View Full Version : Cadre strike back against General lowering standards . . .
Roguish Lawyer
03-11-2019, 12:54
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/11/exclusive-pentagon-investigating-army-two-star-general-for-retaliation-against-green-berets/
:munchin
What a shitshow. Embarrassing.
Basenshukai
03-11-2019, 13:42
I'm so glad I only had to suffer Sonntag for less than a year. I can find a way to get along with almost anyone and I could not stand the guy.
WarriorDiplomat
03-11-2019, 18:35
In addition to his military accolades, Sonntag has Masters Degrees from LouisianaStateUniversity and the NavalWarCollege, and is a Harvard Kennedy School National Security Fellow.
I hope he was released from that.....national security starts with the best quality of people to ca get and train the rest of the platforms are augments
There are some things in life that should never be messed with. The standards to become a Special Forces soldier is at the top as far as I am concerned. The Army I enlisted in was not the one my father enlisted in 22 years before me. I know that some things are going to evolve but I sure as hell do not recognize what has happened to the ranks of the Combat Arms. The military is not a proving ground for social engineering. This sickens me and I can only imagine what it does to those of you who earned your Tab. There has to be a tipping point and I have to believe we are getting dangerously close to it.
Ret10Echo
03-11-2019, 20:04
Good
I've worked with some outstanding officers who I am very happy to see have risen through the ranks into positions of importance. The common denominator on these men is that they have maintained the respect of their senior enlisted and not been corrupted by the system that provides an easy path but requires you sell your soul.
The Regiment is more important than any man.....
R10
Badger52
03-12-2019, 06:45
Breaks my heart to see this.
cat in the hat
03-12-2019, 10:23
Breaks my heart to see this.
It lifts my heart back back up with pride to know that there are still members of our Regiment willing to stand up and resist no matter the cost.
The saddest element of this article is that nobody above Company level seems to have the same amount of courage.
That and imagine if just one man had taken Sontag up on his offer to fight. That would have been Homeric.
bblhead672
03-12-2019, 14:26
That and imagine if just one man had taken Sontag up on his offer to fight. That would have been Homeric.
Probably no one wanted to be forever known as that guy who kicked the general's ass in front of everyone.
WarriorDiplomat
03-12-2019, 15:03
There are some things in life that should never be messed with. The standards to become a Special Forces soldier is at the top as far as I am concerned. The Army I enlisted in was not the one my father enlisted in 22 years before me. I know that some things are going to evolve but I sure as hell do not recognize what has happened to the ranks of the Combat Arms. The military is not a proving ground for social engineering. This sickens me and I can only imagine what it does to those of you who earned your Tab. There has to be a tipping point and I have to believe we are getting dangerously close to it.
The military core the Infantry has a primal purpose hunt, close with and kill the enemy while being hunted...the only thing that should evolve in such a profane thing as war is technology. Why does the Army/Marine Corps keep going back to the more educated force idea?? the social science that is the basics of the military has been corrupted by well meaning but ignorant leaders in that in SF the school house has been hijacked by the ideologies of the SWEG where sports among other psychologist and academics reside...it is this influence that IMO has more advisory influence to the SWCS commander than any other faction within the unit. The world experienced and "woke" GB's have no input because they are not working in a position that requires a Masters+ degree....the Generals lazily look to these people instead tried and true methods.....It is simple SFAS is a requirement that identifies the possibility...consistency in conduct ad performance on a curve.....the intellectual horsepower to adapt and learn and apply....the character to endure uncertainty....the mental strength to overcome.....is what the Q-course does besides train skills
The standards are the entire problem here and the force is more than likely 50%+ of troops who were never truly tested until they went down range assuming their Team SGT actually paid attention or he had the authority to get rid of undesirables then they passed....but rarely are teams in the worst most hellish scenario on earth....its this we train, select for. We do not know today that we can say are more than likely everything we need for this scenario because the school house GO believes you can teach average men to be a Green Beret.....no doubt the rest of SF command in the Groups to the top of SOCOM are briefed regularly to what the schoolhouse is producing and the methods and reasoning for it....sans to failures in character issues....the numbers come from the Groups and the complaining goes up to get more men.....SWCS is not the only thing that needs fixing the Groups need to fix its management problems hence the need for more soldiers...no intelligent man wants to stick around this unit today.....and it ain't got nothing to do with op tempo, schools, cool uniforms or money.......psssst piss poor leadership
tom kelly
03-12-2019, 17:14
Everybody gets a pass, trophy, no hurt feelings, we are all equal, cooperate and graduate. This social engineering bull shit has to stop because your enemies will be the first to discover your shortcomings and take advantage of them.
This social engineering bull shit has to stop because your enemies will be the first to discover your shortcomings and take advantage of them.
Absolutely! Look at the freshman class of the Democrat Congress. The enemy is not only inside the wire (congress), it's in the comm bunker (media).
^^^^^"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Alexander Tytler
I don't think this ship is turning around.
I've said it before both here and elsewhere, the only chance we as a nation and free people have at this point to avoid a hot / shooting war with the communists (the entire demon-rat party and most of the republicunt party) is an Article V convention of states to propose amendments to the USC.
Without pulling on the reigns and turning this beast's head to it's tail and formally limiting the uncontrolled power that the centralized powers in DC have given themselves (with our negligent consent), a State will secede (my best guess is Alaska will be first after the Peoples' Republic of Illinois declares bankruptcy). After the first one goes, and the feds do what they do, several others will follow suit and we'll be back where we were in 1860 only without a clear reason (slavery) for the divide. And then, God help us all!
As for this SWCS issue, the symptoms of a failed national policy of endless conflict (the US hasn't been at war since 1945..) combined with the overall wusification of society at large are just rearing their ugly faces throughout the entire organization. GO's are political creatures. They are direct reflections of the national command who appoints them. It's kind of like getting mad at water for being wet. The cure is to get smaller as an overall organization. No O-type will ever brief that in a slide though because they see that as a sign of weakness to the bean counters who put them there to "get the job done". However, without a clear and defined job to do, the mission becomes the reason to do more missions. More missions = more O-types to control the missions = more money to spend = more missions...... On the pointy end of the stick, guys see this very clearly and are wore out, broken, and fed up. Those who are brought in to replace them are nothing more than a direct reflection of society at large and due to the ever increasing demand signal from the GO's, standards ARE lowered, thus feeding the fed-up who get out.
All in all, it's a destructive cycle and without bold action, this whole fiasco is just pissing up a rope.
I've said it before both here and elsewhere, the only chance we as a nation and free people have at this point to avoid a hot / shooting war with the communists (the entire demon-rat party and most of the republicunt party) is an Article V convention of states to propose amendments to the USC.
I agree, but the movement has been going on for 5 or 6 years and they only have 16 States onboard. They need 34. I'm not sure that they can pull it off in time.
I think I am lost - I may have walked into the wrong thread - so, this thread is dealing with a tight-kit community suffering from a scandal that seems to prove that standards have been compromised - integrity has been questioned - and the very roots of an institution are now suspect in as much as their top trainers have been letting substandard performers graduate from the program fully aware that they should have never been there in the first place....
Are we talking about Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, and William Singer or is this still an SFAS thread?
Or is it the same thing?
Or does it even matter anymore?
Trapper John
03-13-2019, 13:38
I think I am lost - I may have walked into the wrong thread - so, this thread is dealing with a tight-kit community suffering from a scandal that seems to prove that standards have been compromised - integrity has been questioned - and the very roots of an institution are now suspect in as much as their top trainers have been letting substandard performers graduate from the program fully aware that they should have never been there in the first place....
Are we talking about Felicity Huffman, Lori Loughlin, and William Singer or is this still an SFAS thread?
Or is it the same thing?
Or does it even matter anymore?
As usual Brother, your biting sarcasm speaks truth in volumes! Unfortunately it has become a distinction without a difference.:D
WarriorDiplomat
03-14-2019, 10:39
^^^^^"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Alexander Tytler
I don't think this ship is turning around.
I would like to think that we as a nation have woken to the New World Order agenda....but.....they have our youth...and our future
tom kelly
03-14-2019, 23:55
I would like to think that we as a nation have woken to the New World Order agenda....but.....they have our youth...and our future
They Don't have all of the youth, My grandchildren ages 18 to 33 and great-grandchildren 2 to 16 think like I do. I spend time with them QUALITY TIME. They see through the "Progressive Socialist" propaganda spewed by the Liars in Government, Schools from grades K to postgraduate, The mainstream media, their former associates who were once their friends but were seduced by the propaganda from the left. IT IS UP TO US the parents, grandparents and great grandparents is we live that long to STAY IN THE FIGHT.
Badger52
03-15-2019, 04:37
IT IS UP TO US the parents, grandparents and great grandparents is we live that long to STAY IN THE FIGHT.Amen. They are the ones I am fighting for, the only ones that matter, not the whole school district.
Combat Diver
03-15-2019, 10:15
Seems he should have his Tab revoked for fair play.
CD
Badger52
04-04-2019, 17:38
Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) told Breitbart News on Thursday that his office will investigate allegations that a two-star Army general has wrongly retaliated against Green Berets under his command at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare School and Center (SWCS).
Those allegations center on Army Maj. Gen. Kurt L. Sonntag, who unleashed a string of career-ending punishments last year, after one Green Beret instructor at SWCS wrote a 6,399-word anonymous email expressing concern over the alleged lowering of standards for candidates going through the Qualification course, where Green Berets are graduated.
“That is something when I get back to my office [in North Carolina] we’ll be looking into it,” said Tillis, who is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Personnel Subcommittee and represents North Carolina, where SWCS is located at Fort Bragg.
“There are some standards that I think are completely appropriate, but when we start lowering the standards to address anything other than capabilities and readiness, then I’m willing to take the politically unpopular position to make sure that our folks are, well, they’re safe and lethal. I’ll make sure that my staff follow up on it.”
He said he has not seen the specific allegations, so he cannot yet say if he agrees with them, but he said they are “certainly” worth looking into.
“Anytime you have somebody on the ground — we’re talking Green Berets — these are highly skilled, experienced people, and anytime, they have a vested interest in making sure that their peers are equally ready and capable, and so anytime those folks on the ground, their opinion is very important,” he said.
Full article w/recap of previously discussed HERE (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/04/thom-tillis-investigate-allegations-retaliation-green-berets/).
There is an entire staff hard at work producing countless powerpoint slides that all show how no standards have changed. The Q' is harder now than ever before - hell - some of the finest SF Soldiers to ever wear a Green Beret never even attended the SFQC.
remain calm, all is well - nothing to see here - move along
WarriorDiplomat
04-04-2019, 21:21
The General, his staff and USASFC/USASOC/SOCOM with the stable of the brightest thinking sycophants' in the community will be there to spin and lie to cover this up.....orders through implication have been given to keep mouths shut or face the same treatment as the others...the General made it loud and clear from my foxhole and the silence from SWCS supports my opinion that he will retaliate with wrecking your career and say it was for whatever reason....the senator will be gaslighted...unless and I hope they do the NCO's etc...in question have irrefutable evidence and the General and his staff gets caught lying about it and even then heads will roll below him I am sure...much like the Democrats the GEN will throw everyone below him under the bus to cover his ass
So I hear Sonntag is Optimizing SFQC. When I asked what that was the reply I got was it will be shortened. Has anyone else heard about this?
The sooner you get them out of the course - the sooner they can get the experience they need to be good Green Berets.
They aren't getting experience by wasting away in the school house getting hazed by a bunch of low grade unprofessional has been SF guys that couldnt make it in group and only came to SWC because their Company SGM wanted to get rid of them...
For shit sake - look at these rif-raf: writing night letters, discriminating against gay couples, building phone apps when they should be mentoring troops, threatening to fight the CG in a town hall meeting.
Good lord - the shorter the Q-Course the better - I say send them straight from SFAS to an ODA. An ODA will do a far better job of training them than these baseball hat wearing hoodlums in SWC.
Peregrino
04-05-2019, 13:05
The sooner you get them out of the course - the sooner they can get the experience they need to be good Green Berets.
They aren't getting experience by wasting away in the school house getting hazed by a bunch of low grade unprofessional has been SF guys that couldnt make it in group and only came to SWC because their Company SGM wanted to get rid of them...
For shit sake - look at these rif-raf: writing night letters, discriminating against gay couples, building phone apps when they should be mentoring troops, threatening to fight the CG in a town hall meeting.
Good lord - the shorter the Q-Course the better - I say send them straight from SFAS to an ODA. An ODA will do a far better job of training them than these baseball hat wearing hoodlums in SWC.
Very "Swiftian" of you. I don't know whether to laugh at the satire or cringe at the truths. :munchin Sadly, a lot of good guys who are trying to do right by the Regiment will get splattered in the current shit storm.
WarriorDiplomat
04-06-2019, 08:12
Very "Swiftian" of you. I don't know whether to laugh at the satire or cringe at the truths. :munchin Sadly, a lot of good guys who are trying to do right by the Regiment will get splattered in the current shit storm.
And they wonder why the recruiting is having a hard time and taking less than stellar candidates to fill the needs of the "customer"
This is what happens when academics influence policy, recruiting. selection and training philosophy even in the regiment academics seem to be preferred over common sense troops...they are trying to take a booksmart nerd who walks out of the library and miraculously immediately has the instincts to function in the real world...not likely....this is like the hunter vs the philosopher on the hunters turf
The powerpoints will be full of deceptive graphs, stats etc.....you know metrics....when we all know the devil is in the details and intangibles...they have practiced this sales pitch year after year over and over
I wonder though if the sycophant culture and overall dishonesty in the regiment is why the GEN believes he is producing competent GB's? I am curious what the Groups are saying to USASFC about the quality I wonder what the battalions are telling the Group I wonder what the companies are telling the Bn and so on...Commander like to pull the old reliable response to low quality complaints "The Team Sgts need to step up and train that soldier" I have already heard the CSM's gaslight responses
This is what happens when academics influence policy, recruiting. selection and training philosophy even in the regiment academics seem to be preferred over common sense troops...they are trying to take a book-smart nerd who walks out of the library (higher education of learning) and miraculously immediately has the instincts to function in the real world...not likely....this is like the hunter vs the philosopher on the hunters turf.Stay safe and AIO brothers...
Guy
Good comments...wrong forum.
Leadership might want to carefully consider their seemingly preferred courses of action:
The head of the California Air National Guard and one of its five wing commanders have been removed from their positions amid complaints of reprisals against whistleblowers and allegations of a cover-up of misconduct that reached into the highest ranks of the organization, officials announced Friday. Maj. Gen. Clay L. Garrison, the top commander of the 4,700-member air guard, was dismissed for being unable to "maintain a positive command climate," said Lt. Col. Thomas Keegan, spokesman for the California Military Department. (a/o 1600 8 Apr)
How does that saying go??:munchin
beating will continue until we can "maintain a positive command climate"
chdoro89
05-12-2019, 15:00
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/05/03/sources-army-general-retaliated-green-berets-forced-retire/amp/
WarriorDiplomat
05-12-2019, 20:55
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/05/03/sources-army-general-retaliated-green-berets-forced-retire/amp/
Yep what a piece of shit
The thing is just like other well known shitbags that many tend to be indifferent towards...this did not just happen at SWCS he has had these undesirable traits his whole adult life no doubt about it.....what is sad is so many barely know a guy from years ago in but a window of time in his career and then vouch that he is a good dude and usually end up with egg on their face.....the discernment in this community is horrible
Combat Diver
05-12-2019, 22:27
Would be justice that his tab was revoked also.
CD