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rubberneck
04-20-2005, 16:33
Anyone have first hand experience with Wolf ammo? Good, bad or indifferent. Sportsmanguide.com is offering 1000 rounds of 230 grain 45 ACP for $124.95, which is $80 cheaper than I have seen anywhere else.

I have heard people refer to it as garbage and others as an acceptable practice round. I figured I have a much better shot of getting an informed opinion here than any where else on the net.

Thanks,

Pete

jatx
04-20-2005, 17:03
Accuracy of the 230 grain hardball was acceptable for short-range drills, but boy you had better be ready to clean your gun. It will get filthy from that stuff. Other than that, no compaints. Seemed to feed just fine in my Wilson Protector.

Roguish Lawyer
04-20-2005, 17:07
Don't buy that stuff until you hear from Air.177.

rubberneck
04-20-2005, 17:49
Don't buy that stuff until you hear from Air.177.

As far as advice or him having a better deal on ammo?

Roguish Lawyer
04-20-2005, 18:46
As far as advice or him having a better deal on ammo?

Advice. He has strong views on the subject.

rubberneck
04-20-2005, 18:48
Advice. He has strong views on the subject.

Why do I get the feeling he doesn't think highly of Wolf? :munchin

Peregrino
04-20-2005, 19:00
Spend the money on a Dillon 550B and load your own. You'll be a lot happier in the long run. Just my .02 - Peregrino

Ambush Master
04-20-2005, 19:01
We've shot quite a bit of it. In fact he shot it (9mm) when he went through Gunsite. It is kind of dirty, but it's reliable and "Policing Brass" is easy, just use a MAGNET !!!! Thing is, he deals with the general public everyday and hears lots of "Feedback" !!!!

The Reaper
04-20-2005, 19:40
I wouldn't fire it through anything I owned.

Compare your $80 per case savings to the cost of a new gun or a trip to the hospital.

Do you shoot that much ammo?

TR

rubberneck
04-20-2005, 19:57
Do you shoot that much ammo?

TR

I am trying to. Up until a year ago I mostly shot for fun (1-2 times a month) but nowdays I am shooting quite a bit of IDPA and my round count is getting up in the 2000-3000 rounds a month range depending on how busy I get with work. Right now I am spending $180 per one thousand which gets expensive after a while.

I probably should reload but I currently have space issues that would prohibit a progressive reloader and I don't have enough time to pump out enough rounds on a single stage.

I guess my best bet is to buy Winchester White Box and supplement that by buying a Marvel .22 conversion unit.

Ambush Master
04-20-2005, 21:14
Advice. He has strong views on the subject.


Don't hold your breath !! His comment was "It's not worth the Grief" !!
Count him OUT on expecting any responses !!!

bberkley
04-20-2005, 23:24
All that Russian ammo is crap. Berdan-primed, lacquer-coated steel cases, not to mention that the quality control isn't that great.

Get a press, reload your own. Or, buy some ammo by the case from www.ammoman.com.

12B4S
04-21-2005, 00:54
Sure, now this thread is started. I was at the range today, went through a box of Magtech .45 ACP 230 and a box of Wolf. I'll stay away from the Wolf ammo. Any thoughts on the Magtech?

Team Sergeant
04-21-2005, 09:25
Sure, now this thread is started. I was at the range today, went through a box of Magtech .45 ACP 230 and a box of Wolf. I'll stay away from the Wolf ammo. Any thoughts on the Magtech?

Yeah, go to WalMart and buy the Winchester Ammo.

Or do a little paperwork and purchase Black Hills ammo, they'll send it right to your doorstep by the case.

I've never heard of "Magtech" ammo and would never run it through my guns.

If you purchase cheap ammo expect cheap results.

TS

rubberneck
04-21-2005, 10:17
All that Russian ammo is crap. Berdan-primed, lacquer-coated steel cases, not to mention that the quality control isn't that great.

Get a press, reload your own. Or, buy some ammo by the case from www.ammoman.com.

Ammoman is here in NJ and last I heard he doesn't allow pickups and can't mail ammo in state. Natchez has pretty good prices.

bberkley
04-21-2005, 10:51
Ammoman is here in NJ and last I heard he doesn't allow pickups and can't mail ammo in state. Natchez has pretty good prices.

Thats to be expected from places like the Peoples Republik of New Jersey.

Team Sergeant is right about the Black Hills stuff. They make excellent ammo. Stay away from the Miwall stuff too. The best thing you can do is get a reloading press and do it yourself. I rarely buy factory ammo anymore, except in .223.

You can load .45 ACP brass until the cases split or you lose them. I've loaded thousands of rounds of 9mm and .40 S&W on my Dillon RL 550B. I don't save any money, but I can shoot a whole lot more for the same costs as buying ammo.

mumbleypeg
04-21-2005, 16:45
I have a Brother in Law that will occasionally come into town and ask to go shooting. I have been known to turn him loose with a Makarov and some wolf ammo.

I've shot Magtech, it's Brazilian, tends to run hot and is inconsistent. I've never bought any.

I have from time to time bought Sellier & Bellot and been pretty happy with it, but it's hard to beat the Winchester White box. Wal Mart usually has it at a fair price.

I have had good luck with new ammo from outdoormarksman/miwall, the reloads , however, have proven to be tempermental.

MAB32
04-21-2005, 19:07
FWIW, I am going with all of the other QP's on this and tell you to stay away from the stuff with one exception. That is unless you are going to shoot any of the ComBloc weapons such as the Type 56's, Mosin-Nagant's, Makarov's, Tokarev's, AK's, & SKS's., etc., etc. My experience is that if you shoot any of these weapons with Wolf ammo you have a good size margin of error so-to-speak if anything should go wrong. Again, just IMHO. :)

HOLLiS
05-05-2005, 13:59
The new wolf is ploymer coated. I was turned on to it from a Retired USMC Major, who competed in the Corps on 1911. He has very nice hand guns and use it. He also has a Dillion 550B.

I have used it in a UZI, Kimber, Springfield 1911, with plinking results. I also have 2 Dillion 550B and reload for about 36 calibers. I do know of a bad report by a reputable gun dealer, on Wolf failure to support damage done to a chamber reportedly by their ammo. IMHO, Hand loads by a compitant person are the best loads.

jbour13
05-05-2005, 14:30
I used to buy the 223 by the caseload. I won't even take it for free unless I can find a person to sell it too (with a full brief to them as to why I won't shoot it). Steel casings aren't good on steel parts. Brass is more forgiving and you can ream and deburr it quicker and easier than steel if you choose to reload it. I've never attempted to reload steel casings for fear of losing something important, like a hand eye, life, etc....

My .02!

Team Sergeant
05-06-2005, 11:23
The new wolf is ploymer coated. I was turned on to it from a Retired USMC Major, who competed in the Corps on 1911. He has very nice hand guns and use it. He also has a Dillion 550B.

I have used it in a UZI, Kimber, Springfield 1911, with plinking results. I also have 2 Dillion 550B and reload for about 36 calibers. I do know of a bad report by a reputable gun dealer, on Wolf failure to support damage done to a chamber reportedly by their ammo. IMHO, Hand loads by a compitant person are the best loads.


Hollis, read the forum rules.

Fill out your profile, that's if you wish to be a part of the discussion here.

For what it’s worth I will always value the opinion of a Special Forces soldier over that of a Marine Maj that once shot in a competition in 1911. Paper targets don’t shoot back, never have and never will.

Team Sergeant

QRQ 30
05-06-2005, 11:37
:D Marine Maj that once shot in a competition in 1911

HEHEHE!! I had the same thought. He must be an old MO FO. Maybe he shot "WOOF" ammo. :rolleyes:

HOLLiS
05-09-2005, 13:29
:D

HEHEHE!! I had the same thought. He must be an old MO FO. Maybe he shot "WOOF" ammo. :rolleyes:

LOL, Thanks for the laugh, Nothing wrong with being a old Mo Fo, it was a trip getting there...... Hope everyone does.

Tubbs
05-24-2005, 21:22
My friend and I (also a former Marine) do a lot of shooting. We go through about 1000-2000 rounds each, a month, not counting .22's. We were using Wolf for a while. Its fine for scratching an itch but I wouldn't use it for match ammo. We recently went halves on a Dillion progressive press. He knows more about reloading than I do so he actually bought it, but I believe it was the XL650. It cost us a little over $550 with dyes. Our first outing with it we did about 500 rounds in 2 hours. We know a reloader who owns the same press and he told us you can get up to 2000rnds in 4 hours or less on it.
We now go with Winchester (wal-mart special) for .45acp and .40S&W, but we still use Wolf for 9mm. At $88/1000rnds and on a youth counselors budget you can't go wrong. That's just my $0.02 though...
You could google Dillion Precision for more info on the press.

Cincinnatus
05-24-2005, 22:15
I heard through a buddy of mine that a buddy of his had an AK blow up shooting Wolf ammo recently. When he contacted the rifle's manufacturer (Global Trading) they told him they knew of four other AKs that had blown up shooting Wolf ammo. My buddy, who's actually writing a book for Paladin on the AK, contacted someone he knew in Russia who reported that Wolf does not produce to mil spec.

They were able to determine that the overpressure on the rifle was approximately three times what it should have been. That is that the load was actually more powerful than a proof load.

The above is as I remember it from my conversation w/ him late one evening recently and, as drink had been taken, may be off in some detail(s), but is accurate in broad strokes. Wolf has QC problems and, at least in 7.62x39, this has led to catastrophic failures.

QRQ 30
05-24-2005, 22:23
I heard through a buddy of mine that a buddy of his had an AK blow up shooting Wolf ammo recently. When he contacted the rifle's manufacturer (Global Trading) they told him they knew of four other AKs that had blown up shooting Wolf ammo.

Dayem. Still around after 35 years.

A SOG thing. :D

Tubbs
05-24-2005, 22:32
My friend and I have shot several thousand rounds of Wolf ammo through our AK's and we have never had any problems. That is not to say that they don't occur, but if the gun blew up I would think that it was not just the ammo. If anything Wolf tends to be underpowered.
Like I said. Not something you would want to go to a match with, but if you just shoot alot and are on a budget its a good option. I have heard that they are working on imroving quality control and that their ammo is getting steadily better.

Cincinnatus
05-24-2005, 23:04
"Dayem. Still around after 35 years.

A SOG thing. :D "

Bwwhhaahhaahhaa! That was actually the first thing that I thought of and suggested it to my bud, suggesting that maybe it had been deliberate - aimed perhaps at the Chechens, and had somehow slipped through and come to the US. His point though, was that Wolf is not made to Russkie milspec and not used by their military. It apparently is a QC issue.

Tubbs,

I understand. I've shot a bit of their ammo myself. I take this as a grade A source though, and in light of this won't shoot it any longer and question the judgement of anyone who will. The small savings just ain't worth the risk.

Tubbs
05-24-2005, 23:36
That's understandable.
How old was the incident though? I've heard from my friend that Wolf has made leaps and bounds in QC. Being as his life revolves around guns as much as Jenna Jameson's life revovles around porn I tend to take him as a reliable source of info.

Huey14
05-24-2005, 23:40
I understand Ms. Jamieson is now retired :D

Cincinnatus
05-24-2005, 23:53
Tubbs,

Just confirmed that all the incidents occurred in the last several weeks. Other details in my orginal post are correct.

Tubbs
05-25-2005, 13:23
I understand Ms. Jamieson is now retired :D

Only semi-retired. Since she got married she will only do girl on girl and lately she has been focusing more on directing so she start a family but still work in the industry. I think she also does osme product liscensing, other than porn stuff.

Tubbs
05-25-2005, 13:28
Tubbs,

Just confirmed that all the incidents occurred in the last several weeks. Other details in my orginal post are correct.

Good to go... I will deifnately put the wolf ammo on the sidelines for a bit. Thanks for the heads up. Does he know if the ammo was all from the same lot? We still have some Wolf ammo left and trying to get my friend to get rid of ammo is like trying to get an Iraqi to give away an MRE.

Huey14
05-25-2005, 17:01
Only semi-retired. Since she got married she will only do girl on girl and lately she has been focusing more on directing so she start a family but still work in the industry. I think she also does osme product liscensing, other than porn stuff.


:mad: :(

whit
07-04-2005, 10:34
My friend and I have shot several thousand rounds of Wolf ammo through our AK's and we have never had any problems. That is not to say that they don't occur, but if the gun blew up I would think that it was not just the ammo. If anything Wolf tends to be underpowered.
Like I said. Not something you would want to go to a match with, but if you just shoot alot and are on a budget its a good option. I have heard that they are working on imroving quality control and that their ammo is getting steadily better.


Here's the deal with steel-cased ammunition. Have a spare extractor handy.
The extractor materiel, tensioning, etc. was designed in most firearms to
utilize brass-cased ammunition. Steel cased ammo will (sometimes very quickly)
cause chipping and possibly even extractor breakage. You might have noticed the
HONKER extractor in the small AK bolt. Ditto for SKS, RPD, PKM, etc.
The Com-Bloc countries all use steel-cased ammo extensively, and the weapons
are designed around this fact.

When you start mixing the steel-cased stuff with the rather delicate extraction systems of Western design, trouble is on the horizen and sailing rapidly towards you.

1. How much did the gun cost?
2. How much does your yearly ammo expendature cost?
3. If 2 exceeds 1 you are doing something right! As my friend Al Barr (ex-FBI, SIG guy) sez: "You get good by being up to your a** in brass!"

Jeff over at Black Hills makes an excellent "Blue Box" line for practice. It is loaded in once-fired cases (as opposed to his Red Box line in new cases) at a substantial savings and it is fine ammunition for the price.
whit

SERPENT5XX
07-09-2005, 12:25
Gentlemen,

I have heard several stories of Wolf ammo causing problems but have never personally seen it happen.

Over the years I have seen: a box of American made of 9 mm. ammo with a round of .380 ammo mixed in (that was weird!), several rounds of American made ammo with no powder in the case and some Green -Tip military 5.56 ball that had deformed bullet tips.

I expect that eventually I will see some messed up Wolf.

Honestly I have shot quite a large volume of Wolf and have seen even more of it fired down range.

I usually stick to the 9mm Wolf out of my Glocks, SIG’s or my M9. The 7.62x39 out of my AK and a small amount of 5.56 from one of my M4 clones. I used to buy it in 5-10 case lots. It is no exaggeration to say I have shot in excess of 20,000 round of it out of my own guns in the last 3-4 years. So far (knock on wood) I have not seen any problems other than cleaning the gummy lacquer out of the chamber. I usually oil my guns fairly heavy when I am shooting Wolf and this seems to help keep the gummy stuff to a minimum.

When I went to the “Stans” before 9-11, we took 40,000 rounds of 7.62x39 and 27,000 rounds of 9x18 for use in a JCET. Watched all of it fired during training with no problems. Our Russian Terps found it amusing that we brought Russian ammo from the US to train in the FSU. We bought it because it was available in the right caliber, quantity and was the least expensive (always an issue on JCETS). I know Com-bloc guns are made for this ammo but if Wolf blew up as much as everyone claims I think we might have seen it in all those rounds fired.

Another interesting thing is Wolf actually uses Dillon Reloaders in their R&D. I watched a Russian news program about how the Russian Military Ordnance plants were making more ammo for export to the US than they made for the Russian Military. When they showed the workbench area in the lab there were a couple of Dillion 550's larger than life. Later I talked to one of my contacts at Dillion and they said they had heard the same thing from several other sources.

Bottom line: Use your own personal judgment. Would I shoot Wolf in my (collector guns) Les Baer, Colt Python or Kimber Warrior? Probably not, just due to the steel cases causing a slight premature wear. Will I continue to shoot 1,000’s of rounds in my (tool guns) SIG, Glock, and Beretta? Yes.

I do not have an axe to grind one way or the other, all I care about is putting as many rounds down range while training as possible. If I can shoot Wolf at $89 per 1,000 instead of brand X at $120, great. If that means my SIG lives for 30,000 rounds instead of 40,000 rounds, whatever. It all means more shooting.

I do like to reload but the most valuable resource I have is my time. So I while I will continue to reload for my 300 Win Mag, 308, 223, and 22-250 precision rifles, but for my tools I will shoot what provides the most training.

Thanks,

SERPENT5XX

catd11r
09-29-2005, 10:13
Good Day Gentleman, I've had exp. with Wolf ammo. and found it was very dirty, and accuracy at 100 yds wasn't good. I've bought some IMI from Wideners and was very happy with it. The caliber I was shooting was .223 and .308. Just my opinion. Thank You.

Doc
09-29-2005, 17:11
Or do a little paperwork and purchase Black Hills ammo, they'll send it right to your doorstep by the case.

TS

That's what I use and I like it. ;)

Thanks TS.