View Full Version : Double Dumb Stuff
Well now, engineers can go on and on explaining the difference between bank dirt, loose dirt and compacted dirt and just why it's important to know what you're dealing with.
But then again, they can disconnect their brain housing group and come up with some real stupid ideas.
The following took place back when I was much younger. Way back when Ft Irwin was a bunch of old buildings and not yet the NTC.
Our company was deployed to Ft Irwin for training and some of the teams had reported to the commander and SGM that they were having problems with the simulators they were using for training. We had a bunch of the training flares, whistlers and bangers. The teams said that the whistlers were going off as bangers.
The SGM, having great trust in my abilities, gave me a bunch of boxes of each and asked me to check them out. I employed my deductive reasoning and decided to cut to the chase. I took out a whistler, put on a pair of work gloves, took the whistler in my left hand and pulled the string with my right hand.. "BANG".
That little sucker was a banger. It blew open the thumb of my glove and my thumb was completely numb. I took the glove off and danced around a bit as I tried to suck the thumb and keep it over my head all at the same time. The feeling was starting to come back with a fury and that sucker hurt.
Of course this gave me another chance to highlight my intelligence. I immediately took off in search of my team medic. "Hey Doc. look at this". Of course he wanted a full explaination of how my thumb came to be in that state and by this time the medics from the other teams gathered around the two of us.
My thumb had now swollen up tight as a drum and was a dark purple all the way back to the hand. My medic had my hand and was turning it around as he conversed with his peers. They had quite the medical discussion going and I was having a hard time looking over their shoulders to see my hand.
They finally decided that they would drill through the nail with a red hot paper clip. A grasshopper stove, some pliers and a paper clip were quickly produced. They started in on the nail and I could smell something burning but I was still having a hard time getting a look at what they were doing. I finally felt a sharp pain as they all said "Cooool". With the exictment over the other medics wandered off and I could get a good look at my thumb as my medic cleaned it up. It was still deep purple and hurt but seemed to be a little smaller. Blood still oozed from the hole and would continue for the next few days.
It took that hole a great long time to work itself off the end of my thumbnail. I did a bunch of reflection during that time also.
Pete
This was also the trip of the "Great Jackrabbit Bar-B-Que". You'll have to read that story in the next "Tales from the Teamhouse" book
Anybody out there that can top this one?.
CPTAUSRET
03-09-2005, 15:05
Pete:
Can't top it, but enjoyed reading it.
Terry
I enjoyed it as well! Thanks Pete.
Trip_Wire (RIP)
03-09-2005, 16:06
As an 18C I really got a 'kick' out of that story! I can't top it!
I might share some Dumb A** stories from my LEO Bomb Technician days, in the future though! :rolleyes:
Pete: I was just wondering.In '69 and '70 several 12b's from Ft. Bragg were allowed by the Dep. of the Interior to blow several bridges which were due to be inundated by various dams. It was a rare occasion when they could really blow live targets. Were you involved in any of that? Anyone else?
It was a rare occasion when they could really blow live targets. Were you involved in any of that? Anyone else?
Those bridges were before my time. I did get to do a wood bridge during either a Bold Eagle or Solid Shield one year in the late 70s. It was a straight DA mission with no guards but (for the FTX) a quick reaction force. The Air Force 53 was to rocket us into the area, land behind a tree line and wait on the ground as we ran to the target, set the charges, wired it up, set off the charges and then run like hell back to the chopper and get out of Dodge.
Everything went as planned except the air crew had never seen a bridge blown so they wanted to watch. We jumped down into a ditch and the guys saw the chopper lift up over the top of the trees just as I turned the crank. WHAM, the charges went off. We took a quick look at the bridge, ran back to the chopper, which was now on the ground, and we got in.
Man, that was one pissed of air crew. Nobody told them what or how much we were taking in to do the mission with. The crew chief was raising hell with the team while I just patted my demo bag and leaned back in my seat with a smile :cool: .
Pete
Team Sergeant
03-09-2005, 21:38
LOL that was a good story! ;)
NousDefionsDoc
03-09-2005, 22:05
I took the glove off and danced around a bit as I tried to suck the thumb and keep it over my head all at the same time.
Well done!
TX of choice. SF Medic's Handbook. Chapter 3, Paragraph 9, p. 167
"Diagnosis and Treatment of Bashed Digits in the 'They told me, but I just had to see for myself' Patient Group". Study by Dr. Abu That'sGoingToLeaveAMark, MD, PhD, et al. 1960
I find the dancing particularly helpful. In fact, you could call it the "Critical Step". :)
Bill Harsey
03-10-2005, 09:47
LMAO here :D ...Great one Pete.
I've had the heated paperclip done to my thumb once by an ex Navy Doc but forgot the dancing part, that must be why it hurt so much.
Roguish Lawyer
03-10-2005, 09:51
LOL -- great story.
Great stories Pete. Can't top them, But....... I can add to the dumb stuff part. I think it was a Flintlock exercise at Hohenfels, not sure now. Doesn't matter, thing was we were out running around the woods, conducting training missions. One of these missions was to be able to use Demo in the form of shape charges. I prepared the charges with my senior demo SFC, and we headed for the target, which was some range out there. At any rate, we were called off and assigned a new mission. So, we took off to accomplish that one. Well, I had removed three non electric caps from thier box and put them in my top left pocket. Hours later we had pulled off the new mission and found a place hours later to hole up. Somewhere around 4AM my eyes shot wiiiiiiide open. While asleep, I guess my memory caught up with me. I remembered the caps in my top pocket. Funny crap runs through your mind. I actually felt around my chest checking for carnage, knowing damn well nothing happened, just seems like it should have. :eek: So, I for one am glad this is a SHORT, dull story. To those of you up and comming and (of course it should go without saying.........) DON"T sleep on blasting caps! :rolleyes:
Is this just for 18C stuff, seeing that it's in the 18C Forums, or can anyone post "Double Dumb" stuff that was supposed to go boom in here?
The Reaper
03-11-2005, 12:21
C-4 as issued in M-112 Charge Blocks weighs 1.25 lbs per block. The RE factor is 1.34.
The Demolition Charge M183 is used primarily in breaching obstacles or demolition of large structures where large charges are required (Satchel Charge). The charge assembly M183 consists of 16 block demolition charges M112, four priming assemblies and carrying case M85. Each Priming assembly consists of a five-foot length of detonating cord assembled with two detonating cord clips and capped at each end with a booster. The components of the assembly are issued in the carrying case. The demolition charge M112 is a rectangular block of Composition C-4 approximately 2 inches by 1.5 inches and 11 inches long, weighing 1.25 Lbs. When the charge is detonated, the explosive is converted into compressed gas. The gas exerts pressure in the form of a shock wave, which demolishes the target by cutting, breaching, or cratering.
TR
Is this just for 18C stuff, seeing that it's in the 18C Forums, or can anyone post "Double Dumb" stuff that was supposed to go boom in here?
I'll wait for the Mods or Admins to answer that one. :munchin
Team Sergeant
03-12-2005, 08:41
Is this just for 18C stuff, seeing that it's in the 18C Forums, or can anyone post "Double Dumb" stuff that was supposed to go boom in here?
These are 18C stories. Not all stories go boom. If your story is about an 18C you're cleared hot.
The Reaper
03-12-2005, 09:12
These are 18C stories. Not all stories go boom. If your story is about an 18C you're cleared hot.
Maybe LR1947 can tell us the log story. Or his frag story.
We had an 18C who was on an exercise at Avon Park, where the AF had given us some nice buildings to use as non-destructive targets.
When the team pulls up to surveil the target, they note that the front door is secured with a Series 200 lock.
They ask the 18C, "How much C-4 will that take to open?"
He ponders and says, in a studious manner, "Exactly one M-112 Charge Block."
As anyone here who has shot a charge knows, that is most definitely P squared for Plenty.
They prepare, place, and make the shot.
When the smoke clears, the lock is gone. As is the hasp. The door. The frame. And ten feet of AF wall, later determined to be valued at $10,000.
They enter the building, asnd the target, a safe containing documents, is there on a table.
Team leader yells, "We got another Series 200 lock, Mike."
He replies, "Got another M-112 Charge, coming up."
The evaluator gave them the key to the safe.
Funny thing is when the engineer showed up to work with me on Demo Committee, and that little story got out.
TR
I'm not sure of the spelling. It is pronounced "abatee". It is an obstruction made by falling trees across a road. The idea is to leave the tree attached to the trunk to make it even more difficult to clear.
During training in Germany our demo man was to make an abatis. I don't know the particulars of how he miscalculated. It had something to do with confusion in KG vs LB and/or blocks of TNT vs. blocks of C-4. I do know it wasn't an intentional "P" factor overcharge.
To make a long story short he made toothpicks instead of an abatis. We LOAO and from then on he was known as "The Toothpick Man".
BTW: the M5-A1 charge was a 2.5 lb. (1 kg) block of C-4.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-12-2005, 12:55
Speaking of abatis, after Lang Vei got hit with PT-76s the 5th Group seemed to go nuts and wanted everyone to have an anti-tank defense built into their camp defense plan. Now understand this , this was Mang Buk where there were no passable roads to anything heavier than a buffalo cart, many rivers and waterfalls, the highest peaks in SVN and the only way in or out was by air. But, logic not prevailing, we were directed to put in tank obtacles. So what the hell I thought, here is a good chance to do a little demo training for the little people so we found an old jungle cart trail, took the little guys out, and constructed a 200 yard long abatis of some of the biggest damn trees that the rainforest could produce. Everything went off like clock work and became a big damn party. All the women collected the orchids from the tree tops, the little kids chased down the various fauna that had made their homes in the trees and made a feast, and what was left over from those trees that splinted a little more than they should was carried off as fire wood. Three week later I brought a patrol back into the camp over this area and there was not a tree left in place. The little people had hacked everyone of them for firewood.
Jack Moroney
BMT (RIP)
03-12-2005, 15:18
While C-101A was TDY at Lopburi the Thai SF wanted an abatis to start and ambush on the convey.
Our best Demo man ( NOT THE CLOCK MAN) was tasked to set up the abatis. Checking his demo hand book, the hardest tree was used to compute the charge. he did a test shot using the oak tree data, teak tree was still standing after the test shot. He said if the formula for blowing an oak tree didn't work he would just add 10 lbs to each tree.
Day of the ambush training our man prepared his charges, when the covoy was sighted he blew the demo.
From that day on he was known as 10 lb "P".
BMT
C-4 as issued in M-112 Charge Blocks weighs 1.25 lbs per .
TR
back in the old days we had the M2 block (tetrytol) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M3 Block (C-2 & C-3) 2 1/4 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M5A1 Block (C-4) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11 3/4" and The M112 Block (C-4) 1 1/4 lbs, 1" x 2" x 11". That does not include the M118 and M186 roll.
We also had the M37 Demolition Charge Assembly that contained a total of 8 M5A1 blocks (4 per small bag) and two M15 priming assemblies. Total explosive wt 20 lbs. Two charges were packed in one wooden box with a total wt: 57 lbs.
This was replaced by the M183 Demolition Charge Assembly. Basicly the same thing as the M37 but with 16 M112 blocks and 4 priming assemblies.
Just some of the things we had to play with. C-3 was yellowish, oily and would stain your hands but was very similar to work with as C-2. I never saw the M2 block or any C-2, that I remember anyway.
Ya mean you only have the M112 to play with these days? Those M85 bags were a hot item to lift of the ranges.
Just a blast from the past from
Pete
The Reaper
03-12-2005, 17:59
back in the old days we had the M2 block (tetrytol) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M3 Block (C-2 & C-3) 2 1/4 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11"; The M5A1 Block (C-4) 2 1/2 lbs, 2" x 2" x 11 3/4" and The M112 Block (C-4) 1 1/4 lbs, 1" x 2" x 11". That does not include the M118 and M186 roll.
We also had the M37 Demolition Charge Assembly that contained a total of 8 M5A1 blocks (4 per small bag) and two M15 priming assemblies. Total explosive wt 20 lbs. Two charges were packed in one wooden box with a total wt: 57 lbs.
This was replaced by the M183 Demolition Charge Assembly. Basicly the same thing as the M37 but with 16 M112 blocks and 4 priming assemblies.
Just some of the things we had to play with. C-3 was yellowish, oily and would stain your hands but was very similar to work with as C-2. I never saw the M2 block or any C-2, that I remember anyway.
Ya mean you only have the M112 to play with these days? Those M85 bags were a hot item to lift of the ranges.
Just a blast from the past from
Pete
As COL M can verify, during Desert Shield/Desert Storm the 82nd cleaned out the Bragg ASP when it turns out they wanted to take more than the combat load they had packaged. So they took all mines, demo, Claymores, LAWs, grenades, ammo, and pretty much everything else not attached to the bunkers.
It looked like we would have to cancel an SFQC 18C class because we had no demo to train with.
Someone called TRADOC and got permission to conduct a scavenger hunt of all of the TRADOC installation ASPs on the East Coast.
We took or trusty 18' Ryder Rental trucks and drove from post to post takeing anything we could get and leaving a trail of 581s in our wake.
When we pulled the collection plate together back at Bragg, we had some of the oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired ammo you have ever seen.
We ran that class with WW II era blocks of TNT, C-2, C-3, M2 and M3 Blocks, and Korean War era mines. It all worked though, and that was good enough for Army training.
SF. Make it happen. Not just a job, a way of life.
I have not seen an M5A1 since then. When I was on Coleman recently, they had nothing but the new M-112s, with the taggants added.
Is there something wrong with the M83 bag? They worked pretty well too. :D
TR
When we pulled the collection plate together back at Bragg, we had some of the oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired ammo you have ever seen. TR
Easy now, Big Guy, Easy now :D
You have to remember SF spans just over 50 years. That "Oldest, most obscure, obsolete, expired" stuff was state of the art when some of the FOGs were running around :D . Heck, young kid that I am :rolleyes: , I even used the old Airborne Pocket Mine. Granted that was in the late 70s.
All-in-all anything that goes bomb will get the job done. It's all in how you use it.
Pete
I must admit I am a little surprised. I would think that today's demo men would at least be given a familiarization of our FOG type explosives. We were, even in cross training. I can almost visualize a display board with samples and descriptions of almost any explosive available, worldwide. I guess it has to do with orientation more to door kicking and bullet launching and less UW. I would hate to guess the number of tons of that "ancient stuff" that is still casched around the world. Most of it is pretty stable and probably useable.
JTFR: I may have trouble remembering where I laid my keys ten minutes ago, but my recollection of things 40 years ago is pretty accurate. ;)
Team Sergeant
03-12-2005, 20:40
We did a demo range on Oki, and every demo range there comes with a Marine Demo guy (safety).
We arrive with a ton of demo to train with and when the Marine shows up he’s got a couple of packages for us.
WWII satchel charges and the bags were “dripping.” When we asked what they were he told us they were WWII satchel charges and when I asked why they were “wet” he said he thought that might be “Nitro” and they should be safe, just don’t drop them. :rolleyes:
The other stuff was WWII “TOP SECRET” limpet mines. I wish I still had the instructions for placing them on enemy ships. They were pretty cool, I’m sure we have some better anti ship mines in the inventory now….. Yes, we placed all the packages on a stack of C-4 and with a thunderous “FIRE IN THE HOLE” turned the whole lot into gas.
The Def's back in my day.....
TNT........ 1LB
M-1 Chain (Tetrytol)............. 8 blocks to a chain- used as 1 charge or 8 different charges 2 1/2 LB blocks, for cutting steel or breaching concrete.
M-2 (Tetrytol)...... come seperately, but 8 blocks per haversack. Has capwells on both ends. 2 1/2 Lb blocks.
C3: moldable 2 1/2 Lb blocks
A) M3.... no capwells
B) M5.... has threaded capwells
C4: (M5A1) we all know.... 2 1/2 Lb blocks... 8 to a Haversack.
Hey! What about the M118 sheet? or the Comp B?
BTW, Those blocks of C4 were great in the fire barrel on those days on the range, when it was colder than a well digger's ass. :D
Which brings up another memory. Sorry for ramblin' on. Nah!! I'm not. Just for fun fill in time, We'd make little balls of C4. Light them on fire, take a rock and SMACKKK 'em. Started out tiny, like caps.... well, the size of the C4 balls grew, became a competion thing. We looked for rocks shaped like a rounded hill top, gradual contour lines at the bottom growing closer together toward the top. Had some pretty big bangs and fire flashes going on. The instructors stopped us after a few singed field jackets. Don't know why. None of us got knocked off our feet or anything. Instructors!!??!
We also trained with new and old Dynamite (in reference to TS's post) Sounds to me like those Marines were somewhat fortunate to had gotten those ancient, nitro sweating satchel charges as far as to you. :eek:
An after thought....... as I was trained.
The Abatis:
Trees should fall at a 45 degree angle to the road.
Charges placed 3 to 5 ft above the ground.
Taking down at least six. three on both sides.
For a length of at least 75 meters.
The fun stuff comes in (as posted earlier) figuring out the amount of explosive. External or internal formulas,the type tree and so on. The "P" factor is always a favorite for us, especially used with a ribbon charge.