OK, this should be entertaining

[Roguish Lawyer]

Many of you have been trying to talk me into leaving California for many years, and it's looking like you will get your wish. Maybe not immediately, but soon enough. The wife just decided we need to go ASAP! So, now we have to decide where.

Kindly recommend alternative places to live and explain both the advantages and disadvantages. This is a serious question, but y'all have fun! I will tell you that the leading (but not only) candidates right now are Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Florida.

:munchin

[PSM]

I will just warn you not to be wooed by the "no income tax" siren. Income eventually goes away or is greatly reduced, property taxes NEVER go away and go up. Remember the purpose behind Prop. 13, retirees could not keep up with rising property taxes. My sister and BiL loved to brag about "no income tax" in Texas, but now that they are retired, with little income, their property tax is still climbing.

Just my dos centavos.

[SF_BHT]

Stay away from NM. Just a low populated little brother to CA.

[JJ_BPK]

I lived 50yrs in South Florida

I love the weather but hate the politics of the Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade counties.

The outdoor life is the best bar-none but tends to be youth concentric. After I reached 60 the knees did not cheer when I left the dock. Neither a day poling the flats nor trowling 30 miles off-shore. BUTT, hunting from tree stands? OK :lifter

Hurricanes are kinda personal, some people hate them, others just grin, get their shi$$ together and have a party. Additionally, flood & windstorm insurance can be a major part of a budget. The physical key is understanding FEMA's flood zones. If you live in an evac area, you need a relly point out of state.

If I were to return, I would look at something within 50 miles of Disney, along the I4, Tampa to Orlando corridor.

Down side: Hurricanes, Pythons & Gators, and too many Democrats..

My $00.00002

[Silver Eagle]

Oklahoma

[mojaveman]

I'm right behind you RL.

I'm in the Inland Empire but can't wait to get the hell out of the People's Republik of Kalifornia. I'm finding that location though is going to be a tough decision.

A dry climate with warm weather leaves me with basically west Texas, New Mexico or Arizona. I've also read a few articles about serious water shortages in this region in the coming decades because of climate change and domestic migration.

Still have a few years to think about it.

[NurseTim]

NC is infested with surly new yarkers and jerseyites, or is that jerseymites?

It is pretty solidly blue. If you do not have a concealed carry permit, you have to beg the sheriff, ok ask, for permission to purchase a handgun or rifle.
No private sales of firearms, all must be conducted through FFL. I had popped smoke before that lil beauty came to pass. Freedoms are shrinking fast in NC.
But the eastern half of NC has the best BBQ. It is a beautiful state.
They say the state flower is the dogwood, they lie, it is in fact the mold spore.

[NurseTim]

I lived 50yrs in South Florida

I love the weather but hate the politics of the Palm Beach, Broward, and Dade counties.

The outdoor life is the best bar-none but tends to be youth concentric. After I reached 60 the knees did not cheer when I left the dock. Neither a day poling the flats nor trowling 30 miles off-shore. BUTT, hunting from tree stands? OK :lifter

Hurricanes are kinda personal, some people hate them, others just grin, get their shi$$ together and have a party. Additionally, flood & windstorm insurance can be a major part of a budget. The physical key is understanding FEMA's flood zones. If you live in an evac area, you need a relly point out of state.

If I were to return, I would look at something within 50 miles of Disney, along the I4, Tampa to Orlando corridor.

Down side: Hurricanes, Pythons & Gators, and too many Democrats..

My $00.00002
Yeah, but hunting pythons and feral pigs could occupy one’s time nicely.

[7624U]

Tennessee is the worst state in the Union! No Advantages here "Move Along"

[sg1987]

Tennessee is the worst state in the Union! No Advantages here "Move Along"

Good luck with that one.... many Texans are sending similar messages, but it’s not working for them. "If you build it, they will come." - urban sprawl on a grand scale. Perhaps many decades from now pioneers from over crowded red states will head into the wilderness of former blue states that have imploded, to re-settle the new frontier. :munchin

[doctom54]

The Ozarks. SW Missouri or NW Arkansas. In AR property taxes are frozen when you reach 65.

[Badger52]

Not as a pejorative but how self-sufficient do you see yourself and what, if any, current "amenities" do you anticipate foregoing? Just asking because a rural or semi-rural lifestyle may have some attractions for some, but often they don't realize what isn't going to be automatically done for them. If the answer is that you want to swap a CA city for some other city that's Ok too, just wondering.

It may not all be about the obviously naked economic factors.
:)

[Sohei]

The Ozarks. SW Missouri or NW Arkansas. In AR property taxes are frozen when you reach 65.

That's the areas we were recently looking at. We love the area around Eureka Springs northward into Missouri. We are still contemplating it now that I am retired. I was unaware of the property taxes being frozen at 65...that's great to know.

[Golf1echo]

Come and join us. Just look how happy the locals are :D

We always joked about the necessity for a “ Deliverance II” to stem the new growth. The irony is many people aren’t up for living year round in a rain forest or a seasonal town, the Realtors like reselling the same house every 3 years though.

Many locales have a “homestead” clause or something similar in place, if they are decent. This freezes or reduces your property taxes at a certain age. Several States don’t have State income tax as well however some make that up with sales tax or other fees. I imagine Cali. Is similar to what Colo. has become, fees for everything ie. DMV, Utilities, construction/development, usage, etc...I recommend calling a tax professional in the area your considering to ask specifics. Reviewing local news for the jist of politics, crime, and general priorities can help gain insights.

Another concern that should be on your radar are POAs ( property owners associations). An example in Colorado is that they were written to encourage out of state development and protect the associations. They can take your house , property, impose fines if you are not in their compliance. RL I’m sure you are aware of this double edged sword.

Growth can change everything...when your new neighbor builds a 10 million dollar home, guess what happens to your taxes?

[JJ_BPK]

Yeah, but hunting pythons and feral pigs could occupy one’s time nicely.

and put vittles on the BBQ :lifter:D:lifter

[Roguish Lawyer]

NC is infested with surly new yarkers and jerseyites, or is that jerseymites?

It is pretty solidly blue. If you do not have a concealed carry permit, you have to beg the sheriff, ok ask, for permission to purchase a handgun or rifle.
No private sales of firearms, all must be conducted through FFL. I had popped smoke before that lil beauty came to pass. Freedoms are shrinking fast in NC.
But the eastern half of NC has the best BBQ. It is a beautiful state.
They say the state flower is the dogwood, they lie, it is in fact the mold spore.

NC is therefore off the list!

[Roguish Lawyer]

Not as a pejorative but how self-sufficient do you see yourself and what, if any, current "amenities" do you anticipate foregoing? Just asking because a rural or semi-rural lifestyle may have some attractions for some, but often they don't realize what isn't going to be automatically done for them. If the answer is that you want to swap a CA city for some other city that's Ok too, just wondering.

It may not all be about the obviously naked economic factors.
:)

Probably a city like Nashville or Dallas because I need to be close to a decent-sized airport. Not retiring yet unfortunately. Just looking for lower taxes, less regulation, more freedom.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Tennessee is the worst state in the Union! No Advantages here "Move Along"

LOL, Tennessee is now in the lead!

[Badger52]

LOL, Tennessee is now in the lead!Ahh, the Streisand Effect. LMAO.
:cool:

[Ret10Echo]

Ok, so analytical DORK coming out

I've lived in a bunch of locals like most of us. I have bits and pieces I like of a number of locations. I also have some romanticized memories of locations that just aren't what they used to be before.

Without limitations there are factors to consider based upon the usual cost of living, tax laws, distance to services and amenities as well as entertainment. What of those matter to you?

Where I started a deeper dive was around the issues that seem to impact those that don't buy into the progressive liberal positions on key issues and have concern about the likelihood of implementation of those progressive liberal progroms.

After the broad brush down-select based upon items such as weather, waterfront, mountain, etc...there's this:

Instances of abridgement of Constitutional rights and implementation of programs against citizens will:

1. Occur initially in D (progressive) metropolitan areas first.

2. Will most likely occur in D controlled districts

3. Will occur in locations where Law Enforcement and Judiciary (to include attorneys general) are left-leaning

4. Geographically occur in:
a. Along major LOCs
b. In expanding, concentric circles from D strongholds or LE centers of gravity.
c. In areas where communication systems are robust (LMR, commercial wireless)
d. In areas with low CCW and weapons ownership

That litmus test along with tradeoffs on the other items I think are pretty good tools.

Subject to your thoughts


R10

[JimP]

Easy method: Just go and shoot the biggest Antifa douche you can find. Strap him/her/it/ze to the hood of your car and start driving towards the mountains. When you get somewhere where people say "Hey, what's that?" you know you just found home.

Another Buddy says just go to what you think is an ideal location. Put your radio on scan. If it picks up any rap stations, keep moving.

I'm a helper. it's what I do.

[rsdengler]

Well good luck wherever you decide, I still have my mindset on moving myself. I'll be visiting Texas coming up soon, see how I like that location. Florida, well my family is in Melbourne which I like and in Bonita Springs. I was thinking of NC, near Fayetteville only because I might have a work opportunity and I need to work, but not sure. I'm sooooo confused....lol....Okay, maybe Tennessee..hahahaha....:D

[Badger52]

Easy method: Just go and shoot the biggest Antifa douche you can find. Strap him/her/it/ze to the hood of your car and start driving towards the mountains. When you get somewhere where people say "Hey, what's that?" you know you just found home.

Another Buddy says just go to what you think is an ideal location. Put your radio on scan. If it picks up any rap stations, keep moving.

I'm a helper. it's what I do.LMMFAO. C'mon, fess up. You solved that Kobiyashi Maru thing too, did you?

[RCummings]

RL, Have you made a list of the things you don't like about California? It may be helpful in your search. My wife and I have been looking for a place for some time. I think we are barking up the wrong tree, looking for a place where the government isn't sticking their hand in our pocket at every opportunity.

Best of luck!

[Ret10Echo]

Things Like:

West Virginia considering three separate plans to eliminate income tax, Justice revises proposal
by Tyler Arnold, The Center Square
| April 07, 2021 08:30 AM



West Virginia is considering three different approaches to eliminating the state income tax – the House’s proposal, the Senate’s proposal and Gov. Jim Justice’s revised proposal.

The governor’s plan would enact changes more quickly, but would require future action to fully eliminate the income tax. The House and Senate plans create a plan to fully eliminate the income tax with one bill, but take a slower approach to reaching that goal.

Link (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/west-virginia-considering-three-separate-plans-to-eliminate-income-tax-justice-revises-proposal)

[Old Dog New Trick]

I got three acres on a hilltop outside Fort Hood/Killeen Texas with 20+ mile views. You would be under an hour and half to Dallas or Austin and have a commissary and PX 15 minutes away, a Super H-E-B (best grocery store in Texas) about 10 minutes away.

Now, whether you bought my three acres or the three acres that (I believe) are for sale next to me or bought all six you own much of the Southern view.

Note to self: building is at least twice as much as building elsewhere around those parts because it’s on top of a mesa. :eek:

Property taxes are extremely low.

[atticus finch]

Many of you have been trying to talk me into leaving California for many years, and it's looking like you will get your wish. Maybe not immediately, but soon enough. The wife just decided we need to go ASAP! So, now we have to decide where.

Kindly recommend alternative places to live and explain both the advantages and disadvantages. This is a serious question, but y'all have fun! I will tell you that the leading (but not only) candidates right now are Texas, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Florida.

:munchin


why Texas?

weather = three seasons 1. freezing cold 2. tornadoes 3. small children go outside & burst into flames (this would normally be called summertime).

as with most places, larger cities are bad news. Traffic in DFW is getting bad, really bad. (think I5 or 405 during rush hour.........)

Taxes, not perfect but better than average. Property taxes vary depending on location.

If you purchase land in sufficient quantity, it can qualify for agricultural exemption from property taxes. Amount of land needed varies depending on location. Also you'll need definite agricultural activity on the land or have the land declared habitat.
Doesn't eliminate property taxes but cuts them down to damn near nothing.,

Homesteading declaration on the land makes it illegal to seize it at state level if my understanding of that is correct.

Laws pretty decent albeit imperfect. Theft of private property, improperly referred to as "asset forfeiture" is popular with LE down here.

Other parts of the law, Tx penal code 38.02 being one example, are better than average.

LE and how they behave? From what I've experienced it is the same thing, know the law to protect yourself as there are untrustworthy LE here. Be polite however understand what you are dealing with.
Concealed carry is easy to get and on average LE here has no issue with it.


tornadoes? no big deal. I went through the Northridge earthquake, I was in echo park when it happened.
Tornadoes compared to earthquakes? I'll take tornadoes any day of the week and twice on sunday. No comparision, much easier to deal with.

Culture? same story some of the larger cities are either leftist or lean that direction, rural areas is very traditional. Voting maps show this clearly.

Politics? We have a bill in our legislature to develop a secession plan, if it passes that plan will be put to a public vote. secession from the US is also an official part of the state republican party platform. That speaks for itself.

Gov Abbott: less than perfect but better than average. Were we turning democrat he would not be in office and judging from where things stand right now, he'll win reelection easily.

The idea this state will turn democrat? I don't see that happening. Too much of the truth of the democrat socialists has been revealed to the public and that truth has been accepted by the public here.
People don't openly talk about it but once they do speak perhaps in private, they know and they don't want it.
Austin is the leftist butthole of this state. Not a proper example of the state overall.
mask law BS is one good example. I quit wearing a mask early on and nobody said a word to me about it. Privately at the counter of a lot of businesses people would state "screw the mask, its BS"
Walked right by a cop in a walmart & I had no mask on and he never even glanced at me. I was prepared to invoke section 19 of the Governors EO if he decided to make an issue of it however he didn't even glance at me.


Private property rights here are heavy duty. Laws reflect that very much. an individual can legally be shot depending on what they do in regards to private property.

Public land> there is very little here such as you have in the PRK, ie: going motorcycling, shooting, and so forth in the desert out there.

[doctom54]

Probably a city like Nashville or Dallas because I need to be close to a decent-sized airport. Not retiring yet unfortunately. Just looking for lower taxes, less regulation, more freedom.

XNA in Bentonville Ar has good connections everywhere. With the HQs for Walmart, J.B. Hunt and Tyson's there is a lot of business travel.

[bushmaster11]

Well...I chose GA. there a tax on property, but as a vet you get a break. Mine is $3.00 a year. stay away from ATL. Macon, Valdosta and may Savannah (because Ft Stewart is close). GA has 2d or 3d livable states money wise. Cheapest land is SW corner.

Just my $0.02

J. R. Sends
DOL

[Roguish Lawyer]

Easy method: Just go and shoot the biggest Antifa douche you can find. Strap him/her/it/ze to the hood of your car and start driving towards the mountains. When you get somewhere where people say "Hey, what's that?" you know you just found home.

Another Buddy says just go to what you think is an ideal location. Put your radio on scan. If it picks up any rap stations, keep moving.

I'm a helper. it's what I do.

:D

[PSM]

Politics? We have a bill in our legislature to develop a secession plan, if it passes that plan will be put to a public vote. secession from the US is also an official part of the state republican party platform. That speaks for itself.

This question was settled in 1865. It ain't gonna fly. I believe it was Grant that said that, except for the original 13 states, the rest were bought and paid for by the others. Unless Texas, or any other state, is willing to pay back the other states for their blood and treasure expenditures, it's DOA.

I do agree with tornadoes vs. earthquakes. There's no doppler radar for earthquakes and the damage footprint is MUCH smaller.

[Ret10Echo]

This question was settled in 1865. It ain't gonna fly. I believe it was Grant that said that, except for the original 13 states, the rest were bought and paid for by the others. Unless Texas, or any other state, is willing to pay back the other states for their blood and treasure expenditures, it's DOA.

I do agree with tornadoes vs. earthquakes. There's no doppler radar for earthquakes and the damage footprint is MUCH smaller.

Every time the topic of separation comes up it makes me chuckle....:munchin

"You keep thinkin' Butch... It's what you're good at"

[tom kelly]

China will not permit this....

[sg1987]

This question was settled in 1865. It ain't gonna fly. I believe it was Grant that said that, except for the original 13 states, the rest were bought and paid for by the others. Unless Texas, or any other state, is willing to pay back the other states for their blood and treasure expenditures, it's DOA.



I heard that the British once subscribed to the same philosophy and the will of the people helped them see the error of their assumptions.

[Pete]

Every state has good areas to live in - and bad ones. Just like cities - some areas are safer and better than other ones.

Two choices should drive anybody's choice.

1st would be climate. What are you looking for? Take North Carolina. The mountains can have some pretty rough winters but the summers are real nice. Sandhills area weather varies from cold in the winter with occasional snow to very hot and sticky in the summer. Coastal areas are right nice but you have the occasional Hurricane.

2nd would be political climate and taxes. Is it a state that you somewhat agree with the politics and can live with the taxes?

[7624U]

China will not permit this....

We need clear borders also. The migrants would not except the goal post being moved.

[atticus finch]

This question was settled in 1865. It ain't gonna fly. I believe it was Grant that said that, except for the original 13 states, the rest were bought and paid for by the others. Unless Texas, or any other state, is willing to pay back the other states for their blood and treasure expenditures, it's DOA.

You can believe that if you want to, it is a topic for different debate.

The point here as it applies to this subject is what that official plank, as well as the bill in our legislature, says about the political environment here.
There being a willingness to face very hard truths and act accordingly in the face of them. It is also a reflection of public sentiment, people may not talk about it openly, in private? The prevailing mindset is "yep, if thats what it takes then so be it"

it is the same for sanctuary legislation for the 2nd amendment, which has been brought up here. It is a reflection of the political environment as well as prevailing public sentiment.

I do agree with tornadoes vs. earthquakes. There's no doppler radar for earthquakes and the damage footprint is MUCH smaller.

tornadoes, we know what time of year, roughly what time of day, what storms are potentially dangerous, warnings of potentially dangerous weather on TV & radio, shelters can be built or bought, get in the car and leave the area if need be, on & on the list goes compared to an earthquake.

Anyone who gets caught in a tornado was simply not taking responsibility for themselves and paying attention to what is going on around them.

Along with that, a house can be strengthened to help withstand a tornado, one thing a person can do is strap the roof to the walls & tie the walls to the foundation, not impossible to do & that makes a major change.

Earthquake? there is no warning and no where to go, and damn near nothing you can do except ride it out and hope today is your luckiest day.

[Ret10Echo]

Basically, pick a State with an "F" rating :D


Scorecard (https://giffords.org/lawcenter/resources/scorecard/)

[mark46th]

Take a look at the islands of the coast off South Carolina and Georgia.

[bushmaster11]

If a major importance is signifcant requirement and cheaper land then Valdosta weather is hot and humid in summer and winter cold but no snow. If you do your own plane mostly CAVU. Land is reasonable, not as cheap as SW. No earthquakes, occasional tornados. macon is another with a reasonable airport, as well as savannah also decent airport.

J. R. sends
DOL

[GratefulCitizen]

Find a secure, inexpensive location to set up a home base, get a good RV setup, and live everywhere.
Why limit yourself to a single location?

[Roguish Lawyer]

If a major importance is signifcant requirement and cheaper land then Valdosta weather is hot and humid in summer and winter cold but no snow. If you do your own plane mostly CAVU. Land is reasonable, not as cheap as SW. No earthquakes, occasional tornados. macon is another with a reasonable airport, as well as savannah also decent airport.

J. R. sends
DOL

I had a case there about 8 years ago, had to drive there from Atlanta in the middle of the night when my flight to Valdosta was cancelled due to bad weather. That airport is awesome with one gate, LOL. I don't remember the name of the meat and three our local counsel took us to, but it was terrific.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Find a secure, inexpensive location to set up a home base, get a good RV setup, and live everywhere.
Why limit yourself to a single location?

Second that motion council.

[Joker]

Texas or Florida. No income tax and the homestead tax is less than what I was paying in NC. Both are large enough to have fun things to do and avoid folks, depending on where you choose to live.

[bandycpa]

Every state has good areas to live in - and bad ones. Just like cities - some areas are safer and better than other ones.

Two choices should drive anybody's choice.

1st would be climate. What are you looking for? Take North Carolina. The mountains can have some pretty rough winters but the summers are real nice. Sandhills area weather varies from cold in the winter with occasional snow to very hot and sticky in the summer. Coastal areas are right nice but you have the occasional Hurricane.

2nd would be political climate and taxes. Is it a state that you somewhat agree with the politics and can live with the taxes?

Agreed. Like here in Virginia. Our area is called "Four Seasons Country" and tends to live up to its name. Nothing extreme, but you get a taste of spring, summer, fall, and winter. (Plus the mountains here are beautiful).

Tax-wise we aren't too bad. 5.75% max individual rate. 5.3% sales tax. However, Virginia is about a year behind on Federal law changes. Creates some reconciling items of income additions/deductions (especially on asset depreciation methods). All this in the name of the budget.

Politically, we are red except for two massive blue dots (Richmond and NOVA), but those two dots swing the vote. Plus we have Ralph Northam and Tim Kaine.
Makes the rest of us mad enough to secede to WV, but why would WV want those kind of problems? :D

[The Reaper]

Virginia has far too many namby-state anti-Second Amendment laws in effect and more being proposed regularly.

Agree that the climate, scenery, history, etc. are great. I just can't wrap my mind around living in a blue state and all that entails.

Sad thing is, VA used to be a nice place to live.

TR

[Badger52]

No, it's not a CandyGram, get your mind out of the gutter.

I went down a rabbit hole for something else and managed to locate state taxes stolen from people, by several categories, by State, courtesy of the Census Bureau usingi FY2020 data. Impetus for the quest was the news that CA might lose a rep, and a few other states might gain a couple. Of course, all delay in actually releasing the really juicy stuff is blamed by the Faucists on Covid and OrangeManBad.

Anywho, here's the link. (https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2020/econ/stc/2020-annual.html) I thought it would be rather clunky to get it into a PDF filter, so it's just the link and you can view or download as Excel spreadsheets. One is pretty easy in summary to understand, the 2nd one listed is really granular and is meant to let your OCD shine.

At least you're not doing MDMP with a prescribed outcome.
:munchin

[JJ_BPK]

Virginia has far too many namby-state anti-Second Amendment laws in effect and more being proposed regularly.

Agree that the climate, scenery, history, etc. are great. I just can't wrap my mind around living in a blue state and all that entails.

Sad thing is, VA used to be a nice place to live.

TR

AGREED,, But the blues are concentrated, leaving a large red area. This is the 2020 presidential results.

[NurseTim]

AGREED,, But the blues are concentrated, leaving a large red area. This is the 2020 presidential results.

Wall off the blue areas, restrict access, mine the areas surrounding the wall to 200 meters with various anti personnel and anti armor mines. That should do it. Maybe a moat with naplam in it also surrounding the walls.

[Badger52]

Wall off the blue areas, restrict access, mine the areas surrounding the wall to 200 meters with various anti personnel and anti armor mines. That should do it. Maybe a moat with naplam in it also surrounding the walls.You could sell franchises to that design, Na-Shun-Wahhhd.

[Penn]

The state of Utah has a single personal income tax, with a flat rate of 4.95%. Sales taxes in Utah range from 6.10% to 9.05%, depending on local rates. Homeowners in Utah also pay exceptionally low property taxes, with an average effective rate of just 0.58%.

SLC great hub, fabulous outdoor sports, free 2a committed state.

This site works for any state. Regarding NC, Apple is opening a new campus in the near future.

https://smartasset.com/taxes/utah-tax-calculator#:~:text=The%20state%20of%20Utah%20has%2 0a%20single%20personal,with%20an%20average%20effec tive%20rate%20of%20just%200.58%25.

[RCummings]

Thanks for the link Penn.