View Full Version : Hole in Hole Accuracy
Smokin Joe
03-06-2005, 20:50
This video was shot by me.
The shooter is the Team Sergeant.
Range was approximately 5-6 meters.
Off the shelf USP .45, Winchester ammo.
The target was a 5.56 hole on a IPSC white target.
The objective was hole in hole accuracy with a 45acp.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/video/hole_in_hole_accuracy.wmv
Roguish Lawyer
03-06-2005, 20:55
Yep, I've seen him do it live. And more than twice in a row, but I guess you're dealing with bandwidth issues here. :lifter
Smokin Joe
03-06-2005, 20:59
I wanted to show clarity not a 20 sec video that was a Gib-a-byte. Maybe if I ever get my own web page I will put a longer video up that shows multiple shots in the same hole but the individual who hosted this did it out of good will and I did not want to impose upon his good good will. Also I think this demonstrates the point nicely. :D
Roguish Lawyer
03-06-2005, 21:02
Martin:
Thank you for making this available to us.
NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 21:12
Good shootin'.
For an old dude. :munchin
Team Sergeant
03-06-2005, 21:40
I'm jealous!!
OK, time to start training. ::glare::
I was confused why the holes went
big-hole --> small hole --> big hole
Because I thought it would be the same gun shooting.
First thought was maybe someone else with a .22 was shooting at the Team Sergeant's target trying to distract him while risking life and limb! :)
Then I looked at it again with audio turned up louder and heard Smokin' Joe say it was a .223 then back to a .45.
The 5.56 hole was there as an "aimpoint". Placed there 10 minutes before the two .45 rounds. (I was comfirming my EOTEC zero on my AR-15)
What you see in the video is two rounds of .45. Nothing more nothing less.
Team Sergeant
Roguish Lawyer
03-06-2005, 21:40
[]
Or you could have read the first post in this thread, which says that the target was a .223 hole already in the target.
Small hole --> big hole --> big hole gets ever-so-slightly bigger
:rolleyes: ;)
Team Sergeant
03-06-2005, 21:44
Martin:
Thank you for making this available to us.
Yes, Thank you Martin!
(We took it over!)
Team Sergeant
PS, Thanks Dan!
Something I have never seen. WOW!
TS, that is amazing.
Wow, that was eye-opening TS. I am amazed.
Thanks for the video gentlemen.
Kyobanim
03-07-2005, 05:53
Holy shit! Great shooting!
Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-07-2005, 06:40
TS, nice work.
Jack Moroney
Team Sergeant
03-07-2005, 08:24
This method works well to gain the students attention on the range. ;)
TS
P.S.
I teach LEO’s and US military (in my area) for free.
Goggles Pizano
03-07-2005, 12:20
Sure as hell got my attention! Outstanding shooting TS!
On occasion during training i put a black or white target round patch, used to plug the holes, in a IPSC target.
Slow fire, concentrating on the correct trigger pull and use of sights. Front sight clear, squeeze.
From 5-10 meters, it is a good training aid.
Nice to see a hole get ragged and just slightly bigger with following rounds.
...Shoot-N-See-
But for the price of those i can get a bunch of the old tape we use to patch the targets or spend the difference in ammo or components...
;)
Thats pretty darn good shooting! Granted its 90% the shooter that makes the accuracy. Obviously TS is a master!
But what type of 45 are you shooting? Is it stock?
Ambush Master
03-08-2005, 20:55
Or you could have read the first post in this thread, which says that the target was a .223 hole already in the target.
Small hole --> big hole --> big hole gets ever-so-slightly bigger
:rolleyes: ;)
Another point of Interest !!! NOTE that there are NO POWDER-BURNS !!!!! :D
For the time being, I'm Baaaacccckkkk!!!! :eek:
Martin
Team Sergeant
03-08-2005, 20:59
Thats pretty darn good shooting! Granted its 90% the shooter that makes the accuracy. Obviously TS is a master!
But what type of 45 are you shooting? Is it stock?
504PIR,
Yes it's a stock gun, a USP .45. stock ammo, not match.
Training tip, If your marksmanship instructor cannot at least have all the rounds touching at 20 feet find a new instructor.
I have done this with dozens of handguns, 99% of which I've never shot before I place holes through holes.
Team Sergeant
(Former 1-505 ABN INF!)
Thats pretty darn good shooting! Granted its 90% the shooter that makes the accuracy. Obviously TS is a master!
But what type of 45 are you shooting? Is it stock?
Not to take anything from the Team Sergeant (probably a stupid judgement call) just food for thought, the firearm is more accurate than the shooter.
It's safe to say with shooting like that the man's gotta be deadly with any thing that goes boom.
TS, I might make a pilgrimage to your AO just to pick-up some much needed pointers and experience.
Team Sergeant
03-08-2005, 21:09
Not to take anything from the Team Sergeant (probably a stupid judgement call) just food for thought, the firearm is more accurate than the shooter.
While that may be true in most cases there are those that can "outshoot" off the shelf weapons, hence the tricked out or race guns.
At 20 feet there is very little that will have an impact on the internal or external ballistics. At that range I would say it's 99% shooter, one percent weapon/ammo.
(If you're active duty then come on out and we'll shoot!)
TS
TS
Heading to Bragg around SEP for an assingment to 3rd GP. I'm a 96B by trade and might sneak some leave time when I go to BNCOC.
I started the pistol shooting on my own and developed some bad habits. My current orginazation sent me to ITI in West Point, VA prior to my last trip to IZ.
Any basic pointers to adhere to (unless already posted, if so I'll search and go do PT).
Smokin Joe
03-08-2005, 23:17
TS
Heading to Bragg around SEP for an assingment to 3rd GP. I'm a 96B by trade and might sneak some leave time when I go to BNCOC.
I started the pistol shooting on my own and developed some bad habits. My current orginazation sent me to ITI in West Point, VA prior to my last trip to IZ.
Any basic pointers to adhere to (unless already posted, if so I'll search and go do PT).
DRY FIRE!!!
Its what broke me of my bad habit.
The crazy thing is I didn't even know I had the bad habit until I went and shot with the Team Sergeant.
The only thing that I know about dry firing is the old dime/ washer drill with long guns.
Like everyone I have good and bad days, more bad than good, but the difference is not much. I'm picky.
Elaborate if you can or post a URL that you'd recommend that will save you some typing.
Thanks for the input.
Smokin Joe
03-09-2005, 03:42
The only thing that I know about dry firing is the old dime/ washer drill with long guns.
Like everyone I have good and bad days, more bad than good, but the difference is not much. I'm picky.
Elaborate if you can or post a URL that you'd recommend that will save you some typing.
Thanks for the input.
This was taken from Lightfighter.net
Here is some great dry fire practice. The 1.5 second drills are from the holster and the .5 second drills are from the low or contact ready.
(TS, this is the link I was telling you about)
http://www.personaldefensetraining.com/showpage.php?target=dryfire.php
Here is a good live fire drill
http://www.personaldefensetraining.com/showpage.php?target=dottorture.php
NousDefionsDoc
03-09-2005, 06:41
Thats pretty darn good shooting! Granted its 90% the shooter that makes the accuracy. Obviously TS is a master!
But what type of 45 are you shooting? Is it stock?
LOL - you think it's the gun?
No, its definitly not the gun.
Just always curious as to what top-notch shooters use. What one carries, may not be what someone else uses. Some are 1911 fans, Glocks or whatever.
90% of marksmanship is practice, technique and natural ability....but mostly practice.
swatsurgeon
03-09-2005, 08:40
I'm not sure what all of the fuss is about...I mean it's ONLY 2 shots through the same hole.......
For an impressive demo, go with TS and WATCH AND LEARN when he puts an entire magazine through the same hole and he doesn't take 30 or 45 seconds between shots, more like 4-6 seconds.
TRIGGER CONTROL, SIGHT ALIGNMENT....he preaches it, I practiced it with dry fire and now I'm proud to say I can do 2 shots (a small increase in hole size but definitely not 2 holes...hole incresed by 10-20%.....more practice and I'll have it down.
Shooting is a perishable skill and for anyone that does get to shoot nearly everyday, they can prove it to you....just give them time off ...it takes a warm up period to get back on track, yes it can be quick and the more previous xperience the faster it comes back.
BTW, to incapacitate a human life form, don't put holes in holes, spread them out to make more things bleed...just a public service announcement from your local trauma surgeon :D
Bill Harsey
03-09-2005, 08:44
FS,
Find the longest "inside your house" straight line. Buy a steel bullet trap and put it at one end. These work most of the time.
Shoot hundreds of rounds every morning before you go to work.
Not training is not an excuse.
Ignore roommates whining about noise.
Team Sergeant
03-09-2005, 09:15
Thank you SwatSurgeon. Glad to hear you’re punching holes through holes on a regular basis!
And a very good point was brought up by Swatsurgeon and Smokin Joe: dry fire.
I had an LEO tell me just yesterday that he does not get out much to shoot and what could he do to keep in shooting shape? Dry fire.
If I were an LEO I’d purchase a dozen snap caps and 4 extra mags. I’d use these mags and snap caps for daily dry fire drills. (Did see the catch word there, “daily”?)
Here’s a tip from Team Sergeant:
You can maintain 80% (yes eighty percent) of your shooting skill through dry firing.
TS
Had food surgery this morning so I should be able to knock out the familiarity portion while I'm dead on my arse for a day or so. Thanks to all for the pointers.
The Reaper
03-09-2005, 18:16
Had food surgery this morning so I should be able to knock out the familiarity portion while I'm dead on my arse for a day or so. Thanks to all for the pointers.
What sort of food surgery did you have? :munchin
TR
At least my posts are being read. I meant foot of course, I'll use the meds as my excuse! :D That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!!!!
NousDefionsDoc
03-09-2005, 19:19
Make sure the weapon is unloaded and somebody else checks it.
Sacamuelas
03-09-2005, 20:31
Make sure the weapon is unloaded and somebody else checks it.
" I'm the only one in here trained to safely handle a glock fotey.... BANG!!!!"
Oops... wrong thread. :D LOL
NousDefionsDoc
03-10-2005, 05:10
Shoot him in the ass with a Sims round once. He will then be more than happy to stop whatever he's doing to check your weapon for dry fire.
Roguish Lawyer
03-10-2005, 09:35
Vivo y pendejo.
NousDefionsDoc
03-10-2005, 15:56
Vivo y pendejo.
Indeed
(If you're active duty then come on out and we'll shoot!)
TS
TS,
Does that disclude RC people?
Team Sergeant
03-26-2005, 08:08
TS,
Does that disclude RC people?
You got a military ID card I'll teach you.
TS
You got a military ID card I'll teach you.
TS
Roger-