View Full Version : Oldest SF candidate
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 06:37
Hello all: This is a great forum and Im honored to be allowed on.
Question here, How old is the oldest SF candidate to complete the Q-course.
Im in a unit of very fit 35-42 year olds and I dont think they are "too old"for that type of challenge-but what do I know?
Thanks
SOMEDIC
Team Sergeant
06-08-2005, 06:46
Hello all: This is a great forum and Im honored to be allowed on.
Question here, How old is the oldest SF candidate to complete the Q-course.
Im in a unit of very fit 35-42 year olds and I dont think they are "too old"for that type of challenge-but what do I know?
Thanks
SOMEDIC
IIRC when I was on active duty the average age of a Special Forces soldier was 30+ with ten years of militery service.
I've no doubt that the oldest candidate will be in their late 40's-50's.
TS
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 07:08
Team Sgt: Thank you for reply. Basically what you are telling me is that a 38 y/o in reasonable shape will have no age specific problems trying to get entry into SF? This is important to me on a personal level. Thank you
Team Sergeant
06-08-2005, 07:27
Team Sgt: Thank you for reply. Basically what you are telling me is that a 38 y/o in reasonable shape will have no age specific problems trying to get entry into SF? This is important to me on a personal level. Thank you
Now that I do not know, regs change from day to day concerning age requirements.
What I'm saying is that physically, yes, a man of that age could make it through the course.
BTW, "reasonable shape" is not enough to make it through the Special Forces course, not even if you're 20.
TS
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 09:09
Team Sgt: Thanks again for the reply. By "reasonable shape" I meant to say is some one healthy and with out a lot of physical limitations or chronic medical problems.
This is why I am curious as to the age of the oldest SF candidate.
Thanks again Team Sgt
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-08-2005, 09:13
Basically what you are telling me is that a 38 y/o in reasonable shape will have no age specific problems trying to get entry into SF?
Physical condition is only part of the package. There are also certain intellect and basic levelsl of intelligence also involved. Someone with a 21 inch neck and an IQ to match will not make it.
Jack Moroney
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 10:19
J Moroney: Understood Sir!
Sirs,
I just went through Selection (05-05) and we had several fellows in their late thirties and early forties. Only one 40 year old passed; others were med-drops/VW's. In my unit, we've had 5 or 6 guys go through and make it in their late thirties only to be dropped from SUT or Third phase or one reason or another.
I myself am 31 and went to Airborne a week after being beat up in Selection. A month and change later, I'm still recovering (mostly from an infection I got at Airborne). I was in great shape (290 PFT) when I left and while I was selected, I found that I ran in the middle of the pack at selection. Even now, my future orders to SFQC are contingent on my recovery and top notch physical readiness. I'm not bitching: this is the way it is and the way it should be.
It is my opinion that a properly prepared individual of nearly any reasonable age can succeed. That said, know you're competing against young men, with some 18X's being just 18 years old. I believe the average age of those selected was in the mid-twenties.
I say go for it. If you're having a problem getting orders because of your age, consider one of the NG units. They appear to have greater flexiblity in this regard.
Thank you for allowing me to post and best regards,
Books
J Moroney: Understood Sir!
The problem with an older/senior person going through the Q Course is after graduation and its mental. How fixed in your ways are you? How ingrained is the straight Army in you.
SF is part of the Army and operates within the system, just not quite the same at the team level, and for some SF guys a lot higher. A senior SFC, set in his ways, can hit a team and all kinds of silly shit can break out. I've seen just about everything and I'd rather have a squared away PFC right out of the Q course assigned to my team then a squared away SFC right out of the Q course.
I knew of one guy that made the 8 list while in the course. I'll keep that story to myself, just let you think on it.
Pete
A guy who could change roles and hob-nob with a Brigade CSM any day
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 13:06
Pete Than you for posting in. I hate the regular Army. Im a medic in the National Guard. Im a paramedic in the civilian world and I am with out any challenges any more. I feel the calling to SF. I have over the years read, researched, and talked to anyone in SF. I should have been an 18-D years ago. I dont want to die with regrets. There is no me set in my ways (mentality). Im also attracted to SF because they are not like the rest of the Army. There will be no issues of that sort
Thanks again. good to hear form you
somedic
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-08-2005, 14:20
How fixed in your ways are you? How ingrained is the straight Army in you.
I agree completely and it certainly not limited to senior NCOs.
Jack Moroney
D9 (RIP)
06-08-2005, 14:40
There's a 44 y.o. in language school with me. I know of a 45 y.o. who just passed SFAS. But you will have to compensate for your age with your fitness. I'm learning that lesson even at a relatively young 33.
haztacmedic
06-08-2005, 15:22
D9: Thanks for taking the time to post in on this subject. A 45 y/o made it through selection? That is inspiring! Good luck to you and thanks again
somedic
The Reaper
06-08-2005, 20:23
D9: Thanks for taking the time to post in on this subject. A 45 y/o made it through selection? That is inspiring! Good luck to you and thanks again
somedic
That must be a Guard guy, the age cutoff for AD is much lower.
How many good years of team time do you think that a 45 y/o has ahead of him? Add a year or two to that to complete the SFQC, BTW.
I have lived through SF leadership which was relatively late in their careers in arriving on teams. It was not a positive experience.
The team is only as fast or as strong as its weakest link, and I see a lot of potential problems with a brand new 46 y/o SF soldier. He may put the rest of his team in jeopardy for his own agenda.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
D9 (RIP)
06-08-2005, 20:55
That must be a Guard guy, the age cutoff for AD is much lower.
How many good years of team time do you think that a 45 y/o has ahead of him? Add a year or two to that to complete the SFQC, BTW.
I have lived through SF leadership which was relatively late in their careers in arriving on teams. It was not a positive experience.
The team is only as fast or as strong as its weakest link, and I see a lot of potential problems with a brand new 46 y/o SF soldier. He may put the rest of his team in jeopardy for his own agenda.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
It is a guard guy, Sir, and personally I completely agree with you. Just making the observation that there are some old guys in the course. In general, the older guys are from the guard. The oldest AD guys I know are in their late 30's, and they are E6s or E7s already with good, real-world experience.
NousDefionsDoc
06-09-2005, 20:55
Team Sgt: Thanks again for the reply. By "reasonable shape" I meant to say is some one healthy and with out a lot of physical limitations or chronic medical problems.
This is why I am curious as to the age of the oldest SF candidate.
Thanks again Team Sgt
LOL - "reasonable shape" to the TS is smoking the 17-24 y/o PT test after a 12-mile hump in under 2 hours.
"reasonable shape" ROTFLMAO
Pete Than you for posting in. I hate the regular Army. Im a medic in the National Guard. Im a paramedic in the civilian world and I am with out any challenges any more. I feel the calling to SF. I have over the years read, researched, and talked to anyone in SF. I should have been an 18-D years ago. I dont want to die with regrets. There is no me set in my ways (mentality). Im also attracted to SF because they are not like the rest of the Army. There will be no issues of that sort
Thanks again. good to hear form you
somedic
SOMEDIC-I'm a former Navy corpsman, 32 y.o., and just signed up the 2/19th SFG WVARNG in May to get on their training team to prep for selection......and I did it for exactly the reason you mentioned.....I didn't want to have any regrets later on. If this is what you really want, don't let anything hold you back. My wife has already said a couple of days ago that she hasn't seen me smile this much in a long time. Once I made the commitment to follow through, I've never been happier. Best wishes to you on whatever you decide!
Croaker
Firebeef
06-14-2005, 19:31
somedic: I was 35 when I first reported for duty with ODA 041. There is a long and convoluted story why this came about so late in life and in my career (for a few beers I will gladly recount it all to you). I have no regrets. I'm glad I did it, when I did it. The old saying : "better late than never" is true. Sure, I was scrutinized more than the 20 somethings showing up, but like in any unit...work hard, train hard and keep your mouth shut until you know what the hell is going on, and you will fit in. I actually ended up being a Team SGT and taking a team (successfully) into Bosnia. The real killer was....after years of having Ranger school used as a carrot by conventional units, I finally completed Ranger class 6-96. I was 38, and the oldest guy in the class. It sucked...but I'm pretty sure Ranger school sucks when you're 18 too! Hang in there brother...if you don't reach for the stars, you'll always be an earthpig!
De Oppresso Liber
I know of one idividual in my class that I have been going through with who is 42, the sad part is he can outrun a good 80% of the young guys. I'll be damned if I ever let him beat me though. :p
NousDefionsDoc
06-15-2005, 05:31
I'll be damned if I ever let him beat me though.
Then he already has...
haztacmedic
06-15-2005, 09:01
Fire Beef: Thanks for the support and motivational message. Ive already started testing my self. I just did the APFT with another guard buddy and Im waiting till noon to start a 5-mile ruck march with 50+/- lbs in the noon day heat!
Thanks again.
Firebeef
06-15-2005, 09:08
Molim!!
lol thats serbo for yer welkum! wouldn't mind a good hard ruck this afternoon, would rather take ya up the mountains...but yeah training in the noon day heat, as much as it sucks is a good idea. stay hydrated. Don't overdo the weight, regardless of how good shape you're in, your knees are still 38, 50-60 pounds is the most I would recommend. Believe me, once you're in the Q course, and on a team you'll have plenty of opportunities to carry a ludicrously heavy ruck. Train hard. Train smart. Never ever quit
haztacmedic
06-15-2005, 14:12
Yep this after noons ruck march was a real testical dragger. Some people I met along the way looked at me like I was an idiot. It felt good to be able to complete the movement though. Thanks again.
haztacmedic
06-20-2005, 12:31
Thanks again for those of you posting in with encouragement. Ive begun in the last four months a serious PT improvement program. Ive recently started ruck marching and I love it! I have a five mile dirt road with creeks to cross and lots of snakes to avoid. It is great! Im only using 45-50lbs three times a week for now.
Im actually having fun even though it is wearing my medic a** out.!!!
Thanks again for those of you posting in with encouragement. Ive begun in the last four months a serious PT improvement program. Ive recently started ruck marching and I love it! I have a five mile dirt road with creeks to cross and lots of snakes to avoid. It is great! Im only using 45-50lbs three times a week for now.
Im actually having fun even though it is wearing my medic a** out.!!!
Good going there!
Keep in mind what everybody 'round here is saying about the weight though, no need to go beyond 50 lbs.
Martin
Warrior-Mentor
06-20-2005, 15:42
My room mate while I was in the SFQC went through SFAS at 42. He was National Guard and worked in San Fran as a Fireman for his full time job. Wasn't in killer shape, but did his share of PT ...could ruck all day long and just refused to quit. It's a mindset.
haztacmedic
06-20-2005, 17:35
Warrior-Mentor: It is an absolute thrill to have you post in on this topic. I have your book and have read it and referenced it many times in the last month.
Thank you for your work sir.
somedic
Thank you all for posting on this topic , you have no idea how grateful I am am to get solid information on this specific topic without a lot of chest thumping. This is very inspiring and motivating I have been doubting myself and wondering if I would even have a chance or if I was just fooling myself into believing that I could make the muster with a bunch of young bucks. Thanks to your post I believe I can at 37. I will be going to meps on the 1st of July and attempt to get a slot for 97b I hope that will allow me to get into the 18X field. Will determine that at meps. Again thank you all for contributing to this thread.
Take care Frank :D
Sacamuelas
06-20-2005, 20:27
Either way Frank.. Good Luck. You will be serving your country no matter what and that counts. :cool:
no matter what and that counts. Yes sir, you are right but there is a deep desire to do this and its been there for years and it's getting stronger the older I get. This will be my second time to serve my country I hope all goes well at MEPS and I am given that opportunity. I have a force Protection and PSD contract in the works, if they do not materialize by the first of July it is 100% Army, obviously if the contracts come to bear I have to take them just because of the money. I have several irons in the fire but deep down I am hoping for the Army. About 1 year after I got out of the Navy I missed it, I should have never gotten out. I won't bore you guys with this just thank you again for this encouraging thread..
Take care ,,, Frank. :D
I will be going to meps on the 1st of July and attempt to get a slot for 97b I hope that will allow me to get into the 18X field.
When I still thought I would get to do service in Sweden, I talked to TR about what would be the best choice. As a preparation for US service and possibly SF one day (one step at a time...), he recommended an infantry MOS, preferbly a tough one.
Reasons are experience in the field, better physically and attitude. No further differentiation possible.
Perhaps something to keep in mind. Good luck!
Frank, I'm a bit confused. Are you looking to enlist under the 18X program, where you are afforded an opportunity to try to enter SF training shortly after OSUT, or are you looking to enlist as a 97B, and try out for SF after you meet the time-in-grade requirements? Further, if your intention is the latter, why do you believe CI training will best prepare you for SF? Just curious as to your thought process.
First all I would like to point out I do not know what I am talking about. I do know that I am too old to directly enlist 18X, so the later is the best option I have. Honestly my recruiter is not to good with providing information and I have to do the research myself , which is best in the long run, he is a nice guy though. My problem is that I don't know what the jobs are and am running blind here, I know what an MP does, I know what Airborne, Ranger and SF is and thats where it stops. I was looking through the jobs and found 97b, that actually seems right up my alley, I am a computer, communications geek, fluent in an other language, know surveillance techniques, I am sure you get the point. So I figured go with something that is cool do my time and then try SF. I actually looked at being a scout but I was unable to find good info on that, I was unable to find any info on FO's forward observers. Now couple this with the desire to be in a small tight unit. Any info would be great if I re-up this is for retirement only have to finish up 11 years for my 20 and want to make it worthwhile and exciting. If anyone has any job suggestions please let me know..
Thanks..
Frank :D
P.S. I am also looking into CID, never got a call back from the SGM in charge, I called 3 times.. :confused:
aricbcool
06-21-2005, 23:10
Honestly my recruiter is not to good with providing information...
You're kidding! I've never had that problem before. :rolleyes:
Have you seen the cav scout MOS?
http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=39
--Aric
First all I would like to point out I do not know what I am talking about.
decision time...my $0.02...if you want to go SF, i would advise getting in a related MOS...11B/C, 12B, 91B, 05B...i was a 12B in my pre-SF life and found the work agreeable...
an observation, take it for what it's worth...you seem hung up on cop-type stuff...that isn't really what SF is all about...if you wish to pursue a military career in CI/CID or whatever, go for it...your service will be appreciated by all here...nothing wrong with going down that path, whatsoever...
another opinion of mine...i had a battalion commander who was an MP while i was finishing up my career in PSYOP...diametrically opposed personalities...MPs enforce order, SF (at least me) try to find away to work around the existing order in denied territory...working toward the same goal, for the same country from entirely different perspectives...
this question isn't meant to insult as much as it is meant to stimulate your thought process...do you really have any idea what Special Forces units do in an operational environment? really? it's not so much about kicking down doors as it is building rapport...
once again, my opinion, worth every penny you paid for it...good luck...
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 10:30
I recommend that you find a Guard Group to drill with and have them send you.
If you make it, you can apply for AD if you wish to, and almost certainly get it.
The route you are taking (or that you are being steered into), is not direct and you will be several more years getting to SF that way, if at all.
TR
Thanks lksteve an unbiased third party view helps clear things up, you do have a point I keep tryin to get away from the cop stuff but it seems to be in my person. Thank you for your opinions they are welcomed. Reaper why do you recommend a guard unit , and I do not understand the process of guard units how can I go SF from there? If you do not have the time thats cool will look it up. :munchin
Frank,
I don't know about what the age limit is for 18X, but if there is one, see if you can get a waiver. This may take some research and a lot of effort. It would be worth it if that is what you want. There are lots of things that are waiverable. Definitely call an SF recruiter.
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 13:03
Thanks lksteve an unbiased third party view helps clear things up, you do have a point I keep tryin to get away from the cop stuff but it seems to be in my person. Thank you for your opinions they are welcomed. Reaper why do you recommend a guard unit , and I do not understand the process of guard units how can I go SF from there? If you do not have the time thats cool will look it up. :munchin
Easier just to do some searching here or googling around. We have explained this before. If you are serious as you claim to be, some time looking for info should not be an imposition.
Guard can get you to the SFQC in 12 months or so, if you do your part. If you fail, you are only in the Guard for weekends and deployments.
On AD, you will likely be 40 or older before you get to the SFQC and if you fail, you will be in it for the duration of your enlistment, doing a job that you may not want.
TR
FrankS,
I'll re-enforce what lksteve posted. Any intel MOS is not going to give you a good baseline to work with. The work is not closely related. I was an intel analyst in an infantry battalion, I can tell horror stories if necessary (PM me with what questions you have if you'd like).
I killed my daily work and decided to take up my spare time in the gym and strap hanging with the grunts. I learned a great deal by doing so. Since most of the army doesn't function like this (25th ID had little to do before 9-11) you'll find yourself hugging a desk and not humping a ruck. I was fortunate since I fit in with most of the infantrymen. I lived amongst them and earned their respect because I didn't act like an intel geek.
To effectively know how the enemy is emplaced and will act in the battlefield environment is not much different than what your own troops will do. Terrain, weather, and good ole' Murphy level the playing field a bit.
CI work is not for the faint of heart. It requires analytical abilities, instincts and a damn good bit of resolve. You have to be able to deal with a lot of BS and be 100% commited to the job. You can work with the SOF community as a CI guy but you'll have to punch tickets and have a good head on your shoulders to get that gig. Not everyone is cut out to support that part of the community.
There are skills that cross over from the CI field to SF, but bear in mind these skills are ones that you may have and further develop with training and can be used in any job function. Commonalities that exist in both that are highly desirable:
People skills: SF troops display these qualities everyday. Just look at the pics from the A-stan that have SF troops giving medicine and providing comfort to host nation people. CI people have to have this for many reasons, obvious no need to get specific.
Strong internal drive: SF troops are notorious for their ability to operate on minimal guidance and do the right things in the absence of orders. As a CI person the same applies.
There are a few more, but to spare the masses I'll close this damn post. Hopefully you get what you desire and do great things. Be 100% committed to whatever endeavor you embark on and don't get upset if things don't turn out the way you want. Not taking the chance is a guaranteed failure. Your willingness to continue to serve this nation in any capacity is commendable and should you choose to commit again I'd be proud to stand on a distant battlefield with ya' :lifter
I sincerly appreciate all the effort that has gone into the response to this post, I guess I am kinda like a kid in a toy store, I just need to settle on the toy that suits me the best not the one I can't afford. Thats where your contributions to this thread are priceless to me. The one thing I do know is I will keep you guys updated no matter what happens. I found a pretty good job description with a video about 97b, man am I glad I found that. That is so not me, I would have been misreable, so thats out the window. I also spoke with a lady from CID today , that actually sounds more up my alley I have to be an MP to apply so will see what happens with that. This is kinda like going shopping with your ol lady, never know what you are coming home with. If any of you know anything about CID I would appreciate a PM or post, I would imagine it's kinda like a detective division with a P.D. ?
Off to call a SF recruiter..
Thanks..
P.S. just to give you guys an Idea when I joined the NAVY I told the recruiter I wanted to sail the sea's and have a girl in every port, I ended up humpin bombs, so this time I need to do it right LOLOL.
Just kidding the best years of my life were in the navy..
Found this site SF Recruiting (http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/sfas/) and spoke with a recruiter. sounds like a good deal he said what ever I do to get Airborne gauranteed. He said to get assigned to Bragg N.C. I would be able to attend selection immediately. :D
Jack Moroney (RIP)
06-22-2005, 14:13
I sincerly appreciate all the effort that has gone into the response to this post, I guess I am kinda like a kid in a toy store, I just need to settle on the toy that suits me the best not the one I can't afford. .
No offense, but you sound more like a ping-pong ball in a hurricane. If I might just make a suggestion, set a goal and work to achieve it. You have explored more career fields in this thread than my grandkids who want to be firemen, if they can't be policemen, if they can't be trash haulers, if they can't be whatever. Take an assessment of your life, where you want to go, your attributes and weaknesses, and the requisite qualifications and YOU make the decision. There is no one here that can do that for you.
Yep , you are right. Thanks. The ping pong ball is a good analogy LOL.
Yah dass mach is schon schnell nur noch ein par tagen bis zum ersten July dann werden wier sehen wass passiert..
Danke Noch mal..
I should change my username to ping pong it sounds pretty cool. I just found what will work for me (21st Military Police Company (Airborne)) Fort Bragg. 9 days and counting to meps, have to gain 1/2 inch in my neck and lose 1" on my waist any suggestions would be welcomed. Looks like it is the Army for me I doubt seriously a contract will come through in the next 9 days. Thanks again guys for your suggestions. I was looking at the pass ratio according to the pft scores, I think being an MP for a year or so I can get into top physical condition to make sure I succeed, if I did it now I would just be sucking wind I don't want to waste the Army or the instructors time.
Ping Pong out.. :D
Peregrino
06-22-2005, 21:26
I should change my username to ping pong it sounds pretty cool. I just found what will work for me (21st Military Police Company (Airborne)) Fort Bragg. 9 days and counting to meps, have to gain 1/2 inch in my neck and lose 1" on my waist any suggestions would be welcomed. Looks like it is the Army for me I doubt seriously a contract will come through in the next 9 days. Thanks again guys for your suggestions. I was looking at the pass ratio according to the pft scores, I think being an MP for a year or so I can get into top physical condition to make sure I succeed, if I did it now I would just be sucking wind I don't want to waste the Army or the instructors time.
Ping Pong out.. :D
Ping Pong is not a complimentary nickname. You made your bed - now sleep well. In the interim while you're learning focus and discipline you'd better spend your time gaining proficiency on convoy ops and IA drills with various crew-served weapons. Oh - don't forget motor stables on up-armored Hummers. Combat skills for the sandbox, you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty. You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years. Peregrino
Ping Pong is not a complimentary nickname. You made your bed - now sleep well. In the interim while you're learning focus and discipline you'd better spend your time gaining proficiency on convoy ops and IA drills with various crew-served weapons. Oh - don't forget motor stables on up-armored Hummers. Combat skills for the sandbox, you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty. You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years. Peregrino
Thanks Peregrino, thats fine I have a lot to learn trust me I realize that. Once I have the basics down then I can move on, thats why I would feel a bit more comfortable being in the Army a while before I attempt SF . I dont know man Ping Pong aint bad I am sure you know earning your nickname reflects the person, nothing wrong with being a bit off or out of the norm.you're going to need them. And the guys you will be there with deserve your undivided attention/loyalty. I know you don't know me but this will not be an issue, I am not a POS that throws grenades into a tent unless the tents belong to insurgents.You just put your SF daydreams on hold for years. This is what I would prefer to do, thanks for re-enforcing that. Take care
Ping Pong :eek:
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 22:08
I have to agree with Peregrino.
If you are having trouble getting in shape just to join, then SF is a pipedream for you.
Don't count on getting in shape as an MP. You will get some combat time though.
TR
If you are having trouble getting in shape just to join, I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.
Thanks.. :D
The Reaper
06-22-2005, 22:58
I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.
Thanks.. :D
Because I saw every SFAS class for the past four years.
I do not know you, but I have seen a hundred like you.
People who are not really sure that they want it, but who show up thinking that they are in good shape for their age group. People too lazy to do the research, much less the prep required. People who sign any contract offered, thinking that the Army will give them what they need to get ready for SF. Consider this, available in USAREC Pam 601-25 and elsewhere on this very site. Note that there is no measurement for a 200 APFT score, even in the 17-21 y/o group, which will be your standard. You will need a lot more than 200 to stay for the rest of the course:
"The Army Research Institute (ARI) has been able to closely correlate performance on the APFT and a 4-mile rucksack march with success in the SFAS Course. ARI evaluated the cumulative APFT score (17 to 21 age group standard) with the percent of candidates who started the SFAS Course and who passed the course. The average PT score for the SFAS Course graduates is 250. The average APFT results are depicted below.
APFT Score Percent Passing Course
206-225 31
226-250 42
251-275 57
276 or higher 78
The higher the APFT score, the better the percent that passed the course. You need to be in top physical condition and you should do well in the SFAS Course.
ARI evaluated the ability of SFAS students to perform a 4-mile ruckmarch in BDU, boots, M-16, load bearing equipment, and a 45-pound rucksack. The overall average 4-mile ruckmarch time for graduates is 61 minutes. The average results are depicted below:
Ruckmarch Time (Minutes) Percent Passing Course
54 and less 81
55-64 63
65-74 34
75-84 10
The less time to complete a 4-mile ruckmarch, the better the percent who passed the course. The soldiers who prepare for SFAS through PT should succeed at the SFAS Course."
Here is a reality check, based on my experience after doing this SF job for 21 years. Take it for what you will.
MPs are busy people, not a lot of time for PT, unless you make the time on your off-duty time. People who are deployed don't have a lot of time for PT, they are busy trying to stay alive.
You are already at the upper end of the age range. You will not bounce back the next day like the kids will. You may have injuries already that will be aggrevated. You will be injured more easily, and recover more slowly.
You do not strike me as really knowing that SF is what you want, your burning desire, your raison d'etre, and that is what is really going to keep you from making it.
Frankly, you are pretty old, not in good shape, and not likely to get to SFAS with the desire to make it. You are looking for reassurance now on this site. No one from here will be out on the STAR helping you walk mile after mile but you. No one will be pushing you on the run to move out faster but you. No one can keep your feet moving when you are burned out but you. The instructors will not try. They are there to assess and select, not motivate. And you really want to be a CID agent, remember?
I went to Camp Mackall 21 years ago at age 26 with a PT score of 300 and four years as a Light Infantryman and it still kicked my ass. That was before SFAS, which IMHO, is much harder than it was in my day.
I am sure that you are a great person with good intentions. Unfortunately, I do not think that you have what we are looking for, and would be better off staying home. If you really want to try it, go for it. Just don't expect any artificial optimism and support from me. You wanted a qualified opinion, I just gave you mine, honestly, and upfront.
Good luck.
TR
haztacmedic
06-23-2005, 07:56
Since I started this whole thing, I will try to refocus on my original purpose for this thread. Ive given myself six months to get in shape and begin to sort out all the details on moving units. I still work 24hours on and 48 off. During my off days I run, ruck, and do practice APFTs.
Reaper: Your oppinion please. I have worked it out with the State's NCO school to go out and do land naviagtion tests with the PLDC students at any time I want. Will this be helpful?
I am entering a local 5k race just to see how I do. I have bought a copy of the Ranger hand book to start getting familiar with SUT and TLP.
If I get to SFAS I know with absoulte clarity that I want to be no less that a 18-D
and nothing else will be acceptable.
somedic
Peregrino
06-23-2005, 08:37
I know you don't know me but this will not be an issue. Ping Pong
You missed the point. The point is people who go to a unit planning on using it as a stepping stone to further their own ambitions lack the loyalty and focus required to be a team player. Nobody likes or trusts individuals, especially when the bullets are flying. They tend to get other people killed or wounded for selfish reasons. If you have decided to be an MP - be the best MP possible. In a few years after a 100% commitment to whatever job you have, if you still want to move on to something else, that's a different story. In the meantime consider this - ask around (QUIETLY - try PMs) and get a feel for how other QPs/leaders felt about (and treated) users who showed up to "check the block" on their way to achieving "self actualization". This "Army of One" crap chaps my "cornflakes". End Lecture - I hope you payed atention, it'll save you (and more importantly the people who will be depending on you) a lot of grief. Peregrino
Team Sergeant
06-23-2005, 08:47
I am in shape to join at 200 pft for my age group , I am 2% over on the bf at 26% and 215 lbs for 72".
Why is it a pipe dream? I am not counting on anyone to get me into shape except me. Why would I not get into shape as an MP are they resatricted from PT? I am asking because I don't know, not to doubt what you are saying. I have been a donut eating beer drinking machine, I went from 1/4 mile and passing out to 5+ miles and 7:26 minute miles in 3 months in addition to situps and pushups. I know I can do this it's just everything in between I am unsure of.
Thanks.. :D
A word of advice from a retired Special Forces Master Sergeant:
If you cannot easily do a 300, on the 17-21 scale, on the Army PT test than Army Special Forces is not for you. ( I don't care what age you are...)
Bottom line, if you are contemplating Special Forces as a career and are having problems getting your ass off the couch to keep in great shape, don’t waste your time (or ours).
Special Forces is not for those that “think they can”. While that may be a great attitude for 4-6 year old kindergarten kids, it will not work in our world. If you are "unsure" at the age of 37 Special Forces is not for you.
A Special Forces soldier “knows he can” and will die rather than quit in order to accomplish his mission.
Team Sergeant
Thats what I was looking for the non bullshit sugar coated answers, Thank you. Next friday I am on my way to meps will try to get MP with Airborne I see there is a 21 MP battalion in Bragg. I just got through with 3 miles in 23:54 working on it. Thanks again for kicking me in the head and giving me a reality check. I will be better informed after I get in. screw it maybe it's a midlife crisis and I will just go out and buy me a miata LOLOL :D
Later,,, Frank
The Reaper
06-23-2005, 09:51
Since I started this whole thing, I will try to refocus on my original purpose for this thread. Ive given myself six months to get in shape and begin to sort out all the details on moving units. I still work 24hours on and 48 off. During my off days I run, ruck, and do practice APFTs.
Reaper: Your oppinion please. I have worked it out with the State's NCO school to go out and do land naviagtion tests with the PLDC students at any time I want. Will this be helpful?
I am entering a local 5k race just to see how I do. I have bought a copy of the Ranger hand book to start getting familiar with SUT and TLP.
If I get to SFAS I know with absoulte clarity that I want to be no less that a 18-D
and nothing else will be acceptable.
somedic
You need to be honest with yourself in assessing your capabilities and limitations. If you fail at SFAS, the rest of the SFQC does not matter.
We will teach you land nav, all you have to do is be comfortable in the woods. If you can get some experience ahead of time, that is fine, but don't neglect your PT and rucking for it. I suspect that you will find very short legs being run at PLDC, which is only an intro to land nav.
The Ranger Handbook is helpful, but again, only if you make it through SFAS. Do not get ahead of yourself or lose focus on the 25 meter target. Lots of posters on this board have worried about advanced issues, and never made it through SFAS.
BTW, you don't pick your MOS, the Army does. Assuming that you made it through SFAS and were selected, which is a pretty big assumption, if they gave you 18B, would you quit?
TR
In addition to the Team Sergeant's comments on APFT performance, a 300 overall on the 17-21 scale is an important indicator, but if you're really pushing yourself to see what you can do, try to max push-ups and sit-ups in the 27-31 age scale, and max the run in the 17-21 age scale. Challenge yourself, always.
haztacmedic
06-23-2005, 13:22
Reaper: Thanks for the reply. You are correct on the PLDC land nav course. I think the longest leg is between 500-800 meters. I read the ranger hand book mostly for familiarization and because its interesting to me. I will not let PLDC land nav get in the way of rucking and PT.
With my back ground as a medic, I would really hope to be a 18-D. If thats not an option I would take any MOS assignment with honor.
Razor: Thanks for your input. I challenge myself daily and I have been pushing beyond what I thought my limits are....To be honest Im enjoying this whole thing.
aricbcool
06-23-2005, 17:18
In addition to the Team Sergeant's comments on APFT performance, a 300 overall on the 17-21 scale is an important indicator, but if you're really pushing yourself to see what you can do, try to max push-ups and sit-ups in the 27-31 age scale, and max the run in the 17-21 age scale. Challenge yourself, always.
I was looking at the scores yesterday and noticed the difference in pushups/situps too.
The scores Razor suggests above work out to:
Pushups: 77
Situps: 82
Run Time: 13:00 minutes
Also, I found a couple of PFT calculators on the net.
See here:
http://www.hooah4health.com/4You/apft.htm
http://www.apft.net/APFTscorealculator.html
Hope that helps.
--Aric
The Reaper
06-23-2005, 18:16
I was looking at the scores yesterday and noticed the difference in pushups/situps too.
The scores Razor suggests above work out to:
Pushups: 77
Situps: 82
Run Time: 13:00 minutes
Also, I found a couple of PFT calculators on the net.
See here:
http://www.hooah4health.com/4You/apft.htm
http://www.apft.net/APFTscorealculator.html
Hope that helps.
--Aric
A lot of people perform reps that are not counted.
60 good ones are better than 100 with half not counted.
TR
aricbcool
06-23-2005, 18:26
Good advice, Sir.
I will keep it in mind.
--Aric
http://www.hooah4health.com/4You/APFT_Push-up_Scoring_0299.pdf
This chart shows that you need more to score in my age group 37-41 than you do for the 17-21 does that seem right?
This chart shows that you need more to score in my age group 37-41 than you do for the 17-21 does that seem right?gettin' old ain't for sissies...
Hooah! gettin' old ain't for sissies... I found my new signature, lolol ;)
Hooah! I found my new signature, lolol you're just a pup...hell, when i was your age...hell, when was i your age...? :confused:
aricbcool
06-23-2005, 20:45
you're just a pup...hell, when i was your age...hell, when was i your age...? :confused:
LOL Good one. I needed that. :D
don't laugh too hard...you're right behind me... :D
Warrior-Mentor
06-23-2005, 22:40
Just saw age analysis from the Special Ops Recruiting Company Commander today. It was age vs grad at SFAS...
Showed 18 yr olds had lowest, with it steadily improving to age 22, where it plateau'd to age 28, then a slight drop..and an increase to age 32. The chart stopped at age 32.
The increases over age 28 are somewhat artificial as it was a percentage and there only 1-2 guys that age, but they made it...
Good news for the old guys.
Old guys at 28? :confused: LOL geez this is getting worse everytime I log in. Still talking to the recruiter waiting for a prior service bonus to come up I missed the last one by two weeks. Looks like I also just missed out on a good FPO contract, this is not my month. :mad:
Warrior-Mentor
07-07-2005, 17:26
My roommate in the SFQC made it through SFAS at 42... Just mind over matter.
He could ruck all day long...was built like a bear and as long as they fed the bear, he kept walking... :lifter
Ok Gentlemen, here's is my plan of action. The contract that I have been hoping for has not materialized so I am comitting myself to the US Army, I dont want to come off as a prick but I don't like being told that I am living a pipe dream. I am going into 19D for one year and then going SF. I have scored pretty good on the asvab to get just about any job I want, the only thing standing in my way is myself at this point. I carefully evaluated the PT portion and if I step it up a bit I can achieve the 300 for age 17-21 within the next year, which puts everything into perspective. I have to work twice as hard as a 20 year old, but I want this twice as bad as a 21 year old. I appreciate all the guidance and advice provided by the best soldiers in the world. I wish you all the best and from an old salt I appreciate what you guys are doing and have done for me and mine.
Thanks , Frank
I will be back as time allows.
Warrior-Mentor
07-09-2005, 23:27
Congrats and Best of luck.
Would have encouraged you to go 11X if you couldn't get 18X. 19D is not a bad alternative...I worked with a bunch of them while I was an LT with 3rd Armored Cav...pretty good group....did well in the field.
Just curious what made you pick that over 11B?
When do you ship?
JM
Don't know, just thought it sounded cool and it would still give me the opportunities I am looking for, and honestly I have no fricken clue as to which one is better or which one to choose. I am going to try and get Airborne on my contract thats one thing I do know, the rest I will just have to see and what ever happens happens dont really care as long as I get to where I want to be. I need to re-contact my recruiter will probly go to meps on the 14 or 15 of this month. Will try to ship out ASAP tired of sitting on my arsh missing all the excitement. I dont know if I told you guys this but I will be going to the WTC Warrior Transition Course, should be interesting I think it's in Tejas now. I heard they give colored stress cards now adays, that outta be fun :D Oh BTW MW I looked at your BIO, the real deal, are you retired?
The Reaper
07-10-2005, 07:29
I am going into 19D for one year and then going SF.
Thanks , Frank
This is not going to happen. You will do your initial training, join your unit, deploy to Iraq, and then, maybe after 24 months in service, you will attend SFAS. If you are selected, figure another 6-12 months before you are PCSed to the SFQC.
Just trying to give you a more realistic assessment.
TR
Thanks appreciate the heads up. Thats fine that will give me another year to PT! If it's easy it's not worth doing.. Thank you sir.
Warrior-Mentor
07-10-2005, 21:33
I am going to try and get Airborne on my contract thats one thing I do know, Oh BTW MW I looked at your BIO, the real deal, are you retired?
19D is a Cav Scout...will they give you airborne? This MOS is usually works hand in hand with 19K (Tankers)...
Bottomline, if you want airborne, make sure you see it in writing.
Who's MW?
Who's MW?i suspect that's WM...old age and dyslexia...what a combo... :D
Thats ok, all I know is the end result. If I have to take 11b to get Airborne than so be it, these steps are just a neccessary incovienience to get to where I want to be. I am meeting with the recruiter tommorow. I guess we are making sure that everything is completed that we need to go to MEPS. I am hoping by the end of this week i will have a definate answer.
Frank :D
WTF That aint right LOLOL i suspect that's WM...old age and dyslexia...what a combo... Yes I meant MW! :D
Surgicalcric
07-12-2005, 06:07
... Yes I meant MW! :D
You got it backwards again FrankS. It is WM.
Crip
Oy you funny F***er I always thought WM stood for Woman Marine now I find out it stands for Warrior Mentor what the hell.. Well saw the recruiter today scheduled for the 22nd of this month to go to meps. Thanks for the LL WM and the link info..
Take Care , Frank.. :lifter
Warrior-Mentor
07-12-2005, 19:57
Oy you funny F***er I always thought WM stood for Woman Marine now I find out it stands for Warrior Mentor what the hell.. Well saw the recruiter today scheduled for the 22nd of this month to go to meps. Thanks for the LL WM and the link info..
Take Care , Frank.. :lifter
Thanks Frank. I give you coaching & advice ... and you denigrate me to a woman marine...nice. I see how it is... :cool:
and you denigrate me to a woman marine...nice. I see how it is... no good deed goes unpunished around here... :D
Thanks Frank. I give you coaching & advice ... and you denigrate me to a woman marine...nice. I see how it is..
:D I know that aint right, I am going to have to withhold my identity from you now so I don't get smoked when I am in. LOLOL ;)
no good deed goes unpunished around here... :rolleyes:
Warrior-Mentor
07-13-2005, 23:44
:D I know that aint right, I am going to have to withhold my identity from you now so I don't get smoked when I am in. LOLOL
Too late Frank.
Besides, you'll get smoked anyway. :boohoo
Who says I don't have a sense of humor? :D
Lets see when I was in SERE school they said Name, Rank, and Social for identification, and tid bits of info to appease the interrogator and keep you alive.
Okay WM my real name is Mickey Mantel and I am from New York. :D
Trust me I can appreciate a good sense of humor, I just prefer not to die in my sleep if I offend anyone here. :D
Okay WM my real name is Mickey Mantel and I am from New York. Mickey Mantle was from Oklahoma and he's been dead six or seven years...you have to do better than that...
Dammit man I am turning into a soup sandwich. I do want to point out that " I did not have sex with that women". Thats all right I could not get my story straight in SERE school either so I got to spend some extra time in Hardcell interrogation LOLOL. I miss it, I used to pay for that shit like that and there I got it for free. :D
alphamale
07-17-2005, 00:18
FrankS you are not allowed to pick on Warrior-Mentor.
He is a QP who seems to be actually kind of nice and forthcoming.
As opposed to the Many Mean and Gruff ones whom I always have to threaten with shin kicks repeatedly before they succumb to my will and my micro-biceps. :lifter
:)
FrontSight
FrankS you are not allowed to pick on Warrior-Mentor.
He is a QP who seems to be actually kind of nice and forthcoming.
As opposed to the Many Mean and Gruff ones whom I always have to threaten with shin kicks repeatedly before they succumb to my will and my micro-biceps. :lifter
:)
FrontSight
FS can pop up in the damndest places...........
I'm gonna try to post something here as soon as I stop laughing. Can't see the keys.
Ok, just a minute.
LOL, never mind. It's not working. But at least she didn't mention the threats with her Toys R Us whip. ;)
The Reaper
07-17-2005, 07:19
FrankS you are not allowed to pick on Warrior-Mentor.
He is a QP who seems to be actually kind of nice and forthcoming.
FrontSight
He is young and does not yet know you as well as we do.
TR
He is young and does not yet know you as well as we do.neither one of them know when to put down the shovel, though... :munchin
I would have respnded earlier but I was busy http://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/military_private_pushups_lg_clr.gif
Plus I am trying to find a place to put my shovel LOL :D
Warrior-Mentor
07-18-2005, 22:27
Frank,
Do you know what to do when you find yourself in a hole?
Stop digging.
Hide from the machine gun fire.
Except that doesn't work, because just when you think you're safe, you realize that you are staring at the FRONT TOWARDS ENEMY side of claymore, prepositioned in the deadspace long before you ever knew you were in an ambush.
Food for thought as the ball bearings rip through your head. :D
Call it a cyber bitch slap!
Food for thought as the ball bearings rip through your head. Now that is brutal, are you sure you did not mean you can hear the ball bearings rattling in my head? Hey I just figured out your avatar and location Cool stuff man. Were you on the tv show? I just got through with a bunch of thesehttp://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/military_private_jumping_jacks_lg_clr.gif , I could really use some baby back, baby back , baby back ribs... :D
2 days and counting to MEPS.
Warrior-Mentor
07-19-2005, 12:47
That's great. Keep going until I get tired. :munchin
Best of luck as you ship.
JM
Thank you sir, you never answered me, were you on the TV show HALO Freefall for the military channel? :Dhttp://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/para_fall.gif
I could really use some baby back, baby back , baby back ribs...
2 days and counting to MEPS.nope...you can't use baby back ribs...a salad, some water and a few more push-ups...
Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2005, 13:41
Thank you sir, you never answered me, were you on the TV show HALO Freefall for the military channel? :Dhttp://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/para_fall.gif
Just TiVo'd that and was wondering the same thing. Preview made it look like it was filmed at Bragg, though . . . :munchin
Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2005, 13:42
Whoa, who turned on the IMG code?! :munchin
Thank you sir, you never answered me, were you on the TV show HALO Freefall for the military channel? he's not tired yet...keep doing push-ups... :munchin
You have to be a really smart lawyer to figure out the images. Having been a cop for so long I could not resist. Being a cop and picking on attorney's is kinda like a member of a legitimate military branch picking on the Air Farce. :D http://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/military-pullups.gif
The Reaper
07-19-2005, 21:58
Thank you sir, you never answered me, were you on the TV show HALO Freefall for the military channel? :Dhttp://www.secureaspects.com/forum/downloads/images/para_fall.gif
That was his predecessor, why do you ask?
Part was taped at Bragg and part at YPG. You can tell by the desert, if you missed the narration.
TR
Roguish Lawyer
07-19-2005, 22:19
Part was taped at Bragg and part at YPG. You can tell by the desert, if you missed the narration.
Haven't watched it yet. Two-part show too.
Warrior-Mentor
07-19-2005, 22:33
Like TR said..."wasn't me."
Just curious, I would have tried to get him to sign the book if he was a movie star :D http://www.secureaspects.com/forum/uploads/forums/frenchvictory.jpg
Roguish Lawyer
07-20-2005, 04:45
Haven't watched it yet. Two-part show too.
Just watched part one and 1/2 of part two. It was a stupid question, since W-M has not concealed his identity.
But I believe we have another registered member who is now a celebrity. Although he hasn't posted much lately. :munchin
BTW, great program IMO. Those instructors really can fly!
Whoa, who turned on the IMG code?! :munchin
LOL it must be army buracracy around here- I asked for this 6 months or more ago.
Warrior-Mentor
07-20-2005, 11:43
because I'm not a "propeller head", what's an IMG Code?
Roguish Lawyer
07-20-2005, 12:16
because I'm not a "propeller head", what's an IMG Code?
It's how Frank posted the PT cartoon images. You link to an image on another website by putting the address between and . Instead of the link appearing in your post, the image will appear.
Click the thumbnail for a propeller head.
Warrior-Mentor
07-20-2005, 12:47
Here's the propeller head I was talking about:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/Assets/propellerhead.jpg
Roguish Lawyer
07-20-2005, 12:55
LOL
HEY LOOK The propeller head in the Cartoon is a Major, LOLOL :D
haztacmedic
07-20-2005, 19:00
Gosh! Im responsible for creating this monster of a subject!
Warrior-Mentor
07-21-2005, 12:45
There is a striking resemblance between RL's glasses and the Propeller head's glasses...
Who knew what an IMG Code was again?
Who knew what an IMG Code was again?i believe it was FrankS...
i didn't know RL wore glasses...the guy with propeller head reminds me of the B Team Commander i had in BT... :munchin
Warrior-Mentor
07-21-2005, 13:48
i believe it was FrankS...
i didn't know RL wore glasses...
Just going off the cool guy Oakleys in his avatar... :cool:
Roguish Lawyer
07-21-2005, 16:33
Oh yeah, you guys arrived after that famous thread . . .
Roguish Lawyer
07-22-2005, 10:13
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/22/army.recruiting.reut/index.html
Pentagon wants to raise age limit for recruits
Friday, July 22, 2005; Posted: 12:03 p.m. EDT (16:03 GMT)
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Faced with major recruiting problems sparked by troop deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon has asked Congress to raise the maximum age for U.S. military enlistees from 35 to 42 years old.
The request, sent to lawmakers this week, would apply to all active duty branches of the military services, said Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, Friday. But it is aimed chiefly at the active duty Army, which has fallen far short of recruiting goals this year, by adding millions of potential enlistees.
The Army has provided most of the 140,000 U.S. ground troops in Iraq and has also relied heavily on part-time soldiers from the National Guard and Reserve for year-long deployments there.
Krenke said the active duty Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, which are meeting their recruiting goals, were unlikely to change their current policy of declining to accept recruits older than 35.
The new proposal would not change the limit of 39 years old for those with previous military service who seek to enlist in the Army Reserves and National Guard.
The Army National Guard, struggling more than any other part of the U.S. military to sign up new troops amid the Iraq war, missed its ninth straight monthly recruiting goal in June.
The regular Army met its recruiting goal this month, but is still 14 percent behind its year-to-date recruiting target and is in danger of missing an annual recruiting goal for the first time since 1999. The Army Reserve is 21 percent behind its year-to-date goal and also in danger of falling short for the year.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-22-2005, 10:52
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/22/army.recruiting.reut/index.html
Pentagon wants to raise age limit for recruits
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Faced with major recruiting problems sparked by troop deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Pentagon has asked Congress to raise the maximum age for U.S. military enlistees from 35 to 42 years old.
.
Oh great! Now the Army will have to deal with folks that still are unsure about what they want to do with their lives at age 42.
The Reaper
07-22-2005, 16:47
And 60 year old E-6s who are not old enough for retirement.
Not to mention the increased medical expenses.
TR
Warrior-Mentor
07-22-2005, 17:40
Maybe they'll start issuing Depends Undergarments as an enlistment incentive...
generally, i don't think raising the enlistment age is a good idea...but Aaron Bank was 37 when he enlisted, and he did alright...
Just curious, I would have tried to get him to sign the book if he was a movie star :D http://www.secureaspects.com/forum/uploads/forums/frenchvictory.jpg
^^^LMFAO!!! :D
Ok the age thing rocks, maybe I will get a PT score of 300 when they adjusted for the increased age range. :D I have not made it to MEPs yet you guys arent gonna believe this crap. I was .53% over my body fat. At my age if I was already enlisted or non prior service I could be at 26% I measured in at 24.53% 206 lbs at 71", I should have taken a healthy crap and I would have been within limits but I was told to postpone it until Tuesday. Here comes the kicker I was invited to a job interview for UP Rail Road as a Signalman, the benefits are outrageous, the pay potential is 75k+,
and the retirement is one of the best out there, the interview is on Tuesday., hmmm decisions decisions..
I admit I knew what the img code is so I accept the propeller hat :D If I wasnt such a pencil neek geek I may have passed the BF already , LOLOL :)
Alright gotta go PT. Managed 24 minutes for 3 miles on Friday now to keep that pace for 5 miles and I will be good.
Take care all..
Frank :lifter
you guys arent gonna believe this crap. try us...standards are standards...half a percent, a quarter of a second...period...during SFQC, during one of the timed ruck marches, a guy was farting around with half a minute left...he sat down just by the finish line, when the NCOIC of the march started counting down the seconds, he tried to stand up, cramped up and wound up being a second or three over time and was recycled...a standard is a standard...is that so hard? you either make it or you fail to make it...
I was invited to a job interview for UP Rail Road as a Signalman every cloud has a silver lining...
Managed 24 minutes for 3 miles on Friday now to keep that pace for 5 miles and I will be good.what are you doing to insure that you can run 5 miles in 40 minutes? are you doing some over-distance...? doing some speed work...? good luck...keep pushing...
Ok the age thing rocks, maybe I will get a PT score of 300 when they adjusted for the increased age range. :D I have not made it to MEPs yet you guys arent gonna believe this crap. I was .53% over my body fat. At my age if I was already enlisted or non prior service I could be at 26% I measured in at 24.53% 206 lbs at 71", I should have taken a healthy crap and I would have been within limits but I was told to postpone it until Tuesday. Here comes the kicker I was invited to a job interview for UP Rail Road as a Signalman, the benefits are outrageous, the pay potential is 75k+,
and the retirement is one of the best out there, the interview is on Tuesday., hmmm decisions decisions..
I admit I knew what the img code is so I accept the propeller hat :D If I wasnt such a pencil neek geek I may have passed the BF already , LOLOL :)
Alright gotta go PT. Managed 24 minutes for 3 miles on Friday now to keep that pace for 5 miles and I will be good.
Take care all..
Frank :lifter
Becaue of your age, you don't have a lot of time left if you want to join the Army, especially for SF. The way I see it, you can always get a civilian job. You can't always do the Army job.
There's one standard for fitness, and that's "high." Stop thinking about having scores or weight adjusted for age. If you're older, you need to think and feel younger. You need to be able to go toe-to-toe with soldiers a lot younger than yourself. That's the only standard to fit into. You need to be able to pull your own weight and then some at all times. If you can do that, age will be merely a number and not a limiter.
At 24.53% fat and 206 lbs, you are carrying 50.5 lbs of fat on your frame. If you were deploying to Iraq or Afgahnistan, that would be a good thing, but for hard training, it's too fat.
Some runners in their 50's can run 6 miles in less than 36 minutes. 5 miles in 40 minutes is something every soldier should be able to do in their sleep at any age. For a 2 mile PT test, you should be at 13:00 or faster. It's only 2 miles right???
You really need to love PT if you want to be in elite units. It has to be one of your core values. Intense PT should be something you look forward to rather than something you have to do in order to pass.
My idea of hell is being in poor physical condition. No excuse for being in bad shape really, unless you are disabled or something. If you want to work at Wallmart, it doesn't really matter that much, but you want to join the military.
The way you train is very important to athletic success. The body gets stronger and faster by progressively overloading the heart, lungs, and muscles with more and more "work." Protracted recovery periods are mandatory, especially the older you are. This means that pushing when you are still recovering leads to overall performance DECREASES, not INCREASES, and makes injury more likely too. Recovery means eating, sleeping, and doing as little physical activity as possible.
Intensity is more important than endurance. Most people really don't understand this, even many athletes don't get it. Doing the same thing every day or several times a week quickly leads to performance plataeus, frustration, boredom, and stagnation. With proper training, you climb rungs in the fitness "ladder" on a regular basis. With a mediocre program, you reach a medicore level fairly quickly and that's as far as you're going. You could run 5 miles in 40 minutes everyday for 10 years and that's all the faster you're ever going to be.
For example, someone who can run 2 miles in 10 minutes would find running 5 miles in 40 minutes very easy, almost a joke. Conversely, a person who never ran faster than 5 miles in 40 minutes would be lucky to knock out one mile at a 5-min mile pace before heavy fatigue set in and they were forced to slow down dramatically and vomit along the roadside.
The PT trainees are exposed to is not for growth as much as for selecting, thinning, and weeding out the sick, frail, and weak. It doesn't mean that's the optimal way to develop fitness. Understand the difference.
If you train properly, you will arrive at training highly fit, well recovered physically, and mentally "fresh." If you beat yourself up without proper recovery, you will arrive at training with mediocre fitness, a tired body, and a mind that just wants to take a rest.
A body that is well trained and recovered can take weeks of abuse and
still perform at a very high level.
I got into this thread a little late, but it's nice to see I'm not the only 34 y/o going through a mid-life crisis. I'm waiting to ship for the Washington NG hoping for a shot at the 19th group. It's nice to see all the help and advice the QP's are willing to give. My recruiter who was an 18D with the 7th SFG said 11C would be a helpful MOS (hoping for 18B). Anyone have any thoughts on that verses 11B? I also see a few fellow firefighters and paramedics out there shooting for the same goal. It's nice to see some brothers with the same interests. Good luck to you all.
Thanks for the great PT information. I am doing hard intervals for two miles, I just need to crank it up a bit more, I was doing it wrong to begin with I was hitting it very hard everyday and actually decreasing my performance. I started to notice that if I actually waited a day or two between my runs and ate properly (not Stuffing) my times would increase by sometimes minutes. Today is one of my off days I walked 18 miles the other day at I would say a 3 to 5 mph clip trying to burn fat, from my reserach walking at a moderate pace will burn more fat than a pre determined run so I try to intermix the two with a 3 mile minimum interval run in the morning then a 9 to 14 mile walk during the day.
I am going for the rail road job tommorow morning and if I get it I am going to accept it. Then I will get my foot in the door for the bennies, money, and retirement. After a year of working out and being off of probation with the rail road I will join the guard (reserves) and try for straight up 18X. So that seems like the best plan so far. Then again if I dont get hired tommorow its to MEPS on Wednesday.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond to this, you guys have been great and are providing great direction for mid life crisis victims LOLOL :D
P.S. Is there a law about reserves and employers that barres the employer from laying you off or firing you if you are in the guard?
Ok the age thing rocks, maybe I will get a PT score of 300 when they adjusted for the increased age range.
I was kidding about this guys, just a little ha ha to go with the coffee. :D
Do a search for Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve, you'll find what you need. Good luck with your interview.
FrankS, you need to simplify your life...take one thing at a time...good luck...
FrankS, you need to simplify your life...take one thing at a time.
Amen Brother, when it rains it pours, trust me I like things simple and don't like this type of multi tasking, leads to mistakes. Hopefully things will resolve themselves after Tuesday. I just like evaluating my options from people who know. SENSEI means " the one who has gone before " this is the best person to ask for the straight skinny no BS and thats what I appreciate about you guys.
Thanks , Frank
Cobra 66
07-29-2005, 09:50
I have a very good friend that went through SFAS, then completed the Q course when he was around 45. He also got his scuba bubble when he was 49. Of course, I also think that he is a little hard headed for his own good...lol
RAT out
Well got back from meps last night and passed everything with flying colors except for the hearing part and the doctor was hesitant to disqualify me for the hearing but but did anyway. I am only 5 points over on several ranges with the highest one being a 45 which still meets the Army minimum standard. So I am sitting here today waiting on the results of a waiver from usarec. Meps certainly has changed since 1986 I remember getting a minimal physical, shots and put on a bus to bootcamp.
From doing the research I am pretty confident thet SF is out due to the hearing, who knows the Army might be out if I dont get this waiver. The whole thing makes no sense to be disqualified for for something this simple and irrelevant. I passed the hearing needs to be an airmarshal and that was based on hearing someone whisper in an aircraft in flight. Well enough of my soap box, will sit here by the phone waiting on the recruiters call. :rolleyes:
The Reaper
07-29-2005, 10:49
Well got back from meps last night and passed everything with flying colors except for the hearing part and the doctor was hesitant to disqualify me for the hearing but but did anyway. I am only 5 points over on several ranges with the highest one being a 45 which still meets the Army minimum standard. So I am sitting here today waiting on the results of a waiver from usarec. Meps certainly has changed since 1986 I remember getting a minimal physical, shots and put on a bus to bootcamp.
From doing the research I am pretty confident thet SF is out due to the hearing, who knows the Army might be out if I dont get this waiver. The whole thing makes no sense to be disqualified for for something this simple and irrelevant. I passed the hearing needs to be an airmarshal and that was based on hearing someone whisper in an aircraft in flight. Well enough of my soap box, will sit here by the phone waiting on the recruiters call. :rolleyes:
Whispering in an aircraft is not a very scientific test.
Your hearing will not improve during your service. It will only get worse as you age, even if you are not exposed to further damage.
The Army is hurting for enlistments, but does not need a nearly deaf, 40 year old E-4.
You might consider that your fellow soldier's lives could hang on your ability to hear clearly.
TR
Just as much as the passengers lives on an aircraft depends on it or my partner on the beat depends on it, or the aircrew I flew with when my hearing was also not perfect. I got out of the navy with the same amount of hearing loss that I have now but yet I still got an RE-1 (Recommended for ReEnlistment). Scientific or not a man has to know his limitations and hearing is not one of mine. Besides that how many soldiers on your team or in SF have hearing problems comparable to mine or worse? I find it hard to believe that you do not incur hearing loss during live fire exercises or being around aircraft all the time. If you are prone to be in high noise enviorments you are going to lose some hearing. :rolleyes:
The Army is hurting for enlistments, but does not need a nearly deaf, 40 year old E-4.
Obviously you did not read my post nearly deaf would be numbers in the 80's to 100 range my worst one hit a 45 and that is on the upper most end like the higest ptch of a turbine whine, hmmm I can see where being unable to hear that would endanger lives (Sarcasm)! :rolleyes:
The Reaper
07-29-2005, 11:57
Just as much as the passengers lives on an aircraft depends on it or my partner on the beat depends on it, or the aircrew I flew with when my hearing was also not perfect. I got out of the navy with the same amount of hearing loss that I have now but yet I still got an RE-1 (Recommended for ReEnlistment). Scientific or not a man has to know his limitations and hearing is not one of mine. Besides that how many soldiers on your team or in SF have hearing problems comparable to mine or worse? I find it hard to believe that you do not incur hearing loss during live fire exercises or being around aircraft all the time. If you are prone to be in high noise enviorments you are going to lose some hearing. :rolleyes:
Obviously you did not read my post nearly deaf would be numbers in the 80's to 100 range my worst one hit a 45 and that is on the upper most end like the higest ptch of a turbine whine, hmmm I can see where being unable to hear that would endanger lives (Sarcasm)! :rolleyes:
Frank:
Check the attitude. You have been warned. This site is about SF, not how you do it on the beat or in a plane. The requirements are vastly different, they have their standards, and we have ours.
I have buddies who are NG SF and also FAMs. They readily acknowledge that the FAMs take people who are unqualified for any armed service, much less SF.
As I noted, your hearing loss will continue to get worse, even without additional exposure. More exposure, as you noted above, will accelerate your loss of hearing. I have a 20dB loss at 2000 Hz in one ear, have trouble hearing some sounds (like conversation) myself, and I am no longer able to serve on a team. Bottom line: Your marginal hearing now will get worse. Much worse in SF.
When you are the guy on watch, and you cannot hear the BGs moving up on your team (as one of about 100 examples I could cite), you are a real liability and are endangering your fellow team members. Don't be selfish.
I did not state that you were deaf now. I stated that you would be nearly deaf by the time you finished a few years of exposure on a team. Then you can ride the pine on the B Team for the rest of your career. This is based on my 21 years of service in SF, and six in the SF Schoolhouse pushing students.
Read this carefully. It is "Special Forces" you are considering. Not "Average Forces" or "Nearly Good Enough Forces". Special Forces. Think about it.
TR
...... The whole thing makes no sense to be disqualified for for something this simple and irrelevant......
Sound is not irrelevant. Darkness is the friend of SOF operations. Yeah, it gets loud from time to time but its the quiet times where you make your money in SF.
Prior to NVGs the eyes and ears worked together in the darkness. Your eyes had a wide range of vision. With NVGs you can see great but on a limited field of view. The ears are more critical in picking up whats going on to your sides.
Lets not forget smell. For all you coming out to CMK to train you better work on the nose also. Fresh turned dirt from the pine forest of the Piedmont has a very distinct smell. Camp fires, smoke, food, tobacco products all smell and drift on the wind.
Each region of the word has it's own distinct smells and sounds. Learn them.
It is far better to know whats about to happen and cause the enemy to react to you than to have to pull an IAD and react to what the enemy is doing to you.
Added thought here. For those who have never done it, one of the hardest things to do is stand absolutly motionless on a moonless night while under a heavy load. Your mouth is open as you try to breath slowly and quietly as you pop your ears with your jaw so you might hear just a tad better. You slowly tilt and turn your head a bit to focus in on a faint sound in the distance. Your team mate shifts his shoulder and the movement of his gear sounds like a door slamming. Sound, oh yeah, sound is very important when there is just a few of you.
I must have misunderstood your post, I am absolutely 100% in agreement with you and completetly understand that being on a SF team is now out of the question it is a bit disappointing but part of life. The problem that I have is I am fully capable and able to perform as a soldier in the Army and the hearing does not effect 99% of the jobs available. Besides that I know for a fact through previous expiriences that when in a shooting or fire fight I don't lay down in a fetal position crying, later having to be rescued by SEALS and Rangers, enough said on that.
Granted the FAMS do have their problems and fortunately I was able to get the inside scoop from a lot of FAM friends that had nothing but complaints and wished they had never left their original agencies. I know of one FAM that managed restraunts and went directly to being a FAM with no prior Law Enforcement, weapons, or tactical training.
Will see what happens, still waiting on the call.
"Besides that I know for a fact through previous expiriences that when in a shooting or fire fight I don't lay down in a fetal position crying, later having to be rescued by SEALS and Rangers, enough said on that. "
If you are trying to piss me off by suggesting something about some of my brothers, congratulations you succeeded. Now you need to be quiet, listen to what is said here. Until you have been the places and accomplished the things the men here have, don't make these type of remarks. Maybe you just need to move out and draw fire.
haztacmedic
07-29-2005, 15:08
I started this whole post so I feel compelled to respond to you FRANK. Your hearing dilema is unfortunate. I wish you had better results. You need to immediately end the sarcastic tone with the QPs here. No one (I believe ) cares that you have or may have been in a contact with bullets flying. The comment about being rescued by seals and rangers from a fetal position,crying is not going to get you the reaction you wanted. No one cares.
I hope you get the hearing problem fixed. Id bet that there are some QPs at CMC that would like to meet you if you get there.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-29-2005, 19:27
enough said on that.
.
Not quite! If you want to shoot off your mouth about something you obviously know absolutely nothing about and hurl invectives and innuendos about the character and service of folks with whom you will never measure up to you have fired your last shot. So let me put it in terms you might better understand, "Now hear this, your request to come aboard is denied"
Whoa Whoa wait a minute folks I don't know where it went sideways, but I assure you whole heartedly I did not imply any reflection of my previous statement to ANY quiete Professional or specop type. I believe there was a misunderstanding in my post or more specifically I was not accurate in my post. I would never doubt the quals, abilities and convictions of any of the worlds best soldiers,YOU GUYS! I appologize if it was taken in a disrespectful way it was certainly not meant that way.
I was talking about Jessica Lynch and then being glorified as a hero, if that still offends than I am sorry but that is my opinion. If you still want to kick me from the board go ahead but as long as you guys know that I was not talking smack about any of you guys or your brothers, I would never do that because I understand the sacrafices you have to make to do what you guys do..
Frank :eek:
Team Sergeant
07-29-2005, 20:11
Frank you've managed to also piss me off. Take a few weeks off before you post again.
"Besides that I know for a fact through previous expiriences that when in a shooting or fire fight I don't lay down in a fetal position crying, later having to be rescued by SEALS and Rangers, enough said on that."
This is now closed.