View Full Version : What is driving today's conservatives?
Trapper John
07-14-2021, 07:37
I have identified as a conservative since the formative years of my 'political awakening' during the Goldwater era. My thinking was driven largely by the likes of Ayn Rand and William Buckley. As is my habit of periodically reviewing and questioning the basis for my beliefs, I have had a nagging sense that "something else" was driving me. I don't think I am alone in this and perhaps other conservatives are as well.
I recently came across the following: A brilliant Twitter thread by Andrea Widburg perfectly explains what drives today's conservatives in one of my favorite publications - American Thinker
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/07/a_brilliant_twitter_thread_perfectly_explains_what _drives_todays_conservatives.html?fbclid=IwAR2e7wC s5fl-ukJRmD7kG2l1QTWZT0kog9b8Rm3AEgH-Bu_RHKupq8_KMbI
mark46th
07-14-2021, 09:06
Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, Thomas Jefferson to name a few.
"Today's conservatives" is a wildly undefined topic.
Who exactly are we speaking of when we talk about "Today's conservatives" ??
It isn't me. My views are still pretty much the same as they were thedaybeforeyesteryearsago.
Is Milt Romulan an example of "Today's conservatives" ??
What about Wick Rilson and his fellow Biden/Harris supporters over at the Lincoln Project - maybe THEY are what we mean when we talk about "Today's conservatives"
Maybe the self righteous better-than-thou crowd at the Republican Voters Against Trump (RVAT) are considered "Today's conservatives"
Bush - Graham - Kasich - Pataki; all of these "conservative" presidential candidates demanded that the republican field sign a pledge to support the party nominee because they all thought it would be a good bludgeon to use on donald Trump when he DIDNT get the nomination and tried to run as an independant.
These men are ALL supposed to be good examples of "Today's conservatives" - men of honor and integrity and yet, every last one of them refused to "honor" their pledge when donald trump became the Republican presidential nominee.
Men of honor - pfft
Pledge - pfft
Of course, it does help explain why so many of them are SO bad at upholding their oath of office - because pledges mean NOTHING to these empty hollow flesh sacks.
"Today's conservatives" my big ole butt.
"Today's conservatives"
No such thing anymore.
Badger52
07-14-2021, 18:17
I recently came across the following: A brilliant Twitter thread by Andrea Widburg perfectly explains what drives today's conservatives in one of my favorite publications
That thread was a multipart one done by Darryl Cooper, AKA MartyrMade.
It was also read, nearly in its entirety, a few nights ago by none other than Tucker Carlson.
Here's one link (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/07/10/tucker-carlson-reads-darryl-coopers-viral-thread-about-trump-supporters/) that won't give you-know-who another click. Carlson does a pretty good job with it and reinforces the sourcing with screens of the actual text.
Trapper John
07-15-2021, 06:14
Thank you Badger 52! Tucker Carlson put a lot of clarification on this topic. My apologies to Box and the Boxen. This wasn't about Conservatives at all. :confused:
I am not really sure what Conservatism is anymore, let alone who Conservatives are?
Using the list Mark46th put forth as exemplars, I agree with that list by the way, then "Today's conservatives" is an oxymoron! Won't make that mistake again. :p
I am not really sure what Conservatism is anymore, let alone who Conservatives are?
Conservatives and conservatism are pretty much extinct in political circles, what passes as conservative and conservatism are self serving bloviating whores who have sold their souls to the highest bidder. Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Trey Gowdy, Lindsey Graham, Darrell Isa, Asa Hutchins, Kristi Noam all come to mind, but there aren't many (if any) "conservative" politicians in recent history that are Conservative.
How many politicians in general fight for American values and the US Constitution which EVERY Federal employee, Representative, Senator, judge, political appointee, and the President and Vice President of the United States swears to support and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic?
Not too damn many.
Conservatives and Conservatism can be easily found outside every major city in the US and in the 70+ million US citizens that General Milley (and the DC Beltway) considers Nazi's and a former President he considers Adolf Hitler-esque.
BTW....
In a new book Gen. Milley, in regards to a coup, is credited with stating:
"You can't do this without the military. You can't do this without the CIA and the FBI. We're the guys with the guns."
Esper, Milley, Vindman, Comey, Clapper, Brennan
Things make you go hmmmmmm...
I have far more in common with Victorian era Classic Liberalism than any of the Millennial "conservative" politicians that are defrauding US citizens out of their hard earned "tax" money.
...a political philosophy and ideology that places emphasis on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government, civil liberties under the rule of law, economic freedom, private property, and a robust participation in laissez-faire style capitalism.
I dont know WHAT in the fuck these modern day hucksters are selling but I'm not buying any of it.
Frustration with the GOPe "leadership".
They put the capital "U" in Uniparty.
I might be too open to conspiracies, maybe. If an organization wanted to fundamentally change its rival organization and was patient enough to put in the work for decades wouldn't it look something like what the Republican party has been turned into? A neutered shell of what it was in the 1980's?
Everyone on this forum is either a practitioner of subversion, wants to be a practitioner, or, at a minimum, has a basic understanding of subversion. is it outside the realm of possibilities that we have been played, fell for the candidate that said all the right things while running for office only to do a 180 once in power? Propelled forward with financial assistance unknown to the masses?
Conservatism is not dead, it may even be resurging. The problem is, I believe, evicting the posers at the local level and voting for candidates willing to scrub the government of self propelled herpes viruses like Milley, Comey, and their ilk.
Mostly I just wanted to say Milley sucks balls but rambled a bit. Apologies
is it outside the realm of possibilities that we have been played, fell for the candidate that said all the right things while running for office only to do a 180 once in power? Propelled forward with financial assistance unknown to the masses?
Sometimes that is the case. Or as is often the case you are merely given the choice of the lesser of two evils, a damned if you do and a damned if I don't proposition.
You can get a guy like Kris Kobach who blows his own campaign and you end up with shrill Laura Kelly, or he just doesn't show for the game and you get Roger Marshall. Now Kobach wants his former AG job back after his two dismal showings and Kansas better pray they don't end up with a Soros controlled hack for AG.
Badger52
07-16-2021, 04:04
I might be too open to conspiracies, maybe. If an organization wanted to fundamentally change its rival organization and was patient enough to put in the work for decades wouldn't it look something like what the Republican party has been turned into? A neutered shell of what it was in the 1980's?
Everyone on this forum is either a practitioner of subversion, wants to be a practitioner, or, at a minimum, has a basic understanding of subversion. is it outside the realm of possibilities that we have been played, fell for the candidate that said all the right things while running for office only to do a 180 once in power? Propelled forward with financial assistance unknown to the masses?
Conservatism is not dead, it may even be resurging. The problem is, I believe, evicting the posers at the local level and voting for candidates willing to scrub the government of self propelled herpes viruses like Milley, Comey, and their ilk.
Mostly I just wanted to say Milley sucks balls but rambled a bit. Apologies
Don't find that rambling at all; it says what needs saying. Destruction began with the desire to be seen as an accomodating person, striding the middle of the road, willing to compromise one's core values. [IMO one of the most destructive accelerants ever to come along was the social media see-how-virtuous-I-am 'Like' button.] This is appropriate, perhaps, when conducting the subversion. Not so much when your country is the one being diverted onto a 1-way path of destruction.
"So thank you for that opportunity to circle back and remind everyone that Milley sucks balls." - #OrangeGirlBad®
Trapper John
07-16-2021, 05:56
Originally posted by Hacksaw: Mostly I just wanted to say Milley sucks balls but rambled a bit. Apologies :lifter Thank you Brother!
Your post sparks optimism in me. You are exactly correct in saying that the problem is eviction of the posers at the local level. This may be precisely what is happening in Louden and Fairfax counties Virginia w/r/t CRT???
Not to divert the topic, but I have a question.
Did Milley actually 'earn' a Special Forces Tab as in did he actually make it through the Q-Course and such or did he get it merely because of an assignment?
Ret10Echo
07-16-2021, 07:31
I generally have issue with being placed in any particular bucket in our tribal society. Too easy for people to apply a preconceived laundry list of positions that I allegedly hold because of some label.
Conservative is yet another term that has been defined in the politically-twisted dictionary.
his bio states 5th SFG and he's wearing a dive badge. It is possible since that BS was allowed but given he was a late 70's guy and not a Vietnam era guy I tend to doubt it.
However, I did forget to ask if anyone on here served with this cockgobbler.
maybe he went when he was enlisted then went to OCS
His bio shows zero assignments leading SF soldiers unless my reading comprehension is off again. The Rangers have gone to great lengths to explain to people that there is a difference between wearing a tab and living the lifestyle - maybe that applies here as well.
He's SF qualified - no argument about it but maybe that's just the end of it - maybe it isn't any more complicated than that - he went to a school a long time ago and then got on with his life...
maybe he went when he was enlisted then went to OCS
His bio shows zero assignments leading SF soldiers unless my reading comprehension is off again.
Rangers have gone to great lengths explain that there is a difference between a tab and the lifestyle...
He's SF qualified - no argument about it but maybe that just the end of it - maybe it isn't any more complicated than that - he went to a school a long time ago and then got on with his life...
He was commissioned in 1980. Armor officer.
1st assignment was 82ND ABN armor BN
5th SFG Ft Bragg - never elaborated on team or unit.
Back to regular army and attended the Infantry Officer Advanced course and then off to regular army assignments.
Never again had a SF assignment. Looks like he was an armor 1st LT in SF and became infantry as he went back to regular army. That tracks with his timeline.
He is SF qualified but never branched SF. He probably thought he could rise higher in the RA not SF. Ticket punch. Probably he team was Scuba so he went to dive school and short time on a team and had to do the advance course as it was his time.
Just my 2 cents from checking his Bio’s on multiple sites. I still think he is a political military hack but that is just me.
I'm just glad that we are blessed with such wise and righteous leaders that are so morally superior to us lesser beings that they are able to so completely sum up the essence of millions of people with little more than a few biased statements that revolve around poor personal feelings.
Lesser people would simply be referred to as intolerant.
TGFGM
Miley is a 'climber' and that is that...and good at it too...iotw, he'd say and do whatever it took for that next promo.
I've known and worked for some very righteous General officers...he ain't one.
That original article describes the feelings many conservatives have after the onslaught of continual bullshit the Trump admin had to deal with fucking daily.
Political PTSD would sum it up.....and a smoldering anger at the continual media frenzy of fake news and total bullshit spread as 'news'.
This includes the last election with all of the 'special' covid voting events that any moron could have abused.
Now we have progressives selling ethnic hate as the vehicle to power....instead of 'class warfare' as the Marxists did.
Same vehicle, different paint job.
Pretty dang sure he wasn't on a dive team in 3/5th.
Know for sure he wasn't on A/3/5th's dive team.
Non Infantry XO's were floating around at the time. Phelan was an MP and had just came from an MP assignment when he was our XO.
That would be something if he turned out to be a poser.
Old Dog New Trick
07-19-2021, 08:34
Wait…so there’s no record of him actually going to the Q-Course and his time (possibly) in Group predates the awarding of the “Tab” and yet here he is with a Tab and SCUBA Bubble?
A lot of weird conservative sh!t happened in the 1980s…a movie star got elected President who could kiss women on the face without asking and a fully clothed teenage boy allegedly held down a fully clothed teenage girl at party…like that didn’t happen EVER!
Milley is a rat, now the question should be is he a lying rat with undeserving medals and awards?
I might be too open to conspiracies, maybe. If an organization wanted to fundamentally change its rival organization and was patient enough to put in the work for decades wouldn't it look something like what the Republican party has been turned into?
The Chairman of the RNC, Ronna McDaniel, is a Romney. Mike Lee, Senator from Utah, is a member of the Udall Political Family. Schwarzenegger married into the Kennedy clan and rolled over after the first pushback from the Dims in CA. How many other 'families" have infiltrated the Republican Party.
Exactly right. These people have been sliding into key positions for decades. Honestly, if the gentlemen on this forum wanted to take over or undermine an organization without using arms, this is how we would do it.
Can someone look into stolen valor stuff on active duty soldiers like it's done with civilians? How would someone go about calling Milley on his service ribbons, badges and tabs? I know COL Hackworth did it to some Navy cunt back in the late 80's.
Maybe he went to dive school with Joe Teti. Anyway someone at the school house can look :)
tom kelly
07-22-2021, 13:28
The old Regan phrase "TRUST BUT VERIFY", anybody on a TEAM with the "GENERAL"... I remember a time in 1964 That Col. George C Morton USASWS wrote to General Yarborough about his time as C O of The U S Army Special Forces, Vietnam in the summer of 1963 a total of 104 Purple Hearts were awarded and the lions share went to SF, BUT, the other awards and decorations for valor were not commensurate. In other words The REMF's and clerk typist were getting there tickets punched...
bblhead672
07-22-2021, 13:40
Today’s conservatives have conserved….nothing. I have quit describing myself as conservative because I don’t want to be associated with Conservative, Inc. and it’s ilk.
Just leave me alone, stay out of my business and don’t try to jam your values down my throat….we’ll get along fine.
Unfortunately half the country are Demoncrats (Socialists) who get into everybody’s business and the other half are mostly Repukicans (Socialist Lites) who want to get into everybody’s business, leaving a small minority of people who think like most of the people on this forum.
The SOF News website posted this biography (https://sof.news/defense/general-milley/) claiming Milley commanded a dive ODA and was an SOT OIC in the couple years between his 82nd time and the Infantry Officer Advanced Course. He must have been pretty busy guy to finish the Q Course, finish CDQC, command an ODA, and be an SOT OIC all in that short period.
He also got his Masters Degree in international relations from the same school where the Cloward-Piven strategy was born.
... not that there's anything wrong with that
The SOF News website posted this biography (https://sof.news/defense/general-milley/) claiming Milley commanded a dive ODA and was an SOT OIC in the couple years between his 82nd time and the Infantry Officer Advanced Course. He must have been pretty busy guy to finish the Q Course, finish CDQC, command an ODA, and be an SOT OIC all in that short period.
I don’t remember his a s being the OIC at the lake. 1st LT I don’t think so. Would have to ask Bill Gregory or some of the others from that timeline. I feel like there is some embellished bio info going on. Just my 2 cents.
Badger52
07-27-2021, 15:53
I feel like there is some embellished bio info going on. Just my 2 cents.That's kind of what I thought of the SECDEF's pretty thin SS citation for "conducting operations" as a 1-star Ass't Div CG. I might be just crusty and this is just another area with a "new normal."
bblhead672
07-27-2021, 16:03
Q: What is driving today's conservatives?
A: An overwhelming desire to submit their liberty to the Socialist Democrats.
Can a officer of Milley's status be authorized to wear badges/awards regardless of whether he actually served in a particular unit or passed a course?
That's kind of what I thought of the SECDEF's pretty thin SS citation for "conducting operations" as a 1-star Ass't Div CG.
From https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/secretary-defense-lloyd-j-austin-iii-dan-rice/
“[Brigadier General Austin] continually placed himself and the division tactical operations center at the key point of the battle to provide command and control to the division on a fast-paced and violent battlefield. [His] gallantry in combat and relentless determination to defeat the enemy reflect great credit upon himself, the 3rd Infantry Division, and the United States Army.”
I wonder if the rest of the folks in the TOC received Silver Stars, too.
Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, Thomas Jefferson to name a few.
Unfortunately there's nothing conservative about so-called free market capitalism, as it's what's been used to whore out our nation to foreign interests while actually conserving zero traditions or customs handed to us from our ancestors. Milton Friedman enthusiastically endorsed Leo Melamed's establishment of speculative finance in Chicago because free market capitalism can find no fault with inventing profit from thin air, and ever since then we've watched speculative finance in an unbacked economy working at the behest of a private sector money printing factory called the Federal Reserve drive domestic and foreign policy, and not in a good way, since the 1970s (check out David Stockman's The Great Deformation for a great takedown of our entire post-WW2 system; and stay tuned for Mel Gibson's The Rothchilds if you want to really know who's behind it). Sowell is strikingly correct in many of his economic, social, and even many racial observations, but he mostly identifies problems and insane left-wing hypocrisies without outright naming the hard solutions that aren't uncontroversial fiscally conservative positions, i.e. taxes are bad. In that sense he is much like Charles Murray, who can write 500 pages on the merits of European achievement, but would never dare defend inherently European values. Jefferson was quite prescriptive but no conservative today really wants to adopt actual Jeffersonian ideals lest they be branded a white supremacist. Instead, they seem entirely content with using Jefferson as some sort of weird justification for milquetoast civic nationalism and Constitutional pearl clutching, forgetting that Jefferson was in France in 1789 and basically wrote Madison several letters saying "wtf are y'all doing bro." A decade later Jefferson created an entire political party whose sole purpose was to destroy the emergence of a ruling elite that was mostly bankers who were plundering agrarian workers and pushing for perpetual military adventurism, and after failing he wrote in 1820 "I regret that I am now to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiness of their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be that I live not to weep over it."
Basically mainstream conservatism today is just liberalism from 10 years ago. In 2025 conservatives will be making impassioned defenses of tranny rights so long as they don't [insert thing that conservatives will be okay with in 2035]. Just look at the present allowable conservative positions on Christianity, gay rights, feminism, and even BLM. This is why a third position will either emerge to save our nation just in time or from its ashes after it's too late.
Badger52
07-28-2021, 04:31
From https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/secretary-defense-lloyd-j-austin-iii-dan-rice/
“[Brigadier General Austin] continually placed himself and the division tactical operations center at the key point of the battle to provide command and control to the division on a fast-paced and violent battlefield. [His] gallantry in combat and relentless determination to defeat the enemy reflect great credit upon himself, the 3rd Infantry Division, and the United States Army.”
I wonder if the rest of the folks in the TOC received Silver Stars, too.I've seen photographic evidence that when jumping to a new location, if you don't secure that carafe, the coffee pot will bite you when you least expect it.
Maybe we should just do like they did with the BSM - add a V device - all the rest would be for "Service"
Then the upper crusts could pass out those Silver Stars that they so desperately need to make their bones.
Maybe we should just do like they did with the BSM - add a V device - all the rest would be for "Service"
Then the upper crusts could pass out those Silver Stars that they so desperately need to make their bones.
As I recall you do not embrace the use of the pink font. No more watering down of awards please!
Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, Thomas Jefferson to name a few.
Also John Locke and CS Lewis to the list
WarriorDiplomat
08-21-2021, 10:01
Unfortunately there's nothing conservative about so-called free market capitalism, as it's what's been used to whore out our nation to foreign interests while actually conserving zero traditions or customs handed to us from our ancestors. Milton Friedman enthusiastically endorsed Leo Melamed's establishment of speculative finance in Chicago because free market capitalism can find no fault with inventing profit from thin air, and ever since then we've watched speculative finance in an unbacked economy working at the behest of a private sector money printing factory called the Federal Reserve drive domestic and foreign policy, and not in a good way, since the 1970s (check out David Stockman's The Great Deformation for a great takedown of our entire post-WW2 system; and stay tuned for Mel Gibson's The Rothchilds if you want to really know who's behind it). Sowell is strikingly correct in many of his economic, social, and even many racial observations, but he mostly identifies problems and insane left-wing hypocrisies without outright naming the hard solutions that aren't uncontroversial fiscally conservative positions, i.e. taxes are bad. In that sense he is much like Charles Murray, who can write 500 pages on the merits of European achievement, but would never dare defend inherently European values. Jefferson was quite prescriptive but no conservative today really wants to adopt actual Jeffersonian ideals lest they be branded a white supremacist. Instead, they seem entirely content with using Jefferson as some sort of weird justification for milquetoast civic nationalism and Constitutional pearl clutching, forgetting that Jefferson was in France in 1789 and basically wrote Madison several letters saying "wtf are y'all doing bro." A decade later Jefferson created an entire political party whose sole purpose was to destroy the emergence of a ruling elite that was mostly bankers who were plundering agrarian workers and pushing for perpetual military adventurism, and after failing he wrote in 1820 "I regret that I am now to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiness of their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be that I live not to weep over it."
Basically mainstream conservatism today is just liberalism from 10 years ago. In 2025 conservatives will be making impassioned defenses of tranny rights so long as they don't [insert thing that conservatives will be okay with in 2035]. Just look at the present allowable conservative positions on Christianity, gay rights, feminism, and even BLM. This is why a third position will either emerge to save our nation just in time or from its ashes after it's too late.
Agreed, government is a giant slow moving Tsunami that starts center goes right then slowly transitions left as it gains momentum. The more people the faster it moves
The SOF News website posted this biography (https://sof.news/defense/general-milley/) claiming Milley commanded a dive ODA and was an SOT OIC in the couple years between his 82nd time and the Infantry Officer Advanced Course. He must have been pretty busy guy to finish the Q Course, finish CDQC, command an ODA, and be an SOT OIC all in that short period.
Biography? Not clear to me! How about someone find a copy of ORB from that time frame. JMHO
:munchin
Edit: Question is who recommended /and promoted him to 4 star rank?