New Chairman of JCS

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/20/110956.shtml

BMT

[Roguish Lawyer]

GEN Pace, not unexpected. No comments from the peanut gallery? :munchin

[Dan]

He's not approved yet :munchin

[The Reaper]

GEN Pace, not unexpected. No comments from the peanut gallery? :munchin

My most likely candidate.

Do you consider me part of the peanut gallery?

TR

[Psywar1-0]

Perhaps the end of the SOUTHCOM CINC posting being the end of your career tradition?

[The Reaper]

Perhaps the end of the SOUTHCOM CINC posting being the end of your career tradition?

GENs Joulwan, McCaffrey and Clark didn't seem to be hurt too badly by it before him.

TR

[Roguish Lawyer]

Do you consider me part of the peanut gallery?

TR

LOL -- yes. I will concede that we have a pretty distinguished gallery here, however.

[Dan]

Gen Pace's acceptance speech from President Bush:

Commander-in-Chief of the Marines,

I thank you for you trust and faith in me to transform your previously known as DoD into the DoM (Department of Marines). I have a chart here to show the changes effect immediately.

You will notice that I have streamlined the DoM in a highly effective organization. As you can guess the Marines are the core of the DoM and will lead the DoM from today forward.

Under the DoM will be the Navy Corp (previous U.S. Navy) and the Army Corp (previously the U.S. Army). The Air Corp (previously U.S. Air Force) is now under the Army Corp.

There will be many changes for all forces. Marines quality of life will exponentially improve and all other forces will exponentially decrease. Effective immediately the haircut you see me with is relaxed grooming standards. All budgets for Corps under the DoM are cut in half and the excess budget savings will be funneled directly into the Marines, now known as the DoM. etc, etc, etc...

[SOGvet]

GENs Joulwan, McCaffrey and Clark didn't seem to be hurt too badly by it before him.

TR

McCaffery and Wes Clark turned out to be nuthin' but Clinton butt-boys. Ask some of the guys who worked directly for them about how they feel about 'em. "NOT TOO GOOD!..."

[The Reaper]

McCaffery and Wes Clark turned out to be nuthin' but Clinton butt-boys. Ask some of the guys who worked directly for them about how they feel about 'em. "NOT TOO GOOD!..."

Didn't say I liked them, or that they were good.

I just said that their tours as CINCSO didn't hurt them any.

TR

[Airbornelawyer]

GENs Joulwan, McCaffrey and Clark didn't seem to be hurt too badly by it before him.

TRGorman - retired
Galvin - SACEUR
Woerner - retired
Thurman - retired (health reasons)
Joulwan - SACEUR
McCaffrey - retired (then Director of ONDCP)
Clark - SACEUR
Wilhelm - retired
Pace - Vice CJCS and now CJCS

Not counting GEN Thurman, who had already held a four-star command (TRADOC) and delayed his retirement to take the job in the run-up to the war in Panama, it seems like the pattern is every other CINC retires, with the one in between becoming SACEUR, until GEN Pace. Of course, this is probably just a coincidence.
McCaffery and Wes Clark turned out to be nuthin' but Clinton butt-boys. Ask some of the guys who worked directly for them about how they feel about 'em. "NOT TOO GOOD!..."Didn't say I liked them, or that they were good.

I just said that their tours as CINCSO didn't hurt them any.

TRLook at it this way: not counting Generals Galvin and Joulwan, being CINCSOUTH was generally a pre-retirement command (every CINCSOUTH before Gorman also retired from the post except for Andrew O'Meara, who became CINCUSAREUR). And with the end of the Cold War, as a military theater Southern Command wasn't considered as important as other theaters. So Pres. Clinton could reward Clark and McCaffrey with the job without stepping on too many toes (though as I recall Clark's promotion and posting ahead of a number of more senior officers did rub quite a few generals the wrong way). And then Clinton gives the job to a Marine. Twice.

So does any of this say anything about GEN Craddock's future? I honestly never heard of him when I was in the Army. He mainly held staff jobs during the time I was on active duty. He seems to have moved up rather rapidly, though. In mid-2002, he was a two star commanding the Big Red One. In August 2002, he gets a third star and a job as Rumsfeld's military assistant. Two years later, he gets a fourth star and SOUTHCOM. Where does he go next?

[tyrsnbdr]

[QUOTE=
Look at it this way: not counting Generals Galvin and Joulwan, being CINCSOUTH was generally a pre-retirement command.... Where does he go next?[/QUOTE]

How many 4 star billets are there? How do you laterally promote a General when most of the billets are for 3-4 years and you still have to promote the younger year groups? Would you like to go from a 4-star Command to a staff job (I can only think of ACJCS and the Asst Chief of staffs)? Granted there some CINC jobs that are politically better than others like SACUER. :munchin

I think almost any CINC job is the last step (highest step on the ladder) w/ no where to go but retirement and a career in TV or politics.

[Airbornelawyer]

How many 4 star billets are there?35

[Airbornelawyer]

There are, as noted, about 35 four star jobs at any one time, but only about six of them are typically second assignments: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; SACEUR; Army Chief of Staff; Air Force Chief of Staff; and Chief of Naval Operations.

Most unified combatant commands - the major multi-service commands like CENTCOM, TRANSCOM and SOCOM - are typically the first command for a 4-star, and often the last command as well. There are also a number of major commands within services that are 4-star billets, like the Army's TRADOC and FORSCOM, the Air Force's Air Combat Command, U.S. Air Force Europe (USAFE) and Pacific Air Forces (PACAF), and the Navy's Pacific Fleet. These too are typically the first and last command for a general or admiral, the pinnacle of his career.

CJCS is often a third assignment for a 4-star. The current CJCS, GEN Myers, was Vice Chairman and CINC USSPACECOM. The current Vice Chairman, GEN Pace, will have had three when he becomes CJCS. Before Myers, Generals Shelton, Shalikashvili and Powell were on their second assignment; before Powell, Admiral Crowe, Generals Vessey, Jones and Brown and Admiral Moorer were on their third.

Army chiefs typically are on their second command, and typically come out from an Army command rather than a joint one, although the current Army Chief of Staff, GEN Schoomaker, was previously CINCUSSOCOM. Shinseki was Vice Chief of Staff of the Army under Reimer. Reimer was CG, FORSCOM. Sullivan was Vice Chief before becoming Chief. Vuono was CG, TRADOC. Wickham was Vice Chief and before that CINC, UNC/Cdr, USFK/CG 8th US Army.

Air Force Chief of Staff is also a second job. John Jumper, the current chief, was previously Commander, Air Combat Command. Before him, Michael Ryan was Commander, USAFE/AFCENT; Ronald Fogleman was CINCUSTRANSCOM; Merrill McPeak was CINC, PACAF; Michael Dugan was Commander, USAFE/AFCENT. Three earlier chiefs - Twining, Brown and Jones - not only had prior 4-star commands but subsequent ones, becoming CJCS.

CNO is typically a second command for an Admiral, but not always (I'm not sure about current CNO Admiral Clark, but Admirals Kelso, Boorda and Johnson all had prior 4-star commands before becoming CNO).

Commandant of the Marine Corps is normally a first command for a 4-star.

SACEUR is routinely a second command. The current SACEUR, Gen. Jones, was previously Commandant of the Marine Corps. His predecessor, Gen. Ralston, had two prior billets - Commander, Air Combat Command and Vice Chairman, JCS. Ralston's two immediate predecessors, Clark and Joulwan, were previously CINCSOUTH. Joulwan's predecessor, GEN Shalikashvili, got SACEUR as his first 4-star command, but then became CJCS. Shali's predecessor was Galvin, another CINCSOUTH.

Before Galvin was Bernard Rogers, who had been CG, FORSCOM and Army Chief of Staff. He served two tours as SACEUR and was a 4-star for 13 years. Rogers took over from Al Haig, who had come out of retirement to be SACEUR and was previously Vice Chief of Staff of the Army (and White House Chief of Staff on retiring).

[Airbornelawyer]

Most unified combatant commands - the major multi-service commands like CENTCOM, TRANSCOM and SOCOM - are typically the first command for a 4-star, and often the last command as well.There are occasional exceptions, by the way. Bin Peay was Vice Chief of Staff of the Army before becoming CINCCENT. As Vice Chief, he was responsible for the "off-site agreement" that led to the elimination of Army Reserve combat units, including 11th and 12th Groups, in favor of the Guard.

[Airbornelawyer]

By the way, besides the Pace appointment, did anyone notice who was named as Vice Chairman? Three things of note:

1. Adm. Giambastiani succeeds Gen. Pace, who succeeded Gen. Myers. What are Adm. Giambastiani's chances of becoming CJCS himself in a few years?

2. The admiral succeeds a Marine general, whose immediate predecessors were two USAF generals. Before them were two admirals and before them another Air Force general. That takes you back to Goldwater-Nichols. There has never been an Army officer as Vice Chairman, although during most of that period there was an Army officer as Chairman. With Myers' elevation, the Army was frozen out. With Pace's and Giambastiani's elevations, the Army continues to be frozen out.

3. Before getting his fourth star and appointment as Commander, U.S. Joint Forces Command, Adm. Giambastiani was military assistant to Donald Rumsfeld. Giambastiani's successor was Bantz Craddock, whose rapid advance I mentioned above. That is probably good news for Vice Admiral James G. Stavridis (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/people/flags/biographies/stavridisj.html), Craddock's successor as Rumsfeld's assistant.

[tyrsnbdr]

RL this is great info. I can verify your hunches w/ ADM Giambastiani. I have a friend who was the ADM's chief of protocol. She told me the ADM was on the phone w/ Rumsfeld at least 3 times a week. She also told me she could have gotten me a job on his staff. Probably would have made my career, but not what I want to do. I want to shoot bad guys in the face more than I want to be anyone important.

I do think GEN Pace does have the potential to do good work for the Army. He should take the focus off of the “bomb the bad guy’s into the Stone Age” mentality and focus on the ground forces. Only time will tell. :munchin

[Airbornelawyer]

AL :rolleyes:

Just sticking to the modern CINC era (and acknowledging that they aren't called CINCs anymore), it seems that rather than being a career-ender, SOUTHCOM is practically the only one with a future.

Since Goldwater-Nichols, three SOUTHCOM commanders have become SACEUR - Galvin, Joulwan and Clark - and one - Pace - became Vice Chairman of the JCS.

All CENTCOM commanders have gone into retirement after their tour in Tampa.

Pacific Command has mostly led to retirement:
- ADM William Crowe - CJCS
- ADM Ronald J. Hays - retired
- ADM Huntington Hardisty - retired
- ADM Charles R. Larson - Superintendent, USNA
- ADM Richard C. Macke - retired
- ADM Joseph W. Prueher - retired (then Ambassador to the PRC)
- ADM Dennis C. Blair - retired
- ADM Thomas B. Fargo - retired

Atlantic Command, later Joint Forces Command, has also mostly led to retirement:
- ADM Wesley L. McDonald - retired
- ADM Lee Baggett, Jr. - retired
- ADM Frank B. Kelso II - CNO
- ADM Leon A. Edney - retired
- ADM Paul D. Miller - retired
- GEN John J. Sheehan - retired
- ADM Harold W. Gehman, Jr. - retired
- GEN William F. Kernan - retired
- ADM Giambastiani - VCJCS (designate)

European Command is also SACEUR and is usually a second command. It should be noted that Atlantic Command was also SACLANT, and some of the admirals above had previous 4-star assignments.

Generally, it's the same for the thematic commands as for the regional commands. All USSOCOM commanders went into retirement except GEN Shelton (while GEN Schoomaker was recalled to active duty). GEN Fogleman is the only TRANSCOM commander I know of to have a follow-on assignment, and the same goes for GEN Myers and SPACECOM.

[tyrsnbdr]

oops :eek: :eek: I'm doing push-ups right after I type this for being dumb. Not to metion paying attention... :(

Still good info.