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NousDefionsDoc
03-01-2005, 20:52
for PT or H2H?

Smokin Joe
03-01-2005, 23:43
Started the Karambit about a month ago.

Also going back to my basics and studying my old Jujitsu (old School Samari style Jujitsu not BJJ) notebooks. I'm re-learning all that I have forgotten over the years.

Huey14
03-02-2005, 03:26
I'm doing basic stuff to get get fit/lose weight. Waiting on some new boots so I can do some proper bergen stuff (not by the standards here, mind LOL).


Oh, and I'm a Un-e-versity guy now, so I get a cheap gym. Let the uni mocking begin! :lifter :munchin


Edit to add: Probably taking up Kendo as well.

Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-02-2005, 06:43
After I was cut on last September I started an isometrics regimen with a sling rope and a cane that allowed me to use the hospital bed and the wheel chair for a gym. A couple of weeks ago I got enough strength back in my legs and was upgraded to Canadian Forearm Crutches ,that gave me a lot more mobility, and clearence from the doc to go downstairs into my workout area and have gotten back on the crossbow and was surprised at how quickly I was able to get back into an almost normal upper body routine. Still sort of screwed when it comes to doing anything that will give me a good aerobic workout as I am not really allowed to put much weight on the legs yet. While it may not sound new, it was renewing to be able to get back into a good routine after all this time.

Jack Moroney

504PIR
03-02-2005, 08:57
Started running using a Heart Rate Monitor. Also read Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot by John Parker Jr. Program is for runners & triathletes. Also Serious Training for the Endurance Athlete.

At first its VERY frustrating as you have to run below your 70% areboic ceiling, cause you are going SO FRICKING slow. But on the other side I believe I'm seeing improvement as I build up my base. Its a 3 month program and I will run it through. Let you know when I'm done

jatx
03-02-2005, 09:49
At first its VERY frustrating as you have to run below your 70% areboic ceiling, cause you are going SO FRICKING slow.

Stick with it! You have to go slow before you can go fast. :lifter

Razor
03-02-2005, 10:35
Rather than just doing boxing routines on the heavy bag, I've started incorporating some of the WWII combatives strikes into the workout.

lksteve
03-02-2005, 11:16
since retirement, i've become accustomed to a routine...i still do strength training three days a week...my back no longer allows me to run, so i hike two or three days a week...i work outside an average of 4-6 hours a day during the construction/surveying season and i do a little cross-country skiing, snow conditions permitting...

Martin
03-02-2005, 11:29
I'm increasing the intensity during endurance training.

They put up a boxing bag at the gym which I'm using for at least an hour every time I'm there, which is two to three times a week. I've been concentrating on good technique and am about to increase the tempo now. Directly after that I lift weights and have just shifted to lower weights and more repetitions. My stamina sucks.

Then four Tsu Shin Gen passes per week. One of them dedicated grappling, one dedicated sparring.

I'm considering adding a running pass per week. Would have prefered a ruck march, but I don't have a good ruck.

I rest on saturdays... but often go to the gym to perform some light and slow techniques on the bag, and stretch.

Martin
03-02-2005, 13:58
...but of course, that was before I got the brilliant idea to warm up the whole body at once with one of the machines at the gym. Apparently my back wasn't warmed up because I pulled something right in the middle of it.

Crap!

Razor
03-02-2005, 17:06
Martin, have you considered doing your strength routine first, followed by your bag work (reverse from what you do now)? That way, your muscles aren't already fatigued from the bag work and more receptive to gains from resistance work. Following this with the bag work can also help increase your stamina, as your trying to do power moves with tired muscles, which will fully engage more of your fibers and stress the 'reset' processes.

zeroalpha
03-02-2005, 17:25
I have a 25 year old girlfriend who is an aerobics instructor....

thats pretty much all the fitness training im doing currently. :-)

Dustin03
03-02-2005, 18:13
I completed the 5 week prep routine for SFAS last week. It was a little too easy i thought. along with that routine i lifted weights 6 days a week, with a lot of focus on my back, shoulders and legs. This week i started the 6 week Green Beret and Ranger workout found in The Special Ops Workout by Mike Mejia, and Stewart Smith. This one is more intense but i'm loving every bit of it.

As far as H2H, I have no clue, the air force doesnt have a need to teach this, so my plans right now are to complete SFAS, PLDC, and BAC, come back for a few months, which i will volunteer to go to Camp Shelby, MS to gain an 11B MOS, and learn SUT, and also find a good H2H instructor this way i will have some of the basics down before i leave for SFQC and the rest of the pipeline.

On a side note, this weekend is drill weekend, and my 6th month in unit, so I'm hopeing to get the GO for SFAS.

Roguish Lawyer
03-02-2005, 18:33
I have a 25 year old girlfriend who is an aerobics instructor....


We'll believe that when we have photographic evidence. :munchin

stanley_white
03-02-2005, 18:50
So I am still working on my push-ups since I am now doing a USAR APFT instead of a USMC one with pull-ups. It's annoying to undue eight or so years of doing one thing. Alas I must maintain my beginners mind if I wish to grow.

I have been doing the deck of cards routine with some time constraints added in. It's great to do in the evenings while decompressing from work / watching the news etc.

Take a deck of cards and treat it like you're playing Blackjack. Aces can be 1 or 11 but in my case they are 11.

Turn up a card and do that many push-ups.

Wait one minute.

Repeat.

Once you can get through the entire deck doing one minute between cards shorten the time between cards to 45 seconds, then 30 seconds, then 15 seconds etc.

This has been a great routine to help me build a base for my APFT.

The deck of cards can also be used for other exercises. When I was in Africa we would go through the deck with no rest between doing first card pull-ups, second card abs, third card push-ups, fourth card abs. It was challenging and fun.

Hooahman
03-02-2005, 19:04
I have everything squared away. but I need to shave about .30 off my run so I can Max it (And not have to Die trying) my last PT score was a 306. And I puked after. But I want to get my run time down by .30 before I leave in July.

Martin
03-03-2005, 12:47
Razor: No, I hadn't. I will try it out when the body has recuperated and I no longer walk like a starched suit.

There's another added benefit to your idea. In my limited experience, movements have become more automatic when performed correctly during (stress and) fatigue.

The reasoning for my setup was that I wanted to concentrate on endurance and I have read that whatever you wanted to be concentrating on should come first. The difference is that that note was in regard to two passes per day.


Regarding H2H, I also do visualization. Instead of completely concentrating on my movements, however, I hold the opponent in a vital role.

Martin
03-03-2005, 13:41
Video recording of, preferbly your own, sparring sessions can be interesting too.

Air.177
03-03-2005, 13:50
I started playing with Modern Arnis again, I have done this in the past, but have strayed recently.

NousDefionsDoc
03-04-2005, 22:52
Anybody PTing or Hand To Gland in body armor or weighted vests?

Huey14
03-05-2005, 04:02
Anybody PTing or Hand To Gland in body armor or weighted vests?


Does my gut count? :D

NousDefionsDoc
03-05-2005, 10:36
Rather than just doing boxing routines on the heavy bag, I've started incorporating some of the WWII combatives strikes into the workout.
What reference are you using?

NousDefionsDoc
03-05-2005, 10:37
http://tacticalathlete.com/index.htm

Martin
03-05-2005, 12:51
Anybody PTing or Hand To Gland in body armor or weighted vests?

We train H2H with gloves ("Combat", made by Fighter. Free fingers on inside, good for grappling and gripping), leg protection (just below the knee and down, with a flap over the foot and fastened below it), suspensor (dick cover), mouth guard.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to fight with a red man suit on, which is complete body armor.

How's your H2H training lined up?

jatx
03-05-2005, 13:04
After beginning to run again for the first time in many years, I found myself getting lots of knee/ankle/hip pains - not major strains but warning signs from all those little stabilizer muscles. To avoid injury, I've cut running back to 3x per week, and am now doing a 2000 meter fin swim 5x per week. The fins (I'm using Zoomers) seem to be increasing my flexibility and joint strength quickly. Plus, they really boost your heart rate in the water.

On top of that, I'm doing a two-day split on free weights - legs/back/biceps 2x per week, and chest/shoulders/tricpes 2x per week with a day of bodyweight-only strength training in between splits. The split program allows me to work opposing muscle groups on successive days. I was using the Kettlebells, but got bored working out by myself at home.

I have lost 20 lbs. in three months this way, and am getting close to my goal. :lifter

NousDefionsDoc
03-05-2005, 13:31
We train H2H with gloves ("Combat", made by Fighter. Free fingers on inside, good for grappling and gripping), leg protection (just below the knee and down, with a flap over the foot and fastened below it), suspensor (dick cover), mouth guard.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to fight with a red man suit on, which is complete body armor.

How's your H2H training lined up?

Red Man is not body armor.

Martin
03-06-2005, 06:58
:o

True, didn't think of that context.

Kyobanim
03-06-2005, 07:47
"hit conditioning". Take a 2" diameter wooden dowel, roll it up and down your shins, then bounce it on your shins, strike at the thighs front and side. Repeat process for the forearms. Next stand still with legs slightly apart and take kicks and strikes from a partner blocking only with forearms and shins.

This has taken the 'fear' out of contact for me allowing me to concentrait on the matter at hand. Fear of pain has been a problem for me in the past.

alphamale
03-06-2005, 09:03
Kyobanim that's impressive that you do that.

Stanely White, nifty card trick for pushups!

I have a piece of steel in my right foot that prevents me from keeping it in the standard flexed position during push-ups. It doesn't affect me in walking or biking but it does with pushups. Sometimes I just push-down with the top of my right-foot-toes scrunched up touching the floor, like when I am doing them just to stay awake during or before a looong con call, but that's too off-balance to be really effective. Or I use a low ottoman, but that makes it easier I think.

I've thought about making ankle-holders with nylon straps and Corian at exactly the right height.

FrontSight

NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 09:31
"hit conditioning". Take a 2" diameter wooden dowel, roll it up and down your shins, then bounce it on your shins, strike at the thighs front and side. Repeat process for the forearms. Next stand still with legs slightly apart and take kicks and strikes from a partner blocking only with forearms and shins.

This has taken the 'fear' out of contact for me allowing me to concentrait on the matter at hand. Fear of pain has been a problem for me in the past.


Tak or Mas?

NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 09:32
Anybody know the reason I asked about the body armor/weighted vests?

Kyobanim
03-06-2005, 09:43
Anybody know the reason I asked about the body armor/weighted vests?

Workout with your loadout. That will condition the body to what your 'normal' load would be. Also, wearing armor, webgear, ruck, etc makes your muscles react differently than without a load. It's a balance thing.

Tak or Mas? I don't understand the qustion?

NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 09:56
Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.

Your hit conditioning sounds very Tak Kubota or Mas Oyama

Kyobanim
03-06-2005, 10:04
Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.

Your hit conditioning sounds very Tak Kubota or Mas Oyama

:lifter do I win a prize? :D

Thanks for the lead. Yes, after a quick google, that's pretty much what it is. I have found in the past that when sparring I spent more time working defense than offense. that's not a way to win. I did that because of the pain factor. If I'm to compete at my level I needed to get past that and take a more aggressive attitude. Works so far.

NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 10:05
We had a guy on my Team once. Very pretty dude, nice tan - poster child in fact. Ran like a striped-assed gazelle in fag shorts and PF Flyers. Run for miles.

Then one day, the mission called for a sprint from Point A to Point B in kit. Bad planning, but it happens. About 1500 in a tropical environment. 100 pounds of HSLD Lightweight kit. He started first, but was the last to arrive. I even passed him (And slammed into him with a shoulder to let him know it was me :lifter ). And he couldn't do anything when he did arrive.


Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.

But I could be wrong - it has happened.

NousDefionsDoc
03-06-2005, 10:10
:lifter do I win a prize? :D

Thanks for the lead. Yes, after a quick google, that's pretty much what it is. I have found in the past that when sparring I spent more time working defense than offense. that's not a way to win. I did that because of the pain factor. If I'm to compete at my level I needed to get past that and take a more aggressive attitude. Works so far.

Excellent self-analysis! Very OODA.

Kyobanim
03-06-2005, 10:25
Your're never to old to learn something new

Roguish Lawyer
03-06-2005, 13:21
Exactly. Body armor is here to stay. I think it should be incorporated into PT just like the rucksack.

You have my fat, nonexpert, completely speculative endorsement for that recommendation. Congrats. ;)

Roguish Lawyer
03-06-2005, 14:40
Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.

But I could be wrong - it has happened.

How about 50-100 yard wind sprints in full kit? Over and over and over. Great conditioning for certain sports.

mffjm8509
03-06-2005, 14:58
Functional strength is the key. Not asthetic or any other type. If I was a TS looking at the Box, I think I would be concetrating on training my team to run 100 yards in full kit as opposed to 5 miles in shorts. Climbing low and high walls in full kit instead of gym biceps. Things like that.


If I had a nickel for every time I said that.................

SO, now that I am a TS and I am in the box......I have realized that I've done some things right and some things wrong in preparation for this type of environment.

Here are a few observations that I'll implement upon return to tailor my PT program to the current environment:

Functional movment in body armor/kit is whats important. Everybody wears all of their kit mounted to body armor now. Level IV Armor with everything (12 mags, 2-3 pistol mags, pistol cross mounted to chest, trauma kit, MBTR, Camelback). Just standing around for an hour in this configuration is taxing. Taking a knee is downright painful. Much time is spent inactive in tactical vehicles traveling from point to point. Rapidly deploying out of the vehicle is required to secure the area dismounted. The only way to get used to this is to do common activites in full kit. In addition to PT events, range time, and vehicle movements add time in the gear that prepare your body for periods of static inactivity wearing kit broken apart by rapid movements (dismounting and mounting vehicles).

Everyone must be able to pick someone up in full kit and carry him. Carry back to a vehcilce or longer distances to HLZ for CASEVAC. I normally do buddy carries as a finish to uphill sprints. 100-200 meters uphill 2-4 times following 8-10 sprints.

General fitness (running, swimming, biking, rucking) and strength training should be maintained for general conditioning.

Pullups in full kit (set up as you wear it).

Dedicate Gym time to endurance type lifting with as much weight as you can manage. I look toward 10 sets of 10 repititions of any major muscle group exercise. Bench for Chest, Pullups for back, Curls for Bi/tri, Military Press for shoulders, and squats and lunges for legs. You'll not get huge or enourmously strong, but you will get rapid strength and enduracne, (and sore as hell).

Not that it has anything to do with PT, but you need to be able to do all of this stuff under NODS too.

just my .02

mp

Razor
03-06-2005, 15:02
What reference are you using?

"Get Tough" and "Kill Or Get Killed". Waiting for the DVD format of McCann's stuff to be released.

Have any of you seen the draft version of the "new" PT FM that the Physical Fitness School put out a few years ago (before they took it off their website)? They changed the focus of PT to 'functional fitness', incorporating exercises that mimiced tasks soldiers could expect to perform in combat, and other exercises that strengthened supporting and stabilizing muscles. Its more equipment intensive than the current push-up/sit-up/run concept, but appears to be more directed towards what an infantryman would need.

Martin
03-08-2005, 04:07
"hit conditioning". Take a 2" diameter wooden dowel, roll it up and down your shins, then bounce it on your shins, strike at the thighs front and side. Repeat process for the forearms. Next stand still with legs slightly apart and take kicks and strikes from a partner blocking only with forearms and shins.

This has taken the 'fear' out of contact for me allowing me to concentrait on the matter at hand. Fear of pain has been a problem for me in the past.

Do you do this with thin protective gear to avoid osteitis, Sir?

Thank you.

Smokin Joe
03-08-2005, 05:09
Not that it has anything to do with PT, but you need to be able to do all of this stuff under NODS too.




I think that is a hell of a point, because I find if I run at night I will not push myself as hard for fear of triping on something that I didn't see. Now if I'm running after someone thats a different story I go all out, but for general conditioning I know that I hold back while running in no light.

NousDefionsDoc
03-08-2005, 06:48
Do you do this with thin protective gear to avoid osteitis, Sir?

Thank you.
No

Kyobanim
03-08-2005, 07:26
No

Ditto.

Protective gear would defeat the purpose. I do wear shin and forearm protection when in class or competition as it adds another level of comfort for the situation as well as the ability to take a harder hit. Besides, if I have to do this on the street I won't be able to say, "wait, I need to get my pads on."

Martin
03-08-2005, 08:08
Understood, though let me clarify that I only meant a very light level of protection, and not for easing the pain - but to avoid osteitis. I'm no wuss!!! ;)

It's what I've been told makes a big difference, but perhaps that injury is more related to some other factor. Thanks anyhow.

Kyobanim
03-08-2005, 08:50
I googled osteitis and don't see the connection, maybe I'm missing something. Got a layman definition for that? I don't see how hitting my shins could effect my pelvic area outside of making the boys tingle a little bit.

Ok, received definition in PM. Inflamation of any bone. That being the case. . .

I've read that hard exercise, impacts and stuff like that creates small fractures of the cells in the bones and when they heal they are stronger due to increased mass or something like that. (please correct me if I'm wrong). That being the case, conditioning should be making the bones stronger, if done properly and giving the body proper time to heal.

alphamale
03-17-2005, 00:52
Since the first of the year I've been seeing a strength trainer so I can bench press more, etc.

He just suggested anabolic steroids and talked about injections vs pills.

Kinda surprised me because he didn't seem to be that hard core.

:eek:

FrontSight

Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-17-2005, 05:51
Since the first of the year I've been seeing a strength trainer so I can bench press more, etc.

He just suggested anabolic steroids and talked about injections vs pills.

Kinda surprised me because he didn't seem to be that hard core.

:eek:

FrontSight

That's not a trainer that's a drug pusher. You need to dump that idiot now!!!

Jack Moroney

Sacamuelas
03-17-2005, 07:57
concur... what an ass! Dump the druggie and find a new training partner. There is absolutely no reason for you to be taking steroids.

Smokin Joe
03-17-2005, 08:03
Anybody in her AO who can assist this man to the door?

Seriously FS create fast distance and time from this piece of shit.

Bill Harsey
03-17-2005, 08:10
That's not a trainer that's a drug pusher. You need to dump that idiot now!!!

Jack Moroney
I concur.

Muscles can be built with combination of correct diet timed with your workouts.
If your trainer isn't on top of this, that's a second reason to dump his ass.

Roguish Lawyer
03-17-2005, 08:22
concur... what an ass! Dump the druggie and find a new training partner. There is absolutely no reason for you to be taking steroids.

Agreed, but I hope this doesn't mean you're going to forego the opportunity to photoshop us some pix of FS raging on steroids. :munchin

NousDefionsDoc
03-17-2005, 08:35
http://www.mikemahler.com/index.html

FS, not only does this guy not do steriods, He's a vegan!

Like they said, anybody that would talk about steriods is an idiot. Get away from him.

The Reaper
03-17-2005, 08:50
Concur.

Except at the very highest performance levels, steroids are a poor substitute for good workout techniques. They are especially stupid for females.

This guy was obviously incompetent in his strength conditioning skills, and wanted you to be impressed by quick results using his method, or he just wanted to be your dealer.

Shun him.

Or maybe he realized that you really wanted to be an XY, and was going to start you on your way by passing you the XY hormones.

TR

Bill Harsey
03-17-2005, 08:50
http://www.mikemahler.com/index.html

FS, not only does this guy not do steriods, He's a vegan!



:eek: holy crap! :eek:

Sacamuelas
03-17-2005, 09:37
This guy is a schmuck. You know one of the major reasons that women end up taking roids FS? Besides pro/olympic athletes, Drug dealers try to take advantage of women who experienced severe mental trauma. From an article I just read on female steroid uses. Why do women take them?
... A more serious issue is those women who are using because they feel like they need to protect themselves. Usually these women have experienced physical or sexual abuse whether in their childhood or in a recent relationship. Twice as many women do it because they have been raped and believe "that being bigger and stronger would discourage further attacks because men would find them either intimidating or unattractive http://www.nida.nih.gov ."
....Women using anabolic steroids justify the use by believing these drugs are necessary to win, the side effects, though sometimes undesirable, are acceptable to them and their friends, and a woman has every right to use them if she so pleases (Strauss et al.; 1985 ).

When you look at a female user, the natural curves have become very straight, her physique is very defined, and her breasts have atrophied, meaning they have decreased in size and have degenerated. Virilization is occurring, or she is developing male character traits. Her body is now retaining much more sodium, so her face and eyes can appear puffy. Over time, a woman will develop a male body type and experience male aging characteristics. A woman's voice deepens and can permanently become hoarse. She will develop excessive hair growth on her face, chest, back, and upper pubic area, but she also can experience male pattern baldness and have a receding hairline. A woman's skin becomes very coarse and acne appears. Hypertrophy, or enlargement, of her clitoris occurs as well. Most of these physical side effects are irreversible. You can't wake up one day and realize you want your old self back. Physically, anabolic steroids take captive almost everything that makes you a woman.
Nothing like having a hairy chested, deep voiced, acne riddled, balding female with male facial and body symmetry characteristics. But hey, after taking the juice... you might be as strong as a below average/nonathletic male. Yep, its worth the risks and side effects. :rolleyes:
Spend the money on lessons with the Team Sergeant instead of the drugs.

NousDefionsDoc
03-17-2005, 09:48
:eek: holy crap! :eek:
Yeah, he's an animal from everything I've heard. Very impressive.

Razor
03-17-2005, 09:52
Or maybe he realized that you really wanted to be an XY, and was going to start you on your way by passing you the XY hormones.

Looks like your secret is out, FS. :p

alphamale
03-17-2005, 12:10
While I rarely immediately reject anything out-of-hand (I did surf a website he suggested for 30 min.), odds are slim-to-none that I would decide to take something like that. I tried a cigarette at age 11 and decided that adults were dumb.

However, Mr. Harsey suggested that my proclivity for using multisyllabic words in my posts would morph to just grunting every now and then. Some might appreciate that :p .

Smokin Joe, changing locations will make it less likely I'll be able to continue using this trainer anyway. (but separately from that I got the message.)

Sacamuelas... OK.

TR, I actually prefer being a femme type. We get to adorn ourselves with jewelry, makeup and clothes, change our hair style and color at whim, be more emotional and have more fun. You men are just supposed to stand there and look tough.

The only unfair thing is that XYs are stronger. You are more free because of that.

FrontSight

Peregrino
03-17-2005, 13:55
The only unfair thing is that XYs are stronger. You are more free because of that. FrontSight

Maybe - But I've never seen an XY pick up the phone and have six XXs show up to help them move either. :lifter

Razor
03-17-2005, 14:09
The only unfair thing is that XYs are stronger. You are more free because of that.

I know plenty of XYs that are no more free than a fish in an aquarium; sure, they can swim around and explore their tank, maybe bully some of the weaker fish, but there are invisible walls stopping them from going farther, and they depend on someone else to provide their O2, feed them, clean their tank, and set their schedule. Freedom doesn't come from being physically strong--it mostly springs from mindset, self-confidence and determination.

That, and not having to sit down to pee.

NousDefionsDoc
03-17-2005, 14:18
I know plenty of XYs that are no more free than a fish in an aquarium; sure, they can swim around and explore their tank, maybe bully some of the weaker fish, but there are invisible walls stopping them from going farther, and they depend on someone else to provide their O2, feed them, clean their tank, and set their schedule. Freedom doesn't come from being physically strong--it mostly springs from mindset, self-confidence and determination.

That, and not having to sit down to pee.

Well said - on all counts. :)

Jack Moroney (RIP)
03-17-2005, 15:20
Maybe - But I've never seen an XY pick up the phone and have six XXs show up to help them move either. :lifter

Maybe it's your technique :D

alphamale
03-18-2005, 00:52
Freedom doesn't come from being physically strong--it mostly springs from mindset, self-confidence and determination.Agree. (Yes, don't pass out, I'm actually agreeing with you, because you included the word 'mostly'. ) Because mostly, people choose to be humane to each other. Then, "mindset, self-confidence and determination" can take primacy in defining how free you are.

The problem is when "mostly" doesn't cut it.

A related problem then is because occasionally "mostly" doesn't cut it, someone whom others would assume to be weaker will significantly restrict all their life activities, i.e., not go out alone at night to even the grocery store, or not go biking alone during the day.

Is that good SA or is that living in a cage. Who is less free then.

FrontSight

alphamale
03-18-2005, 02:41
That, and not having to sit down to pee.PS: That is the only disadvantage I will cede re: that area of the anatomy. :)

At the end of the day, those femme parts have gifted us with multiple organizational advantages over XY parts. :p

FrontSight

Roguish Lawyer
03-18-2005, 05:32
PS: That is the only disadvantage I will cede re: that area of the anatomy. :)

At the end of the day, those femme parts have gifted us with multiple organizational advantages over XY parts. :p

FrontSight

Aren't you forgetting something else? Perhaps you are answering the question at the wrong time of the month . . .

alphamale
03-18-2005, 05:41
Doesn't phase me in the least...

Your mileage may vary. :)

------------------------

OK, so conclusion is steroids aren't worth it.

-------------------------

re: Mike Mahler's website from NDD's reply

http://www.mikemahler.com/index.html

had a picture (can't find it now) of him on an Indoboard. Went to that website.

http://www.indoboard.com/


Had never heard of a balance trainer, but what a cool invention!

After so many years of ballet I think I have decent balance, but that would be a fun thing to do while on con calls without sounding too out-of-breath.

FrontSight

NousDefionsDoc
03-18-2005, 06:33
Because mostly, people choose to be humane to each other.
Ah yes, the social contract. It is not unanimous by any means.

One must train body and mind, neither is good without the other.

In OODA terms, it is best, in my opinion, to deal with the Big "O" early on. Decide your Orientation to be hit "that" when "this" is observed. Have 1-2 good techniques ready to go. Takes most of the decision making out and allows you to get inside the adversary's loop very quickly. Much easier to turn it off than turn it on.

If you do hit - hit don't grab. And keep hitting. There are no neutral corners and no 10 counts.

SA will tell when it is more likely to occur than not. Time/place/people. If you go to the 5th Ward after 22:00, figure very likely. Yellow is not hard to maintain and Yellow to Orange is an easy step. Much easier than Green to Red or even Green to Orange. Yellow is also good for avoiding falls and traffic accidents.

Being a little crazy never hurt either.

Bill Harsey
03-18-2005, 07:54
If you do hit - hit don't grab.


All is good in your post here NDD but I wanted to ask folks about this one statement, do you know (not NDD) why this is important?

Martin
03-18-2005, 10:26
All is good in your post here NDD but I wanted to ask folks about this one statement, do you know (not NDD) why this is important?
It doesn't stop a determined man one bit. It doesn't hurt (much), imobilize, kill or anything else of consequence. If anything, it keeps the bad guy close while allowing a moment to act - for him. Personally, I'd see it as hesitation on the holder's part and be further encouraged. You don't control the other person, i.e. neither the fight.

Is that correct, Sir?

The Reaper
03-18-2005, 11:14
It doesn't stop a determined man one bit. It doesn't hurt (much), imobilize, kill or anything else of consequence. If anything, it keeps the bad guy close while allowing a moment to act - for him. Personally, I'd see it as hesitation on the holder's part and be further encouraged. You don't control the other person, i.e. neither the fight.

Is that correct, Sir?

Depends on what you grab.

TR

Martin
03-18-2005, 15:37
Depends on what you grab.

TR

Yes, Sir. I interpreted NDD and Harsey's message to mean somebody pretty unfamiliar with fighting. I can see multiple techniques made possible or more efficient because of grabbing, e.g. the head, or take take downs.

Leozinho
03-19-2005, 16:33
Dedicate Gym time to endurance type lifting with as much weight as you can manage. I look toward 10 sets of 10 repititions of any major muscle group exercise. Bench for Chest, Pullups for back, Curls for Bi/tri, Military Press for shoulders, and squats and lunges for legs. You'll not get huge or enourmously strong, but you will get rapid strength and enduracne, (and sore as hell).

just my .02

mp

Thanks for that post.

Some of you may want to check out www.Crossfit.com. It's a website/gym/community that seems to have found favor among military/le types.

They work hard on finding the right combination of functional speed/strength/power/endurance/balance/agility. They do O-lifts and other complex movements, rather than just trying to add more pounds to your one-rep bench max. Lots of rope climbing and work with gymnast rings, as well.

It also introduced me to 'endurance lifting' that will leave you smoked. The Fight Gone Bad workout has you doing one minute of 75 lb deadlift high pulls, followed immediately by a 20" box jump for a minuted, followed by a minute of 75lb push presses (standing military press, with a slight squat to get the bar moving if needed), followed by a minute on a Concept 2 rower and a minute squating/throwing a 20 lb medicine ball at a mark draw 8 feet high. Rest for a minute, then repeat cycle 2 or 4 more times.

Another good one a 400 meter run, then 21 Kettebell or dumbell swings then 12 pullups. Repeat 2 more times. (A lot of the exercises are better suited to a garage gym where you can drop the weight and take off on a run, rather than a commercial facility)

In my humble view, it's far and away better conditioning that following a bodybuilding routine, which is what I see most people doing at the gym.


"Have any of you seen the draft version of the "new" PT FM that the Physical Fitness School put out a few years ago (before they took it off their website)? They changed the focus of PT to 'functional fitness', incorporating exercises that mimiced tasks soldiers could expect to perform in combat, and other exercises that strengthened supporting and stabilizing muscles. Its more equipment intensive than the current push-up/sit-up/run concept, but appears to be more directed towards what an infantryman would need.

My AIT DSs switched my class to the new PT program toward the end of my course in March '04. More "core strength' (abs and obliques) than the old PT program. One curious thing is that you had to get up out of the seated position without using your hands. It also had shuttle runs. (The PT program at Basic had ZERO speed work. ) Seems to me the ability to run/sprint for short distances is important. We were also supposed to do pull-ups, but we didn't have any pull up bars. The DSs didn't like it because there were fewer pushups, and they worried our PT scores would go down. We graduated before I could judge the efficacy of the program.

NousDefionsDoc
03-19-2005, 16:40
More "core strength' (abs and obliques)
Are you sure that's what core strength means?

Roguish Lawyer
03-19-2005, 16:50
Are you sure that's what core strength means?

Perhaps he's referring to it in the Pilates sense of the word. Read about some NFL linemen giving up weightlifting and taking up Pilates instead.

alphamale
03-19-2005, 17:24
Some of you may want to check out www.Crossfit.com. It's a website/gym/community that seems to have found favor among military/le types.

They work hard on finding the right combination of functional speed/strength/power/endurance/balance/agility. They do O-lifts and other Nice website. The O-lift isn't in one of their video exercises. They had references to O-lift trainers. What is an O-lift?

FrontSight

NousDefionsDoc
03-19-2005, 17:39
Olympic.

Leozinho
03-19-2005, 18:14
Perhaps he's referring to it in the Pilates sense of the word. Read about some NFL linemen giving up weightlifting and taking up Pilates instead.

That was my meaning. "Core strength" has become a buzz word and now a cliche. Some innovative trainers realized a while back that standard weight lifting routines (notice I didn't say strength training) don't make you a better athlete. One name that comes to mind is Mark Verstegen, who takes college athletes and preps them for pro combines. His philosophy is train movements, not muscle groups, and he concentrates on mid-body parts.

Now every aerobic instructor seems to have a DVD promoting core strength, which usually means sit-ups on an exercise ball.

Witness http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=pd_kk_sr_1/104-7096899-8983155?index=books&field-keywords=core%20fitness

Scrappy
03-23-2005, 17:53
i have been running 4 miles a day and then doing sprints trying to bring my recovery time down. Talked to my recruiter today and he gave me an assignment to see if i could be at 6 miles by next week. I kinda get the feeling there will be puke on the track tonight.

Dustin03
04-12-2005, 22:49
........... I kinda get the feeling there will be puke on the track tonight.

Those are the best times man! I feel my best after I run so hard that I want to throw up.

DunbarFC
04-26-2005, 23:14
Now that warm weather is here I'm back to road biking

Have a 200 mile two day ride to raise money for MS coming up in June I need to get ready for

ccrn
04-29-2005, 20:09
On top of my usual body weight PT, running, and weight lifting...

Ive added cross country trail running.

Ive also hung about twenty foot of heavy rope in my backyard for climbing and Im thinking of building a seven foot wall like you see in conditioning courses.

Ive also started doing one hundred yard sprints with BA, LBV, and ruck upon recommendation of a member here.



(edit spelling)

Razor
05-01-2005, 14:50
ccrn, before installing a wall, might I recommend putting up a pull-up bar? The versatility of a simple pull-up bar is much greater than a wall for developing overall fitness (pull-ups, chin-ups, abdominal and back work, shoulder and lat development, etc).

ccrn
05-02-2005, 14:29
Razor,

Ive had one in my hallway for months (which does get used).

Thankyou very much for the suggestion-

ccrn

Go For Broke
05-03-2005, 21:25
CCRN,
Here is a mod you might want to make to make te pull ups more interesting. Learned this in college from an NCO who was also a Heerbergsfuhrer (SP? 10th Groupers?). Take a piece of PVC pipe, about six inches inner diameter, and place it over the bar. Now try to do the pull ups. It is really ingenious actually, it forces you to goose neck your wrist in order to stay on it, and it also prevents you from kipping you way up. To make it really interesting, have the pull up bar suspended (we used rope at threaded through the bar).

GFB

lksteve
05-03-2005, 22:18
Learned this in college from an NCO who was also a Heerbergsfuhrer ...Take a piece of PVC pipeHerresbergfuhrer...and would you be so kind as to PM the name of the individual to me...? i worked with the first five or six who were qualified, helped screen another half dozen or so potential candidates...

BTW, Bergfuhrers had a lot of perverse ways to do PT... :lifter

vivelamorte
05-08-2005, 10:54
for PT or H2H?

I have found a great complement for boxing - Systema, which is marketed as "Russian Martial Art".

The brother of this guy http://www.russianmartialart.com/ is teaching it down here. A few ex-soldiers from Russia, and they're all tough as, er, woodpecker lips. And unbelievably friendly and nice, good chums. Quite unlike anything else I've done.

Apart from that, I finally ought to get my ar** up and start a strict running regime, and fartlek, and hang up a punching bag......

The Dave
05-10-2005, 22:27
Just started bodyweight only training tonight. Seems like I got much much more of a workout than when I'm using the free weights.

Starting rock climbing this weekend, so I'll see how that helps improve the upper body too.

NousDefionsDoc
05-10-2005, 23:01
What program are you doing TheDave?

twil13
05-11-2005, 08:33
I recently did 1000 pushups in 1 hour to see if I could do it. It was much more difficult than I thought, and on the last 50 or so it was pretty hard to push. It was nice because I got really sore, and it lasted for several days, which doesn’t happen with my normal workouts. After I recovered in did 2 minutes of pushups to see if it made a difference, and I went from 104 to 113. What I found changed was my endurance from 80 on, where I could push more faster than before. I also did 1000 flutter kicks in 1 hour as well and that was rough too. I am going to start doing both of these in an hour as a workout a couple times a week. Here is what you need to do it in 1 hour.

Get a count-down timer and set if for 2:24, it also helps if you have a timre that can also repeat so you don't have to start it every time. So you start the timer then do a set of 40 pushups immediately followed by 40 4-count flutter kicks. This leaves me with about 1 minute of rest out of the 2:24, use this time to rest and when the timer beeps to start over you repeat. Do this 25 times and it will be exactly 1 hour and 1k pushups and flutters. I tried it and went to 400 on each the other day. If anyone has a chance to try this let me know how it goes.

Tony

The Dave
05-11-2005, 10:47
What program are you doing TheDave?

Haven't selected a specific program just yet. Gonna try out some of the Crossfit excersises, and pick up a couple of the books (Combat Conditioning) you and some others have suggested. Yesterday was a lot of dips, push ups, pull ups, sit ups, and flutterkicks. I need to incorporate more running into my workouts as well.

My gym has a 30 ft rope for climbing, that I had just discovered a couple of days ago. I understand that's something I'll have to be sure I can conquer, over and over (after being smoked already).

Sigi
05-11-2005, 11:04
Get a count-down timer and set if for 2:24, it also helps if you have a timre that can also repeat so you don't have to start it every time. So you start the timer then do a set of 40 pushups immediately followed by 40 4-count flutter kicks. This leaves me with about 1 minute of rest out of the 2:24, use this time to rest and when the timer beeps to start over you repeat. Do this 25 times and it will be exactly 1 hour and 1k pushups and flutters. I tried it and went to 400 on each the other day. If anyone has a chance to try this let me know how it goes.

Tony
I am gonna try this. Haven't worked out in awhile and my weights are in storage. Very interesting.

twil13
05-11-2005, 11:31
I am gonna try this. Haven't worked out in awhile and my weights are in storage. Very interesting.

I hope you get as sore as I did. :D After you have been working out for such a long time it is hard to get sore, and I was happy when this workout did it. Good luck and let me know what you think.

Tony

frostfire
08-19-2006, 14:30
finally tried crossfit. The good 'ol 21-15-9 reps (powerclean) and 46-30-18 (superman) followed by some muscle-up and rope climb...

Both legs and arms turned to butter + blister from learning muscle-ups. Played tennis afterwards but the blood didn't seem to have returned to the head enough to enable good hand-eye-body positioning coordination. Thank goodness I didn't have any breakfast or late dinner the previous 13 hours.

Crossfit program definitely works both cardio and strength/power at the same time. I really like the functional strength exercises. Although you can do them by yourself at home, folks at the gym can make sure you have proper posture/technique and they won't count your repetition if you do it wrong.

As far as stress relief, when the pain was so intense for some reason I couldn't remember at all whatever it was that's causing stress, sadness, etc. (or what planet I'm from) even for some time afterwards. The only other time I had this experience was during rock climbing when your grip was about to give up and you're set for 30+ feet fall. Crossfit exercises can easily become addictive.

Solid
08-19-2006, 19:22
I started to do the "guerilla workout" running regime that was mentioned in an article posted here. The article take-away was a 12 min running session consisting of 4 min at 50% percieved exertion, 4 min of sprinting at 100% for 20 secs, resting 10 secs, then another 4 min at 50%. I did this three times a week in place of my usual APFT 2 mile runs.

In terms of results, I recently started running at the beach. The heat and soft sand normally take it out of me so that my run times are significantly worse than on a hard running surface. Apparently as a result of this 'guerrilla workout' running method, my run-times on the beach are 3/4 to 1/2 of what they were before. I have also noticed distinct gains in my ability to ruckmarch at high altitude.

Thank you,

Solid

NousDefionsDoc
12-22-2006, 14:33
For those doing Ross Enamait's Infinite Intensity GPP Workouts or something similar, I found an interval timer for Palm that works really well here:
Link to Timer (http://www.jan-exner.de/software/fototimer.html)

It was actually designed to time photo processing, but it works well.

BTW, IMO, Ross' stuff is the best I've seen out of all the new programs.

Jgood
12-22-2006, 15:14
Just started riding a road bike with a heart rate monitor(using it in other cardio areas also). just read a post on here for the book Heart Monitor Training for the Complete Idiot by John Parker Jr. will be ordering it after the holidays.

Am new to the whole bike riding for exercise; any suggestions on a workout routine?

S3Project
12-22-2006, 21:31
I use this timer: http://www.speedbagforum.com/timer.html when I'm doing workouts in my room (burpees, tabatas, static holds...)

NDD, any favorite workouts? I only have Never Gymless myself, and can't condition for a few weeks due to a leg injury (Osgood-Schlatters), but I'm always looking for new ideas...


- Derek

jjames83
04-29-2007, 23:07
I saw the infomercial for a workout called p90x (please hold you informercial skepticism). Short story told, 9 weeks later I completed the workout and it was awesome. It was given the dvd's from a friend who decided it was too hard for him. It incorporates alot of calesthenics and that was a big draw for me. Additionally all the workouts are done in circut training style so they're very taxing.
All in all, I highly recomend this workout for anybody looking to get or stay in shape.

x-factor
04-29-2007, 23:45
What NDD said way earlier in this thread about functional strength and about training in body armor, got me curious about something...

I used to get all my aerobic workouts by playing 2-3 hours a day of serious, full court basketball outdoors or in an unairconditioned gym. Not only was it more fun (I hate running just to run), but, I think, it also develops alot more functionality because you're having to think while moving and because it incorporates lateral movement, change of direction, change of speed, etc.

I'm just curious, but might it be more useful for you guys to adapt/invent some kind of sport that you could play in body armor for your aerobic training?

jjames83
04-30-2007, 09:20
that has been invented...it's called football

Razor
07-19-2007, 22:11
Had an opportunity to focus on some basic medicine ball training a few months ago. I like the variety it adds to "power" (strength and speed) workouts and the wide range of supporting muscle/connective tissue it involves.

TooTall
09-27-2007, 23:10
Well I guess the only thing new I'm doing is Rock Climbing. I used to fence saber competitively which kept me in shape for the APFT, and Rugby is probably the best all-around workout I've ever had. My only problem with rock climbing is that it doesn't provide a consistent workout, meaning that I can't tell whether a route will work forearms, shoulders, or upper arms more. I like to know what I'm working so that I can plan workouts. Rock climbing just kinda picks it for me. I'm kinda curious about this new thing some froggie came up with called Parkour. It's basically this all-terrain (particularly urban) gymnastics thing that looks like a lot of fun as well as being one hell of a workout. Might not be without practical application either; I heard a rumor that some military units were paying for this stuff.

x-factor
09-27-2007, 23:33
Parkour is also called "free running" and "urban mountaineering". Basically, its climbing urban landscapes without any aids (no ropes, no picks, etc). Did you see Casino Royale (the new Bond flick from last year)? The guy he's chasing in the opening scene is one of the best free runners in the world.

Onuma
09-29-2007, 16:38
Yessir I saw that. The runner was no joke! Still, it doesn't beat Mr. Bond busting through that drywall. Casino Royale was my favorite Bond flick yet.

As for myself, it's not a "new" workout routine for many of the QPs and others here, but I'm prepping myself for SFAS in the spring. I figure the longer I train, the better off I'll be. Rucking regularly, running on and off roads, APFT improvement, swimming in uniform & boots, jumping rope (eventually w/ wrist weights) for some serious cardio, a regular weight lifting routine, plyometric workouts, and other forms of cardiovascular and muscular strength & endurance exercises. There's no turning back now! :lifter This site has been instrumental in my motivation and direction to get this done, so thanks to all of the posters here for getting me off my butt and outside!

tom kelly
09-29-2007, 17:18
Trying to strengthen the tendons,ligaments and muscles in my left leg before the orthopedic surgeon decides to go with a knee replacement.It wasn't the number of jumps,it was the number of bad landings...Regards,tom kelly

Razor
09-29-2007, 19:37
Did a little of this last fall, but I'm back to sprinkling my varied workout program with tabata intervals for push-ups, pull-ups, crunches and dumbell lifts (start with a biceps curl to front of shoulders, rotate wrists so palms face forward, execute a military press, lower back to shoulder height, rotate wrists so palms face you, and complete lowering part of biceps curl). Not all on the same day, of course...I don't want my wife collecting on my life insurance just yet.

S3Project
10-02-2007, 14:36
Have you tried tabata thrusters? I've heard they're great fun.

:lifter

Tabata front squats are a goodie too.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:5eKKCtSAD5wJ:www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/Athletics/Programs/Academic%2520Year/Men/Wrestling/2006-07%2520Season/Enter%2520the%2520Tabata%2520Method.doc+tabata+fro nt+squats&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

- Derek

NousDefionsDoc
10-02-2007, 18:08
I've never done tabata, although I have read about it. I'm not that dynamic anymore.

ccrn
10-02-2007, 21:40
Ive started adding barefoot running to my weekly workout. Currently Im only doing about a mile or more per week with a goal of getting up to more than half my weekly mileage. I run about 30 mpw in shoes.

The goal is to strengthen the muscles, ligaments,and tendons in my feet and LEs, and improve my stride.

I dont have plans to do road races barefoot but I wont rule it out-

S3Project
10-02-2007, 21:49
Ive started adding barefoot running to my weekly workout. Currently Im only doing about a mile or more per week with a goal of getting up to more than half my weekly mileage. I run about 30 mpw in shoes.

The goal is to strengthen the muscles, ligaments,and tendons in my feet and LEs, and improve my stride.

I dont have plans to do road races barefoot but I wont rule it out-

Awesome!

Sounds like you're starting slow enough which is good.

I picked up some Vibram Five-Finger sprints for near-barefoot running, and, after a couple weeks of regular walking in them, figured I was good to do some sprint work.

6x 400 meter intervals and three weeks later, I still can't run ;). Had some pain in my 4th metatarsal, so I'm resting my feet for another week to avoid a stress fracture.

NDD: Ah, understood. Thanks for the response. Do you do them as part of a circuit, or stand-alone? Thrusters hurt...in my opinion, their conditioning potency is equivalent to Ross Enamait's burpee.

- Derek

The Reaper
10-03-2007, 08:12
I hope you guys remember the difference between training hard and breaking yourself.

Muscles can be made stronger with good training, joints and bones will be damaged by unnecessary gut-checks.

When you hit 50 or so, you will know the difference, but by then, it may be too late.

Running barefoot in sand may be a good tool. Running barefoot on pavement is definitely not, unless you anticipate a life span of 30 years or less.

TR

S3Project
10-03-2007, 14:15
I hope you guys remember the difference between training hard and breaking yourself.

Muscles can be made stronger with good training, joints and bones will be damaged by unnecessary gut-checks.

When you hit 50 or so, you will know the difference, but by then, it may be too late.

Running barefoot in sand may be a good tool. Running barefoot on pavement is definitely not, unless you anticipate a life span of 30 years or less.

TR

Thank you TR. If you do not mind, I would like to explain, briefly, why I am running on the forefoot.

To clarify, I'm really trying to prevent injury by switching from an unnatural heel-based strike to a more fluid and bio-mechanically sound forefoot strike.

I will paste a selection from Olympian Gordon Pirie's (free) online e-book, "Running Fast and Injury Free"

"The champion runners, who all have to run correctly, do not make much noise when their foot lands. When the fastest runner runs, he is very quiet on his feet. Excessive foot noise indicates that you are striking the ground instead of caressing it. You are dissipating energy which should be utilized in propelling yourself forward. This shows bad timing. The force to drive you forward
should only be applied after the foot has settled on the ground completely. Striking the ground, especially with the heel, causes trauma and makes the runner susceptible to injury.

The nerves conveying tactile sensation from the foot are predominantly located in the forefoot. When the ball of the foot touches the ground, these nerves “alert” the muscles of the legs, which involuntarily react to absorb the shock of landing. If a person hits the ground heel-first, this reaction of the leg muscles will be considerably less, and consequently more shock will be
experienced at the point of contact of the foot, and be transmitted to the bones of the leg. This jarring is guaranteed eventually to cause injury to the ankle, knee and/or hip joints.

It is therefore important that a runner lands on the forward portion of the foot, with the knee slightly bent, and with the foot placed beneath the body. By doing so, the runner will make use of the body's own efficient shock absorbers - the arch of the foot, the calf muscles, and the quadriceps muscles in the thighs - and in this way reduce the stress experienced by the heel,
shin bone, knee joint, thigh bone and hip joint. It is these areas which are stressed the most when the heel strikes the ground."

(Courtesy of http://www.gordonpirie.com/ )

In any case, I just mean to explain that I am not trying to be stupid and look like a stud - but rather, I am trying to strengthen my feet and run in a style conducive to longevity. I was terribly foolish by doing too much forefoot running, too soon, and I wholly concede that point.

I apologize if I have rambled too much!

Have a good day.

Regards,
Derek

x-factor
10-03-2007, 16:23
Bear in mind, there's a difference between sprinting form and distance form. When you run slower, you're not leaning forward, and you're not going to strike with a different part of your foot. Point being, you're right that you shouldn't be reaching with your heels, but neither should you be jogging on the balls of your feet as if you were sprinting.

To develop a feel the difference, try running about 200-400 meters smoothly throttling up from a walk to a full sprint and then back down. You should feel your center of gravity, your body lean, and your foot strike move forward and back as you change speed.

If you want to do something to strengthen your joints. I'd suggest you think about taking up two-man beach volleyball (assuming there's a decent place to play near you, by that I mean somewhere with guys who play at a high tempo). Explosive movements in multiple, unanticipated directions in soft sand is the best way I know to strengthen joints and improve explosive movement. As a bonus it will be good for your hand-eye coordination and a good way to meet chicks.

booker
10-03-2007, 20:43
Although I enjoy running, burpees are my favorite cardio exercise.

I like burpees as well, although flying burpees have a special placei my heart.

NousDefionsDoc
10-03-2007, 21:05
I like burpees. Alot. The studs don't seem to care for them much - probably has something to do with the vest.

What's a flying burpee?

ccrn
10-03-2007, 21:19
I hope you guys remember the difference between training hard and breaking yourself. TR

No over training gut check here Sir.

Just some easy, gentle aerobic running without shoes. If it works for me Ill build it up but even then I dont plan to race or do speed work etc barefoot (at least for the near future)-

Razor
10-03-2007, 23:45
I've never done tabata, although I have read about it. I'm not that dynamic anymore.

They don't have to be overly dynamic, brother. So long as you continue doing whatever exercise you're doing for the full 20 sec, and its not a really slow movement, you'll get the hurts-so-good effect.

Onuma
10-04-2007, 10:05
I've been training running "almost" barefoot for a couple of months now. Those Vibram five fingers shoes are just enough to protect your foot from a stray pebble or small shard of glass, etc, but still convey the feeling of barefoot running.

When your technique is sound, you are prone to far fewer injuries and you're actually faster with more endurance than running traditionally with sneakers. I used to be able to run 6 minute miles barefoot, but running with shoes has ever been difficult for me.

Technology is great, but occasionally it's a one-step-forward, two-steps-back kinda thing. Footwear can be excellent for protection, but not always as good for performance, imho.

x-factor
10-04-2007, 19:39
Technology is great, but occasionally it's a one-step-forward, two-steps-back kinda thing. Footwear can be excellent for protection, but not always as good for performance, imho.

I would tend to agree, at least for sprinting. I used to run my 40 barefoot. Maybe its psychosomatic, but I swear it cut a full tenth off.

HQ6
10-04-2007, 19:51
I lifted, power walked, and did the elliptical through out my pregnancy with number two, so I am not having as much trouble recouping this time, but I have definitely kicked up my PT a few notches:

Monday - Lift, step aerobics (I know girly), and kickboxing
Tuesday - Abs, gluts, and thighs, jog 2-3 miles, and spin (I know girly again, but we do get some team guys in the class too)
Wednesday - Lift, step aerobics, and jogging 2-3 miles
Thursday - Kickboxing and spin
Friday - Lift, spin, step aerobics
Saturday - Lift, spin, jogging 2-3 miles
Sunday - Rest

The weekends the better half and I go biking on the trails, shooting, and/or "rucking." Well, sort of rucking :) He carries a 70 pound ruck, and I carry our 37 pound toddler in the Kelty.

booker
10-05-2007, 11:25
I like burpees. Alot. The studs don't seem to care for them much - probably has something to do with the vest.

What's a flying burpee?


It was introduced to me by Mark Twight. Execute a burpee per the usual course of events, but on the jump, instead of going up, execute a broad jump. Set a distance (50m, etc) and go at it. Do it for time, for distance, for distance during a set time, etc. It takes some of the monotony out of high rep burpees. Works really well with farmers carries and sled drags.

NousDefionsDoc
10-05-2007, 11:41
What's "high rep burpees"?

NousDefionsDoc
10-05-2007, 11:42
They don't have to be overly dynamic, brother. So long as you continue doing whatever exercise you're doing for the full 20 sec, and its not a really slow movement, you'll get the hurts-so-good effect.

Roger, I shall try it. Many thanks.

booker
10-05-2007, 13:09
Some say 25 is high rep, I refer to 100+ as high rep (does not necessarily need to be continuous, but still within one workout session) due to the impact on the lower back.

booker
10-05-2007, 15:50
I've only heard this second hand, haven't experienced it myself, but over time the thrusting action of the legs causes the back (if not compensated via abdominal pressure) to "jar" (i.e., belly button moves toward the ground too much. I'm not an exercise phys person, so I'm not sure what to call this motion). The way I see it high rep anything over the long term will probably result in some sort of injury, so why not spruce things up?

ccrn
10-07-2007, 00:57
Those Vibram five fingers shoes are just enough to protect your foot from a stray pebble or small shard of glass, etc, but still convey the feeling of barefoot running.


Do you also do much true barefoot running without the VIbrams to compare?

And do those run true to size or larger or smaller? Im thinking those might be handy during the winter months which around my parts could be described as...bitter-

S3Project
10-07-2007, 01:44
Not the one you asked, but since I own some...

Vibram has a sizing conversion on their website. http://vibramfivefingers.com/

It works for MOST people...but the store I ordered from said sizing returns on the 5-fingers were about ~20-25%...usual return rates are 2%. Finding a store and trying them on would be your best bet, if possible. Some REIs stock them. Vibram has a store locator, too.

I usually wear a 10-10.5 in running shoes, but wear a 41 Sprint.

I ordered 42 Classics, but they were too big. Tightening the shock cord made them more secure, at the cost of pain from the cord cutting into my skin.

The 41 are about right - maybe a little on the small side in a toe or two. The 5-Fingers tend to be looser in the heels than the toes. I personally prefer the Sprints over the Classics...the strap secures them quite nicely, and I find them to be more comfortable. I did not like the elastic on the Classics.

Injinji socks are good if you want socks with 'em.

William Shears
10-30-2007, 00:14
I have been doing hill and stair intervals with my IBA and toy SAPI plates I filled with sand to simulate the plates I have not yet been issued. This solution is working great for me in lieu of real plates to PT with. I am also constructing a metal tube filled with rebar to simulate my SAW.

I don't know how new that is for most people, but the Marines in my unit were shocked that I was doing anything other than the recommended "3 miles 3 times a week + Gold's Gym membership."

Onuma
10-30-2007, 20:19
CCRN:

I used to run "true" barefoot back in high school and college, but occassionally you still catch a rock, nail, shard of glass, etc. even while running where there really shouldn't be some of those foreign items.

I have a size 14 foot, so I had to order largest available size (47). I think my measurement was 12.25", and the chart was pretty darn accurate to how it fits. If my feet were ANY larger I'd be SOL. If you have an oddly shaped foot or if your 2nd toe is longer than your big toe, you may have some trouble with the fit.

I think for your situation, if you can find the proper size, you could definitely make use of these. Also, you may want to consider wearing those "toe socks" with the fivefingers. The inner stitched seam of the fivefingers toes can sometimes irritate you, and the socks could help alleviate this problem (or just get uber calouses).

Toe socks:
http://www.sock-dreams.com/_shop/pages/socks_detail_ProductID_376.php

I hope that helps!

Razor
11-08-2007, 15:18
Warning: Personal results follow; YMMV

So after losing a good deal of muscle mass and strength last year due to illness, I decided to try a different exercise routine than I have used before. Instead of strength-training centric (with moderate cardio mixed in) 3 days a week, I've gone to lighter resistance weight training (using more dumbells to also work supporting muscles) in a "power" routine (performing the concentric movements as quickly as safely possible), mixed with a day a week of primarily bodyweight resistance (sometimes in Tabata intervals). I still do heavy weights for the major muscle groups, but only once every week to week and a half. I go as heavy as possible to complete 4 sets of 5 reps. I also work in at least two days of cardio/week for at least 45 minutes a session (to include heavy bag work).

I mention all this, as I've found that I've quickly recovered (and now surpassed) my peak strength level from before I got sick, but am not carrying the extra bulk/bodyweight I had at that time. My power moves have improved, I feel better overall, and have more agility and flexibility.

I've done bodyweight only exercise in the past as an experiment, and found that my endurance (measured by push-up performance in the APFT) actually decreased, so I realized I had to include weight training in my overall regimen. What I've found with this latest experiment is that I can keep my raw strength where I want it without as frequent gym trips as I previously thought necessary, allowing me to work other aspects of fitness more often to maintain overall health.

Again, this seems to have worked for me; you have to do your own experimenting to find the routine that works best for your body.

REMFlt
11-20-2007, 11:50
Doing PT 5 days a week and lifting heavy M,W,F, sprinting T,R, and climbing ropes every day. Being a single dad right now (wife is in the sandbox), cuts down on my time in the evenings, occasionally strap on a ruck and push the stroller. Used the "Cheat to Lose Diet" to drop down from 180 to 166, which really helped my run times.

outofwater
02-13-2008, 15:47
I searched the thread for a site I was recently turned onto and didn't come up with any results, so I'd like to offer it up, hopefully I din't miss a post about it somewhere along the way. The site is www.fatalfitness.com, it's very similair to CrossFit, things of that nature. It's a site pretty dedicated to servicemen/women, and hardcore fitness enthusiasts. It's nothing insanely original, but there are some good variations of classics. A good site for those with an eclectic approach to PT.

bluenote
02-18-2008, 08:21
For the guys in the Vibram/Barefoot Running discussion several posts back:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/seanhorgan/story/352935.html

An 11 year old kid ran the half-marathon in Myrtle Beach, barefoot, with a time of 1:38:54 on Saturday. The roads here have broken glass, construction debris, pebbles, etc. He said he didn't have a problem.

Also if there is a recruiter here, the winner of the 5K on Friday was a 16 year old kid with a time of 16:46. Sign that kid up in a year or two. BN

stanley_white
02-18-2008, 17:45
I finally picked up a Body Opponent Bag or BOB to replace my heavy bag.

http://www.amazon.com/Century-Body-Opponent-Bag/dp/B00022KIYY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1203377872&sr=8-1

I feel like an idiot for not discovering the BOB earlier. Since it has facial features it is much easier to practice eye strikes, cupped hand blows, and chin jabs vice using regular boxing gloves and practicing straight punches on a heavy bag.

I am doing ten rounds, two minutes each, with two minutes of rest between rounds, twice a week.

I am going to drop the rest rounds by 15 seconds each week until I am down to 30 seconds between rounds.

The only downside to a BOB is I had a hard time trying to figure out how to weight down my hands for more of a workout. When I used a heavy bag I would do this same drill but with 16 oz gloves on my hands.

I just ordered a set of these Palmgard Weighted Batting Gloves which come with 12 ounces of weight and can be upgraded to 16. I am going to use these gloves for the weight and see how it goes.

http://www.amazon.com/Palmgard-Power-Weighted-Training-Gloves/dp/B000ITL9LW

Blitzzz (RIP)
03-10-2008, 09:45
Guys I have an exercise system like no other in the world. I invented/ stumbled on it 14 years ago and work/tweaked it to it's present form. I have used it to rehab wounded troops at Ft Campbell for 4 years. I really need to sell it to some pro team, but in the meantime I give this to friends and anyone who is willing to keep training records. The system will increase life time best strength by 20+% and double muscular endurance. It is the only system that will do this. It does this without pain, without tendon or ligament strains. It's called "The Blitz", guess why. I'm alway willing to provide a copy plus instruction. I would like to get it to the Groups as a program. I should rename it "bulletproofing". Blitz

New edit: This is the Blitz like in PS.com http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/files/workout.pdf

There is no better system for personal power and endurance . Blitz

Rob_0811
04-17-2008, 13:10
I finally recoverd from a back injury sustained in Iraq and am starting an MMA program at Guy Metzger's gym here in Dallas.

I'm excited about it, as my ground work sucks right now. They're also incorporating Muay Thai as a part of the program. Sounds fun.

I'll report back on the experience, maybe other DFW members would be interested.

Rob_0811
05-16-2008, 10:02
Well if anyone is interested here is a very short assement of Guy Mezger's Combat Sports club.

Very professional. Very helpful. Lots of hard work.

I like it.

the end.

Lmmsoat
11-26-2008, 23:15
I heard Mark Verstegen mentioned a while back in this thread.

http://www.coreperformance.com/

He has been in the performance training arena for years. He stresses injury prevention in order to make yourself a better athlete. He believes that the majority of the plateus we hit while training are due to minor injuries. His workout programs are well thought out and based on his years of working with professional athletes. Pro teams from across the US and the globe send their athletes to his facility in AZ for fitness training.

My feelings on crossfit are mixed. I've been saying for years the army needs to move twards battle focused/functional PT. The problem I see with crossfit is the lack of training. I've seen more guys damage themselves due to improper form than with a traditional PT program. Olympic power lifters perfect their form from extensive coaching. Another problem I see with crossfit is the "go hard" mentality. I agree intensity is a hallmark of good PT. The problem is the culture that fosters guys to push themselves to make mistakes. Guys will sacrifice form in order to get that last rep in, or to beat their buddies time. For those of you who have the opportunity find a good strength coach from your local collage. Have him instruct you guys on proper lifting. For those of you who are diciples of crossfit, keep an eye out in the gym for the younger guys. They, more than anyone else, will use brute strength to compensate (at the cost of soft tissue damage).

MILON
11-30-2008, 17:29
"For those of you who have the opportunity find a good strength coach from your local collage. Have him instruct you guys on proper lifting." (Lmmsoat)

I may be biased because I am a strength coach, but I can't agree more with Lmmsoat. I have also been saying for years the army needs to change their approach to physical training and that appears to be happening, but slowly. Training soldiers more like the athletes they are is crucial for increasing performance and preventing injuries, which would save the military a ton of money and soldiers a lot of time. Some call Crossfit a fad, but really its just another method that can be worked into anyones training plan.

I have a couple thoughts/suggestions for anyone who does contact a local strength coach.

1. Do the research. I am a first year grad student and I know more than the average person, but the head coach at my college has been doing it for ten years and has trained olympic, professional and college athletes. If a coach like that is willing to work with you, take advantage.

2. Ask the coach what his philosophy is and how he plans a program. I know of coaches who have no plan, direction, or method to their programs. They just throw something up on the white board for every new session. Try to find a coach who has a philosophy, can explain periodization and uses it, tests athletes on a regular basis, and has the experience to coach complicated lifts.

If anyone has any questions regarding strength coaches, physical training, etc. I'd be more than happy to help.

Matt

Blitzzz (RIP)
11-30-2008, 22:10
Matt, I know you're immensely qualified to teach lifting and standard strengthening. I appreciate your efforts to help the troops get in better shape, but none of this is new. It's all the same old systems and can only strengthen the primary and secondary tissue. No system you know will acomplish what the Blitz system does. Not even close. You've never seen it and can't make any comparison.
The Blitz is attainable here and I am available to in service any qualified trainer or coach that is willing to possess an absolute in conditioning. Blitz

Note: If you have a difficult time downloading it from this site, send an E-Mail address to me via PM and I'll send you a copy that way.
Blitz

MILON
12-01-2008, 09:06
Blitzzz,

I downloaded and have a copy. I've been working it into my own training and have found success with it, just as you say. So, I believe you when you say it works and although I dont promote it as much, I certainly would advise anyone who asks to work it into their program.

I still disagree no other system works because its simply limiting yourself when their are so many methods out there. Everything works, for a while, until your body adapts. My own trial and error has taught me that, not necessarily eductaion or a certification.

One correction, for those who may not know. Strength and conditioning coaches teach MUCH more than "lifting technique and standard strengthening". Any good coach will make it a goal to improve human performance in all domains, especially the ones specific to the particular sport, event, or activity. Just didnt want anyone to get the wrong idea.

LawOfTheSea
01-17-2009, 15:10
Currently researching W.E. Fairbairn, O'Neill, Applegate's close combat methods and trainings.

Gutterfighting.org is an invaluable resource.

Now to find the books...

NousDefionsDoc
01-23-2009, 20:03
Paladin Press

frostfire
02-11-2009, 13:01
(copy and paste)crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html#Combatives


Crossfit website has some good stuff on combatives.
- The use of flinch response
- Physiology of extensor vs. flexor
- More dangerous than a fight is an ambush. You don't get to pick time, location, scenario, and so on
- 2-seconds element of an ambush, then transition to your system
- Emotional, psychological, and finally physical aspects
- Situational awareness at ATM, elevator, etc.

nothing new esp. to folks here I'm sure, but he does present it in a succint, effective, idiot-proof manner. I do not know Tony Blauer credential, but I wished I had adopted the system/mindset when I got sucker-punched in a certain 3rd world country backroad. That's when I realized years of Wing Chun practice and being the top student did not amount to much to violent conflict ouside dojo:rolleyes: This happened 10 years+ ago but I still remember it like yesterday. Live and learn...

dmgedgoods
02-13-2009, 20:14
Currently working the Blitz into my daily routine. The concept makes more sense than most other systems. Finding the right equipment is the most difficult part, but taking what works from the system as a whole is pushing me past what I was doing on a normal level, considering my crazy schedule these days. I plan on just working the whole system for 6-8 weeks, considering it takes minimal time during the day, much like crossfit. I would recommend anybody interested in a different approach to PT improvement to try this system out. I'll post progress soon.

Shawn

Surgicalcric
02-14-2009, 08:56
www.mtnathlete.com

I have been giving it a go for the past couple weeks and have been happily getting my arse handed to me with some of their non-standard exercises. At first I didnt think much about it but I am making some fairly substantial gains in the strength without my endurance suffering...

Anyone else giving them a go?

stanley_white
02-14-2009, 19:54
Burpee Pull-Ups x 50.

Goal is 100.

MILON
02-14-2009, 20:28
Just completed a 4 week progression of the following:

3 Set Series Lower Body:

Squat w/ chains (60-75%1RM) 6-8 reps
paired with
Jump Squats 4 reps
paired with
Weighted Jump Squats 4 reps
paired with
Lunge Jumps

4 Set Series Upper Body:

Band DB Bench Press (60-75%1RM) 6 reps
paired with
Alternating Grip Power Pull Ups 6 reps (add reps every week)
paired with
Band Push Up 5 reps (add reps every week)
paired with
Push Up Claps 5 reps (add reps every week)

Complete 4 exercises in succession, rest 2 minutes between sets and decrease rest period as able over 4 week time frame.

Decreasing rest periods and/or adding reps as your program progresses is a effective way to increase work capacity and strength in a shorter period of time, given the higher intensity. Ensure no rest is taken between exercises and all sets/reps are completed.

Enjoy

PinelandVet66
02-16-2009, 00:49
If you all are into some new stuff check out MTN. Athletes new site . google it.
GYM jones or MTN. Athlete great workouts and very battle focused!

LawOfTheSea
02-26-2009, 20:26
Thanks for the heads up, NDD. On their way to me currently.

Their seminar is only a state away from me. Will be attending it when I head back there.

Blitzzz (RIP)
02-26-2009, 21:39
dmgedgoods, I'm glad you are Blitzing. by now you should know it's nothing like Cross Fit. :rolleyes:
Blitzzz

dmgedgoods
02-27-2009, 18:32
dmgedgoods, I'm glad you are Blitzing. by now you should know it's nothing like Cross Fit. :rolleyes:
Blitzzz

I did a crossfit workout with my buddy the other day. It was a great workout, but not exactly what I am looking for. So far the workout you have put out is going pretty good. It is hard to keep consistency due to my job requirements at the moment, but that should change in the near future. I will keep you posted on progress.

Shawn

Carpe Noctem
03-02-2009, 18:34
I have also started the Blitz program. Having been a dyed-in-the-wool heavy-low reps kind of guy, I find it a great and highly productive change of pace. Once I start seeing some progress, I'll post some results.

Swank
03-03-2009, 09:02
Lots of front squats, hang clean and press, pull-ups, L-pull-ups, leg-arc pull-ups, push ups in various forms, box jumps, hand-stand push-ups, medicine ball crunches, and heavy bag. No particular order. The chunks I blew in the sand yesterday tell me that it's working ok.

Leozinho
03-03-2009, 11:48
www.mtnathlete.com

I have been giving it a go for the past couple weeks and have been happily getting my arse handed to me with some of their non-standard exercises. At first I didnt think much about it but I am making some fairly substantial gains in the strength without my endurance suffering...

Anyone else giving them a go?


Yes, (when I have access to a facility that is remotely friendly to those sort of workouts.) I like it much better than CF*.

Mostly I like that the workouts are one hour long (with the occasional 2 hour effort). I think there's a place for the high intensity 8 minute CF workouts, but the no free lunch rule applies. MTNAthlete has said that seasoned CFers visit his gym and struggle with his hour-long workouts, and I can see why.

I think Mtnathlete's heavy efforts are better than the mainpage CF WODs, also.

However, he's changed his website and workouts in the last month to prescribe different workouts for his climbers and "tactical athletes." I'm not completely sold yet on the new 'tactical athlete' workouts, where he tells you when and how long to ruck.

I liked the old way, which was doing his generic workouts on M/W/F and skipping the rock climbing-centric workouts on Tuesday and Thursday. I then have the freedom to incorporate endurance efforts on my own.

*-Though with CF nowadays you have to say whether its Mainpage CF WOD, MEBB, CF Gant Hybird, CF W/Strength Bias, etc. At least with all the different branches of CF, some CFers are tacitly admitting that 'old school' mainpage CF is lacking.

abc_123
03-03-2009, 18:13
Yes, (when I have access to a facility that is remotely friendly to those sort of workouts.) I like it much better than CF*.

Mostly I like that the workouts are one hour long (with the occasional 2 hour effort). I think there's a place for the high intensity 8 minute CF workouts, but the no free lunch rule applies. MTNAthlete has said that seasoned CFers visit his gym and struggle with his hour-long workouts, and I can see why.

I think Mtnathlete's heavy efforts are better than the mainpage CF WODs, also.

However, he's changed his website and workouts in the last month to prescribe different workouts for his climbers and "tactical athletes." I'm not completely sold yet on the new 'tactical athlete' workouts, where he tells you when and how long to ruck.

I liked the old way, which was doing his generic workouts on M/W/F and skipping the rock climbing-centric workouts on Tuesday and Thursday. I then have the freedom to incorporate endurance efforts on my own.

*-Though with CF nowadays you have to say whether its Mainpage CF WOD, MEBB, CF Gant Hybird, CF W/Strength Bias, etc. At least with all the different branches of CF, some CFers are tacitly admitting that 'old school' mainpage CF is lacking.


I did just build a small sandbag (80#) using the method shown on the mtnathlete web site. Very easy. No mess. I used a smaller civilian duffle bag knock off and think I could fit about 100# of wood pellets in it. Not sure about a big duffle..I'd guess 120-150#??. Anyway, it was a lot easier than dealing with sand.

PinelandVet66
03-03-2009, 20:42
Just had the MTN athlete guys come out and run the team through the ringer. i have got to tell you, it was a smokefest. There is a workout on the website that we did at the range to evaluate our shooting under exstreme stress it was a great evaluation any team can wrap some time around. Im sure Rob at MTN. Athlete will be out looking for more SOF units to gather data on. Good Luck!:lifter

Surgicalcric
03-03-2009, 21:03
I read where he came up and visited you guys and he is planning on doing more work with SF.

It is nice to see someone taking what he knows about fitness, learning what it is we need out of a program, and pushing forward with some ideas. We talked a few days ago about the upcoming changes to the site as well as to the program and training evolutions themselves. He is a very knowledgeable and open minded trainer. I have been more pleased with the mtn athlete stuff than I ever was with CF WOD's or with just hitting the weights and working on endurance apart from the gym.

Those (2) rep squat/clean w/ press @ 80% BW every 45 sec for 10 sets darn near killed me today. I like it...

Gavin
04-10-2009, 21:06
If you all are into some new stuff check out MTN. Athletes new site . google it.
GYM jones or MTN. Athlete great workouts and very battle focused!

crossfit steals a lot of workout ideas from gym jones, but they apply it incorrectly... ie... with NO form.

Gym Jones is an excellent weight training resource.

Gavin
04-10-2009, 21:16
Not the one you asked, but since I own some...

Vibram has a sizing conversion on their website. http://vibramfivefingers.com/

It works for MOST people...but the store I ordered from said sizing returns on the 5-fingers were about ~20-25%...usual return rates are 2%. Finding a store and trying them on would be your best bet, if possible. Some REIs stock them. Vibram has a store locator, too.

I usually wear a 10-10.5 in running shoes, but wear a 41 Sprint.

I ordered 42 Classics, but they were too big. Tightening the shock cord made them more secure, at the cost of pain from the cord cutting into my skin.

The 41 are about right - maybe a little on the small side in a toe or two. The 5-Fingers tend to be looser in the heels than the toes. I personally prefer the Sprints over the Classics...the strap secures them quite nicely, and I find them to be more comfortable. I did not like the elastic on the Classics.

Injinji socks are good if you want socks with 'em.

Injinji Outdoor wool socks are really good. They isolate each toe and help prevent blisters.

booker
04-15-2009, 09:48
I read where he came up and visited you guys and he is planning on doing more work with SF.

It is nice to see someone taking what he knows about fitness, learning what it is we need out of a program, and pushing forward with some ideas. We talked a few days ago about the upcoming changes to the site as well as to the program and training evolutions themselves. He is a very knowledgeable and open minded trainer. I have been more pleased with the mtn athlete stuff than I ever was with CF WOD's or with just hitting the weights and working on endurance apart from the gym.

Those (2) rep squat/clean w/ press @ 80% BW every 45 sec for 10 sets darn near killed me today. I like it...

Rob has a good post at Military Athlete today about prepping for selection- specifically that you need to train for certain events (like rucking) and that MILATHLETE/CROSSFIT/ whatever new scheme that is out there isn't the end all be all. Seems like I have heard The Reaper say that, oh, about 200 times or so.

http://www.militaryathlete.com/subpage_details.php?subpage_ID=279&page_ID=28

Boomer-61
05-27-2009, 14:09
www.powerropes.com
This is a system of strength endurance designed by John Brookfield. I've been training with his various techniques for about 6 months. It's so simple yet so effective. The training I do on the ropes translates to other fitness realms like my Mtn. Bike. The only down side is that you have to acquire a 50' chunk of 1.5-2.0" dia rope.
Boomer

Viking
06-10-2009, 12:16
Since it was something new, I will post it here. Yesterday we did max # of bench presses in one minute with your body weight then moved to the pull up bars for max in one minute. After the pull ups we moved to the O course and did rope climbs to absolute, fall off the rope, muscle failures. Next was the Nasty Nick monkey bars. It was a good arm/back/chest workout.

noefexus
06-11-2009, 16:05
FWIW, This website has some very well-written articles. It does not offer mere facsimiles of workouts or workout plans. It is more about encouraging athletes to reach deeply within to push themselves past the point of mere discomfort.

It all comes down to the heart you put into everything. Take each task, one at a time, and perform it with enthusiasm and concentration.

I like how the authors of the page go on to talk about isolation/body-sculpting workouts. These workouts are solely useful for mirror-lookers who want to impress other people and ultimately, are not striving to achieve athletic performance.

Perform your workout movements, exercises, reps, whatever you call them with maximum concentration and effort. I love this ideology.

Razor
06-12-2009, 10:20
I like how the authors of the page go on to talk about isolation/body-sculpting workouts. These workouts are solely useful for mirror-lookers who want to impress other people and ultimately, are not striving to achieve athletic performance.

Or, they're used to address specific weaknesses that can't be properly trained using a multi-joint/muscle group workout. Be careful of completely dismissing a concept simply because it doesn't fit your particular needs.

MILON
06-12-2009, 11:07
I believe this article applies here.

http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showexcerpt.cfm?excerpt_id=3450


MILON

trent
06-18-2009, 01:44
1-1 is running MACP classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, ultimately leading to an All-ARMY Okinawa MACP tournament with winners being sent to the All-ARMY MACP tournament at Benning. Also, for other 1-1 guys out there. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at Riesner (on Kadena) Ivan Sakamoto (pretty much a ninja) runs a Gracie BJJ class that is one of the most intense workouts I have been lucky enough to receive. -Lyle

conrad30
07-01-2009, 22:39
A friend in USMC Force Recon provided me with the following 5-day workout, which I have found to be very effective in the development of functional strength, mastery of bodyweight exercises and anaerobic conditioning. The only drawback of the workout is that it favors hypertrophy and will cause you to gain lean body mass, which may or may not be your objective. It WILL NOT cause you to gain superflouos body-mass -- you will be bigger, leaner and more-functional. :lifter

Some of the exercises need explanation
1. TRIPLE BENCH PRESS is done w/ dumbells of 25% bodyweight each ( a 200lb man would use 50's). You begin by placing a bench in the incline position and perform max reps. Then you immediately lower the bench to flat and max out again. Finally, you lower the bench to a slight decline and rep out one last time. This is one set.

2. PULLUP MECHANICAL DROP SET is done by repping out in pullups (palms out) and then immediately switching to chinups (palms in) and repping out with no rest. The principle is based on beginning an exercise with the hardest hand position and switching to the easiest to continue the workload.

3. 30-MIN HOC (at the end of each workout) stands for HIGH-OCTANE CARDIO. HOC is performed by performing 10 reps of an exercise immediately followed by 100 jumps w/ a jump rope. You will perform the two exercises in succession for 30 minutes without rest. The primary goal of this type of training is to develop the anaerobic capacity to use functional strength when exhausted. The weight-load should be enough to produce exhaustion, but not muscular failure. Pace should be max heart rate sustainable.

1. PUSHUP
TOE-TOUCHES 5min

TRIPLE BENCH PRESS (50%BW) 5xMax
DIPS 5xMax
PUSHUPS 1 4xMax
PUSHUPS 2 4xMax

CHOICE TRICEPS 4x10

BURPEES 30min HOC
JUMP ROPE

2. DEADLIFT/ LOWER BACK STABILITY
FLUTTER KICKS 5min

DEADLIFT (bar loaded w/ bodyweight) 5xMax
DB DEADLIFT 5x10
STIFFLEG DEADLIFT 4x10
BACK HYPER 4x10

4-WAY NECK 4x10

KB SWING 30min HOC
JUMP ROPE

3. PULLUPS
JANDA-SITUPS 5min

PULLUPS MECH DROP (2-way) 5xMax
RECLINE PULLUPS 5xMax
CHEST-SUPPORTED ROW 4x10
FACE PULLS 4x10

CHOICE BICEPS 4x10

SLEDGE HAMMER SWINGS (50 reps) 30min HOC
JUMP ROPE

4. MILITARY PRESS
LEG RAISES 5min

BARBELL MILITARY (50%BW) 5xMax
UPRIGHT ROW 5x10
LATERAL RAISE 4x10
REVERSE FLYE 4x10

ROTATOR CUFF 4x10

KETTLEBELL, KEG or SANDBAG PUSH-PRESS 30min HOC
JUMP ROPE

5. LOWER BODY
PLANKS 5min

LEG PRESS (or SQUAT) 5x10
MACHINE SQUAT 5x10
SINGLE-LEG SQUAT 4x10
LEG CURL 4x10

CHOICE CALF 4x10

JUMP SQUAT 30min HOC
JUMP ROPE

conrad30
07-07-2009, 18:09
The last workout I posted was geared towards individuals looking to up their strength, with modest (but not superflouos) gains in size. If your primary concern is "leaning-out" and upping your endurance (both aerobic and anaerobic) here's something you might find useful.

First, determine how many days per week you can dedicate to PT. By "dedicate" I mean "allocate 30-45 minutes." Take this number and then select that same number of exercises -- all geared towards a specific goal. For our purposes, you will use bodyweight exercises and will build the workout around 5-days/ week. All you need is a pullup bar and a track (or a jump-rope)

Day 1: PUSHUPS
Day 2: PULLUPS
Day 3: BODY-WEIGHT JUMP SQUATS
Day 4: SITUPS
Day 5: BURPEES

Take an egg timer or any stopwatch and set it to 30 minutes. Perform one set of the specified exercise followed immediately by running one lap around the track. (If you do not have a track available or cannot run for some other reason, perform 100 jumps with a jump rope instead) Repeat this sequence for 30 minutes.

The objective here is to complete a maximum number of repetitions with a given exercise in 30 minutes. Ideally you will set a new personal record each time you perform each exercise, which will be once per week. Furthermore, the faster you can haul-ass around the track, the more reps you will be able to perform in the 30 minute timeframe. If it gets too easy, try it with a weight-vest or pack.

When you guage the total workload of this workout, you will find that you have performed hundreds of repetitions, while logging a couple miles on the track. You will also develop the anaerobic capacity to perform bodyweight exercises in high volume -- while completely exhausted -- which is extremely relevent to the stated purpose behind combat conditioning.

LongWire
09-07-2009, 05:42
Been using the TRX Body Weight trainer for the last month with some really positive results. I had my doubts, but it works all kinds of muscles that you tend to take for granted, and it really works the core and back, which is what I need.

Got the Military version with the CD and the Military discount. Its a very versatile system and I like the fact that you can take it anywhere with you and even use it in the hotel room.


www.fitnessanywhere.com



Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkp8Is_1N9c&NR=1

Blitzzz (RIP)
09-08-2009, 15:10
Breaking away from the usual exercises can and will awaken "other" muscles. That is a function of exercise design. Body weight exercises in any form are not a New thing. Any of the systems mentioned here Cross fit, P90X, etc will give the same results with imagination in exercise design. Get a good trainer or knowledgable person to challange those muscles.
Your brain and you musles have always worked together. Don't be confused by the term "muscle confusion" because your muscles know and do only one thing CONTRACT. Decrease their length with force. Training the brain to ellicite the appropreate number of fibers to acomplish a movement is where the so called Muscle confusion comes from. Just be inventive with the different exercises you use and you can work all of those "taken for granted" muscles. Blitzzz

cbo1187
09-19-2009, 23:47
I spent May-Jul doing militaryathlete.com WODs. Definitely some tough stuff!

I've been doing the Crossfit Football WODs here at Ft. Knox Crossfit for the past month or so. CFFB includes major lifts in addition to the WOD. A few of my friends here take it a bit further and add crossfit endurance to the mix. I have 18 seconds to shave from my 2 mile before I'm back to my pre-surgery time, so it looks like I'll be hitting the track with them.

As for the earlier criticism of crossfit, I'd respond by saying that like any other decent idea, it's easily distorted. When in doubt, use common sense. Bad form is never a good thing. Just like the APFT, if you don't do the rep correctly, it doesn't count.

In the two Crossfit Affiliate gyms I've trained in, the trainers emphasize form over weight and/or time. When my form breaks down, I'm told to drop the bar, compose myself, and try again. The coaches put a lot of time into training the movement. If it's still not working, we reduce the load until I can do the prescribed exercise correctly.

I bought a pair of fivefingers kso's a few weeks ago, and I love them more every day. They're great for lifting, and running feels a little easier in them. As with anything YMMV.

NousDefionsDoc
09-20-2009, 10:10
Injinji Outdoor wool socks are really good. They isolate each toe and help prevent blisters.

You guys are wearing those shoes?

Anevolution
09-20-2009, 10:37
You guys are wearing those shoes?

Sir,
If you can get over the looks and the shots from the peanut gallery they are the best work out shoe I have ever put on. I have a pair of the sprints and I don't like long runs with them because the rub your foot a bit too much but for the short 3 miles and under runs they are awsome. I would recomend them to anyone who is serious about pt. However, I'm not going to ware them at sfas due to the unwanted attention it would attract.

NousDefionsDoc
09-20-2009, 13:21
I'm not going to ware them at sfas due to the unwanted attention it would attract. Probably a good plan.

I might try them. I'm too old to care what people say about my shoes...

you're running on streets with them?

cbo1187
09-20-2009, 13:34
Probably a good plan.

I might try them. I'm too old to care what people say about my shoes...

you're running on streets with them?

I haven't taken mine on pavement yet. I started on grass, then moved to a rubber-type track. When I bought them, the store manager advised me to take two weeks to break them in by walking around. After that, add in a few grass sprints after a run in normal shoes. Not that I doubted the manager's credibility, but after a little conversation I found out that he's a retired QP. That being said, I took his advice very seriously.

I'm to the point now where I've run 800's in them, and I'm gradually increasing the distance and weening myself off my normal shoes. Morning PT is definitely not the time to break out the ninja shoes, so I'll be keeping my normal shoes for awhile still.

The biggest thing I've noticed with these is that I feel a lot more stable when doing major lifts. That's not to say that the design is unique - I'm sure lifting barefoot or in Chuck Taylor's will yield a similar result.

Anevolution
09-20-2009, 14:44
Probably a good plan.
I might try them. I'm too old to care what people say about my shoes...you're running on streets with them?

Sir,

I do run on the streets but mostly at the H.S track near my house. The thing I've noticed with running on the street is the heel striking because the lack of shock absoring material if you heel strike by mistake it hurts and while not unbearable it may slow u down for a few strides. But in saying that it will condention you to run on your toes and lean foward witch I have found produces a good habbit when transitioning to regular shoes, boots etc...

Cbo1187,

At first glance I can understand how you might think that lifting in chuck's or other flat shoes might be similar but they are very different. If you lay a chuck down you see its very flat if u sit it next to a five finger you will notice the great arch support witch makes the five finger not flat at all it has its own arc in the shoe it mimics you foot (if your not flat footed). It cradels your foot,
also the straping system makes it bend around your foot without cutting of circulation like when you just tie your shoe laces to tight. The toes being out allows you to apply pressure to your individual toe's and that can mae the differenct between making the lift or not at least that is what I have found. The five finger also has one of the most stable and absorbing soles I have found the vibram sole. The same sole bates choose for there sole on the 9" desert boot witch I also have and love working out in. Just the sole give's me confedance when doing crossfit, running, rucking etc...

Just my .02

NousDefionsDoc
09-20-2009, 15:12
Thanks.

Anevolution, you need to fix your profile. "Yes" is not a location.

Surgicalcric
09-20-2009, 15:34
You guys are wearing those shoes?

I dont run in them but I wear them when I am lifting (power-lifting.) They provide a better base for me and assist me in keeping my heels pressed into the ground/floor during squats, deadlifts...

They are pretty good for around the house too, not that I have had much time to be around the house in them...

Crip

NousDefionsDoc
09-20-2009, 18:38
That's a nice avatar you got there Doc. What's the words say?

They look like they would probably be ok on grass...

Surgicalcric
09-20-2009, 20:02
"ODERINT DUM METUANT" Let them hate, as long as they fear.

Crip

NousDefionsDoc
09-20-2009, 20:43
I like it.

frostfire
10-05-2009, 14:06
Probably not new to most, but new to me.

With the exception of high intensity training (EDT), when I do cardio I didn't like doing strength exercise and vice versa. So now I'm combining ruck with calishtenics such as push-ups while still wearing the ruck. I do 4 to 7 miles, 45lbs ruck march/trot at 12:30 to 14:19 pace. If I take water sips every 3 miles, I'll do 20 push-ups, if every 2 miles, 30 pushups. Hence, making the options bad and worse.

On a side note, finally took my first APFT for record, went beyond max for PU (93), SU (84), although by SF standard (chest touching ground, slow-controlled movement), that 93 probably drops to 77 or 70. Sit-ups are solid though, as I went beyond perpendicular and had my inner elbows touch the knees each time. The running OTOH...14:52. The good Colonel who was almost twice my age did it in almost 2 minutes faster! Learned my lesson. Rucking (trot/run) does not translate to running well. Without the ruck, the first 0.7 mile I felt like flying, but not so with the other 1.3 mile. I was told to stop after maxing PU and SU, and to conserve the energy for the run, but all I could hear in my mind was "do the best you can. :)"

Razor
10-05-2009, 14:46
I was told to stop after maxing PU and SU, and to conserve the energy for the run, but all I could hear in my mind was "do the best you can.

Told to stop? What a sad, self-limiting philosophy.

frostfire
01-28-2010, 22:21
I've been running in the pool to further ingrain the POSE running technique. Shift center of gravity forward, keep arms above the head (if arms move in the water too, the training of the feet is hindered), then "fall" forward and keep pulling the feet forward-up. It's easy on the knees and joints too, but the muscles get worked from the water resistance.

Additionally, I found out the bottom of your feet develop hot spots rather fast after 500yards or so of back n forth in the pool. Well, dry it up, put some isopropyl alcohol and voila! Building calluses and toughening the feet!

I started doing it by accident after observing someone doing the same and recalling the pool physical training given to injured cross country athletes when I was life-guarding. BTW, in regards to swimming, I highly recommend learning Combat Side Stroke for anyone wanting to swim further. Even a weak swimmer like me who couldn't last beyond 300 yds doing freestyle could do 500 yards in 10:30 w/o getting smoked.

Dack
03-26-2010, 10:36
I'm just doing the 30 day workout in WM's book.
:lifter

Masochist
03-26-2010, 10:45
Has anyone tried the "new" workouts on the SORB page? There are a lot more instructional videos than before and a comprehensive manual.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/Sorb_Videos.html

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/text/SELECTED%20Book%20Final%20Draft%203.pdf

http://groups.google.com/group/thetacticalathlete

k-rub
03-27-2010, 16:24
Has anyone tried the "new" workouts on the SORB page? There are a lot more instructional videos than before and a comprehensive manual.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/Sorb_Videos.html

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/text/SELECTED%20Book%20Final%20Draft%203.pdf

http://groups.google.com/group/thetacticalathlete

Does anyone have experience with the kind of foot care recommended here? I haven't heard anything about reducing callouses and making the skin soft. He didn't provide any reason why this is better than toughening up the foot.

On a side note, I have heard from a couple different QPs that tincture of benzoine is not allowed at SFAS. If that is true, why would they recommend that in the videos?

Masochist
03-27-2010, 17:11
Does anyone have experience with the kind of foot care recommended here? I haven't heard anything about reducing callouses and making the skin soft. He didn't provide any reason why this is better than toughening up the foot.

On a side note, I have heard from a couple different QPs that tincture of benzoine is not allowed at SFAS. If that is true, why would they recommend that in the videos?

Actually, a few months ago (before I came across this) I found similar information and decided to try it.

Almost two decades of built-up calluses from walking around barefoot all my life came off in a few ginormous hunks a year or so ago after a particularly long hike. If anyone has ever developed a blister under about a dozen layers of hardened skin, it was similar to that, leaving my feet as tender as a newborn baby's bottom. I was thoroughly upset, as that hard-earned layer of protection had pretty much kept my feet blister free the majority of my life. Now that my feet are more susceptible to damage, I've tried to find ways to either quickly rebuild that toughness or mitigate the damage to my soft soles.

Using an apricot-seed exfoliant on the bottoms of my feet every few weeks, using moisturizer immediately after, along with the standard footcare while hiking, have helped keep my feet mostly out of trouble while they don't have the same callous armor from before. YMMV, but IMHO it's not a bad method to try.

MILON
03-28-2010, 05:45
I just returned from SFAS and you cannot bring tincture of benzoine into the course, but the medics there do have it on hand. They are very good about giving out supplies used to treat blisters. I didnt choose to use it, but I think you just have to ask for it.

frostfire
03-28-2010, 09:11
Has anyone tried the "new" workouts on the SORB page? There are a lot more instructional videos than before and a comprehensive manual.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/Sorb_Videos.html

http://www.bragg.army.mil/sorb/text/SELECTED%20Book%20Final%20Draft%203.pdf

http://groups.google.com/group/thetacticalathlete

thanks for pointing this out. It validates my workout regiment, primarily tons of sprints, core (bridges & planks), lunges, and the good 'ol EDT

Speedgod
04-01-2010, 21:12
I've been running in the pool to further ingrain the POSE running technique. Shift center of gravity forward, keep arms above the head (if arms move in the water too, the training of the feet is hindered), then "fall" forward and keep pulling the feet forward-up. It's easy on the knees and joints too, but the muscles get worked from the water resistance.

Additionally, I found out the bottom of your feet develop hot spots rather fast after 500yards or so of back n forth in the pool. Well, dry it up, put some isopropyl alcohol and voila! Building calluses and toughening the feet!

I started doing it by accident after observing someone doing the same and recalling the pool physical training given to injured cross country athletes when I was life-guarding. BTW, in regards to swimming, I highly recommend learning Combat Side Stroke for anyone wanting to swim further. Even a weak swimmer like me who couldn't last beyond 300 yds doing freestyle could do 500 yards in 10:30 w/o getting smoked.

FF,

I started running in the pool after some swimming. I am running for about 8minutes and I can alrewady tell the difference on my feet. Looking forward to my next drill rsp weekend as we are hiking.
Thanks FF for the pool tip.

SG

Memento_Mori
06-04-2010, 22:38
Can anyone better acquainted with the physical requirements for SFAS, and beyond, comment on the efficacy of the workout regimen prescribed by the new SORB page? I have read plenty of posts regarding the use of a sandbag, a trx system, etc, but I am curious what everyone thinks of the specific program posted on the page.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

Dack
10-18-2010, 21:19
"thanks for pointing this out. It validates my workout regiment, primarily tons of sprints, core (bridges & planks), lunges, and the good 'ol EDT "

If you can try to mix in some Olympic lifts i.e. dead lifts, squats, ect... I believe the program at www.sealfit.com is very good at developing core strength for those who are pursuing that particular area.

frostfire
05-01-2011, 01:44
Due to pollen invasion, I've been confined to running on treadmill. Itchy/watery eyes are not conducive to healing, and I'm sure the drivers/motorists/other runners won't appreciate my running half blind.

I've been noticing significant improvement. No fancy training, no fartlek, 30/60 etc. Just plain sprinting. Pick a pace that's borderline uncomfortable, then hold that pace as long as possible. Just 0.1 mile more or just one more minute: Trick the mind by dividing large goal into smaller, more managable pieces ie. "if you have to eat a sh*t sandwich, eat one slice at a time." This may seem pathetic to some, but I finally got a 6:27 pace down. Keep in mind this is from someone who used to huff and puff only after 500 yards, and thought 7:00 as unfathomable. I also recall that I used treadmill to get the shuffle-run 13min pace for rucking down back in college. By shuffling, there isn't much pounding on both the knees and the treadmill. It easily transitioned to the Matta mile terrain, so it was good training.

Tons of critiques out there against treadmill: boring, monotonous, not representative of "real" running, and so on. Well, it's just another tool, and IMHOO just like marksmanship, it's the user, then the tool. Make it work. Like this lady for example:

"Women's winner Carrie Pustilnik, of Delray Beach, is a mother of three daughters who works two jobs. She does virtually all of her training on a treadmill in her garage, waking up at 4:30 every morning to put in 8 to 10 miles before getting her kids ready for school.

Pustilnik, 33, was happy to get her breakthrough win in Fort Lauderdale because she made her marathon debut in this race three years ago on a whim. She has since channeled the same tenacity into running that made her a star in tennis at Spanish River High and the University of Tennessee as Carrie Spinner.

Considering her daily schedule of training, working in the morning as a sales representative and in the afternoon as a fitness trainer for kids at The Gymm Zone, plus tending to three daughters ages 3 to 8, winning the marathon may have been the easiest part of her week.

Pustilnik said confining her marathon training to the treadmill is easier on her body than running on roads. It's effective, as her winning time of 2:58:29 was almost 11 minutes faster than runner-up Shelby Speno of Parkland.

"When I run a marathon, I'm like an animal let out of a cage," Pustilnik said. "This is a peaceful three hours for me. It's a pleasure."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2010-02-21/sports/fl-a1a-marathon-lead-0222-20100221_1_previous-marathons-a1a-marathon-marathon-debut

As mentioned once, I only used one kind of drug: Audio drug. Playlists like the following: youtube.com/watch?v=lOJqicM6x84 , youtube.com/watch?v=2kxJ7UjDqO4 , youtube.com/watch?v=BQMpRWuT6hk, youtube.com/watch?v=dWWPJo0vq_Q .....usw. Take your mind right off that small gym corner to your epic/colossal movie :D

Again, the critiques will say no one wears mp3 player during unit run, APFT, at SFAS etc. Well, borrowing from WM A. Robbins stuff in Get Selected and Master Gene Econ on mental conditioning: How do you achieve goals? By having assured confidence. How do you get assured confidence? By winning, and achieving goals. It has to start somewhere. When you surpass physical goal even with the aid of music, you know your body is capable of such feat. That serves as a mental anchor that you can pull from when it's starting to suck. "I can do this. I've done it before. Just another mile, just another minute...etc."

Masochist
05-01-2011, 10:08
Not a fan of the treadmill either, but sometimes it's a necessary evil. Tough to run outside when it's single digits and you have a couple feet of snow on the roads. Saw a CPT do a figure 8 with his leg last year on a snowy ruck march, and have begrudgingly gone indoors since when Mother Nature doesn't want to cooperate.

As mentioned once, I only used one kind of drug: Audio drug. Playlists like the following: youtube.com/watch?v=lOJqicM6x84 , youtube.com/watch?v=2kxJ7UjDqO4 , youtube.com/watch?v=BQMpRWuT6hk, youtube.com/watch?v=dWWPJo0vq_Q .....usw. Take your mind right off that small gym corner to your epic/colossal movie :D

Again, the critiques will say no one wears mp3 player during unit run, APFT, at SFAS etc. Well, borrowing from WM A. Robbins stuff in Get Selected and Master Gene Econ on mental conditioning: How do you achieve goals? By having assured confidence. How do you get assured confidence? By winning, and achieving goals. It has to start somewhere. When you surpass physical goal even with the aid of music, you know your body is capable of such feat. That serves as a mental anchor that you can pull from when it's starting to suck. "I can do this. I've done it before. Just another mile, just another minute...etc."

As for music, I too use the audio drug sometimes during training. I've found it works well for those with trouble pacing themselves, and comes in handy when you finally have to take the headphones off and do an APFT or ruck. I would sing (to myself, of course) the songs whose beat I know would keep me on a certain pace. Just make sure to diversify what sticks in your head. Four hours straight of "SexyBack" can border on insanity. :eek:

Xamine
12-16-2011, 23:17
I actually came across something new (To me at least) called "Horsemen Training Program", It looks pretty interesting so i might give it a try in the near future.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55818603/Horsemen-Training-Program-i-1

Sarski
12-17-2011, 08:16
After hitting a wall about 10 years ago, I started jogging again. Started jogging as a kid around 11 or 12 years old. Been doin it all my life. Even out at sea I would run 3 miles a day on the steel decks just to stay in shape. On land 8-10 miles a day, 5-6 days a week. Then around 30 years old I hit the wall.

I just stopped. There were a few times I'd be motivated and go out and do 1.5 miles, feel good and all ready to start again, but the next day would come around and nada.

Well, it's been two weeks now and I have jogged a couple days a week now, and feeling good about it. It has always been something that I missed, because I used to enjoy it so much.

I'm just taking it light an easy, a couple days a week now. I am enjoying it just fine, and it is the most consistent jogging I have done in 10 years.

Burn out, and hitting the wall are some real bummers. It's not the same runners high that I used to get, but it's a great feeling to be re-exploring something that I used to love doing so much.

Also, I have kept up a physically active lifestyle w/o the running, doing other activities and exercise. But for now at least, it seems that jogging is back on my plate.

Buffalobob
12-18-2011, 14:59
Well being 63 YO and retired I concentrate on exercises that helps my two hobbies which are: hunting and then some more hunting. :D

I jog slowly about 3 miles of up hill and downhill some few days of the week and if my knees or the weather gets bad I will just hike around for an hour or so on other days. I do some upper body exercises so I can pull my 70# bow and hold it for three or four minutes. I have an old bow that I use for exercises some times but I find an old bicycle inner tube cut for a stretchy device to be a good substitute for it. It is also good exercises for IPSCA or IDPA.

DevilSide
12-19-2011, 04:35
Well being 63 YO and retired I concentrate on exercises that helps my two hobbies which are: hunting and then some more hunting. :D

I jog slowly about 3 miles of up hill and downhill some few days of the week and if my knees or the weather gets bad I will just hike around for an hour or so on other days. I do some upper body exercises so I can pull my 70# bow and hold it for three or four minutes. I have an old bow that I use for exercises some times but I find an old bicycle inner tube cut for a stretchy device to be a good substitute for it. It is also good exercises for IPSCA or IDPA.

I must say that's very good, better than me actually, I would hate to run hills.

GratefulCitizen
04-19-2015, 19:44
Posting this so that it may help others get ideas for their own training.

Decided to return to the gym, and also needed a program for my 14 year-old.
Considered the various training programs done in the past, their efficacy, and researched why/hows of various results before making a plan.

Goals/considerations/restrictions/principles/etc.:

-Simplicity
-Improves general health/ joint stability, etc.
-Low risk of injury
-Maximum results for training time invested (Pareto principle)
-Self-adjusting to changing fatigue levels, etc.
-Doesn't cause undue stress or fatigue which might interfere with work or other activities.
-Increases strength and speed (always finish strength goals before moving on to endurance)
-Validated by results in others

What I came up with is basically what I did while in the best shape of my life 14-15 years ago.
It's based on techniques and research used for athletes in the former Soviet Union (they measured/tracked EVERYTHING).

Workouts consist of 2 compound exercises designed to hit everything in the body.
I chose power snatches and flat bench.

Other combinations which would work might be: clean and press/weighted pull-up or deadlift/flat bench.
It's more difficult to combine something with a squat program, and would likely require 2 other exercises to avoid imbalances in the internal/external rotators of the shoulder.

The way I run mine they're really just 2 programs run in parallel, they are normally done on alternate days for a 6 day per week workout schedule.
Each exercise is done 3 times per week with a day rest before hitting the same exercise again.

Raw 1RM was determined/estimated (no belts, wraps, etc.)
Workouts should be done without belts, wraps, etc.

If you can't do it without aids, use a lighter weight.

"Core" workout weight intensity (% of RM) was chosen to maximize power output in the lift.
For these lifts, I chose 80% for the core workout weight intensity, it could vary by person and movement, but shouldn't be over 85% and generally isn't less than 70% except for maybe deadlifts.

The weight should be light enough that you can move it quickly, but heavy enough that you're not "throwing" it.
<edit> Technically, you are "throwing" the weight in power snatch /power clean, but these are fairly self-adjusting because of the large amplitudes.

Training cycle runs 6 weeks then a rest week is taken.
New 1RM is determined somewhere during rest week.

Cycle is repeated using new 1RM to determine workout weight intensity.
After 2-3 cycles, a two-week rest break is taken.

The same exercises can be used from cycle to cycle.
They can also be changed, particularly if plateaus are reached or if different effects are desired.

Core workout should have a workout "volume" of around "1000%".
Workout volume is determined by total workout reps x intensity, warmup doesn't count (In my case the core workout is 80% x 12 reps = 960%).

The number of reps done in a set is up to the individual, but sets should NOT be done to failure.
Decent form and good bar speed (going up) should be maintained every rep, reps in a set should be few enough to serve this purpose.

Rest between sets should be until you feel subjectively "ready".
You don't have to push it, but you can so long as performance doesn't significantly degrade.

I never do more than 6 reps in a set, and found that more than 2 isn't really necessary, except for saving time in the gym.
Generally have seen better results using fewer reps and more sets, especially with the core workout.

Every rep should be a 100% "effort", moving the bar/weight up as fast as possible (allowing for safety...).
Fred Hatfield calls this "compensetory acceleration".

18 workouts in the cycle.
The intensity (% 1RM) doesn't change for the first half of the cycle.

It looks complicated, but it isn't.
Just get out the pocket calculator.

Workout schedule:
1- Core (around 1000% volume)
2- Core x 1.5 volume
3- Core
4- Core x 2 volume
5- Core
6- Core x 2.5 volume
7- Core
8- Core x 3 volume
9- Core
10- Raise intensity to core + 5%, volume should be around 2100%.
11- Core
12- Raise intensity to core + 10%, volume should be around 1500%.
13- Core
14- Raise intensity to core + 15%, volume should be around 900%.
15- Core
16- Raise intensity to core + 20%, volume should be around 400%.
17- Core
18- Raise intensity to core + 25%, volume should be around 200%.

The core workouts start to become very easy towards the end of the cycle, and you might be tempted to do more or skip ahead in the schedule.
DON'T.

Just like with medications, there is a therapeutic dose.
The easy days are there by design.

I'm in my second cycle right now, and have found the program to be highly compatible with the variable and unpredictable workloads associated with my manual labor job.
My son is in his first cycle, and things are working well for him.

Strength levels went up by about 20% after the first cycle, and this cycle is looking to get similar gains.
Much of these rapid gains are just a function of "retaking old ground" and will soon diminish.

Haven't had much soreness, though I did notice some CNS fatigue symptoms while volume was peaking.
Joints are feeling better, except for the wrists, but they aren't any worse.

Body fat is slowly dropping, and there is visible general hypertrophy (though that isn't a goal).
Practical day-to-day strength is much higher, and there's a new "spring" in my step.

General energy levels/ fatigue resistance/ recovery/ mood are much better.
Healing a little more quickly from minor wounds, too.

Back when I did this (and a few other minor things) at age 29, I could bench 325lbs for 2 reps, standing broad jump almost 10 ft, run a sub-6 minute mile at high altitude, and crush some decently long road bike rides without any specific training.
Never trained push-ups, but tested it and got 93 reps, so training muscular endurance proved to be unnecessary.

The point of the program is to improve general strength and fitness while leaving enough in the gas tank to pursue other things or more specific training.
It worked for me.

YMMV.

GratefulCitizen
08-22-2015, 16:37
Goals/considerations/restrictions/principles/etc.:

-Simplicity
-Improves general health/ joint stability, etc.
-Low risk of injury
-Maximum results for training time invested (Pareto principle)
-Self-adjusting to changing fatigue levels, etc.
-Doesn't cause undue stress or fatigue which might interfere with work or other activities.
-Increases strength and speed (always finish strength goals before moving on to endurance)
-Validated by results in others


Been at this program 7 months now.
Getting ready to start another cycle.

Status on goals:
-It has been simple to implement and sustain.
-Joints are all doing fantastic, general health is doing fine.
-No injuries.
-I'm satisfied with the results relative to training time.
-It has been very effective in terms of self-adjustment.
-Has been completely compatible with long work weeks and a manual labor job, fatigue and soreness haven't been excessive.
-Strength has steadily increased, haven't tested speed.
-Proving effective with my son as well.


Starting out, I hadn't done any serious weight training for more than a decade.

At the time: just shy of 43 years old, not quite 6'2" barefoot, weighed about 170 lbs.
-Would've been lucky to put up 190lbs for a single on flat bench then, and did 95 lbs for the core weight in high-catch power snatches.

At the end of this cycle: weigh about 175 lbs, body fat is a little lower now.
-Put up 280 lbs on flat bench (with room to spare) for 4 singles last week, barely missed 295 lbs.
-Used 135 lbs for the core weight on power snatches.

Recently, I haven't been trying to make the catch on the heavier power snatch workouts within a cycle (too hard on the rotator cuff muscles) and just did high pulls instead.
There's some technique/skill issues to address, but I'm still getting the bar 5 1/2 - 6' off the ground for the 150-160 lb pulls, probably enough for a high catch.
In terms of powerlifting, the deadlift is normally about 3x your high-catch power snatch.

Back strength and grip strength have come along well (I don't use the "hook grip" on power snatches, but may need to if the weight keeps climbing).
Hands-only rope climbs are easy, haven't tried pull-ups, but there's probably similar transfer.

Overall functional strength is doing well.
Helped a bar back change out a full keg (half-barrel) last month.
Could pick it up, put it on my shoulder, duck through doorways, and handle it like it was a toy.
Similar stunt was quite difficult 2 years ago.


My son is 15 years old, about 6' 3" barefoot, around 145lbs, hardly any body fat.
He has a 6' 6" wingspan, with most of it coming from arms rather than shoulder width or hand length.
He's been doing this about 6 months.
Starting out, he couldn't quite get 95 lbs on flat bench, and could just barely catch 65lbs on power snatch.
He put up 140 lbs on flat bench last week, and catches 100 lbs (way up there...) on power snatch with room to spare.
Subjectively, he's observed dramatically improved quickness/explosiveness on the basketball court as well as significant improvements in everyday functional strength.


Gonna keep on the program for a few more cycles, and see how much the progress continues.
Seems to be working.


Some things learned:
-Taking a long, hot shower just before working out (especially in winter) has made a HUGE difference in preventing soreness, particularly with joints/tendons.
-Erring on the side of picking lighter weights/shorter sets for/within a training cycle is better than picking heavier weights/longer sets.
-When doing 2 workouts the same day (different exercises) it's better to separate them into 2 sessions than doing them in one long workout session.
-Tend to get better progress when the workouts are kept under 45 minutes.
-Resist the urge to change the programmed lifts during a cycle. Just see it through to the end and adjust weight levels in the subsequent cycle (recycling the same weight if necessary).
-Don't worry about how you "feel", follow the programming.
-Don't do extra stuff in the gym, follow the programming.

GratefulCitizen
05-08-2016, 15:26
My return to weight training has been going for a little over a year now.
Happy with results thus far.

My father got back into pretty good shape several times after age 40.
He said it takes about 2 years when you're older, and pushing too hard to get it back faster than that just results in injury or burnout.

Tried substituting heavy snatch-grip high pulls off the blocks (using straps) in place of power snatches last August/September.
Along with the heavy flat bench, it turned out to be too much.

Was hitting all my lifts that cycle through the first month.
Had a workout near the end programmed for 9 singles at 285lbs on bench, and could only get the first 3.

The burnout was obvious.
Took a month off from the gym, and reassessed goals.

Decided to look for weaknesses and found them in leg strength, core strength and mobility.
Got a proper pair of weighlifting shoes and addressed them by working on ATG high-bar squats and standing strict barbell presses.

Had to do all sorts of mobility work, especially with the ankles, and started going to a massage therapist regularly.
Squatted (form work, not much weight) 4-6 days per week most weeks from some time in late November until mid February.

Strict presses came along well.
Used the programming described in an earlier post, hit 175lbs easily on New Year's Eve (was pretty happy with that, as it was within a few pounds of my body weight).

Did one more training cycle after that with a mix of strict presses and later push presses for the heavier loading.
Hit 205lbs on push press in mid February.

With the newly won mobility, exploring the benefits of the Olympic lifts had some appeal.
Checked my ratios (power snatch/full snatch/squat/press) and made a plan.

Squat strength was way behind explosive power and pressing strength, and technique was seriously lacking.
On the good side, that explosive power normally falls behind strength as you age, so it's not a bad place to be.

Programming now is similar to the previous method, but 3 exercises are done in one workout now.
Programming is based on full snatch, adding clean and push press at 125% of the workout's snatch weight and squats at 150% of snatch weight.

Normally go to the gym 3 times per week now (not counting scheduled rest weeks).
Been making sure to get the workouts done in under 60 minutes, including warmup.

Very happy with current training results.

Consistently weighing about 180lbs (at a little under 6'2" barefoot).
Not sure about body fat %, but waist is small.
All of my joints joints have plenty of mobility and never suffer any aches/pains, other than thumbs (still conditioning to hook grip).
Never feel fatigued or challenged physically at my manual labor job.
Have plenty of strength to do pretty much anything I want outside the weight room.
Usually get marvelous sleep.

On the down side, it's actually difficult to eat enough calories to maintain or gain weight (should still be slowly gaining, given the stage of training).
The good side, beer consumption is only limited by alcohol processing abilities.
:D

Two things learned in the past 6 months:
Mental intensity -relax, save the "psycho strength" for the last few heavy workouts of a training cycle.
Food -supporting this training takes calories. Lots of calories.

Probably have another 9-10 months before being fully "in shape".
Definitely going to keep this as a lifelong habit.

Abu Jack
05-08-2016, 15:45
Expanded my bicycle racing from cyclocross to doing an every other week critireum on Tuesday nights. They are alot of fun. The good thing about this course is that it's in the state fairground parking lot, so, no curbs. If you have to leave the course to avoid something there's room.

xollie316
05-09-2016, 01:53
I've been doing Stronglifts 5x5 for about 15 months and have really enjoyed it. Basic weight lifting routine with Workout A: bench, squat, bent over row. Workout B: overhead press, squat, deadlift. All done for 5 reps x 5 sets with the exception of deadlifts which is 1x set of 5x reps. There are additional exercises I supplemented with after about 6 months: weighted dips, pull ups, and chin ups.

I do some accessory lifts after I've completely the heavy lifts just to add hypertrophy and get a better pump :lifter

5x5 bench weight has gone from 185 --> 265 lbs

5x5 OHP weight 95 --> 145 lbs

5x5 row weight 135 --> 215 lbs

5x5 squat weight 95 --> 235 lbs

1x5 deadlift 185 --> 335 lbs

3x5 weighted dips. body weight only --> 120 lbs

Noting my starting weights weren't my 'max' when I started but a weight I knew I could do and not break myself or get overly sore so I could let the progression do it's work.

No secret or anything ground breaking to it. The app is simple and creates graphs and charts for all your progress so I enjoy it.

GratefulCitizen
05-11-2016, 23:50
I've been doing Stronglifts 5x5 for about 15 months and have really enjoyed it. Basic weight lifting routine with Workout A: bench, squat, bent over row. Workout B: overhead press, squat, deadlift. All done for 5 reps x 5 sets with the exception of deadlifts which is 1x set of 5x reps. There are additional exercises I supplemented with after about 6 months: weighted dips, pull ups, and chin ups.

I do some accessory lifts after I've completely the heavy lifts just to add hypertrophy and get a better pump :lifter

5x5 bench weight has gone from 185 --> 265 lbs

5x5 OHP weight 95 --> 145 lbs

5x5 row weight 135 --> 215 lbs

5x5 squat weight 95 --> 235 lbs

1x5 deadlift 185 --> 335 lbs

3x5 weighted dips. body weight only --> 120 lbs

Noting my starting weights weren't my 'max' when I started but a weight I knew I could do and not break myself or get overly sore so I could let the progression do it's work.

No secret or anything ground breaking to it. The app is simple and creates graphs and charts for all your progress so I enjoy it.

That's an awesome program.
From what I've heard, given consistent hard training and sufficient food, most healthy men of at least average height hit 1RM of about 300/400/500 in bench/squat(low bar)/deadlift within 2-3 years on that program.

After taking the winter off, this is exactly the program my son is starting.
He's working on squat mobility right now (high bar ATG squats), once that's grooved, he'll be on it.

The 5x5 program is similar to what I used during foundational strength building back in my mid 20s.
It was 5x5 for workout A and 5-3-2-1-1 escalating weight for workout B.

Did them for squats twice per week (A/B) and bench twice per week (A/B).
Progression was based on whether lifts were made on the B workout.

Did back work on bench days (or the day after) and shoulder work on squat days (or the day after).
Took my bench to a 1RM of 320lbs and my squat(low bar) to a 5RM of 385lbs in about 2 years, at a body weight in the low 180lbs range.

Plateaued there and had to change things up to simultaneously maintain different training goals.
5x5 barbell compound lifts make for an awesome foundational program.

xollie316
05-13-2016, 00:07
That's an awesome program.
From what I've heard, given consistent hard training and sufficient food, most healthy men of at least average height hit 1RM of about 300/400/500 in bench/squat(low bar)/deadlift within 2-3 years on that program.

After taking the winter off, this is exactly the program my son is starting.
He's working on squat mobility right now (high bar ATG squats), once that's grooved, he'll be on it.


Plateaued there and had to change things up to simultaneously maintain different training goals.
5x5 barbell compound lifts make for an awesome foundational program.

Nice! Yea the 5x5 compound lift routine is certainly not new or complicated, just a great base. Helped me a lot in the transition from 'running, rucking, push ups, pull ups' of the infantry / old army PT mindset to becoming bigger, stronger, faster.

If I extrapolate out my 15 months to 3 years I should be roughly at the 300/400/500 splits even given the diminishing returns. Bench and dips sky rocketed way past everything else just due to experience with push ups, chest workouts in the past. I had really never done anything but body weight squats (and all wrong, I've re-worked my form with a weight lifting coach to go full high bar ass-to-grass now. Feels way better but definitely took a couple months of form and mobility practice) so my lower body has definitely progressed slower but I enjoy it.

That 5x squat max is extreme! Repping twice your body+ is a great goal. I'm definitely working towards it.

Not surprisingly, when I'm deployed and deprived of alcohol and other distractions my lifts make the biggest gains. Strange...

Good luck to your son! Once the form and mobility are there, the weight increases easily.

GratefulCitizen
05-13-2016, 02:04
Nice! Yea the 5x5 compound lift routine is certainly not new or complicated, just a great base. Helped me a lot in the transition from 'running, rucking, push ups, pull ups' of the infantry / old army PT mindset to becoming bigger, stronger, faster.

If I extrapolate out my 15 months to 3 years I should be roughly at the 300/400/500 splits even given the diminishing returns. Bench and dips sky rocketed way past everything else just due to experience with push ups, chest workouts in the past. I had really never done anything but body weight squats (and all wrong, I've re-worked my form with a weight lifting coach to go full high bar ass-to-grass now. Feels way better but definitely took a couple months of form and mobility practice) so my lower body has definitely progressed slower but I enjoy it.

That 5x squat max is extreme! Repping twice your body+ is a great goal. I'm definitely working towards it.

Not surprisingly, when I'm deployed and deprived of alcohol and other distractions my lifts make the biggest gains. Strange...

Good luck to your son! Once the form and mobility are there, the weight increases easily.

Nice thing about ATG squats and strict presses is that you're able to make big strength gains (which also transfer to other heavier lifts) while using lighter weights.
Safer, more real-world transfer, and you can train harder; it's good that they're included in that program.

IIRC, for someone who primarily trains high bar squats, and has good thoracic strength, the ratio of high bar/low bar is around 90%.
The ratio tends to be farther apart for those with weak upper backs.

Leozinho
06-23-2016, 10:10
I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.

I tested my max pull-ups then took that number and divided it in half. Then I perform a set of that number of pull-ups through out the day, every day. The key is never going to failure. I might do 10 or 15 sets during the day.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/greasing-the-groove-how-to-make-it-work-for-you

We shall see. I'm only doing it because I can't get to the gym for a few weeks but do have a pull-up bar.

frostfire
06-24-2016, 04:52
I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.


Lot of merit in that theory IMHO. A lot of the 100 push up prog. etc follows the principle. Also, one of the beneficial side effect is injury prevention. I do the same with dry fire/holding exercise, replacing the pistol with 15lbs wt

tim180a
06-24-2016, 07:19
I started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu about six months ago. I get a fantastic workout and it help me deal with mobility issues. Fun stuff!

Love the Strong First website. I do Pavel's kettlebell workout several times a week. Also started swinging the mace once in a while...

I will not grow old gracefully.

Leozinho
07-01-2016, 15:34
I'm currently "Greasing the Groove" with pull-ups, as made popular by Pavel Tsatsouline.

I tested my max pull-ups then took that number and divided it in half. Then I perform a set of that number of pull-ups through out the day, every day. The key is never going to failure. I might do 10 or 15 sets during the day.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/greasing-the-groove-how-to-make-it-work-for-you

We shall see. I'm only doing it because I can't get to the gym for a few weeks but do have a pull-up bar.

Two weeks or so in and I have a little tendinitis in one elbow (never had it before.). I suppose its easy to go overboard with the volume. I've certainly done more reps with GTG than if I would have done a more typical pull-up program of 3 sets of 10 reps threemdays a week.

I've voodoo flossed it, which makes the elbow feel great but I'm not sure if flossing actually cures the tendinitis. If the tendinitis doesn't clear up I'll drop GTG. No sense developing a bad case of tendinitis.

Voodoo flossing = wrapping a bicycle inner tube very tightly around the elbow and then working the elbow through the range of motion. No one knows why it seems to work. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZG_9O_mAgM

Leozinho
07-01-2016, 15:49
I started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu about six months ago. I get a fantastic workout and it help me deal with mobility issues. Fun stuff!

Love the Strong First website. I do Pavel's kettlebell workout several times a week. Also started swinging the mace once in a while...

I will not grow old gracefully.

I've done a 180 on Pavel. I read some of his stuff 12 years ago and couldn't stand the "Comrade" and "Russians know best" shtick. Now I think he is the master of getting more out of less - which is great because the sad fact is that some of the masochistic workouts I did at age 30 are counterproductive at age 43. (And were probably counterproductive then too, but I really can tell now).

GratefulCitizen
07-01-2016, 17:34
Two weeks or so in and I have a little tendinitis in one elbow (never had it before.). I suppose its easy to go overboard with the volume. I've certainly done more reps with GTG than if I would have done a more typical pull-up program of 3 sets of 10 reps threemdays a week.

I've voodoo flossed it, which makes the elbow feel great but I'm not sure if flossing actually cures the tendinitis. If the tendinitis doesn't clear up I'll drop GTG. No sense developing a bad case of tendinitis.

Voodoo flossing = wrapping a bicycle inner tube very tightly around the elbow and then working the elbow through the range of motion. No one knows why it seems to work. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GZG_9O_mAgM

Cut the volume in half for about a week.
Week three is where most overuse injuries happen.

Another strategy employed by the Soviets/Russians with great success was volume variation.
I use it with everything and have no joint/tendon soreness or issues anymore.

In the case of my weight training, it's just alternating a low volume "core" workout with a progessive workout (progressing in volume and/or intensity).
Scheduled rest weeks (every six weeks or so) seem to help, too.

A way to do volume variation with pull-ups might go like this:

Figure out the total number of pull-ups you'll be doing over a period of training (say 4 weeks) allowing for progression by the end.
As an arbitrary example, call it 4000 pull-ups (number is probably more appropriate for a push-up program, but it makes the math easier).

Divide that volume into 4 unequal parts, with a zig-zag progression.
An example would be 700 for week 1, 1100 for week 2, 800 for week 3, and 1400 for week 4.

Then, within each week, do the same thing (except here, you can repeat the same volume on light days).
An example would be for week 1: 70 on days 1, 3, and 5, 140 on day 2, 160 on day 4, 190 on day 6, rest on day 7.

Do something similar with each of the remaining weeks.
This assumes all of the sets are of the about same size (IIRC, it's half your max on that program).

Take a rest week, test your new max somewhere near the end of that week, and program a new training schedule.

The Russians found that this volume variation was much easier on athletes' bodies and helped to avoid "staleness".
It's worked well for me in avoiding joint/tendon issues.

HTH.

GratefulCitizen
10-22-2016, 19:29
Started a training experiment about a year ago.
Quit doing serious bench press training in late September 2015 (heaviest lift: 285lbs) and haven't done bench press at all since November 11, 2015.

After addressing various weaknesses and playing with the O-lifts through the winter and spring, it was back to somewhat standard training.
Did standing strict barbell presses, weighted chin-ups, and high bar squats using the progression scheme outlined in an earlier post.

Neglected direct stimulation of the lower chest (no bench presses of any sort, no flys, no dips, and fewer than 100 total push-ups in the last year).
The chest did get some indirect work from strict presses and chin-ups.

After taking several weeks off from the gym, decided to check the results of the experiment.
At nearly 45 years old, 6'2", 185lbs, and about a year of neglecting direct training, bench pressed 255lbs without much strain.

A six week dedicated training cycle would probably push that number much higher, due to neural efficiency (skill).
Basically lost no real foundational strength in a year, and probably gained.

Conclusion:
Not convinced the bench press is a required primary exercise for strength training, though it's certainly a useful accessory.
The push press, strict press, or weighted dip provide most of the same benefits plus other benefits.

MOO, YMMV.

jw74
10-30-2016, 11:34
Conclusion:
Not convinced the bench press is a required primary exercise for strength training, though it's certainly a useful accessory.
The push press, strict press, or weighted dip provide most of the same benefits plus other benefits.

MOO, YMMV.

I'm with you. I have found that push ups and dips maintain my chest strength really well. I bench occasionally to see where I am at but I have taken long stretches of time off of benching and found that I am around 90 % of my max by just doing body weight exercises. Usually now I choose dumbbell press over traditional bench anyway because I dont workout with a spotter.
A side benefit is I can do a lot more sets of dips in the time it takes to rack bench up. more intensity and less time spent at the gym.

GratefulCitizen
05-14-2017, 19:24
Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out there, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html

Brush Okie
05-14-2017, 20:12
Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out their, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html

Thanks for the link.

What about stretching? Are you doing a good post workout stretch?

tonyz
05-14-2017, 21:24
Been back in training for a little over two years.
Pretty much "in shape" now.

Training is no longer quite as structured.
I'll still use the 6-week training cycle listed in an earlier post if there's something specific I want to develop.

Worked on standing strict press some through the winter.
Have strict pressed 185lbs on a few different occasions without much trouble (at a body weight of 180-185lbs).

Squat mobility is fantastic, and there is no pain in any joint in my body.
I don't ever max in the squat (or very often in other lifts), as the risk/reward ratio usually isn't worth it.

Boiled down training now to high-frequency volume accumulation doing power clean/push press and weighted chin-ups at an estimated 80% max.
Along with continued squat mobility work, this works the entire body quite effectively.

What I've learned:
-Most training should focus on compound exercises which use the largest possible safe range of motion and work the desired muscle groups.
-Intensity (weight on the bar) should usually be between 70-85% of 1RM for the given exercise.
-Do not train to failure except on rare occasions (always leave a rep or 2 in the tank).
-A break down in form/technique is failure.
-The most important training "measurement" is probably weekly training volume.
-Spreading out training volume over more days (i.e. 6 half-volume days vs 3 full-volume days) is more effective.
-If you usually feel great after training, and you're not making progress, do a little more volume.
-If you usually feel crummy after training, and you're not making progress, do a little less volume.
-Given sufficient training stimulus, the most important factors are food and sleep.
-Taking up to 3 weeks off at a time doesn't seem to affect long-term progress.
-If you can afford it, a good massage therapist is a wise investment.


Pretty happy with the journey thus far.
Have to decide how far to take it.

Even at this age, there's room for further strength gains (only weigh 180-185lbs at 6'2").
Just have to decide how much weight I'm willing to gain.

For the older guys out their, here's a pretty good link to some age-rated general strength standards:
http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html

Yup, thanks for that link.

GratefulCitizen
05-14-2017, 21:39
Thanks for the link.

What about stretching? Are you doing a good post workout stretch?

Work through necessary ROM as part of the warmup.
"Warmup" is really more of a nervous system thing than it is a temperature thing (though this matters in cold weather).

Hit the bone limit on squats, and shoulder ROM isn't a problem, so I don't stretch much anymore.
Flexibility and FUNCTIONAL mobility aren't the same thing.

If someone isn't able to apply meaningful force at a specific joint angle, there are few reasons (perhaps performing arts) to have flexibility which exceeds mobility.
It's just asking for injury.

Your body will stop at a certain range of motion in order to protect itself.
Strength should be present through the full range of motion.

I could probably use a little more hamstring ROM, but tight hamstrings are protective of the knees, and I'm not prone to hamstring pulls.
Might be different if I was running (fast).

Leozinho
05-31-2017, 21:41
I'm doing Pavel's Simple & Sinister kettlebell program.

10 one arm swings x 10 (50 each side for a total of 100) followed by 10 Turkish Get Ups. Time standard is 5 minutes for the swings, one minute break, and 10 minutes for the getups.

You can do this 5-7 days a week.

But you don't go all out every workout. Maybe you test yourself once a week. The rest of the time you take enough rest between sets of swings so that your heart rate stays down and you don't go glycolytic.

It's a very minimal program and that you can do everyday. Not what I would do for SFAS, but would be a good deployment program since it doesn't leave you depleted and worn out. You could finish the workout and get straight on the truck without having to worry about being fatigued.

I'm closing in on doing this with a 32kg/70lb pound bell, which is the 'Simple' standard. Sinister is doing it in the time standard with a 106lb/48kg bell.

I plan to move to something else when I reach Simple, but I can see coming back to this.