View Full Version : 18X/REP-63 After Master's?
crocteeth93
07-30-2019, 15:38
Good afternoon everybody. Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.
I'm about to graduate with my master's at a tier-1 university out here in Massachusetts (around December-time). The career field that I will be in can wait (privileged & grateful to graduate from this program) but IMHO it's now-or-never when it comes to me joining the military—specifically, trying out for SF. I'm considering enlisting in the NG with a REP-63 contract. I have zero interest in becoming an officer.
Not saying I'd make it through the entire pipeline but before I pull the trigger on joining & shipping to OSUT, I've got some moral considerations I'd appreciate answers to..
Informed answers would be appreciated! Though I'm majoring in something history/governance-related, I obviously don't have the practical knowledge, the experiences, or the day-to-day praxis to answer them wholly or informatively.
My intent with these questions come from introspection & whether or not I'd be doing the right thing (or on the track to doing the "right" thing). Here goes:
>I've interned during my undergrad years for a CEO who was a Army SpecOps officer.. he cherished the connections he's made through his time in but, in his words, "absolutely regrets" a lot of what he was forced to choose between when he was deployed in combat zones. My question: is US foreign policy today really about De Oppresso Liber? I absolutely admire this noble mentality: to free the oppressed. To protect those who cannot protect themselves. Stand up to the bullies. But is that what I/we'd be doing downrange?
>Individual soldier vs chain of command: how much control does one have between agency vs institution on a day-to-day basis? Let's say one was given an unconstitutional order on a fire mission to clear out a civilian Afghan village on faulty intel.. what'd be the the right thing to do and the practical scenario here?
>Will I/we be on the right side of history? e.g. Pentagon Papers.. regime change in Latin America in the the name of corporate interests.. Eisenhower's military-industrial complex warning.. etc. This is what makes me hesitate the most. But if this concern is assuaged, I'd believe much more strongly in joining.
Selfish reasons for wanting to join:
>Part of a brotherhood, that camaraderie—doing those special things with those special people within the purview of a greater mission of serving; make peace first, try peace second, door-kick if absolutely necessary is what attracts me to Army SF
>Serving the spirit of America
>Tuition assistance for an MBA
>Applied for a Naval ROTC scholarship straight out of high school, failed.. motivation re-surfacing through my studies.. it's now or never
Your input is appreciated! Anything else related to these matters is appreciated. Thank you.
EDIT: Spacing & grammar.
Astronomy
07-30-2019, 21:23
Speaking bluntly...
If you can't already look deep into the core of your being & find the answers to your own questions...you are definitely not cut out for this line of work.
You seem unduly worried about the opinions of others (both present day & future). You're supposed to possess your own beliefs by this stage in your life. Ones you can abide by, act upon, and live with. Be your own Man. The opinions of others matter little in the grand scheme of things.
History and geopolitics is a little messy. There are the stories written by the Victors, the ones written by the Losers, and the Truth found somewhere in-between. If you require clear delineations to set azimuths on your moral compass... the lifestyle is probably not your cup of tea. The real world of international affairs & human conflict is complicated and unjust. There are few good guys... on any side. For thousands of years it's been that way. As an SF Soldier, to achieve your far flung purposes, you must remain flexible... like Gumby's dick on a hot afternoon. It's mostly just business. When in doubt... American interests come first. That's not reflexive jingoism... just pragmatism hard at work.
Moral dilemmas? Yeah, you'll occasionally encounter those. Figure them out and stand by your actions. Hint: Do The Right Thing whenever possible. Have a Plan B when it ain't.
SF Life is not for the faint of heart, the overly sensitive, or those uncertain of their purpose in life.
You are
What you do
When it counts
-The Masao
crocteeth93
07-31-2019, 01:47
Astronomy,
Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
"If you can't already look deep into the core of your being & find the answers to your own questions...you are definitely not cut out for this line of work."
Sorry if I didn't make this clear in my post.. I've just begun considering this life route and as a wise man once said: knowledge speaks, wisdom listens. Trying my best to listen rather speak. Again, most of these questions I've not thought about nor considered--would rather consider experienced input, like yours, than my own since I could be very wrong about aforestated route.
"You seem unduly worried about the opinions of others (both present day & future). You're supposed to possess your own beliefs by this stage in your life. Ones you can abide by, act upon, and live with. Be your own Man. The opinions of others matter little in the grand scheme of things."
Again, not the case.. but I think this is mis-communication in work.
Sincerely appreciate the rest of your post, particularly what you've cut out to be the SF archetype. Information I wouldn't have had had I not posted here!
Astronomy
07-31-2019, 11:36
You're welcome.
SF operational environments are frequently murky & conflicted. If you aren't comfortable swimming in that kind of world, don't get in the water.
If you entertain personal doubts or moral qualms... you will not succeed at this endeavor.
crocteeth93
07-31-2019, 11:48
Astronomy,
Again, thank you for your input. Understood.
TrapperFrank
08-01-2019, 01:17
Sir, with all due respect, you think too God damn much.
crocteeth93
08-01-2019, 09:03
TrapperFrank,
Hah. Think like men of action and act like men of thought, no? ;)
Appreciate your perspective though, no matter how minor it is.
Astronomy
08-01-2019, 11:16
Appreciate your perspective though, no matter how minor it is.
Perhaps you have a need to get in the conversational last word, perhaps you think this is a place for repartee, or perhaps you think the QPs commenting here want to be your buddies...
None of that is appropriate or true. I took your last comment as a pointed barb. I imagine my esteemed GB colleague did too. (BTW: He just gave you solid & valuable advice.)
On Teams, you'll encounter people with degrees & intellect easily more impressive than your own. Count on it.
A simple "Thanks" (without editorial commentary) was the appropriate response. Words matter. In your case...use fewer of them.
Otherwise, I predict that you're going to find yourself bounced out of here very swiftly.
crocteeth93
08-01-2019, 11:32
Astronomy,
Again, you're mis-interpreting my intentions.
TrapperFrank,
I am sorry if my adverb use of "minor" offends you.
Astronomy,
Speaking bluntly..
I don't know you, aside from your qualifications, and you barely know me (nor my qualifications).. you taking my last comment as "pointed barb" is you being overly sensitive (I also predict that this statement will have you fuming--and yes, this is a "pointed barb"). From an anecdotal standpoint, you remind me (and that SpecOps CEO, who's done equally impressive things as you have) strikingly of an SF Major we had the displeasure of running into together--one of the stark traits being his hatred of "snowflakes" while exemplifying over-sensitivity to his ego himself.
Lead with your ego and let the bullshit roll, 'rah?
"you'll encounter people with degrees & intellect easily more impressive than your own. Count on it."
> I hope their intellects accumulate to more than yours. As I'm counting on it.
I'm actually a former 0331 (post-9/11), honorably discharged.. and somebody who just has happened to reflect upon my time post-service. Yeah, most of my first post is a lie but the considerations remain. Frankly, your type of over-sensitivity with respect to your ego is the reason I, and many others 03xx, EAS'd. I'm sure your brothers on here are willing to stick up for you, as my brothers are for me..
For somebody who finds over-sensitivity a trait unsuitable and insufferable for SF, it's ironic that post-service you've become its epitome.
Bounce me "out of here" quickly if one man's mis-interpretation of a |INTERNET FORUM COMMENT| is all it takes...
Though I sincerely appreciated some of your initial comments, it's incredibly bizarre how emotionally reactive you are to a stranger's comments online. Retirement affects all differently, I guess.
Astronomy
08-01-2019, 14:08
Yeah, most of my first post is a lie...
Amazingly stupid admission. Not only poor SA, but no integrity. This sub-forum isn't fucking Twitter.
Among other things, it's for questions from people earnestly considering accession into SF.
You aren't. You never will.
1stindoor
08-01-2019, 14:30
.... Yeah, most of my first post is a lie ...
:munchin
Gotta' get a few digs in every time he posts now.
You guys have a lot more patience than I do.
Astronomy
08-01-2019, 18:34
Just another troll flapping his cock-holster. Unremarkable and ignorable. We see them here from time to time. Briefly.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda... but never will.
Free advice for folks actually contemplating a SOF career: Your social media/internet posts live forever. Army SF (and US SOF in general) is a small world. An interconnected world of people who've known one another for years. The internet shots you take in supposed anonymity will come back to haunt you. Because you never know who's already read them... or will read them.
Maybe someone tasked with reviewing your future Selection packet... or Security Clearance. Or your future Team Sergeant. Or SGM/CSM. Like I mentioned... It's a Small World. Not the Walt Disney one.
As always, honest inquiries get answered in a similar manner by the QPs on this forum. If you are serious about trying on the Job, folks here will attempt to help you navigate that path.
If not, don't waste your time. Or ours. Instead, go hang out at other forums. Places where folks who never served a day in Army Special Forces... will gladly tell you all about it. :rolleyes:
HardRoad
08-01-2019, 18:59
Guy's such an arrogant jackass he managed to get banned in 6 posts and 4 days. That must be some kind of record . . .
Astronomy
08-01-2019, 19:38
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1K7rdYYLkQC5BEU06dkOJRc0okVkIO 34bm6s_D1FNksAfIXQqew
He never even heard it on short final...
I Love Happy Endings.
Guy's such an arrogant jackass he managed to get banned in 6 posts and 4 days. That must be some kind of record . . .
Swerving out of my lane for this: Not even close:
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6172&highlight=banned+record ;)
Guy's such an arrogant jackass he managed to get banned in 6 posts and 4 days. That must be some kind of record . . .
We have banned people in hours for various reasons..... shit heads are shitheads...
The Reaper
08-02-2019, 17:30
People come in, throw their dick on the table, and get rude with the regulars, what do they think happens?
No SA at all.
This is our house. Those with potential and acceptable behavior are welcome guests. Those who come in looking for a fight can find one.
TR
WarriorDiplomat
09-03-2019, 10:20
Wow just read this thread what a stupid jackass....no we do not need self elevating arrogant a-holes they are the antithesis of TEAM cohesion literally they are proverbial cancer. Also of all the intelligence we seek formally educated is not paramount....I would rather have an intelligent self taught learner without formal indoctrination with common sense and street savvy on a team any day of the week...this makes him valuable by knowing when he is the junior in the situation and a seeker of wisdom and knowledge...please, please, please, don't try to understand how peace is our job....peace is the end state not our job....our job is far too broad and complex covering so many facets of stability which can equal peace but never be naïve to believe that peace is achieved without bloodshed in most circumstances. Sometimes stability can mean that the most stable and powerful entity is in power and as a result everything within its vicinity may be less violent but that entity may just be the most violent of them all......what matters is the stability of the region in geo political matters as well as global economics.
My opinion on overly educated people coming here...no issue just leave your ego at the door and humble yourself there are enlisted that may be much smarter in many ways and don't forget the innate value of experience that leads to wisdom over intellectual horsepower.....the places we go and the things we do far exceeds the depth any university can teach. Many times indigenous people will have very little formal education so what value is formal education when dealing with someone who only speaks from his traditions and 1000 years of tried and true methods? Sometimes the formal education they receive may be of a higher quality and density coupled with experience in real world scenarios that separates the wheat from the chaff of professors academically influenced opinion. Remember academia is the world of proxy information from a perspective that may never apply to anything you experience.
Astronomy
09-03-2019, 14:59
The funny thing was that Schmuckatelli evidently thought his not-yet-completed Masters program would stand out as something unusual in SF circles.
An organization where every entry level enlisted 18 MOS is theoretical commissioning material (in terms of required GT score thresholds for both tracks).
BAs are common as dirt in the 18 MOS Career Field. Down in the trenches, holding a Masters is not unusual at all, whether the holder be commissioned or enlisted. I've known several serving SF NCOs with PhDs or Professional Doctorates. Including an enlisted Reservist M.D.. Also several lawyers (Juris Doctor), and graduate degree holding Civil Engineers, College Professors, Physiologists, Historians, Political Scientists, etc.
The problem with believing that you're the smartest (or most highly educated) person in the room... is that it often ain't so.
The OP was All Talk. No Walk. He won't attempt Selection. Seen that type before. Many times.
Steelcurtain
09-08-2019, 20:02
This thread drew my attention as I am in a similar position as OP concerning formal education.
The farther I dig myself into academia the more I realize many of the individuals standing in front of a classroom teaching theories and application don't actually know how to apply the theories themselves. It surprises me how many people with PhDs have little to no experience working in the field they teach in. Needless to say being book smart only goes so far.
This past year amidst discussion of international human security a question was posed by the professor: If you were given reliable intelligence that a certain person in this room had knowledge of the location of a bomb set to go off in an hour, who all would resort to torture to get information?
Strong emotional intelligence gives us power over morality. In the ambiguous world of conflict, doing the "right" thing has no global consent. As Astronomy mentioned, different versions of history will be broadcast by each group, and even within those groups no two people will feel the exact same about the events they believe transpired. It is all subjective and you can't please everyone.
Those that sleep warm at night beneath blankets of degrees tend to have a self-imposed comprehension of how things should go and tend to think their way out of situations. It's easy to cop out when actions have no consequence.
WarriorDiplomat
09-11-2019, 23:48
The funny thing was that Schmuckatelli evidently thought his not-yet-completed Masters program would stand out as something unusual in SF circles.
An organization where every entry level enlisted 18 MOS is theoretical commissioning material (in terms of required GT score thresholds for both tracks).
BAs are common as dirt in the 18 MOS Career Field. Down in the trenches, holding a Masters is not unusual at all, whether the holder be commissioned or enlisted. I've known several serving SF NCOs with PhDs or Professional Doctorates. Including an enlisted Reservist M.D.. Also several lawyers (Juris Doctor), and graduate degree holding Civil Engineers, College Professors, Physiologists, Historians, Political Scientists, etc.
The problem with believing that you're the smartest (or most highly educated) person in the room... is that it often ain't so.
The OP was All Talk. No Walk. He won't attempt Selection. Seen that type before. Many times.
Yeah that is presumptuous of the nitwit.......off the top of my head just on the NCO side of the house a few guys come to mind a guy with a medical doctor degree from John Hopkins medical school who is a Engineer Sgt, Another guy just retired with a Masters degree in Actuarial Science while serving, Another friend in the National Guard with a JD and a practicing lawyer, my most recent company commander just completed his Phd while serving...I say while serving because of the time, complexity and effort required in everyday SF activities as well as deployments amongst other things that's IMO pretty God Dang impressive specifically the mathematical horsepower needed to succeed in actuarial science and these are only a few of the guys I know or have heard of but there are many many more who just love the job and have turned their backs on their prior endeavors....some of the smartest guys I knew had no college degree just brilliant minded humble men with no academic aspirations
"hey bitches - I got a masters degree"
"hey new guy - shut the fuck up and finish picking up brass"
at least thats how it used to be
"hey bitches - I got a masters degree"
"hey new guy - shut the fuck up and finish picking up brass"
at least thats how it used to be
Oh yeah. And that's how it should be.