The “Letter” signed by 126 former Flag and GOs.

[Old Dog New Trick]

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/fb7c7bd8-097d-4e2f-8f12-3442d151b57d/downloads/2021%20Open%20Letter%20from%20Retired%20Generals%2 0and%20Adm.pdf?ver=1620643005025

While I whole heartedly agree with many points being made and the political discord published here in this letter, I’m not sure the delivery method was best.

I am reminded of a different letter some group of people wrote to our government to protect the Second Amendment and how it fell flat.

What are your thoughts and how do the most respected professionals in our (formerly) apolitical military engage in making change before it’s too late?

Do we have to wait until a bigger majority of the population feel the affects personally before they will act to reverse the direction of the party in power to “fundamentally” change America from a Constitutional Republic to a Marxist/Socialist (communist) country?

Your comments welcome (be advised it’s an open forum)

[Trapper John]

Can't open the link??

[Old Dog New Trick]

Interesting, try this to Business Insider:

https://apple.news/AymLEwyvRRbWV8SPBUj1Mkw

Then clink on the embedded link “the letter” in second paragraph.

[tom kelly]

I read the letter and agree with the position the Admirals and Generals have stated. The effect of the letter will be minimal. They are retired and have no power of command and control.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I agree Tom. I think their delivery would be better through a full page print add on page 3 of as many major newspapers as they can afford.

Second benefit of that process is to determine the levels of 1st Amendment resistance they would face if any…from left leaning papers?

[sg1987]

A copy of the letter...

[Roguish Lawyer]

Yeah, I'm sure this will get tons of press coverage and can be freely shared on social media.

[Badger52]

For continuity of thread, their actual website that hosts the letter:

https://flagofficers4america.com/

Statement & link for downloadable PDF letter (https://flagofficers4america.com/opening-statement#393e50a9-590e-4cf3-a356-84bf2eec4e5b).

[glebo]

Well, why is it now that they are retired they become all "ballsy"...GEN Pattons...they're not...:(

However as stated in a previous post...they're retired. You may as well put my name on it...it will have the same effect...nothing...

[Flagg]

It seems to be contagious.

Two letters published recently in France are a rough mirror of circumstances between Revolutionary War allies USA and France.

https://www.voanews.com/europe/second-open-letter-french-soldiers-warns-civil-insurrection

[Trapper John]

Whereas I agree with the points in the letter, I question the wisdom of producing and publishing it. IMHO, the second order effect of this letter is to politicize yet another institution, the US Military. We have already politicized our court system, the electoral process, public health, primary, secondary, and higher education, law enforcement, MSM, social media, athletics, and much, much more. In fact every aspect of our lives has been hyper-politicized! All of this is to the detriment of our constitutional republic. I would not sign and would argue against producing it in an attempt to protect the independence of the military establishment. YMMV

[JimP]

Trapper, the military is already politicized - especially under the dim-witted racist Lloyd Austin. Every MACOM now has an Office of Diversity and Inclusion. They are actively seeking out MAGA, white, nationalists, conservatives, and anyone who doesn't kiss the ring of the current orthodoxy that we are a racist Nation and must purge the stain of whiteness from our ranks.

[Badger52]

especially under the dim-witted racist Lloyd Austin.I've seen more words on how to redeem box tops for a decoder ring than are in his SS cite while an Ass't Div CG.

Paraphrasing... I didn't leave the Army, the Army left me.
Maybe it's a just a grumpy Thursday-thing.
:mad:

[Stobey]

Trapper, the military is already politicized - especially under the dim-witted racist Lloyd Austin. Every MACOM now has an Office of Diversity and Inclusion. They are actively seeking out MAGA, white, nationalists, conservatives, and anyone who doesn't kiss the ring of the current orthodoxy that we are a racist Nation and must purge the stain of whiteness from our ranks.


It has now gotten even worse:


Commanding General at Fort Campbell Issues New Guidelines – Unvaccinated Soldiers Cannot Take Pass or Leave Base – Considered Non-Deployable
By Jim Hoft
Published May 13, 2021 at 7:15am

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/commanding-general-fort-campbell-issues-new-guidelines-unvaccinated-soldiers-cannot-take-pass-leave-base-considered-non-deployable/


So if you are active military, particularly as non-commissioned personnel, it would seem that if you refuse to take the experimental "vaccine", you can't go anywhere, see loved ones or (not so bad) be deployed. That's the way it seems at this time. I hope there is a way that this can be fought.

[Ret10Echo]

All I have to say is...

Tick-borne Encephalitis

[tonyz]

Some additional perspective on the message being sent.

“What are we to make of these developments? For one, the battle looming before us is real. For too long, the powers that be have pretended that the expanding encroachments upon our liberties by an ever more intrusive State were the delusions of "conspiracy theorists" and not the realistic concerns of serious individuals. Those same powers scoffed at the idea that flooding the nation with tens of millions of illegal aliens was undermining American cohesion and national security. And they mocked Americans who have fought to protect and preserve American culture in the face of unrelenting public relations campaigns pushing "diversity" and "multiculturalism" as strengths. Now military professionals in both France and the United States are admitting that by failing to defend the achievements and hard-won lessons of Western civilization, two of the world's great nation-states are at risk of collapse. “


Are Retired French and American Military Generals Standing Up against Tyranny?
By J.B. Shurk
May 13, 2021
American Thinker

Three weeks ago, over a thousand active and retired members of the French military (including twenty retired generals) signed their names to a letter warning President Macron that "multiculturalism," "racial war," and "fanatic partisans" are destroying French society and leading the country to "civil war." The blunt message caused a tizzy — not just in France, but across Europe. The French government and the French media immediately condemned the unsolicited warning (with Macron and the minister in charge of the armed forces, Florence Parly, promising punishment for those involved), but the French people did not. Subsequent polling showed that 58% "support the words of the soldiers," 73% believe France is disintegrating, 84% feel that violence is increasing, and 49% think the military should "restore order." In their letter, servicemembers warned, "The hour is grave, France is in peril," and to the great consternation of Macron and his government, the French people overwhelmingly agreed.

Now we have a letter in the United States from 124 retired generals and admirals warning Americans in a strikingly similar tone: "Our nation is in deep peril. We are in a fight for our survival as a Constitutional Republic like no other time since our founding in 1776. The conflict is between supporters of Socialism and Marxism vs. supporters of Constitutional freedom and liberty."

The flag officers take aim at the Democrats' "tyrannical government," their "full-blown assault on our Constitutional rights in a dictatorial manner," and their "population control actions," including "censorship of written and verbal expression." After enumerating what can only be called "a long train of abuses," including the government's intentional creation of a crisis at the southern border and intentional destruction of America's newly won energy independence, the administration's decision to give aid and comfort to Iran's regime of terror, and the Democrats' use of the military as "pawns" to intimidate conservatives while coddling Antifa and Black Lives Matter insurrectionists, the retired U.S. generals and admirals warn Americans as bluntly as the French generals warned France: "The survival of our Nation and its cherished freedoms, liberty, and historic values are at stake."

While the American letter ends with an exhortation for citizens to get involved in local, state, and national politics in order to "Save America" and "hold those currently in office accountable," it is clearly asking Americans to do more than simply vote responsibly. Only four words are underlined in the whole text: "all," as in "all Americans," is underlined once, and "act" is underlined three separate times. This is not a run-of-the-mill letter reminding Americans about the importance of elections; this is a modern version of Thomas Paine's Common Sense urging Americans to action.

So within a three-week period, esteemed former high-ranking members of the French and U.S. militaries have finally decided to sound the alarm that the futures of both countries now hang in the balance. Maybe the spirits of Lafayette and Washington have something yet to say before the West drinks the hemlock of the "Great Reset" and disappears into darkness for good. What an interesting turn of events!

What are we to make of these developments? For one, the battle looming before us is real. For too long, the powers that be have pretended that the expanding encroachments upon our liberties by an ever more intrusive State were the delusions of "conspiracy theorists" and not the realistic concerns of serious individuals. Those same powers scoffed at the idea that flooding the nation with tens of millions of illegal aliens was undermining American cohesion and national security. And they mocked Americans who have fought to protect and preserve American culture in the face of unrelenting public relations campaigns pushing "diversity" and "multiculturalism" as strengths. Now military professionals in both France and the United States are admitting that by failing to defend the achievements and hard-won lessons of Western civilization, two of the world's great nation-states are at risk of collapse.

Secondly, the coordinated timing of these two letters should be seen as an acknowledgment that what battles lie ahead will not resemble insular civil conflicts that remain quarantined within the borders of the U.S. or France. Rather, they will be transnational wars waged between freedom-minded peoples seeking limited constitutional government and Marxist-socialists demanding total State control. We are walking into Samuel P. Huntington's nightmarish Clash of Civilizations, where cultural upheaval renders national boundaries inconsequential.

For the French generals, decades of steady Muslim immigration with little integration into French society have produced a nation within a nation at war with itself, a situation that cannot hold.

In the United States, a country that attracts immigrants from all over the world, the abandonment of its founding principles has destroyed the bonds that have given disparate generations of new Americans a common American identity. From whatever lineages an American may trace his past, America's success has depended upon shared futures, where liberty is cherished and individual rights are preserved. By sacrificing America's historic collective identity, unity has been destroyed and replaced by the sheer exercise of power by one faction against another. Without a common political culture or a common political language, America is now many nations within one nation, all at war with each other. The United States is in the midst of civilizational conflict, not because it is made up of peoples who have come from all over the world but because it has forfeited the rule of law and individual conscience for monstrous forms of extra-constitutional government, rule by administrative fiat, and a new state religion of political correctness enforced by "woke" priests.

Finally, these two complementary French and American letters should be seen as implicit promises to the citizens of both nations that they are not alone. Too many people have suffered in silence as their countries have been "fundamentally transformed" against their will. When they do speak up and exercise their rights to assemble and petition their governments for redress of grievances, it is they who come under attack. Four months after protesting for "free and fair" elections in the United States, too many Americans are being held prisoner with shockingly little due process or constitutional protection of any kind. Too many Americans are right now being surveilled and targeted by the U.S. government, not because they have committed or plan on committing a crime, but because their political beliefs conflict with those in power. Time and again, Americans in disbelief at the rapid deterioration of their nation's constitutional protections have rhetorically asked, "Is anyone going to step forward, assume a position of leadership, and fight back?"

Consider these two letters the first official answers to that question. The American letter ends in what can only be seen as a mission directive: "The 'will of the people' must be heard and followed."


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/05/are_retired_french_and_american_military_generals_ standing_up_against_tyranny.html

[Trapper John]

All I have to say is...

Tick-borne Encephalitis

:lifter

[Trapper John]

It has now gotten even worse:


Commanding General at Fort Campbell Issues New Guidelines – Unvaccinated Soldiers Cannot Take Pass or Leave Base – Considered Non-Deployable
By Jim Hoft
Published May 13, 2021 at 7:15am

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/05/commanding-general-fort-campbell-issues-new-guidelines-unvaccinated-soldiers-cannot-take-pass-leave-base-considered-non-deployable/


So if you are active military, particularly as non-commissioned personnel, it would seem that if you refuse to take the experimental "vaccine", you can't go anywhere, see loved ones or (not so bad) be deployed. That's the way it seems at this time. I hope there is a way that this can be fought.

So why do you say the vaccines are "experimental"? Why shouldn't commanders enforce vaccination of the personnel under their commands? I would advocate for every recruit, all AD personnel, ans CIV employee be vaccinated unless medically contra-indicated!

[Box]

Nondeployable
Pfft
...wars over - besides where ya gonna deploy them

Out of curiosity, when does telling soldiers that have spent most of the last 20 years away from their family that "non-deployable" will be their punishment sound like a relevant threat - and when have threats like that ever sounded like sound leadership tactics - it sounds more like a bully than a leader.
It sounds more like proof positive that the politicization of military leadership is now SOP.

I'm guessing that the Demanding General at Fort Campbell isn't going to be a signatory to "the letter" any time soon.
Just sayin'

[tom kelly]

Looking for more STARS ! ....Me and Bobby MCGEE.... Didn't Janis Joplin sing that song ?

[Badger52]

Looking for more STARS ! ....Me and Bobby MCGEE.... Didn't Janis Joplin sing that song ?Indeed, (former ring-knocker Captain) Kris Kristofferson wrote that & gave it to her. Unlike her, he's still kickin'..
:cool:

[Old Dog New Trick]

So why do you say the vaccines are "experimental"? Why shouldn't commanders enforce vaccination of the personnel under their commands? I would advocate for every recruit, all AD personnel, ans CIV employee be vaccinated unless medically contra-indicated!

You know TJ, I would too, but I wouldn’t use threats and restrictions as a hammer to get it done. Commander’s or “leaders” have many options available to them to see that their troops are ready and prepared to go into combat or meet other mission requirements. I don’t see how the active duty or even NG/Reserve forces are of an age where this virus should even be a consideration or consequence of action.

As an example, we require deploying troops to get inoculations for all sorts of things that may be prevalent in the AOR and/or take medications as prophylaxis again depending on the location or season. Some of those have caused significant problems long term to the deployed troops and tax payers are always spending substantial amounts of money because of sometimes ‘feel good medicine’ that may have been more detrimental than treatment for those who actually get sick from - shall I say it - tick-born encephalitis.

We saw a Navy Commander get relieved of command because he used poor judgment (not just once but twice) and infected his Aircraft Carrier but with what we know now his decision to park that strategic asset and disembark his crew was the real failure of leadership. To use a line from the movie “Independence Day” the wacky scientist was asked how they plan to defeat the alien invasion once Will Smith gets inside the mothership: “we’re going to give it a virus, like a cold, and it’s going to spread from there.”

I think the Chinese have learned much from our own failures to understand what this is and what it isn’t. For the commander of Fort Campbell, I’d say he just signaled a willingness to shutter an entire combat Division over a “cold.”

We don’t know the long term impact of these vaccines yet, but we do know how to treat the disease now and we always did…the old fashioned way with tried and trusted medicine that’s been around awhile and costs very little.

[PSM]

Indeed, (former ring-knocker Captain) Kris Kristofferson wrote that & gave it to her. Unlike her, he's still kickin'..
:cool:

He didn't go to The Point, he went to OCS and became a helicopter pilot. He was assigned to teach at West Point, but decided not to.

[Badger52]

He didn't go to The Point, he went to OCS and became a helicopter pilot. He was assigned to teach at West Point, but decided not to.Thanks Pat for the clarification.

[JimP]

you will see the CG of Campbell "change" his mind...quickly. He cannot punish Soldiers for NOT having the vaccine. The vaccine was authorized under an emergency use exception/authority (EUA). As such, you can't force the military to use it unless SECDEF goes to the President and gets authorization. Trump wouldn't do it and this bumbling, dementia-addled, bowl of oatmeal won't do it.

There have already been a bunch of accounts of Task Force commanders doing such things and they are very quickly running into DA or DoD IG investigations which - surprise...surprise... - also are finding other elements of toxicity within their leadership styles.

I expect first thing Monday morning the good General will have "rethought" his position.

[Last hard class]

Curious. Will that position hold when one of the vaccines gains full FDA approval?



LHC

[Trapper John]

From ODNT
You know TJ, I would too, but I wouldn’t use threats and restrictions as a hammer to get it done. Commander’s or “leaders” have many options available to them to see that their troops are ready and prepared to go into combat or meet other mission requirements. I don’t see how the active duty or even NG/Reserve forces are of an age where this virus should even be a consideration or consequence of action.

Agree! McGee's methods and means were way outside good leadership parameters! I still contend that vaccination of all personnel under my command would be warranted. I probably would direct that HCQ be made available at all dispensaries and in cold packs too. After checking with you and JimP first of course! Otherwise business as usual. :p

[Old Dog New Trick]

:D

[Box]

I'll be far more surprised if his actions don't set a precedent. DoD is speculating that the entire force will be vaccinated by early summer (https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2552011/entire-force-may-be-vaccinated-for-covid-19-by-early-summer/)- you ain't going to get there without tearing up a few DA-31s and hinting that your next eval may have some wording that suggests that you don't support command programs.

Be a patriot - wear a mask
wear two
and get a shot
wear two masks get a shot be a patriot and then signal your patriotism by continuing to wear the mask after you get a shot

liberals virtue signal and virtue signaling is silly - we want to PATRIOT signal because patriot signaling is patriotic


...what does the letter say about THAT

[Old Dog New Trick]

Be a patriot -

...what does the letter say about THAT

Not this letter but, that word is treasonous nowadays…you’re likely to be investigated by the command and referred to the DHS/FBI for further review.

Anti-vaxxers and gasoline-hoarders will become the new watchwords for white supremacist propaganda.





P.S. you’ve been passed over for promotion because your shot records indicate non-compliance with DOD relegations and the service has begun separation procedures immediately…discharge papers to indicate less than honorable discharge! (No guns for you!)

[Box]

Not this letter but, that word is treasonous nowadays…

au contraire mon frère...
“It’s a patriotic responsibility, for God’s sake,” Biden said of wearing a face covering.

President Biden said "patriotic" and "God" in the same sentence - not only does wearing a mask make you a patriot - it is the only way you can get into democrat heaven.

ODNT - I won't lie to you - follow me if you want to learn woke. I have a 3rd-degree green belt in woke and I want to share it with others.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I believe you, but not a man (is that the right pronoun) who uses God to promote bad policy decisions but can’t invoke God on National Prayer Day…very hypocritical of him (again a wrong pronoun, I’m so anti-woke.)

BTW - happy Armed Forces Day! (Too serve is citizenship!)