Colombia Arrests 2 U.S. Soldiers

[Roguish Lawyer]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/05/04/colombia.smuggling/index.html

Colombia arrests 2 U.S. soldiers
Government: Americans planned to supply arms to paramilitaries
From Karl Penhaul
CNN

Wednesday, May 4, 2005 Posted: 3:48 PM EDT (1948 GMT)

BOGOTA, Colombia (CNN) -- Colombian police said Wednesday that they have detained two U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in an arms-smuggling plot.

The head of the Colombian police, Gen. Jorge Daniel Castro, told reporters that in addition to the two soldiers, a former Colombian military officer was also detained during the raid Tuesday by government troops.

The raid targeted a house in a town 43 miles (70 kilometers) southwest of the capital, Bogota, and netted 22,000 rounds of assault rifle ammunition, Castro said.

Police sources said they suspect the rounds were intended for outlawed right-wing paramilitary forces.

The U.S. Embassy has confirmed the detentions. Neither the soldiers nor their ranks have been identified publicly.

The scandal is the second in a month to involve U.S. soldiers in Colombia.

In April, five U.S. soldiers from an anti-narcotics base in eastern Colombia were detained upon arrival in the United States carrying 18 kilograms of cocaine.

Most U.S. soldiers in Colombia are military advisers drawn from the elite Special Forces or Rangers units and are sent to train Colombian counter-narcotics and anti-insurgency forces.

The United States has invested $1.3 billion dollars in assistance to support Colombia's plan to achieve peace, fight crime and improve government. The State Department has said that 90 percent of the cocaine and most of the heroin in the U.S. market comes from Colombia, at a cost of $110 billion a year.

[Swindleous]

Hopefully these cases will result in actual punishments for those involved, unlike the Colonel Hiett debacle in 99-2000.

[NousDefionsDoc]

It wasn't me.

[tyrsnbdr]

It wasn't me.

You sound guilty of something, is there something you want to admit. :D

[Peregrino]

You sound guilty of something, is there something you want to admit. :D

Admit NOTHING, Deny EVERYTHING. and immediately make COUNTER-ACCUSATIONS!! :p Peregrino

[Bill Harsey]

Admit NOTHING, Deny EVERYTHING. and immediately make COUNTER-ACCUSATIONS!! :p Peregrino
It's the little touches like this that inspire me to try and achieve greater... uh, something.

[NousDefionsDoc]

You sound guilty of something, is there something you want to admit. :D


Where were you Tuesday night?

[NousDefionsDoc]

Admit NOTHING, Deny EVERYTHING. and immediately make COUNTER-ACCUSATIONS!! :p Peregrino
You left off taking care of key witnesses Brother. :)

[lksteve]

It wasn't me.
you just haven't been caught...yet... ;)

[Peregrino]

You left off taking care of key witnesses Brother. :)

The problem with most of them, especially nowadays, is they won't stay bought. Besides, even renting a backhoe gets expensive! :D Peregrino

[tyrsnbdr]

Where were you Tuesday night?


hmmm... I don't seem to recall. :cool:

[Basenshukai]

First and foremost, I hope that this is some sort of misunderstanding. If it isn't, this is going to have some serious consequences (in their case, this is an understatement).

If the situation is anywhere near true, as reported, the gentlemen involved should have known better.

From what I've seen any ammunition is tightly controlled. I can see this control being even more tightly enforced during further deployments. I hope cooler heads prevail and that a knee-jerk reaction does not cause leaders in charge to assume that what happened is anywhere near common practice.

[The Reaper]

Hopefully these cases will result in actual punishments for those involved, unlike the Colonel Hiett debacle in 99-2000.

Do you know COL Hiett?

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Stepped on his peepee and I shot right past. Sorry Sir, I'll be more vigilant.

[The Reaper]

Stepped on his peepee and I shot right past. Sorry Sir, I'll be more vigilant.

You got my back covered so often that policing up after you once in a while is a priviledge.

TR

[Leozinho]

Here's today's NY Times article. It requires registration, and would have to be purchased to view a week from now, so I'm pasting it below.

NYTimes.com
Colombia Yields 2 Accused Soldiers to U.S.
By JUAN FORERO
BOGOTÁ, Colombia, May 5 - Two American soldiers arrested by the Colombian police for arms smuggling were handed over to the United States Embassy on Thursday, angering Colombian authorities and ordinary Colombians who believe that the two should face charges here.

Under treaty obligations, [edited to remove soldiers' names] who had been stationed in Colombia as part of the American effort to fight drugs and Marxist rebels, will be investigated by American officials and, if charged, face trial in the United States. The two men, along with four Colombians, were arrested Tuesday in a luxury gated community in Melgar, where the police found 32,000 rounds of ammunition that they contend was bound for right-wing paramilitary groups.

The case has deeply embarrassed the United States, which on Thursday denied that the Bush administration was secretly helping Colombia's brutal paramilitary organization, the United Self-Defense Forces, in its fight against Marxist rebels.

"There is absolutely no U.S. policy and U.S. support or U.S. inclination or U.S. military operations involved in arming paramilitaries," Richard A. Boucher, a State Department spokesman, said in Washington. "We have declared these groups to be terrorist groups."

Senior Colombian authorities tried to stop the transfer of the Americans. The government's inspector general, Edgardo Maya, sent a letter early Thursday to the attorney general's office requesting that the soldiers be held until Colombian authorities could determine if several treaties giving Americans immunity fell in line with the country's 1991 Constitution. But the attorney general's office had already transferred the men to American custody.

"What this shows is that we are under the American thumb," said Andrés Baca, 63, an insurance salesman who was in the area where the men were arrested. "What works for them, works for them, and what they don't want to do, they don't do. Our judicial system is dominated by the United States."

Colombians are still seething that James C. Hiett, the former Army colonel who ran the American military mission here, was sentenced to just five months by a Brooklyn court in 2000 for failing to report that his wife had been smuggling heroin from Bogotá to New York in diplomatic pouches. His wife, Laurie Ann Hiett, received a five-year term, while their Colombian driver, Jorge Alonso Ayala, remains in a Colombian jail, serving an eight-year sentence.

Colombians also question whether three American soldiers arrested in Texas for trafficking cocaine from Colombia will face serious penalties.

"What worries us are these treaties of immunity," said Diana Murcia, a lawyer with the Lawyers Collective, a Bogotá group that says American anti-drug efforts in Colombia violate its laws. "This allows them to commit crimes. They have all the possibilities to do it."

The latest scandal is particularly worrisome because the Colombian police accused the American soldiers of having ties to a paramilitary organization that has killed thousands of Colombian civilians and finances its war through drug trafficking. The allegations are particularly troubling for President Álvaro Uribe, whose government has been locked in disarmament negotiations with the 15,000-member group.

Mr. Uribe is already under fire from the United Nations, human rights groups and several Colombian congressmen for pushing new legislation governing the demobilization of the group.

These critics say that the bill, which will probably be approved in the coming weeks, does little to guarantee that paramilitary groups are dismantled or that commanders reveal their inner workings. Under the bill, paramilitary commanders, even those wanted for war crimes, would serve less than three years on farms in regions they control because of credits for their participation in talks and for good behavior.

Monica Trujillo contributed reporting from Melgar for this article.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Stupid assed article. None of the people commenting are shit. An insurance salesman? A lawyer from the lawyer union?

Colombians aren't seething over the Hiett thing, they don't freakin' care.

The government's inspector general? WTF is that?

The whole thing is bullshit.

[The Reaper]

Well, the Times had to find a left-leaning comment or two somewhere from someone who wasn't a known member of the FARC or ELN.

Otherwise, where would their objectivity be?

TR

[NousDefionsDoc]

Monica Trujillo is suspect....

[CRad]

The whole thing is bullshit.

yes. Rule of thumb - First reports are always wrong and second reports have political fingerprints all over them, but then you knew didn't you? :cool:

[Basenshukai]

The following is a translation of an article in one of the two most popular Colombian news organizations. I didn't want to put a link, or mention the source to it, because the Colombian news media essentially threw OPSEC out the window and published their names, rank, unit and color photos of both US soldiers along with this story (!).

Prior to reading this ... for those that don't know: Based on my limited experience, Colombian media is largely, by our definition, liberal left-wing. Also, Colombian authorities tend to jump to conclusions early on. And, when there is a "gringo" to be blamed, they jump at the opportunity if it allows them to come out looking better in the end. I'm not making a blanket statement about all Colombians. This is just what I've experienced from their military and governmental organizations. For what it's worth.

May 7, 2005

BOGOTA (Major Colombian News Organization) - After four days of investigation, the Colombian authorities have been able to reconstruct the way in which they [the accused US soldiers] removed the ammunition from the Tolemaida Military Base and would send it to the Paramilitaries in Magdalena Medio.

Since the two soldiers worked in the marksmanship training of the Colombian soldiers, they would request ammunition, which would then be removed from storage. However, they [the accused US soldiers] would only use one third of the amount requested. The rest was removed in pick-up trucks, which were not inspected.

The Justice Department [Colombian Justice Department] points out that for four months, the foreign military personnel and their accomplices were negotiating a business agreement with the AUC. Once the ammunition arrived at the house in the condominium where the arrests were made, they [the accused] would hide it while they settled their business deal – which was also being negotiated in the same place.

In order to remove the ammunition, they would use a green pick-up truck that has been impounded by the authorities. One of the investigators revealed to [major Colombian news organization] that they [the accused] would mix the ammunition with rice husk or sawdust in the vehicle that would transport it [the ammunition] to La Dorada, in Caldas [a department – a state – in Colombia].

The plan fell apart when the [Colombian] Highway Patrol detected the vehicle and captured Carlos Julio Gualteros and Juan Carlos Arenas Rojas [these two are Colombian nationals and NOT the US soldiers]. After various communications, two undercover agents arrived at the civilian home and pretended to be potential buyers.

There, a Colombian Army NCO – whom was watching over the ammunition – opened the door and there, in the interior of the home, were the two US military personnel.

[NousDefionsDoc]

would hide it while they settled their business deal – which was also being negotiated in the same place.
nice tradecraft


would only use one third of the amount requested.
Clever. Jerry Lewis must be the brains of the outfit.

[Leozinho]

I didn't think to delete the names given that Reuters, AP, NY Times, CNN, Fox, etc have already published them. The AP has a quote from one of the soldiers' father.

I hope the facts of the case turn out to be other than what has been reported and the men are cleared, but don't expect the press to maintain your OPSEC once you get arrested for selling ammo to a terrorist group (the US government's definition, not mine.)

[NousDefionsDoc]

The press can do whatever they want and the government will allow. Posting the names on this site implies some kind of verification given who we are and the standards we maintain here.

We are not the Fifth Column of some democratically-elected bunch of socialist ass clowns. We don't try cases and convict people by name on a discussion forum. Not even our own.

They will be measured and if found lacking, dealt with. That is the nature of the beast.

[The Reaper]

I didn't think to delete the names given that Reuters, AP, NY Times, CNN, Fox, etc have already published them. The AP has a quote from one of the soldiers' father.

I hope the facts of the case turn out to be other than what has been reported and the men are cleared, but don't expect the press to maintain your OPSEC once you get arrested for selling ammo to a terrorist group (the US government's definition, not mine.)

Leozinho:

I suppose that they are already guilty, in your mind, having been tried and sentenced by the U.S. and Colombian media, but since we don't know what really happened yet, let us wait for the facts before we post their names.

Should you make it through the pipeline, one day, someone you know will be accused of something, and you might have a different perspective then.

If that logic fails, then don't post names here because an Admin told you not to.

Got it?

TR

[Basenshukai]

I didn't think to delete the names given that Reuters, AP, NY Times, CNN, Fox, etc have already published them. The AP has a quote from one of the soldiers' father.


Yeah, I noticed that too. Fox News had published their names the very day that the news broke. Hours later, their ranks were on their website, along with their names. What amazed me was that the Colombian news media published the names of all of the accused and, for the Colombian nationals, even revealed their identification numbers (similar to our Social Security Numbers) along with each name! They won't preserve OPSEC once the arrest becomes a matter of public record (at which point, any citizen can see the details released). But, we do our best here to preserve as much OPSEC as possible; at least for the principle involved.

Tonight I watched the re-broadcast of Colombian news hour, from one of the two news organizations I mentioned earlier, and they showed film footage of the two US soldiers being questioned by the authorities in a conference room. In case you haven't been down south yet, the Colombians like to parade captured / accused persons on TV. One of the two soldiers still had on a black t-shirt with his parent unit's emblem emblazoned on it which, of course, the camera focused on (!).

For tonight's broadcast, this was the top story of the day. Also, the Colombian authorities seized the USEMB-issued cell phones from the accused US soldiers and tracked down phone calls that, allegedly, led to an additional 10,000 rounds. On the news footage they showed rooms full of ammo cans, both 9 mm and 5.56 mm, single and belt-fed (5.56 mm) filmed inside the actual home where they were seized. Then, they showed the footage of each US soldier being questioned and identifying them by name ("This is 'so and so' and this is 'so and so'). They also showed the USEMB-issued phones that were confiscated.

The thing is, however, that we don't know most of the facts. I once saw the Colombian Army resolve a fratricide incident inside of three hours of it occurring without collecting any evidence whatsoever. But, in any case, there is no happy ending for this; everyone involved looses.

[Smokin Joe]

Damn shame, on all accounts. True or not.

If it’s true: damn shame the individuals were collaborating.

If untrue: damn shame there names got dragged through the media (could ruin a career).

I know my Father "worked" on some ammo that was "confiscated" from the NVA, the ammo was later returned to the NVA through a double.

If this story and what my Father did parrellel each other, bad on the Colombian's.

[NousDefionsDoc]

It's not.

[BMT (RIP)]

Special Forces soldiers charged with arms sales

A staff and wire report
Two Fort Bragg Special Forces soldiers were arrested last week by Colombian police and accused of selling arms to far-right guerilla groups.

XXX and YYY, both assigned to the Bragg-based 7th Special Forces Group, were arrested Tuesday during a raid on a house in Carmen de Apicala, southwest of Bogotá. The town is near an air base where U.S. soldiers have been stationed.

U. S. Special Operations Command officials would not confirm the names or unit of the two Special Forces soldiers. They would only confirm that two Special Forces soldiers had been arrested and that the command is cooperating with the investigation.

XXX's father said the soldiers were assigned to 7th Group. XXX refused to speculate on what happened in Colombia, though.

The 7th Special Forces Group makes regular deployments to Colombia and other Latin American countries.

‘‘He is a very fine person. I don’t believe he has done anything wrong,” XXX said in a telephone interview today.

[Psywar1-0]

So could they be charged with "Material Support of a Terrorist Organization"? Or would that have to wait for them to get out of the Disiplinary Barracks for misappropriation of Govt property? Or would it be double jeporday?

All the above of course based on if they are found guilty of anything....

[QRQ 30]

So could they be charged with "Material Support of a Terrorist Organization"? Or would that have to wait for them to get out of the Disiplinary Barracks for misappropriation of Govt property? Or would it be double jeporday?

All the above of course based on if they are found guilty of anything....

Notice nothing has been posted for two weeks. It is apparent that this has gone behind closed doors. Let the Army and State Department sort it out. They may well have been following orders. :(

[Abu Jack]

Ive known one of the named individuals for years. I can't believe he would be involved in any skullduggery.

[QRQ 30]

Ive known one of the named individuals for years. I can't believe he would be involved in any skullduggery.

Zactly!! When I worked in Colombia/Venezuela we were under the control of the State Dept and not DoD. We don't know what really happened and probably never will. IMO Col North was caught up in a similar circumstance.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Article (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050524-114244-2068r.htm)

Drug war soldiers on, Colombia says


By Guy Taylor
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

MIAMI — A senior member of the Colombian military says two recent scandals involving the arrests of U.S. Army soldiers in suspected arms and cocaine smuggling plots are having no negative effect on joint U.S.-Colombian drug war efforts.

Mauricio Soto Gomez, comandante-general of the Colombian navy, said he believes the arrests of six soldiers — whom U.S. military officials say have been returned to the United States, but not yet charged with any crimes — are not indicative of a systematic problem.

"There are about 600 U.S. military people in Colombia. Two or three people don't represent the whole U.S. Army or U.S. Navy," the comandante said in a telephone interview. The incidents haven't affected ?our relations with the U.S. military,? he said.

Four U.S. soldiers were arrested in April on suspicion of trying to smuggle hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cocaine from Colombia to the United States on a military aircraft.

Two other soldiers were arrested this month on suspicion of trying to sell ammunition to anti-government paramilitary forces that the United States is training Colombian troops to fight against. The two men were reportedly found in possession of more than 30,000 rounds of ammunition in a Bogota apartment.

The incidents have drawn criticism from Colombian lawmakers seeking a congressional investigation. They also come at a sensitive time for Colombian President Alvaro Uribe, whose cooperation with the United States has been critical in the drug war.

The United States has contributed more than $3 billion to Colombia in addition to a group of Special Forces soldiers to help train Colombian troops. Mr. Uribe, who also faces an upcoming re-election campaign, has supported the U.S. involvement, as well as American efforts to ship Colombian drug lords to the United States for trial. More than 200 have been extradited since Colombia began allowing the process in 1997.

Top U.S. counternarcotics officials in Miami also downplay the scandals involving the U.S. soldiers. But the Defense Department has taken aggressive public steps to prevent any possible fallout with Colombia. Solid relations are essential to intelligence contributing to the increased cocaine seizures in recent years.

The Miami-based U.S. Southern Command oversees the military side of the war on Colombian cocaine. The command's head, Gen. Bantz J. Craddock, who traveled to Colombia two weeks ago, said investigations into the incidents will be ?thorough and complete? and that the military is reviewing its procedures in Colombia to prevent any future incidents.

A spokesman for Southern Command declined to provide any further comment on the scandals this week, beyond saying that the six soldiers are now back at their home bases in the United States.

DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and U.S. Coast Guard statistics show a steady increase over the past three years in the amount of cocaine being seized from illegal-drug smugglers in waters off the coasts of Colombia and Central America. The Coast Guard alone seized more than 240,000 pounds, worth upwards of $1.6 billion in street value last year.