View Full Version : Ukraine, What if you were losing the battle?
What if you spent Bizzillians on a bit of conflict, lost 10s of thousands of young Comrades, in 12 months, your total efforts have amounted to an expensive stalemate, and the folks at home were getting fed up with your shenanigans and are talking about your replacement.
So, You call your buddy Veygeny who runs a vast and righteously formidable mercenary army. Who, by the way, is the only one making any positive PR effect on your proxy war.
And you say,,
1) get the boys together and make like you are going to unseat me with a coup.
2) spread rumors that the rest of the armed forces support you.
3) after a couple of days, we "negotiate" your troops' surrender
4) you go to Belarus for a vacation then take command of my nuclear stash
5) we will have several kangaroo courts and dispose of several generals that were supporting your "coup."
The results
1) the homies are scared and think that I can't be removed
2) Veygeny gets safe passage to Belarus where he can't be prosecuted for war crimes
3) the UN, EU, and NATO become concerned
4) I am still an a$$ho and still in power
IDK, but I think this coup was staged.
Change my mind. :munching
Wagner chief moving to Belarus after Lukashenko-brokered deal to halt march on Moscow
Prigozhin said he decided to turn Wagner troops when they were just 120 miles from Moscow to avoid 'shedding Russian blood'
https://www.foxnews.com/world/wagner-chief-moving-belarus-lukashenko-brokered-deal-halt-march-moscow
What if you spent Bizzillians on a bit of conflict, lost 10s of thousands of young Comrades, in 12 months, your total efforts have amounted to an expensive stalemate, and the folks at home were getting fed up with your shenanigans and are talking about your replacement.
So, You call your buddy Veygeny who runs a vast and righteously formidable mercenary army. Who, by the way, is the only one making any positive PR effect on your proxy war.
And you say,,
1) get the boys together and make like you are going to unseat me with a coup.
2) spread rumors that the rest of the armed forces support you.
3) after a couple of days, we "negotiate" your troops' surrender
4) you go to Belarus for a vacation then take command of my nuclear stash
5) we will have several kangaroo courts and dispose of several generals that were supporting your "coup."
The results
1) the homies are scared and think that I can't be removed
2) Veygeny gets safe passage to Belarus where he can't be prosecuted for war crimes
3) the UN, EU, and NATO become concerned
4) I am still an a$$ho and still in power
IDK, but I think this coup was staged.
Change my mind. :munching
I would have to say that is a good assessment.
The indicator I am using to see just how true that staged coup attempt theory is whether or not the Ukrainian counter offensive pushes gain traction.
If the coup attempt was real / not just for the TV Cameras then the supply hub in Rostov-on-Don will have been disrupted and had limited abilities to supply the Russian front leading to easier-going for the two Ukrainian LoA’s who up to this point have literally been stuck in a mine-field…..
While the inverse may or not be valid, the battlefield results are a good place to watch.
Golf1echo
06-25-2023, 08:32
I thought this piece was insightful. The greater organization, the world wide enterprises and the many shell companies are as revealing as our politicians multiple family trusts…
Obfuscation comes to mind, as they mentioned “Wack-a-mole”.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EMXnJMCoFYI&pp=ygUMV2FnbmVyIEdyb3Vw
I'm not sure if I'd call it a staged coup attempt. What the democrats, in conjunction with Comey, Brennan, and a few well-vetted RINO politicians pulled was more of a coup attempt than what ACTUALLY went on in Russian last week.
The hook is simple - "we the people" saw what our media overlords allowed us to see - and because we are a Western nation, we see things through a Western lens.
Eugene Vaseline Perogi - or however the fuck you spell his ridiculous commie name - has been a member of Voldemort Putnams inner circle since Moses Malone parted the Jordan River so that the Israelis could escape the Pharaohs on their way to the promised land down in Florida.
I agree that it was part of a plan - everything that the Russians do has some sort of oddly specific goal behind it. The "folks back home" were told this would be an in-and-out rebirth of Mother Russia and it didn't turn out that way.
Now, Babushka is pissed that her babies and grandbabies are being slaughtered for what seems to be a poorly gambled investment in Russian blood. Russian generals are starting to fight Putin's war the same way that George Mcclellan was fighting Lincoln's war - and President Voldemort Putnam knows it...
...but how to root out the senior military commanders that can't be trusted??
If only we could root out the ones that would be willing to step out against the duly elected for life or else government of Russia.
...stage a coup attempt?
...stage a secret coup attempt the way the democrats did against that reality TV star turned politician that we helped steal the last election using our communist sympathizers that owned all the American social networking sites?
Wait - we can TALK about a coup attempt and get the dissidents stirred up, then once we see who is willing to go against our dear leader, we can get back to work while the faithless dissidents are rounded up and sent to Siberia.
We'll all be rich, Comrade Putnam will still be president, and most importantly, we can get back to committing atrocities that the UN and NATO dare not try to stop.
For the record, this is not really a serious analysis of the situation, because we are well beyond such nonsense - besides, the above psychobabble would just be silly.
It's actually just a rough draft of my Matt Damon/Tom Cruise/Keanu Reeves fan fiction Jason Bourne/Mission Impossible/John Wick crossover streaming series.
I'm going to play the part of the News-Stand Owner that passes little bits of critical insider knowledge to the movie's many protagonists just when it seems like all is lost.
I would stand in line for this..
...there's always room in life for this
OH BABY
GratefulCitizen
06-25-2023, 13:40
The results
1) the homies are scared and think that I can't be removed
2) Veygeny gets safe passage to Belarus where he can't be prosecuted for war crimes
3) the UN, EU, and NATO become concerned
4) I am still an a$$ho and still in power
5) Troops and a commander who have demonstrated some degree of competence are strategically redeployed to join pre-positioned troops near Kiev, while the bulk of Ukrainian forces are still in the south.
Badger52
06-26-2023, 03:49
5) Troops and a commander who have demonstrated some degree of competence are strategically redeployed to join pre-positioned troops near Kiev, while the bulk of Ukrainian forces are still in the south."Ol' Bobby Lee stole a march on me." - U.S. Grant
That kind of redeployment?
GratefulCitizen
06-26-2023, 08:40
"Ol' Bobby Lee stole a march on me." - U.S. Grant
That kind of redeployment?
The speculation is based on the proposition that the attempted “coup” was a ruse.
No way of knowing the veracity of the original proposition.
Wagner forces are supposedly being integrated into regular government forces or disbanded.
Meanwhile, nukes are being moved into Belarus.
The movement of nukes might serve as cover for movement of troops.
The speculation is based on the proposition that the attempted “coup” was a ruse. No way of knowing the veracity of the original proposition.
Agree, but the way this coup is magically ending is anything if not wholly suspicious.
Starting a coup and ending in 24 hours bloodless?? Everyone wins??
Wagner forces are supposedly being integrated into regular government forces or disbanded
The superior efforts attributed to the Wagner troops far surpassed those of Russian stock troops.
1) Integration: Ony viable if they are tasked to train the Russians. Sounds good, but don't expect positive results.
2) Disban the best troops on your team: It makes no tactical, financial, or retaliatory sense.
Meanwhile, nukes are being moved into Belarus.
Why adjudicate the coup traitor to sleep with your nukes? Unless you preposition a scapegoat preparatory to their use.
IDK, I'm just an old dog, looking for a bone:munchin
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landside,
No escape from reality
Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see
GratefulCitizen
06-26-2023, 10:56
Agree, but the way this coup is magically ending is anything if not wholly suspicious.
Starting a coup and ending in 24 hours bloodless?? Everyone wins??
I am in agreement that this looks to be a ruse.
I was just acknowledging the fog of war.
This dance is spinning out of control. :boohoo
Is Prigozhin back peddling or what.
Wagner chief breaks his silence: Prigozhin releases 11-minute audio file on since halting mutiny
4,816 views Jun 26, 2023 #Wagner #Russia #Prigozhin
Yevgheny Prigozhin has broken his silence.
The Wagner boss has just released an 11-minute audio recording for the first time since Saturday's failed coup.
He says he didn't want to overthrow Russia's leadership, but instead wanted to hold those responsible for failures in Ukraine accountable.
Officials in Russia are calling for unity two days after a failed coup attempt. Authorities desperate to showcase a sence of normality.
In a video, President Vladimir Putin addressed a youth forum.
And earlier today footage of the Russian defence minister was released, but the video has no sound and it's unclear when it was shot.
FRANCE 24's International Affairs Commentator, Douglas Herbert, tells us more.
#Wagner #Russia #Prigozhin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsOFPV_6n8o
I looked for a full video or text copy of Prigozhin's speech but no results.
GratefulCitizen
06-26-2023, 12:10
Here’s an idea to chew on: What if this is Putin’s off-ramp?
Whether it was planned or it is just taking advantage of an opportunity, this could be an exit.
Much of the economically valuable territory is now controlled.
The lines are suitable for a building a solid defense.
Wagner proved effective at offensive operations.
Will regular forces prove sufficient for defensive operations?
The west has painted itself into a political corner.
“Victory” has been defined as expelling Russia from all of Ukraine.
Maybe Putin sits back and dares the west to come and take it.
This also allows him to cast the west as aggressors when justifying the continuation of the conflict to the Russian people.
Here’s an idea to chew on: What if this is Putin’s off-ramp?
I like..
More probability than my WAG :lifter
Badger52
06-26-2023, 14:14
Here’s an idea to chew on: What if this is Putin’s off-ramp?
There are rumblings, with no receipts, that some non-belligerents are meeting in a Scandinavian country regarding making this happen. Certainly it's possible, or not. We'd know more if we had Victoria Nuland's marching orderse to Little Tony. I think she possibly has too much stock in Raytheon to want to see that happen.
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Eugene Vaseline Perogi: Now THAT is a genius nom de guerre. This is attention to detail on the Warner Bros. level. Which is why, when the coyote plunges to the bottom of the canyon, we see the poof of dust first, before hearing the thump.