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HOLLiS

07-01-2005, 10:13

Peregrino

07-01-2005, 13:38

I have asked this on socnet.

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Recently a good friend suggestion using a left handed bolt action rifle for distance shooting. He stated some of the military snipers are going that way, when shooting from a bag. It seems to make a lot of sense. your rt hand never leaves the waist of the stock/trigger group. Your cheek does not have to leave "spot weld" (comb of the stock) so you can watch as you feed your firearm.

Has any one tried it. I am thinking of building a lefty for me.

Thanks, Hollis

Sounds like a bright idea from a unit with "what if" guys and a lot of money to waste. Personally, unless you have more money than God has little green apples, I would recommend against it. The problem you're trying to solve is a training issue. "Tricks and technology" will not solve that problem. Quality training will overcome the majority of what you are trying to address with the left-handed receiver and I don't think the rest of it is worth investing in a very special purpose rifle. The further you deviate from the norm - the narrower the application of your perceived solution. Shooting from a bag is only one of the things you have to do in tactical shooting. Besides - if you're pulling the stock back into the shoulder or manipulating the "sock" with the left hand, you disturb your position less by moving your right hand to manipulate the bolt. If you need rapid followup shots get a quality semi - something on the AR-10. Let's see what LR1947 throws in - this ought to draw him out of his shell. :munchin FWIW - I'm a left handed pistol shooter. I shoot rifles right handed. I've shot left handed rifles - and went right back to shooting right handed ones. It's a matter of economics, availability, and ergonomics. YMMV - Peregrino

lksteve

07-01-2005, 15:37

as a left handed shooter who spent a career shooting right handed guns, i can tell you that it is complete and utter bullshit... :p

The Reaper

07-01-2005, 19:55

HOLLiS

07-01-2005, 21:21

Peregrino, Thank you for the reply, Gives me something more to think about I will get back to you. It was about the same I heard from a Scout Sniper. I agree about the military part uniformity is important. For me, I find it the idea interesting considering HK G3 and FN FALs all charge from the left side.

IKsteve, why do you say that?

The Reaper, The friend made it through selection almost two ago, in September, did a year deployment in Iraq, and is now on his his 2nd phase of Q. He should finish around Sept. 2006.

I am ambidextrous and very interested in the histroy of firearm development. In the USA there is right hand preferance, most firearms require that it be charged from that side. As I stated above that does not seem to be the same for other countries. It may be BS as Iksteve stated simply "BS". Some ideas may fly only on paper.

Thank you for the responces.

Hollis

The Reaper

07-01-2005, 21:27

The Reaper, The friend made it through selection almost two ago, in September, did a year deployment in Iraq, and is now on his his 2nd phase of Q. He should finish around Sept. 2006.

Hollis

So he isn't actually SF yet? I finished the course 21 years ago. The other posters here went through before me. What is your point?

I agree with Peregrino and lksteve, sounds like BS.

TR

lksteve

07-01-2005, 21:54

IKsteve, why do you say that? take a standard bolt action rifle...aim it left handed and operate the bolt...ever heard the expression about a monkey performing an unnatural act on a football? there is a reason that the trigger hand operates the bolt...just try it...
secondly, pull the bolt all the way to the rear, as if you were extracting a round...you are not keeping a stock weld because, unless you have a really long length of pull, getting the bolt to the rear is going to cause you to move your face...

as Peregrino says, operating a weapon is a function of training...machine guns have bolts designed to be operated with the right hand...automatic and semi-automatic rifles have bolts designed to be operated with the right hand...it is natural for a right handed firer, a trained right handed firer, to operate the bolt with the right hand...the weapons were designed that way...

lefties have to adapt to the weapons in the inventory...some, like Perigrino, adapt to firing right handed...some like myself, have such a dominant left eye that firing right handed is problematic, especially for any instinctive firing...hell, no matter which hand i hold the gun with, if i am shooting through open sights with both eyes open, the left eye is the one that's going to dominate, so i might as well use the corresponding hand...(some folks are cross-dominant...) i adapted over my career to use a weapon effectively and subsequent modifications to the M16 made the weapon easier for me to use...

since the weapons are designed for right handed firers, it is counter-intuitive (to me) for someone who is right handed to try to adapt a left handed weapon for some half-baked idea that it allows a shooter to keep a stock weld...not the case...

of course what would i know...? i'm just a graduate of the weapons (and engineer) course... :D

Peregrino

07-01-2005, 23:13

HOLLiS - lksteve covered the bases better than I did. Guess I'm too literal (nice) with my responses. I tried to give you a complete answer the first time. Try what he suggested - shoot a right handed rifle left handed and manipulate the bolt with your right (non-firing hand). Use sandbags and a support for the butt. You will quickly realize why none of us support your friend's comment/advice/or whatever he was doing. And I didn't even think to comment on getting your face out of the way while you manipulate the bolt. I'm completely in agreement with TR and lksteve - no sniper/shooter I've ever associated with would even consider doing what you ask about. Because of the skill sets and the differences in technique, none of the guys I know would even consider your question seriously - nor would they give credence to the supposed "problem" it is intended to fix.

Next point - your question was about bolt action receivers. All military/police (standard) bolt actions I'm aware of are right handed. You're comment about G-3s and FALs is somewhat correct; their bolts are manipulated by the left hand. They do not (technically) charge from the left (charge is Euro talk for load). They are also not bolt guns. Neither one of them are precision long range guns either. Personally, I'm not overly impressed with G-3s (or most HKs period) and the charging handle on the FAL can be manipulated with the right hand by rotating the rifle to the right and reaching across the top of the receiver - the same way lefties manipulate a right-handed bolt gun.

lksteve - I feel your pain. To add to it, I'm cross-eye dominant. I started shooting competitively in JROTC with right handed rifles. Since I was the only lefty, and all the equipment belonged to the school, I shot with what was available. I tried doing it lefty, but the ergonomics weren't working and I went back to shooting right handed. I keep the pistol left handed despite the eye issue because I'm a klutz with my right hand. As I get older it takes more concentration not to cross eye the sights. In fact, the older I get, the more I like shotguns (Rooster Cogburn). :D Peregrino

Razor

07-02-2005, 10:24

...The friend made it through selection almost two ago, in September, did a year deployment in Iraq, and is now on his his 2nd phase of Q...

Was his primary weapon a bolt-action rifle during any of this time? What is his experience and frame of reference on this subject, beyond conjecture, hearsay or "I saw this high-speed guy do this thing in Iraq..."?

HOLLiS

07-03-2005, 14:32

Peregrino and Iksteve, thank you for the response. I think Iksteve suggestion to try a rt. handed rifle in the left handed position a far better idea than build a lefty and realizing it was "BS" to begin with.

I am going to do some long distance shooting this week, and will try that. Not that I am discounting your sage advice. I am sure glad I asked first, than to have built a novelty firearm.

Razor, I do not mean to ignore your questions. I can say He was on Strykers and I will have to ask him on the other points.

Again thank you for the responses.

Hollis

NousDefionsDoc

07-03-2005, 16:01

I can think of several reasons why this is not a good idea.

as a left handed shooter who spent a career shooting right handed guns, i can tell you that it is complete and utter bullshit

Sums it up nicely

Besides, what does moving your right hand have to do with cheekweld?

lksteve

07-03-2005, 19:02

I am going to do some long distance shooting this week, and will try that. Not that I am discounting your sage advice. I am sure glad I asked first, than to have built a novelty firearm.heck, it might work for you...but i am glad you are not springing for a left-hand action firearm that i could have bought from you for... a...discount....hell, Hollis, go ahead and build one... :D

HOLLiS

07-05-2005, 13:52

heck, it might work for you...but i am glad you are not springing for a left-hand action firearm that i could have bought from you for... a...discount....hell, Hollis, go ahead and build one... :D

IkSteve, LOLOL. That would be better than converting it to a boat anchor.

Hollis

lksteve

07-05-2005, 14:10

That would be better than converting it to a boat anchor.

Hollisthe question begs, did you have a chance to test the hypothesis, and if so, did it work for you?????????

BTW, it's Lksteve...i'm too lazy for caps on my name...

hellokitty

07-21-2005, 04:19

Hi everyone, from the sounds of things hollis's mate might have been watching some of the benchrest boys doing their thing , as a lot of them use actions with rh bolts and lh loading ports , i cant see any advantage to this other than the "wow cool gadget factor " and when single loading. I cannot see any tactical advantage and as what this has to do with cheek weld i have no idea , as it is my understanding a good cheek weld comes from proper rifle fit and set up. all the best, kitty.

Gene Econ

08-07-2005, 19:27

You South Paws out there or fellows who are North Paw but want a left handed bolt gun.

Well, at a prone match today a fellow had a beautiful Pre-64 Model 70 left handed action on a nice Match Rifle stock. He is a South Paw of course and although his performance was not so good, I did admire the rifle.

Didn't occur to me until today though that if you are a right handed shooter and intend on firing with the right hand -- but want a left handed bolt action -- you best get a unisex stock. This particular Model 70 Match Rifle had a left handed stock in terms of design and manufacture. A right handed shooter would have extreme difficulty in obtaining a consistent position with this particular stock.

Gene

kachingchingpow

11-16-2006, 15:10

But I was searching for something and stumbled across it.

I'm a lefty shooter as well, and find it just a big PIA to deal with right handed bolt guns. I've adapted, but there *is* a whole list of issues to complain about using one in the field, not to mention the fit issue that Gene described above. It's been mentioned, but you can absolutely forget about not moving your cheek off the stock to cycle a round... defies the laws of physics with a long action. That being said, there *has* been a trend for quite some time for bench rest shooters to shoot reverse handed actions. About 10 years ago, a fella purchased a lefty Savage 110SP that I owned chambered in .300WM for the sole purpose of building a custom right handed stock for it, and shooting competitively with it. I supposed the ease of use comes into play when you're sitting at the table, can only load one round at a time, and the rifle is essentially stationary. There's not "much" moving you have to do from the bench to observe the chamber, load or clear the action when the ejection side of the action is facing you while you're seated.

Other than that... PIA. Last year I purchased a Leopold VX-III Varmint reticle target knob scope for my Rem 700. Didn't think about it at the time, but the side parallax adjustment (left side) is a royal pain for a lefty. With the rifle shouldered on the left, eye looking through the scope, my left arm cannot reach the knob (and I'm 5'10). The only way to operate the dam thing is to attempt to do so by reaching across the top with the right hand, which is not possible unless the rifle is sitting on a rest or bag. Nice. I'm already pondering when this piece of optics finds it's way to e-bay.