View Full Version : Baseball Steroids Hearings
Roguish Lawyer
03-17-2005, 21:43
I am watching them replayed on CSPAN while eating dinner. Anybody want to discuss? Should Congress act? Are any of these guys lying? :munchin
Didn't watch it. But to answer your questions...
"Are they Lying?".....You bet your A** they are. Come on. Have you seen early pics of Mcguire? One year he's kinda small, the next he's HUGE and bashing balls outta the park. That's what people pay to see. Home Runs. I love baseball, but watching it sometimes is about as much fun as say watching NDD go running with his dog and falling into an open Man Hole......wait a sec.....that is FUN. :D
Getting back to Home Runs. Remember all the hoopla a few years ago, with the HR race between Mcguire and Sosa? Yeah, I got involved in it. It was history in the making for Baseball fans. Who knew when we'd see it again? Silly us, that Mac's record would only last a few years, before another steroid freak would come along a break it.
The guys that played ball for the Love of The Game, and made the records, Hank Aaron, Roger Maries (sp), the Babe. They didn't have preformance enhancing drugs at their ready. NO !!! They broke/made their records from watching the "science" of the game.
"Should Congress get involved?"......if they do, they'd had better get into NFL and the NBA too. There are just as much, if not, more users in those two leauges than in Baseball. I think they're just doing it to show everyone how "concerened" they are after Jose's book came out. How many NFL types have said that steroids are flying around that leauge and Congress isn't calling in Lyle Alzado...oh wait he's dead...cause....too much steriod usage. You get my point.
Congress is just doing this for a "Feel good" study and because Baseball is "America's Past Time" and it looks good on camera, also too, things in Iraq are going relitivly good following the elections and they need some thing else to B*tch about and show the American taxpayer that they're doing something.
Bud Selig is an Assho*e. I hate that SOB. He said the other day, that if any player was found to be using steroids and has a record in Cooperstown (he was refering to Sosa, Maquire and Bonds) that those records will stay there. BULLS*IT !!!!!
That's rewarding them for doing something wrong. How does that look to our kids? You know....the ones that basaball is geared towards. You don't see "Father and Son" games sold in the NFL or NBA games. NO....IT'S BASEBALL !!!! Now Selig is telling our kids that it's okay to do something wrong and still be rewarded for it.
CommoGeek
03-18-2005, 02:12
Watching those clowns talk about steroids would be like watching strippers talk about fake boobs...
Hypocrites.
C'mon Diver, just because there is no Hockey you get all bitter.
First off, are there performance enhancing drugs being used in Baseball? Only on days that end with a "Y"...mondaY, tuesdaY, etc.
If you read Ball Four by Jim Bouton, he talks about "greenies" all the way back in the 50's and 60's. Players took them to get "up" for the game. They couldn't imagine playing without them. One player got all uptight because of a rain delay, and he was going to peak before the game even started.
McGwire broke the rookie HR record (49) while he was still a skinny kid. He was slender for the first few years of his MLB career.
Ken Griffey Jr. swats HR's whenever he wants (providing he is healthy) and nobody accused him of juicing. He's got stick arms, and great timing.
Steroids cannot provide hand/eye coordination or timing.
People overlook the fact that when these guys first show up in baseball, they are right out of highschool or college. Most are barely into their 20's and have not yet begun to fill out. Not many have the ability to focus their entire existence on nothing more than being a baseball player. Not with school, jobs, etc.
All of a sudden, they are a professional athlete. That means they get paid to play a sport, and work out. They are provided with trainers, docs, state-of-the-art equipment, and all the money they need to make sure that their sport is their primary concern.
If I am being paid for a couple of years to do nothing but work out and play baseball, and I am dilligent about it, I am going to show some results physically. It is natural.
I don't think for a second that Baseball players are doing everything "naturally". MLB has not regulated itself.
I think Congress is jumping the gun on this, and they are being caught up in publicity. I still don't see where there is a need for the Federal Government to get involved. Since MLB is exempt from the Sherman Anti-trust act, the Federal Government should perhaps keep an eye on things, but what is the goal of this investigation? What purpose is it going to serve? Are they really going to do anything, or are they just going to have hearings?
This whole thing does smack of the latest incarnation of "McCarthyism."
I want my elected officials to focus on things that more directly affect this Nation, not whether a bunch of guys who play a game for a living are using drugs, whether its andro or dyannabol.
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 07:45
Watching those clowns talk about steroids would be like watching strippers talk about fake boobs...
Hypocrites.
Excellent analogy.
I think there are other things Congress could be doing than getting involved in baseball (again).
Answer is simple, either piss test them and ban them and strip them of their records if they come up hot. Or let them do it.
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 11:05
The guys that played ball for the Love of The Game, and made the records, Hank Aaron, Roger Maries (sp), the Babe. They didn't have preformance enhancing drugs at their ready. NO !!! They broke/made their records from watching the "science" of the game.
Do you think the players today do not pay attention to the science of the game? They just have access to broader science, especially health sciences, for good and bad.
Given how much he tried to drag out his career when well past his prime, do you honestly think Babe Ruth would not have availed himself of any performance enhancers, legal or otherwise, he could get his hands on?
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 11:07
Answer is simple, either piss test them and ban them and strip them of their records if they come up hot. Or let them do it.
Piss tests, besides various other problems, do not detect things like HGH. Of course, players taking HGH probably might as well be taking that Dr. Whoever's Miracle Elixir from The Outlaw Josey Wales for all the good it will do them.
Roguish Lawyer
03-18-2005, 11:09
The face of every player on the panel except for Schilling was severely pockmarked. Coincidence, you think? :munchin
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 11:22
Piss tests, besides various other problems, do not detect things like HGH. Of course, players taking HGH probably might as well be taking that Dr. Whoever's Miracle Elixir from The Outlaw Josey Wales for all the good it will do them.
The issue I saw being discussed was not HGH, it was anabolic steroids. Atheletes do not take HGH alone, they take it conjunction with other things.
I don't care what they do, it's baseball's problem, not the Congress of the United States. We are at war, we don't need elected representatives worrying about a bunch of overpaid mama's boys. What's next, Senate hearings on corked bats and spit balls?
Congress is in this for the feel good aspect. It's a propoganda effort to ensure the American people that they have the best intrests in mind. They continually fail to connect with the people and this is an oppourtunistic moment to establish trust . They claim that MLB is encouraging steroid use in kids, directly or indirectly.
It's sad to say that yes it is a problem because it gives kids an excuse to use them on different accounts. They want to be bigger, better than the other kids on the block. Everyone on this forum can say that someone gives them inspriration. Be it yourself or another person that you look up to and emulate.
Role models have a responsibility, so do parents. Everyone is quick to point the finger and find fault in those that have no obligation to these kids. It's mostly the parents that want to find an excuse for lack of good parenting. "My kid commited suicide...", sorry for your loss. But how are Slammin' Sammy or the others responsible for your oversight into your kids personal life.
This society is on a downward slide because there are few that accept responsibility for their actions. Maybe someone affiliated with the MLB needs to state this fact, not attack the parents, but ask them what their roles were in their childs lives.
I can't wait to see how this witch hunt turns out. :munchin
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 11:38
The issue I saw being discussed was not HGH, it was anabolic steroids. Atheletes do not take HGH alone, they take it conjunction with other things.
I don't care what they do, it's baseball's problem, not the Congress of the United States. We are at war, we don't need elected representatives worrying about a bunch of overpaid mama's boys. What's next, Senate hearings on corked bats and spit balls?HGH was being discussed this morning.
I actually agree that these hearings are nothing more than political grandstanding.
However, I would point out that it is faulty logic to argue "We are at war, we don't need elected representatives worrying about ______." That same statement could apply to myriad issues, from the otherwise important (social security reform) to the ridiculous (these steroid hearings). The 1944 college football national championship was between Army and Navy; we were at war, why was our military worrying about football?
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 11:54
HGH was being discussed this morning.
I actually agree that these hearings are nothing more than political grandstanding.
However, I would point out that it is faulty logic to argue "We are at war, we don't need elected representatives worrying about ______." That same statement could apply to myriad issues, from the otherwise important (social security reform) to the ridiculous (these steroid hearings). The 1944 college football national championship was between Army and Navy; we were at war, why was our military worrying about football?
Jesus Christ on a Crutch!
1. The 1944 college football championship was not played by soldiers, it was played by cadets. I doubt very seriously the CofS of the Army gave a tinker's damn about the game. The 82nd and 101st certainly didn't stop fighting in the Ardennes. You think Congress held hearings to determine if there was any cheating going on?
2. The difference, as you so aptly stated, is "the ridiculous". Social security reform could very well impact our willingness to fund the military in the future, among other things.
3. Social security reform will impact millions of Americans for a long time to come. Not a few hundred mama's boys playing a game.
4. Did you vote for a representative to represent your interests and protect your well being or did you vote for a Commissioner of Baseball by proxy?
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 11:55
HGH - I didn't listen this morning. I found the whole thing stupid enough for my tastes yesterday.
CPTAUSRET
03-18-2005, 12:12
I don't care what they do, it's baseball's problem, not the Congress of the United States. We are at war, we don't need elected representatives worrying about a bunch of overpaid mama's boys. What's next, Senate hearings on corked bats and spit balls?
Well said!
I was getting ready to post something similar, but can't top that!
Terry
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 12:26
The 1944 college football championship was not played by soldiers, it was played by cadets. I doubt very seriously the CofS of the Army gave a tinker's damn about the game. The 82nd and 101st certainly didn't stop fighting in the Ardennes. You think Congress held hearings to determine if there was any cheating going on?Did they sew their own uniforms and pigskins and walk to the stadium, where they coached themselves to victory? The point is, the Army and the Navy somehow found the time and inclination to devote resources to playing football when the country was supposedly in a total war. I only cited this example because it was the first to come to mind and because I don't have access to the 1942-45 Congressional Records to make sure that my dad's elected representatives did not address anything unimportant.
As a kid, I had a set of 1937 encyclopedias, the only ones my family could afford. There were annual supplements from 1938 to 1946. I remember reading the various supplements, where they talked about Hollywood movies, golf tournaments and the like, and wondering how people could be wasting time on such frivolous things when there was this all-consuming world war going on.
Apparently, life goes on.
My point was simply this: if you think (as I do) that the steroid hearings were a frivolous waste of taxpayer money and an opportunity for Congressmen to grandstand (naturally "for the children"), then criticize it as such. The war is not relevant. If they were not having hearings on this, they wouldn't exactly have been having hearings on military matters.
On Tuesday, March 8, that particular committee held hearings on "Is Uncle Sam Still Passing the Buck? A 10-Year Retrospective on the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act of 1994." On Friday, March 11, the committee held hearings on "Getting the Lead Out: The Ongoing Quest for Safe Drinking Water in the Nation's Capital." On Wednesday, March 16, they held hearings on "Service Oriented Streamlining: Rethinking the Way GSA Does Business." Each of these is arguably more important than yesterday's "Restoring Faith in America's National Pastime" hearings, but not quite up there with winning the GWOT. The drinking water hearing is an example of something which should probably be a local, not Federal, matter.
But even for this committee, baseball vs. war is a false dichotomy. In the past two weeks, its subcommittees also addressed the training of Iraqi security forces; federal, state and local law enforcement cooperation; and strengthening travel reimbursement procedures for Army National Guard soldiers.
It just pisses me off to no end that congress gets to waste their time and our tax dollars on a damn game. That's all it boils down to, a game.
Who cares what these goons do to their bodies, I don't. So they make more money than everyone else. That puts perspective on the big picture in this country. It's easier on the masses to turn a blind eye on the important stuff and place importance on living vicariously through some testoterone laden monkey.
I'm gonna step off the soapbox before I cast gray matter into the audience from fuming so much.
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 12:30
Arguing with you is worse than being in a room with my ex-wife.
How many cases do you win because the other lawyer jumps out a window?
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 12:33
Arguing with you is worse than being in a room with my ex-wife.
How many cases do you win because the other lawyer jumps out a window?I don't argue cases. I do transactions - IPOs, mergers and the like.
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 12:37
Well, you should consider it. I know if I walked in to a court room and saw you sitting on the other side, I'd just go ahead and stick a gun in my mouth and save myself all the aggravation.
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 12:41
I'm going out for a while. I get to go pick up The Kid and then I'm going to ride around in Bogota traffic and relieve a little stress.
The Reaper
03-18-2005, 12:43
I'm going out for a while. I get to go pick up The Kid and then I'm going to ride around in Bogota traffic and relieve a little stress.
I like the first part, but do not see how the second part will work, unless you go park down by the office buildings and wait for the young ladies to come out and model their micro-faldas in the March breezes. :D
TR
Roguish Lawyer
03-18-2005, 12:45
Arguing with you is worse than being in a room with my ex-wife.
How many cases do you win because the other lawyer jumps out a window?
He wins concessions on deal points doing this. Probably by the thousands. There are many points in his deals, probably more points than in a GHWB speech. :D
The Reaper
03-18-2005, 12:53
He wins concessions on deal points doing this. Probably by the thousands. There are many points in his deals, probably more points than in a GHWB speech. :D
"A lawyer can steal more with a briefcase than a thousand men with guns?" :D
TR
CommoGeek
03-18-2005, 13:10
Well, you should consider it. I know if I walked in to a court room and saw you sitting on the other side, I'd just go ahead and stick a gun in my mouth and save myself all the aggravation.
Here's my quote of the year nominee.
NDD's quote is quite a compliment when you think about it.
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 13:54
I like the first part, but do not see how the second part will work, unless you go park down by the office buildings and wait for the young ladies to come out and model their micro-faldas in the March breezes. :D
TR
Even Bog traffic is less stressful than arguing with AL. :)
I still love you AL, in a non-Navy way of course.
The Reaper
03-18-2005, 13:55
Here's my quote of the year nominee.
NDD's quote is quite a compliment when you think about it.
Actually, unless NDD has really changed, he would shoot AL first. And anybody else on his list that day. :D
TR
NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 14:01
Actually, unless NDD has really changed, he would shoot AL first. And anybody else on his list that day. :D
TR
Well, there's always that I guess... :cool:
DunbarFC
03-18-2005, 15:12
It just pisses me off to no end that congress gets to waste their time and our tax dollars on a damn game. That's all it boils down to, a game.
Who cares what these goons do to their bodies, I don't. So they make more money than everyone else. That puts perspective on the big picture in this country. It's easier on the masses to turn a blind eye on the important stuff and place importance on living vicariously through some testoterone laden monkey.
I'm gonna step off the soapbox before I cast gray matter into the audience from fuming so much.
well there is the matter of the anti-trust exemption that baseball is granted by congress that does give them a bit of interest
CPTAUSRET
03-18-2005, 15:12
Well, there's always that I guess... :cool:
And...The day's not over!!
Airbornelawyer
03-18-2005, 16:04
well there is the matter of the anti-trust exemption that baseball is granted by congress that does give them a bit of interest
Except that the committee with jurisdiction over interstate commerce and thus Federal enforcement of antitrust laws is not the Committee on Government Reform, but the Energy and Commerce Committee, whose Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection held hearings last week, on March 10, 2005, on "Steroids in Sports: Cheating the System and Gambling Your Health" without any of the hype of yesterday's hearings.
http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/03102005hearing1452/hearing.htm
Look! Alot of great points made earlier. To me it's this simple. Illegal steroids are just that.... illegal! So why is Congress involved in this, outside of the legalities AL mentioned? SHOWWWWWWWWWWTIME!! Most those folks are legends in thier own minds.
The "National Pastime" of this country. Damn!! What a great spotlight for green vomit spewing politicians. They were eatin' that stuff up. To embarrass, to look important, powerful, caring.... yada yada yada. It was about them!!! "Hey America, look at us!! We care, see what we are doing?" Bull fuc**n' scheisse...... I'm thinkin' they have more important items on the table. Issues that WILL NOT get thier face and verbal diarrhea on TV.
Let the LEOs take care of it, infiltrate, set up stings, whatever. What about an underage kid drinking or doing drugs? Is Congress going to have hearings for every one of them? Or any of them? Hmmm, not a whole lot of limelight there, huh?
Question? Why are some of these guys hitting more home runs and more bulked up in thier 30's than they did/were in thier 20's??
Well, my .02............. Anyone remember Lyle Alzado?
Except that the committee with jurisdiction over interstate commerce and thus Federal enforcement of antitrust laws is not the Committee on Government Reform...
Tom Davis isn't done yet...
Article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/27/AR2005062701447.html)
Soros's Nats Bid Irks Republicans
Washington Post
Tuesday, June 28, 2005; E02
Major League Baseball hasn't narrowed the list of the eight bidders seeking to buy the Washington Nationals and some Republicans on Capitol Hill already are hinting at revoking the league's antitrust exemption if billionaire financier George Soros , an ardent critic of President Bush and supporter of liberal causes, buys the team.
"It's not necessarily smart business sense to have anybody who is so polarizing in the political world," Rep. John E. Sweeney (R-N.Y.) said. "That goes for anybody, but especially as it relates to Major League Baseball because it's one of the few businesses that get incredibly special treatment from Congress and the federal government."
Rep. Tom M. Davis III (R-Va.), who was a strong supporter of bringing a baseball team to Virginia, told Roll Call yesterday that "Major League Baseball understands the stakes" if Soros buys the team. "I don't think they want to get involved in a political fight."
Democrats weren't about to let the broadsides go unanswered.
"Why should politics have anything to do with who owns the team," Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) asked. "So Congress is going to get involved in every baseball ownership decision? Are they next going to worry about a manager they don't like? I've never seen anything as impotent as a congressman threatening the baseball exemption. It gets threatened half a dozen times a year, and our batting average threatening the exemption is zero."
Davis didn't return calls to his office, but spokesman Robert White said, "The point [Davis] was making was how it would look if Major League Baseball sells the hottest team in the market to a guy who spent more money than the gross domestic product of Colombia to legitimize drugs."
Davis chairs the Committee on Government Reform, which recently held high-profile hearings on steroid use in professional and amateur sports.
Soros has supported the legalization of some drugs as a way to combat their illegal abuse. A Soros spokesman, Michael Vachon , said the financier was out of the country and declined to comment.
Washington entrepreneur Jonathan Ledecky , who heads the bidding group that Soros joined, said in an e-mail: "America's pastime should be protected from the rhetoric of partisan politics. It's unfortunate that the negativism that permeates national politics today is infecting Major League Baseball and the Washington Nationals."
Baseball is interviewing lead members of the eight groups that have filed bids to buy the Nationals, who are owned by the league. Most of the bids are believed to range between $300 million and $400 million, with a couple exceeding $400 million, according to sources familiar with the sale process.
"We're going to act and make a decision in the best interest of the franchise and the best interests of the game," MLB spokesman Rich Levin said.
-- Thomas Heath
Maybe I just have a particularly mean attitude when it comes to a bunch of guys making millions of dollars to play a game (think about it this way: a guy who makes a million dollars a year in one of these leagues, which is small potatoes in the scheme of things, still ends up making the equivalent of about $500/hour, as if he were working forty hour weeks all year), but I really can't have any sympathy. If they want to pump themselves full of poison, well, that's a hazard of the profession. They chose it, and they're benefiting from it. I'm not going to cry about it.
Let's see them get a job as a framer, or a roughneck, or a plumber... or a soldier. Then they can whine about their salaries.