FINALLY! But let's not count chickens just yet . . . [Archive]

Roguish Lawyer

06-08-2005, 13:58

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=127314&hubName=nhl

Report: NHL, NHLPA agree on cap formula
TSN.ca Staff with CP, Globe and Mail files
6/8/2005 2:06:13 PM

The Globe and Mail reports that the NHL and NHL Players' Association have agreed on a formula for a salary-cap system based on team-by-team revenue.

The salary-cap issue was seen as the biggest hurdle in talks for a new collective bargaining agreement.

According to the Globe's league and player sources, a salary floor and cap will based on a percentage of each NHL team's revenue. The paper adds that in the first year - based on revenue projections by both sides - the salary cap will range from $34 million to $36 million US, with the floor from $22 million to $24 million US.

The Globe also reports that the formula calls for a dollar-for-dollar luxury tax to kick in at the halfway mark between the floor and the cap. If the floor of the lowest team is $22 million US and the cap on the highest team is $36 million US, then the 'tax level' will be $29 million US.

The formula would allow wealthier teams to spend a bit more money, but would also bridge the large gaps in spending between higher payroll teams and lower payroll teams.

Small group labour talks between both sides ended late Tuesday night and resume today in New York with a larger group meeting.

Both sides have carried over the momentum from last week when 34 hours of talks were described as 'progressive' from both sides.

There are several issues to iron out, but sources in both camps believe there's a chance a deal could be done before July. Still, both sides also concede there are potential pitfalls that could prevent an agreement from being reached.

Today's session is the 21st meeting between the two sides since the season was cancelled Feb. 16.

NHL vice-president and chief legal officer Bill Daly and NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin declined to confirm or deny anything to The Globe and Mail.

Files from CP and The Globe and Mail were used for this report.

Goggles Pizano

06-08-2005, 15:49

However should they get a deal done there has been, in one fan's opinion, a great deal of damage done to the sport. No tv deal, ticket prices through the roof, and a watered down product is not enough to reel in a disenchanted fan base. :munchin

rubberneck

06-08-2005, 16:26

Roguish Lawyer

06-08-2005, 16:28

At this point who cares? I was born an raised as big Ranger fan but even I had to walk away from the game in recent months. I get college hockey on my extended sports plan so I didn't miss the NHL much any way.

The sad thing is the players will end up getting what the owners offered before the season was cancelled. It is too bad the season had to be sacrificed to satisfy the egos that run the players union. In the end the players gain nothing and they lose a year on an already limited career.

I agree with the second point, but not the first. I watched lots of college, junior and minor-league hockey too, but it was not a perfect substitute.

The big question is how Colorado can win any games when they can't outspend everyone else. :D

Goggles Pizano

06-08-2005, 16:43

The big question is how Colorado can win any games when they can't outspend everyone else. :D

Just opened that can of worms didn't you, without hesitation! :eek:

I'm cheering for the Phantoms to ease the pain.

Roguish Lawyer

06-08-2005, 16:52

I'm cheering for the Phantoms to ease the pain.

Did they stay in the Spectrum or play in the big building this past year?

cszakolczai

06-08-2005, 18:13

YES FINALLY !
but i have to admit, watching minor league hockey has been really fun.
Chris
TITANS all the way! I almost ended up on there junior team but didn't really like how things were run.

Goggles Pizano

06-08-2005, 22:57

Did they stay in the Spectrum or play in the big building this past year?

Spectrum for the season and wacovia for the playoffs. They are up 3-0 by the way.

jon448

06-09-2005, 06:41

Well now that there's a cap Sinden and Jacob's will finally have an excuse to keep spending down. However I hope that this will reduce ticket prices. Especially for the B's I mean we were I think 3rd in ticket prices and in the middle in spending thats just bull.
But to really fix the NHL I think they seriously do need to contract a few teams. Because that would help increase scoring by having more talented players working together. I mean look at the Oiler's of the early mid 80s they had Gretzky, Kurri, Messier and a whole host of others, that would/could never happen in today's NHL. They also instead of increasing net size to just decrease the size of goalies equipment. It's just getting out of hand with regards to pads especially upperbody, don't get me wrong I'm all for protection but does protection really entail 4 foot wide shoulder pads. Thats just my opinion but I'm just a dumb kid.

cszakolczai

06-09-2005, 07:06

Sounds like some good ideas to me. Did you see the size and shape of the net they wanted to change it to? If it aint broke don't fix it. And to the size of the goalie equipment, it is getting a little rediculous. Yet there are a lot more restrictions now adays, especially at my age group. The sticks and the size of the curve are being regulated more and the equipment one is alowed to use is being really strictly regulated. In my oppinion the biggest mistake of the NHL, is not appealing to all kids. Its a sport that everyone could play but they limit it to just certain kids, I know its the cost also, for all the equipment. But if they figure out a way to limit the cost of equipment and make it more appealing to kids other than just rich white kids, than it might take off more and they might fill up the seats at the arena.
Chris

CoLawman

06-09-2005, 07:13

I agree with the second point, but not the first. I watched lots of college, junior and minor-league hockey too, but it was not a perfect substitute.

The big question is how Colorado can win any games when they can't outspend everyone else. :D

Ah, Counselor you fail to recognize the intangible..................MR. PIERRE LACROIX. I seem to recall two players who were willing to play for substantially less money just to play at the PEPSI CENTER with the likes of Sakic and Forsberg.

GO AVS!

jon448

06-09-2005, 07:21

Chris I was just checkin out your profile and I noticed you said you were gonna play in college where were you thinkin of playin? Cuz I actually played at my first 3 schools, well I played at my first one and sat on the bench at my other 2 but whats the difference right?
I don't really understand what you're saying about kids not wanting to play in the NHL? Where else would you want to play? Plus cost is a prohibition but maybe they could do something like Pop Warner where the teams have the equipment and you just use it for the season or something
While we're on the subject I'd like to congratulate Cam Neely on his recent HOF election. He is one of the real nice guys of the hockey world. I used to go to a camp run by him every year in the Boston area and even when he was injured he was there every day working with all of the kids. I went for about 3 or 4 straight years, and he took the time to learn alot of the repeat kids' names and actually remember them too. So congrats Cam

rubberneck

06-09-2005, 08:26

I agree with the second point, but not the first. I watched lots of college, junior and minor-league hockey too, but it was not a perfect substitute.

I am a graduate of the University of Wisconsin and the NHL lockout happened to coincide with the rebirth of the Badger hockey program on a national level. For me college hockey was the perfect substitute. YMMV.

Besides who the heck wants to pay through the nose for Rangers tickets just to watch a grossly disfunctional oarganization ruin the sport. THe only way the NHL will survive is if the Dolan's are given a one way ticket out of the sport.

Roguish Lawyer

06-09-2005, 08:36

I seem to recall two players who were willing to play for substantially less money just to play at the PEPSI CENTER with the likes of Sakic and Forsberg.

GO AVS!

So how did that work out for you? :munchin

CoLawman

06-09-2005, 09:16

So how did that work out for you? :munchin

Ahem..........well San Jose finished us off in the semi conference series. But Kariya did score a point (an assist) in that final game. Selanne.......well he uh....well he played too. :D

But Dammmmmm they were good in the regular season!

Colorado is a very charitable organization. We believe in sharing some of the space on the Stanley Cup with the less fortunate organizations.

I do agree with the Badger who posted above regarding College Hockey. Was there a Colorado team in their somewhere? Just a little dig. Any fan of hockey is alright in my book!

jon448

06-09-2005, 09:34

Besides who the heck wants to pay through the nose for Rangers tickets just to watch a grossly disfunctional oarganization ruin the sport. THe only way the NHL will survive is if the Dolan's are given a one way ticket out of the sport.
Don't forget the Jeremy Jacob's of the world too. He'll only spend just enough to make the team good but not quite enough to get us far in the playoffs. I mean look how many players the bruins currently have signed. I think it's 3.

I was a little disappointed in the Big East/Cornell showing in the college world this season. I think it was all 4 teams in the frozen four out of the Midwest league. Oh well, the Baby B's and Lock Monsters had fairly solid seasons in the AHL though so that kept me happy.

Roguish Lawyer

06-09-2005, 10:05

Where the hell is Sdiver?

Goggles Pizano

06-09-2005, 10:46

Ahem..........well San Jose finished us off in the semi conference series. But Kariya did score a point (an assist) in that final game. Selanne.......well he uh....well he played too. :D

But Dammmmmm they were good in the regular season!

Colorado is a very charitable organization. We believe in sharing some of the space on the Stanley Cup with the less fortunate organizations.

You do realize that if we had not been so stupid in Philly to exercise the "Lindros experiment" you would still be in Quebec wondering why you did not take the deal for seven players/draft picks and 15 mil, and as we have been since 75, without a cup. :munchin

Roguish Lawyer

06-09-2005, 10:55

You do realize that if we had not been so stupid in Philly to exercise the "Lindros experiment" you would still be in Quebec wondering why you did not take the deal for seven players/draft picks and 15 mil, and as we have been since 75, without a cup. :munchin

Excellent point. Although Lindros did play well for a while. Getting to the Cup Finals isn't too shabby. Although Philly Fan is never satisfied. :D

Gypsy

06-09-2005, 18:17

Where the hell is Sdiver?

He's having some internet problems right now...hopes to be back soon.

Roguish Lawyer

06-09-2005, 18:19

He's having some internet problems right now...hopes to be back soon.

If you're in touch with him, let him know that Forsberg and Sakic have both decided to retire. He'll want to know. :cool:

Gypsy

06-09-2005, 18:21

If you're in touch with him, let him know that Forsberg and Sakic have both decided to retire. He'll want to know. :cool:

Yowsa....will do.

lksteve

06-09-2005, 19:30

If you're in touch with him, let him know that Forsberg and Sakic have both decided to retire. He'll want to know.
that's odd...there's no mention of that in the Rocky Mountain News or the Denver Post...hmmm...you been practicing Black PSYOP all by your lonesome???????

Roguish Lawyer

06-09-2005, 23:54

that's odd...there's no mention of that in the Rocky Mountain News or the Denver Post...hmmm...you been practicing Black PSYOP all by your lonesome???????

Shhh! :mad: ;)

magician

06-10-2005, 01:58

Got to say....that it was Lindros and the Legion of Doom line that hooked me on hockey in the first place, back a few years. I never missed a game, afterwards.

Well.....if the season is going to be greenlighted....I just might have to explore options for moving back to a secluded cabin fronting on national forest with a honkin' satellite dish, just so I can indulge my addiction for pugilistic hockey.

I do not think that I can suck NHL Center Ice from a satellite orbiting over Thailand, and that BLOWS.

:)

CoLawman

06-10-2005, 05:50

If you're in touch with him, let him know that Forsberg and Sakic have both decided to retire. He'll want to know. :cool:

Ha Ha Ha. Although you may not be too far from the truth. Peter the Great is a safe bet not to return from Sweden. Sakic, I believe, will be back.

lksteve

06-10-2005, 07:35

Ha Ha Ha. Although you may not be too far from the truth. Peter the Great is a safe bet not to return from Sweden. Sakic, I believe, will be back.of course, the fact that Forsberg has hinted at retirement for several years adds credibility to the rumor, hence making it effective black propaganda...

Sdiver

06-11-2005, 14:59

Where the hell is Sdiver?

Hhhhhhheeeeeerrrrrreeeee's Sdiver...

I'm baaacccckkkkkkk. :D

Sorry to have been away for awhile...I'll be checking in from time to time....still got 'puter problems. The only way I can check stuff now, is down at the Fire Station I just got on as a Volunteer. Mine at home went T.U.

Sooooooo.....what have we here....

ColLawMan....Welcome....Nice seeing ANOTHER follower of the BEST Frekin Team in NHL. Be advised....R.L. likes those gay players on that team in L.A., what are they called again ???....the Queens????....something like that.
Haven't found too many Red Wing fans here....guess they know to stay away.
Oh yeah....NDD....likes the Stars.....doesn't know S**t about the game, but they're from Texas and guess where he's from.... :rolleyes: ....I know.

Now.....I just hope that this new aggrement will help the lesser income teams out there, Carolina, Florida, L.A. .... mostly all the "southern" teams that don't have that big of a fan base.

Then the powerhouse teams (that buy their cups) like Detroit, New Jersey, Dallas, ect ect....(Not Colorado tho....they EARNED IT !!!!!) will be facing more compition durning the regular season, NOT just durning the playoffs.

Oh Yeah......Joe WILL be back this year. :D

Roguish Lawyer

06-11-2005, 20:13

I believe there are several big Flyers fans on the Board -- Magician, Goggles Pizano, etc. I assume that Greenhat likes either the Rangers or Islanders, and hates the other.

AmericanPride

06-11-2005, 20:44

Then life must really suck!!

Die hard Wings fan here, from the state of Michigan. I'm looking forward to some good hockey discussion here when the schedule permits me to play on this dumb machine.

By the way, let me know when you've won 10 titles

AP

:D

magician

06-11-2005, 23:38

calling me a "big Flyers fan" does not come close to encompassing my fanaticism.

I am a freaking maniac where the Flyers are concerned.

if you ever watch their games on TV, and you see those crazed fat guys from Philly brawling in the stands? I am in the thick of it. Everytime.

with a massive gourmet Italian sub miraculously surviving the mayhem untouched.

:)

Roguish Lawyer

06-12-2005, 01:57

with a massive gourmet Italian sub miraculously surviving the mayhem untouched.

You know that's not the correct term for it. Stop translating for them. ;)

Sdiver

06-12-2005, 12:58

By the way, let me know when you've won 10 titles

AP

:D

....and just HOW many of those 10 titles did your team BUY ???!!!! :lifter

Sdiver

06-12-2005, 12:59

magician

06-12-2005, 13:24

You know that's not the correct term for it. Stop translating for them. ;)

I sure wish that someone knew how to make salami, bologna, and pepperoni over here.

I think that an authentic Philly deli would make money hand over fist.

CoLawman

06-12-2005, 15:25

Glad to assist Sdiver. By the way do you recall any Michigan teams involved in College this past year. Wings fans were left to waiting for the Tigers to start playing ball. Or were they left waiting for the Lions to play. The only reason they are still in the NBA hunt is because of that home grown Colorado kid!

This lock out added a couple more years to Sakics and Blake's careers. Let's drop the puck.

Goggles Pizano

06-12-2005, 16:21

The Reaper

06-12-2005, 16:30

I sure wish that someone knew how to make salami, bologna, and pepperoni over here.

I am sure that they could, but you would not want to know what the ingredients were.

TR

casey

06-12-2005, 17:58

You know that's not the correct term for it. Stop translating for them. ;)

Its like the secret masonic handshake - we never say hoagie first, or in a loud tone. Hence, during the game when someone, with no outward markings of an opposing team yells "Hey Theadore if you're going, could you purchase me a sub"? They might as well have a shirt made of chem lights and a strobe on their wig, cause the Broad St dance is about to begin......

Roguish Lawyer

06-12-2005, 17:59

AmericanPride

06-12-2005, 18:35

Just because Ilitch is loaded.... everyone wants to hate the Wings :D The Tigers, umm yeah anyhow, we have a really nice new stadium though. I'm from far enough north to be raised a Packers fan so I don't have n e thing to do with the Lions. The Pistons.....whats basketball?? I prefer to follow mens sports. :D

Roguish Lawyer

06-12-2005, 19:11

Mathieu Schneider was on the ice before one of my recent games playing with an elite-level adult league team. He looked really rusty -- several turnovers and a blown assignment leading to a goal within the 5 minutes I was watching. I don't think he's been playing much at all.

The Wings have not re-signed him, IIRC.

magician

06-12-2005, 22:55

Its like the secret masonic handshake - we never say hoagie first, or in a loud tone. Hence, during the game when someone, with no outward markings of an opposing team yells "Hey Theadore if you're going, could you purchase me a sub"? They might as well have a shirt made of chem lights and a strobe on their wig, cause the Broad St dance is about to begin......

Rangers fans, or Maple Leafs fans, in particular, get welcomed to the City of Brotherly Love with an old-style smack-down.

And we laugh when the teams from California try to play "physical" with us.

When the Avs come to town, though....we take them seriously.

And when the Devils come from Jersey. No love lost, no mercy shown.

There have been some outright brawls between the Flyers and the Leafs. Tie Domi....could not walk down the street without a PSD detail from Zapata.

:)

brownapple

06-13-2005, 06:39

I believe there are several big Flyers fans on the Board -- Magician, Goggles Pizano, etc. I assume that Greenhat likes either the Rangers or Islanders, and hates the other.

Used to like the Islanders, when Ken Morrow played for them (went to college with Kenny). Since he retired, I could care less.

NCAA hockey is real hockey. Not a bunch of thugs looking for a reason to toss their gloves on the ice.

magician

06-13-2005, 06:44

I prefer to patronize fights where occasional hockey games break out.

:)

CoLawman

06-13-2005, 07:32

I could do without all the fights, especially since Chris Simons left the AVS to play hockey in Washington ;)

Those were the days!

Roguish Lawyer

06-13-2005, 10:46

Rangers fans, or Maple Leafs fans, in particular, get welcomed to the City of Brotherly Love with an old-style smack-down.

And we laugh when the teams from California try to play "physical" with us.

When the Avs come to town, though....we take them seriously.

And when the Devils come from Jersey. No love lost, no mercy shown.

There have been some outright brawls between the Flyers and the Leafs. Tie Domi....could not walk down the street without a PSD detail from Zapata.

:)

No longer free, but you will LOVE this site.

http://www.broadstreetbully.com/

magician

06-13-2005, 13:24

"leave the gun, take the canolis."

holy shit.

what a site.

I am all over this. Thanks for the link.

got to go....

:)

Roguish Lawyer

06-13-2005, 16:58

"leave the gun, take the canolis."

holy shit.

what a site.

I am all over this. Thanks for the link.

got to go....

:)

I have many others if you are interested. :cool:

This links directly to one video download which I believe you will like. No Flyers, but you will not mind.

http://www.baystreetbullies.com/movieclipz/2001-stock-peat.zip

magician

06-16-2005, 00:15

PJ Stock.

What a crowd pleaser.

Like Sandy McCarthy, he plays with a lot of heart. You got to love it.

Thanks for the clip.

Sacamuelas

06-27-2005, 14:18

"Everybody out there who calls us spoiled because we play 'a game,' they can all kiss my A$$. They can all kiss my A$$ because we have tried so hard to get this game back on the ice."

And, in Roenick's opinion, any fan who doesn't believe that the players sacrificed to bring hockey back in 2005-06 isn't welcome.

"I will say personally, personally, to everybody who calls us spoiled, you guys are just jealous, and screw you guys because we have tried so hard to get this game back on the ice to make it better for the fans," he said. "And if you don't realize that, don't come. We don't want you in the rink, we don't want you to watch hockey. Period."

:rolleyes: Well... you dumbasses that pay this guy's salary got a problem with this? ;) LOL If so, I now know where the complaint department is located....
:munchin

Roguish Lawyer

06-27-2005, 14:24

gk404

06-27-2005, 15:08

I like Roenick as well, he's a hell of a player with boatloads of grit but he needs to give his head a shake. How does going on a rant to the press about the fans help? I can understand his frustration but I can't understand his need to share it with the world... :boohoo

Goggles Pizano

06-27-2005, 18:19

Saca that is Roenick being Roenick. If I recall he was one of seven or eight players who actually tried to get the union to cooperate early in this silliness. I'm not defending him just offering a fan's opinion. He earned his stripes with Philly fans with his style of play not his off ice act.

Roguish Lawyer

07-01-2005, 10:17

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=129296

NHL looks to be springing back to life

Canadian Press

6/30/2005 10:39:09 PM

A sign that the National Hockey League is about to spring back to life is all the signings of coaches and general managers in the past two weeks.

And a mad rush of player moves is expected when the league and the NHL Players' Association finally end the lockout that wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.

Some believe a new collective bargaining agreement will be ready as early as next week.

"You can feel it," agent Pat Brisson said Thursday. "Teams are signing their coaches and general managers. It's very different from last summer.

The Anaheim Mighty Ducks offered a one-year deal to head coach Mike Babcock on Thursday and he will take a week to think about it.

On Wednesday, the Ottawa Senators gave GM John Muckler a three-year contract extension, which followed extensions given to coaches Pat Quinn of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Dave Tippett of the Dallas Stars.

Earlier, the Nashville Predators extended deals to coach Barry Trotz and his assistants, while the Chicago Blackhawks named Dale Tallon as GM. He promptly announced that coach Brian Sutter would not return.

All that movement could be small potatoes compared to the flurry expected when a new CBA in place, even if no one is sure exactly what the deal will include.

A salary cap somewhere in the $35 million to $40 million range is expected along with the 24 per cent salary rollback the players offered in December. The age of unrestricted free agency may come down from the current 31.

Hundreds of players contracts will have expired and GMs will have to fit new contracts into payroll limits.

"It will be the busiest time ever for us (agents), players and GMs," predicted Brisson. "It seems it will be a completely new system and we'll have to learn it quick.

"There will be more players on the market, lots of buyouts and with teams operating under a cap, they'll need room to sign players and they may have to let some go. It will be pretty wild."

Bob Gainey of the Montreal Canadiens said GMs are used to busy summers of signing free agents and going to arbitration with players and doesn't expect it to be that much different this year.

"It's always pretty busy," he said. "We really don't know what we're in for and when, but the bottom line is that we're all in the same position."

Gainey, who has only seven or eight players under contract for 2005-06, refuses to speculate on what may or may not be in the new CBA and says he'll deal with whatever new rules are agreed upon.

Brisson is bracing for major change.

He said the large payroll teams like Toronto, Detroit, the New York Rangers or Detroit may no longer be able to deal draft picks or prospects in exchange for expensive veterans.

"The draft will be extremely important and it will be important to sign your core players and do a better job off-ice to keep them happy," he said, adding that money may no longer be the deciding issue in where many players choose to ply their trade.

An area of concern to Brisson is the draft. His star client is Sidney Crosby of the Rimouski Oceanic, who is expected to be taken first overall.

But it is unclear yet how much entry-level salaries will be lowered and if restrictions will be placed on rookie bonuses. In the past, top picks have earned three or four times the rookie salary cap through bonuses.

"There has to be a way to make individual bonuses if an entry-level player makes a difference to his team," said Brisson. "If not, I wouldn't be surprised if entry-level players from Russia or other countries stay overseas because they can make more money."

magician

07-01-2005, 10:42

Roguish Lawyer

07-01-2005, 10:46

man, I wish that I had my old Flyers games on video.

I am feeling the itch.

definitely going to spring for a satellite dish. I hope that I can get NHL Center Ice out here.

In fact, I am PRAYING.

:)

Let us know if that doesn't work out. I am sure several of us could tape games and ship you the tapes if you want . . .

magician

07-01-2005, 11:05

Roguish Lawyer

07-01-2005, 11:44

hell...do you have a Tivo?

I would probably BUY you one and then have you transfer the games onto another hard drive and then send that.

when I was in the 'box I bought my former brother-in-law a recorder/burner all-in-one unit....the friggin' games that it burned were playable only on that device. I have a bunch of games on DVD from the last season that I cannot watch.

:)

Brother, I have TWO TiVos. I don't know how to transfer from TiVo to another hard drive, but I am sure I could figure it out eventually.

Sitting by for abuse . . .

magician

07-01-2005, 13:01

sigh....

I keep getting sucked into new business ventures out here......this place would be close to paradise....if, and this is a huge if....if it were possible to leech NHL Center Ice off a satellite.

Frankly, it is the primary reason why I am strongly considering returning back to the US.....high in the mountains, far from civilization. With a hot Thai chick to keep me company, of course.

I can see myself sitting on the porch, pulling beers out of a snow drift....then going inside for a good dinner and a Flyers game every other day.

Yup....that would about cover it.

:)

Roguish Lawyer

07-04-2005, 10:58

July 11.

magician

07-04-2005, 11:08

July 11.

uh...¿como?

Goggles Pizano

07-04-2005, 11:55

uh...¿como?

NHL draft lottery. :lifter

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/hockey/12042604.htm

Roguish Lawyer

07-04-2005, 13:14

NHL draft lottery. :lifter

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/hockey/12042604.htm

No. That's when they will announce signing of new CBA.

Roguish Lawyer

07-07-2005, 10:27

The NHL and NHLPA have denied this report, but here you go. I still say July 11.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/hockey/nhl/la-sp-nhl7jul07,1,7693179.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

July 7, 2005

NHL on Its Way Back

League, players' association agree in principle on a new collective bargaining agreement that includes a hard salary cap.

By Helene Elliott, Times Staff Writer

The NHL and the players' association have agreed in principle on a new collective bargaining agreement that will feature a hard salary cap linked to 54% of league revenue, a 24% rollback of existing contracts and qualifying offers, and a provision that will limit the salary of any single player to 20% of the team cap figure in any year, sources familiar with the labor negotiations said Wednesday.

The agreement, which is expected to be announced next week, also includes an NBA-style escrow provision under which 15% of each player's paycheck will go into an escrow account until revenue is calculated after each season. If league-wide spending on salaries exceeds 54% of revenue, the difference between the salaries paid and the negotiated percentage will be paid to teams from the escrow account. If teams spend less than 54%, the escrow money will revert to players.

Negotiators are estimating revenues will be $1.8 billion next season, down from $2.1 billion in 2002-03. The salary cap will be $37 million and won't include medical and dental benefits and pension payments. The floor will be about $24 million.

The league also agreed to let players represent their homelands at the Turin Olympics next February and will take an 18-day break to accommodate players' travel and participation in the Games.

The All-Star game will be dropped next season, mollifying owners who opposed repeated interruptions.

A source also said each team will have an equal chance in the lottery for the No. 1 pick in this year's entry draft. Canadian forward Sidney Crosby, touted as the next Wayne Gretzky, will probably be the top prize.

Overall, the agreement is a resounding victory for NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, who locked players out Sept. 15 in an effort to bring about sweeping economic changes and achieve cost certainty for owners. The average NHL salary rose from $730,000 in 1994-95 to $1.83 million in 2003-04, but Bettman contended that revenue did not keep pace and that teams lost a collective $1 billion in the decade preceding the lockout.

The NHL, which became the first major professional sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute, will become the last of the major North American leagues to adopt salary controls.

The agreement will be presented to the 10-member NHL executive committee in New York on Monday, and the Board of Governors will rubber-stamp it late next week.

Players will debate and vote at a meeting that could be contentious; if they approve, a 10-day period will begin for teams to sign players they drafted in 2003 and other players on their reserve lists. The season probably would start in early to mid-October.

King President Tim Leiweke, a member of the NHL executive committee, declined to discuss specifics of the negotiations. "I do think the union and the league have made a lot of progress," he said. "They're not there, but hopefully, they'll be there in the very near future."

The largest unresolved issue, a source said, is the disposition of contracts for the 2004-05 season. The NHLPA wants obligations for the 2004-05 season to be respected, and the NHL opposes that but might yield, a source said.

The new deal has no luxury tax but addresses revenue sharing through a complex formula under which the top 10 revenue-earning teams will give a percentage of their revenue to small-market teams at the conclusion of each season.

Salary arbitration will be conducted "baseball style," with each side presenting a figure and the arbitrator obligated to pick one figure or the other. Provisions will allow teams to walk away from a specified number of awards. Also, the minimum age to qualify for unrestricted free agency will be 31 in the first year of the deal, 30 the following year and 28 for the remaining four years.

In another key change, players' performance bonuses will be restricted according to a standardized formula. Criteria such as points, ice time and plus/minus ratio will govern bonuses available to forwards. Another set of standards will apply to bonuses for defensemen, and a third set will determine bonuses for goaltenders.

As expected, earnings will be limited for entry-level players. They will be subject to salary limits for their first four seasons instead of three, as in the old agreement, and their maximum earnings will be $850,000.

*

Salary rollbacks

Some sample NHL players' salaries under terms of the pending collective bargaining agreement, with scheduled 2004-05 figure, salary minus a 24% rollback and minus 15% to escrow:

Player/Team Scheduled salary Minus rollback Minus escrow

Sergei Fedorov, Mighty Ducks $8 million $6.080 million $5.168 million
Jaromir Jagr, N.Y. Rangers $11 million $8.36 million*
Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit $10 million $7.60 million*
Dan Boyle, Tampa Bay $2.75 million $2.09 million $1,776,500
Sean Avery, Kings $600,000 $456,000 $387,600

*Subject to maximum salary of 20% of the team's cap per season. With the cap expected to be $37 million, Jagr's salary would be $7.4 million, minus 15% to escrow, or $6,290,000. The same provision applies to Lidstrom.

Goggles Pizano

07-07-2005, 13:17

Hmmm...Sidney Crosby in the black and orange.....Crosby, Gagne, Roenick line?

This is a suggestion in the clear to one Robert Clarke: DO NOT SELL THE FARM FOR THE ONE ROOSTER PLEASE!!!! Lindros, cough cough.

Hey I can dream can't I? :munchin

magician

07-07-2005, 20:56

Manstein

07-09-2005, 07:34

holy cow.

I have a hard time believing that the players are not getting whalloped in this deal.

24% + 15%?

that is nearly 40%!

We will see what the verdict of history is, five or ten years from now.

how is it that baseball players can snag such massive deals? I know nothing about baseball salary caps.

The deal seems fair to me, because it is designed to help small market teams like my home town (yes, I'm very biased on the issue). Helps level the playing field a bit. The Penguins payroll last season was around $25 million (with 5 million going to 1 player, Le' Magnifique) Meanwhile teams like the Detroit Redwings had a payroll of around $80 million.

As far as baseball is concerned, I don't believe they even have a salary cap. The Pittsburgh Pirates payroll for 2005 is $32 million, and we have endured 11 straight losing seasons because of it. The Yankee's (huge market, no cap) have a payroll of $204 million for the 2005 season. The Yankee's have been to 6 World Series in the past 9 years..... :mad:

Roguish Lawyer

07-09-2005, 18:52

how is it that baseball players can snag such massive deals? I know nothing about baseball salary caps.

No hard cap, and lots of baseball revenue, especially in certain markets.

Roguish Lawyer

07-11-2005, 10:54

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=130180&hubName=nhl

McKenzie: NHL and NHLPA still in talks

Bob McKenzie, TSN.ca Staff

7/11/2005 1:01:04 PM

When the NHL last week scheduled a board of governors' executive committee meeting for today at 1 pm et in New York City, the hope was that commissioner Gary Bettman would be able to announce to the special 11-man group that an agreement on a new collective bargaining agreement had been reached with the NHL Players' Association.

That doesn't look as though it's going to happen. Not quite yet, anyway.

Sources tell TSN that Bettman will likely refrain from pronouncing a deal done and instead use today's meeting to thoroughly update the executive committee on all facets of a 600-plus page document that is, technically, still not complete. There are also a myriad of other issues to be discussed with the executive committee, including the draft lottery, the entry draft itself and rule changes.

Sources suggest that simply proofreading the document could take another day or two. The league appears intent on not saying the deal is done, even internally, until it has a fully executed, legally binding document with the NHLPA (pending ratification).

And since that isn't expected to happen before 1 pm et today, and may well take another day or two, Bettman apparently will play it safe at today's meeting and provide an update, and get some feedback, rather than any pronouncements.

That said, tentative plans are being made for the ratification process. A full NHL board of governors' meeting is being planned for early next week, which would appear to be the earliest the lockout could be officially deemed "over." And that's if the NHLPA is able to quickly put together its ratification process, which is expected to include a membership meeting with those players unable to physically attend the meeting casting their ballots via e-mail on the NHLPA secure website The Source.

The truth is, all plans right now are, to say the least, fluid.

Until the actual document is agreed to by both sides, dates can change. For every day now the deal isn't finalized, the critical path for getting the industry back up and operating is moving on a daily basis.

Take the NHL entry draft, for example. It's tenatively scheduled for July 30 in Ottawa, but if the agreement and ratification process gets dragged out much longer, the draft could slide to Aug. 6.

In any event, the draft is almost certain to be held in Ottawa, though it will be a vastly scaled down version from what the NHL usually does. Sources suggest there will be no access for the public, other than on television, and only a small number of the top prospects, perhaps 15 to 20, and league and team officials will actually be in Ottawa for the draft.

Those plans, like everything else at this point, are a work in a progress.

In the meantime, sources say it would be a mistake to characterize what's going on in meetings between the two sides at this time in New York as simple housekeeping. There is apparently still some actual back-and-forth negotiating going on, which is grinding down the process. On top of that, there are the proofreading and legalities issues which require a little more time to button down.

No one would suggest the process is likely to be derailed in any way, but neither is it finished.

Goggles Pizano

07-11-2005, 13:54

No. That's when they will announce signing of new CBA.

I knew I should have taken that action!!! :p

Roguish Lawyer

07-13-2005, 11:07

OK, so they were two days late.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2106776

Sides will have to ratify new CBA

ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- The NHL and the players' association reached an agreement in principle on a new labor deal, ending a lockout that wiped out last season, the sides announced in statements Wednesday.

The sides met for 24 hours from Tuesday into Wednesday to hammer out the collective bargaining agreement that will return the NHL to the ice.

Both sides still need to raitfy the deal. That process is expected to be completed next week, the league and the union said in a joint news release.

A prominent player agent told ESPN The Magazine's E.J. Hradek that the draft lottery will be held on July 21, with the entry draft being held in Ottawa on July 30.

"We met all night," NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly said in an e-mail.

It took all night and then some for the final round of negotiations to produce an agreement.

The sides met for 10 straight days in New York, and it became clear Wednesday morning -- the 301st day of the lockout -- that they weren't going to leave the room without an agreement in hand.

The expected salary cap will likely have a ceiling approaching $40 million and a minimum somewhere between $20 million and $25 million.

Player salaries will not exceed 54 percent of league-wide revenues.

Some players in recent days have voiced their displeasure over what will be included in the new deal.

Commissioner Gary Bettman warned in February when he canceled the season that the offers the union passed up were better than any it would see once a year of hockey was lost.

Just days before the NHL became the first North American sports league to wipe out a full season, the players' association said for the first time it would accept a salary cap if the NHL dropped its desire to link player costs to revenues.

Bettman promised ``cost certainty'' in the form of a hard salary cap to the owners and he has gotten it.

The landscape of the NHL will be quite different than it was back in June 2004 when the Tampa Bay Lightning skated off with the Stanley Cup in the league's last game before the lockout.

Now when the league relaunches in the fall, it will do so with a brand new salary structure that keeps high-spending teams such as Toronto, Philadelphia and the New York Rangers in line.

The first order of business after the deal is ratified will be to get a majority of the players signed. The belief is that last season's contracts will be wiped from the books, leaving many players without deals.

Those who are still under contract will have their salaries reduced by 24 percent, a concept first proposed by the union in December.

There will also be several rules changes that could run the gamut from the size of goaltender equipment to the installation of a shootout to eliminate tie games.

A draft will also have to be held soon, replacing the June event that was the last casualty of the lockout.

Canadian phenom Sidney Crosby is the consensus choice to be the No. 1 pick. Where he goes will be determined by a draft lottery that will give each team an opportunity to snag him.

Roguish Lawyer

07-13-2005, 11:18

This article is better.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=130274&hubName=nhl

NHL, NHLPA reach tentative deal

TSN.ca Staff with files

7/13/2005 12:49:19 PM

And now for the words everyone has been waiting to hear: The deal is done!

The NHL and NHL Players' Association have finally reached an agreement (pending ratification) on a new six-year collective bargaining agreement that - if approved by the NHL board of governors next Thursday and the rank and file membership of the NHLPA next Tuesday - will officially end the stalemate on July 21.

The agreement, a complex document reportedly numbering more than 600 pages, came after the two sides staged marathon negotiating sessions for nine consecutive days. Since the 2004-05 NHL season was officially cancelled on Feb. 16, the league and union have met on 82 occasions, leading to an agreement that will revamp the way the entire professional hockey industry conducts its business.

The league went into this lockout, which started on Sept. 15, 2004, seeking cost certainty and believes it has achieved that with a new economic system from top to bottom.

It is expected both the NHL and NHLPA will move to ratify the agreement within the next seven days, with a formal announcement on July 21. During that time, it is expected the new CBA will be distributed to all in the hockey industry so they can begin getting themselves up to speed on a myriad of new rules and regulations.

Among the most significant features are:

- a hard team-by-team salary cap with a payroll of range of $21 million to $39 million (in the first year), which includes all player costs (benefits, insurance etc).

- the league's total expenditure on player costs (salaries, bonuses, benefits and insurance) is not permitted to exceed 54 per cent of defined hockey-related revenue and the salary cap and payroll range will move up or down as revenues increase or decrease each year of the deal.

- a 24 per-cent salary rollback for any NHL player who has time remaining on an existing contract, keeping in mind that the players will receive none of the monies they were slated to earn in the lost season of 2004-05.

- liberalized free agency (including unrestricted status at 27 by year four of the deal), a more restrictive entry level system, totally revamped salary arbitration, improved pension benefits and a revenue-sharing plan.

- Age eligibility for unrestricted free agency at age 31 in 2005, 29 in 2006, 28 in 2007. In 2008, it's 27 or seven years of NHL tenure.

This agreement (pending ratification) will kick off the most bizarre and busiest off-season in NHL history after the league became the first major professional loop to lose an entire year to labour strife.

As tutorials are conducted to allow NHL owners, general managers, NHL players and player agents to understand the new economic order, plans are already in the works for the two ratification votes.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman will be recommending acceptance of this agreement to the governors, so a simple majority of the league's 30-man ruling body will be enough to ratify it.

It's also expected the NHLPA's executive committee, led by president Trevor Linden, will be endorsing the deal, which means a simple majority of the NHLPA's more than 700 members will be enough to make it binding. For those players who cannot physically make it to the membership meeting, the vote will be conducted through the NHLPA's secure website, The Source.

Assuming both groups ratify, the NHL is expected to begin a brief transition period before the league fully re-opens for business.

But before teams and players start to concern themselves with the specifics of transition - such as the buying out of some players to allow teams to meet cap requirements or the attempted signing of 2003 and 2004 draft picks who would re-enter the 2005 entry draft if not signed - the league is expected to unveil significant changes to the game, on and off the ice.

Because no season was played in 2004-05, there is no order of selection for the 2005 entry draft, which is scheduled to take place as a scaled-down event in Ottawa on July 30. Usually, teams draft in inverse order of finish from the recently-concluded season, but this time there will be a weighted draft lottery (with the teams who have fared poorest over the last few years to get marginally better odds than those who fared well) to determine who gets the first overall pick and the right to pick young phenom Sidney Crosby. That lottery is scheduled to take place on July 21 when the NHL is expected to formally announce the new CBA.

In addition to that major business, the NHL is also expected to unveil significant rule changes aimed at making the game more exciting and fan friendly, including shootouts to end tie games and the removal of the red line for the purpose of allowing two-line passes.

While the regular season will remain at 82 games long for each team, the format of that schedule may be altered.

Once the NHL's formal news conference is put to bed, along with the lottery and rule changes, the brief transition period should unfold in order to take care of the loose ends from the expired CBA. At some point, the NHL will declare itself open for business and NHL teams will be sorting through a huge pool of unrestricted free agents as many teams make themselves over from the ground up.

Whether it is the brave new world the NHL hopes, remains to be seen, but the level of activity and uncertainty will be higher than at any other time in league history.

For now, though, the only thing that matters in the short term is this: The deal (pending ratification) is done.

The lockout wiped out the entire 2004-05 season, including all 1,230 regular-season games, denying hockey fans a Stanley Cup champion for the first time since a flu epidemic cancelled the 1919 final. The NHL became the first major professional league in North America to loose a season from beginning to end because of labour strife.

Once Bettman announced the season cancelled Feb. 16, both sides returned to the negotiating table March 11 in the first of 44 meetings aimed at making sure the 2005-06 season wouldn't be delayed.

The two sides met every single week starting in early May and didn't let up until the end, cramming in long days in the final six weeks in an effort to finally get it done.

cszakolczai

07-17-2005, 11:52

Well about time that the deal is done, and now I can watch my Devils take another cup.
Chris

magician

07-17-2005, 17:12

I can see the loss of the red line and two-line passing benefitting guys like Pavel Bure.

I wonder what will happen to the trap?

Devils suck, by the way.

;)

Roguish Lawyer

07-17-2005, 18:57

I can see the loss of the red line and two-line passing benefitting guys like Pavel Bure.

I wonder what will happen to the trap?

Devils suck, by the way.

;)

If they take away the red line, EVERYONE will play the trap. That's what they do in Europe where there is no red line.

What they need to do is actually call clutching and grabbing in the neutral zone, which they said they were going to do but never did.

Goggles Pizano

07-17-2005, 23:10

Are we missing something here? What really made the game great in the old days? Puck handling? High scoring games? Pretty goals? Nope. It's the rough and tumble, no nonsense play of everyone. Howe, Orr, LaFleur, all of them played hard. They were also highly skilled players. Gretzky was the best-no comparison. So why are we in such a hurry to change the game to a European style high scoring affair? The fans were there in the early days what makes everyone belive high scoring games will bring fans back?

I say the NHL needs to clean house and start over. Hell they already scrapped one season, why not go for broke and go with what brought you to the heyday of 80's hockey?

Devils suck. :p

jon448

07-18-2005, 07:49

I think the best way to increase the level of play would be to contract at least 4 teams. The talent pool is so diluted because of all of the expansion done in the past 10 seasons its crazy. The league expanded while the talent level and amount of truely talented players stayed about the same.
Another way would be as RL says to eliminate more of the clutching and grabbing in the neutral zone which stops plays from developing.
I don't believe eliminating the red line would make that big of a difference however one rule change that could increase scoring which would increase the number of "fans" would be to limit size of goaltender's equipment. Not just leg pads but shoulder pads as well. If you compare the goalies of the 80's and early 90's to today's goalies the difference is huge.
Andy Moog:
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/boston/MoogBos_185x250.jpg
Curtis Joseph:
http://i.cnn.net/si/hockey/2003/playoffs/goalie_analysis/images/goalie_curtis_joseph.jpg
I'll admit the angles are different but still its very different.

Devils Suck :D

Roguish Lawyer

07-18-2005, 10:48

cszakolczai

07-21-2005, 13:54

Devils Suck :D

hahaha, and I agree with your idea about the goaltenders equipment. But the redline rule is a really big factor. Trust me, I played one game where we had no 2 line passing, you can't move the puck at all. The redline and 2 line passing rule is really a pain in the ass, the stupid icing rule where you have to touch the puck to get the wistle is how people get injured. And to tell you the truth, to speed up the game, expand the size of the rink. And If you say Devils suck I have a feeling your a Rangers or Flyers fan, both of which I hate, lol.
Chris

magician

07-21-2005, 14:19

cszakolczai

07-21-2005, 14:27

I do not know that it is physically feasible to transition to a European-size rink throughout the NHL at this point, but I suspect that there would be little support for it because it would inevitably decrease the number of seats available for sale in our arenas.

I have to say...and this for me is key....I find European hockey a little bit boring. It strikes me as a bunch of fancy-pants skating around and passing. I live for those moments when the D is pounding opposing forwards off the boards, and most of all, I cherish the open-ice hit, the brutal scrum in front of the crease, and the hard shot from the point through a tangle of bodies.

Above all, though, I thoroughly appreciate the role played by instigators, the disrespectful cheap shots and liberties taken, that ultimately can only be settled by enforcers dropping the gloves and whaling bare fists on bare faces.

Flyers hockey, in short.

:)

Devils suck. Almost as much as the Rangers.

Oh man, no one likes the devils, I guess I have to go sit in the corner. But the european sized rinks are not as bad as people think. More room to move the puck but yeah I have to agree, me being a defensman I like the fact we can contain people easier and have less space to worry about. But at the same time, the wider rink does make more for speedy players to use that to there advantage and it also can add and decrease from the breakout. I think the best thing is you really need to be in position to play on a european rink, if your not your going to get caught.
Chris

Roguish Lawyer

07-21-2005, 16:28

I have to say...and this for me is key....I find European hockey a little bit boring. It strikes me as a bunch of fancy-pants skating around and passing. I live for those moments when the D is pounding opposing forwards off the boards, and most of all, I cherish the open-ice hit, the brutal scrum in front of the crease, and the hard shot from the point through a tangle of bodies.

Above all, though, I thoroughly appreciate the role played by instigators, the disrespectful cheap shots and liberties taken, that ultimately can only be settled by enforcers dropping the gloves and whaling bare fists on bare faces.

Flyers hockey, in short.

Are you sure we're not related somehow? ;)

Roguish Lawyer

07-21-2005, 17:35

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=131005&hubName=nhl

NHLPA ratifies new CBA

Canadian Press with TSN files

7/21/2005 7:14:48 PM

TORONTO (CP) - NHL players voted overwhelmingly Thursday to drop the puck, approving a labour deal both sides agreed would trigger radical change in the game.

The players, who were locked out by owners determined to instil "cost certainty" in their league, return to a game that will have a new look on and off the ice. Paycheques will be smaller but the league hopes the game will be more exciting, thanks to a series of new rules.

Thrills will be needed to lure fans back to arenas in the U.S., where hockey languishes well down the pecking order of sports. The forecast is far better in Canada, where most hockey fans can't wait to crack open a cold one and catch a game.

Chances are they will need a program to figure out who's playing for who. The new economic landscape is expected to trigger a flurry of player moves.

It marked the first time in months that either had spoken publicly on the lockout that wiped out an entire season (1,230 games plus the playoffs), kept the Stanley Cup in mothballs and soured a legion of fans.

It was also the first joint news conference for the two since Salt Lake City in 2002 when they exchanged barbs over the labour issue.

Not surprisingly, Bettman was bullish on the deal Thursday, calling it an "important catalyst in bringing us forward."

Goodenow was more muted, saying time will tell. But he was able to find some positives during a news conference that lacked drama, saying the complicated deal had "player-friendly aspects."

"I think history will show that this was an inflection point and a launching pad for all aspects of the game," he said.

Bottom line, the agreement reflected the will of his membership. Goodenow said 87 to 88 per cent of players who cast ballots did so in favour of the agreement.

"I think everyone understands. It's time to go back and play," Wayne Gretzky told The Score.

But it's clear the players probably voted holding their noses.

"It's time to move forward. We can't drag our feet any longer," said veteran Keith Primeau of the Philadelphia Flyers. "More than anything, guys just want to return to playing."

The action now shifts to New York, when the league's board of governors has its say at a 1 p.m. meeting Friday. That will be followed by a 3 p.m. news conference outlining proposed rule changes and then the draft lottery (TSN, 4 p.m.)

The lottery has a real prize for one lucky team in the form of Sidney Crosby, a teenage talent who will attract hockey fans like a magnet.

Expected rule changes include allowing two-line passes to open up the game, yet another crackdown on obstruction and shootouts to decide ties.

Bettman, for one, was confident that the NHL can win its fans back.

"I have great confidence in our game, I have great confidence in the people associated with our game and most importantly I have great faith and confidence in our fans," Bettman said.

"We will come back strongly and I believe you will see that this agreement will have been a very effective and important catalyst in bringing us forward in ways we couldn't have without the right structure."

Goodenow and Bettman were flanked at the table by their right-hand men: Ted Saskin for the NHLPA and Bill Daly for the league. Both have worked night and day in recent months to strike a deal.

Asked by reporters, both Bettman and Goodenow said they had no plans to leave their jobs. And they dismissed talk of personal antagonism between them. Still they did not shake hands.

Once the league adds its stamp of approval Friday in New York, the sport's economic landscape will be radically changed with a salary cap looming large.

There will also be a 24 per cent rollback on all existing contracts, a suggestion the players themselves made early on to counter the league's insistence on a salary cap.

"I don't like the rollback, no question," said Columbus player rep Todd Marchant, whose salary will be $2.47 million US next season instead of $3.25 million. "No one's happy about that but it's something we had to do."

Asked if he would take a 24 per cent cut in his pay, reported at $2.5 million US a year, Goodenow smiled and said that was up to union's executive.

"We haven't really frankly talked about that," he said.

And they will have to do it together. Bettman said that is one of the deal's positives.

"My perspective on this is I think this will turn out to be a wonderful agreement for the players, a wonderful agreement for the game and a wonderful agreement for our fans," he said. "And it's the type of agreement that we think a professional sports league like ours can thrive under for everyone's benefit because we are true economic partners, true partners in the game, sharing fairly. And that's always been our goal and objective."

Goodenow, who had opposed the salary cap and so-called linkage, still seemed to see the glass as half-full when talking about the agreement.

"It's revenue-driven, so everybody here is just talking about how we can increase revenues and grow the game," he said.

And he said the final document was better than earlier league proposals.

"In my opinion, clearly the deal today from our perspective is better and actually more fair to both sides than was being discussed in February," he said. "There wasn't really a deal in February."

Both sides said the new deal was complicated and would take time to unfold.

"I think this is probably a good time for everyone to take a deep breath," said Bettman. "Exactly how this deal will work will emerge over the next few weeks and months."

The new deal ties costs to revenue so both sides have an incentive to grow the game.

Some 225 players were in Toronto for the NHLPA vote, with the other 500 or so casting their ballots electronically.

The Columbus Blue Jackets didn't wait for word of the vote. Earlier in the day, they announced season-ticket prices would be reduced by eight per cent on average. The cheapest upper bowl season ticket will be $13 a game, down from $17. That's the lowest in team history.

They also announced a picnic for fans and a free exhibition game against Buffalo for season-ticket holders.

Labour wasn't the only issue addressed Thursday.

Asked at the news conference about reinstating suspended Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi, Bettman said it was on his list of things to do.

"We have a lot going on right now," he said dryly.

As for the NHL draft, Bettman said it was returning to Ottawa - the expected date is July 30.

cszakolczai

07-22-2005, 18:31

Back in business, about time, now lets just hope they can survive this and get back to good ole' fashioned hockey.
Chris

Roguish Lawyer

07-23-2005, 10:48

Pittsburgh got Crosby. I don't think he's all that, but it still sucks.

magician

07-23-2005, 10:53

Crosby now gets to be mentored by Mark Recci, one of the greatest NHL'ers of all time, IMO.

That poor kid is going to get pounded when they go to Philly.

:)

PS: almost forgot: Devils suck.

:)

Roguish Lawyer

07-23-2005, 10:54

Crosby now gets to be mentored by Mark Recci, one of the greatest NHL'ers of all time, IMO.

That poor kid is going to get pounded when they go to Philly.

:)

Not really. Philly's D-men are all Euro pussies. Look at their roster.

gk404

07-23-2005, 10:56

Crosby now gets to be mentored by Mark Recci, one of the greatest NHL'ers of all time, IMO.

That poor kid is going to get pounded when they go to Philly.

:)

Don't forget Mario...

And hopefully it will help the team regain some of it's fanbase.

magician

07-23-2005, 11:05

are you trying to instigate with me, counselor?

:)

I cannot refute your comment, however.

What I can say...is that there is a style of play which traditionally holds sway in Philly. I have confidence that Clarkie will make the necessary moves to ensure that he deploys a team capable of holding its own.

It is going to be interesting, though....to see how the teams shake out after the cap. Lots of talent will be looking for a home.

I really miss Luke Richardson and Danny McGillis. The Bruise Brothers. Luke was not the best D-man ever....but the guy always, and I mean always, stood up for his team mates. And McGillis....the guy had offensive upside that was never really developed in Philly, IMO. And needless to say, he was one of the roughest D-men in the league. I think that Philly should have moved Therien long, long ago.

I still think that the hottest D-man ever grown out of the Philly system was Delmore. The guy was afraid to take a hit, but he had a wicked wrist shot, one of the heaviest in the league, I think. After he went to Nashville...I was really pleased to see that he was leading the league in goals by D-men. I never had much use for Eaton. But Delmore....the guy had real potential. He needed work...but damn, the guy was dangerous at the points.

I hope that Desjardin can come back from injury. He plays a little bit too sophisticated for me....but his points speak for themselves.

It would not surprise me if Clarkie scores a hard-hitting D-man before the season opens. There are some really good free agents available right now. Hate to say it...a couple of them belonged to the Devils, who hugely suck, by the way.

:)

gk404

07-23-2005, 11:05

Not really. Philly's D-men are all Euro pussies. Look at their roster.

Their two toughest guys, (that I can think of) are American... Brashear and Roenick

(edit: Nevermind, I completely missed the D-men part. )

magician

07-23-2005, 11:10

I consider Roenick a skill player, not a real physical player.

Brashear...is a franchise enforcer.

Todd Fedoruk will probably remain with the team, too. The staff love the guy.

I can remember when the two Feds, Fedotenko and Fedoruk, came up from the Phantoms. We used to yell, "send in the Feds!" I hated to see Fedotenko get traded. He made Philly pay during the last playoffs. Big time.

And now, he has a Cup ring.

:)

As for the Devils....they can eat me.

:)

casey

07-23-2005, 12:23

Not really. Philly's D-men are all Euro pussies. Look at their roster.

Blasphemer !!!! I have your XXS Devils jersey and cap awaiting your arrival at the South Broad St ticket window. Not knowing what number you would desire, I had a big red zero (with several smaller ones inside) afixed on the back so you could remain neutral.

jon448

07-23-2005, 20:08

hahaha, and I agree with your idea about the goaltenders equipment. But the redline rule is a really big factor. Trust me, I played one game where we had no 2 line passing, you can't move the puck at all. The redline and 2 line passing rule is really a pain in the ass, the stupid icing rule where you have to touch the puck to get the wistle is how people get injured. And to tell you the truth, to speed up the game, expand the size of the rink. And If you say Devils suck I have a feeling your a Rangers or Flyers fan, both of which I hate, lol.
Chris
Yeah thats true I've never actually played a game where there is a 2 line pass so I really can't tell the difference. And there is no way in hell they're gonna expand the rink size, after all that would cost the owners too much money.
And I'm not a Rags or Flyers fan. B's all the way baby

Devils, Flyers and Rangers Suck :D

jon448

07-23-2005, 20:16

Blasphemer !!!!
Well who other then Desjardin can actually check on your D? And he's hurt more often then not.
Although I should be one to talk... The B's have Gill who's a teddy bear, Boynton who goes out of his way to hit people and still usually misses, and thats all we have signed now. Gotta love our management :rolleyes:

Roguish Lawyer

07-23-2005, 20:58

Casey, don't blame the messenger. The Flyers are my favorite team in the East.

S, "Any Elmore" is the correct spelling of that player's name.

magician

07-23-2005, 23:28

Casey, don't blame the messenger. The Flyers are my favorite team in the East.

S, "Any Elmore" is the correct spelling of that player's name.

Huh?

I do not get it. (Be gentle with me, I have long associated with Italian-Americans from South Philly).

;)

The fact that the premier hockey institution in America is your favorite team earns you much latitude with me.

Now...let's look at the state of the Flyers D.

Mattias Timander, 6-3, 230 pounds.
Kim Johnsson, 6-1, 205 pounds.
Marcus Ragnarsson, 6-1, 215 pounds
Eric Desjardins, 6-1, 200 pounds
Danny Markov, 5-1, 190 pounds

Joni Pitkanen, 6-3, 202 pounds

We picked up Ragnarsson in a trade with San Jose for Danny McGillis, one of Clarkie's poorer moves, in my opinion. We acquired Danny Markov from Carolina for Justin Williams. I dislike that trade, too. Williams....even though he is very small, has flashes of brilliance. And he plays with a lot of heart. We have worse forwards on the roster, far worse, and Markov is not "all that." Not worth the price, in my estimation.

Desjardins and Johnsson....both offensive D-men. Very offensive. But not pugilists. Timander....is a big boy....but he is a Euro.

Pitkanen....young D-man, very much in the mold of Desjardin and Johnsson. He is likely to make the big club this year. I just hope that we do not trade him. If we are going to trade any D-man....I would say move Ragnarsson, or (gasp) Desjardin. Desjardin has been a staple of the Flyers D for years now. Like Johnny LeClair, he bleeds Orange and Black. But like LeClair, Desjardin is getting old, and he has been beset by injury.

So, yes. As it stands, the Flyers D is weak, and yes, there is a disproportionate number of Eurofags on the roster. Here is what Clarkie said at the last Flyer's press conference, the one where he commented on placing John LeClair and Tony Amonte on waivers: "We'll get into free agency and maybe sign a defenseman or two." Coming from Clarkie, that is tantamount to stating that beefing up the Flyer's D is job one. I suspect that the kibitzers from South Philly are talking about nothing else, right now.

As it stands, the Flyers are heavy in what Coach Hitch likes to call "mobile, puck moving defensemen." These guys are skaters, more than they are pounders. You need a mix, obviously. Now is when we need Danny McGillis back on the roster.

I have no idea who is available in free agency, but like I said, I have an inkling that some former Devils are looking for a home (Scott Niedermayer). They would not even need to sell their houses, or get new tags for their cars.

:)

Devils blow.

magician

07-23-2005, 23:32

Flyers: It’s Friday Night Fights at the Wachovia

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=11081006&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6

03/06/2004

By ROB PARENT robparent@aol.com PHILADELPHIA -- Even in real life, it can be more about the bonding of brothers than the loss of teammates. Such dramatic plots are always spelled out best on the sports stage, especially when a team hounded by injuries gains a conquest over a favorite rival.

And in hockey, nothing is better than a show like this with a nice, healthy brawl as an encore.

Or two brawls ... or three ... oops, make that four. Oh, there goes a fifth ...

Down to four defensemen for much of the game but having already spotted themselves a three-goal lead, the Flyers pulled out all emergency stops Friday night -- including forward Sami Kapanen as a defenseman and goalie Robert Esche as a fighter -- en route to an inspiring 5-3 victory over the Ottawa Senators.

It was, as this game’s respective radio guys could have said, a game that would live in beautiful infamy. Of course, they were probably fighting, too.

Claude Lapointe, Mark Recchi and Danny Markov registered first-period goals to give the Flyers an early pad over the team that knocked them out of the playoffs the past two years. Then Esche made a couple of big saves down the stretch before Alexei Zhamnov’s goal put it all on ice.

But it was far from finished. Still to come in the final two minutes -- five consecutive fights that blossomed into a NHL-record 419 penalty minutes, with the Flyers accounting for a franchise-high 213 of them.

"That kind of thing happens in a hockey game," said Michal Handzus. "It kept going and kept going, but we stuck together as a team. We fought until the end."

Ah, but that wasn’t the end of it. This screwy scrumfest almost continued backstage. For Flyers general manager Bob Clarke went after Ottawa coach Jacques Martin, apparently trying to get his version of what happened.

While security and team officials were keeping them distanced at Ottawa’s end of the hallway, two respective television brawlers brandishing microphones -- one panicky Canadian and another serious Philadelphian -- literally crashed into each other outside the Flyers’ locker room. Wound up creating enough of a disturbance for security to come running.

Busy, busy boys ...

With the Senators thoroughly embarrassed by the game and Flyers coach Ken Hitchcock’s week-old characterization of Ottawa’s Martin Havlat as a dirty player who would "get his lunch" still ringing in their ears, the Senators commenced to search for revenge.

Dignity be damned.

Ottawa coach Jacques Martin sent Rob Ray onto the ice. He started the season doing color analysis for Buffalo but recently was hired by Ottawa for ... what, scoring help down the stretch?

Couldn’t be for fighting, since Donald Brashear pounded Ray to a bloody pulp, the first of five pugilistic stoppages over 32 seconds while both teams commenced to pound a season of frustration out on each other.

Over those 32 precious seconds of sport: Ten fights involving 23 players accounting for 397 penalty minutes. All those guys were given the boot to the locker room, including 16 indicted with game misconducts. Chalking up his third of the season was Markov, who thus will be suspended from tonight’s Flyers game in Washington.

Yikes. Now cue Mr. Clarke ...

"Martin kept sending out guys to fight," Clarke told the Daily Times. "Martin hid Havlat in the penalty box (serving a fighting penalty for goalie Patrick Lalime) and wouldn’t put (Daniel) Alfredsson and (Peter) Bondra and those guys out there. So he wasn’t trying to win the game."

Clarke scoffed at the notion that Hitchcock -- who stopped just short of putting a bounty on Havlat’s head after he two-handed Mark Recchi Feb. 16 -- had helped precipitate this mess.

"There was a fight between Ray and Brashear. Ray isn’t out there to score goals," said Clarke. "That fight’s over, so let it go. Then they’re jumping our guys who don’t fight, (Mattias) Timander, (Patrick) Sharp ... at least Sharp’s a North American. He knows how to fight. But their guys kept jumping on (bleepin’) Europeans. Martin sends out somebody to jump on (Sami) Kapanen? What the (bleep) is going on with that?

"That gutless puke Martin doing that (crap). But when you pull that (crap) off it comes back to get you. They have to come in here one more time. They won’t be able to hide Alfredsson and (Marian) Hossa and all those guys then."

Clarke wanted to tell that to Martin himself, but was kept from doing so. Still, Martin responded with typical blandness: "I think the games between us have been played hard and it’s just close encounters."

Yeah, it was as close to science fiction fantasy as sports can get.

To wit, here’s Esche, who made 20 saves before dancing with Lalime and managing to get two game misconducts (and a likely suspension) in the process.

"I think he was embarrassed that he let in five goals," Esche said of Lalime. "But it’s fun for hockey, it’s fun for our team, it’s fun for our fans -- I thought it was perfect."

Said Flyers coach Ken Hitchcock: "It was the Wild, Wild West out there."

Too bad there weren’t any guns.

©The Daily Times 2005

PS: Devils suck.

Roguish Lawyer

07-24-2005, 02:45

Huh?

I do not get it. (Be gentle with me, I have long associated with Italian-Americans from South Philly).

;)

The fact that the premier hockey institution in America is your favorite team earns you much latitude with me.

Now...let's look at the state of the Flyers D.

Mattias Timander, 6-3, 230 pounds.
Kim Johnsson, 6-1, 205 pounds.
Marcus Ragnarsson, 6-1, 215 pounds
Eric Desjardins, 6-1, 200 pounds
Danny Markov, 5-1, 190 pounds

Joni Pitkanen, 6-3, 202 pounds

There is no "D" in that defenseman you traded. Thus, "Any Elmore," not "Andy Delmore."

Desjardins was hurt last year, so I did not count him. He is a real player. The others are all Euros and not traditional Flyers defensemen. Pitkanen, though, will be a dominant player one day. That trade was a brutal rape of Tampa Bay.

Give me the Watson boys, Van Impe, Ashbee, Bladon and Harris. And Dave Schultz.

The Kings are my favorite team. The Flyers are my favorite team in the Eastern Conference, not in the NHL. I own one Flyers hat and one Flyers jersey, but my closets are full of Kings gear.

magician

07-24-2005, 04:17

The Kings are my favorite team. The Flyers are my favorite team in the Eastern Conference, not in the NHL. I own one Flyers hat and one Flyers jersey, but my closets are full of Kings gear.

you will come around.

you like the Kings for geographical reasons. Like me, you love the Flyers because of their mythos.

Devils blow.

:)

Roguish Lawyer

07-24-2005, 11:02

you will come around.

you like the Kings for geographical reasons. Like me, you love the Flyers because of their mythos.

Devils blow.

:)

I grew up in Phoenix where there was no team, but my parents are from Philly and Wilmington, respectively, and we went back to visit family a lot. My first games were Flyers games back in the day, and they were my favorite team for a long time. Rick Tocchet probably is my favorite Flyer player, and he later played in LA.

When I moved to LA and had a local team to watch, I gradually became a Kings fan. Now I am rabid. I love wearing Kings jerseys into opposing teams' arenas -- will do in Philly if I can get there when the Kings are in town. My sources tell me, however, that they are cutting way back on interconference play under the new CBA to reduce travel expenses and burden on the players. Teams will only play against one division in the other conference each year. I am unhappy about that, as I like to see the Flyers and other Eastern teams come to town.

Devils fans are completely pathetic by the way. I went to a Devils-Senators Conference Finals playoff game when I was in NY, and was able to buy good lower bowl tickets AT THE WINDOW right before the game. What a joke. They can't even sell out a conference finals game?

magician

07-24-2005, 11:24

Tocchet.

What a warrior.

Good that you get out to Philly every once in awhile. You can get some good food. No bean sprouts.

I did not grow up in Philly, but I ended up living on the periphery for about ten years. I grew to really appreciate Wilmington, as it is a small city, with all the amenities of a larger metropolis. And it is right down the road from the First Union Center.

Got to say....I have been here for over a year now, and I have settled in nicely. But I would pop smoke in a heartbeat for a small cabin with a satellite dish and NHL Center Ice. A crackling fire....snow falling outside....and a bucket of spicy wings from Wings to Go.

I will be heading back to the states in a few weeks. Going to look around. I do not think that I want to miss this upcoming season.

Devils blow. (The Kings....do not even register on my radar).

;)

Roguish Lawyer

07-24-2005, 11:33

The Kings....do not even register on my radar

Phew! ;)

cszakolczai

07-26-2005, 10:45

Tocchet.

Devils blow. (The Kings....do not even register on my radar).

;)

Kings don't register on my radar either, but about the Devils... I won't make fun of you guys to much when they win the cup again.
Chris

brownapple

07-26-2005, 20:29

Man, if there was any proof that Hockey needs to fold some teams, it's this thread. You guys are listing people that wouldn't have made it off the Toledo Goaldiggers twenty years ago.

Roguish Lawyer

07-26-2005, 22:09

Rangers suck.
Islanders blow.

But I will admit that I really liked the one-hour â€œHockey is Backâ€ show here on one of the local NYC channels. Headed down to Philly tomorrow.

magician

07-27-2005, 02:57

damn.

wish that I was going to Philly.

I need a sandwich.

a GOOD sandwich.

:)

The Reaper

07-27-2005, 07:35

damn.

wish that I was going to Philly.

I need a sandwich.

a GOOD sandwich.

:)

Yeah.

I want a hot 20 year old hottie and to live in a tropical paradise.

Life must be tough for you, brother.

TR

Roguish Lawyer

07-27-2005, 08:00

LOL -- I had the same reaction, TR. Time to locate those crab fries casey keeps raving about.

Goggles Pizano

07-27-2005, 09:26

LOL -- I had the same reaction, TR. Time to locate those crab fries casey keeps raving about.

You won't be disappointed RL! Just had some two weeks ago at Chickie and Petes.

Magician I was at that Senator's game and I can tell you it was the best time I have ever had at a game!

Oh and the Devils truly do suck, on all levels. :D

Roguish Lawyer

07-27-2005, 09:31

You can read about my lunch in the Philly Cheese Steaks thread.

On the way here, they were interviewing Ken Hitchcock on the radio. They're thinking about signing Derian Hatcher. That would be a great signing if he's healthy. Instant depussification of the defense.

magician

07-27-2005, 11:14

Point taken, and it is a good one.

:)

She made mashed potatoes and stew for me tonight. From scratch. She got this cookbook, How to Cook for Old, Fat Farang. Works great.

Just so that there is absolutely no confusion whatsover: anyone can come here and have a twenty year old girlfriend, if you so choose. I say this so that you guys realize that it is an option that is on your menu of choices.

Man, I wish that someone had video of that game. I missed it, unfortunately.

Derian Hatcher....he is getting pretty old. The guy is a warrior, though. He might just be the ticket. Or someone like him.

One thing about Ed Snyder and Bobby Clarke: they are not afraid to break out the checkbook when they need something or somebody for the team.

Devils blow!

;)

cszakolczai

07-29-2005, 18:28

damn.

wish that I was going to Philly.

I need a sandwich.

a GOOD sandwich.

:)

You want a really good sandwich, come to Princeton, we have a place called hoagie haven, the name tells it all.
Chris

Goggles Pizano

07-29-2005, 23:14

You want a really good sandwich, come to Princeton, we have a place called hoagie haven, the name tells it all.
Chris

BAH! Get a hold of yourself lad! Your a Devils fan in disguise!

RL I caught your culinary review in the other post. Sorry to hear it was not up to standard. That is out of sorts for them.

Magician I promise you a godamned good hoagie next time you make it to town. My treat.

Oh and CZ the Devils most definitely SUCK mung juice!!!!

cszakolczai

07-30-2005, 07:35

BAH! Get a hold of yourself lad! Your a Devils fan in disguise!

RL I caught your culinary review in the other post. Sorry to hear it was not up to standard. That is out of sorts for them.

Magician I promise you a godamned good hoagie next time you make it to town. My treat.

Oh and CZ the Devils most definitely SUCK mung juice!!!!

Oh man I know I'm a Devils fan, but one thing you don't do is make fun of my hoagie haven. That place is the best place in the world. People from all over NJ come there to just get a glimpse of it, anyone who stops into Princeton, the Hoagies are on me. :D
Chris

magician

07-30-2005, 08:22

Goggles, you and I will be heading over to Cavazzini's in People's Plaza for a gourmet Italian hoagie.

When it is time to watch The Flyers slay the Devils, we will sit down with a monstrous bucket of Suicide wings from Wings-to-Go with our other brothers in the area.

The next day, to recover, we will dine at Mrs. Robino's, on Union street in Wilmington.

It does not get better than that.

:)

Goggles Pizano

07-30-2005, 09:13

Done and done my friend!!!! How about we adjust the "watch" the game to "attend" it? Season ticket holder Bro! :D

magician

07-30-2005, 11:13

holy shit.

can we paint our faces and chests?

:)

Devils blow!

Goggles Pizano

07-30-2005, 11:24

How about we just begin an endless "Devils suck!" chant? :munchin

Oh and the Devils most definitly S U C K!

The Reaper

07-30-2005, 11:58

Well now, dammit, like golf and tennis, I don't consider hockey a sport worth watching on TV, but do these Devils suck, or do they blow? You can't have it both ways.

TR

Goggles Pizano

07-30-2005, 14:06

Sir,

I can assure you if a Flyers/Devils game you attend then a fan you will become. The action in the stands is just as spirited as on the ice.

As for suck vs blow is the method a matter of consequence if the end result is the same (so says my wife anyway)? :D

Roycroft201

07-30-2005, 16:17

OK.

I've kept quiet long enough on this thread. ( If FS were around I'd have her here as my posse: arms folded, toe tapping, whip in hand, to make sure I have your undivided attention.)

BUFFALO. It's all about Buffalo.

First, Brew's CORRECT answer about the Anchor Bar in Buffalo originating chicken wings ( and this ridculous nomenclature, " Buffalo Wings" just has to stop ! They are called ' wings'. Period. As in," I would like a double order of wings, please. Suicidal (that is beyond 'hot',) with extra blue cheese and celery. Thank you."
OK ? Neither Bisons, nor their cousins' the Buffalo, have 'wings'. Therefore, "Buffalo wings" is incorrect.

Now that we have settled that little matter,
Second: Buffalo has continued to be on a roll when our President nominated BUFFALO born John Roberts as his nominee for the Supreme Court. Granted, he and his family moved from this area when his father was transferred by Bethlehem Steel, but Mr. Roberts did celebrate his First Communion in the parish just down the road from here. And let's face it - it must be something in the water here...Pres. Millard Fillmore was from Buffalo (yes, McKinley did get shot and killed here but we have restored the Mansion where Teddy Roosevelt took the oath of office). Mark Twain spent a number of years here, as well. I could go on, and on with the list of notable people from Buffalo, but you get my drift. Judge Roberts is just our latest example.

Sooooooo, lastly (be patient - I am getting to the point), here we find ourselves in a discussion about HOCKEY. HELLO ? The only mention you make of Buffalo and our SABRES is Rob Ray's brief appearance ? Come on !! Do you not remember the French Connection ? - Gilbert Perrault, Rick Martin and Rene Robert ?! An amazing line! One that dreams are made of !! Buffalo was in contention for the Cup before many of these 'fans' on this thread were born ! Yes, I will concede that we are 'rebuilding' at the moment so our standings seem to say that we are not doing well. But do not be fooled by that man behind the curtain! We will return !

Therefore, while Magic Man and Goggles do their high fives with their chests painted in team colors of the Flyers ( they Cheat ! They are Bullies ! They play dirty ! ) I will be sitting and enjoying the Sabres as they continue their quest for the Cup, with a bucket of REAL WINGS, for my friends and I to enjoy.

You discuss HOCKEY and do NOT mention BUFFALO ? Shame on you !!

(Ok - FS - please crack that whip now. :lifter )

RC201

magician

07-30-2005, 16:39

Hey, B.

How you doing.

The Sabres were watchable when they had Michael Peca. They were at least capable of playing a competitive game.

One thing about Peca....he played with his heart on his sleeve. And when it was called for, he played dirty.

The other great thing that the Sabres had going for them was the Dominator in the net.

But now....

I will leave it at that.

:)

Devils SUCK.

Roguish Lawyer

08-02-2005, 10:10

Looks like Clarkie is really going to toughen the Flyers' D -- Hatcher AND Rathje!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=132177&hubName=nhl

magician

08-02-2005, 10:59

I think that it might be a gamble that Hatcher remains healthy.

I cannot believe that Clarkie took Therien over Danny McGillis. I am sick about this.

I was never a Therien fan. The guy NEVER made the big hits.

I will say it again, the days when the Bruise Brothers, McGillis and Luke Richardson, stood up at the blue line were the halcyon days of the Flyers D. You could hear the "boom" as they plastered forwards into the boards all over the arena, and when the puck squirted free, that was it: Lindros would be off, swooping in alone on the goaltender.

I am positively ill about the prospect of Therien returning to the Flyers. The guy was there for years and years. No one had more tenure than he. The guy was paired with Desjardin for so long that he developed delusions of grandeur, and his agent actually marketed him as a "second defenseman."

Pardon me. I need to go off alone and mourn.

Devils blow!

;)

Roguish Lawyer

08-02-2005, 11:39

If you liked McGillis, you'll love Rathje. He is one tough mother. I'm glad he's leaving our division.

Goggles Pizano

08-02-2005, 11:56

Hey Magician I don't think you need to fret. Therien (who is horrible) will ride the bench mostly and fill in for injuries. He can give Hatcher and Desjardins rests periodically during the season keeping them healthy for the playoffs. RL is correct, Rathje is a good addition. I think fans will be pleased.

Roguish Lawyer

08-02-2005, 12:26

I assume you guys heard about Fedoruk? Bad loss for you, but Clarke got a second round pick for him, which is aggravated rape.

Roguish Lawyer

08-02-2005, 16:50

magician

08-02-2005, 18:07

Boy, it is a great time to be a hockey fan. There is so much uncertainty and excitement over every one of these free agent signing announcements. There are currently more than 1,000 people on-line at one of the hockey message boards I frequent right now. What a zoo.

The Kings signed Pavol Demitra. So there. :lifter

Good luck with that.

;)

Which board?

Goggles, my distress is less the fact that he is returning than the fact that Clarkie could have passed on him in favor of McGillis. Given the choice between the two, there is no doubt that McGillis is the better choice.

Going to read up on Rathje now.

Fedoruk was a good kid....but I think that the organization did him a favor by trading him. He is likely to get more ice time elsewhere than with the Flyers.

Devils BLOW!

Roguish Lawyer

08-02-2005, 18:11

Which board?

www.letsgokings.com

The thing is barely operating because of the crush.

Roguish Lawyer

08-03-2005, 16:56

Holy shit. I wanted Forsberg, but I'll be happy if we get the consolation prize. I am a big JR fan.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=132338&hubName=nhl

Flyers land Forsberg

TSN.ca Staff

8/3/2005 6:47:51 PM

Peter Forsberg is going back where he started. TSN has learned that the Philadelphia Flyers have signed Forsberg to a two-year deal worth $10.7 million.

Forsberg will get $5.7 million in the first year of the deal and $5.0 in the second year.

The aquisition of Forsberg puts the Flyers over the NHL's salary cap, but GM Bob Clarke expects to make a trade within the next two days to get back under the league's financial limit.

The player most likely to go is veteran Jeremy Roenick, with NHL sources suggesting he is about to be moved to the L.A. Kings.

Forsberg was orginally drafted by the Flyers, 6th overall, in 1991. He was then traded to the Quebec Nordiques in the Eric Lindros deal in 1992 before ever playing a game with Philadelphia.

Forsberg has 741 points in 580 NHL games. He was considered the top forward available in this off-season's free agent crop.

magician

08-03-2005, 17:44

NOOOOOOO !!

I could care less about Forsberg.

If Clarkie sends JR down the road, it will be an error of mammoth proportions.

DAMN.

Devils BLOW.

Roguish Lawyer

08-03-2005, 17:46

RDS is reporting that a Roenick-to-LA deal is done, but there are no details and that website is in French. French-Canadian is better than French, though. :)

magician

08-03-2005, 18:13

Associated Press is reporting that Roenick told radio station WIP in Philly that he was expecting to be traded.

The articles quotes JR: "The Flyers have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup with Peter Forsberg than with Jeremy Roenick."

I utterly disagree. Like Hatcher, Forsberg's health and durability are a question mark. With Roenick, I know that he will play, and play at a high level, even if bones are sticking out.

I have misgivings about this trade, counselor. Someone needs to go to Vorhees and smack Bobby Clarke upside his noggin.

Devils SUCK.

Roguish Lawyer

08-03-2005, 18:26

I have misgivings about this trade, counselor. Someone needs to go to Vorhees and smack Bobby Clarke upside his noggin.

The only RUMINT on the trade I have heard is that the Kings are sending Mike Cammalleri and a 2nd for him, which is a great trade for the Flyers and a terrible trade for the Kings. I love Roenick, but he is past his prime and due almost $5MM next year, which is above market for a player of his production. Cammalleri was 2nd in the AHL in scoring last year and likely will be a solid 2nd line center for 10 years. I am hoping that is not the deal.

Roguish Lawyer

08-03-2005, 18:30

With JR and Sean Avery, the Kings would have two of the biggest mouths in the NHL and be very tough to play against. :)

magician

08-04-2005, 12:14

Well, it is done.

*Sigh*

We will see how it pans out.

:)

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14979057&BRD=1710&PAG=740&dept_id=353128&rfi=6

Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - In an expected move, the Philadelphia Flyers traded center Jeremy Roenick and a third-round selection in the 2006 NHL Entry Draft to the Los Angeles Kings in exchange for future considerations.

The deal was necessary due to the Flyers' signing of former Hart Trophy winner Peter Forsberg on Wednesday. Philadelphia needed to make room below the NHL's new $39 million salary cap. During the 2003-04 season, Roenick recorded 19 goals and 28 assists in 62 regular-season games for the Flyers. It was his third season with the team, after signing as a free agent before the 2001-02 campaign. Roenick missed 19 games from February 14 through March 23, 2004 due to a broken left jaw and concussion sustained in a game against the Rangers in New York on February 12, 2004. He suffered another concussion during the Eastern Conference finals against Tampa Bay, and subsequently missed the 2004 World Cup of Hockey due to the recurring injuries. In 1,124 career regular season NHL games over 16 seasons with the Chicago Blackhawks, Phoenix Coyotes and Flyers, Roenick has registered 475 goals and 645 assists for 1,120 points and 1,345 penalty minutes.

Roguish Lawyer

08-04-2005, 13:13

in exchange for future considerations.

:munchin

jon448

08-04-2005, 13:56

These past few days have been crazy... It's going to be interesting when the season starts to try to remember who's moved where. The B's have been fairly busy although much less productively then the Flyers disappointingly enough.
Good thing we still haven't resigned our two best players and everyone we've signed has basically been over the age of 32. God I love Mike O'Connell. :rolleyes:

Roguish Lawyer

08-04-2005, 15:43

I watched the first 18 minutes of the press conference webcast before losing the stream. I am totally pumped! We are going to be so tough to play against!

magician

08-04-2005, 15:54

What is your "no BS" assessment of Rathje?

I have read that he is a decent positional D-man, but that he was not popular with Shark fans because he was not enough of a hitter.

On the other hand, I was pleased (and I hate to phrase it this way), that the Flyers only handed Bundy (Therien) a one-year contract at a half-mil. After Hatcher gets hurt again, Bundy may end up making Clarkie look like a genius.

Devils suck!

Roguish Lawyer

08-04-2005, 16:22

What is your "no BS" assessment of Rathje?

Solid, physical defensive d-man. You'll like him.

Roguish Lawyer

08-04-2005, 17:02

I am sorry to report that Dan McGillis has signed with a team that blows. :boohoo

magician

08-04-2005, 19:31

Holy shit.

The Devils signed Rafalski, Malakov, and McGillis.

This is going to be bad.

Hate to say it....but it looks like they have the Flyers D outclassed.

Now they truly blow.

:)

Goggles Pizano

08-05-2005, 08:43

Not sure I agree. Yeah they got McGillis and resigned Rafalski but I remain optomistic about our offenseive capability since we have brought up a couple of good skating/shooting wings and centers from an outstanding Phantoms team. Jury is still out RL but we on Broad street can remain positive. :lifter

Hated to lose JR but business is business.

Devils suck even with McGillis!

magician

08-05-2005, 22:07

True enough.

One thing that we Flyer fans have always had going for us was the certainty that Mr. Snyder and Clarkie would do what was necessary (http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/sports/s080505a.htm) to deploy a competitive team capable of contending for the Cup.

We have come so close, so many times!

I cannot remember which year that it was....but I think that my favorite "almost" season was the one where we were defeated by the Devils (who blow) in game seven of the Cup semi-finals. And this, after we had them down three games to one. All that we needed to do was win one more game.

That was the game where Scott Stephens demolished the remnants of the career of Eric Lindros with one of the most savage open ice hits that I have ever seen. It was....very sad to see. Lindros had come back from injury one game sooner than advised by the team doctor. And he had been the best player on the ice, for as long as it lasted.

Brian Bouchet was in the net, and the kid was a wünderkinde. He kept us in it far beyond what the team deserved. Bouchet had outdueled Martin Brodeur so many times that season. I really felt for him, most of all, when that last goal went in, and the Flyer's run for the Cup ended.

I am getting ready for another long season, another long run.

We will see, soon enough, how our D stacks up.

:)

Devils SUCK!