View Full Version : Special operations bases may be consolidated in Spain
Sweetbriar
05-02-2005, 19:12
"Spain and the United States are this week likely to discuss U.S. plans to concentrate special operations and anti-terrorist units in Europe in a single base, possibly in Spain, the leading daily El Pais said Monday." link (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-820924.php)
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
I'm thinking it's a bad thing, but that's a feeling in my gut and I can't articulate why just yet.
"Spain and the United States are this week likely to discuss U.S. plans to concentrate special operations and anti-terrorist units in Europe in a single base...Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
I'm thinking it's a bad thing, but that's a feeling in my gut and I can't articulate why just yet.
from a geo-strategic point of view, it's a good thing...i'm not real sure about the reliability of the current Spanish government, but in Spain, there are no overflight concerns with deploying troops...most of the potential hot spots can be accessed without having to worry about France, Germany, Austria or any other European "ally"...besides, they have good wine in Spain...
Swindleous
05-02-2005, 21:35
besides, they have good wine in Spain...
Concur, and I believe further magnified by tapas.
Sweetbriar
05-03-2005, 04:13
Islamic terrorists were able to turn the country in a day with their pre-election bombings. Spain also has a long term native terrorist tradition (Basque separatists). Islam regards Spain as part of the Waqf and therefore deserving of special attention. It isn't so much that we are vulnerable as they are vulnerable - to whatever liberal European politics, native hot temper and a perceptive and motivated Islamofascist movement can combine to do.
If they change their minds further on some day to come, then we are faced with moving "Special Operations" to some other location, and the name alone is loaded with American imperialist connotations. (Special Ops needs to get out of the headlines and seriously under the radar again, but how to do that??) Perhaps hiding them in plain sight in multiple basings would keep them a little more difficult to pin down politically.
uboat509
05-03-2005, 10:50
I read an article in the Stars and Stripes a while back that said that 1/10 was going to be moved either to Rota or a base in Sicily which I cannot remember the name of. I won't be here when it happens so I did not pay that much attention but it sounds like they are leaning toward Rota.
SFC W
EX-Gold Falcon
05-03-2005, 16:20
Here's a crazy idea.
Seeing as though the US has begun to grow cozy with Libya again, why not there?!
After all, who would ever suspect Libya playing host to a US Spec-Ops base? Let's see, centrialized location, at least two important training climates (sea & sand) language and Pan-Arabic cultural immersion, etc.
Course the chances are super slim, nevertheless....
Though in the end, there are certainly worse places in the world to be stationed then Spain!
Question, does anyone honestly think that SOCOM could ever get "under the radar" again?
T.
NousDefionsDoc
05-03-2005, 17:05
Duty in Spain? I want back in!
Airbornelawyer
05-03-2005, 17:26
Given the growing threat of al-Qaida and affiliated Salafist groups in North Africa, and SOCEUR's role in the Pan-Sahel Initiative, clearly the most logical place is Nouakchott, Mauritania. Largest city in the Sahel, and there's already an Avenue Kennedy (right next to Avenue De Gaulle).
Pronounced "nwack-shot".
Given the growing threat of al-Qaida and affiliated Salafist groups in North Africa, and SOCEUR's role in the Pan-Sahel Initiative, clearly the most logical place is Nouakchott, Mauritania. Largest city in the Sahel, and there's already an Avenue Kennedy (right next to Avenue De Gaulle).
uh, you first...if memory serves me, Mauritania was one of SH's potential places of asylum/refuge...
uboat509
05-03-2005, 22:41
Given the growing threat of al-Qaida and affiliated Salafist groups in North Africa, and SOCEUR's role in the Pan-Sahel Initiative, clearly the most logical place is Nouakchott, Mauritania. Largest city in the Sahel, and there's already an Avenue Kennedy (right next to Avenue De Gaulle).
Pronounced "nwack-shot".
Thank you, no. TDY there would be bad enough but being stationed there would be a whole new level of suck.
SFC W
Jack Moroney (RIP)
05-04-2005, 08:51
This all pre-supposes that the EUCOM CDR seems to think that the GWOT is the only mission for SOF. While it might do great things for maintaining the joint aspect of SOF operations by having all the movers and shakers in one location I am not sure that it addresses the other requirements throughout EUCOM area of responsibility. Also SOFA might play a big role and the changing political climate in the whole area is of some concern. SF has cultural, area orientation, and other considerations that need to be brought into the equation. I would like to see what the overall assessement was that led that Marine to come to this conclusion.
Bottom line, I am not all that convinced that this is a good thing for operational requirement but it would be great duty assignment for the troops.
Jack Moroney-would rather see AOB/FOBs scattered throughout the AO
Airbornelawyer
05-04-2005, 10:10
It ain't about comfort levels. If it was they could just relocate to EuroDisney. :D
No one likes Nouakchott? How about Timbuktu, Mali? N'djamena, Chad? Djibouti?
Seriously, the proposed sites in both Spain and Italy may not be ideal, but appear to be better situated for Middle Eastern, African and European contingencies than the current installations in the UK and Germany. This applioes to both current GWOT-related contingencies and a range of potential contingencies. The main concerns seem to be politics - mainly Spain's reliability as an ally - and cost. I think Italy would be more expensive.
There is one place in Africa that comes to mind, though. That is Kenitra, Morocco. Formerly Port Lyautey, it was the site of a US Naval Air Station and port facility until 1977.
There is even some special operations history there. We seized Port Lyautey from the Vichy French in November 1942. The operation involved a US Navy destroyer, the USS Dallas, and a team of embarked commandos. In researching "An Army At Dawn", Rick Atkinson noted that no official history actually identifies the Army contingent, but some sources ID them as Rangers detached from Col. Darby's battalion. The OSS was also involved.
Port Lyautey is located inland on a bend of the Sebou River. The Dallas had to sail up a narrow channel, through enemy fire, and discharge its raiding force. The attached map, drawn by a sailor on the Dallas, shows the route and enemy disposition, and the attached aerial photograph, from the history of the 60th Regimental Combat Team, 9th Infantry Division, shows the terrain and airfield. The 60th Infantry had the mission of seizing Mehdia on the coast and attacking the Casbah, the old Portuguese-built fort guarding the river mouth.
From a description of the mission:The key to the African invasion was the airfield at Port-Lyautey, located 12 miles up the Sebou River from Mehdia. The field, the only concrete, all-weather strip in Morocco, would have to be captured, then stocked with high-octane gasoline, bombs and ammunition so that an American fighter group, catapulted from an escort carrier, could land and provide cover for bombers to be flown in from Gibraltar.
The first step would be to cut the wire net and boom which the Vichy French had installed to block the Sebou. After that, a pilot would be needed to guide two ships up the shallow, winding river. The first, the destroyer Dallas, would land a raider detachment at Port-Lyautey to help capture the airfield. Then a cargo vessel - identity still unknown - would steam up the river and deliver gasoline, bombs and ammunition. The OSS contacted a French resistance fighter, a retired merchant marine sailor named René Malevergne. He had already been active in spiriting out escaping Allied aircrews and in providing intelligence on Morocco's ports and coastline, and he was tapped to pilot the Dallas up the river. This was accomplished under heavy fire from shore batteries and machine guns, and despite various natural and man-made obstacles in the channel. After the soldiers and sailors seized the airfield, Malevergne was taken by jeep back to Mehdia, where he boarded the transport, the Contessa, a Honduran banana boat, and guided it up the channel. For his actions, Malevergne received the Silver Star (http://www.malevergne.free.fr/?p=silver_star5.jpg) and the Navy Cross (http://www.malevergne.free.fr/?p=navy_cross8.jpg).
After the area was secured, the 9th Infantry Division set up shop. Among visitors to the Port to entertain the troops was Martha Raye, so there's a tangential SF connection.
After the war, the US continued to use the base, eventually even bothering to ask the French for permission. In its early years, the base sucked. From a 1951 newspaper account:Conditions are so crowded that many enlisted men still sleep in tents with their feet literally in each other's faces. Morale, despite high elan, suffers because of almost complete lack of recreational facilities. Men molder nightly at such dives as Mama's and Jack's in Port Lyautey, or the vine-covered cottage in Rabat. The only real sport is golf, on a tiny course among the runways, midst jets roaring off to replace planes lost at sea. Actually, that reminds me of Incirlik. :rolleyes:
The base grew, though, and was used to facilitate the deployment of US Marines to Lebanon in 1958. Third pic below is the Base Administration Building in the 1960s and some aerial photos of the base at different points are here (http://www.portlyautey.com/AerialPhotographs.htm).
And if you want good training areas for urban operations in the Middle East and Africa, a few miles south of Kenitra is Salé, a sprawling urban area basically becoming a suburb of Rabat. This city was the main location for the filming of Black Hawk Down.
Links:
- An account (http://www.mane-event.com/dallas/dallas6.htm) of the operation from the history of the USS Dallas.
- Site (http://www.malevergne.free.fr/) dedicated to Malevergne.
- Website (http://www.portlyautey.com/) on Port Lyautey Naval Air Station