View Full Version : UnF'n Believable
Peregrino
06-22-2005, 13:51
Can you believe this? I am beyond words. Peregrino
Kansas group vows to crash Piper funeral
By Caitlin Nagle / For the Item
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
MARBLEHEAD - As Marblehead continues to plan a substantial event in honor of its fallen hero, Special Forces Army Staff Sgt. Christopher N. Piper, the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church is planning a protest at his funeral.
The funeral for Piper, who died a week ago today from injuries suffered two weeks earlier from a roadside bomb in Afghanistan, is scheduled for Monday at 10 a.m. at Old North Church, First Church of Christ (Congregational), 35 Washington St., Marblehead, followed by a graveside service in veterans' section of Waterside Cemetery, Marblehead.
According to Margie Phelps, daughter of Wesboro Baptist Church minister Fred Phelps, protesters from Topeka will stand on sidewalks holding signs that read "America Is Doomed" and "Thank God for IEDs," (IED being an "improvised explosive device," a reference to a roadside bomb or mine, which killed Piper and two of his fellow soldiers).
Phelps said, "This nation has institutionalized the most grievous sin (homosexuality)" and that God is taking vengeance on the United States through the killing of American soldiers and 9/11.
Town Clerk and former selectman Thomas McNulty responded to the purported protest with anger.
"If this group of kooks should present themselves in the town of Marblehead. I am sure they will be treated as they deserve to be treated, which is indifferently." He added, "I am appalled."
Other state and town officials expressed similar opinions.
Dick powers, spokesperson for the state Department of Veterans' Services, said, "It is sad and ironic they would choose to disrupt a private moment honoring the memory of someone killed defending their freedom of speech. While it may be their right, they have certainly crossed a moral line."
Marblehead Veterans' Agent David Rodgers added that he hopes no attention is given to the group as to avoid acknowledging its message. Consequently, he said he is not aware of and won't be organizing any counter protests.
Police Chief James Carney said his department is aware of the purported demonstration and is taking the necessary steps to ward off confrontation.
"We are developing a plan and we will have a police presence at the funeral," he said. "We are very blessed (Piper) was part of this community. The police department fully intends to support his family and honor his service to our country."
The protesters have also issued a proclamation to picket the funeral of Marine Capt. John Maloney of Chicopee. According to Phelps, for the past 15 years, members of the church have used their own money to picket schools, churches and funerals throughout the country.
She said, "We have been to every state and seven other countries."
The group converged on the town of Lexington two weeks ago in order to protest several churches and schools. Francine Edwards, pastoral associate of St. Brigid Catholic Church, said only 10 or so protestors arrived.
She reported that ignoring the placards and the radicals resulted in a short 30-minute protest.
"We just totally ignored them. The police were extremely organized just in case something happened." She said that most importantly, "Townspeople were urged not to confront them at all."
Roguish Lawyer
06-22-2005, 14:01
O2 thiefs.
The Dave
06-22-2005, 14:04
O2 thiefs.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
It just amazes me what goes through some peoples minds. So incredibly disrespectful. He should be killed with a dull spoon.
Bill Harsey
06-22-2005, 15:31
I sure hope no one drives by the protestors and pepper sprays them.
Peregrino
06-22-2005, 15:44
Did some Google'n to find out who these imbeciles are - turns out they're a bunch of RABID, foaming at the mouth, homophobes. Their only agenda is the national media attention they will gain from desecrating SSG Piper's memorial service.
Despicable.
Intruding on a memorial service and inflicting a hostile partisan viewpoint on the family and mourners in the profundity of their grief is an act beneath contempt. The depths to which self-appointed, self-important, arbiters of the National Conscience will stoop to force the dissemination of their messages of intolerance and an enforced conformity to their ideals nauseates and infuriates me. To denigrate the service, life, and sacrifice of a soldier slain defending their rights (however indirectly) bespeaks a contempt for all who would put themselves in harms way in defense of them. It also conveys contempt for the ideals that would have those rights apply equally to all. Yet these are the selfsame "pillars of the community" who leap to respond with righteous indignation when they are held deficient against some other equally arbitrary moral/ethical standard. I could only wish them a world made to their image: hatred and intolerance for all who do not conform to an arbitrary norm - that they may discern the fallacies of their beliefs by living subject to the results - were the rest of us not likewise required to suffer the consequences of their arrogance and ignorance. What really frosts my cornflakes - the only appropriate and civilized response is the resounding silence of indifference - to them and their causes.
Bastards! :mad: Peregrino
Bill Harsey
06-22-2005, 15:47
Well written Peregrino.
Now I sure hope no one drives by and uses a grizzly bear sized can of pepper spray on them.
Then we can ignore them.
Sacamuelas
06-22-2005, 16:43
I favor a different method than Bill. Go showup and start blending into the group as a silent "supporter". Make contact with the leaders, obtain contact phone numbers , names, addresses, favorite hang outs, place of employment, etc on the lot of them.
Allow some time to pass. Then...... express your disagreement with their morality in your own terms.
I favor a different method than Bill. Go showup and start blending into the group as a silent "supporter". Make contact with the leaders, obtain contact phone numbers , names, addresses, favorite hang outs, place of employment, etc on the lot of them.
Allow some time to pass. Then...... express your disagreement with their morality in your own terms.
I like that method.
Doc
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 16:54
Contact whatever Baptist Convention they belong to and ask if these "people" represent their membership and official positions.
TR
I may be koo-koo, but I believe that this is illegal in some regard.
Disrupting a funeral is kinda like robbing a gun store at gunpoint on police and military discount day.
And the quote that pisses me off the most: "Phelps said, "This nation has institutionalized the most grievous sin (homosexuality)" and that God is taking vengeance on the United States through the killing of American soldiers and 9/11."
Thank you to the Kansas chapter of Al Qaeda recruiting. It's nice to know that I am going to be potentially punished by the almighty for someone elses sins. These so-called "Americans" can protest all they want. At some point I think that these jerk-offs should be infiltrated like Saca says and given some of their own crap in their place of worship. Nothing extreme,....Oh the wheels are spinnin'. :mad:
Sweetbriar
06-22-2005, 18:12
They are self-ordained. Apparently they don't even like Christians. Rather than send you to their website (godhatesfags dot com), see a brief summary here:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp
They are no better than the Taliban IMO.
Doc
They are self-ordained. Apparently they don't even like Christians. Rather than send you to their website (godhatesfags dot com), see a brief summary here:
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/wbc/default.asp
I think these "people" (loose terminology) have some self-loathing issues that they may need to seek help on. Looks like Aryan (sp?) Nation has a splinter group of extreme bigots. Unfortunately these kinds will not go away if ignored given the timeline in your link.
They are here to stay until someone finds a good reason to slot them in a dark alley. This may ultimately be the reason.
I notice that the Modus Operandi of this group is kinda weak and un-organized. 10 protesters, only show up at schools, 30 minutes of protesting. They are one of those cases in which nobody saw it coming. This has cult fanatacism written all over it.
Mr. Phelps has peaked my interest and I'm gonna put him on the study list. :mad:
This group protested another soldiers funeral a week or so ago, it was discussed in another forum. Checking them out you'll find the real Baptist want nothing to do with these people. Their website also, or did, post a list of funerals they plan to be at. He has a letter at his website ranting that IEDs are Gods vengeance on the U.S. military and ties it in with being revenge for some slight on his "church".
As for law I believe if they directly interferred or hindered the procession something could be done. If all they do is stand along the route with signs and yell they'd probably be protected. It'd be along the line of Democrats protesting the GOP convention.
Goggles Pizano
06-22-2005, 19:07
I will gladly burn a sick day to administer an away game beat down.
I will gladly burn a sick day to administer an away game beat down.i share the sentiment, but it would only degrade you to their level...
actually, i'm more in favor of the whole group encountering one of their blessed IEDs...
O2 thiefs.
More like genetic debris.
I like Saca's covert op.
Ambush Master
06-22-2005, 19:12
Are we sure that these aren't Moslems disguised as BAPTISTS ?!?!?!
Perigrino's description of what their world should look like sounds like it !!!
" I could only wish them a world made to their image: hatred and intolerance for all who do not conform to an arbitrary norm - that they may discern the fallacies of their beliefs by living subject to the results - were the rest of us not likewise required to suffer the consequences of their arrogance and ignorance. "
Peregrino
06-22-2005, 19:17
i share the sentiment, but it would only degrade you to their level...
actually, i'm more in favor of the whole group encountering one of their blessed IEDs...
Finally - A smile! Gives new meaning to the term "Holy Hand Grenade". :D Peregrino
More like genetic debris.
I like Saca's covert op.
Agree ma'am, it these pukes had to have something like an NCOER or an evaluation of some sort I believe these bullets would be in order:
Has hit rock bottom and started to dig.
A village somewhere has lost it's idiot. I prefer a region somewhere has lost it's idiot villiage since there is more than one.
Obviously the lifeguard wasn't paying attention when they jumped into the gene pool.
You get the idea. :D
Mine had one to the effect of: Troops will only follow him out of morbid curiousity.
Obviously the lifeguard wasn't paying attention when they jumped into the gene pool.
You get the idea. :D
I do. I like the lifeguard one. It's a shallow gene pool at that. ;)
Dustin03
06-22-2005, 20:34
ROAD TRIP!!!!!!!
sounds like an opportunity for candidates to practice their phase II skills :D
sounds like an opportunity for candidates to practice their phase II skills it's been awhile...when i went through SFQC, Phase II was the MOS phase...what is phase II now...? push-ups? :D not sure that would help...
jasonglh
06-22-2005, 20:57
Interesting its a 100 member church that protests nationwide. I would think that would require a pretty good amount of funding. Searching his name turned up they are also protesting a High School graduation in New Hampshire. Of course with 13 kids the whole church may well just be his family.
Find out how they are funded and where the members work. Boycott any place that employees one of those idiots and generally make it hard for them to find/keep work.
Dustin03
06-22-2005, 21:06
it's been awhile...when i went through SFQC, Phase II was the MOS phase...what is phase II now...? push-ups? :D not sure that would help...
phase II is now Small Unit Tactics.......was that a hint sir? :(
Peregrino
06-22-2005, 21:07
Following Sweetbriar's link - most of the next generation appear to be lawyers and bad - i.e. immoral/unethical (redundant, I know) ones at that. Fortunately we know a couple with reputable character on our side. Thanks to SB - following that link was an educational experience. These ???? give run of the mill Fascists a bad name! I can see why the ADL would have a database on them. Peregrino
phase II is now Small Unit Tactics.......was that a hint sir? not really...i honestly cannot keep track of the permutations that SFQC has gone through in the last 30 years....i do, however, suspect that push-ups are the glue that binds the whole process together... :D
Find out how they are funded and where the members work. Boycott any place that employees one of those idiots and generally make it hard for them to find/keep work.boycotting where they work might be difficult for some of us...finding their source of funds might be problematic, but i think it's the way to go...
jasonglh
06-22-2005, 21:42
Well I was really thinking more along the lines of the local level. Say going into said place of employment and having a chat with the manager.
If they are really that busy running around making asses of themselves nationwide how would they have time to work?
Makes one wonder if they dont live in some Branch Davidian commune somewhere doesnt it?
CoLawman
06-22-2005, 22:40
Had the distinct pleasure( choking) of meeting the Reverand and his son at our local University where they were actually invited to take part in a forum on Diversity. This invitation was brought about by their activities involving the Wyoming homicide case re; Shephard.
I was heading up these individuals entourage's security. But even these two clowns were unable to incite the far left University inhabitants that showed up.
Now the crowd is going to be a bit different in Kansas with very strong emotions playing a factor.
Phelps and son are excellent at throwing around racial slurs and homosexual slanders to incite the crowds they appear in front of. Same tactics employed by the KKK.
Suffice it to say there is certainly a need for them having Police protection where ever they land, as their intent is to incite violence. And they have accomplished that at several venues. So don't be surprised if they get a pummeling, Kansas style.
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 23:08
Suffice it to say there is certainly a need for them having Police protection where ever they land, as their intent is to incite violence. And they have accomplished that at several venues. So don't be surprised if they get a pummeling, Kansas style.
That would be a real shame. I would waste a lot of tears over it. :D
TR
Roguish Lawyer
06-23-2005, 15:36
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2005/06/friend-of-my-enemy.html
CoLawman
11-10-2005, 10:39
http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20051110/NEWS/111100099
PFC Tyler MacKenzie 101 Airborne, will be buried tomorrow. A great kid and a hero by all definitions.
As stated weeks back I have had the misfortune to meet members of WESTBOROUGH (intentionally mispelled) Church. They have applied for- and received- a permit to protest our hometown heroes funeral.
There will be a large contingent of police officers honored to be paying respects to Tyler.... and loath to be insuring the safety of the demons from Kansas!
RIP Tyler!
Spartan359
11-10-2005, 11:12
Now I sure hope no one drives by and uses a grizzly bear sized can of pepper spray on them.
Why not just throw the grizzly bear at them? How could they have the moral indecency to protest their opinions at that time? I guess they never thought of the grieving mother. People like that will never know what the term "Sacrifice" means. What a bunch of dickheads. :mad:
About two months ago we lost a young man, killed by an IED. That group was in town to protest at the cemetery. The local police department set their SWAT trucks and other equipment strategically to block the protestors view of the funeral. And the grieving family was not distracted by the protestors so they could take care of the task at hand. Burying their son.
Michelle
11-10-2005, 16:30
This makes me incredibly angry.
Mr. Harsey, you are very kind for only thinking pepper-spray. I'm thinking about something much worse.
I volunteer for infiltration duty. I mean really. Who would suspect a small and meek red-head who is kind of quiet and not too smart.
m1
The Reaper
11-10-2005, 17:16
Who would suspect a small and meek red-head who is kind of quiet and not too smart.
m1
Where would you find this person?
I do not believe that you match any of those adjectives other than possibly small and red-headed.
TR
Bill Harsey
11-10-2005, 17:57
This makes me incredibly angry.
Mr. Harsey, you are very kind for only thinking pepper-spray. I'm thinking about something much worse.
I volunteer for infiltration duty. I mean really. Who would suspect a small and meek red-head who is kind of quiet and not too smart.
m1
Only writing pepper spray. I was thinking of other things.
There are some sick, sick people in this world... as far as I'm concerned those people are not Americans.
Specat572
11-10-2005, 18:39
This 'group' of people using the term Christian as their cover will have repercussions on both the left and the right side fortunately.
Now unfortunately, these are just the type of individuals the heavy hitters(read Ilsamic fundamentalist) would love to recruit. Think the happenings most recently seen in Jordan can't/won't happen here?????? One of these 'Christians' undoubtly has it in him/her. No conspiracy theories here, just never say never. Somebody hopefully is keeping a profiling eye on their hides.
Specat572 sends
Michelle
11-10-2005, 19:51
Where would you find this person?
I do not believe that you match any of those adjectives other than possibly small and red-headed.
TR
Sir Reaper - Well, that is the art of the grey man strategy, nest pas?
An accomplished singer can sing out of tune. But a person who cannot sing well at all, can't sing *in* tune.
So it goes, a stupid person can't "pretend" to be smart (politicians aside).
But the other way around works quite well.
The soft spots here seem to be the following: This man (Phelps) was disbarred from the legal realm in 1979 (I believe... I'm pulling this from memory of earlier today) for lack of ethics. (woah! what a surprise). So he's not beyond the criminal element. His "church" (gag) was registered in 196? as a non-profit religious organization. Between those two things, I am sure there is plenty to take him down, if someone could get "in" and get the information. An independent audit could be key. An extensive background check might help.
Best case scenario would be finding him dead in a bathroom with a syringe full of herion and a gay lover. That would kill any "martyr" syndrome that might could follow. It's much more subtle than a "God blessed IED", and leaves no room for him to be cast as a hero.
Feel free to kill this post if it seems in bad taste. I'm just REALLY REALLY angry right now (which doesn't happen often) and that tends to make my bad side come out.
Mr. Harsey, I know you were thinking other than saying. However, I'm a no one with nothing at stake.... that gives me a certain amount of wondeful liberation on the matter.
m1
CoLawman
11-10-2005, 20:06
However, I'm a no one with nothing at stake....
m1
I seriously doubt that!
Just knowing that you can recognize EVIL says alot and says enough. No need for action against these people. Their miserable existence is testimony to the tortured and depressing house they live in. They make us miserable for a few moments at a time of vulnerability. But they live with their warped and demonic selves with no end in sight. And their misery exponentially increases with each evil deed.
Michelle
11-10-2005, 20:19
....... They make us miserable for a few moments at a time of vulnerability. But they live with their warped and demonic selves with no end in sight. And their misery exponentially increases with each evil deed.
I agree. BUT. We must not ignore..... Adolph.... or Saddam... their misery may have increased exponentially as well... but so did their power. When is it time to "stop" someone?
CoLawman, when do you draw that line? I have no idea. I am asking out of ignorance and outrage....and a little bit of a broken heart. And a LOT of a really PO'd heart.
m1
aricbcool
11-10-2005, 20:37
I seriously doubt that!
Just knowing that you can recognize EVIL says alot and says enough. No need for action against these people. Their miserable existence is testimony to the tortured and depressing house they live in. They make us miserable for a few moments at a time of vulnerability. But they live with their warped and demonic selves with no end in sight. And their misery exponentially increases with each evil deed.
CoLawman,
I respect your opinion, but at times like these I remember what Heinlein said: "A well armed society is a polite society."
I doubt you'd see any of this crap if the law allowed for action based on offenses like this. It's just one more example of the 1st Amendment becoming more important than the others.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: "Some people are alive, only because it's against the law to kill them." And that's a damned shame.
TANSTAAFL :D
--Aric
CoLawman
11-10-2005, 21:03
I agree. BUT. We must not ignore..... Adolph.... or Saddam... their misery may have increased exponentially as well... but so did their power. When is it time to "stop" someone?
CoLawman, when do you draw that line? I have no idea. I am asking out of ignorance and outrage....and a little bit of a broken heart. And a LOT of a really PO'd heart.
m1
You have found the weakness, and pointed out that my previous post was but a postulate. It is something I believe!
Maybe people like them are put on this earth to draw people of different pursuasions, political leanings and religions together. People such as the Phelps are so evil and so out of touch with reality that the bullseye becomes magnified. Whereas with out them....we are left to aim at moving targets.
You draw the line by adhering to laws. Saddam, Hitler, and Pol Pot were criminals committing crimes. The Phelps commit no crime...........unless some law enforcement officer becomes creative............but even then it is a misdemeanor.
Maintain the moral high ground ............and practice good mental health by venting and fantasizing about would do's and wish I could's!
While I am lecturing (apologies to the QP's and I know I am a guest) these are not Christians. They are self ordained Ministers with no ties to any organized religion. In my mind they are in the same category as a Jim Jones or a David Koresh. Which makes them a cult.
CoLawman
11-10-2005, 21:10
I doubt you'd see any of this crap if the law allowed for action based on offenses like this. It's just one more example of the 1st Amendment becoming more important than the others.
I guess what I'm trying to say is: "Some people are alive, only because it's against the law to kill them." And that's a damned shame.
TANSTAAFL :D
--Aric
Fully agree!
VelociMorte
11-11-2005, 09:23
boycotting where they work might be difficult for some of us...finding their source of funds might be problematic, but i think it's the way to go...
Their funding comes from lawsuits filed by the members of this "church". Most of them have legal training, education, or backround. Their M.O. is to roll into town in the most vile manner possible (i.e....protesting at a Fallen Soldier's funeral), stir up the relatives and locals, and then file lawsuits against anyone who protests their presence, or any municipality that fails to protect their "right" to protest. Their forte is to invoke their 1st Amendment rights while denying everyone else's. In past protests, it was determined that the best way to PUBLICLY rebuke their protests was to park large vehicles (fire trucks work well) directly in front of their protests to passively shield the relatives and friends of our Fallen Soldiers from viewing these idiots.
Personally, I like to imagine the looks on their faces as Fred's head turns into a cloud of pink mist at one of these protests while his entire clan looks on in surprise and confusion.
What would have happened to these folks if they staged their protests during WWII? At a minimum, the term knuckle sandwich comes to mind.
Michelle
11-15-2005, 19:26
After posting and stomping around about this on every forum I belong to, received this jewel of a reply from an LEO friend of mine in Indiana:
We have been dealing with protest from his followers here for awhile....
Just this week as a matter of fact......
One of our local State Reps is forwarding a bill to make it a crime to protest or disturb a military funeral because of them and their actions during a funeral of a local SF soldier......
Mick W
Now THAT is wonderful. If we could get every State on this bandwagon, we could shut down The Reverand O Hate as well as any others at the source, at least insofar is demonstrations at military funerals.
I guess short of "watching his head turn to pink vapor" as someone here suggested (*my vote*), the best way to deal with it is via the law. I'm going to lobby my State to follow in the footsteps of this bill.
m1
m1 keep us posted if you can with who will be sponsoring this bill etc, I'll write to my reps as well as passing along the info. Grass roots at its finest...
Occasionally I get an email with a request if in a particular AO to stand the line so to speak and bring Flags, basically to block the view of the genetic debris from such wrenching and private moments.
Michelle
11-15-2005, 19:44
m1 keep us posted if you can with who will be sponsoring this bill etc, I'll write to my reps as well as passing along the info. Grass roots at its finest...
Occasionally I get an email with a request if in a particular AO to stand the line so to speak and bring Flags, basically to block the view of the genetic debris from such wrenching and private moments.
Copy that Ms. Gypsy. Will do.
m1
CoLawman
11-15-2005, 21:29
m1 keep us posted if you can with who will be sponsoring this bill etc, I'll write to my reps as well as passing along the info. Grass roots at its finest...
Occasionally I get an email with a request if in a particular AO to stand the line so to speak and bring Flags, basically to block the view of the genetic debris from such wrenching and private moments.
That occurred at our protest Gypsy. It was not only a magnificent display of 200 flags, but it also made a beautiful boulevard for the procession!
That occurred at our protest Gypsy. It was not only a magnificent display of 200 flags, but it also made a beautiful boulevard for the procession!
I've seen some pictures from others CoLawman, it's a beautiful sight and a tribute at the same time.
Firebeef
11-16-2005, 13:07
here's a link to our (COlawman and myself's) hometown paper, and how our community treated these morons at the funeral of PFC Tyler MacKenzie. Our Fire Department was having a Veterans Day Presentation at Station #2, and the funeral procession passed by. If there was a dry eye in blue, I sure as hell didn't see it.
RIP PFC MacKenzie
Burn in Hell Phelps & Co
http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20051112/NEWS/111120076/0/ARCHIVES
Thanks, Firebeef!
Rest in Peace PFC MacKenzie.
Firebeef
11-16-2005, 21:59
Had Phelps and his band of idiots been allowed to, or had somehow been able to pass by or station themselves near our Fire Station where our Veterans Day ceremony was being held, I'm not sure I could have restrained myself. I'm just not sure I coulda been quick enough to get in a few blows, because I don't think there was a person there who wouldn't have absoloutley relished pummeling those idiots with nirvana like abandon.
I can understand the urge to pummel the living goodness out of them. My only worry is that this is precisely what they want; from what I've seen, their MO is to provoke people and then manipulate the legal system against said people.
However. We have strength of arm as well as brilliant legal minds. RL? AL? What do you think about these guys? Are they claiming tax-exempt status as a church? I'm no lawyer, but can't you lose that if engaged in political activity? What else is there?
I have no doubt that the minds on our side are of a substantially higher caliber than that of Fred 'rot in hell' Phelps.
Can you believe this? I am beyond words. Peregrino
...According to Margie Phelps, daughter of Wesboro Baptist Church minister Fred Phelps, protesters from Topeka will stand on sidewalks holding signs that read "America Is Doomed" and "Thank God for IEDs," (IED being an "improvised explosive device," a reference to a roadside bomb or mine, which killed Piper and two of his fellow soldiers)....
Grrrrrrrrr..............
Where's a group of 17 y.o. punks with paintball guns driving around in their parents car with the plates pulled when they could actually be of value???
pfft-splat, pfft-splat, pfft-splat...
However. We have strength of arm as well as brilliant legal minds. RL? AL? What do you think about these guys? Are they claiming tax-exempt status as a church? I'm no lawyer, but can't you lose that if engaged in political activity? What else is there?
I have no doubt that the minds on our side are of a substantially higher caliber than that of Fred 'rot in hell' Phelps.
This is excellent....follow the money. Hopefully our brilliant legal minds will chime in.
Firebeef
11-20-2005, 16:47
I hope that the Legal Beagles can do something. Do they pay their taxes?? I hate to say it, but the time I spent overseas, and indeed the time the men and women today spend in the line of fire are to insure that scum like Phelps, and anyone who was lucky enough to have been born in this country, have the right to their own opinions, and their right to public assmebly in support of these opinions, however despicable these opinions may be.
I am obviously not one prone to rash decisions and actions, but the primal feeling I got the morning of our Veterans Day ceremony, PFC's MacKenzies funeral, and the news that Phelps and his band of slobberin stutterin imbeciles were in town and what their intentions were....well...if they had shown up at Station #2 that morning, right at that moment..... OK, it woulda been the bad press those idiots crave....but damn it sure woulda felt good and relieved a WHOLE lotta stress....doncha know?!?!??
Michelle
02-07-2006, 11:30
Progress being made!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11206458/
m1
Progress being made!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11206458/
m1
Good :cool: It's about time. I've heard of this Phelps guy before, definitely not the first time he's done something like this. Not only do I disagree with their message, but I completely disagree with their tactics. They're never going to be taken seriously or respected for their opinions when they do patently dishonorable things, such as desecrating the funerals of brave men who died in service to our country and promoting homophobic bigotry. Even people who disagree with the GWOT or the concept of war in general are going to be hesitant to support somebody who sinks as low as Fred Phelps and his bunch. I wonder if they have connections to any domestic extremist groups. Would be a shame if the FBI put him and his group down on the list of suspected terrorist organizations ;) .
Progress being made!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11206458/
m1
Thanks for the update m1!!!
Hopefully these clowns step on their cranks and get rolled up by the Feds. :D
I'm glad my state is one of the 14.
zuluzerosix
02-07-2006, 21:46
these folks is just plain sick! They should rot. These guys are just pure evil trying to hide behind the lord. ...He would not approve. i speak to him daily and can assure all their plan is not his.
Shame on them. Infiltrate!
brewmonkey
02-08-2006, 16:09
I'm glad my state is one of the 14.
It was indeed good news when KS and MO passed those laws as Phelps is all over the place out here in the KC area. In MO some towns have gone even further the state laws, improving them in effect, outright banning any demonstrations at funerals within 1 hour of the service. Saint Joseph I belive was the first town to do so after Phelps and his demon spawn showed up for a funeral of an OIF casualty.
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/2094682.html
Originally Posted by Michelle
Progress being made!!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11206458/
This is excellent news - thanks.
But the picture along with the article has disturbed me even further. 9 year old boy holding his sign dutifully beside Mama saying, "Don't Pray for the U.S.A." ??????????
They are raising their own generation kids to act in inexcusably reprehensible behaviors?
I'd be calling their local children's services department for emoitional abuse or whatever I could find on them. Save the kids and give them a chance to formulate their own beliefs.
You just don't drag kids around the country and plant them with a placard in hopes they'll become as big a bigot as you are under the guise of "teaching them to be socially conscious."
The dishonour of protesting at military funeral P.O's me greatly. I hope the bills are planned and pass in all states.
Next step: Bill stating kids under 16 cannot protest. Period. They don't know enough about life or the world to have their own axe to grind yet.
I get a very sick feeling in my guts any time I see young kids placed strategically on the front lines to protest the war, freedom of choice, etc. The kids don't know any better - can't blame them. But do these parents understand when they are "proud" of Little Johnny shouting along with their verbal flotsam, they are just as bad as parent s who are proud their young kids martyr themselves as suicide bombers.
:mad:
aricbcool
02-09-2006, 17:52
This is excellent news - thanks.
But the picture along with the article has disturbed me even further. 9 year old boy holding his sign dutifully beside Mama saying, "Don't Pray for the U.S.A." ??????????
They are raising their own generation kids to act in inexcusably reprehensible behaviors?
I'd be calling their local children's services department for emoitional abuse or whatever I could find on them. Save the kids and give them a chance to formulate their own beliefs.
You just don't drag kids around the country and plant them with a placard in hopes they'll become as big a bigot as you are under the guise of "teaching them to be socially conscious."
The dishonour of protesting at military funeral P.O's me greatly. I hope the bills are planned and pass in all states.
Next step: Bill stating kids under 16 cannot protest. Period. They don't know enough about life or the world to have their own axe to grind yet.
I get a very sick feeling in my guts any time I see young kids placed strategically on the front lines to protest the war, freedom of choice, etc. The kids don't know any better - can't blame them. But do these parents understand when they are "proud" of Little Johnny shouting along with their verbal flotsam, they are just as bad as parent s who are proud their young kids martyr themselves as suicide bombers.
:mad:
Respectfully, I disagree with you on a few of these points.
1. The government should not have a say in how parents bring their children up. Also, children who are left (sans parents) to formulate their own beliefs will merely adopt the beliefs of whichever is the most dominant source of influence. While the suggestion about calling child protection services over these people bringing their kids to protest along with them sounds like a good idea now, to save these children from their misguided parents is something that should not happen. These children are and must be a casualty of the liberty citizens possess, to raise their children how they see fit. Otherwise, it is left to CPS to determine how our children are raised, under the threat of revocation of parental rights.
2. I think children under the age of 16 should have the right to protest. While I do see your point that these young people haven't necessarily had time to formulate their own opinions, to limit their right to protest is to limit their personal freedoms, which is something I disagree with.
3. While it is often reprehensible to see young children joining in protest alongside their parents when the cause is wrong or unjust, bringing one's children to protest impresses upon the government the earnesty of the protest itself. I don't see anything wrong with it, provided the children are voluntarily there.
That said, I really hate these fuckers, and agree that it is reprehensible that they are indoctrinating their children and then using them as pawns in their sick attention-getting game. I hope that laws are passed in all 50 states outlawing protests involving military funerals.
At the same time, I hope that this divisive group doesn't cause us to lose sight of the liberty we take from other groups or individuals when we censor them.
Respectfully,
Aric
CoLawman
02-10-2006, 00:30
1. The government should not have a say in how parents bring their children up. Also, children who are left (sans parents) to formulate their own beliefs will merely adopt the beliefs of whichever is the most dominant source of influence. While the suggestion about calling child protection services over these people bringing their kids to protest along with them sounds like a good idea now, to save these children from their misguided parents is something that should not happen.
Hmmmmmmmm......Okay Aric time to take you out behind the wood shed. Take a look at my avatar. See the little guy. He was saved by CPS as they did not feel he and his sister were being "raised properly". 2 years later parental rights were revoked! METH!
He and his sister are products of parents who NEED to have government intervention. They are part of a pervasive ill upon this country. GOOGLE information on the number of children currently in foster care due to sexual abuse, physical abuse, neglect, drug exposure, abandonment, and failure to thrive. Usually a foster child is a victim of several of these wrongs to children.
These children are and must be a casualty of the liberty citizens possess, to raise their children how they see fit. Otherwise, it is left to CPS to determine how our children are raised, under the threat of revocation of parental rights.
No child should EVER have to be sacrificed, as you propose. A persons right to liberty ends when they cannot conform to societal laws and rules. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PRISONS!
Every state has laws on the book making it illegal to do just as you propose! Allow children to be raised without government intervention. A teacher, a pastor, a medical field employee.........all are required by law to report 'suspected" abuse.
Your statement "THESE CHILDREN ARE AND MUST BE A CASUALTY OF THE LIBERTY CITIZENS POSSESS" might make for a popular protest sign at a Pro Choice rally, but for the life of me I can see no value or sound reasoning to apply it in any other debate. Oh wait..........if history serves me correctly Hitler used similar propaganda during WWII in the formation of Hitler's Youth.
2. .... to limit their right to protest is to limit their personal freedoms, which is something I disagree with.
My kids had minimal personal freedoms while they were adolescents......they seem to have turned out alright. These freedoms were not denied by the government, but by loving and responsible parents! As far as limiting their rights to protest at that age..........happened all the time. They could whine and throw temper tantrums up to a point...........their length of protest was always commensurate with my patience.
3. bringing one's children to protest impresses upon the government the earnesty of the protest itself. I don't see anything wrong with it, provided the children are voluntarily there.
Impresses the government? In all the protests I have attended as a representative of government, I never recall pondering the number of children present and then drawing some conclusion about the adults earnestness! LMAO.
That said, I really hate these fuckers, and agree that it is reprehensible that they are indoctrinating their children and then using them as pawns in their sick attention-getting game. I hope that laws are passed in all 50 states outlawing protests involving military funerals.
Using the F word certainly does not strengthen your stance, it only detracts from it.
At the same time, I hope that this divisive group doesn't cause us to lose sight of the liberty we take from other groups or individuals when we censor them.
By your reasoning then, you are worried President Bush is infringing on your liberties by not going through the FISA courts to obtain wiretap orders? Well Aric, how do you feel about "those liberties" ?:munchin
aricbcool
02-10-2006, 01:21
Hmmmmmmmm......Okay Aric time to take you out behind the wood shed. Take a look at my avatar. See the little guy. He was saved by CPS as they did not feel he and his sister were being "raised properly". 2 years later parental rights were revoked! METH!
He and his sister are products of parents who NEED to have government intervention. They are part of a pervasive ill upon this country. GOOGLE information on the number of children currently in foster care due to sexual abuse, physical abuse, neglect, drug exposure, abandonment, and failure to thrive. Usually a foster child is a victim of several of these wrongs to children.
Colawman,
Allow me to clarify. In regards to government intervention from CPS or otherwise, I agree that in instances of unlawful behavior, the government has a right to intervene. I did not mean to offend you, or come across as an anarchist. The instances you mention above all have to do with lawbreaking and I agree. However, my post was in regards to children being part of a lawful protest. However repulsive or dishonorable that protest is, the local authorities have allowed it to go on, thus making it lawful.
No child should EVER have to be sacrificed, as you propose. A persons right to liberty ends when they cannot conform to societal laws and rules. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PRISONS!
And I agree inasmuch as laws are concerned. However, I don't think that children should be removed from their parents' custody due to the political and religous beliefs of said parents. That is the point I was trying to get across. A child who is raised poorly, to believe whatever crackpot ideas their parents have instilled in them, is in my opinion a sacrifice we must make to avoid CPS and the government writing us a moral and religious handbook on what is and is not an acceptable way to raise our children.
Every state has laws on the book making it illegal to do just as you propose! Allow children to be raised without government intervention. A teacher, a pastor, a medical field employee.........all are required by law to report 'suspected" abuse.
Yes, they do, and that's well and good for abuse. For unorthodox political and religious beliefs, it is not.
Your statement "THESE CHILDREN ARE AND MUST BE A CASUALTY OF THE LIBERTY CITIZENS POSSESS" might make for a popular protest sign at a Pro Choice rally, but for the life of me I can see no value or sound reasoning to apply it in any other debate. Oh wait..........if history serves me correctly Hitler used similar propaganda during WWII in the formation of Hitler's Youth.
Hitler's Youth? A program where children were indoctrinated by the government, to betray their parents to Nazi authorities. That's guilt by association Sir!
My kids had minimal personal freedoms while they were adolescents......they seem to have turned out alright. These freedoms were not denied by the government, but by loving and responsible parents! As far as limiting their rights to protest at that age..........happened all the time. They could whine and throw temper tantrums up to a point...........their length of protest was always commensurate with my patience.
You're right, those freedoms were not denied by the government, nor should they be. I never mentioned anything about lax parental standards.
Impresses the government? In all the protests I have attended as a representative of government, I never recall pondering the number of children present and then drawing some conclusion about the adults earnestness! LMAO.
Having little protest experience myself, I won't try to argue this point. I will not withdraw it, however.
Using the F word certainly does not strengthen your stance, it only detracts from it.
Pardon my french then. I feel very strongly against these people. I wished to emphasize that, as I didn't want to come across as agreeing with their message, which I don't.
By your reasoning then, you are worried President Bush is infringing on your liberties by not going through the FISA courts to obtain wiretap orders? Well Aric, how do you feel about "those liberties" ?:munchin
I agree with President Bush's wiretapping program. In times of war, liberties must be sacrificed, sure. I don't see what this has to do with parental liberties...
PM inbound.
Respectfully,
Aric
CoLawman
02-10-2006, 09:10
Allow me to clarify. In regards to government intervention from CPS or otherwise, I agree that in instances of unlawful behavior, the government has a right to intervene. I did not mean to offend you, or come across as an anarchist. The instances you mention above all have to do with lawbreaking and I agree. However, my post was in regards to children being part of a lawful protest. However repulsive or dishonorable that protest is, the local authorities have allowed it to go on, thus making it lawful.
The local authorities "allowed it to go on" because it is lawful! Hard to get target acquisition in this debate as you are a moving target. You defend the children in this example as participating in a "lawful protest" yet seemingly want action taken against the adults engaged in the same event. I feel like I am debating Sybil!
And I agree inasmuch as laws are concerned. However, I don't think that children should be removed from their parents' custody due to the political and religous beliefs of said parents. That is the point I was trying to get across.
Sybil,
If you truly believe in the rule of law, then why are the child welfare laws different in your mind? Children are removed from their parents control when the parents are in violation of laws dealing with a child's welfare. There has been no instances where children are removed from homes strictly due to a parents political beliefs. There are no instances where a child has been removed from parent due to religious beliefs. There are instances where certain religious beliefs come into conflict with welfare laws..........failure to allow medical treatment, comes to mind. And even in this instance, the case law is not entirely clear to law enforcement. This issue is best left to those with juris doctorates.
Having little protest experience myself, I won't try to argue this point. I will not withdraw it, however.
Suit yourself! Here is an appropriate analogy to illustrate the point you choose not to withdraw:
Gunny Sgt. Tehran 1981: Sir, there is a large crowd gathering outside the gates, it's a huge protest! I think they are really really serious!
American ambassador Tehran 1981: Are there any children present?
Gunny: Uh no sir......but
Ambassador: Then they are obviously not very earnest! Quit worrying! :D
PM inbound.
Your request for an unconditional surrender.......DENIED!:p
My thoughts are that a free society operates on a Balancing act between opposing dichotomies, totalitarianism and anarchy. Somewhere between those to points we practice our freedoms. It is sometimes discussed as rights and responsibilities. I don't think there are any simple answers or the correct amount of blend between those two points. I have heard that the "pendulum swings" as describing the change in laws from tighter controls, to lesser controls, back to tighter controls on civil liberties.
Parents who parent well do not need governmental interference, while those who can not parent do. The question is always, how do we decide who the government will become involved with and when.
aricbcool
02-10-2006, 11:34
The local authorities "allowed it to go on" because it is lawful! Hard to get target acquisition in this debate as you are a moving target. You defend the children in this example as participating in a "lawful protest" yet seemingly want action taken against the adults engaged in the same event. I feel like I am debating Sybil!
Exactly. If what they are doing is illegal, fine. Call CPS. However, what they are doing is not illegal. Therefore, CPS should have no right to revoke custody. I'd like to see protest laws enacted against these people, so that they don't protest at funerals. However, I don't want to see laws enacted that say they can't protest at all.
You can't make a law that targets a specific organization (directly). Even if you could, it wouldn't be constitutional IMO. So, any law they make against these people will affect us all. That's where my caution arises.
Sybil,
If you truly believe in the rule of law, then why are the child welfare laws different in your mind? Children are removed from their parents control when the parents are in violation of laws dealing with a child's welfare. There has been no instances where children are removed from homes strictly due to a parents political beliefs. There are no instances where a child has been removed from parent due to religious beliefs. There are instances where certain religious beliefs come into conflict with welfare laws..........failure to allow medical treatment, comes to mind. And even in this instance, the case law is not entirely clear to law enforcement. This issue is best left to those with juris doctorates.
Had to google the Sybil part. Funny. :D
I'll answer this one, but it'll have to wait til I get to work this afternoon.
Suit yourself! Here is an appropriate analogy to illustrate the point you choose not to withdraw:
Gunny Sgt. Tehran 1981: Sir, there is a large crowd gathering outside the gates, it's a huge protest! I think they are really really serious!
American ambassador Tehran 1981: Are there any children present?
Gunny: Uh no sir......but
Ambassador: Then they are obviously not very earnest! Quit worrying! :D
Alright alright. Let me give my example. Here in Boise, there is a Cross that overlooks the city. The existence of this cross was challenged by some lawyer from CA, and the issue was being taken up by the local government. (Seperation of Church and State, etc.)
In order to impress upon the government our desire to see the cross remain, many people, including myself, held a peaceful march on the Capital. Where many protests are loud, and roudy, and oft-times violent, I would definitely call this a family affair. In order to impress upon the government the importance of the issue, how it relates to the family unit, and the way we raise our children, many people brought their whole family (to include babies in strollers). In the interest of full disclosure, I'll tell you I had no children at the time. However, I would have definitely brought them, not only for the reasons cited above, but also to educate them in the rights and liberties we possess as US citizens.
To take that right away from me and my family because of the crackpots from Kansas is wrong. This is what Pandora suggested when she proposed restricting children under 16 from protesting.
Your request for an unconditional surrender.......DENIED!:p
Surrender? I wouldn't have anywhere to put you.
Oh wait, I think I've got some room out behind the woodshed. :D
--Aric
There actions make me sick, and even more so that they hide behind there message of being Christian. Absolutely nothing they do has any moral value, and go along with anything in the Bible, they are a cult.
As for what should be done.. while my gut instinct is to say lets what they look like with a nice red tint to them.. the states attempting to pass laws is truly the most effective method. Hopefully The rest of the states will jump on this before these evil things continue work there.
My Mother is a very active member of the Blue Star Moms, I am going to give her a heads up about this group because the Blue Star Moms are all over the country I'm sure they could gets some things moving. Just an Idea.
c0b2a
aricbcool
02-13-2006, 18:31
Sybil,
If you truly believe in the rule of law, then why are the child welfare laws different in your mind? Children are removed from their parents control when the parents are in violation of laws dealing with a child's welfare. There has been no instances where children are removed from homes strictly due to a parents political beliefs. There are no instances where a child has been removed from parent due to religious beliefs. There are instances where certain religious beliefs come into conflict with welfare laws..........failure to allow medical treatment, comes to mind. And even in this instance, the case law is not entirely clear to law enforcement. This issue is best left to those with juris doctorates.
After doing a ton of research on the Internet, I've discovered how polarized this issue is. I couldn't find a moderate opinion to save my life.
I can't give you an instance of CPS revoking parental rights based on religious or political beliefs. Nor can I give you many specific cases at all due to the lack of resources on the Internet, and my lack of wanting to take the time to research it.
The reason I brought up the idea of CPS revoking rights based on political or religious beliefs was because Pandora was suggesting just that.
Ultimately, I'll defer to your comment regarding juris doctorates and call it closed. Deal? :)
Regards,
Aric
Goggles Pizano
05-22-2006, 08:03
....and the masses said "Woe unto you who mock the defenders of freedom" then exact justice upon those who smite the memory of any fallen American soldier/marine/airman/sailor. Amen.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060522/NEWS/605220347/1006
....and the masses said "Woe unto you who mock the defenders of freedom" then exact justice upon those who smite the memory of any fallen American soldier/marine/airman/sailor. Amen.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060522/NEWS/605220347/1006
Necropost redux.
This is NOT the way to confront these guys. See http://www.patriotguard.org/
I've been to funerals where these sickos were demonstrating and I can understand the fury that they can engender. But the poor slob who lost his temper and assaulted the Phelps supporter will have charges pressed and will have a civil suit filed against him. In over half the civil cases Phelps gets damages.
If you want to get their goat, marginalize them. PatriotGuard has good strategies.
CoLawman
05-24-2006, 11:14
Necropost redux.
This is NOT the way to confront these guys. See http://www.patriotguard.org/
I've been to funerals where these sickos were demonstrating and I can understand the fury that they can engender. But the poor slob who lost his temper and assaulted the Phelps supporter will have charges pressed and will have a civil suit filed against him. In over half the civil cases Phelps gets damages.
If you want to get their goat, marginalize them. PatriotGuard has good strategies.
I believe a jury of peers will find it very difficult to ignore the "Heat of Passion" defense in this case or any civil case that follows. I certainly do not condone this type of behavior, and will attend confession to ask forgiveness for secretly applauding this guys actions.:D
Team Sergeant
05-25-2006, 08:43
Legislation to Bar Protesters From Military Funerals Heads to Bush's Desk
WASHINGTON — Demonstrators would be barred from disrupting military funerals at national cemeteries under legislation approved by Congress and sent to the White House Wednesday
Rest of the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196940,00.html
Goggles Pizano
05-29-2006, 10:38
Legislation to Bar Protesters From Military Funerals Heads to Bush's Desk
WASHINGTON — Demonstrators would be barred from disrupting military funerals at national cemeteries under legislation approved by Congress and sent to the White House Wednesday
Rest of the story:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196940,00.html
Looks like it happened today TS. Good on you Mr. President!
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/29/104459.shtml?s=ic
Perfect day for signing this bill into law. Thanks, President Bush.
Michelle
05-30-2006, 09:00
Y'all beat me to it!
I heard the news about this right after watching the Memorial Service at Arlington yesterday morning. Aboslutely made my day!
m1