website have any tactical experience, and they create ad hominem personal attacks when confronted by anyone with a differing opinion, as some members here have discovered the hard way. No thanks.

Hope that clears things up for you.

TR

[Bill Harsey]

TR,
Thank you for removing the link to CS. I agree with everything you say regarding Mick Strider whom I've known for some years now.
Yes Mick Strider and Cold Steel is a legitimate topic but please not in this sharpening thread.

First, any knife at all is better than no knife. I do not make judgements about what knife someone has to work with but I do have preferences based on performance, especially when that knife is life critical equipment in an emergency.

The purpose of this sharpening thread is to give the knife user a chance to sharpen whatever he has on him.

wfraser, I've never handled a street light bulb. Are you talking about the part that glows or the cover?

[Indian]

[QUOTE=Bill Harsey]
The purpose of this sharpening thread is to give the knife user a chance to sharpen whatever he has on him. QUOTE]

I have tried just about everything for sharpening that has come done the pike, including everything posted in this most excellent thread, on many knives of various steels, styles and uses.

Bench sharpening has always been with my carborundum stone.

I've had mixed results field sharpening with diamond sharpeners. I'm talking about the 1" wide or folding types, which I like because they are light and easy to carry. I've gotten better results with EZE-Lap than with DMT sharpeners. It seems like the perforated face of the DMT sharpener gives me trouble and does not seem to cut as fast as the EZE-Lap. Could this be a result of poor technique or does the steel face make it just take longer with the DMT?

The 2nd question is wether it is worthwhile finishing off sharpening with an extra fine 1200 grit diamond, or is it better to stop with the 600 grit, considering the value of the "micro-teeth" left on the final edge? I used to finish with a steel, but am getting away from that.

I don't recall seeing this answered previously in this thread. Apologies if I missed it somewhere.

[Bill Harsey]

Indian,
Light and easy to carry are exactly why I recommend the diamond stones for field use.
My first rule of noting a design issue (complaint) is to, if possible, take it to the manufacturer first. I have spoken to the past owner of DMT Diamond stones about the holes and was told I was the first person to ever bring this up. Thank you for noticing this.
I have also had concerns with the holes in the DMT sharpeners. They still cut good but when going around a curved edge I think the edge tends to possibly hit the front of the holes and not the surface. I have to be very careful holding my angle to avoid this. The DMT products are good stuff but I'd also like to see them in "solid" coating.

Do not go too fine with the final edge finishing, this takes away the aggressive micro saw tooth edge that provides the best cutting in field conditions.
This is why I use the Norton Fine India stone to finish on, it is a 320 mesh particle size surface.

[John A. Larsen]

Like Bill I have a Norton Med/Fine India mounted on my workbench, a gift from a CW3 that I sharpened a Argentinian short sword for. I also cut into the stone and pull back and use lamp oil that Bill sold me on some years ago. The final edge with a Norton Fine India is about the best I have found. Some years ago Sal Glesser, Spyderco knives, was amazed when Wayne Goddard used one of his knives to slice through a piece of rope like it was butter. The microscopic teeth the Norton Fine India puts on the edge of your blade are just as Bill describes, an awesome cutting edge. But being truthfull, I do not use it so much anymore as I have to go downstairs, and have a EZE-Lap dual hone right at my desk, Medium Grit on one side, Super Fine on the other, folds like a BaliSong. I used to carry one of the very small EZE-LAPs in my E&E kit, but like the longer sharpening surface of the dual hone and it keeps my hand further from the edge of the blade. I also like it as I use a lot of my knives, or ones I am testing to prepare food, and no oil is needed for the EZE_LAP, and it is light. I carry it in my day pack everywhere I travel. I noticed BadMuther saying he could not sharpen his KaBar. Sometimes if you have a softer steel it is harder to sharpen them as the edge just seems to roll from one side to the other. On the other side I started with an Arkansas whetstone and could not sharpen my Ben Hibben Jungle Fighter, tried and tried. Problem was the Arkansas stone does not remove much steel, and I would get worried I was not doing it right and stop. When i switched to a Norton stone, no more problems.

[Indian]

Thanks for the response sirs. Sounds like I am doing the same thing as both of you, with the same stones, so I believe that indicates that I must continue to refine my technique. Probably the most important parts for me are patience and maintaining a constant, proper angle.

I also have found that lamp oil or kerosene works better on the Norton stones than WD-40. Back to reading.

Bob

[wfraser]

Mr. Harsey

Sorry for the late reply I just haven't check back recently. The part that I am talking about is the actual bulb out of a street light. It is about 6" in lenght and maybe 1" diameter. The only problem is the fact that it may break in the field or any ruff usage. I have purchased a few expensive sharpeners but none compare to the light bulb...go figure.

Before you go climb a pole, check with your local electrical service. They usally have tons of them. Thanks- Wilkes

[clapdoc]

If you can find one, an old glass coca-cola bottle will put a razor edge on a knife.

[wfraser]

Mr. Harsey,

The other day I had my Recon 1 out and my light bulb and could not get a edge on the knife. A friend of mine told me to try a car window...??

Well....I went and rolled my window down half way and started slicing away.
After a few minutes the blade became sharp. I have seen sharper however it did the trick and seemed field worthy.

If you get a chance give it a try and tell me what's your input. Thanks -

[The Reaper]

Mr. Harsey,

The other day I had my Recon 1 out and my light bulb and could not get a edge on the knife. A friend of mine told me to try a car window...??

Well....I went and rolled my window down half way and started slicing away.
After a few minutes the blade became sharp. I have seen sharper however it did the trick and seemed field worthy.

If you get a chance give it a try and tell me what's your input. Thanks -


That one is already up here, maybe in the Redneck Engineering thread if not this one.

Look at Post #9 on this thread.

TR

[Jeff Randall]

Here's another good primitive technique that requires no rocks, glass, commercial hones, etc. Find a small hardwood sapling about 2 inches in diameter and split it in two with your knife. Smooth the heartwood side down until you have a good flat surface. Take the point of your knife and make multiple small holes in the flat surface, then grind in a pasty mixture of sand and water. These improvised hones are slow but eventually become saturated with the gritty material and provide a decent pocket hone capable of touching up the edge of your blade. One thing to remember with this process is to stroke away from the blade so you don't gouge the wood. Any wire edges produced can be removed on a strop or smooth rock. These sharpening devices take some time to wear in but are really useful when nothing else is available. As a side note to this technique, primitive cultures used the same principle to drill holes in stone by using a fibrous stalk dipped in a paste of sand and water. Constantly adding grit to the hand drill and having a sincere amount of patience eventually punctured the rock.

Jeff

[Ambush Master]

Thanks Jeff, very interesting!!

[Bill Harsey]

Here's another good primitive technique that requires no rocks, glass, commercial hones, etc. Find a small hardwood sapling about 2 inches in diameter and split it in two with your knife. Smooth the heartwood side down until you have a good flat surface. Take the point of your knife and make multiple small holes in the flat surface, then grind in a pasty mixture of sand and water. These improvised hones are slow but eventually become saturated with the gritty material and provide a decent pocket hone capable of touching up the edge of your blade. One thing to remember with this process is to stroke away from the blade so you don't gouge the wood. Any wire edges produced can be removed on a strop or smooth rock. These sharpening devices take some time to wear in but are really useful when nothing else is available. As a side note to this technique, primitive cultures used the same principle to drill holes in stone by using a fibrous stalk dipped in a paste of sand and water. Constantly adding grit to the hand drill and having a sincere amount of patience eventually punctured the rock.

Jeff

This is good stuff. Thank you Jeff!

[MILDOT]

Bill,
Thanks for the extra bandaids the other day, they came in very handy. You will be happy to know that I sharpened 60 blades today without cutting myself...LOL. Took your advice and added a combined light and magnifier to the process. It worked out very well and we are doing the newspaper test on every blade.

Say hi to the folks for me.

Mil-Dot

[DanUCSB]

"a sincere amount of patience"

That is a fine turn of phrase.

[Bill Harsey]

Bill,
Thanks for the extra bandaids the other day, they came in very handy. You will be happy to know that I sharpened 60 blades today without cutting myself...LOL. Took your advice and added a combined light and magnifier to the process. It worked out very well and we are doing the newspaper test on every blade.

Say hi to the folks for me.

Mil-Dot

Your welcome.
Nice change to hand someone else a bandaid for once.
That's a lot of blades to do in one stand.
Newspaper works better for testing sharpness than ones arm. No, I won't put a smiley face here.
You are getting the edges extremely sharp too.

[voord05]

Since I am the new guy, playing "catch -up" on many of the posts adn this one seems to be at it end of the conversation...

I'll add this gem of information that was jokingly put out during a land nav class at the Q.

"Gentlemen; If you ever find yourself hopeless lost here or in any part of the world, take off you racksack. Pull out you field knife and shaping stone, begin to shapen your high speed knife... within minutes you well have a half dozen guys pop out of the wood works to let you how to do it better!"

enjoy gents!!

[Bill Harsey]

Since I am the new guy, playing "catch -up" on many of the posts adn this one seems to be at it end of the conversation...

I'll add this gem of information that was jokingly put out during a land nav class at the Q.

"Gentlemen; If you ever find yourself hopeless lost here or in any part of the world, take off you racksack. Pull out you field knife and shaping stone, begin to shapen your high speed knife... within minutes you well have a half dozen guys pop out of the wood works to let you how to do it better!"

enjoy gents!!

I'm going to write that in felt pen on the shop wall :D

Thank you.

[Team Sergeant]

That is funny as hell!

[Bill Harsey]

Here is a quick drawing I did to show what a dulled edge looks like in cross section and the material to be removed to restore sharpness.

[mark46th]

I ran a seafood plant for about 10 years where we hand cut our fish. We were a Japanese owned company so we used a Japanese made santoku knife. I can't remember what grade Stainless was used. I used to sharpen them using a belt sander with a 400 grit belt then buff them out on a jeweler's wheel. For lubricant, I used a mixture of 2 parts parafin with one part Crisco shortening melted together which I poured into loaf pans to make bricks. The procedure was to make 3 or four passes across the belt at a 30 degree angle on each side of the edge. Then make 5 or 6 passes over the buffing wheel on each side. The polishing was the key. The damn things came out as sharp as scalpels. You could literally touch the blades lightly and draw blood.

Out in the field, I carry a whetstone, using water to lube the plade when I skin out a pig. I use a 3 inch Case for field dressing and skinning them. Then a Sawzall to quarter them so they fit in the cooler...All hail the Sawzall!

[S.Gossman]

My two favorite sharpeners for field use are the Eze Lap Sportsmen diamond rod/brass handle and DMT two sided paddle sharpener, fine/super fine. With these two i can bring my edges back in no time. I strop on my pants leg.
Scott

[BearW]

I'm in the category of 'terrible knife sharpeners' as well. My problem is the technical know-how and just memorizing the angle at which the blade needs to be honed to for manual work.

Sometime i'll make a few passes each way, say ten a side-check the blade and it's worse than before.

I bought a cheapo- 17.99 "Redi Edge" sharpener which, if you've never seen it, has the same type of set up as a very small handheld kitchen block sharpener. It's only a few inches long and the diamond sharpener is built into a 2 sided whetstone, which i'm guessing is for re-conditioning the blade( of an ax, say) or some sort of manual work well above my level of expertise.

I usually lube the blade with a few drops of olive oil before and after. I prefer olive oil for CLP or other lubricants because though they may work better, they're not fit for consumption. If i want to slice bread, make a PB&J sandwich with my blade and it's something to think about. I've heard some use butter for just this reason but butter has high salt content and could rust the blade.

This seems like an older thread but maybe someone will stumble upon it and learn a thing or two as i just did.

Bear

[Bill Harsey]

BearW,

Did you read this whole thread?
Yes it takes some time and I am going to re-read everything I've written here to try and make it better.

Some thoughts on your post:
As I hope I've already stated, the purpose of any lube on a sharpening stone is to keep the blade particles that have been abraded off the edge while sharpening from sticking to the surface of the sharpening stone because said particles, as they load into the surface of the stone, keep it from working.

What I don't want stuff on my sharpening stones is something that is going to smell bad later.
Anything we lube a stone with can be wiped or washed off of a blade.

Personally I think a little WD-40 makes my sandwich taste better.

[BearW]

Mr. Harsey

Yes sir, i've read the whole thread, and you're right it was a bit painful to do by times-though not as painful as watching me try to sharpen a knife. Some of the posts jump around a bit but it's nothing a little determination can't me get through.

I appreciate your input of whetstone lube, i got a lot of good tips. I guess at the end of the day i can read all the posts and watch all the dummy-proof youtube videos i want but the only thing that will make me a better knife sharpen is more time sitting on my work bench with a knife in one hand and whetstone in the other. Practice. Practice Practice.

Thanks for the help, Mr. Harsey

Bear

[Bill Harsey]

Bear,
Your right, some of the posts here jump around a little bit and then some.

Get all the kitchen knives you own and stack them in order of least favorite to most important. Start sharpening the least favorite first and carefully work your way up. Get each knife sharp enough to slice newsprint.

Sharpening can't be that hard, knifemakers do it.

[Ironmike]

Goog intell.

[Streck-Fu]

Thank YOU!

I have read this whole thread 3 or 4 or more times trying to glean all the information and apply. I would practice a little and then come back a review certain posts and then try some more.

I am making progress, getting better, and making some knives sharp again.

I wanted to thank Bill for starting this thread, and all the others like Reaper and CSB who contributed.

Not only are my Wustof kitchen knives sharp again but I have put good edges on my pocket knives that haven't been properly sharpened in years. I have a straight edge Kershaw Blackout that, for the first time can go through paracord with a single gentle pull.
I have a Navy Mk3 dive knife that Navy Diver friend gave me years ago. That 440A steel has been a bitch in the past and I managed to get a good edge that knife as well.

Again, thanks to all the shared their knowledge and experiences.

Even using my simple Smith's Tristone (http://www.amazon.com/TRI-6-Arkansas-TRI-HONE-Sharpening-System/dp/B00062BIT4) bench system with WD-40 (thanks for that Bill. Works much better than 'honing oil') I was amazed with what I could get. After working the edge with the necessary grit stones, I would follow with a few strokes of a hard arkansas stone (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=625/Product/GUNSMITH-S-PREMIUM-ARKANSAS-STONE-FILE-SET) to remove anything left of the bur, and finish with several brushes on my straight razor strop.

Now I only have to take out that Chef's Choice POS my mother bought us 3 Christmases ago for display when she's in town.

[Streck-Fu]

I'd also like to see them in "solid" coating.[/B]

While looking for sharpening stones, I was reminded of this post when I came across these solid diamond stones from DMT. Perhaps they were listening to you, Bill. :cool:

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-8-Dia-Sharp-Diamond-Kit-P405C24.aspx

[Barbarian]

Perhaps they were listening to you, Bill.:cool:

They do if they're smart.:cool: Bill knows stuff.

[trunkmonkey]

I was discussing this thread with my brother the other day and we had a good laugh about how our great grandfather taught us to sharpen knives. I thought it may not be educational but is definitely entertaining. Where I grew up we got our first knives at four years old. these were generally large, schrade, single blade folding knives. These knives were taped up in several layers of duct tape. You were not allowed to use your knife until you could remove all of the tape on your own (I think they melted it after applying). While you carried the knife around you would be asked how to cut xxxxx then show whoever asked how you would cut it using a stick. If you were safe about it they would take out their pocket knife and have you cut it with their knife. I was about 8 when i had to start going out with my great grandfather for a few days on horseback and help work cattle. We were sitting around the fire and my grandfather taught me how to sharpen my knife. he worked both knife and stone and had this double sided sharpener (super coarse and super fine) which was about 12 inches long and 1" thick. After a few hours i could put a decent edge on my knife. The next night we are sitting next to the fire and my great grandfather asked me for my knife. He took it and started cutting sandstone until you couldn't cut anything with it. After making my knife exceptionally dull he tied my leg to a tree an gave me my knife and a whetstone. It took a long time but i eventually got the hang of it and cut myself loose. After a few months and lots of practice I could sharpen my knife to shaving sharp reliably. Then the spot checking started. If he couldn't take my knife and stab it into a round bale and drag it end to end cutting all the baling twine he would close it and throw it as far as he could. As I would be out looking for it i could hear him telling me that a dull knife is about as good as a rock and rocks are for throwing. After he turned 96 he couldn't sharpen any more knives so I ended up doing it for him. When I was joining the Army he took my whetstone and threw it in the fire then broke his in half and gave me a 5" section. I still use this whet stone for all my sharpening from axes to pocket knives. It weighs about a pound and even though it is heavy i always carried it in my assault pack. I always have made room to carry it and still make every effort to keep every knife in my house shaving sharp.

[MR2]

Being taught to sharpen

That's a great story.

[44025]

Have you guys ever tried running your knife over some leather after its been sharpened? An old timer once told me to do that after he saw me sharping my knife. He said it helps to keep an edge longer.

[The Reaper]

Have you guys ever tried running your knife over some leather after its been sharpened? An old timer once told me to do that after he saw me sharping my knife. He said it helps to keep an edge longer.

Let me guess.

You have never seen anyone sharpen a razor, right? :rolleyes:

TR

[PSM]

Have you guys ever tried running your knife over some leather after its been sharpened? An old timer once told me to do that after he saw me sharping my knife. He said it helps to keep an edge longer.

Oh, those wily old timers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_strop :D ;)

Pat

[CA_TacMedic]

I bought, own and still use my strop I bought. I actually bought it after reading a tutorial from Mr. Harsey on sharpening scissors. After that I started using it on my knives. I am still not really good at it, but the strop has definitely been worth what I paid for it.

Wallace

[JHB]

For what its worth, I keep a piece of emory cloth the length of my foot in the sole of my shoe to work out the minor "kinks". Its lightweight, wont tear easliy and works better when wet.

[judcargile]

I am the worse knife sharpener in the world. I usually give mine to somebody that knows what they are doing in exchange for free medical care or something. I wish I could learn how to do it.


LOVE IT! Me too brother! I stink! (and I can not hone a blade either!)

[Bill Harsey]

LOVE IT! Me too brother! I stink! (and I can not hone a blade either!)

Read the sharpening thread here. It's a sticky.

Read it again then sharpen your knife. ;)

[Kasik]

Always carried three knives after awhile -

Pocket knife of some sort for fine work - i.e. Swiss Army model.

H2H knife of some sort - not to be used for anything else if at all possible - i.e. Gerber MK I.

Field knife of some sort - sturdy and with correct blade geometry for EZ honing in the field, if necessary - i.e. KA-Bar Fighting-Utility Knife.

I found a stone as provided with many Randall Made knives worked just fine.

And when the quick and small ceramics came out I added one for the quick touch-up capability.

All very inexpensive, lightweight, compact when and where space on kit/body armor or rucksack was/is concerned.

[Bill Harsey]

Sharpening update!
Last week I had the chance to hand sharpen a Spartan Harsey folder that had been used hard daily for over a year by a building contractor. Some pretty tough stuff had been cut with it and the edge had some dull spots.
Sharpening was done the owner watching.

I have a Norton two sided stone on the bench, the orange colored fine side is aluminum oxide and the other is a dark grey colored medium silicon carbide.

My report is that the silicon carbide side cut the CPM S35VN steel very well, restored the edge within my "job" attention span (which if that runs out I go to the belt grinder) and some finish work on the orange side of the stone had the knife paper slicing sharp.

Cutting a piece of printer/copy machine paper by drawing the length of the blade from base to tip in a slicing cut is a good way to test for flat spots on the edge that need a bit more work on the stone.