Ethnic Rift

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/5/10/155824.shtml

There is trouble in paradise!! :boohoo

BMT

[jbour13]

Good info BMT, thanks for sharing. Gets the point across that they all have a different agenda and it has nothing to do with religion, only ambition and stupidity.

Maybe they'll learn to not trust one another so we can sit back and watch.

I'd say pay-per-view would make a killing if we could market it right. :D

[Airbornelawyer]

The "ethnic rift" is unsurprising.

The goal of Usama bin Laden in founding al-Qa'ida was to form a grand coalition of Islamist terrorist groups around the world that would be something like the hydra-headed conspiracy of a Mack Bolan novel (or actual cooperation between Marxist terrorist groups like that seen between the Japanese Red Army and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine).

Thus, al-Qa'ida was supposed to unite groups around the world like the Abu Sayyaf Group (the Philippines), Jemaah Islamiyah (mainly Indonesia), the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Algeria's Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), etc. Hence the name - al-qa'ida means "the base" or "the foundation."

But these groups had little in common. Only a few shared the particular brand of Islamism of Bin Laden and the core al-Qa'ida members. And few had global ambitions. So while al-Qa'ida ostensibly has thousands of members worldwide, when it comes to operations with a true al-Qa'ida stamp, such as the 1998 embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya, the attack on the USS Cole, and the 9-11 attacks, the actual planners and perpetrators are almost always Arabs. In fact, they are almost always Arabs from the same areas - former Egyptian Islamic Jihad members who followed Ayman al-Zawahiri into the AQ fold, and Yemenis and Saudis recruited by Bin Laden. Of the 19 9-11 hijackers, 15 were Saudis, two were from the UAE, one was Egyptian and one was Lebanese. Among other conspirators, Ramzi bin al-Shibh was a Yemeni, Zakariyah Essabar was a Moroccan who lived in Germany, Muhammed al-Kahtani was a Saudi, Mustafa al-Hawsawi is apparently a Saudi, Zacarias Moussaoui was a French citizen of Moroccan descent.

Iraq is supposedly now a magnet for foreign jihadists worldwide, but a review of those actually captured or killed indicates virtually all are Arabs (overwhelmingly Saudis and Syrians). Arab jihadists went to Afghanistan, Bosnia and Chechnya to fight the infidel, but non-Arab jihadists don't appear to have returned the favor. And even the Arab jihadists in Iraq appear to have turned most of the locals against them.

[jbour13]

AL,

Good points on your post. This really re-enforces a past post:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6113&highlight=iraqi+caught

It seems that most of those caught are hard liners that have a few individuals that were coerced into doing the foreigners bidding. Likely influenced by holding families hostage (old reports confirm it happened) or a lack of jobs flooding the terrorist recruit market.

The scariest part about having a one centralized head to the Islamist movement is not the fact that all are united, but what happens when you shatter the head and clear leadership is not defined. Kind of like having a rogue state with no borders.

I think historically personal agendas have kept these groups separate but they have found strength in blending the lines of nationality. Again you'll still see an Arab at the head calling the shots. The fallout from not having a born Arab Islamist at the top making the big decision would cause it to ultimately lose popularity. Jihadists are born everyday, converts just fill the gaps and carry the fundamentalist principals. Islam is great religion and those that are true islamists will not condone the barbaric acts we now see daily.

Will true islamists take up a cause to counter the disease within their own ranks? That's the only way to be successful in the GWOT.

That is when the ethnic rift will hit critical mass.

[pulque]

The mujahadeen leader who was a commander during the Soviet invasion, and who later challenged the authority of the Taliban in the late 90's was an ethnic Tajik. Ahmed Shah Massoud was murdered by two arabs - suicide bombers posing as journalists.

In the early 90's, I believe it was US pressure that kept Pakistan's ISI from encouraging afghan warlords (notably, the Pashtun warlord Hekmatyar, Massoud's mortal enemy) from incurring on Soviet land in central asia (Uzbekistan). Now that the cold war is over, could there still be significant tension between the ethnic pashtuns (southern afghans) and former soviet states to the north? ie, tension that is not arab vs indigenous.

[pulque]

AL,

Good points on your post. This really re-enforces a past post:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6113&highlight=iraqi+caught

that looks like a good thread thanks for the pointer

[Airbornelawyer]

In the early 90's, I believe it was US pressure that kept Pakistan's ISI from encouraging afghan warlords (notably, the Pashtun warlord Hekmatyar, Massoud's mortal enemy) from incurring on Soviet land in central asia (Uzbekistan). Now that the cold war is over, could there still be significant tension between the ethnic pashtuns (southern afghans) and former soviet states to the north? ie, tension that is not arab vs indigenous.Your information is somewhat erroneous. Pakistan's ISI specifically favored Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezb-e Islami because it did not threaten Soviet Central Asia.

Among the mujahideen parties, there were three parties usually described as traditionalist (Gailani's NIFA, Mojadedi's ANLF and Mohammedi's Harakat). They favored a return of the king and restoration of Afghanistan's traditional tribal system. They were all predominantly Pushtun, though having power bases in different segments of the population (basically, former military officers, tribal elders and the village religious leadership).

There were four parties usually described as Islamist. Two of these were minor parties (Sayyaf's Ittehad and a Hezb breakaway led by Yunus Khalis). The other two were Hekmatyar's Hezb and Rabbani's Jami'at-e Islami, the party to which Massoud belonged. Hekmatyar's power base was among so-called detribalized Pushtuns - urban dwellers and those living in the north whose loyalty to the traditional leadership was broken. Rabbani's power base was among ethnic Tajiks such as Massoud in the northeast and Ismael Khan in the west (Ismael Khan is now the governor of Herat).

During the war against the Soviets, Uzbeks generally remained loyal to the communist regime. What Uzbek mujahideen there were tended to be part of Jami'at. Other ethnic and religious minorities followed different paths. The Hazaras, ethnically Mongol and religiously Shi'ite, vigorously fought the communists. The Isma'ilis, a Shi'ite splinter sect, supported the regime. All of these, though, eventually sided with the United Front (AKA the Northern Alliance).

Pakistan favored Hekmatyar for several reasons, the most important of which were:

1. The traditionalist parties were all loyal to the king and drew power from the Pushtun tribes. There are as many Pushtuns in Pakistan as in Afghanistan, and the king was an advocate of "Greater Pushtunistan", so the Pakistani government considered the royalists a threat to Pakistani territorial integrity.

2. Hekmatyar's Hezb shared an ideology generally similar to the Islamism of Pakistan's main Islamist group, Jama'at Islami, which is very influential in the Pakistani officer corps. Pakistan, like Afghanistan, is a cobbled-together multi-ethnic state with Islam as the only unifying factor. Pakistani "nationalism" is, essentially, Islam.

3. Hekmatyar was utterly opportunistic, so ISI though he could be a useful pawn.

In the eyes of the Pakistani officer corps and the ISI, Hekmatyar was the ideal horse to back because he would maintain Afghanistan's national identity and, more importantly, its borders. He would be no threat to Pakistan.

In fact, it was Jami'at, and especially Ahmad Shah Massoud, who presented a threat to the Central Asian republics. Jami'at provided support to Tajikistan's United Tajik Opposition (UTO) before and during the Tajikistan Civil War of 1992-93.

The current Uzbek and Tajik governments, having materially supported the United Front against the Taliban, have close relationships with Afghanistan's Uzbek and Tajik leaders, especially Uzbekistan with Afghan Uzbek leader Rashid Dostum. Iran also has good relations with several Tajik leaders (who speak the same language) such as Ismael Khan, and with Afghanistan's main Shi'ite parties. The current Afghan government is a balancing act of Afghanistan's main ethnic and religious communities, and there are probably many Pushtuns who resent the loss of their special status, but outside of Hekmatyar and the neo-Taliban, most appear to be working within the system (for example, Sibghatullah Mojadedi, who headed the royalist ANLF in the Afghan-Soviet War, chaired the loya jirga which drafted Afghanistan's constitution).

[Bill Harsey]

Airborne Lawyer, Sir,
Just a footnote as per your reference of a Mack Bolan novel.

I have been featured in a Mack Bolan novel.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Airborne Lawyer, Sir,
Just a footnote as per your reference of a Mack Bolan novel.

I have been featured in a Mack Bolan novel.

:munchin

[The Reaper]

Airborne Lawyer, Sir,
Just a footnote as per your reference of a Mack Bolan novel.

I have been featured in a Mack Bolan novel.

I want to hear this story as well. :munchin

TR

[Ambush Master]

I want to hear this story as well. :munchin

TR

Methinks that this has to do with a "Fairbain Auto-Folder" !! :munchin

[Bill Harsey]

Yes it has to do with being Col. Rex Applegates knifemaker.
The author has stayed here as a guest.

[The Reaper]

Yes it has to do with being Col. Rex Applegates knifemaker.
The author has stayed here as a guest.

The original author, or the numerous ghost writers hired after Don handed it off?

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Which book?

[vsvo]

I have been featured in a Mack Bolan novel.

I'd love to hear that story as well Mr. Harsey! I loved reading those early books, stopped reading them after Don Pendleton stopped writing them.

[pulque]

Your information is somewhat erroneous. Pakistan's ISI specifically favored Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezb-e Islami because it did not threaten Soviet Central Asia.

I don't have any information. I was refering to the early incursions, such as those in 1985 (not the later ones against Karimov in 1999). I thought that some in ISI (Mohammed Youssaf, perhaps) facilitated the Afghan incursions into Uzbekistan at that time. Since Hekmatyar was the ISI's guy I did just assume that he was the one, although I suppose it didnt have to be any of the Peshawar 7 who led those operations.