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I am a bit hard headed in some area's, but also one that follows a question, this one I've taken apart several times, and still need to understand why my answer of .10c is incorrect.
What is a declarative statemen?
A declarative sentence (also know as a statement) makes a statement and ends with a period. It's named appropriately because it declares or states something. It might be more helpful, though, to think about what these kinds of sentences don't do. They don't ask questions, make commands, or make statements with emotion.
A bat and ball Cost $1.10.
The sentence states the cost of the bat and ball, declaring that the cost of a “bat and ball cost $1.10.
The second declarative statement
The bat cost one dollar more than the ball.
How much does the ball cost?
It ain't ten cents.
This is a humor thingy.
It'd actually question in a book written by a Nobel prize winner, Daniel Kahneman, had just finish a book on breaking down question, and remembered a required reading for a class: Thinking fast and slow, picking it up again, I remember how difficult some of the problems set were, this being one of them, which I still don't understand, why my effort is wasted, and why I came to the same conclusion 5yrs later?
PedOncoDoc
04-20-2020, 16:59
It ain't ten cents.
This is a humor thingy.
I'd say the ball costs $0.05 and the bat $1.05 for a total of $1.10 assuming that the individual prices are not higher than the package deal. ;)
Ok, PenDoc. explain if you will the process you employed to reach that conclusion.
Bat and Ball cost $1.10. There is no separation, its a declarative statement.
The bat cost one dollar more than the ball.
Because there is no fixed value of either item in both statements.
Just that one value is "one dollar more".
You have fixed yourself to $1 and try and solve the problem.
Alright, I fix/settled in a @ $1.00 for the bat, which would imply the remaining balance to be .10c.
Why is .05c the correct answer?
$1 more than 10 cents is $1.10 plus 10 cents equals $1.20.
WarriorDiplomat
04-20-2020, 17:42
I am a bit hard headed in some area's, but also one that follows a question, this one I've taken apart several times, and still need to understand why my answer of .10c is incorrect.
What is a declarative statemen?
A declarative sentence (also know as a statement) makes a statement and ends with a period. It's named appropriately because it declares or states something. It might be more helpful, though, to think about what these kinds of sentences don't do. They don't ask questions, make commands, or make statements with emotion.
A bat and ball Cost $1.10.
The sentence states the cost of the bat and ball, declaring that the cost of a “bat and ball cost $1.10.
The second declarative statement
The bat cost one dollar more than the ball.
How much does the ball cost?
The bat would cost 1.05 while the ball cost .05
The nickels cancel each other out leaving 1$ for the bat
But thats not the declarative statement, the declarative statements is:
A bat and Ball cost $1.10.
FIXing the price for the two at $1.10
The question reads as a direct single statement. The second statement declares the value of the bat and at a fix price of One (1) dollar.
Deductive reasoning as a property of subtraction, gets me to the fixed cost of the ball at .10C.
There is no suggestion to add the total cost for the bat and ball, which is fixed at $1.10, to the result of the deductive value of $1.10 +.10= $1.20. when the second declarative statement fixes the bat at 1.00 dollar.
Could the problem be flawed?
WarriorDiplomat
04-20-2020, 17:53
But thats not the declarative statement, the declarative statements is:
A bat and Ball cost $1.10.
FIXing the price for the two at $1.10
The question reads as a direct single statement. The second statement declares the value of the bat and at a fix price of One (1) dollar.
Deductive reasoning as a property of subtraction, gets me to the fixed cost of the ball at .10C.
There is no suggestion to add the total cost for the bat and ball, which is fixed at $1.10, to the result of the deductive value of $1.10 +.10= $1.20. when the second declarative statement fixes the bat at 1.00 dollar.
Could the problem be flawed?
The second declarative statement does not assign the cost breakdown it simply states the bat cost 1$ more than the ball the first statement gives the combined cost if the ball cost .10 and you spent 1$ on the bat then the bat would only have cost .90 more than the ball.....the problem requires you to come up with a 1$ difference the only way to place the value difference is by splitting everything over 1$ by half and assigning the split to each product so that everything over the 1$ is cancelled out leaving the true difference in cost at 1$...the bat costing 1.05 the ball costing .05 the subtraction should be the cost of the ball subtracted from the cost of the bat leaving a difference of 1$
WD, I understand the math as presented by you.
By valuing the ball at .10C and adding to the total valet the two fixed at $1.10 the result is $1.20, I get that. However a declarative sentence is finished statement.
The first of the two decorative statements assess values first at $1.10 and the second at $1.00.
The statement $1.10 is final. Nothing to be added.
The statement bat value @ 1.00 is final.
The question how much cost of the ball is deductive.
A-B=C
C+B=A
Edit to add: I am grateful fo all taking the time to walk me through this problem. It interesting that my thinking understand your reasoned replies, but is still conflicted with the rational responses.
bat + ball = 1.10
bat = ball + 1.00
Substituting the bottom line into the first line you get
ball + 1.00 + ball = 1.10
Solving this
(2)ball = .10
ball = .05
Substituting the ball info into the first line
bat + .05 = 1.10
bat = 1.05
Wook
Wook, that framing is what was missing for me. The issue was sentence structure and not understanding the method to restructure/frame the question as a form to decipher. Thank you all again!!!!!
WarriorDiplomat
04-20-2020, 20:09
WD, I understand the math as presented by you.
By valuing the ball at .10C and adding to the total valet the two fixed at $1.10 the result is $1.20, I get that. However a declarative sentence is finished statement.
The first of the two decorative statements assess values first at $1.10 and the second at $1.00.
The statement $1.10 is final. Nothing to be added.
The statement bat value @ 1.00 is final.
The question how much cost of the ball is deductive.
A-B=C
C+B=A
Edit to add: I am grateful fo all taking the time to walk me through this problem. It interesting that my thinking understand your reasoned replies, but is still conflicted with the rational responses.
I understand what you are saying but you are reading the problem wrong it does not say the bat value is $1 it says the bat costs $1 MORE THAN the ball and that the TOTAL COST of both is $1.10
I can see clearly where you are stuck and that is how you are reading he declarative statements for some reason you understand it to give you a definitive amount of value for the bat which it does not....if it did give you the exact value of the bat then the question has no point and the answer would be simply right/wrong or agree/disagree
WarriorDiplomat
04-20-2020, 20:14
I am a bit hard headed in some area's, but also one that follows a question, this one I've taken apart several times, and still need to understand why my answer of .10c is incorrect.
What is a declarative statemen?
A declarative sentence (also know as a statement) makes a statement and ends with a period. It's named appropriately because it declares or states something. It might be more helpful, though, to think about what these kinds of sentences don't do. They don't ask questions, make commands, or make statements with emotion.
A bat and ball Cost $1.10.
The sentence states the cost of the bat and ball, declaring that the cost of a “bat and ball cost $1.10.
The second declarative statement
The bat cost one dollar more than the ball.
How much does the ball cost?
Highlighted in the original is where you are stuck
The statement bat value @ 1.00 is final.
The question how much cost of the ball is deductive.
A-B=C
C+B=A
Edit to add: I am grateful fo all taking the time to walk me through this problem. It interesting that my thinking understand your reasoned replies, but is still conflicted with the rational responses.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you are saying but you are reading the problem wrong it does not say the bat value is $1 it says the bat costs $1 MORE THAN the ball and that the TOTAL COST of both is $1.10
I can see clearly where you are stuck and that is how you are reading the declarative statements for some reason you understand it to give you a definitive amount of value for the bat which it does not....if it did give you the exact value of the bat then the question has no point and the answer would be simply right/wrong or agree/disagree
All, thank you! WD, I now thoroughly understand the process and my error. An artist brain attempting to cross over to the other hemisphere.
X and Y Cost $13.90
X is $13.00 more than Y
How much does Y cost
Y = .45C
Or as Wook
X + Y = 13.90
bat = ball + 13.00
Substituting the bottom line into the first line you get
Y+ 13.00 + X = 13.90
Solving this
(2)y = .90
X = .45
Substituting the X info into the first line
Y + .45 = 13.45
bat = .45
GratefulCitizen
04-21-2020, 10:18
A + B = $1.10
A - B = $.10
Add the equations together.
2A + 0 = $1.20
2A = $1.20
A = $.60
B = $.50
PedOncoDoc
04-21-2020, 10:29
A + B = $1.10
A - B = $.10
Add the equations together.
2A + 0 = $1.20
2A = $1.20
A = $.60
B = $.50
Nope. A -B = 1.0 in your equation. so 2a would equal 0.1, thus a equals 0.05.
To look at it another way:
Let's use "A" as the cost of the ball. Since the bat is $1 more, it can be rewritten as "A+1"
So A+A+1 = 1.1 simplify to 2A +1 =1.1
Now subtract 1 from both sides: 2A = 0.1
Divide both by 2: A = 0.05.
Double check your work 0.05 +(0.05 +1) = 1.1
0.05 + 1.05 = 1.1
All checks out.
GratefulCitizen
04-21-2020, 10:43
Nope. A -B = 1.0 in your equation. so 2a would equal 0.1, thus a equals 0.05.
To look at it another way:
Let's use "A" as the cost of the ball. Since the bat is $1 more, it can be rewritten as "A+1"
So A+A+1 = 1.1 simplify to 2A +1 =1.1
Now subtract 1 from both sides: 2A = 0.1
Divide both by 2: A = 0.05.
Double check your work 0.05 +(0.05 +1) = 1.1
0.05 + 1.05 = 1.1
All checks out.
Oops.
Glanced at it on my phone.
Thought it said one was $.10 more than the other.
That would have been the correct answer for that question.
Given proper A - B:
A + B = $1.10
A - B = $1.00
Add the equations together.
2A + 0 = $2.10
2A = $2.10
A = $1.05
B = $.05
__________________
WarriorDiplomat
04-21-2020, 14:08
All, thank you! WD, I now thoroughly understand the process and my error. An artist brain attempting to cross over to the other hemisphere.
X and Y Cost $13.90
X is $13.00 more than Y
How much does Y cost
Y = .45C
Or as Wook
X + Y = 13.90
bat = ball + 13.00
Substituting the bottom line into the first line you get
Y+ 13.00 + X = 13.90
Solving this
(2)y = .90
X = .45
Substituting the X info into the first line
Y + .45 = 13.45
bat = .45
LOL No issue I get it my wives family is split down the science/math side with advanced degrees and the other half more the artistic side....I am lucky that I am fairly centered in understanding both without completely being overpowered one direction or the other but leaned toward math and science
Being a math oriented centrist is why I know the Wuhan Virus media crap is exactly that crap....math logic is why I know the media is lying through their teeth purposely by giving out numbers and percentages when I know that without exact data to begin with the rest is impossible to know...this is also why when Fauci and other scientists who should be good at math since MD's are more science than anything I know they are giving false data....how can you suggest logically that the death rate is 10x that of the flu when you do not know the actual basic number of infected to begin with....the entire problem relies on the exact number of infected to extrapolate from then the next logical question is how can they know who is dying from the flu turned pneumonia and who is dying from Covid19? again it cannot be determined without testing and they are barely getting tests of which the accuracy is questionable....they are using the math they use legally when it comes to surveys the 1000 cross section of people whom they claim represents the city of New York....we have no idea where they are getting these numbers unless the scientist are lying or the media is lying about their lies and everyone is pointing fingers at each other....the next step in logic is motivations for giving false information and as someone pointed out....funding??? perhaps or perhaps mass hysteria has taken over thanks to the media and every trusted member of elected government and there educated experts pushing the narrative. I have seen predictive models used that is completely false without baseline data and the fallacy of it is there are no intangibles involved in the equations...essentially predictive modeling is like calculating minutes of angle of a sniper round except snipers use terrain and conditions to extract relative factors....predictive modelling is useful but not without a baseline. The fear and panic created by this is why this is dangerous because the logic is not there in mass hysteria and the willing agents of mass hysteria is the media and leftist officials.
A bat and ball Cost $1.10.
The sentence states the cost of the bat and ball, declaring that the cost of a “bat and ball cost $1.10.
The bat cost one dollar more than the ball.
How much does the ball cost?
I looked at it backwards
0.05 + 1.05 = 1.10
1.05 - 0.05 = 1.00
:munchin
LOL No issue I get it my wives family is split down the science/math side with advanced degrees and the other half more the artistic side....I am lucky that I am fairly centered in understanding both without completely being overpowered one direction or the other but leaned toward math and science
Being a math oriented centrist is why I know the Wuhan Virus media crap is exactly that crap....math logic is why I know the media is lying through their teeth purposely by giving out numbers and percentages when I know that without exact data to begin with the rest is impossible to know...this is also why when Fauci and other scientists who should be good at math since MD's are more science than anything I know they are giving false data....how can you suggest logically that the death rate is 10x that of the flu when you do not know the actual basic number of infected to begin with....the entire problem relies on the exact number of infected to extrapolate from then the next logical question is how can they know who is dying from the flu turned pneumonia and who is dying from Covid19? again it cannot be determined without testing and they are barely getting tests of which the accuracy is questionable....they are using the math they use legally when it comes to surveys the 1000 cross section of people whom they claim represents the city of New York....we have no idea where they are getting these numbers unless the scientist are lying or the media is lying about their lies and everyone is pointing fingers at each other....the next step in logic is motivations for giving false information and as someone pointed out....funding??? perhaps or perhaps mass hysteria has taken over thanks to the media and every trusted member of elected government and there educated experts pushing the narrative. I have seen predictive models used that is completely false without baseline data and the fallacy of it is there are no intangibles involved in the equations...essentially predictive modeling is like calculating minutes of angle of a sniper round except snipers use terrain and conditions to extract relative factors....predictive modelling is useful but not without a baseline. The fear and panic created by this is why this is dangerous because the logic is not there in mass hysteria and the willing agents of mass hysteria is the media and leftist officials.
WD figure this problem out.
You and your patrol are walking in the woods and pick a good spot for your ORP. You get a call on the radio with another patrol wanting to do a link-up with you. One of your patrol members radio's back to the other patrol and wants a grid.
They reply with their grid and your CSM makes a suggestion after looking at his compass and map. Tell them to set their azimuth to 15 degree off the Moon we are 500m pace count off that bearing.
Whats your answer !
WarriorDiplomat
04-21-2020, 17:50
WD figure this problem out.
You and your patrol are walking in the woods and pick a good spot for your ORP. You get a call on the radio with another patrol wanting to do a link-up with you. One of your patrol members radio's back to the other patrol and wants a grid.
They reply with their grid and your CSM makes a suggestion after looking at his compass and map. Tell them to set their azimuth to 15 degree off the Moon we are 500m pace count off that bearing.
Whats your answer !
The CSM was then and is no doubt now nuttier than a squirrel turd
LOL I remember hearing about that
Algebra version, for those confused by the verbal logic version of this.
Ball = X
Bat = (X + 1.00)
Total cost = 1.10
Total cost = X + (X + 1.00)
Total cost = 2X + 1.00
1.10 = 2X + 1.00
-1.00 -1.00
---------------------------
.10 = 2X
.10/2 = 2X/2
.05 = X
.05 = Ball price
:lifter
A deeper question is, if you give the person at the cash register a $2 bill (sic) how much change well you receive, if any?
A deeper question is, if you give the person at the cash register a $2 bill (sic) how much change well you receive, if any?
Trick question. Store is closed for COVID.
Trick question. Store is closed for COVID.
Nice try!
My step-father and a neighbor raised quarter horses in the '60s and went to the races every weekend. He had stacks of $2 bills gummed together like counter checks (some of you youngsters may have to look that up). Before I went to Okinawa in '68, he gave me ten. The first day on the island I bought a burger and Coke at the PX and paid with a two dollar bill. I got change for a twenty back. :lifter And I had nine left. :D
PedOncoDoc
04-22-2020, 07:08
Nice try!
My step-father and a neighbor raised quarter horses in the '60s and went to the races every weekend. He had stacks of $2 bills gummed together like counter checks (some of you youngsters may have to look that up). Before I went to Okinawa in '68, he gave me ten. The first day on the island I bought a burger and Coke at the PX and paid with a two dollar bill. I got change for a twenty back. :lifter And I had nine left. :D
I've heard stories of the younger generation calling the cops on people trying to pay with $2 bills thinking it's counterfeit. They didn't realize that the US had made currency in that denomination.
I've heard stories of the younger generation calling the cops on people trying to pay with $2 bills thinking it's counterfeit. They didn't realize that the US had made currency in that denomination.
They still do occasionally. The last printing was in 2019 but none will be printed this year. They're still popular at racetracks apparently.
Based purely on the point that we are talking about "declarative sentences" I would opine that the ball does NOT cost five cents.
A declarative sentence stands on its own. Two different sentences do not automaticly conflate data unless expressly defined as part of the statement.
When a stand alone statement is, "The bat cost one dollar more than the ball."
My answer to the stand alone question, "How much does the ball cost?" could be answered two different ways....
What ball ?
or
A dollar less than the bat.
Box, it took me a week to get out of that box, and now Box, I'm right back in that box.
QP,s.....always thinking out of the box! :lifter
miclo18d
04-23-2020, 11:43
Ah ffs! When was this question posited? 1868? When has a baseball ever cost .05? And a bat 1.05? YGTBFSM!!!
:D
Ah ffs! When was this question posited? 1868? When has a baseball ever cost .05? And a bat 1.05? YGTBFSM!!!
:D
Relax; the question wasn't referring to "that" ball at all.
In fact, I find it presumptive and biased that everyone automatically assumes that the original question was about the cost of a baseball and baseball bat in the context of American sporting goods.
Maybe the original question came from Wuhan China at supper time and they were asking about a ball of rice and some corona-meat?
Maybe it was referring to the sport of Cricket in the context of Victorian era England.
Wiffle-Ball equipment is pretty cheap - maybe the original question was about plastic toys.
There is even some remote possibility that we are talking about sporting goods needed to play a friendly game of Danish Longball.
The important thing to remember is, "How much does the ball cost?"
...I'm sticking with "What ball?"
I didnt even bother to get into the possibility that someone that was assigned female at birth may have written that question from the cis-gendered stereotypical perspective of a softball player.
who knows....
Old Dog New Trick
04-23-2020, 12:16
Democratic and liberal news pundits believe the President could have divided a $450,000,000 stimulus package amongst all Americans (330,000,000) and given each person $1.36 million dollars. Just ask Brian Williams and AOC.
Sometimes math is hard!
Badger52
04-23-2020, 16:18
Democratic and liberal news pundits believe the President could have divided a $450,000,000 stimulus package amongst all Americans (330,000,000) and given each person $1.36 million dollars. Just ask Brian Williams and AOC.
Sometimes math is hard!So it's not just a Common Core thing?
Anthropoid
04-26-2020, 02:45
It is possibly misleading to think of this problem as a mathematical one. Because the simple arithmetic is easily deducible, one's instinct is to focus on the arithmetic instead of the grammatical problem that underlies it. It is a matter of content versus structure.
As you indicated, a declarative statement is a grammatical structure. Its content is independent of its status as a declarative statement. Another term for it is a proposition. The content of this particular statement is about the bat and ball and the cost, but the basic structural relationship is equality to $1.10 by way of cost.
The second proposition, that the bat costs $1.00 more than the ball, is structurally a "greater than" statement. The content is bat, ball, and some notion of cost; but the structure is "greater than." Mathematically speaking, it makes sense to say that the ball only costs $0.10 or $0.05, but both of these responses are made with respect to the content of the proposition, not its structure. On the other hand, using a grammatical deduction, i.e., with reference only to the bat's "greater than" relation to the ball in the second proposition, we can only express the ball's cost as a "less than" relation to the bat. In other words, the ball costs $1.00 less than the bat.
Anthropoid, that was nicely done!
WarriorDiplomat
05-04-2020, 22:03
Democratic and liberal news pundits believe the President could have divided a $450,000,000 stimulus package amongst all Americans (330,000,000) and given each person $1.36 million dollars. Just ask Brian Williams and AOC.
Sometimes math is hard!
It is but lets be fair the brain of a leftist struggles with complex math addition, subtraction, multiplication and division forget geometry or that crazy math with letters in it.....I mean moving the decimal point is Einstein level in their world plus there is a lot of zeros I mean holy crap.....Also keep in mind that math requires logic and precision and well we know how the left is when it comes to these things