View Full Version : Getting in shape for Selection
Kyobanim
06-13-2005, 12:08
I found this while cleaning out my hard drive and thought someone might benefit from it. I can't remember where I found it or if it has been posted here before.
Attaining physical fitness is not an overnight process; the body must go through three stages:
a. The first is the toughening stage, which lasts about 2 weeks. During this time the body goes through a soreness and recovery period. When a muscle with poor blood supply (such as a weak muscle) is exercised, the waste products produced by the exercise collect faster than the blood can remove them. This acid waste builds up in the muscle tissue and irritates the nerve in the muscle fiber causing soreness. As the exercise continues, the body is able to circulate the blood more rapidly through the muscles and remove the waste material, which causes soreness to disappear.
b. The slow improvement stage is second stage in attaining physical fitness. As the body passes through the toughening stage and continues into the slow improvement stage, the volume of blood circulating in the muscle increases and the body functions more efficiently. In the first few weeks the improvement is rapid, but as a higher level of skill and conditioning is reached, the improvement becomes less noticeable. The body reaches its maximum level of performance between 6 and 10 weeks. The intensity of the program and individual differences account for the variance in time.
c. The sustaining stage is the third stage during which physical fitness is maintained. It is necessary to continue exercising at approximately the same intensity to retain the condition developed.
Physical workouts
Physical workouts should be conducted a minimum of 4 days a week; work out hard one day, easy the next. A hard and easy workout concept will allow maximum effort for overloading both the muscle groups and cardiorespiratory system; it will also prevent injury and stagnation in the program. For example: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday--Hard workouts (over-loading of muscles) (Saturday used for extra long workouts). Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday--Easy workouts. This is the time to practice swimming and work on overall fitness; sprints, pull-ups, push-ups, and especially stretching.
Prior to each workout, 10 to 15 minutes should be devoted to performing stretching exercises. Additionally, the USAJFKSWCS Surgeon recommends a well-balanced diet be incorporated with this recommended PT program and that daily fluid (water) intake be increased.
Week 1: (Only hard workout days are listed here. Make up your own workouts on your "easy" days.)
Day 1: See what you can do. Do the best you can do.
(a) APFT (maximum performance in all events, see what you can do).
(b) One hundred-meter swim (nonstop, any stroke, do not touch the side or bottom of the pool).
(c) Force march with 30-pound rucksack, 3 miles in 45 minutes (along road) or 1 hour if cross-country. (Wear well broken-in boots with thick socks.)
Day 2:
(a) Three sets of push-ups (maximum repetitions in one-half minute period).
(b) 3-mile run (moderate 8 to 9 minute mile pace).
(c) Rope climb or three sets of pull-ups (as many as you can do).
(d) Forced march with 30-pound rucksack, 5 miles in 1 hour and 15 minutes (along a road) or 1 hour and 40 minutes (cross-country).
Day 3: Forced march with 30-pound rucksack, 5 miles in 1 hour and 15 minutes (along the road) or 1 hour and 40 minutes (cross-country).
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Week 2:
Day 1: Repeat of day 3, week 1 (forced march), extend distance to 8 miles with 35-pound rucksack in 2 hours (along a road) or 2 hours and 40 minutes (cross-country).
Day 2:
(a) Three sets of push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups (maximum repetitions in 35-second period three times).
(b) Run 5 miles (moderate 8 to 9 minute mile pace).
(c) Three sets of squats with 35-pound rucksack (50 each set). Go down only to the point where the upper and lower leg forms a 90-degree bend at knee.
Day 3: Forced march with 35-pound rucksack, 10 miles in 3 hours (along a road) or 4 hours (cross-country).
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Week 3:
Day 1:
(a) Four sets of push-ups, pull-ups, and sit-ups (maximum repetitions in 40-second period).
(b) Run 4 miles (fast to moderate 7 to 8 minute mile pace.)
(c) Four sets of squats with 40-pound rucksack.
Day 2: Forced march 12 miles with 40-pound rucksack in 4 hours (along a road) or 4 hours and 40 minutes (cross-country).
Day 3:
(a) Four sets of push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups (maximum repetitions in 45-second period.)
(b) Run 6 miles (fast to moderate 7 to 8 minute pace).
(c) Four sets of squats with 40-pound rucksack.
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Week 4:
Day 1: Forced march 14 miles with 50-pound rucksack in 4 hours (along a road) or 4 hours and 40 minutes (cross-country).
Day 2:
(a) Four sets of push-ups, sit-ups, and pull-ups(maximum repetitions in 1-minute period).
(b) Run 6 miles (fast to moderate 7 to 8 minute mile pace).
(c) Four sets of squats with 50-pound rucksack.
Day 3: Forced march 18 miles with 50-pound rucksack in 4 hours and 45 minutes (along a road) or 6 hours (cross-country).
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Week 5:
Day 1:
(a) Run 3 miles (fast 6 to 7 minute mile pace).
(b) Five hundred-meter swim (nonstop, any stroke, but not on your back).
Day 2: APFT. You should be able to achieve a score of at least 240 (minimum of 70 points in any one event) in the 17 to 21 year age limit. If not, workout harder.
Day 3: Forced march 18 miles with 50-pound rucksack in 4 hours and 30 minutes (along a road) or 6 hours (cross-country).
Considerations.
a. For forced marches, select boots that are comfortable and well broken-in (not worn out). Wear lightweight fatigues and thick socks (not newly issued socks). Army issue boots are excellent if fitted properly.
b. Utilize map and compass techniques whenever possible during forced march cross-country workouts.
c. Insoles specifically designed to absorb shock will reduce injuries.
d. Practice proper rucksack marching and walking techniques:
(1) Weight of body must be kept directly over feet, and sole of shoe must be flat on ground taking small steps at a steady pace.
(2) Knees must be locked on every step in order to rest muscles of the legs (especially when going uphill).
(3) When walking cross-country, step over and around obstacles; never step on them.
(4) When traveling up steep slopes, always traverse them; climb in zigzag pattern rather than straight up.
(5) When descending steep slopes, keep the back straight and knees bent to take up shock of each step. Dig in with heels on each step.
(6) Practice walking as fast as you can with rucksack. Do not run with a rucksack. When testing, you may have to trot to maintain time, but try not to do this during training, it may injure you.
(7) A good rucksack pace is accomplished by continuous movement with short breaks (5 minutes) every 6 to 8 miles.
(8) If you cannot ruckmarch, then do squats with your rucksack. (One hundred repetitions, five times or until muscle fatigues.)
e. On each day (not listed in training program) conduct less strenuous workouts such as biking and short or slow runs. To compliment push-up workouts, weight lifting exercises should be included (for development of upper body strength) in easy day workout schedule. Swim as often as you can (500 meters or more).
f. Once a high level of physical fitness is attained, a maintenance workout program should be applied using the hard and easy workout concept. Once in shape, stay in shape. Do not stop this 5-week program. If you have met all the goals, then modify program by increasing distance and weight and decreasing times. Be smart, don't injure yourself.
Final notes
a. Do not expect to get "free" time from your unit to work out so you can come to SFAS. The responsibility to get in shape is yours and yours alone. Work out on your own time if that is all you have. If you go to the field, work on strengthening drills: Push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, squats (with extra weight) when you can, as often as you can. The mission is to get in shape.
b. Eat things that are good for you and stay away from junk food and fat foods.
c. You need to be in very good shape and able to carry a rucksack day after day for the entire time you are at SFAS. This is an assessment of you. We do not teach or coach you to get through SFAS. You will be challenged.
d. The Army Research Institute (ARI) has been able to closely correlate performance on the APFT and a 4-mile rucksack march with success in SFAS. During fiscal year (FY) 89 and FY 90 ARI evaluated the cumulative APFT score (17 to 21 age group standard) with the percent of candidates who started SFAS and who passed the course. The average PT score for SFAS graduates is 250. The average PT results are depicted below:
APFT Score Percent Passing Course
206-225 31
226-250 42
251-275 57
276 or higher 78
The higher the APFT score, the better the percent that passed the course. You need to be in top physical condition and you should do well in SFAS.
e. ARI evaluated the ability of SFAS students to perform a 4-mile ruckmarch in battle dress uniform (BDU), boots, M-16, load bearing equipment, and a 45-pound rucksack. The overall average 4-mile ruckmarch time for graduates is 61 minutes. The average PT results are depicted below:
Ruckmarch Time (Min) Percent Passing Course
54 and less 81
55-64 63
65-74 34
75-84 10
The less time to complete a 4-mile ruckmarch, the better the percent who passed the course. The Soldiers who prepare for SFAS through PT should succeed at SFAS.
Thanks, Sir/Kyo (?)!
Good additional knowledge for when the gym card runs out at the end of June.
Martin - who now has a heart rate monitor to try out tomorrow.
The Reaper
06-13-2005, 14:03
That is right out of the SFAS Prep Handbook.
I have posted it before myself.
Good info.
If you cannot complete the program successfully, or meet the standards that the ARI considered predictive, you should probably reconsider your SF options and prep harder, or find a new MOS.
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-13-2005, 14:52
[QUOTE=Kyobanim]
c. The sustaining stage is the third stage during which physical fitness is maintained. It is necessary to continue exercising at approximately the same intensity to retain the condition developed.
QUOTE]
Good post. It is the sustaining stage that becomes an increasingly difficult challenge with age. The target of the mind slips from what is desired to what is possible and recovery from minor injuries that were once an inconvenience becomes matter of impatient and imprudent attempts to deny the aging process so that sustaining actually becomes a giant "do-loop" of re-toughening, re-improving and re-sustaining at ever increasing frequencies of shorter and shorter duration. That and a lot of motrin/aspirin/flexeril and the understanding that it all beats a dirt nap!
Jack Moroney
Kyobanim
06-13-2005, 18:08
Col Jack, you got that right. Sometimes I think getting there was easier than keeping it there. My mind says you can do that and my body says who the hell are you talking to? :D
I must have snagged this when you posted it last time, TR. It's a good motivator even if you're not trying for SFAS.
Thank you for posting this. Several prior keyword searches hadn't yielded The Reaper's prior posting of this info (my error - failed to use proper keywords). The training suggestions re ruckmarching is enlightening; I hadn't integrated ruckmarches into my training regimen, but certainly will in the immediate future.
Best,
x95lee
You can find that info and more here
http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/sfas/
From my personal experience with the five week program, on areas where you are weak, you may need to spend a lot more time (to get 300). In my case, thats an understatement. I'm trying to get my pushups from 54 (already tired from running) to 71. If anyone has used a plan to do something like this that has worked, let me know. Right now I have a strategy of my own, but only time will tell.
I used the SFAS Prep program, and attribute my acceptable physical performance during Selection to following it. Keep in mind that when I felt capable, I would increase the standards set forth for each workout slightly to ensure the workout was sufficiently challenging (i.e. doing a 4hr ruck in 3:45, or running an 8 minute/mile run in 7:30). Note that I emphasized the word 'slightly'. The key is knowing what you're capable of doing, and trying to push just a little bit harder each time.
TFM, as for push-ups, my experience was that I could increase my repetitions by incorporating a variety of workouts, to include 3 sets of max reps in 2 mins/1 min/30 sec respectively (alternating push ups and sit ups for each time limit), doing 3-4 sets of 1/2 my rep max (again, alternating p/u and s/u), doing the same thing with wide, normal and narrow hand placement, doing a pyramid workout (this works well when done with a buddy; one pushes while one rests), and doing the old 'deck of cards' workout. One thing I did find for me, however, is that I had better push-up performance when I also included weight training in my workouts, rather than body-weight only exercise. The few times I abandoned weight training and did only push-up workouts, my APFT push-up max reps dropped by 5-7 reps. That's me, though; you need to experiment to see how your body adapts to various exercise. FWIW, I was never a big push up performer; I was of the lean/fast body type. I always scored between 290 and 300 on the APFT, maxing the run and sit ups easily, but really having to work to get close to max on the push ups. You just have to work with what you're given, genetically.
What I have recently started doing is this:
Max reps 2 min.
40-60 sec rest between sets
do as many as I can each set
total 4-5 sets
rest 8-10 minutes
repeat 4 times= about 300pushups
Thats where I'm at now.
I've tried a lot of other stuff, but my pushups seem to have the slowest improvement. Does this sound reasonable?
The Reaper
06-16-2005, 14:10
What I have recently started doing is this:
Max reps 2 min.
40-60 sec rest between sets
do as many as I can each set
total 4-5 sets
rest 8-10 minutes
repeat 4 times= about 300pushups
Thats where I'm at now.
I've tried a lot of other stuff, but my pushups seem to have the slowest improvement. Does this sound reasonable?
Focus on doing good push-ups, rather than a lot of bad push-ups.
TR
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-16-2005, 14:14
I
TFM, as for push-ups, The few times I abandoned weight training and did only push-up workouts, my APFT push-up max reps dropped by 5-7 reps. That's me, though; you need to experiment to see how your body adapts to various exercise. .
TFM-Razor is not alone in this aspect in prep for push-ups. I have had the same problem with cutting back on the weight training and doing only body weight training. For me push-ups were more a matter of endurance than strength-but strength gained through weight training also helped my endurance. When I was little I was routinely well over 300 lbs on my bench presses and was always able to max out on the push-ups. However, with deployments and duty requirements cutting into PT I found regardless of how many and what types of push ups I did I could not increase my output until I got back into a weight training routine in conjuction with normal PT. So for me to meet my own standards I had to incorporate weight training with normal push ups to continue to advance to the levels I wanted. I would give Razor's recommendation a try and I think you will be pleasanty surprised.
Jack Moroney
Will Do. For a while I was only doing the gym, and when I got down to do pushups I was disappointed. I figured I needed to do both, but juggling all this stuff has been hectic. Thanks for all the good advice.
Kyobanim
06-16-2005, 15:59
TFM, one more suggestion for you. Let someone else count your pushups. Then just zone out while you do them, sing a song in your head, anything to keep from counting. i'll bet you can physically increase the count but your mind is telling you that you've had enough.
Just a thought.
TFM, one more suggestion for you. Let someone else count your pushups. then divide that number by two...be hard on yourself...be very hard on yourself...
I don't know if anyone else does this, but if you know how many reps you want to do, as in my case where I am working on multiple sets of specific numbers of reps, start counting backwards when you hit the halfway mark. Especially on those last few, it's easier to visualize the finish line if you're thinking of low numbers instead of high ones. I know, it's entirely mental, but so is much of PT.
Dustin03
06-16-2005, 20:36
i've completed this workout a while back and was somewhat challenged my it. I'm now working on a new workout very simular to this six days a week and weight training 3 days a week.
I would like to know if anybody out there has a good swim workout for a novice swimmer. I can swim and i have good forms, but i tire easily and usually have to take it 25m at a time. This is just something extra to throw in to the mix and brake up the normal day to day routine.
The Dave
06-16-2005, 22:01
i've completed this workout a while back and was somewhat challenged my it. I'm now working on a new workout very simular to this six days a week and weight training 3 days a week.
I would like to know if anybody out there has a good swim workout for a novice swimmer. I can swim and i have good forms, but i tire easily and usually have to take it 25m at a time. This is just something extra to throw in to the mix and brake up the normal day to day routine.
Is it your legs, or arms that usually get tired when swimming? Or both? For me it was my legs, and I started to use a kickboard. Did that for a while, and it really helped me. When I first started swimming again, I would also try and go pretty fast, which was hurting my form. I slowed it down, made sure I had proper form, and seemed to glide a bit farther too.
Kickboards work well i also try to use fins(start out slowly or your ankles will hate you)..and break it up swim a lap with just your legs or arms with fins then with out..
Dustin03
06-16-2005, 22:41
great i'll got on that. my arms are the only thing that get somewhat tired, and i usually go into a sidestroke because for me it's a good recovery stroke. My big thing is i feel like im outta breath. When i run i dont lose my breath as fast as I do when i'm swimming, i mean 25m and i stop to catch my breath.
my arms are the only thing that get somewhat tired, and i usually go into a sidestroke because for me it's a good recovery stroke. My big thing is i feel like im outta breath. I have devoted a fair amount of time to research this as I have had the same problem. What I have found from the "experts" is that your legs should do most of the work (kick from the hip). Also, the more you breath the better. Exhale underwater, tilt your head to the side and inhale. Then back underwater. The position of your hands when you pull back on the stroke (90°) is also important as well as how far you extend the arm when you pull back (elbo should stay close to parallel with your side). I try to cut rest periods to less than 60 sec. The SFAS prep book says 500 meters minimum. Thats a start.
Start with this:
10 minute stretch
200 warm-up (any stroke)
4*50 sprint freestyle
2*200 kick w/ zoomers and board
2*200 freestyle w/ pull buoy
2*100 cool down (any stroke)
This adds up to 8/10 of a mile. If the workout is a stretch for you, add extra rest between sections but do not get out of the water until it is complete. Once you're comfortable with this (and your ankles, knees and hips have adjusted to the zoomers), slowly work up to this:
10 minute stretch
400 warm-up (any stroke)
8*50 sprint freestyle
5*200 kick w/ zoomers & board
4*200 freestyle w/ pull buoy
4*100 sprint w/ zoomers
200 cool-down
This adds up to about 1.8 miles. I do this (or a close variant) five days per week and it takes about an hour. After six months, I have lost 35 lbs of lard, gained muscle mass, and seen significant improvements to my flexibility and resistance to injury. I am now adding KBs into the mix again three days per week, as well. I run very little because I am old and somewhat injury prone, but YMMV and I am not headed to SFAS in the immediate future.
Peregrino
06-17-2005, 08:50
Sounds more like a Pre-SCUBA prep than a SFAS workout. Keep iy up and you'll need gills. :D Peregrino
Sounds more like a Pre-SCUBA prep than a SFAS workout. Keep iy up and you'll need gills. :D Peregrino
Tell me about it! Seriously, though, for some of these young bucks the goal of conditioning is "simply" to get to a high enough fitness level to be successful at SFAS. For me, it is to get to that level with the knowledge that I can maintain it without constant overuse injuries. This means gradual improvements in joint strength and extra focus on flexibility and strength throughout the entire range of motion. If I can't pull all that together, I'll need to find another way to serve my country. In the meantime, I'm working on my gills. :D
skipjack
06-17-2005, 12:49
Hey, had I known what Bones Fork Creek and Scuba Road were going to be like, that swimming might have prepared me better for SFAS...lol. Then I might have been a Star 1 "Go" instead of a Star 2 "Go". j/k. Any kind of training helps, and swimming is great training to incorporate into any workout, just don't put the Rucksack down and only focus on the swimming!
-skipjack
Dustin03
06-17-2005, 17:44
Start with this:
10 minute stretch
200 warm-up (any stroke)
4*50 sprint freestyle
2*200 kick w/ zoomers and board
2*200 freestyle w/ pull buoy
2*100 cool down (any stroke)
This adds up to 8/10 of a mile. If the workout is a stretch for you, add extra rest between sections but do not get out of the water until it is complete. Once you're comfortable with this (and your ankles, knees and hips have adjusted to the zoomers), slowly work up to this:
10 minute stretch
400 warm-up (any stroke)
8*50 sprint freestyle
5*200 kick w/ zoomers & board
4*200 freestyle w/ pull buoy
4*100 sprint w/ zoomers
200 cool-down
This adds up to about 1.8 miles. I do this (or a close variant) five days per week and it takes about an hour. After six months, I have lost 35 lbs of lard, gained muscle mass, and seen significant improvements to my flexibility and resistance to injury. I am now adding KBs into the mix again three days per week, as well. I run very little because I am old and somewhat injury prone, but YMMV and I am not headed to SFAS in the immediate future.
sounds solid, i'll give it a try, especially since my freakin shin splints came back today on a 4 mile run :( Any advice on these? I think it might be my shoes or the way i hve them tied (too tight)
i'm assuming by "zoomers" you mean rocket fins?
I think what part of my problem is i hold my breath for 4 strokes then when i tilt my head to breath i'm exhale/inhaling all at that one instance. I'll try and remember to blow out with my head still down.
Warrior-Mentor
06-17-2005, 18:01
I found this while cleaning out my hard drive and thought someone might benefit from it. I can't remember where I found it or if it has been posted here before.
Attaining physical fitness is not an overnight process; the body must go through three stages:
a. The first is the toughening stage
b. The slow improvement stage
c. The sustaining stage is the third stage
The Soldiers who prepare for SFAS through PT should succeed at SFAS.
This is from the booklet the SF Recruiters were giving out back in 1995 when I was getting ready for SFAS. It's a good starting point, but since then MSG Rex Dodson and I have written a guide to preparing for SFAS that takes this booklet and puts it on steroids (for lack of a better analogy - NOT that we endorse steroids).
GET SELECTED FOR SPECIAL FORCES: How to Successfully Train for and Complete Assessment and Selection is the product of the lessons learned preparing inexperienced soldiers (18Xs) for SFAS. It goes into detail of what you must know to succeed.
There are 7 reasons why people fail at SFAS. One of the problems with the booklet was that it only addresses 2 of the 7 reasons (PT and Land Nav). 2 out of 7 is 28%...which explains why only about 30-35% of candidates pass SFAS...compared with SOPC where they graduate at 70% or higher...more than double that active duty enlisted average!
Reverse engineering was the key. We identified all of the reasons why people were unsuccessful, then developed comprehensive plans to minimize or eliminate each of the factors and voila, a formula for success. How else could we train 18Xs to the level that at SFAS we consistently have some finish higher than Active Duty Infantry Officers?
Want the details? Read Chapter 5 in GET SELECTED FOR SPECIAL FORCES available from the Special Operations Warrior Foundation's Web Site at www.specialops.org
sounds solid, i'll give it a try, especially since my freakin shin splints came back today on a 4 mile run :( Any advice on these? I think it might be my shoes or the way i hve them tied (too tight)
i'm assuming by "zoomers" you mean rocket fins?
I think what part of my problem is i hold my breath for 4 strokes then when i tilt my head to breath i'm exhale/inhaling all at that one instance. I'll try and remember to blow out with my head still down.
Dustin, you should get checked to make sure that you don't have a stress fracture. Other than that, I am no running coach, but you might get good results from "running" using an AquaJogger - it basically holds you upright while you "run" in deep water. You will maintain most of your running-specific fitness while your body heals. Just something to consider, it has helped me through previous injuries. Plus, it has the added benefit of looking like a giant blue styrofoam diaper. :D
In re: Zoomers, they are a brand of fin, much shorter in length than dive fins and they'll give you a good workout wihout disrupting your entire stroke. They also place less stress on your knees and ankles. I like them a lot and am a big believer in finning for general fitness and flexibility.
If you are having problems with stroke mechanics, find a local Y or masters swim team and take a couple of lessons. You should be breathing every other stroke in the pool, every third stroke in open water if you are bilateral breathing. Every four strokes must be hellish, especially if your stroke is still coming together. This should be an easy issue to overcome, though. You might also ask the coach to teach you some drills designed to improve stroke efficiency and your skulling motion, which you can practice during your warm-ups and cool-downs.
Take care of those shin splints and good luck!
Warrior-Mentor
06-17-2005, 22:34
sounds solid, i'll give it a try, especially since my freakin shin splints came back today on a 4 mile run :( Any advice on these? I think it might be my shoes or the way i hve them tied (too tight)
Here's the deal on SHIN SPLINTS...
First, you probably aren't stretching your CALVES sufficiently before AND after each of your runs. The best way to stretch your calf is to stand with your toes on a curb and your heel on the street and lean into it. Another way is to get into a push up position, then, keeping your knees lock straight, walk your hands closer to your feet until your heels almost touch the ground. Hold this for 10-15 seconds and slowly let it out. Repeat.
Second, AGE matters. Not your age either. When's the last time you bought a pair of RUNNING SHOES? If they're over 6 months old, you're due for a new pair. Every time I get shin splints, it's because my shoes are worn out.
Third, SIZE matters. When you buy the running shoes, make sure they're the right size. Don't measure size with a Brannock Device (the metal measuring device at shoe stores). You must go off feel, not the size. Different manufacturers have different standards for size. Remember, your feet expand from the pounding when you run, so you need the size to accomodate for it.
What's the right size for a running shoe?
The rule of thumb is to keep trying on bigger and bigger sizes until the shoes feel like clown feet. then go back down a 1/2 size and you have the correct size. I got this tip from Phil Maffetone, who coached the World Ultra Distance record Holder, Stu Mittleman (www.worldultrafit.com/whois.html). Trust me it works.
Fourth, what SURFACE are you running on? Concrete (side walks) is the hardest and worst for your legs, knees, etc. Asphalt (roads) is a close second. The best is a soft surface like grass or sand. Consider changing your route to a softer area.
Fifth, consider changing your CARDIO CYCLE (how often you do what types of exercise). You can still do Cardio everyday (or almost everyday) as you like. Just minimze the impact cardio. Instead of running, get on an elliptical trainer. Take a bike ride once a week. Swim. Anything that lets you get the heart rate up without pounding on your shins until your body has a chance to strech the calves out again and reduce the swelling in your shins.
Finally, RICE is the doctor approved method for recovery. RICE works (Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation). Ice your shins for a couple minutes every night and elevate them above your heart while watching TV or sleeping.
Want to know more about foot care and reducing or preventing injuries? Read Chapters 8 and 9 in GET SELECTED FOR SPECIAL FORCES available from the Special Operations Warrior Foundation at http://www.specialops.org/news.asp#book
Dustin03
06-18-2005, 11:59
wow, thanks gentlemen, It's always great to get info from the men that have been there and know what it takes to get ready for SF. This has got to be some of the best information I have been given in a while. I'm going to print this off and share with some of the guys I know also getting prepared.
The book will be on order Monday AM sir.
If you are having problems with stroke mechanics, find a local Y or masters swim team and take a couple of lessons. You should be breathing every other stroke in the pool, every third stroke in open water if you are bilateral breathing. Every four strokes must be hellish, especially if your stroke is still coming together. This should be an easy issue to overcome, though. You might also ask the coach to teach you some drills designed to improve stroke efficiency and your skulling motion, which you can practice during your warm-ups and cool-downs.
Take care of those shin splints and good luck!
Jatx,
I'm actually more of a fan of bilateral breathing when you're even just working out which would force you to breathe every 3rd stroke, unless we're just having stroke counting issues which happens. But if you breathe consistantly to the same side you can either A)develop a hitch in your stroke which reduces effiency or B)put more stress on the off shoulder because when you breathe you typically push harder with the opposite arm so it increases the stress on the rotator cuff. Sorry I'm just getting involved in the swimming discussion now but I missed this topic earlier. Since my winter job is coaching high school swimming I figured I'd toss in my .02. If anyone has specific questions either making up a workout or stroke issues feel free to PM me.
Dustin03
06-21-2005, 14:03
well here is an update...changed some things around and took some time off over the weekend. Ran 3 miles and had very very little problems with my shins and when it came to swimming, changing up my breathing seemed to help out a lot. I wasnt gasping for air like a fish outta water.
Thanks again, and I am about to go on a short ruck (4 miles), I'll let ya know if I'm having any more problems.
Broadsword, no offense, but did you read the first post in this thread? That's a really good start. I'm guessing the book that Warrior-Mentor wrote would be a great reference, too. There's no secret, no magic formula that will guarantee success, but we've already discussed tips and concepts here that can certainly help, if you're willing to put a little effort into finding them, and a lot of effort into preparing yourself with them.
Dustin03
06-21-2005, 17:42
so there i was.......LOL, this girl i met at a bar the other night wanted me to stop by on my way to workout, so i did but I told her that I had to go very soon. We where sitting there talking and a voice popped in my head, it said "...women weaken the legs, Rock" I am so serious.
I just thought i'd mention this because often times it is very tempting to skip a workout because something else might look better, more fun, w/e. Dont let things get in your way of reaching your goals. If it's a woman and she isnt willing to put up with the fact that you have training to get done, maybe you need to have a long talk with her or kick her to the curb. Dont let a "fun night out with hte guys drinking" leave you so hungover the next day that you cant go workout. Set priorities for yourself and look at things from a "how will this help me get better" view.
Another thing I always say to myself is "Hooah never quiet". Air Force PJ trainies say this all the time. It's everywhere they go. It's simple, short, and those three little words can help get me through the toughest of ruck marches, or that last nagging set of pushups.
These where just some things on my mind, hope it wasnt outta line.
Peregrino
06-21-2005, 17:57
Another thing I always say to myself is "Hooah never quiet". Air Force PJ trainies say this all the time. It's everywhere they go. It's simple, short, and those three little words can help get me through the toughest of ruck marches, or that last nagging set of pushups.
These where just some things on my mind, hope it wasnt outta line.
You've got that one right - the boogers are NEVER quiet - and most of the time they never quit either. :D Peregrino
Dustin03
06-21-2005, 18:42
hey hey, im just a dumb redneck from the sticks of MS, you know that thur spelln aint our strong point
Jatx,
I'm actually more of a fan of bilateral breathing when you're even just working out which would force you to breathe every 3rd stroke, unless we're just having stroke counting issues which happens. But if you breathe consistantly to the same side you can either A)develop a hitch in your stroke which reduces effiency or B)put more stress on the off shoulder because when you breathe you typically push harder with the opposite arm so it increases the stress on the rotator cuff. Sorry I'm just getting involved in the swimming discussion now but I missed this topic earlier. Since my winter job is coaching high school swimming I figured I'd toss in my .02. If anyone has specific questions either making up a workout or stroke issues feel free to PM me.
Good points all around, Jon. I learned bilateral breathing to help me stay on course during really long ocean swims, but just never got into the habit of using it in the pool. Sounds like something to try, and my neck might thank me. Thanks!
Dustin03
06-22-2005, 15:52
hey, since this thread is getting to be a big hit, what would you all say about posting notes of your workout you did, what you did, and advice or comments you have/need? I'll start:
rucked 4 miles in 56:47 without shuffling. shin splints still hurt like a mutha, feet held up well. Packing your ruck the right way makes ALL the difference IMO.
Gym time, WEDS are arms/shoulders. variety of exercises, stayed focused and pushed myself with some extra weight on the bars today. trying to put some meat on my bones for those team events, log/rifle pt.
PT:repeat 5 times, push-ups 40
crunches 25
sit ups 25
push-ups 20
flutter kicks 50
towl pull-ups 10
towl pull-ups are great for grip, upper body and forarms. a great sub. if ya dont have a rope to practice climbing.
tomorrow I'm gonna swim instead of run, to give my shins time to rest and recover. Gonna attempt the swim workout that was mentioned in a previous post. How often would you ice your shins?
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 16:01
Dustin:
Admirable, but your marks need to be better. Bump the numbers by five per exercise each week.
You need to be hitting 80-100 perfect push-ups and sit-ups, under 7:00 miles for running up to six miles, and rucking under 14:00 miles in difficult terrain (deep sand, hot, humid, and uphill, after a PT Test) for up to 12 miles.
Your towel pull-ups may help build your arms, but a smart man climbs ropes with his legs. They are much bigger than your arms and have a lot more endurance.
Just my .02.
TR
Dustin03
06-22-2005, 16:47
WILCO sir, moving out accordingly. Also, this isnt my everyday routine, it changes from day to day. Only thing that stays the same is weight training, mons/weds/fri, doing legs/arms,shoulders/chest, back respectfully. I alternate running or rucking every day, but never the same 2 days in a row, and never run less then 2 miles. I swim on run days or swim to replace a run if my shin splints are enough to slow me down. finally i do sprint work on mondays and fridays. So basically the only thing that changes is the PT portion 6 days a week. But like I said, i will bump the numbers up each week.
The Reaper
06-23-2005, 10:21
That's some advice (bumping the numbers) that I'll need to follow. I am wondering though, with regards to running miles, I do not have any access to treadmills or tracks at the moment to measure the distance I run. Instead, I go to a baseball field and run it really fast all the way from one end to the other, then jog back to recover, then run it really fast back down, etc....about how many times, on average, should I do this to develop the endurance to maintain a 7 min/mile pace for 6 miles?
You will not make a 7:00/mile pace by jogging at all.
Find a local school with a 440 track and run for time. Most schools have tracks.
Get a partner who is slightly faster than you and run with him.
Search the board here for additional running tips.
TR
Instead, I go to a baseball field and run it really fast all the way from one end to the other, then jog back to recover, then run it really fast back down, etc....about how many times, on average, should I do this to develop the endurance to maintain a 7 min/mile pace for 6 miles?what you are doing is fartlek training...a good way to develop speed for endurance runners...not necessarily good for developing endurance...when done with a sadistic training partner (one with more endurance and speed than you) fartleks do a great job of developing the muscle between the ears...
a little light reading...
http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/fartlek.htm
so the only track is about a 45 minute walk from here is the problem. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to walk it. It'll be good exercise. Thanks for the information.jog over, do your workout, jog home...just my $0.02...the run over and back will be a good warm-up and cool-down, assuming the distance is around 2.5-3 miles...
Dustin03
06-23-2005, 12:25
Well, I have no friends to run with nor any car nor any bike, so the only track is about a 45 minute walk from here is the problem. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to walk it. It'll be good exercise. Thanks for the information.
Went to a bar last weekend with an old friend of mine who is in the reserves. he brought a buddy along who is in the nasty guard as well. Got to talking to his buddy and when he asked what I do with the national guard he was impressed. I told him about comming over to my unit. He said " i dont know if i'm cut out for that, but I would love to work out with you, i really need to get in shape" Now he has been at the gym right by my side every day this week, hanging in there with me.
Every time I go to the gym, i usually talk to somebody. You'd be surprised at how many people out there would be willing to help you out.
Now go make friends :cool:
The Reaper
06-23-2005, 14:27
Well, I have no friends to run with nor any car nor any bike, so the only track is about a 45 minute walk from here is the problem. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to walk it. It'll be good exercise. Thanks for the information.
Ruck over.
Deruck.
Run.
Reruck.
Ruck home.
Repeat as needed.
Do not run with the ruck, and I would avoid rucking down steep, irregular surfaces.
TR
Is there perchance a road nearby? You could always ask a family member/friend to drive you on the road, and you could jump out at selected intervals (based off the vehicle odometer) with some marking tape to put on a nearby tree/phone pole, or with spray paint to hit a couple rocks so you know how far you've gone, and when to turn around. You could do the same thing by borrowing a buddy's bicycle with an odometer. Get your pacecount for 100m (go use a local football field), then use that to measure distance. That'll be good practice for land nav, and give your mind something to focus upon besides pain or boredom. Go to mapquest.com and enter your address and a couple local addresses, then use the 'get directions' feature to tell you how far away they are (by road). In essence, find another way to solve your current unknown distance problem; there are plenty out there if you think about it.
Dustin03
06-23-2005, 15:00
Is there perchance a road nearby? You could always ask a family member/friend to drive you on the road, and you could jump out at selected intervals (based off the vehicle odometer) with some marking tape to put on a nearby tree/phone pole, or with spray paint to hit a couple rocks so you know how far you've gone, and when to turn around. You could do the same thing by borrowing a buddy's bicycle with an odometer. Get your pacecount for 100m (go use a local football field), then use that to measure distance. That'll be good practice for land nav, and give your mind something to focus upon besides pain or boredom. Go to mapquest.com and enter your address and a couple local addresses, then use the 'get directions' feature to tell you how far away they are (by road). In essence, find another way to solve your current unknown distance problem; there are plenty out there if you think about it.
Sir the only problem I see with him using a football field, is that there is a slight difference in yards and meters (1 yard = 0.91 meters) which would make a 100 yard football field = 91.44 meters. Now if I remember correctly, and the lines are still marked, starting from the back of the endzone (not always the goal post either) and going to the end of the opposite endzone would make 110 yards, resulting in 100.5 meters. That has got to be the nerdiest thing I ever figured up, courtesy of www.onlineconversion.com
Also, basically what the professionals are saying is....think outside the box. You have an obstical, are you gonna let it stop you or will you see it as an opportunity for success? The ball is in your court, now get creative with it. I'll give you an example. At first I thought all I had to run around here was 1/4 mile tracks, or long flat marked trails. Well one day I was going to camp with some buddies in the local state park. Everything is pretty much flat here. Well, I get to the park and I'm driving through, and I notice that there are some serious hills. My 4-banger ford also let me know that these weren't small hills either. Next I noticed markings on the road, so I investigate. Sure enough, they where markings for 1 mile intervals painted on the road, to double check i set my odometer between marks. I also knew that local cross country teams at area high schools have meets out here, and that the trail extends all the way around the lake, covering hills, dirt, sand, gravel, pavement, and only half of the course is in shade. Where do you think I spend my time running/rucking now?
Sorry if i'm over stepping my small boundries gentlemen, standing by to push accordingly if needed.
BTW lksteve, so you mean fartlek runs will help you if say, you can only run two miles, fartleks will help you run that two miles faster, but fartleks won't help you gain the endurance for running more miles?well, you'd be hard pressed or hard corps to do three or four miles of fartlek...look at the variety of workouts on the website i posted...there are differing speeds that you can run at...when i was a platoon trainer in IOBC, we would start off with the first mile at about an 8 minute pace...second mile would be at a 6:30 pace, third mile back down to 8 minutes, fourth mile at 7 minutes, last mile at 8 minutes...within about a month, we were starting at a 7:30 pace, dropping down to sub-six minute miles, slowing to seven minutes, dropping down to six minutes, maybe six and a quarter, then slowing down to 6:45, with a cool-down mile at seven and a half minutes...i used to get called on the carpet because my platoons didn't call cadence...that's life at the Infantile Center...at the end of an IOBC class, my 32 year old ass was hard pressed to push a bunch of 23 year old lieutenants who had been trained by a sadistic SF type, but that was part of the reward... :D
that's one way to use the technique...another way is to run a mile at an 8 minute pace then run quarters alternating between a 1:30 quarter and 2:00 quarter...do that for two miles...run another mile at 8 minutes...after you toughen to that, up the pace, increase the distance...run a mile and a half at a 7:45 per mile pace, run a quarter at 1:25, another at 1:50...whatever works for you...the trick is you have to identify a training site to facilitate this...the distances don't have to be exact...you can run fartleks by time, especially if you have one of those beeping watches with interval timers...you can use fire hydrants, crosswalks, trees, any landmark to start and end your intervals...
if you do six miles of speed interval training, varying your speed, you will increase your speed over six miles provided you never run slower than your current speed...you can cheat yourself doing fartleks...i know some guys that run a really smoking interval, but will slow to 9 minutes between intervals...this isn't going to get you where you are going...fartleks are all about pushing your limits...if you normally run 7:45 miles, you can slow to, maybe 8:15 between intervals, but you'd better be pushing 6:45 or 7:00 to get anything out of the enterprise...
if you can find a track, or since you use a baseball field for speed work, you can do this...run four laps (on the track or six laps around the warning track on a baseball field) at a warm-up pace...spring the straight aways-foul lines, run the curves...do this for sixteen laps on a track (24 laps on a baseball field)...add this regimen to your workout once a week...
another option...time yourself around the track or the baseball field, while you are running at your PT test pace...on a track, you should be able to determine your mile speed...anyway, if you are running 7 minute miles, you need to jog a quarter at 2:00, run a quarter at 1:30 (your target speed should be no slower than 6:00 miles)...on a baseball field, you are going to have to adapt...maybe if you are running a 7 minute pace around the field, you'll finish a lap in 1:30...those are you base speeds and you need to proportion your speed work to hit a 6 minute mile...that would be a 1:15 lap around the baseball field...
fartleks are a sloooooooow way to build endurance, but an effective way to increase speed...to gain speed and endurance, you have to alternate your work outs...i don't know how far you are from reaching your speed goal, but i'd incorporate fartleks into my training a couple of days a week...one time do a mile at a quicker pace than normal, then next time you do them, increase the speed but shorten the distance for you speed intervals...
for goodness sake, if you are aiming at a career in SF, you are going to have to learn to improvise...take a can of spray paint...pace off 400 meters, make a mark...pace off another 400 meters, make a mark...do this along a route you normally run...
another $0.02 observation...quit looking at the obstacles and start looking for solutions...a Special Forces soldier spends most of his time overcoming inconvenience to get things done...no time like the present to start doing just that...
i hate to sound crass or coarse, but i got mine...you need to figure out how to get yours...but keep us posted, we can help...you are in a situation where you need to be creative...that should help in the long run...
...starting from the back of the endzone (not always the goal post either) and going to the end of the opposite endzone would make 110 yards, resulting in 100.5 meters.
Exactly.
Sir the only problem I see with him using a football field, is that there is a slight difference in yards and meters (1 yard = 0.91 meters) which would make a 100 yard football field = 91.44 meters. Now if I remember correctly, and the lines are still marked, starting from the back of the endzone (not always the goal post either) and going to the end of the opposite endzone would make 110 yards, resulting in 100.5 meters. That has got to be the nerdiest thing I ever figured up, courtesy of www.onlineconversion.comscrew the metric-SAE conversion...go run...do push-ups...make something happen... :munchin
Sacamuelas
06-23-2005, 17:09
Well, I have no friends ...
What is this? Did RL take a new username? ;) LOL
BS2004-
You are not showing any aptitude for operating in an ambiguous environment. TO be frank, this topic isn't very ambiguous either. Are you really having this much trouble figuring out how to do your PT... Does it really take the advice of several experienced QP's just to make you sure of yourself? :confused:
I'm not gonna give advice about rucking... but I know you have been given enough to do in this thread to keep you busy for a while. When you hit your personal best times (in your opinion), then come back and ask another fifty questions on how to get over the plateau. Until then, you are just typing instead of running/rucking/strength training. If you have any more questions on this topic... I suggest you click this link first for your answer.
CLICK THIS (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=973)
Good Luck
Dustin03
06-23-2005, 17:47
another good link for a lot of the new guys here looking for "the magic trick" is to check out THIS THREAD (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194&highlight=training+mind) posted by Mr. NDD.
Did my first 1000M swim today.......bilateral breathing is the friggin' heat compared to what i was doing. thanks again to all the great advice on swimming.
I do have a question about the fartalik(sp?) running. Is it safe to say, you can increase the distance, or the time, or the speed, but never all three at once?
I do have a question about the fartalik(sp?) running. Is it safe to say, you can increase the distance, or the time, or the speed, but never all three at once?fartlek....is it safe? you will not explode if you increase the distance, speed and time on the same day...you may not feel like working out the next day, though...it depends...if you are in decent shape and pretty close to your fitness goal (6:00 miles or faster), then you could easily increase time, speed and distance from workout to workout...if you are struggling to gain speed, a more conservative approach should be taken...push yourself, firmly, but gently...then once you start to feel comfortable, push harder...Mr. NDDhell, just go ahead and call him 'Sir'... :munchin
BTW, Sacamuelas when I click the link you provided, it says I do not have the priviledges to open that page. Do I need permission from a moderator or something?don't feel left out...same happened to me... :confused:
Sacamuelas
06-25-2005, 08:41
BTW, Sacamuelas when I click the link you provided, it says I do not have the priviledges to open that page. Do I need permission from a moderator or something?
I fixed it. You could not see the original, the one now should be viewable.
Good Luck and :lifter hard!!!
sterling
06-26-2005, 12:54
Well yeah, that's the problem though, I have no method of transportation right now and I live out in the boonies essentially, so there are no buses or trains or anything, like in a city.
I did walk over to the track though, only to find that it is locked with a sign saying "Trespassers will be prosecuted, blah blah blah" (i.e. Keep out). I don't know why'd they'd lock up the track, though. It's just a track, after all. I'm going to go back tomorrow; maybe it gets locked up around 2:00 or something, but is open earlier in the day. I'll have to check.
I have a great place to ruck, completely out in the sun with very rough terrain that goes uphill; it only goes for about one-half of a mile, but I figure I would just ruck it, then turn around, ruck back, then turn around, ruck back, etc....to count up miles. If I get desparate for running, I'll just use one of the really big fields and run circles around that.
Thanks for the advice though.
Here is an idea. Call the Track Administrator, Track Coach or Athletic Director and ask what the public use hours are for the track. Always remember stay out of the first three lanes, nothing pisses off the track team more than someone they view as just some "Pin Chi" jogger getting in their way while they do speed work.
Yeah, I'll have to check into that. Hey Sacamuelas, the link you provided shows a picture of a guy in a pushup position......is that what it is supposed to show?i see a guy doing push-ups...and i believe that would be Sacamuelas' advice to you...start with 50 or so and keep doing them until i get tired... :munchin
Dustin03
07-07-2005, 19:31
Is running until I throw-up, then working out right after until I throw-up a good thing? I think it might have been because of the chicken I ate about 45 minutes before, but I haven't worked THAT hard in a long time.
I can usually hold down anything that wants to come back up, but for some reason today was different.
Is running until I throw-up, then working out right after until I throw-up a good thing? no...you need food...you should either PT before you eat or give yourself some time to digest before you work out...were i you, i'd probably do a little research online...do a little Google-fu as TR might point out...
NousDefionsDoc
07-07-2005, 21:25
Is running until I throw-up, then working out right after until I throw-up a good thing? I think it might have been because of the chicken I ate about 45 minutes before, but I haven't worked THAT hard in a long time.
I can usually hold down anything that wants to come back up, but for some reason today was different.
DAMN son, what the hell's the matter with you? Wait at least two hours after you eat before running. Ideally, you should workout before you eat or just eat a little power bar or something if you can't wait. You ate while watching tv and then went to run when the show was over didn't you?
Dustin03
07-07-2005, 23:00
no sir, i was sitting here at the computer, eating some chicken fingers, drinking water, and then i decided it's about as hot as it's gonna get today so I think I'll go run. It was all of about 40 minutes from the time I took my last bite to the time I hit the track. I just had a lot on my mind and felt that if I run extra hard, it would relieve some stress. Well, I ran a mile in 6:44....it normally takes me just over 7:14 a mile.
In the gym, I did a totally different workout. I ran into a Warrent Officer that I met through another friend at the bar this past weekend and he asked if I wanted to jump in with him and his buddy.....well me being young, dumb and full of.....eagerness jumped at the oppurtunity. Let's just say I was smoked harder then I've been in a LONG time. We had all the Air Force kids stairing at us like we where freaks. The cool thing is, he actually knew a few people from my unit, and almost joined, but decided flying helo's was better.
Anyway, I feel better now, just tired....more tired then usual. I'm gonna do some research on overtraining, one of my buddies mentioned that to me tonight, because he said I look like damnit and he thinks I might be pushing to hard. Of course, he's in a leg artillary unit...go figure.. :rolleyes:
Dustin03
07-07-2005, 23:27
http://www.buildingbodies.ca/Weights/Overtraining.shtml
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C377714.html
and finally,
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/injuryprevention/a/aa040600a.htm
Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome
Are you exercising too much?
Overtraining occurs when athletes try too hard to improve performance and train beyond the body's ability to recover.
The common warning signs of overtraining include the following:
Mild leg soreness, general achiness
Pain in muscles & joints
Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
Sudden drop in ability to run ‘normal’ distance or times
Insomnia
Headaches
Inability to relax, twitchy, fidgety
Insatiable thirst, dehydration
Lowered resistance to common illnesses; colds, sore throat, etc.
What do I do if I have some of these Warning Signs?
If your suffering from several of these warning signs go see your physician so that any potentially serious problem can be ruled out.
Otherwise, just stop & rest, take a few days off. Drink plenty of fluids, check & alter your diet if necessary. Maybe plan an alternate work-out routine so that your not constantly working just the same muscle groups. If you don’t receive consistant massage work, this would be a good time to get one or two sessions to help flush metabolic wastes out of your system and help loosen up. To prevent further overtraining injuries, check out some of the more common overuse factors associated. You may need to modify all or part of what you’re doing. If you suffer an injury during a workout, just remember RICE, this could save you alot of pain, discomfort, and a long recuperative layoff.
no sir, i was sitting here at the computer, eating some chicken fingers, drinking water, and then i decided it's about as hot as it's gonna get today so I think I'll go run. an effective PT program has to be planned...spur of the moment work outs might assuage any guilt you may have, but if you plan your work and work your plan, you will be better satified with the results...
an effective PT program has to be planned...
There it is.
Not a scuba guy but the "plan your dive and dive your plan" is good advice for anybody.
ROTFL at NDD's reply.
Doc
Warrior-Mentor
07-10-2005, 00:11
Puking should not be viewed as a normal training event. I've only puked twice while running...once from dehydration (I was stupid and took nasal decongestants before a 5 mile formation run) and once from eating while running (powerbars during a marathon).
Read Stu Mittleman's book SLOW BURN. If I remember correctly, he recommends a training heart rate at 180 minus your age. Once you read it, you'l understand why. If you're forcing yourself to hold down vomit everytime you run, you're over training.
Getting in shape doesn't happen over night.
I have a real quick question, I searched through the board and I tried google but I can't really find the answer. My question is: Is it be better to do cardio work before or after I do my weights and PT?
Currently my weakest point is running/rucking, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance guys.
Dustin03
07-13-2005, 10:40
I've heard it both ways to be honest. This may just be an opinion type issue. I know growing up, in 6 seasons of sports it seems like we always did our weight training first before heading out to do sprints. I'm sure you can look harder and find something...like THIS (http://webk.ask.com/redir?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftm.wc.ask.com%2Fr%3Ft%3Dan%26 s%3Dk3%26sv%3Dza5cb0dd8%26uid%3D049404A56A9645D24% 26sid%3D3187416cf187416cf%26o%3D0%26qid%3DED146E4C 4A7C48478507C189BFF67D5F%26io%3D0%26ask%3Dshould%2 Byou%2Bdo%2Bweight%2Btraining%2Bor%2Bcardio%2Bfirs t%26uip%3D187416cf%26en%3Dte%26eo%3D-100%26pt%3DFitness%2520Tips%2520-%2520Why%2520You%2520Should%2520Do%2520Weight%2520 Training%2520Before%2520Cardio%26ac%3D24%26qs%3D0% 26pg%3D1%26ep%3D1%26te_par%3D102%26te_id%3D%26u%3D http%253a%252f%252fwww.aaronspersonaltraining.com% 252ffitness_tips_1.html&bpg=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.ask.com%2Fweb%3Fq%3Dshould%2B you%2Bdo%2Bweight%2Btraining%2Bor%2Bcardio%2Bfirst %26o%3D0%26page%3D1&q=should%20you%20do%20weight%20training%20or%20car dio%20first&s=k3&bu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.aaronspersonaltraining.com%2ff itness_tips_1.html&qte=0&o=0&abs=Fitness%20Tips%20-%20Why%20You%20Should%20Do%20Weight%20Training%20B efore%20Cardio%20...%20The%20FIRST%20and%20ONLY%20 Nutritional%20Program%20that%20Creates%20BALANCED% 20Meal%20Plans%20Using...&tit=Fitness%20Tips%20-%20Why%20You%20Should%20Do%20Weight%20Training%20B efore%20Cardio&bin=&cat=wb&purl=http%3A%2F%2Ftm.wc.ask.com%2Fi%2Fb.html%3Ft%3 Dan%26s%3Dk3%26uid%3D049404A56A9645D24%26sid%3D318 7416cf187416cf%26qid%3DED146E4C4A7C48478507C189BFF 67D5F%26io%3D%26sv%3Dza5cb0dd8%26o%3D0%26ask%3Dsho uld%2Byou%2Bdo%2Bweight%2Btraining%2Bor%2Bcardio%2 Bfirst%26uip%3D187416cf%26en%3Dbm%26eo%3D-100%26pt%3D%26ac%3D18%26qs%3D0%26pg%3D1%26u%3Dhttp %3A%2F%2Fmyjeeves.ask.com%2Faction%2Fsnip&Complete=1)
Took all of maybe 5 seconds with askjeeves
aricbcool
07-13-2005, 18:42
I have a real quick question, I searched through the board and I tried google but I can't really find the answer. My question is: Is it be better to do cardio work before or after I do my weights and PT?
Currently my weakest point is running/rucking, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance guys.
This question is also addressed in WM's book: Get Selected for Special Forces
Check out this thread: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7239
If you don't have the book yet, get it. :)
--Aric
Took all of maybe 5 seconds with askjeeveswhat does losing body fat have to do with rucking and running...? i've know some chubby guys with an ounce or two more body fat than i carried on my bony butt that could ruck me into the ground ( i could run circles around them, but i never wore running shoes and shorts when i thought someone might bust a cap in my direction)...the advise is not necessarily bad, but it is geared toward a goal of body fat loss...that is not the issue raised here...
Currently my weakest point is running/rucking, if that makes a difference.
now i am not sure what it means when one has weak points regarding running and rucking...it could mean one is slow, it could mean one has a problem with the weight of a rucksack when walking at forced march speeds...i suspect the issue is speed...if increasing footspeed while maintaining strength is the goal, i found split work outs to be best...stretch, warm-up, do resistance training and endurance training, then at another workout, do fartleks or other speed interval training...windsprints are really not going to get you where you are going...i recommend fartleks...
a static, cookie-cutter workout will not develop both strength and endurance...your program has to be varied to develop all the tools you will need for SF training and life beyond that...
if the problem is speed of movement with a rucksack on your back, i don't have an easy answer for you...i was 5'8", 140# when i went through training group...rucking was not my favorite pastime...( i retired at 5'8", 175#...a lot of time in the weight room...my run times suffered a bit but rucking was easier at that weight)...a combination of weight training, running, and rucking improved, although the truth be known, while i was never comfortable rucking at the speeds we had to move in SFQC, i never had a problem keeping up...there just twelve million other things i would have rather done at the time (exceptions involve connexes, wire brushes, grease traps, toothbrushes, push mowers and the grass around the 82nd Airborne Division museum)
rucking while maintaining adequate cardio fitness isn't a problem...achieving a weight that allows you to move effeciently with weight on your back and still run fast enough to score what you need on the APFT requires a fine balance for a lot of folks...i was fortunate...even after gaining 35 pounds (over 15 years in weight rooms), i still had whatever innate running speed i had all along, and carrying a ruck over hill and dale was easier...
so are you slow or are you weak...? :munchin
rucking while maintaining adequate cardio fitness isn't a problem...achieving a weight that allows you to move effeciently with weight on your back and still run fast enough to score what you need on the APFT requires a fine balance for a lot of folks...i was fortunate...even after gaining 35 pounds (over 15 years in weight rooms), i still had whatever innate running speed i had all along, and carrying a ruck over hill and dale was easier...
so are you slow or are you weak...? :munchin
Sir,
My problem is neither speed nor weakness, its more of an endurance problem. My 2 mile run time is about 13:30 but once I'm beyond around 3 and a half miles I just die, I have a feeling it's just a need to get more mileage in.I have the same problem with rucking, once I'm beyond 6 or 7 miles I just hit a wall.
That's why I would consider it my weak point. I was asking the question from an endurance perspective, ie would it help my endurance more to lift then run because of the energy expended lifting qould make the run harder, or does it make more sense to run then lift a little later.
I still have at least a year before I plan on shipping out so there's plenty of time to rectify the situation. Thanks for the advice on the spilt workouts, I'll try those until classes start and see how they help.
Jon
My problem is neither speed nor weakness, its more of an endurance problem. My 2 mile run time is about 13:30 but once I'm beyond around 3 and a half miles I just die, I have a feeling it's just a need to get more mileage in.I have the same problem with rucking, once I'm beyond 6 or 7 miles I just hit a wall. i was running better than 13:30 as a 40 year-old arthritic with sciatica, usually dragging my right leg behind me...you could use a little more speed at 2 miles...i'd bet WM could tell you your odds of making SFAS with that sort of 2-mile time...probably in his book...
it seems like you have 2-mile fixation...at least once a week, put down the stop-watch and run longer distances...measure out five miles...don't look at your watch...finish five miles...once a week, when you are rucking, put the stop watch away....ruck twelve miles...don't look at your watch...during the other days, add speed and strength routines to your workout...as time progresses, add distance to your runs and rucks...once in a while, start timing yourself at the longer distances...
I was asking the question from an endurance perspective, ie would it help my endurance more to lift then run because of the energy expended lifting qould make the run harder, or does it make more sense to run then lift a little later.
I still have at least a year before I plan on shipping out so there's plenty of time to rectify the situation. Thanks for the advice on the spilt workouts, I'll try those until classes start and see how they help.as far as making the run harder by lifting first, what you are more likely to do is exhaust yourself...keep strength training separate from cardio training for awhile...there will come a time when the nice folks at Fort Bragg will integrate strength and cardio training into some rather interesting workouts...right now, you need to condition for both, but there is no sense in practicing bleeding...that will come in due time...you will build endurance by increasing the distances you run and ruck...you need to be mindful of speed as well...being able to ruck 45 miles is great...if you can meet an imposed time standard...i know guys that could probably run farther than i could back in the day, but i could run a half marathon in an hour and a half or so and it would take them two hours...keep the standards in mind, as both time and distance are considered...
I know that I had success in increasing my run times by doing speed intervals on a track, hill sprints, and slow, deliberate form running drills to increase my running form and efficiency. Also, as lksteve said, I'd alternate speed days and longer, medium-paced (not slow, mind you; just a little slower than your 2 mile pace) runs where I'd focus on long strides and rhythm. Again, this worked well for me. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for you.
Roguish Lawyer
07-15-2005, 13:06
I know that I had success in increasing my run times by doing speed intervals on a track, hill sprints, and slow, deliberate form running drills to increase my running form and efficiency. Also, as lksteve said, I'd alternate speed days and longer, medium-paced (not slow, mind you; just a little slower than your 2 mile pace) runs where I'd focus on long strides and rhythm. Again, this worked well for me. You'll have to experiment to see what works best for you.
I think you meant to say "improving" or "decreasing" your run times. :)
lksteve and razor,
Thanks for the advice. Now back to pt'ing for me :lifter
I think you meant to say "improving" or "decreasing" your run times. :)
Yep, meant to say 'decreasing'. I gotta stop having those six-pack lunches. :(
I dunno, Razor, the six-pack lunches sure help increase my run times!
Sir,
My problem is neither speed nor weakness, its more of an endurance problem. My 2 mile run time is about 13:30 but once I'm beyond around 3 and a half miles I just die, I have a feeling it's just a need to get more mileage in.I have the same problem with rucking, once I'm beyond 6 or 7 miles I just hit a wall.
That's why I would consider it my weak point. I was asking the question from an endurance perspective, ie would it help my endurance more to lift then run because of the energy expended lifting qould make the run harder, or does it make more sense to run then lift a little later.
I still have at least a year before I plan on shipping out so there's plenty of time to rectify the situation. Thanks for the advice on the spilt workouts, I'll try those until classes start and see how they help.
Jon
Let's see. A 13:30 run means you can run 6:45 minute miles for two miles. Not too bad overall, but most people have the potential to run much faster than that.
Your question is about endurance. If you can run 6:45 miles for two miles, you should be able to run 4-6 miles at an "airborne shuffle" which is the pace of many group formation runs. This pace can vary but is usuallly somewhere between 8-9 min miles. I've seen people still drunk from the night before survive these "strolls" on many occasions.
I'm guessing you are trying to maintain your 2 mile pace while running 3.5 miles when you say you die. If this is the case, your body is most likely relying heavily on anaerobic (without oxygen) metabolism to supply the working muscles with the fuel they need to contract, which is adenosine triphosphate (ATP).
ATP fuels all muscle contractions, whether it's blinking your eye or running 10 miles. Runners with better aerobic (with oxygen) power have to rely less on anaerobic metabolism, since they can supply more of their energy needs from the aerobic system.
Some signs your body is relying heavily on anaerobic metabolism are: Increased, heavy breathing, decreased coordination, decreased mental awareness, and eventually, an abrupt decrease in athletic performance.
Our body's energy production takes place in a complex biochemical process know as the krebs cycle/citric acid cycle/tricarboxylic acid cycle (TCA).
The body thrives on oxygen. At rest, easy walking, etc., we are almost purely "aerobic." When exercise pace/intensity increases, working muscles will require more freshly oxygenated blood than the left ventricle of the heart can pump. The body compensates for this deficiency through anaerobic metabolism, which means the muscles will get the ATP they need to vigorously contract, but there will be a price to pay.
If there is insufficient oxygen in the working muscle cells (e.g. fast running pace), lactic acid will be formed from a process called "anaerobic glycolysis." When lactic acid degrades and spills into the bloodstream it's called "lactate." Lactate and lactic acid are acidic which lowers the Ph of your blood.
The aerobic system is like making enough money to cover all your expenses. You have no debt. However, if you "spend" more than you make, in this case, too high a running pace, you must "borrow" to cover the debt. You will borrow ATP from the anaerobic system and the penalty for this loan is increased acidosis which ensures your effort will be relatively short lived.
The Ph of human blood at rest is slightly alkaline, having a Ph around 7.35-7.40 or so. Note that the Ph scale goes from 0-14, with 7 being neutral (distilled water). Higher numbers indicate "alkalinity" which is a property associated with "bases." Lower numbers indicate "acidity" which is associated with acids.
Muscle cells function under a very narrow Ph range. When this range is exceeded (too much acid/low Ph), they stop contracting as forcefully, and eventually slow down dramatically. Reduced blood Ph is always associated with substantial performance decreases.
The liver is tasked with metabolizing lactate. Excessive blood lactate levels from intense activity can cause some people to feel sick and actually vomit. Normally, this most often occurs in people not accustomed to intense physical activity, another reason to always stay in shape.
Increasing aerobic power will allow you to run faster while keeping your blood "cleaner" (less lactate). This will allow for a faster, longer run. A less fit individual might be able to hold the same fast pace, but would be forced to quit before the run could be completed due to too much acidosis.
Increasing aerobic power usually means doing some type of interval work. There are many programs and ideas out there on how to do it. Something like 3-6 repetitions of 1 mile efforts at a fast pace (5-6 minute miles) with slow walking for 5-20 minutes or so in between reps to recover would work real well if you could do it. Recovery times vary considerably. Take as much time as you need to ensure the next, quality effort. Focus on holding a consistent speed over the entire distance. At most, you'll only have to suffer for 5 or 6 minutes on each rep, right??? Not too bad if you think about it...
Individuals need to get a feel for how much exercise "dosing" they can handle. Don't be a hero and get yourself hurt unecessarily by doing too much too soon. Athletic success requires the "long term" approach. Think of fitness as something that improves on a yearly basis, as long as you do the work.
Consistency and dedication are required for athletic success.
Speedwork should be done once or twice a week. Don't overdo the speedwork. The other days, you should run longer/slower, or short and easy. Take at least 1 or 2 days off completely each week. Don't be a slave to your program either. If you need an extra day or two or three to recover, make sure you take them, since full recovery will make your intense sessions most productive.
Experimentation with any training program is always required.
For the rucks, you say you get tired after 6-7 miles. Assuming you could maintain a pace around 4 miles per hour, 6-7 miles would put you at or beyond 1.5 hours, which is about how long most people can exercise with some intensity before they exhaust their stores of muscle glycogen (stored carbohydrate). After muscle glycogen stores are depleted, performance drops substantially as well.
Make sure you are eating enough carbohydrates in general and maybe eat something with carbs/sugar in it while you are rucking. Low-carb diets are the worst thing an athlete or soldier can do if they want to be alert and have energy for intense, prolonged work.
The Reaper
07-26-2005, 10:01
Get with someone who can run it at the pace you want, and shadow them.
Alternately, go to a measured track and keep track of your lap times. Force yourself to run the distance at the pace you want. You will soon discover if you are running too fast too soon or not.
TR
thanks for the advice/info detcord...
TR I would run with someone except all of my friends around here are the epitome of the lazy American college students made even worse because I go to an Engineering school. I don't think most of them would know how to run further then the 100 yards it takes to get to the packie. :rolleyes:
I go to a college populated by big-time partiers, who may or may not be lazier than engineering students. Just about every school I know of, however, has a running club that breaks people up based on pace/skill/fitness goals. I always find runs are better if I have someone to talk to, even when I can barely muster the breath to speak :o Something to check into, perhaps.
The Reaper
07-26-2005, 15:16
thanks for the advice/info detcord...
TR I would run with someone except all of my friends around here are the epitome of the lazy American college students made even worse because I go to an Engineering school. I don't think most of them would know how to run further then the 100 yards it takes to get to the packie. :rolleyes:
Do you not have a track team or cross country team?
TR
We do I just don't know any of the kids on the team and I don't have time to join the team with work.
I might start PT'ing with the Army ROTC cadets once school starts, I'll have to see when they PT to see if I can do it with them, if not I'll just get by on my own. :lifter
Prester John
07-26-2005, 22:29
I gave up on anyone I know being willing to maintain an active training schedule. It's more satisfying to do it on your own anyway. This career is about being self-motivated. Take the right steps now.
Follow Warrior-Mentor's plan in the "Getting Selected for Special Forces" book. It's excellent and geared for someone who isn't currently in the best shape. I am on my second go round of his 30 day plan and am incorporating additional and extended activities. It made my preperation fun and gave me a good background to base my future fitness plans.
I also think reading a book on diet for fitness is helpful. I enjoyed Chris Charmichael's "Food for Fitness" (He is Lance Armstrong's coach).
I can't recommend adequate stretching enough.
We do I just don't know any of the kids on the team and I don't have time to join the team with work.
I might start PT'ing with the Army ROTC cadets once school starts, I'll have to see when they PT to see if I can do it with them, if not I'll just get by on my own. :lifter
Jon, find someone with a bike that has a speedometer. The type of bike doesn't matter, as long as it has an accurate, calibrated speedometer. Accurate speedometers can be purchased for $20-30.
Usually, someone who doesn't really care about exercise won't mind pacing you on a bike, since riding a bike at 10-12 mph or so is considered "easy" by most people.
Have your girlfriend, little brother, etc. pace you on a bike. This is sort of like "motorpacing" used by professional cyclists, where they ride behind a moped/small motorcyle at 35-40 mph. When you do this, find a place away from cars and traffic.
To figure out your speed/running pace, divide 60 by the speed in mph you want or the minutes-per-mile. Dividing 60 by either will give the other value.
For example, 60/6 minute miles = 10 mph. 60/10 mph = 6 minute miles. 5 minute miles are 12 mph (60/5=12).
Get warmed up for 10-20 minutes before you go hard with some light, easy running. Don't stretch before you run (stretching after is ok). Then, have your friend hold a given pace on the bike and see how long you can hold it.
You won't need to do this forever, since you will develop a feel for the correct high pace after a while. It's extremely unlikely the ROTC crowd will want to push themselves that hard, so I wouldn't count on them for much, PT wise...
airbornefox
07-27-2005, 05:32
another good book I've been reading lately is "The Triathletes Training Bible." It has great information not only for triathletes but it provides a very detailed and easy to understand explanation on the principles of fitness. The fundamentals can be applied to any type of training plan. I also like the section on knowing how and when to "peak." Lots of good info in this book. I highly recommend it.
I've been reading the crossfit message board and have found some people saying that they are using crossfit work out of the day and rucking 2 times a week. A couple of guys say that they got through SFAS doing these work outs and I was wondering what the QP's thoughts were on doing this in preperation for SFAS.
mlitsey
Just my .02. Im an NQP so... I post humbly.
I did several of the Stew Smith workouts before I discovered other resources such as "Get Selected" and this platform. I noticed that I may have been over training as it looks as though I wont attend selection until Jan. I was told(by other QP and "selectees") that I want to peak in week one, and not before. I then started integrating Stew Smith with Crossfit(I discovered at drill!!!, we NQPs did a good bit of crossfit! PUKE!!!) along with some long runs and the standard rucks to keep my feet tough. I actually only ruck 2 maybe 3 times per week now (QP advice). I also made this move after finally being able to measure myself up against others by doing timed rucks at drill (6 miles in 58 minutes). I am prior service AF and really didnt know what a good pace was... Now I know... and can maintain a 13 min ruck pace with this current regime/profile. I think a mix of all of them is a good approach when your in my situation. I plan on doing the "Get Selected" plan just prior to shipping out. Anyway, my .02 man... I stand down.
peepee
Warrior-Mentor
11-08-2007, 22:19
Handy tool for training before & after SFAS...won't do you much good while you're there:
http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/whattowear/0,,s6-240-325-330-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
WM,
Not sure how useful that really is. I looked all over but unless I missed something, it doesn't say a thing about what colors or combinations of colors to wear to make you LOOK cool.
Warrior-Mentor
11-10-2007, 16:04
Black...always wear black.
People think SF wear black to be "cool."
Actually, it's just because of it's slimming properties. :D
Black also makes some of us look taller!!!
:D
warrottjr
02-13-2008, 11:36
http://www.bragg.army.mil/specialforces/prepare.htm
"Preparing for SFAS
"The purpose of this information is to assist prospective SFAS candidates in attaining and maintaining a high state of physical fitness prior to attendance at the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School (USAJFKSWCS) SFAS Program and subsequently the SFQC."
The Reaper
02-13-2008, 11:45
http://www.bragg.army.mil/specialforces/prepare.htm
"The purpose of this information is to assist prospective SFAS candidates in attaining and maintaining a high state of physical fitness prior to attendance at the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School (USAJFKSWCS) SFAS Program and subsequently the SFQC."
This program has been recommended, pointed out, and linked repeatedly, but most people would rather spend hours looking for a shortcut of dubious value rather than putting the time into following instructions and training.
I personally think that many look at it and choose to ignore it bacause it looks too hard. Here is a little tip: if you think the prep program is too hard, or you don't think you can follow it, you are not going to suddenly grow wings and fly around Camp Mackall. Give up and quit now, and save us the time, effort, and expense of shipping your lazy ass to Bragg.
If you can follow the program, your odds of success are much higher.
And one last thing. 100 pounds in your ruck is not twice as good as 50 lbs. If that is your idea for better training, SF is not for you. Follow the recommended training weights, and the program.
Good luck, do the best that you can.
TR
cornelyj
02-19-2008, 11:16
Tell me about it! Seriously, though, for some of these young bucks the goal of conditioning is "simply" to get to a high enough fitness level to be successful at SFAS. For me, it is to get to that level with the knowledge that I can maintain it without constant overuse injuries. This means gradual improvements in joint strength and extra focus on flexibility and strength throughout the entire range of motion. If I can't pull all that together, I'll need to find another way to serve my country. In the meantime, I'm working on my gills. :D
Let me just start with I'm a Non-military trainer and I work at a university fitness center. I know doesn't mean shit but at least know that I am a nub that knows the muscle groups and form.
I have been researching this same aspect for quite sometime. What is very interesting about Military training is that there are many aspects to it. Endurance and endurance strength in many areas. When people (college kids) come to me with goals it is either I wish to bench press 100000 lbs or I want to run the next "XXXXXX" half-marathon as fast as a Kenyan. The military takes these aspects and puts almost as much importance in both of them as blending them and putting them together. I feel this is the reason this question is beaten to death on some many forums.
For push-ups check armyranger.com's forum...
http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=19586
http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8368
This routine assumes that you are able to do 30 complete push-ups with out resting. By partials I mean restricting the range of motion to just under 1/2 of a complete rep. Always touch the floor with your chest (when possible) and come up almost half-way then back down. A sample routine would look like this:
* Week 1 & 2: Every other day
POSITION #1: Triangle push-ups (you should touch your thumbs to your xiphoid process (lightly!) when trying to touch your chest to the ground)
+ 5 partials
+ 5 complete
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
+ rest 90 seconds
POSITION #2: Move hands to shoulder length apart (the tips of your fingers should be aligned with the tops of your sholders)
+ 5 partials
+ 5 complete
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
+ rest 90 seconds
POSITION #3: Move your hands out until, during mid rep, your upper arms will be perpendicular to your forearms. The hands should remain in the same position relative to the shoulders (ie move them "out" in a straight line)
+ 5 partials
+ 5 complete
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
* Week 3: 2 days on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
+ Until failure
* Week 4 & 5: 1 on, 2 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on, 2 off; 1 on, 2 off; 1 on, 1 off
POSITION #1
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
+ 12 partials
+ 12 complete
+ rest 120 seconds
POSITION #2
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
+ 12 partials
+ 12 complete
+ rest 120 seconds
POSITION #3
+ 7 partials
+ 7 complete
+ 12 partials
+ 12 complete
* Week 6: 2 on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
+ Until failure
+ rest 240 seconds
POSITION #2
+ Until failure
* Week 7 & 8: 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 1 on; 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 2 on; 1 off, 1 on; 1 off
POSITION #1
+ 15 partials
+ 15 complete
+ rest 90 seconds
+ 40 complete
+ rest 240 seconds
POSITION #2
+ 15 partials
+ 15 complete
+ rest 90 seconds
+ 40 complete
+ rest 240 seconds
POSITION #3
+ 15 partials
+ 15 complete
+ rest 90 seconds
+ 40 complete
+ rest 240 seconds
* Week 9: 2 on, 1 off; 2 on, 1 off; 1 on
POSITION #1
+ Until failure
+ rest 240 seconds
POSITION #2
+ Until failure
+ rest 240 seconds
POSITION #3
+ Until failure
+ rest 240 seconds
* Week 10: 1 off, 1 on; 2 off, 1 on; 1 off, 1 on
POSITION #2
+ 100 complete
* Maintenance: Twice a week
POSITION #2
+ 100 complete
Written by Robert C. Shouse
I'm doing a similar workout right now from this. shown much improvement already.
Well the reason I actually posted was because of Area Commander Jatx has just listed everything that kettle bells can help you with."joint strength and extra focus on flexibility and strength throughout the entire range of motion" Many of the kettlebell swings and clinches are designed just for this.
"Kettlebell workouts are intended to increase strength, endurance, agility and balance, challenging both the muscular and cardiovascular system with dynamic, total-body movements."
Not in any way saying that I know my shit about the bells but I have incorporated them into my work out and noticed a large difference in stabilization muscles and core strength. (helping rucking on a trail very much.)
One more thing on core muscles and strength. Do not be afraid of the yoga ball!:) It is your friend. Sit-up and push-up work outs can be made much harder with this simple piece of equipment.
Please do not take offense that I posted. I just wanted to share some information with people I feel would use it. As with everything everywhere take with a grain..... Please don't sue me if you drop a kettle bell on your skull.
Have a nice day and happy PT.
~ Joe.
Already pushing them out....
Old Coach
02-24-2008, 21:19
How many days before you shipped, did you guys stop or tone down training?
I'm running 5 miles in the am and push up/abs or pull up/abs alternating three days a week sadwiched by 2.5 mile runs.
Overall training day = 10 miles, 150 sit ups, 150 push ups or 150 pull ups (varying sets on push ups and assistance on pull ups).
No place for ropes or land nav.
Think I might be overdoing it.
Advice?
The Reaper
02-24-2008, 22:07
How many days before you shipped, did you guys stop or tone down training?
I'm running 5 miles in the am and push up/abs or pull up/abs alternating three days a week sadwiched by 2.5 mile runs.
Overall training day = 10 miles, 150 sit ups, 150 push ups or 150 pull ups (varying sets on push ups and assistance on pull ups).
No place for ropes or land nav.
Think I might be overdoing it.
Advice?
Believe it or not, you are not the first one to ask about his prep program here.
Search, read, and follow the program laid out in the SWCS training circular referenced elsewhere on this site.
Best of luck.
TR
Distorted
03-11-2008, 18:55
I'm in the last few weeks of this program, and thought I'd share it. I pulled it off another site where it was posted by that kettlebell-using PJ. As per TR's advice, I used a pair of 'issue' boots ordered off the internet, and added a pair of SOLE footbeds, though I confess that I plan to spoil myself by ordering a pair of Danners the day I perform the last walk.
Here is a longer term train up for you. The one above, as Janus stated may be a too much as basic as it is.
Naval Special Warfare Command studied the problem in some depth and found the following to be the smartest and safest method of training for ruck marching:
Begin with 20% of your bodyweight. Stay with that weight for 2-3 weeks. Accomplish 2-3 ruck marches a week on days you are not running. The set distance is 5 miles. Every three weeks increase your weight but maintain your distance of five miles. Just like running you have to build one quality at a time. You can't run fast AND far at the same time. You get your distance down first, then you work on speed. In rucking, you get your weight bearing capacity down first for a set distance, then increase the distance, then the speed if necessary. If you push yourself properly (fast enough so talking is possible but a bit labored) you should have the spped you need at the end.
Progression is as follows:
week 1-3: 20% bodyweight x5 miles
Week 4-6: 25% x5 miles
Week 7-9: 30% x5 miles
Week 10-12: 40% x5 miles (do not exceed 40% of BW, for me at 175lbs this is 70lbs)
Week 13-14: 40% x6 miles
Week 15-16: 40% x7 miles
Week 17-18: 40% x8 miles
Week 19-20: 40% x10 miles
Week 21-22: 40% x12 miles
Week 23-24: 40% x15 miles
Use a large ALICE pack, smartwool expedition socks, and Danner Acadia boots or the old basic training boots and take care of your feet!
Notice that this is 6 months of training but it should be a solid injury free six months with plenty of time for your nervous system, bones, ligaments, tendons, and muscles to adapt properly.
Do KB work on days you do not ruck and calisthenics on the days you do ruck. Swim 1-2 times a week and pay close attention to your sleep and recovery.
Good Luck!
I don't have time to do the kbmodsasprog (http://www.specialtactics.com/kbmodsasprog.pdf) posted here (and mocked) several months ago, which seemed like the next logical step. I also rotated off this program a few times and did 'Hit the Deck' (http://forum.alphainteractions.com/archive/index.php?t-3551.html) when I was being a wimp about going outside.
I'm thinking about doing 18mi@50lbs once a week as opposed to 15mi@80 three times a week while doing another program (probably 'Enter the Kettlebell'), but would appreciate some feedback with respect to maintaining my rucking.
Edit: this might also be the time to plug the website where I got my ruck and boots: www.armygear.net It was significantly cheaper than my local army surplus, which wanted > $100 for the ruck, and the same price on the boots for sub-par eastern european crap. Your mileage may vary, as the bag I got was obviously used. I also do not yet have a copy of 'Get Selected'.
This program has been recommended, pointed out, and linked repeatedly, but most people would rather spend hours looking for a shortcut of dubious value rather than putting the time into following instructions and training.
I personally think that many look at it and choose to ignore it bacause it looks too hard. Here is a little tip: if you think the prep program is too hard, or you don't think you can follow it, you are not going to suddenly grow wings and fly around Camp Mackall. Give up and quit now, and save us the time, effort, and expense of shipping your lazy ass to Bragg.
TR
:D:D:D
This is great...I was hoping to find a great workout schedule to help me get in peak physical shape before SFAS. I still have a long way to go...Starting Dec 30, I'll have about 20 weeks to get in shape. I was wondering how much free time I would get in Advanced Infantry Training and Airborne School. Is it like a normal work day, free time on base after the training day? Or is it more strict? I'm hoping I can get the time to work on my physical fitness with a buddy or alone rather than only on standard PT days.
Thanks for the great post...It will help me indeed.
[QUOTE=Kyobanim;81108]I found this while cleaning out my hard drive and thought someone might benefit from it. I can't remember where I found it or if it has been posted here before.
Attaining physical fitness is not an overnight process; the body must go through three stages:
SFWPNSSGT/SPC
06-17-2009, 07:17
Deployed to Iraq.... at Joint Base Balad. It's a curse. Prepping for Selection (012-09) I was worried about not getting time to practice rope climbing technique. Some unit was nice enough to build a mock obstacle course. They obviously did not want any one to actually use it, because they put a fence around it.
On my way back in from a ruck march the other night, I got tired of looking at the rope and not climbing it. I dropped my gear and all night-time required reflective equipment, and made my way over the fence. It was a great time of going over technique. It's only about 15 ft. of rope, but enough.
If you find yourself unlucky enough to be stationed on JBB and stay sane enough to train, the rope is located 75 m off of Penn. Ave, East side of the road, kind of across from Killeen Field.
SimpleDreamer
06-17-2009, 16:10
Compilation of information edited off.
The Reaper
06-17-2009, 19:51
This is a collection of information gathered from this thread and this website as a whole. I hope this will be able to aid some of you starting your workouts as it has helped me.
Imbued are daily motivational quotes from some famous and some not so famous intellectuals. I also did weekly closings for reflection, and further motivation.
Thanks!
-SimpleDreamer
SD:
Who are you and what have you accomplished to be dispensing advice to anyone here? You are 19 and have zero military experience.
I believe that you should make it through SFAS before you start telling others how to prepare themselves.
TR