View Full Version : SEAL Admiral tightens the standards...
Basenshukai
08-24-2019, 17:47
We shall see how this works out.
But, it's back to haircuts, uniforms, equipment accountability and now E7 and above UCMJ authority goes automatically to the Naval Special Warfare Commander.
All Hands Memo from the NSW CDR (http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/08/23/radm.green.guidance.directive.pdf)
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!”
As much as we all hate to admit it, when we (SF) have to wear Army uniforms and have Army hair-cuts, it keeps us grounded in the “Army ways” of doing things. Second order effects are it helps get rid of the folks that are sticking around / joined for the wrong reasons...... “what do ya mean I can’t wear my team hat and beard to the shopette on my way to the range on my ATV!?!?!”
Just my .02, this is the first positive thing the SEALs have done in a while.....
“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!”
As much as we all hate to admit it, when we (SF) have to wear Army uniforms and have Army hair-cuts, it keeps us grounded in the “Army ways” of doing things. Second order effects are it help get rid of the folks that are sticking around / joined for the wrong reasons...... “what do ya mean I can’t wear my team hat and beard to the shopette on my way to the range on my ATV!?!?!”
Just my .02, this is the first positive thing the SEALs have done in a while.....
I would agree. Gotta have rules. Also, gotta have people that want/tend to break them if you ever want to have 'out of the box' thinkers capable of independent action.
Time for a reset on the rules. Re-establish them. So that eventually we reset the rule breakers.
Edit: I liked that memo/directive.
Hope they can correct their course......
Wonder when the USASOC memo will come out?
Basenshukai
08-24-2019, 22:02
Wonder when the USASOC memo will come out?
I was thinking the same thing.
The USASOC Good Idea Fairy is reaching down to pull his rechargeable wand out of the wall socket as we speak.
WarriorDiplomat
08-25-2019, 09:39
The real question should not be when but why haven't they yet? just because all the debauchery is not making the national news doesn't mean we don't have the same issues
The real question should not be when but why haven't they yet? just because all the debauchery is not making the national news doesn't mean we don't have the same issues
Totally agree....
Peregrino
08-25-2019, 14:37
FWIW, B3 sent his memo too. It wasn't as "bring the hammer down" as the Admiral's but it was still directive. Some of the requirements in the Admiral's memo have already been in place in USASOC for months; ethics review/training, and reporting of same being the two biggies. That said, most of the push seems to be coming from SOCOM and the SEALs are bearing the brunt because their peccadilloes are the ones making national news (this time!).
1stindoor
08-26-2019, 07:03
Also, gotta have people that want/tend to break them if you ever want to have 'out of the box' thinkers capable of independent action.
Haven broken several of the "rules" myself as a young lad I agree. However, the problem with a lot of today's "out of the box" thinkers...is that they were never trained to know what was in the box. We have a complete generation that has never served in the conventional Army, so all they know is baseball caps and beards.
I was thinking the same thing.
Well, they can always recall "Sudden Death" Suddeth...:rolleyes:
However, most youngsters have no idea what that means...
Haven broken several of the "rules" myself as a young lad I agree. However, the problem with a lot of today's "out of the box" thinkers...is that they were never trained to know what was in the box. We have a complete generation that has never served in the conventional Army, so all they know is baseball caps and beards.
100% agree.
It gets even more sobering when you start thinking about how the conventional Army isn't the conventional Army of just 30yrs ago....so even if you reset and get a common understanding of "the box" ... that box is going to be a whole lot bigger than it was before.
mojaveman
08-26-2019, 12:30
…it's back to haircuts, uniforms, equipment accountability...
On the first day of the SFQC in '84 we had several long haired SEALS show up to morning formation wearing tank tops, Ray-Ban sunglasses, OP shorts and Vans sneakers.
I formed my first opinion of them way back then.
Hair Gel stocks are going to take a hit................
1stindoor
08-27-2019, 06:18
Hair Gel stocks are going to take a hit................
Naah...old Dive Team guys will pick up the slack.
Well, they can always recall "Sudden Death" Suddeth...:rolleyes:
However, most youngsters have no idea what that means...
Damn. You just gave me a shiver..... haven’t thought about him in a long time....
Damn. You just gave me a shiver..... haven’t thought about him in a long time....
Haa, sorry 'bout that..
Luckily I was in O&I when he had all those inspections. Missed all the fun...or NOT
"I'm here to clean SF up"...wow
....
Luckily I was in O&I when he had all those inspections. Missed all the fun...or NOT
"I'm here to clean SF up"...wow
While some of the shit he did was off the planet the inspections were not all that bad.
If it was Class A's then all you had to do was make sure it looked pressed, put everything on right, get a hair cut and shine your boots. But then again, some SF guys found that to be too difficult.
While some of the shit he did was off the planet the inspections were not all that bad.
If it was Class A's then all you had to do was make sure it looked pressed, put everything on right, get a hair cut and shine your boots. But then again, some SF guys found that to be too difficult.
I agree Pete, but some folks were getting out of hand. It was an "eye opener" to quite a few folks...
I heard stories of him sending folks to the rear of formation. But, they brought it upon themselves..
While some of the shit he did was off the planet the inspections were not all that bad.
If it was Class A's then all you had to do was make sure it looked pressed, put everything on right, get a hair cut and shine your boots. But then again, some SF guys found that to be too difficult.
I remember some people making it harder than it was. He hardly noticed most people but there was always guys that brought it upon himself. You usually knew who was going to the back as you formed......
The Reaper
08-28-2019, 10:58
I was in one of his in-ranks Class A inspections and the Major standing next to me had on, I kid you not, greasy-looking, bloused combat boots.
Suddath looked the Major up and down and asked him if he usually wore his field boots to a Class A command inspection.
He also invited him to come by his office after the inspection for some career guidance.
TR
Please explain what is grounded mean. I agree with what Bill Moore posted on Linkedin on how this contributes to the conventionalization of the Force which is never a good thing.
If haircuts and uniformity are so important to keeping discipline in a unit than we are selecting the wrong people for our Force.
I thought we were above that in self-discipline to think that a haircut makes you more disciplined and better at your job.
The SAB should give us some good competition with this thought process.
It’s not about the “what” with regard to uniforms and haircuts and all about understanding your operational environment / blending in with the locals. Camouflage doesn’t mean wearing ghillie suits and painting your face, it means looking like your surroundings. If you are a soldier (and all SF are), then when you are going to be around other soldiers, look like one instead of drawing fire on you and your unit. We (CMF 18) already have a distinctive hat to say we’re special, why wear a ball-cap and Asolo boots to the shopette knowing that the Group CSM is gonna get a call about “those fucking team-guys” from the 3rd BDE CSM? If a team guy can’t understand we are supposed to blend in, not stand out, then he just doesn’t quite get “it”.......
That being said, we have special uniforms (PCU) and operational requirements to wear specialized gear when training, so wear that stuff at the range. Wear it on Jumps and when helo-casting, not to conduct coordinations with the leg unit on your post.
mojaveman
08-28-2019, 14:42
Well, they can always recall "Sudden Death" Suddeth...:rolleyes:
However, most youngsters have no idea what that means...
Agree about Suddeth but a verbal reprimand about grooming standards issued by CSM Foreman could lead to PTSD. :D
"Grounded" is acknowledging that the phrase "Relaxed Grooming Standards" does in fact contain the word "standards"
It doesnt mean you can die your beard with stripes of white and henna
It doesnt mean you can let it grow wilder and woollier that the wildest Afghan elder
It doesnt mean you can sport a pony tail
Give an inch - someone WILL take a yard.
Give an SF guy a rope - and sure as the sun rises in the east - he'll think he is Will Rogers.
Uniformity and discipline are much more than just mindless tools of discipline. SF is all about the team NOT the individual - those that want to be individuals should have joined one of our sister services and been SOF somewhere else. I for one think a collective need for uniformity and discipline serve a critical role in our ultimate success.
Uniformity is how I find something in YOUR rucksack in the pitch dark when shit hits the fan.
Discipline is making sure that your RON site is secure with a good plan before people start pulling out their sleeping gear - even though everyone is dog tired.
There is WAAAAAAY more to uniformity and discipline than just the SGM yelling at folks about haircuts.
Haircuts are just one of those places that standards of appearance take root.
Next thing you know the "its just a haircut" attitude turns into "its just a haircut and a pair of civilian boots" attitude which turns into a "why are you fucking with me" attitude
...before long - its just a 90,000 embezzlement scam - and you're sneaking cocaine home in punching bags, and murdering fellow troops because you feel snubbed
Basic standards are the building blocks for ALL of the trust and confidence that the nation places in "SOF"
...and "WE" have collectively squandered that trust.
It is only my opinion but SF is NEVER...
...EVER
...EVER-EVER-EVER
above the concept of self-discipline - in fact - NEVER EVER needing to be told that you need a haircut or some other "petty" correction is EXACTLY one of the things that demonstrates the type of discipline indicative of a better" soldier.
The innate ability to know "when" to act is every bit as important as knowing "how" to act.
and "why"
THAT is why the SEALs are in so much hot water right now.
WarriorDiplomat
08-28-2019, 16:50
"Grounded" is acknowledging that the phrase "Relaxed Grooming Standards" does in fact contain the word "standards"
It doesnt mean you can die your beard with stripes of white and henna
It doesnt mean you can let it grow wilder and woollier that the wildest Afghan elder
It doesnt mean you can sport a pony tail
Give an inch - someone WILL take a yard.
Give an SF guy a rope - and sure as the sun rises in the east - he'll think he is Will Rogers.
Uniformity and discipline are much more than just mindless tools of discipline. SF is all about the team NOT the individual - those that want to be individuals should have joined one of our sister services and been SOF somewhere else. I for one think a collective need for uniformity and discipline serve a critical role in our ultimate success.
Uniformity is how I find something in YOUR rucksack in the pitch dark when shit hits the fan.
Discipline is making sure that your RON site is secure with a good plan before people start pulling out their sleeping gear - even though everyone is dog tired.
There is WAAAAAAY more to uniformity and discipline than just the SGM yelling at folks about haircuts.
Haircuts are just one of those places that standards of appearance take root.
Next thing you know the "its just a haircut" attitude turns into "its just a haircut and a pair of civilian boots" attitude which turns into a "why are you fucking with me" attitude
...before long - its just a 90,000 embezzlement scam - and you're sneaking cocaine home in punching bags, and murdering fellow troops because you feel snubbed
Basic standards are the building blocks for ALL of the trust and confidence that the nation places in "SOF"
...and "WE" have collectively squandered that trust.
It is only my opinion but SF is NEVER...
...EVER
...EVER-EVER-EVER
above the concept of self-discipline - in fact - NEVER EVER needing to be told that you need a haircut or some other "petty" correction is EXACTLY one of the things that demonstrates the type of discipline indicative of a better" soldier.
The innate ability to know "when" to act is every bit as important as knowing "how" to act.
and "why"
THAT is why the SEALs are in so much hot water right now.
Absolutely right!
miclo18d
08-29-2019, 05:12
"Grounded" is acknowledging that the phrase "Relaxed Grooming Standards" does in fact contain the word "standards"
It doesnt mean you can die your beard with stripes of white and henna
It doesnt mean you can let it grow wilder and woollier that the wildest Afghan elder
It doesnt mean you can sport a pony tail
Give an inch - someone WILL take a yard.
Give an SF guy a rope - and sure as the sun rises in the east - he'll think he is Will Rogers.
Uniformity and discipline are much more than just mindless tools of discipline. SF is all about the team NOT the individual - those that want to be individuals should have joined one of our sister services and been SOF somewhere else. I for one think a collective need for uniformity and discipline serve a critical role in our ultimate success.
Uniformity is how I find something in YOUR rucksack in the pitch dark when shit hits the fan.
Discipline is making sure that your RON site is secure with a good plan before people start pulling out their sleeping gear - even though everyone is dog tired.
There is WAAAAAAY more to uniformity and discipline than just the SGM yelling at folks about haircuts.
Haircuts are just one of those places that standards of appearance take root.
Next thing you know the "its just a haircut" attitude turns into "its just a haircut and a pair of civilian boots" attitude which turns into a "why are you fucking with me" attitude
...before long - its just a 90,000 embezzlement scam - and you're sneaking cocaine home in punching bags, and murdering fellow troops because you feel snubbed
Basic standards are the building blocks for ALL of the trust and confidence that the nation places in "SOF"
...and "WE" have collectively squandered that trust.
It is only my opinion but SF is NEVER...
...EVER
...EVER-EVER-EVER
above the concept of self-discipline - in fact - NEVER EVER needing to be told that you need a haircut or some other "petty" correction is EXACTLY one of the things that demonstrates the type of discipline indicative of a better" soldier.
The innate ability to know "when" to act is every bit as important as knowing "how" to act.
and "why"
THAT is why the SEALs are in so much hot water right now.
Spot on....just not enough sarcasm for me...where’s your discipline Billy?
Not enough sarcasm?
...do you REALLY think I am going to go digging around another mans ruck in the middle of the night? That is how people get shot.
Please for the love of basketball - don't do that - someone WILL get hurt.
It was JUST an example.
1stindoor
08-29-2019, 06:53
^^^There it is....whew! I was getting worried there; I read half-way through the rant and then it hit me, "no sarcasm,"...and I was temporarily concerned about his mental well-being.
Trapper John
08-29-2019, 07:28
"Grounded" is acknowledging that the phrase "Relaxed Grooming Standards" does in fact contain the word "standards"
It doesnt mean you can die your beard with stripes of white and henna
It doesnt mean you can let it grow wilder and woollier that the wildest Afghan elder
It doesnt mean you can sport a pony tail
Give an inch - someone WILL take a yard.
Give an SF guy a rope - and sure as the sun rises in the east - he'll think he is Will Rogers.
Uniformity and discipline are much more than just mindless tools of discipline. SF is all about the team NOT the individual - those that want to be individuals should have joined one of our sister services and been SOF somewhere else. I for one think a collective need for uniformity and discipline serve a critical role in our ultimate success.
Uniformity is how I find something in YOUR rucksack in the pitch dark when shit hits the fan.
Discipline is making sure that your RON site is secure with a good plan before people start pulling out their sleeping gear - even though everyone is dog tired.
There is WAAAAAAY more to uniformity and discipline than just the SGM yelling at folks about haircuts.
Haircuts are just one of those places that standards of appearance take root.
Next thing you know the "its just a haircut" attitude turns into "its just a haircut and a pair of civilian boots" attitude which turns into a "why are you fucking with me" attitude
...before long - its just a 90,000 embezzlement scam - and you're sneaking cocaine home in punching bags, and murdering fellow troops because you feel snubbed
Basic standards are the building blocks for ALL of the trust and confidence that the nation places in "SOF"
...and "WE" have collectively squandered that trust.
It is only my opinion but SF is NEVER...
...EVER
...EVER-EVER-EVER
above the concept of self-discipline - in fact - NEVER EVER needing to be told that you need a haircut or some other "petty" correction is EXACTLY one of the things that demonstrates the type of discipline indicative of a better" soldier.
The innate ability to know "when" to act is every bit as important as knowing "how" to act.
and "why"
THAT is why the SEALs are in so much hot water right now.
:lifter I can't tell you how much this VFOG is relieved to read that from one of my Brothers on this forum!
Salute!
There's hope for the Regiment yet!
Old Dog New Trick
08-30-2019, 08:59
As with what Box said; I always believed and thought the only individual quality needed to survive and support the Team was - RESPONSIBLY! It goes right along with INTEGRITY!
Also, there are just some rucksacks that I will not stick my hand in at night in the dark. Goes with “if it’s wet, sticky or slimy and not mine, don’t touch it!” :p (Bullets, demo, batteries and IV fluid had better be in an approved SOP location and a pouch. ;) )
I for one am glad someone (obviously not ADM McRaven) is tightening the noose on SEALs asshatery and anything goes attention seeking behavior. They really must be schooled that Richard Marcinko really is a “Dick” and a convicted criminal - defrauding the government - must be a trait!