View Full Version : Watch the hand gestures guys
mojaveman
08-31-2019, 01:16
A Pennsylvania court ruled Tuesday that making a "gunlike hand gesture" is a crime after a man made the hand motion during an argument with his neighbor - an act which made several nearby residents nervous and prompted a call to the police.
Ridiculous. I would have expected something like this in Kalifornia but not Pennsylvania.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pennsylvania-gun-like-hand-gesture-crime
miclo18d
08-31-2019, 06:16
I saw this article....I’d personally be headed to the USSC on this one...this is a dangerous precedent of free speech becoming violent speech.
Generally the assault is charged when a viable threat is conveyed, i.e. you point an actual gun at the neighbor and say, “I’ll kill you!”
Assault
At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.
An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.
Statutory definitions of assault in the various jurisdictions throughout the United States are not substantially different from the common-law definition.
Elements
Generally, the essential elements of assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim.
The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.Intent is an essential element of assault.
In tort law, it can be specific intent—if the assailant intends to cause the apprehension of harmful or offensive contact in the victim—or general intent—if he or she intends to do the act that causes such apprehension. In addition, the intent element is satisfied if it is substantially certain, to a reasonable person, that the act will cause the result. A defendant who holds a gun to a victim's head possesses the requisite intent, since it is substantially certain that this act will produce an apprehension in the victim. In all cases, intent to kill or harm is irrelevant.
In criminal law, the attempted battery type of assault requires a Specific Intent to commit battery. An intent to frighten will not suffice for this form of assault.
There can be no assault if the act does not produce a true apprehension of harm in the victim. There must be a reasonable fear of injury. The usual test applied is whether the act would induce such apprehension in the mind of a reasonable person. The status of the victim is taken into account. A threat made to a child might be sufficient to constitute an assault, while an identical threat made to an adult might not.
Virtually all jurisdictions agree that the victim must be aware of the danger. This element is not required, however, for the attempted battery type of assault. A defendant who throws a rock at a sleeping victim can only be guilty of the attempted battery assault, since the victim would not be aware of the possible harm.
Aggravated Assault
An aggravated assault, punishable in all states as a felony, is committed when a defendant intends to do more than merely frighten the victim. Common types of aggravated assaults are those accompanied by an intent to kill, rob, or rape. An assault with a dangerous weapon is aggravated if there is an intent to cause serious harm. Pointing an unloaded gun at a victim to frighten the individual is not considered an aggravated assault.
The conviction offense was "Disorderly Conduct" and that can encompass a multitude of sins. It was specifically NOT an "assault" as that would require an "offer of violence."
miclo18d
09-01-2019, 05:32
PA statute on DC - basically the guy got a ticket for pissing off his neighbors
Still very subjective and borders on violation of free speech
§ 5503. Disorderly conduct.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.
(b) Grading.--An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense.
(c) Definition.--As used in this section the word "public" means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public.
Cross References. Section 5503 is referred to in section 3019 of this title; section 12432 of Title 11 (Cities); sections 3573, 6328, 8902 of Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure).
Best I could find fro history of DC charges was they were enacted in the mid 1800s to quell street brawls between immigrants and natives...
Why don’t they just charge the neighbor with a Patriot Act crime while they’re at it?
Gotta love how laws start to over reach from their original intent.
Does obscene gesture include wearing a giant vagina hat?
Asking for a friend...
Does obscene gesture include wearing a giant vagina hat?
Asking for a friend...
No, you, uh your friend, can still sport your, uh his/her, vagina hat. Just don’t flash any pointy gun gang signs. :D
rsdengler
09-03-2019, 13:45
Does obscene gesture include wearing a giant vagina hat?
Asking for a friend...
Well, it could be considered a "obscene gesture". It could very well be telling someone to "Lick Me"....is that obscene, sort of like a middle finger gesture? Not sure.....LOL...:p
Sorry, I just had to say it......
miclo18d
09-04-2019, 05:25
But the point is succinct...
Who defines obscene?
I am daily offended by SJWs and their mockery of ‘murican values! Where’s my day in court?
— anything with Che on it that isn’t a pic of his corpse
— anything with a piercing other than on the ears
— facial tats
— mention of anything ‘orange man bad’
— any mention of restrictions on any of my ‘civil liberties’ (aka bill of rights)
— my fingers are starting to hurt
But the point is succinct...
Who defines obscene?
I am daily offended by SJWs and their mockery of ‘murican values! Where’s my day in court?
— anything with Che on it that isn’t a pic of his corpse
— anything with a piercing other than on the ears
— facial tats
— mention of anything ‘orange man bad’
— any mention of restrictions on any of my ‘civil liberties’ (aka bill of rights)
— my fingers are starting to hurt
The left decides what is obscene - haven't you been paying attention?
-Mapplethorpe's bullwhip picture -NOT obscene
-sodomizing a government clerk with a cigar - NOT obscene
-a picture of a crucifix in a jar of urine - NOT obscene
-kathy griffins severed head stunt - NOT obscene
-a giant vagina hat - NOT obscene
-ANY red hat when worn by someone that might be a conservative or republican - obscene
-YOUR guns - obscene
-the American flag when displayed in public - obscene
-a nativity scene in a public park on Christmas Eve - obscene
You need to pay attention my friend - you are missing a LOT of plot points in this current story that is America
Reminds me of the time I scratched my ear with my middle finger while passing one of my political enemies on the road in our respective vehicles. Had the PA State Police on my door step a couple of hours later.
After an explanation of events (township politics) leading up to the incident, the Copper rolled his eyes and said "Please don't do it again!!" Naturally, I promised to be a good boy (which I honored) and apologized on behalf of my "opponent" for wasting his time.
I promptly told the story to all and sundry who all got a good laugh at my "friend's" expense. :p
On a more serious note, a gun image in this day and age IS a little more serious considering how things are getting more unhinged. I suspect the Coppers want to send a signal considering the press on it, especially leading up to the National election. It's gonna get worse before it gets better.
The left decides what is obscene - haven't you been paying attention?
-Mapplethorpe's bullwhip picture -NOT obscene
-sodomizing a government clerk with a cigar - NOT obscene
-a picture of a crucifix in a jar of urine - NOT obscene
-kathy griffins severed head stunt - NOT obscene
-a giant vagina hat - NOT obscene
-ANY red hat when worn by someone that might be a conservative or republican - obscene
-YOUR guns - obscene
-the American flag when displayed in public - obscene
-a nativity scene in a public park on Christmas Eve - obscene
These simple examples capture the essence of the cultural divide.
Unfortunately, it will get worse before it gets better.
— anything with Che on it that isn’t a pic of his corpse
I've got that covered: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=632807&postcount=73
1stindoor
09-05-2019, 06:40
How soon we forget...
http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42302&highlight=gun+shape
cat in the hat
09-05-2019, 20:29
Well, it could be considered a "obscene gesture". It could very well be telling someone to "Lick Me"....is that obscene, sort of like a middle finger gesture? Not sure.....LOL...:p
Sorry, I just had to say it......
Glad you did Ma'am.
miclo18d
09-06-2019, 02:54
I've got that covered: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=632807&postcount=73
(Well aware...that is my form of sarcasm)
Utah Bob
09-17-2019, 17:48
You can still say “Pew” I think.
But not “Pew Pew Pew”