AWG being disbanded?

[WarriorDiplomat]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/10/02/the-army-is-shutting-down-its-much-lauded-asymmetric-warfare-group/

I am not sure if this was ever a good idea given I dont know any good commanders who actually tried to correct their units tactical issues. They always seemed like they were producing information information for commanders who didnt want to do the work themselves to know what is going on

[Flagg]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/10/02/the-army-is-shutting-down-its-much-lauded-asymmetric-warfare-group/

I am not sure if this was ever a good idea given I dont know any good commanders who actually tried to correct their units tactical issues. They always seemed like they were producing information information for commanders who didnt want to do the work themselves to know what is going on

Rapid Equipping Force(REF) is gone as well.

An argument could be made they were both stop-gap & born to ultimately make themselves redundant.

Pete Newell’s(REF plankowner) IED slide is still the most impactful PowerPoint slide I’ve ever seen covering IED attacks and casualties overlaid with relative good/bad guy OODA loops.

It certainly looked like they saved a lot of lives.

But is problem curation, solution development, and rapid procurement so good now that it is actually true?


SOFWERX, AFWERX, DIUX, Hacking4Defense, etc have all been influenced or co-founded by folks from AWG/REF.

Further to that, the increasingly rare bi-partisan effort that created the Future of Defense Task Force 2020 report pushes hard for accelerating the kind of efforts AWG/REF were focused on.

I don’t know if chopping AWG/REF is a cost cutting initiative, a belief they were only good for CT support, or a belief that rapid institutional solution procurement makes them redundant.

What I do know is that the future fight between Clausewitz and Sun Tzu will probably be decided by which side better applies John Boyd prior to the fight.

[JimP]

I spent some time there in the early days. The original design concept espoused by GEN Cody when he was Vice was immediately neutered when he retired. It was more a rice bowl issue. Once Cody was gone and they didn't have a Godfather, the long-knives came out. They had some incredible talent, and weren't tied to many of the developmental rules hindering traditional orgs.

In my time there, we suffered monthly investigations - someone with stars coming in trying to shut it down. We'd have to go to the Pentagon weekly to brief the Army 3/5/7 on ops.

The only thing they found was on one particularly painful investigation with a total douche of a GO (can't recall assholes name) was that one NCO's date of her taking the PT test didn't match what was on the training calendar for that month. I shit you not!!

They still did some awesome things as they had the entire world as a JOA and there were some good programs running that few others could pull off. That's about all that can be said in this forum.

The death knell was when they were assigned to TRADOC....; they didn't know what to do with them and the Pentagon looks to have successfully killed what was originally envisioned as an incredible capability.

[doctom54]

What I do know is that the future fight between Clausewitz and Sun Tzu will probably be decided by which side better applies John Boyd prior to the fight.

Best quote I have heard in a long time.

[Intel NCO]

I spent some time there in the early days. The original design concept espoused by GEN Cody when he was Vice was immediately neutered when he retired. It was more a rice bowl issue. Once Cody was gone and they didn't have a Godfather, the long-knives came out. They had some incredible talent, and weren't tied to many of the developmental rules hindering traditional orgs.

In my time there, we suffered monthly investigations - someone with stars coming in trying to shut it down. We'd have to go to the Pentagon weekly to brief the Army 3/5/7 on ops.

The only thing they found was on one particularly painful investigation with a total douche of a GO (can't recall assholes name) was that one NCO's date of her taking the PT test didn't match what was on the training calendar for that month. I shit you not!!

They still did some awesome things as they had the entire world as a JOA and there were some good programs running that few others could pull off. That's about all that can be said in this forum.

The death knell was when they were assigned to TRADOC....; they didn't know what to do with them and the Pentagon looks to have successfully killed what was originally envisioned as an incredible capability.


Lots of interesting points in here. I was trying to apply, but they said they weren't hiring which was odd to me, then this came out so it makes sense.

Going back to 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia, hybrid warfare has only increased. We're going to see a lot of continuous low level conflicts globally and Big Army seems to be focused on slicing that skillset out in favor of an envisioned WW3 that's highly improbable to occur at the expense of fighting the wars we're likely to continue fighting.

[Ret10Echo]

Seems like kicking the antiquated and slow procurement process in the teeth was a good idea.