View Full Version : Right To Repair
Ret10Echo
09-18-2020, 08:57
At first this seemed rather odd but I believe this is spillover from Tesla and Musk's absolute control over vehicles they produce for the life of the vehicle and then afterward (salvage) as well.
Interesting from a technological perspective as well as the ongoing question of data-ownership. This will also spill into the big-brother and government system when all the states turn to mileage taxes on motor vehicles in order to levy taxes.
Massachusetts Right to Repair
WHAT THE ISSUE IS
This November, Massachusetts voters will have the opportunity to vote for a ballot initiative that would provide them with access to their mechanical data and would permit them to share that data with the repair shop of their choice. Specifically, this ballot initiative would require:
Prospective owners of motor vehicles to receive a notice when they purchase a vehicle that includes an explanation of motor vehicle telematics and its purposes, a description summarizing the mechanical data collected, stored, and transmitted by a telematics system and the owner’s ability to access the vehicle’s mechanical data through a mobile device and owner’s right to authorize an independent shop to access the mechanical data for the purposes of diagnostics repair and maintenance.
Right to Repair dot org (https://massrighttorepair.org/)
Auto care dot org (https://www.autocare.org/government-affairs/issues/massachusetts-right-to-repair/)
At first this seemed rather odd but I believe this is spillover from Tesla and Musk's absolute control over vehicles they produce for the life of the vehicle and then afterward (salvage) as well.[/URL]
Not sure that they are that tight on salvage. A couple of years ago Rep. Tom Massie (R-KY) salvaged an S model's batteries and used them to replace the lead-acid batteries to power his home. He made a video of the process: https://www.*******.com/watch?v=qpPYkqpe-Ms
BTW, We're switching from lead-acid to lithium next week (I hope) to power our house. From 24 batteries that need some monthly maintenance to 3 that don't. :lifter
This has been going on for a number of years with farm equipment.
https://www.magzter.com/article/Business/Bloomberg-Businessweek/WHO-REALLY-OWNS-A-JOHN-DEERE
Ret10Echo
09-18-2020, 11:57
Not sure that they are that tight on salvage. A couple of years ago Rep. Tom Massie (R-KY) salvaged an S model's batteries and used them to replace the lead-acid batteries to power his home. He made a video of the process: https://www.*******.com/watch?v=qpPYkqpe-Ms
BTW, We're switching from lead-acid to lithium next week (I hope) to power our house. From 24 batteries that need some monthly maintenance to 3 that don't. :lifter
Check out Rich Rebuilds on that video channel... Richiebkid I think on Insta___.. on Tesla controls and shutting down rapid charging etc..
It's not about pulling parts but about repairing ones that have salvage title and getting them back on the road.
Badger52
09-18-2020, 18:45
BTW, We're switching from lead-acid to lithium next week (I hope) to power our house. From 24 batteries that need some monthly maintenance to 3 that don't. :lifter Awesome! Pics or it didn't happen.
:p
This has been going on for a number of years with farm equipment.
https://www.magzter.com/article/Business/Bloomberg-Businessweek/WHO-REALLY-OWNS-A-JOHN-DEERE
John Deere in by far one of the most egregious examples.
Business models for the automotive, trucking, power sports, and at equipment sectors are in absolute upheaval.
Most new product is sold at very low gross profit margin.
Manufacturers squeeze and control their dealership network small business owners to the point where the only profit generated is thru performance incentives.
If you hit target you get incentives, if you don’t you starve to death.
Manufacturers push volume not so much for profit from the durable goods, but from their massive spare parts margins.
Dealerships are limited in their spare parts markup, so the only thing left is workshop service labor.
So closed systems keep dealership networks from dying.
But ******* is creating a new generation of DIY users.
I’m all for Right to Repair....but I’m also mindful that there are a few million jobs tied to sectors with ruthless and precarious financial environments.
EVs will also upend the same sectors as service requirements are a fraction of ICE.
Check out Rich Rebuilds on that video channel... Richiebkid I think on Insta___.. on Tesla controls and shutting down rapid charging etc..
Interesting site. I'll have to spend some time there since I'm not watching any sports (other than women's beach volleyball) any more.
Awesome! Pics or it didn't happen.
:p
OK, but they'll be boring.
Badger52
09-19-2020, 17:40
OK, but they'll be boring.Just jerkin' your chain. Nice move though.
WarriorDiplomat
10-01-2020, 12:45
This has been going on for a number of years with farm equipment.
https://www.magzter.com/article/Business/Bloomberg-Businessweek/WHO-REALLY-OWNS-A-JOHN-DEERE
Absolutely right and the reason farmers are getting rid of the technological money pits and going back to pre tech equipment
This has been going on for a number of years with farm equipment.
https://www.magzter.com/article/Business/Bloomberg-Businessweek/WHO-REALLY-OWNS-A-JOHN-DEERE
Absolutely a serious problem with farmers. If dealerships included free on site service calls with a brief amount of response time it would be a no-brainer for farmers to upgrade their equipment. New equipment sales would go way up. Service after the sale is a common problem in all forms of equipment retail whether farm equipment, commercial trucks, cars, etc.
Golf1echo
10-01-2020, 17:28
A few years back I bought a used Isuzu box truck from Ryder, it’s been a good truck and the 5.2 turbo diesel has been a great engine... been across the country several times. Recently I discovered oil in the coolant, took it to a shop and after a few days they said they couldn’t work on it, the 5.2 in particular, they have no access to software or parts. Calling around several places said that. Perhaps they didn’t want to work on it but that seemed very strange! I’m not sure if it’s the same thing as what is being said here? I figured out of curiosity I’d look into it.
I did find a shop that specializes in trucks and someone who I do business with also recommended them so I’m hopeful they’ll get it fixed. There are a lot of them around, puzzling...
A few years back I bought a used Isuzu box truck from Ryder, it’s been a good truck and the 5.2 turbo diesel has been a great engine... been across the country several times. Recently I discovered oil in the coolant, took it to a shop and after a few days they said they couldn’t work on it, the 5.2 in particular, they have no access to software or parts. Calling around several places said that. Perhaps they didn’t want to work on it but that seemed very strange! I’m not sure if it’s the same thing as what is being said here? I figured out of curiosity I’d look into it.
I did find a shop that specializes in trucks and someone who I do business with also recommended them so I’m hopeful they’ll get it fixed. There are a lot of them around, puzzling...
Closed loop firmware/software is in the best interest of manufacturer/distributor/retail networks, but they do get cracked, most commonly with Japanese “Fast and Furious” type vehicles like a muscle car mod ecosystem.
But there are also designs that are done so with intent, or just expected flaws.
One personal example, with our first kid on the way(A long time ago), I bought my wife a used Mercedes S Class as it was the safest car in the world at the time.
But it had a wire loom fault, which was an issue for that particular model.
The wire loom went straight thru the block and compelled a total tear down and rebuilt as per factory/dealer.
A Mercedes trained tech I know bought a bunch of used arthroscopes(keyhole surgery) and replaced the looms without requring tear down and rebuilt.
So sometimes it’s planned obsolescence(intent) and sometimes poor design while always trying to win the yin/yang battle between closed systems and ease of owner determined repair.
What little I do know about the Isuzu 5.2 is that is has a crazy high reliability/longevity rating.
It sounds like thr diesel equivalent of the old Slant 6, a really reliable understressed motor.
Ambush Master
10-02-2020, 22:38
Digging into this.............Looks interesting!!