PDA

View Full Version : What Army am I in???


Eagle5US
04-04-2005, 00:44
Things strike me funny now and again-things struck me funny this evening at the Px and Commissary on Schofield Barracks.
Realizing that I work on a Marine Base all day, those bubbas are tight, all the time. I see it in every aspect of the base. Uniform standards, work ethic, respect and discipline. Their exchange has an ENFORCED dress code. Their shoppette has an ENFORCED dress code. I have SEEN it enforced-both by other marines as well as by the cashiers who refused to allow bubbas to pay for something and pointed (politely) to the sign with the standards.

Now-back to the point here....while I was at 10th MTN, there was this well known reg that was required reading and heeding... 670-1. This reg prohibited MALES from wearing earrings or other visable piercings, both on and off duty while on post.
excerpt
CH 1-14
c. Body piercing. When on any Army installation or other places under Army control, soldiers may not attach, affix, or display objects, articles, jewelry, or ornamentation to or through the skin while they are in uniform, in civilian
clothes on duty, or in civilian clothes off duty (this includes earrings for male soldiers). The only exception is for female soldiers, as indicated in paragraph 1–14d, below. (The term “skin” is not confined to external skin, but includes
the tongue, lips, inside the mouth, and other surfaces of the body not readily visible).

We don't get to Schofield much, but it is closer than the Navy exchange. Thing is, there were SO MANY military men (with families in tow) in both the Px and Commissary sporting earrings, browstuds, backward hats and pants hanging so 6 inches of boxer shorts were visable, I thought I was in some sort of college town mall.

You could easily say, "Did you say something to any of them?" My reply would be where to start??? I would have had to empty a full 2/3rds of both stores out into a formation in the parking lot and address the formation as a whole.

I mean, how could SOO MANY troopers be SOO BLATANTLY WRONG??? What the Hell??? And yes, it was pretty obvious who the service members were. My wife even commented on it and asked how they could get away with it here???.

I was very dissappointed in my service's showing tonight.

OK...rant off...

Eagle

Jack Moroney (RIP)
04-04-2005, 05:51
Perhaps it is my age but I have noticed over the years that there is a mind set in the Army in general that this is no longer a "profession of arms" but a job where more effort is expended in getting recruits in because of all the bennies service in the military can provide for them. Now this is not true of all units, but it sure as hell seems true for many of the CSS folks. While I have been out now since 93, my youngest son is still in and listening to his views and experiences seem to reinforce my opinions and your observations. I can't tell you exactly when it started to happen, but it started to creep in after VOLAR and it got to the point where the IG became a commander's adversary, military officers became risk adverse because of career implications, political correctness became the mantra of the day as Jody Calls went out of fashion, and we did stupid things like create "Pregnancy BATTLE dress uniforms" as if we were sending pregnant soldiers into combat. We started things like ethnic days in the dinning facilities and served ethnic foods to appease folks and honor their differences and diversity rather than focusing on team building and team work. Uniform and haircut standards where changed to celebrate differences and new "serious"medical problems like psuedofaliculitis allowed folks to modify appearance standards (funny that everyone seemed to shave on the days we went to the gas chambers to get a tight fit on their masks). Then we started to change PT standards and events. Training went from six days to five to rotating units in and out of "cycles" to making sure that no stayed after 1630 so that they could pursue other events in their life that were more important. Suddenly more emphasis went to creature comforts and ice cream in the field than training ammo and aircraft availablity. Computers came in and folks started to go nuts with computer simulations in lieu of actual hands on training where the "individual" could train as a member of a team or do team events without actually having to deal with interpersonal dynamics. We went from a "train as you are going to fight" mentality to a "train as you think you might, maybe, perhaps, well almost like to fight" mentality. No I don't think you are seeing things, what is going on is that the army has truly become an "Army of One" where every individual does his/her own thing which equates to one thing and one thing only and that is a breakdown of leadership. Just my rant.

Jack Moroney-remember the day that the IG called me because a troop was complaining that all our tactical marches were at night and were over 12 miles and cutting into his free time.

Spartan359
04-04-2005, 07:23
While I haven't been in the service as long as you two fine gentlemen I fully agree with your opinions. I'm getting ready to swap services (Navy to Army) and the same problems exist in the Navy. People on my ship are constantly being told to pull up their pants and get a belt or get a hair cut. Growing up, my father who was also in the service (Army) would have never allowed me to wear my clothes around my ass. I swear the indent on my forehead is from his damn Drill Sergeant hat. I personally think that most people haven't grown up right. Parents weren’t hard enough on their kids. Most of the guys on my ship have never been away from home so they just act like they are at home with their buddy's. Being in the "New" military I wish things were the old way. Seems odd coming from a 23 year old huh? Hell, in the Navy you talk to someone wrong and they try to bring you up on charges. "Oh.... I'm sorry your punk ass was late to work and I yelled at you for it". I'd rather take someone in a locked room and scuff his ass up than take him on the side and try to council him/her about responsibility. Example of the new Navy: Stress cards. If you can't make it through boot camp without whining I don’t want your ass next to me when the **** hits the fan. Ok end of my ranting. I'm gonna go back to the shadows and lurk. :D

Bill Harsey
04-04-2005, 08:19
You guys are describing a society wide wave.
I didn't know it splashed on the military too.

The Reaper
04-04-2005, 08:29
Jack Moroney-remember the day that the IG called me because a troop was complaining that all our tactical marches were at night and were over 12 miles and cutting into his free time.

If it was cutting into his free time, maybe he should have moved out faster.

There is nothing wrong with that, if you were doing it for everyone. The IG should have called only to verify it was being done uniformly, to standard, and safely. Did he hassle you about it?

I know a General Officer who wore an earring openly on post.

TR

brewmonkey
04-04-2005, 09:38
I saw it in my unit when I was leaving in 94. Like Jack pointed out the military seems to have gone from being a profession at arms to being a job. It is a place where guys who can't get a job flipping burgers are coming out in droves and bringing their baggage with them.

It was happening 10 years ago and now that those troops have made it in to the NCO ranks they "don't see a problem" with the new troops doing the same things they used to or still do.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
04-04-2005, 10:10
There is nothing wrong with that, if you were doing it for everyone. The IG should have called only to verify it was being done uniformly, to standard, and safely. Did he hassle you about it?


TR

He tried to until I reminded him that this was a light infantry unit and that if we were going to survive on the battle field we had to move at night and over great distances. He failed to see the logic in that because we were the only unit doing that. I "politely" told him that I could care less what other units did and added that not only were we doing 12 miles but we were going to increase it until we were doing 25 and if he would like he could walk with me. He backed off. I think that this was more of a personal problem with him. We had had a problem a few years back when were were doing the TAC thing in Ranger School for a bunch of ROTC cadets. I got the airborne platoon and he got the leg platoon. Things went downhill from there and resulted in a few attitude adjustment sessions.

Jack Moroney-scourge of the 1/23rd Infantry in Korea

The Reaper
04-04-2005, 10:21
You should have asked him to review his motto.

"Droit et Avant".

Looks like he forgot the first part.

TR

NousDefionsDoc
04-04-2005, 11:06
Perhaps it is my age but I have noticed over the years that there is a mind set in the Army in general that this is no longer a "profession of arms" but a job where more effort is expended in getting recruits in because of all the bennies service in the military can provide for them.
Exactly. Today, the standards in the PX. Tomorrow, mission refusal for a re-supply convoy - oh wait - that was YESTERDAY!