View Full Version : LTC Vindman
Trapper John
11-21-2019, 08:03
While watching the choreographed soap opera that is the impeachment hearings I was concerned at the appearance of LTC Vindman in full uniform. This became especially concerning to me after listening to what he had to say. His personal story and family history was quite emotive. He related the story of how he was injured by an IED in Iraq, received the Purple Heart and was queried at length by one of the committee members about his CIB. By the end of the day it was clear to me he was used as a prop, a tool, and a rather dull one at that, to promote a political narrative. So my question is: how is it that a LTC in full uniform can be used in such a public and political fashion? IMHO LTC should be censured if not punished under UCMJ. YMMV Maybe it's just me, but I think this was a dishonor to the US Army!:mad:
miclo18d
11-21-2019, 08:49
Political kabuki
LTC Oliver North
ETA: I agree with you, but this is politics. All of their witnesses weren’t even on the call and none of them set policy. This is a “deep state” attack to stay inside DJT’s OODA loop. They have no plans to impeach, that would back fire badly. Their plan is to keep him on the ropes and make him “look” corrupt and inept.
To be honest, this campaign is something SF guys should employ with an insurgency! Making the govt look inept is a major part of a U-Dub campaign!
Ret10Echo
11-21-2019, 09:50
Political kabuki
LTC Oliver North
ETA: I agree with you, but this is politics. All of their witnesses weren’t even on the call and none of them set policy. This is a “deep state” attack to stay inside DJT’s OODA loop. They have no plans to impeach, that would back fire badly. Their plan is to keep him on the ropes and make him “look” corrupt and inept.
To be honest, this campaign is something SF guys should employ with an insurgency! Making the govt look inept is a major part of a U-Dub campaign!
Perhaps combined with the last Dim-(so-called) "debate" where it was all love and hugs. Staged to create a more broad contrast to the characterization of the current Administration (??)
The old approach of "I don't have to be good, I just need to make you look bad"
While watching the choreographed soap opera that is the impeachment hearings I was concerned at the appearance of LTC Vindman in full uniform. This became especially concerning to me after listening to what he had to say. His personal story and family history was quite emotive. He related the story of how he was injured by an IED in Iraq, received the Purple Heart and was queried at length by one of the committee members about his CIB. By the end of the day it was clear to me he was used as a prop, a tool, and a rather dull one at that, to promote a political narrative. So my question is: how is it that a LTC in full uniform can be used in such a public and political fashion? IMHO LTC should be censured if not punished under UCMJ. YMMV Maybe it's just me, but I think this was a dishonor to the US Army!:mad:
Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?
LTC Oliver North
True enough, but he was at the defense table, not the prosecutor's.
Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?
You are if it is for personal reasons. You should wear it if your acting in an official manor. He was right to wear it in a hearing.
Airbornelawyer
11-22-2019, 10:17
Military officers assigned to the staff of the National Security Council do not wear their uniforms while performing in that function. LTC North was no longer assigned to the NSC staff when he testified at the Iran-Contra hearings, but was assigned somewhere in the Pentagon or Henderson Barracks (I can't remember exactly where).
Trapper John
11-22-2019, 17:39
Military officers assigned to the staff of the National Security Council do not wear their uniforms while performing in that function. LTC North was no longer assigned to the NSC staff when he testified at the Iran-Contra hearings, but was assigned somewhere in the Pentagon or Henderson Barracks (I can't remember exactly where).
I thought that was the case and even though Vindman was appearing under subpoena he should be wearing his duty uniform, a suit?? Shiff just wanted this circus choreographed and the military dress uniform played better for his purposes. Talk about politicizing tne military. :mad: And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!:mad:
I thought that was the case and even though Vindman was appearing under subpoena he should be wearing his duty uniform, a suit?? Shiff just wanted this circus choreographed and the military dress uniform played better for his purposes. Talk about politicizing tne military. :mad: And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!:mad:
I have no way of knowing, but I imagine that the good LTC got some kind of rules of the road from DoD on dress, do’s and don’ts,etc. Seeing how the army has a two star in charge of congressional liaisons, I’d be super surprised if no one from that office gave him a talk before hand.....or after, seeing how things went.
Sinister
11-23-2019, 19:08
Correctly me if I'm off, but I thought that military personnel was prohibited from wearing their uniform when actively performing in a POLITICAL dialog or event?
His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.
As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.
I And of course Vindman would play along being the POG that he is!:mad:
I don't know his political leanings or his details. However, I do see a Infantry LTC with a Ranger Tab and a Purple Heart and CIB. POG? Maybe. Maybe not.
Trapper John
11-24-2019, 08:12
I don't know his political leanings or his details. However, I do see a Infantry LTC with a Ranger Tab and a Purple Heart and CIB. POG? Maybe. Maybe not.
I certainly did not mean to disparage his awards (especially purple heart & CIB). If anything I said was taken that way - please accept my sincerest apology.
Trapper John out!
Trapper John
11-24-2019, 08:21
His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.
As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.
I have always been under the impression that AD military are to remain apolitical when acting in an official capacity. Haven't you just argued against that? Forgive me, I may be confused. :confused:
Trapper John
11-24-2019, 08:42
His every day duty uniform might be a suit, but if he's a military officer (a Foreign Area Officer working for the Defense Intelligence Agency -- a declared military intelligence collector) and I was the Chief of Staff of the Army I'd own his ass if he wasn't testifying before Congress in a uniform on a case of presidential impeachment -- especially if you are testifying for the government.
As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.
As a military officer on a detail or assignment he still works for somebody in a military chain-of-command.[/QUOTE]
And this raises another question: When Vindman had "concerns" about the July 25 phone call, he reported his concerns outside of his CoC and went directly to legal council first. :confused:
This whole thing has become a "circus" and Vindman's appearance in dress uniform just casts the US Army as complicit and far from apolitical! IMHO this IS a problem and a BIG one at that!:mad: YMMV
Remington Raidr
11-24-2019, 16:25
Vindman, laboring in the trenches for years, knew that starting this shit would be his ticket to all the right parties, taking all the right pills, meeting all the right people, paying heavenly bills. You only get ONE shot at the brass ring. It's time to make the popcorn . . . :rolleyes:
I certainly did not mean to disparage his awards (especially purple heart & CIB). If anything I said was taken that way - please accept my sincerest apology.
Trapper John out!
Yeah, I know that. Sorry for taking that shot at you. More for public consumption than anything.... oh, and I was drinking. :lifter
Remington Raidr
11-25-2019, 04:27
oh, and I was drinking. :lifter
the last refuge of scoundrels!:D
Badger52
11-25-2019, 06:39
At one point all on the NSC together: Vindman, some of Schiff's staffers (Misko & Grace, sounds like a comedy duo), and the alleged whistleblower Ciaramella, who was fired from the NSC for leaking & went back to the CIA. I think Vindman is the leaker to CIAamella who runs to old pals in Schiff's office.
In their mind, Trump's crime is exercising his actual portfolio in terms of foreign policy & talking with other heads of state and NOT doing everything they say since they know best. Their arrogance produces a 'crime' where there isn't. And Vindman seems to have forgotten where his first loyalty needs to lie. Among the other Foggy Bottom types, as far as Schiff is concerned, a presumption is sufficient & the requirement to cite a violated statute is just a pesky detail to be dispensed with.
No popcorn for me, I want to be clear-eyed when the reckoning comes. (I keep tellin' folks, tiger stripes & helicopter rides are gonna come back in style, y'all wait...)
Trapper John
11-25-2019, 07:52
Yeah, I know that. Sorry for taking that shot at you. More for public consumption than anything.... oh, and I was drinking. :lifter
I didn't take it personally, my apology was for public consumption too in case some didn't understand. I don't get butt hurt anyway. :D
Trapper John
11-25-2019, 08:03
Vindman, laboring in the trenches for years, knew that starting this shit would be his ticket to all the right parties, taking all the right pills, meeting all the right people, paying heavenly bills. You only get ONE shot at the brass ring. It's time to make the popcorn . . . :rolleyes:
You may be correct. That line of thinking leads directly to Vindman as the Whistle-blower? ;)
Trapper John
11-25-2019, 08:08
At one point all on the NSC together: Vindman, some of Schiff's staffers (Misko & Grace, sounds like a comedy duo), and the alleged whistleblower Ciaramella, who was fired from the NSC for leaking & went back to the CIA. I think Vindman is the leaker to CIAamella who runs to old pals in Schiff's office.
In their mind, Trump's crime is exercising his actual portfolio in terms of foreign policy & talking with other heads of state and NOT doing everything they say since they know best. Their arrogance produces a 'crime' where there isn't. And Vindman seems to have forgotten where his first loyalty needs to lie. Among the other Foggy Bottom types, as far as Schiff is concerned, a presumption is sufficient & the requirement to cite a violated statute is just a pesky detail to be dispensed with.
No popcorn for me, I want to be clear-eyed when the reckoning comes. (I keep tellin' folks, tiger stripes & helicopter rides are gonna come back in style, y'all wait...)
:lifter
Old Dog New Trick
11-25-2019, 08:29
My opine, all roads lead to Brennan, Clapper, Comey and Clinton, and maybe that other figure head that talked a lot in front of a teleprompter and played golf. Schiff is just an ignorant pawn in this game and Nancy has been corrupted because of her onset of dementia and Chuck because of money.
All these little people were put into place by the people listed above as moles and spies. As Taylor Caldwell said in a Pillar of Lies...”A Nation can survive its fools, but...
From the beginning the Dims and progressive leftists have tried to make the means justify the end. To right a wrong in their eyes. Their candidate lost and therefore the election of DJT is and has to be voided at all cost and damn the nation, the Constitution, and the rule of law in the process.
I suspect many if not every high level military promotion from 2008-2016 and maybe even before then was selected and approved based on a phone call from the Oval Office or one near by. Same thing happened at DoS and DoD/CJCS. Just look how easy it was for Rice, Lynch, McCabe and others to toe the line and say all the right words to support their puppet; the Generals to support turning the military pink and rainbow during war. The thought police have incarcerated or attempted to bribe every campaign supporter to DJT and yet Huma Abedin and Hillary’s staff roam free from the greatest intelligence leak since Robert Hanssen.
Every person from State who testified this past week including Vindman and others at NSC are all the enemy within the gate. Their oath and loyalty to the country mean nothing to them if bringing down DJT is accomplished and he’s not re-elected before RBG croaks.
Remember - Orange Man Bad, anything he does and every word is to be challenged and mocked...covfefe!
Trapper John
11-25-2019, 10:34
ODNT, It is truly scary how much and how often we think alike!:eek:
bblhead672
11-27-2019, 11:42
Vindman Discredits His Service And Uniform With Partisan Testimony (https://townhall.com/columnists/ltgeneral(ret)jerryboykin/2019/11/27/vindman-discredits-his-service-and-uniform-with-partisan-testimony-n2557145)
Lt. General (Ret.) Jerry Boykin weighs in.
It was an appalling misuse of a military uniform, a discredit to the image of the U.S. Army, and a degrading slap to the men and women who serve our nation. National Security Council European Affairs Director Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman recently appeared in his uniform before the House Intelligence Committee demanding to be referred to by his rank, Lieutenant Colonel. Vindman alleged President Trump’s July phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky was “inappropriate.” What was astonishingly inappropriate was Vindman’s failure to use appropriate military regulations and long-standing protocol to render a complaint against the commander in chief.
All branches of the military have an established chain of command. If Vindman had an actual, valid concern regarding the president’s conversation with Zelensky, he should have followed protocol, talked to his superiors or requested an inspector-general investigation into the phone call—not buddy-up with partisan attorneys who carefully coached him and supplied him with talking points for his testimony.
Trapper John
11-28-2019, 07:48
Vindman Discredits His Service And Uniform With Partisan Testimony (https://townhall.com/columnists/ltgeneral(ret)jerryboykin/2019/11/27/vindman-discredits-his-service-and-uniform-with-partisan-testimony-n2557145)
Lt. General (Ret.) Jerry Boykin weighs in.
:lifter Thank you sir! Salute
Golf1echo
09-12-2020, 12:52
A brief back after the dust settles:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/08/vindman-not-whistleblower-was-driving-force-behind-impeachment/
Its looks like that guy has a nice six-figure salary in his future...