Fobbits

[BMT (RIP)]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23710-2005Apr3.html

The Army will never change in some ways!!!!

BMT

[Peregrino]

The NTC/JRTC units have always had their own interpretation of reality. It's about time they went to a real war. There's discipline - then there's Chicken S**t.

[BMT (RIP)]

Damn P! I couldnot of said it better myself.

BMT

[Peregrino]

Hopefully the "Krasnovians" will finish their tour in the sandbox with an appreciation of the "One Army" concept - something they seem to have lost in their little make-believe world.

[The Reaper]

Man those Cav guys are REALLY retro....

"...many soldiers tuck them in to prevent the flaps from catching on the Strykers and to give them easier access to weapons such as knives and revolvers strapped to their thighs."

Who'da thunk we would be back to revolvers for sidearms again?

Course, the Washington Post toadie probably couldn't tell the diff.

Good reason to look elsewhere for news.

TR

[BMT (RIP)]

You mean the O's in the 11th ACR haven't started wearing Stetson's yet???
:munchin

BMT

[Peregrino]

Man those Cav guys are REALLY retro....

...many soldiers tuck them in to prevent the flaps from catching on the Strykers and to give them easier access to weapons such as knives and revolvers strapped to their thighs.

Who'da thunk we would be back to revolvers for sidearms again?

Course, the Washington Post toadie probably couldn't tell the diff.

Good reason to look elsewhere for news.

TR

Right on all counts! Wonder what their leadership would say to an SF Team that has modified their DCU shirts by sewing the lower pockets on the sleeves - so they can actually be used when wearing body armor. And then sacrilege - tucking their modified shirts into their pants because it makes sense. Would the resultant fit look more like rabies or epilepsy? As for the revolvers - give it to the news media for their usual accuracy. Though after sitting here counting rounds fired to determine ammo requirements for another project, the idea of the Cav showing up with SAA .45LC's is humorous. Some of the guys that've used the M9 during hostilities might even appreciate the swap. And - say what you want, Hadji might actually mess his drawers looking down the barrel of Sam Colt's contribution to "equalizing personal relations". Course that Major that shot the LTC probably shouldn't be issued anything more lethal than a spitwad. :D Just my .02 - Peregrino

[Team Sergeant]

Damn P! I couldnot of said it better myself.

BMT

That's one of the funniest things I've heard yet!!!

Fobbits!


I'm sure every war had it's fobbits.....

We had a 1st SGT in SOCCENT during Desert Storm that was a fobbit. Hated my mustache and the fact I was sporting a Kuwaiti Flag on my uniform, and no rank..... fobbits, why didn't we think of that.... :rolleyes:

[Kyobanim]

I think those fobbits need their own pocket patch.

Hmmmmm . . .

[The Reaper]

I think those fobbits need their own pocket patch.

Hmmmmm . . .

I thought that is was the same as the REMF patch?

TR

[BMT (RIP)]

Would a FOBBIT also be consiidered a GARET TROOPER?

:D

BMT

[Weazle23]

Fobbits, I like it.

When I was there 1st Cav required eye protection as well as ear plugs for anyone leaving the FOB, even if they were staying in the IZ.

They didn't patrol some areas at night because "that's when we get shot at the most."

[lksteve]

The NTC/JRTC units have always had their own interpretation of reality.

i'd say it was more a separate reality, Carlos Casteneda style...

[NousDefionsDoc]

What is a leg Sergeant Major's job in a combat zone?

[Surgicalcric]

What is a leg Sergeant Major's job in a combat zone?

To interpret AR670-1 and correct those soldiers he feels is not strictly adhering to the "standard," from the security of the FOB, or so it would appear to this E-4. :munchin

Crip

[CommoGeek]

To interpret AR670-1 and correct those soldiers he feels is not strictly adhering to the "standard," from the security of the FOB, or so it would appear to this E-4. :munchin

Crip

That's the view from this side of the pond.

[NousDefionsDoc]

This is interesting. Where is the line between acceptable deviations and non? Who decides?

No head gear on the way to the messhall if just off patrol? Who decides how long is "just off"? How do the powers that be know? Should they not care?

No boots bloused? Does anybody here know when and why the boot blousing thing came into being in the first place?

do-rags ok?

Where's the line? Or is there no line?

[lksteve]

This is interesting. Where is the line between acceptable deviations and non? Who decides?

i'm a left-handed non-conformist who runs with scissors...but NDD has a point...i'm no big fan of CSMs with nothing better to do than dream up area beautification schemes...but there have to be standards...in Somalia, we went to chow with flak vest, k-pot, LCE and rifle...in uniform...without exception...whether i just got back from the wrong side of town and had been sniped at the whole way...we wore our battle-rattle to chow or we ate MREs...

of course the mess hall in Mogoville wasn't very nice, so it's not like wearing our gear detracted from the ambiance...

[Ghostrider]

Being in the round-out squadron for the 11th and now posted at NTC while they are in the real sandbox, I've seen first-hand some of the c.s. stuff they pull.

Alot of it stems from some issues that they (Regiment) has had with quality of soldiers that the recruiters have been sending. This in turn (imho) has required their leadership to institute greater levels of control that would be considered micro-management. I personally think alot of it is reactionary, but then again they are not my troopers.

I do know for a fact that even though my unit is "just the Guard", alot of the workers (MIL and CIV) here on post feel we've been doing everything better than the Regiment. I don't think that's because we're necessarily better....(well ok maybe a little :p ;) ), but rather, in my case, my troopers are more mature, have more (arguably) "outside the military" life experiences, and can thus adapt faster with less guidance.

Now having said all that I agree w/NDD, where do they draw the line? Is it once the unit gets back "inside the wire", after the debrief/AAR, when they go to the chow hall? "Normal" military discipline still must be enforced...but then again normal has always had a different interpretation here at NTC. :rolleyes:

Oh and btw, it's no longer pc for OPFOR to be called "Krasnovians", right now we are either AIF (Anti-Iraqi Forces...insurgents) or in the case of heavy rotations "Coronans". Hey don't ask me I just work here. :eek: But I do think Fobbits is hilarious.

[Pete]

And then sacrilege - tucking their modified shirts into their pants because it makes sense. :D Just my .02 - Peregrino

I have a team picture taken right before infil around 1977. Everybody on the team had their shirts tucked in. We rolled out of the back of a 130 doing a touch and go and didn't want anything catching on plane parts on our way out.

Bloused at the second eyelet on the boots? That's why I retired a SGM and didn't go for CSM. Better things to do with my time.

Pete

[Ghostrider]

from AR 670-1 dated 5 Sept. 2003 (I'm almost positive there is a more recent version, but in this one here is the reg on blousing boots):

Chapter 3-6 c. ......... When bloused, the trousers should not extend below the third eyelet from the top of the boot.

As we like to say in my troop when the mindless sharpshooting like this occurs..."Sound Buffoonery!" ;)

[Pete]

As we like to say in my troop when the mindless sharpshooting like this occurs..."Sound Buffoonery!" ;)

The trick to slinging regs back and forth is to be straight yourself. It is fun to square yourself away on all the sore points of the "big cheese" and lay back waiting for a prime chance for a little pay back. A very public "Ahhh, CSM, don't the FOB regs call for....?" is like a sharp knife in the back.

The more of a stuffed shirt they are the more fun it is to play. I was quite good at it in my day.

Pete

Ahh, the days of to wear or not to wear the lowly watch cap.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I have a team picture taken right before infil around 1977. Everybody on the team had their shirts tucked in. We rolled out of the back of a 130 doing a touch and go and didn't want anything catching on plane parts on our way out.

Bloused at the second eyelet on the boots? That's why I retired a SGM and didn't go for CSM. Better things to do with my time.

Pete
I'd love to see your picture if you're willing to post it.

[Pete]

i'm a left-handed non-conformist who runs with scissors...but NDD has a point...i'm no big fan of CSMs with nothing better to do than dream up area beautification schemes...but there have to be standards...


I'm not picking on you lksteve but rolling all the thoughts together plus adding a few of my own.

CSMs take a lot of heat for what they put out and enforce but I'd like to point out the relationship between the unit CO and the CSM. The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO. While the CO and CSM might have a drop down drag out fight behind closed doors, they present a unified front once the rest of the staff comes in for a meeting.

If the CSM is a real nut cracker and the CO is worth his salt he'll say "Hey CSM, the boys are getting a little tight, you need to ease up a bit." It also works the other way around.

I've found with 1SGs, Sergeants Major, Command Sergeants Major and Commanders that the biggest dick heads were also the ones most insecure in they positions and authority. If the command element is too uptight the troops well be also.

The troops I worked with would poke fun at me now and again and I took it in stride. I knew that every time I told them to hit the bricks they did and at a dead run. I also had the pleasure of working with two fine company commanders who thought just about the same way I did.

Police call, grass cutting and other stuff like that? If there is no contracted labor to do that then somebody has to. Now if I was a CSM over there then I think I'd have the Fobbits doing most of that stuff.

Just another 2 cents from me.

Pete

[lksteve]

I'm not picking on you lksteve but rolling all the thoughts together plus adding a few of my own.

CSMs take a lot of heat for what they put out and enforce but I'd like to point out the relationship between the unit CO and the CSM. The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO. While the CO and CSM might have a drop down drag out fight behind closed doors, they present a unified front once the rest of the staff comes in for a meeting.

true...some COs are a bit reluctant to confront a 1SG/SGM/CSM...some are more than willing to frustrate the NCO...some NCOs are more than willing to blow off the old man (not many), some are toadies...in my experience, most commanders want their right hand man to have a good deal of room to manuver...as a commander, i was perfectly willing to let the team sergeant/1SG handle the routine stuff while i spent time getting my ass chewed for my endearing personality and the fact that NCOs were running my unit (it used to happen nearly daily throughout my career)...it's not like i necessarily agreed with everything my right-hand man did, (although the argument could be made that i tacitly approved) but a little friction in that situation is a good thing, for the most part...

hell, pick on me if you have to... ;)

[NousDefionsDoc]

The CSM does nothing without the blessing of the CO.
Uh, ok. :D :)

Seriously, good points on both sides. In addition to what you guys said, I think part of it is they don't really know what to do, so they revert back to what they had success with last. Hence my question about the role of the CSM in combat.

What is he supposed to be doing?

[Pete]

Hence my question about the role of the CSM in combat.

What is he supposed to be doing?

The CSMs role in Combat? None.

That said his role should be, as the eyes and ears of the commander, special staff kinda' guy and all that, the head ass kicker in the FOB making sure all troops are taken care of and have what they need to do the job.

The CSM has the ability and power to cruise all areas of the command area and see whats going on. He talks to everyone he runs into and gets their take on things. Based on his experience he can throw out the nitpicking BS and focus on what is important to a well running unit.

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

And also all that leadership stuff in the book.

By doing the above he is able to handle the the house keeping and standards for his command with little grumbling from the ranks.

The relasionship between commanders and the senior NCO can have a big impact on a unit. Two good ones together make for a great unit. One bad/one good can keep a unit running. Having two bad ones is like a tooth extraction.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.

Pete.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Thanks Pete.

Any others have any thoughts?

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

The CSMs role in Combat? None.

That said his role should be, as the eyes and ears of the commander, special staff kinda' guy and all that, the head ass kicker in the FOB making sure all troops are taken care of and have what they need to do the job.

The CSM has the ability and power to cruise all areas of the command area and see whats going on. He talks to everyone he runs into and gets their take on things. Based on his experience he can throw out the nitpicking BS and focus on what is important to a well running unit.

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

And also all that leadership stuff in the book.

By doing the above he is able to handle the the house keeping and standards for his command with little grumbling from the ranks.

The relasionship between commanders and the senior NCO can have a big impact on a unit. Two good ones together make for a great unit. One bad/one good can keep a unit running. Having two bad ones is like a tooth extraction.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.

Pete.

I don't think that I can say it any better then Pete has said it here and other posts.

BTW: We didn't have CSMs in the Korean War ;)

[lksteve]

He should stand as an example of what all the troops wish to become as they rise in rank.

I think I'm up to a quarter now.


that rings true, regardless of rank...i think part of the rub is that he is the CSM of another unit, responsible for the FOB, while the young troops he's been correcting are of a different unit. the 11th ACR are the new guys in town, the Strykers have ground time...while the troops in his unit probably have respect for him from working with him, his referrent authority level is probably weak in the other unit...such is life...

i think you went past a quarter a long time ago.... ;)

[Pete]

...i think part of the rub is that he is the CSM of another unit, responsible for the FOB......such is life...

i think you went past a quarter a long time ago.... ;)


Such is life. Since they rotate units, the people come with them. When a new sheriff takes over the town new rules are posted at it's edge. When a new CO and CSM take over the responsibility for an FOB there will be changes. You just have to hope they do it in a constructive way.

I've found that most soldiers try to be on their best behavior around 1SGs and CSMs even when they are from a different unit. For some reason all 1SGs seem to have each others phone numbers ;) and CSMs all have lunch together :D . The lower ranking soldiers hate to have their names bounced around by either group.

I'd have gone CSM but in my opinion that would have been a step down from the best enlisted position in the Army.

Pete
Running out of Pepsi money now.

[lksteve]

For some reason all 1SGs seem to have each others phone numbers ;) and CSMs all have lunch together...

Running out of Pepsi money now.

that probably wasn't happening, hence the friction...

better stop before you start pissing away the beer money... :D

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Saturday, March 26, 2005

Either the beard goes, or I do . . .

One of the interesting quirks of Muslim culture generally, and Afghan culture specifically, and Pashtun culture even more specifically, is the emphasis on facial hair. A beard is a sign of manhood, and to be clean-shaven is considered effiminate, unmanly, and is more or less tantamount to an open admission of homosexuality (and not the older man-teenage boy kind, which is tacitly tolerated among the Pashtuns.)

The Hazara, an ethnic group in Afghanistan who are descendants of the Mongols who came there with Genghis Khan, had a terrible time under the Taliban partly because many of them couldn't grow beards. They were, by the way, excellent, fiercely loyal soldiers who didn't mind playing a little catch-up now that they were on the side that was on top.

All US soldiers are expected to be clean-shaven, according to AR 670-1, the army regulation covering uniforms and appearance. That created a bit of a problem, since working with the Pashtuns while clean-shaven was a lot like being an undercover cop trying to infiltrate a biker gang while wearing a pink tutu and a lacy top. The powers that be had therefore, reluctantly, grudgingly, and sorrowfully, authorized SF teams working with the Afghans to grow beards.

Of course, it being the Army and all, no way was there going to be a clean implementation of a policy that radical. AR 670-1 is the regulation most beloved of a certain kind of Sergeant Major and those who aspire to be a certain kind of Sergeant Major, and for them, allowing SF operators to grow beards was the biggest blow to their perception of what the Army should be since Clinton instituted the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Also, while the senior leadership of the special operations task force endorsed the policy, they were ambivalant about the results, as were many of their subordinates. Part of it was horror: Even though SF is known for pushing the envelope of uniform regulations, outright disregard for them came hard for people who had spent an entire career in a regimented environment.

Part of it was embarrassment: The rest of the Army was fighting the war and making time to shave every day, and I'm sure that there was some legitimate fear that many pointed comments would be made later about the troops with scruffy beards and no insignia on their uniforms. And part of it was simply envy: the senior leaders and support personnel were more or less stuck at Bagram airbase, managing and directing everything from the rear, while their juniors were out running around the countryside having the time of their lives. (More than once, I heard one of the rear echelon soldiers assigned to Bagram talking about how we were out there "living the myth."

It was usually delivered as the preface to a snide backhanded comment about how little we appreciated the hard work they were doing back there to support us, but you could hear the undercurrent of jealousy; we were, in fact, living the myth: running around with our native troops, operating Sua Sponte, with little or no direct supervision, killing or capturing terrorists and disrupting their operations - in other words, we were being "real Green Berets" in a way most SF hadn't gotten a chance to be since Vietnam - and we were wearing beards and pakool hats or baseball caps while we did it.)

It didn't usually matter while we were out at the various A-camps, firebases, and other installations in the countryside - unless a dignitary was visiting, or horror of horrors, a journalist was around with a photographer in tow. The rule was that we were not, repeat not, allowed to be photographed unless we were cleaned up.

Guidance on how to avoid that short of shooting at the press was not forthcoming. At one point, General Abizaid, basically the guy in charge of the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan, visited a nearby firebase. The word went out: anyone with a beard either shaved, or found a mission that required them to be out of the firebase for the duration of the his visit - and made sure that they didn't come home until after the general left. I've always wondered if a man who was smart enough to become the CENTCOM commander was really fooled by all this sleight of hand, or if he at least suspected that some few of his soldiers had lost their deft touch with a daily razor.

Where it really became an issue whenever some of us had to go back to Bagram for one reason or another. There were a series of compromises that attempted to balance the need for facial hair with the need to pretend that it wasn't happening, and, like most compromises, the outcome was usually worse than choosing either one of the alternatives. The facial hair policy was one of those things that led us to question the smarts of the senior leadership we had. Our feeling was that, if they agreed that having facial hair was a good thing for us, they should support and defend the policy, and take whatever heat that it generated, even to enduring snarky remarks from senior officers and Sergeants Major in other units.

And it was the right policy - much of the body language and cultural interaction of a Pashtun revolved around the beard. It wasn't unusual for a Pashtun who was trying to garner sympathy to stroke his own beard, then stroke the beard of the person to whom he was talking. Rubbing beards , or stroking the beard, was a common greeting between friends. It wasn't that we were going to fool anybody into thinking we were Afghan (although a surprising number of people assumed that we were Muslim once the beards had come in); it was that the beards, along with learning the customs and a little bit of the language, made the people that we had to talk to for cooperation or information more comfortable. In the end, it made a marked difference.

But, had the command come out and said "Look, we think that adhering to grooming regulations is more important than getting along culturally - now shave that damn beard off!" it would have been one thing. We would have thought that they were terribly shortsighted, narrowminded and out of touch with what was going on out in the field. But we wouldn't have thought they were a bunch of gibbering idiots. What they came up with, though, made us wonder. The beards were authorized, an exception to policy was authorized, but the senior SF leadership wanted to be able to pretend that it wasn't really happening. (Cont.)

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

(Cont.2)

Hence, a number of weird and arcane policies were instituted - the gist of which was, "Grow the beard, but don't let anyone in the army know that you've got one, or they might want one too." The problem that arose was, of course, that while it takes 10-15 minutes to shave a beard off (it actually is a more complicated process than I would have thought before I grew one), it takes at least a month to grow a decent one. And, it's a pretty itchy month at that. They're not bad once they're sufficiently long, but the growing in process is uncomfortable.


At first, the policy was simply not to go off Camp Vance (the main SF compound on Bagram) with a beard while in uniform. That one actually made sense, because you could be anybody in civilian clothes - and there were enough civilian contractors running around Bagram to make wearing jeans and a t-shirt plausible. That policy, however, apparently led to complaints that the SF guys out in the field got to wear civvies off of Camp Vance, and nobody else did - so we were told we couldn't wear civilian clothes off of the compound. That meant, in effect, that the one time in a month or six weeks we had an opportunity to use the (minimal) PX, or the Dragon mess hall that actually had much better food than did Camp Vance, we could either shave the beard or stay on the SF compound as if it were a leper colony.

Yes, I admit, we were probably bad soldiers over the issue - it wasn't an unlawful regulation, just stunningly stupid - but that had to have been the most quickly circumvented rule ever promulgated. On the other hand, one of the oldest chestnuts in the Army leadership book is "Never give an order that you know won't be obeyed" so I kinda have to ask "what were they thinking?" No-one that I know confined themselves to the compound - especially the guys who dipped and needed desperately to visit their only supply for Copenhagen whenever they got a chance.

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

Cont 3)

So came the next move in the little hirsute chess game we were playing - get in and get out quickly. Anyone on Camp Vance for more than 24 hours was required to shave. Now, nobody needed to be encouraged to get away from Bagram just as quickly as possible, but usually it wasn't possible to get anything done in a day. If you showed up for supplies or paperwork one day, you'd always be short a signature or a truck until the next. The loophole there was the phrase "on Camp Vance."

There was an annex, known as the German compound (because German SF stayed there when they were in Afghanistan), so we stayed there and only ventured onto Vance when absolutely necessary (and preferably under cover of darkness.) That actually lasted several months before anyone caught on, so we considered it a success. After that was scotched and the policy extended to cover the German compound, we unilaterally reversed the original policy and began to wear civilian clothes when we went onto Camp Vance.

That led to us getting chewed out one night, but over the wrong thing. I was proudest of just how scruffy I had become when I found myself getting chewed out by one of the camp guards, because civilian contractors such as myself weren't allowed onto Camp Vance "without a work order." Of course, I smoothed things over by telling him that it wouldn't happen again - I was just there to pick up a few tools we had left behind.

The "I'm not really in the Army, even though I'm carrying a gun" strategy actually worked for us more than once. A few of us from my team found ourselves in Kandahar on a temporary assignment. We had been attached to an SF team that had the horrible misfortune to have been stuck on Bagram for the entire deployment. This team was working on a mission in conjunction with a SEAL platoon, and we were down there to help out. All of us - SF, SEALs and some support guys - found ourselves living in the SF compound on Kandahar for almost a week.

The SEAL platoon was newly arrived in country, and the SF team had been stuck on Bagram, so only the three of us from our team had beards, and we were going right back out into the countryside when we got done at Kandahar. The Kandahar SF compound, however, had almost the same byzantine facial hair policies that existed on Bagram, so by rights, we should have shaved the first night we got in. We dodged it by staying in civilian clothes whenever we weren't actually training, which led most of the army guys assigned to the compound to assume that we were either civilian support specialists or Navy intel weenies (even less military than the civilians, in their opinion.)

I didn't realize how firmly the assumption that we were navy guys had taken hold until late one night after we returned from a training exercise. We had missed supper because we were out training. That wasn't a problem, since we were told that we'd have hot chow waiting for us when we got back in. I thought that was remarkably civilized - missing chow for training usually means getting thrown a box of MREs as a substitute. When we got told "hot chow would be waiting", we thought it was being set up just for us. What they actually meant, it turns out, was that there was a late night meal laid on every night at 2300 (11pm, actually, since I'm in the National Guard), and we were welcome to join in. We got back a little bit after 10pm, stowed our gear and headed over to the mess hall. Dan and I were a little behind everyone else, since we stopped to change back into civvies before heading over.

One of the guys comes back around the corner, and tells everyone the main door's locked. Not a problem: we checked the back door and it was open. They probably had the front door locked to keep other people from rogueing our chow. Once inside, we found a pretty nice supper laid out, and proceeded to tuck in.

Probably around 10:40pm or so, Dan and I finished up and headed back towards the tents. We'd made it maybe 20 feet from the messhall when we were confronted by the First Sergeant of the support company that, among other things, ran the messhall. "What the hell are you people doing?" Well, it seemed obvious to us, but it never pays to be rude to the guys that control the food: "We were eating - by the way, thanks for laying that on for us."

Well, that really set him off - we had broken into the chow hall to eat early, we had ignored the posted chow times, we had been very bad people indeed. I tried explaining that we had been told the chow was there for us, and we didn't understand that we were supposed to wait until 2300 - hell, that was the first we knew the chow hall was open at 2300. That didn't make him any happier, but it did transfer his anger from us to the chain of command that had miscommunicated the chow message, and he made it clear that the intended to take it up with them right away.

He looks at us and snaps "Where's your master chief?" Now, a Master Chief is the senior enlisted rank in the navy - equivalent to a Sergeant Major. The proper thing to do would, of course, have been to set the record straight, explain to the First Sergeant that we were in the army, and suggest that he take up any complaint with the Major who was in charge of us. But, at the time, it seemed easier to say, as I did then "Y'know, I don't know right this second, but I can find him for you if you need him." The First Sergeant tells us that he'll find him later, and that was the last we ever heard about breaking and entering into his messhall.

As Dan and I were walking back to our tent, he leans over and whispers "That guy was in the Q course with me. He was on my team in Robin Sage." It turns out that Dan had gone through Special Forces training with the guy who was now First Sergeant of Support Company, and had been in close company with him (on the same team) for the last month of training. Dan recognized him right away, but the First Sergeant never saw through the unkempt hair, shaggy beard and scruffy clothes.

The great irony, of course, is that no-one outside of Camp Vance seemed to care. There were a number of military and civilian organizations with people running around Camp Vance, many of whom were not subject to uniform regulations. These ranged from government agencies with 3-letter acronyms (yes, that's right, the DMV had a branch office there) to the electricians, carpenters and plumbers provided by Brown and Root (a division of Halliburton, and actually known now as Kellogg, Brown and Root, or KBR, thus proving that everyone wants to be a 3-letter acronym.) In other words, once off of Camp Vance, nobody knew or cared why somebody was sporting a beard (oh, I'm sure that the odd conventional unit Sergeant Major here and there might suspect, but they weren't going to confront anybody over it, as long as they weren't wearing US Army insignia along with the facial hair - beards were covered by a de facto "don't ask, don't tell" policy of their very own. )

Of course, it could have been worse - a team that was there on the rotation before us got a temporary assignment to support a Civil Affairs unit working in Herat, in the Southwest. They knew going in that the assignment to civil affairs would last about six weeks, and they'd be right back out with their Afghan militia after that - so they decided not to shave their beards just to have to regrow them. The civil affairs guys had no problem with that decision, but one of the senior SF officers back at Bagram did. He told them to shave and stay clean-shaven until they finished their temporary assignment. (Even though the senior officer outranked anyone on the team, he couldn't technically order them to shave - he could just express a strong preference, with the unspoken promise of trouble later if the team defied his wishes; which is exactly what he did.)

Since Herat was halfway around the country, the senior officer wasn't able to actually check to see if the team was shaving. So, he hit upon what seemed to be a beautiful idea to enforce their compliance. Each team in Afghanistan was issued something called an SOI - Signal Operating Instructions - which contained all of the information (frequency lists, for instance) used for communication. There was a part of this particular SOI that was changed every week. The new information was sent to the teams by radio the day before it changed, so nobody would know what it would be until it arrived over the air. The team was instructed to take a team picture every week with the new SOI information held up on a sign in front of them, and to transmit it back to Bagram.

A frankly brilliant plan taking excellent advantage of the technological sophistication of the US military - applied, of course, not to winning the war with the Taliban, but to winning the war between Bagram and the deployed teams. Fortunately for this particular team, though, every really brilliant plan has a fatal flaw. Just as technology made it possible for Bagram to monitor the stubble level of a team across the country, so too did technology allow the team to "get over" on the situation.

This team had taken several team photos when they first arrived in country, while they were still clean-shaven, and, in these pictures, they were holding up a sign with their team number on it. It was a simple enough process to photoshop the SOI information onto the sign and send a new picture back to Bagram every week. And the cat and mouse game continued . .



posted by Special Forces Alpha Geek

Note: This story was sent to me by a friend! :munchin

[The Reaper]

TW:

Great story.

TR

[jbour13]

Thanks for sharing TW. To many laughs in there to point out. :D

[Weazle23]

I really enjoyed that, thanks for posting.

[Ambush Master]

From a "Days-gone-by" era, we expierenced some of the same frustrations, but probably MUCH LESS !!! When we traveled down to Nha Trang, wearing our "Recon Black Hats", we'd walk into the NCO Club and it was like oil on water. Everyone in there would move away from us. Even if you were by yourself, they were TERRIFIED of the C&C Recon people. (True, all of their guns were locked up and we were always "Packing" and that usually included MANY Hand Grenades !!) I recall being confronted by a SMAJ, but when I produced the "Documents", he left muttering to himself !! SOG was a WONDERFUL place to be, if you lived through it !!!!

Later.
Martin

[CommoGeek]

The policy mentioned in TW's posts has, from an outsider looking in prespective, been relaxed somewhat. Not all SF guys have beards, but they do exist. Additionally, certain attachments to SOF and even non-SOF types are allowed to have facial hair, on BAF and off. The trend that I've noticed is how much time do you spend at an FOB? If more time is spent "out there" or interacting with the locals then your beard is G2G.

In general, don't underestimate the pettiness found at BAF. The smaller FOBs, while austere, are a pleasure to be at. The folks running them may look at you funny but will bend over backwards to support your mission. At BAF, fill out this form on the SIPR, wait 2 days, call, email some more, get denied, call another office, resubmit, wash, rinse, repeat, etc. At most FOBs it is "What can I do to help?".

[tyrsnbdr]

This goes to show that different missions means different rules. We just need to understand how the other side of the house (conventional vs unconventional) works. Granted it's mostly jealously from the conventional units not going out and "living the myth." I say make corrections to soldiers within your unit unless they're doing something unsafe.