View Full Version : Leaving the Left
BMT (RIP)
05-23-2005, 03:44
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/22/INGUNCQHKJ1.DTL
:munchin
BMT
rubberneck
05-23-2005, 07:39
Thanks for posting that. For me the money quote was:
My estrangement hasn't happened overnight. Out of the corner of my eye I watched what was coming for more than three decades, yet refused to truly see. Now it's all too obvious. Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom.
Bill Harsey
05-23-2005, 08:26
Interesting...
Do you think this is a sign of a changing mood among some in the United States?
Bill Harsey
05-23-2005, 11:37
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/22/INGUNCQHKJ1.DTL
:munchin
BMT
BMT, Good catch.
Your guy was a featured guest on Rush this morning after Rush read Keith's article outloud.
Very well written article, it was the type of writing that I was drawn to finish from the beginning, because I could tell he believed every word of what he was saying. I would be willing to bet that his books are good as well. Thanks for posting that.
Achilles
05-24-2005, 16:16
Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom.
:munchin
Achilles, do you disagree with that comment? All I continue to hear from the left and the tree huggers is what the President does wrong, everything from the war in Iraq to the economy (which he inherited) and on and on. I don't ever seem to recall hearing what their plan is. You know, Kerry had a plan...or so he said. Guess he didn't feel it was necessary to share it with the unwashed masses.
The left and the MSM seem more outraged about Saddam in his tighty whiteys than the mass graves, the rape rooms, the torture chambers, the beheadings, the chemical attacks he authorized and the myriad of crimes against humanity and his own countrymen and women. I understand that we are better than they in regard to the Geneva Convention, and why pictures like that can seemingly do more harm than good. Hell Al Jazerra wouldn't publish those pics but they'll show pictures and host videos of beheadings. WTF over?
However I also feel that there are many, too many, in this Country that would rather see Iraq fall into utter chaos just because GWB gave the word to go in and remove a murderous dictator that WOULD indeed continue to fund terrorists and their attacks on us, and our interests.
People can piss and moan all they want that we shouldn't have gone in to Iraq, but the fact is we DID so why can't they support the freedom our Military has fought for and died for, for a previously oppressed people?
My favorite passage from the column:
These days the postmodern left demands that government and private institutions guarantee equality of outcomes. Any racial or gender "disparities" are to be considered evidence of culpable bias, regardless of factors such as personal motivation, training, and skill. This goal is neither liberal nor progressive; but it is what the left has chosen. In a very real sense it may be the last card held by a movement increasingly ensnared in resentful questing for group-specific rights and the subordination of citizenship to group identity. There's a word for this: pathetic
Achilles
05-25-2005, 07:43
Achilles, do you disagree with that comment?
That comment illustrates why I dislike modern-day liberals so much. I've always been centrist, leaning right on foreign policy and economics, but even being ASSOCIATED with their all-encompassing and unwarranted policies towards the current administration, criminal/terrorist accountability and freedom in general disgusts me.
Its not so much that the left tries to crucify Bush, but they give the Clintons, Kerry and the rest of their gang such a free pass. It's the blantant subjectivity which galls me. Ronald Kessler points this out continuosly in his book A Matter of Character. It's very ironic that when President Reagan passed away the outpouring of admiration was so pervasive because I remember the critsism when he was alive was so pronounced. It was similar to what Bush receives. He doesn't make his own decisions, he's just a figurehead, etc.
aricbcool
05-25-2005, 18:16
It was similar to what Bush receives. He doesn't make his own decisions, he's just a figurehead, etc.
Beware the true mastermind... Karl Rove. :rolleyes:
--Aric
frostfire
05-25-2005, 20:40
My estrangement hasn't happened overnight. Out of the corner of my eye I watched what was coming for more than three decades, yet refused to truly see. Now it's all too obvious. Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom.
perhaps they just want to stay in their comfort zone, lay dormant, and keep US isolated from the rest of the world...clearly, GWB is an obstacle in their path. Check and balance is good, but this is sad :(
aricbcool
05-25-2005, 21:13
What I find really disgusting is that usually, the stance of wanting to stay out of the worlds affairs is usually the one held by conservatives. I remember the big conservative backlash associated with Somalia, Bosnia, et al back in the nineties.
Back then, Clinton was all about deploying troops in a "world police" style effort.
Dole even campaigned on less military involvement overseas.
But now that we have a Republican President, they are all about seeing anything he is involved in fail.
This time, unfortunately, our troop presence involves more than stopping genocide and hunger. National Security is at stake. They're all willing to ignore that for the sake of politics. :mad:
--Aric
What I find really disgusting is that usually, the stance of wanting to stay out of the worlds affairs is usually the one held by conservatives. I remember the big conservative backlash associated with Somalia, Bosnia, et al back in the nineties.
Back then, Clinton was all about deploying troops in a "world police" style effort.
Dole even campaigned on less military involvement overseas.
But now that we have a Republican President, they are all about seeing anything he is involved in fail.
This time, unfortunately, our troop presence involves more than stopping genocide and hunger. National Security is at stake. They're all willing to ignore that for the sake of politics. :mad:
--Aric
LOLOLOl........ To funny Aric.
No offense, but you were 13 or so when the Somalia/Mogadishu thing went down. Watching...... what? MTV....
Outside of that waste bubba.......billy the zipper..... do you know who his Secretary of Defense was then?
One other thing. I've been going through this since the late 60's til now. BMT and others can attest to that. They.......... hell they are lucky to still be alive. Doing what they did. Believe it or not they did it when the lib media turned this Country against them. Want to debate whether that war or we ended up there was right or wrong, fine. It is definately debatable. Thing is!! In other words...... let's just pussyfoot around so we don't OFFEND. Isn't PC wonderful? What it does ..... is gets Americans killed!! Just like it did back then and we havn't even reached that level yet. However, with the prominent media and TV, it shouldn't be too much longer.................
Cool, Just like the 60/70's..................
aricbcool
05-30-2005, 16:23
LOLOLOl........ To funny Aric.
No offense, but you were 13 or so when the Somalia/Mogadishu thing went down. Watching...... what? MTV....
Outside of that waste bubba.......billy the zipper..... do you know who his Secretary of Defense was then?
No offense taken. Yes, I was 13 when Somalia happened. Watched the coverage on CNN. Though I didn't know it at the time, to answer your question, Secretary of Defense was Les Aspin.
Now if I may, I'd like to clarify my previous post.
Being so young, I don't remember Somalia very well, but I do remember it.
With more clarity, I remember the whole Bosnia debate, which I intensely followed back in 95-96.
What Aspin did or didn't do is besides the point. I think that both Somalia and Bosnia and later Kosove help to illustrate a trend of military intervention by the US during the Clinton administration that was supported by the Democratic party.
Yet now, when there is a country that wants democracy and wants to improve their way of life and actually needs our help (politically, economically and militarily), the left is loathe to give it at the expense of supporting a President they don't like.
Respectfully,
Aric
P.S. PM Inbound
No offense, but you were 13 or so when the Somalia/Mogadishu thing went down. Watching...... what? MTV....
Outside of that waste bubba.......billy the zipper..... do you know who his Secretary of Defense was then?Les Aspin was SecDef for WJC at the time...we were deployed during the elder Bush presidency...his SecDef is the current VP...given that whole period of time, it is best to say mistakes were made, both by the outgoing GOP administration and by the incoming Dim administration...hell, we went there without the SAWs for the gun Hummers...don't know who thought that up, obviously someone who didn't have to cruise October 19th Boulevard looking for information and passing out handbills...
my sons were 15 and 11 respectively...
now i feel old...almost as old as 12B4S... :D
aricbcool
05-30-2005, 19:57
Les Aspin was SecDef for WJC at the time...we were deployed during the elder Bush presidency...his SecDef is the current VP...given that whole period of time, it is best to say mistakes were made, both by the outgoing GOP administration and by the incoming Dim administration...hell, we went there without the SAWs for the gun Hummers...don't know who thought that up, obviously someone who didn't have to cruise October 19th Boulevard looking for information and passing out handbills...
my sons were 15 and 11 respectively...
now i feel old...almost as old as 12B4S... :D
And now I see the humor in my first post.
While I knew that Cheney was SecDef during Bush 41's term, the deployment to Somalia during his term had to this point escaped me.
At this point, I'll just shut up. :o
While I knew that Cheney was SecDef during Bush 41's term, the deployment to Somalia during his term had to this point escaped me.seems to escape a lot of folks...some of us know better...
jasonglh
05-31-2005, 00:32
seems to escape a lot of folks...some of us know better...
Many of us in MTV world knew you guys were there. I was 22 and had a keen interest in such affairs unlike most of my friends.
I for one appreciate your efforts in Somalia. When all the troops came home it was like it never happened and now barely makes a damn paragraph in a US history book. But the losses were real and still felt today. One of the reasons I have such an interest in the events in Somalia is the way dad was treated when he came home from Vietnam in 70. Like he said "We were winning our part, someone above my paygrade dicked it up."
I do remember the Republicans being pissed and calling for troops to be pulled out of Somalia in Oct of 93. However in their defense I dont think most of them were aware that it had gone from a humanitarian mission to covert ops. I'm sure them finding out from CNN didnt sit well and they didnt like President Clinton anyway.
I dont think you can compare the actions of the left over Iraq and Afghanistan to 93 fairly the missons are different. I also remember some protestors ( I have a pic somewhere) holding signs reading "No Vietnam in Somalia" :rolleyes: But it certainly was not on the scale we see now which I attribute to the fact they had "thier guy" in office.
...hell, we went there without the SAWs for the gun Hummers...don't know who thought that up, obviously someone who didn't have to cruise October 19th Boulevard looking for information and passing out handbills...
my sons were 15 and 11 respectively...
now i feel old...almost as old as 12B4S... :D
Damn! Maybe you are Steve. My daughter was 12 then. :D
Colin Powell had requested armor, Aspin denied that request. They went in there without any plan of backup or proper support. But, I'll leave it at that, isn't the place to rehash that Op.
Aric, after rereading your post and your PM, looks like I misread or misunderstood. Yes, The libs are hurting this country and our people in uniform.
Not to mention brainwashing our children. They didn't get to mine however. I taught her about this Country and Patriotism longgggggggg before the lib teachers had thier chance. I never spoke politics with her. No dem/Republican/lib/conserative stuff with her. Oddly enough she figured that out on her own. Just common sense and a love for this Country......
jason. You're right and your Dad KNOWS!