View Full Version : Democrats Stole the Election in California — Legally, Through ‘Ballot Harvesting’
Are we there yet?
It sounds “bizarre,” as outgoing Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R-WI) described it to the Washington Post on Thursday — but it is absolutely true: Democratic operatives handed in pile after pile of other people’s ballots.
And Demorats are proud of it, mocking Republicans for failing to take advantage of a new law signed by Governor Jerry Brown in 2016, over GOP objections, that allows “ballot harvesting,” and which some Republicans are now blaming for their defeat.
The practice explains several mysteries about the 2018 election, such as: why mail-in ballots caused massive shifts toward Democrats in races Republicans thought they won on Election Night; why Republicans won the turnout battle in the primary, but lost it in the general election; and why Democrats with party backing defeated fellow Democrats without it — even when the latter had more money.
“Ballot harvesting” by Democratic Party operatives — a surprise tactic they likely saved for the general election — appears to have made the difference. The San Francisco Chronicle reported Thursday that Democrats ran a disciplined, door-to-door campaign offering to deliver voters’ ballots to the polls:
Few people noticed when Gov. Jerry Brown signed the changes in AB1921 into law two years ago. In the past, California allowed only relatives or people living in the same household to drop off mail ballots for another voter. The new law allowed anyone, even a paid political campaign worker, to collect and return ballots — “harvesting” them, in political slang.
…
In Orange County alone, where every House seat went Democratic, “the number of Election Day vote-by-mail dropoffs was unprecedented — over 250,000,” Fred Whitaker, chairman of the county Republican Party, said in a note to supporters. “This is a direct result of ballot harvesting allowed under California law for the first time. That directly caused the switch from being ahead on election night to losing two weeks later.”
…
For Democrats, the ballot harvesting was all part of a greater effort to get out the vote from their supporters, particularly from occasional voters.
“We beat Republicans on the ground, fair and square,” said Katie Merrill, a Democratic consultant deeply involved in November campaigns. “Many of the field plans included (ballot harvesting) as an option to deliver voters or their ballots” to the polls.
Republicans, in contrast, simply focused on traditional turnout operations — and lost badly.
In the days after the election, some Republicans speculated that there had been “voter fraud” in the state. And, true, Los Angeles County prosecutors busted a ring that bribed the homeless to register fraudulently. The Department of Motor Vehicles also registered 1,500 ineligible voters.
Yet “ballot harvesting” likely had a bigger effect.
Democrat Secretary of State Alex Padilla mocked Republican concerns, telling Politico: “What they call strange and bizarre, we call democracy.”
But it is democracy as practiced almost nowhere else in the world — except for one-party banana republics in failed third-world states, where the sight of ruling party apparatchiks dropping off bundles of ballots is not unusual.
Eric Eggers, author of Fraud: How the Left Plans to Steal the Next Election, told Breitbart News Tonight on Thursday that “ballot harvesting” also creates opportunities for coercion and bribery. Nevertheless, it is legal.
And as Shawn Steel, the California committeeman for the Republican National Committee (RNC), wrote on Wednesday, it is not necessary for Democrats to break the law when fraud has effectively been legalized, through “ballot harvesting” and other methods.
“Merciless and unsparing, California Democrats have systematically undermined California’s already-weak voter protection laws to guarantee permanent one-party rule,” he said.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/30/blue-state-blues-democrats-stole-the-election-in-california-legally-through-ballot-harvesting/
I say, "well played, thanks for tipping your hand prior to 2020." Now Republicans know they have to utilize this tactic in all future elections in CA.
x/S
In their zeal to make voting easier they have totally corrupted the process which I am sure was the goal all along. Voting should require an effort.
This is not new. I don't know why the Ca REDs have not been in court over this when it first was signed?
And Demorats are proud of it, mocking Republicans for failing to take advantage of a new law signed by Governor Jerry Brown in 2016, over GOP objections, that allows “ballot harvesting,” and which some Republicans are now blaming for their defeat.
If someone doesn't stop this in court, every blue state will be HARVESTING votes in every election in the future. AND probably REDs as well..
It is a complete abomination of our electoral system.
:mad::mad::mad:
In their zeal to make voting easier they have totally corrupted the process which I am sure was the goal all along. Voting should require an effort.
I speculate the DEM's tried the same thing in Florida, AZ and GA. This ends justify the means mentality will be the end of the US as we know it.
I say, "well played, thanks for tipping your hand prior to 2020." Now Republicans know they have to utilize this tactic in all future elections in CA.
x/S
They tipped their hand but by 2020 Dems will come have a new gimmick in play while Repubs are using a trick the Dems showed in 18. The GOP need to get down and dirty in politics instead using Dems old tactics.
Badger52
12-01-2018, 10:47
They tipped their hand but by 2020 Dems will come have a new gimmick in play while Repubs are using a trick the Dems showed in 18. The GOP need to get down and dirty in politics instead using Dems old tactics.^^ This. Equivalent to GOP still waiting for 22 mechanized divisions to come roaring through the Fulda Gap. They can't keep up because they don't have true-believers going 24/7/365 just to wargame this stuff.
WarriorDiplomat
12-01-2018, 11:20
Wait a second let me get this straight
Trump offers a penthouse to Putin if he can build in Moscow unless he becomes President then no more business dealings-so after Trump wins no penthouse
Obama and Hillary negotiated to give up 20% of our Uranium to Russia that gave Russia's military back its bite-So if Hillary wins Russia wins again
Trump is accused of collusion with Russia to interfere with our elections
Democrat states push laws that co-opt criminals, no proof of citizenship of that Snipes lady and eyewitness accounts of just changing ballots without consent or oversight and now this
The conspiracy makes perfect sense
Diabolical
No wonder Californians are so depressed nd confused it actually gives me hope that people their are angry and confused as to how Democrats won given their policies further degrading what is left in California....the Dems stole the election
Naw....has to be fake news keep looking for Trumps collusion he must have he is abrasive, un Presidential and bucks the protocols of corrupt politicians
Badger52
12-01-2018, 12:33
Wait a second let me get this straight
Trump offers a penthouse to Putin if he can build in Moscow unless he becomes President then no more business dealings-so after Trump wins no penthouse
Obama and Hillary negotiated to give up 20% of our Uranium to Russia that gave Russia's military back its bite-So if Hillary wins Russia wins again
Trump is accused of collusion with Russia to interfere with our elections
Democrat states push laws that co-opt criminals, no proof of citizenship of that Snipes lady and eyewitness accounts of just changing ballots without consent or oversight and now this
The conspiracy makes perfect sense
Diabolical
Except once they got their Uranium deal the Russians didn't care whether Felonia von Pantsuit got rolled up or not; her further value < Putin's dislike for her because she fostered that little thing in the Ukraine over which he's been a tad PO'd, he didn't like her already, the new Ukrainian regime was trying to help her, and he knows the Dem establishment are the genuine foreign-intrigue mongers in the bunch. The old term 'useful idiot' applies. After the Rostom deal he probably just said, "my hands are washed."
Other than that, umm, yeah, you pretty much summed it up.
:munchin
I mean, this is bigger than the average baseball conference at the mound... we gotta lotta shit goin' on here.
:D
tom kelly
12-01-2018, 13:19
ALL BALLOTS IN ENGLISH ONLY: POSITIVE PROOF OF US CITIZENSHIP BIRTH CERTIFICATES FROM ALL YOUR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS, YOUR GRANDPARENTS and YOUR CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE: A REQUISITE TO VOTE IS YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND YOUR INTELLIGENCE via A TEST GIVEN AS A REQUISITE TO GRADUATE GRADE 12 BY AGE 19: TEST IS IN ENGLISH, QUESTIONS FROM AREAS OF MATH, SCIENCE, HISTORY, LITERATURE & LANGUAGE, PHILOSOPHY, and ECONOMICS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PASS THIS TEST IF YOU ATTENDED SCHOOL AND PAID ATTENTION: TIME HAS COME TO CULL THE HERD.
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 13:33
No, guys, the Democrats did not "steal" the election in California. I've noticed that most of you who are agreeing with this sentiment do not live in California. I've lived here for decades now. We've had Republican governors and senators in the past, and we've tilted Republican for presidential candidates like Reagan. But the current sentiment on the street in California is strongly anti-Republican and very strongly anti-Trump.
Californians voted overwhelmingly for the Democratic slate in this last election. Don't delude yourselves into thinking this election was "stolen" by the Democrats. Not in California, not in 2018. And before you start pontificating about how screwed up this state is, bear in mind that California recently passed England as the fifth largest economy in the world. So overall, we must be doing something right.
I've noticed that most of you who are agreeing with this sentiment do not live in California.
I lived there from 1976 until a few of years ago. I watched the deterioration of the once great state and made a run for the border . . . the Arizona border. (And speaking of AZ, in the two main statewide elections, Governor and Senator, how did the Republican Governor receive roughly 250,000 more votes than the Republican candidate for Senator?)
Tell me, who was the Republican candidate for Senate in CA in the recent election? How did very conservative Orange County suddenly lose all of it's Republican Congressmen in one election? Why is King County still counting votes 3 weeks after the election?
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 14:22
There was no Republican running for senator because in the statewide primaries the two candidates who received the highest number of votes were both Democrats. So it was basically a runoff, Democrat vs. Democrat. That's how it works here, the highest vote-getters become the candidates; party affiliation has no bearing.
The reason Orange County switched to the Democrats in this last election is quite simple; even longtime Orange County Republicans are tired of the current swamp in Washington. I'm a longtime California Republican voter myself. But in this last election, I marked my ballot solidly blue. No "stolen" votes to point fingers at here. I personally know a few other longtime Republicans here in California who did likewise. Nobody was holding a gun to our heads.
Had Texas voted solidly Democrat, I'd be suspicious. But California? Are you serious?
Badger52
12-01-2018, 15:56
But the current sentiment on the street in California is strongly anti-Republican and very strongly anti-Trump.
The reason Orange County switched to the Democrats in this last election is quite simple; even longtime Orange County Republicans are tired of the current swamp in Washington.Mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore, huh? These tantrums by a populace occur quite often at mid-terms actually. But I'm curious - truly - what is it about the prospect of a Democrat-controlled House, with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker (and after the VP in the line of succession), that attracts so many others than just the state coastal areas, with the 5th largest economy in the world? I ask because it's pretty clear that ballot harvesting isn't a concern to you. So there must be a real attractant that, all on your own, you and many others decided to wholesale switch party, and not just because of animus toward one man. Voted a full blue ticket, as you say.
Caveat: I was born & raised not too far from you, and the San Fernando Valley doesn't, now or then, fall in Orange County.
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 16:37
Here's an article that sums it all up quite succinctly: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-inside-the-gops-california-nightmare/ar-BBQkRQ8?ocid=spartandhp
It was posted on MSNBC, so many of you will just outright label it as "Fake News." Call it what you like, but the numbers don't lie. As one political consultant said in the article: “If you were running for dogcatcher in Orange County — or in a lot of places in California — and you had an ‘R’ next to your name on the ballot, you lost.”
We've had some devastating fires here in California these past few years, and in the face of that Trump and many other Republicans are still labeling climate change as a "hoax" or "Fake News." Fine. I'll trust the opinions of thousands of scientists, over the half-baked opinions of a former real estate developer. Many other voters in California obviously feel the same. That's not my only reason for switching from red to blue, but it's one of them.
When the Republicans regain their senses and move back to being the party of Reagan, Bush, McCain, and former California Governor Pete Wilson, I'll be happy to switch back.
WarriorDiplomat
12-01-2018, 17:46
Here's an article that sums it all up quite succinctly: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-inside-the-gops-california-nightmare/ar-BBQkRQ8?ocid=spartandhp
It was posted on MSNBC, so many of you will just outright label it as "Fake News." Call it what you like, but the numbers don't lie. As one political consultant said in the article: “If you were running for dogcatcher in Orange County — or in a lot of places in California — and you had an ‘R’ next to your name on the ballot, you lost.”
Numbers don't lie? there is not a honest mathematician, statistician or a actuary who would agree with such a naïve statement
We've had some devastating fires here in California these past few years, and in the face of that Trump and many other Republicans are still labeling climate change as a "hoax" or "Fake News." Fine. I'll trust the opinions of thousands of scientists, over the half-baked opinions of a former real estate developer. Many other voters in California obviously feel the same. That's not my only reason for switching from red to blue, but it's one of them.
When the Republicans regain their senses and move back to being the party of Reagan, Bush, McCain, and former California Governor Pete Wilson, I'll be happy to switch back.
Reagan, Wilson were the last of the good Republicans the rest were RINO's
I suppose you missed the reason why Americans went outside the establishment of professional politicians and self serving narcissist like McCain. TERM LIMITS needs to be adopted....force these professional leaches back to the private sector to reacquaint themselves with the rest of our struggles
How do the Dems like Clintons and Obama become so wealthy on public servant salaries???
The primary reason many do not like Trump is his abrasiveness and status quo breaking away with un-Presidential behavior more importantly he doesn't publicly cow down and then go behind the backs to do the same thing away from prying eyes Americans always seem to suspect politicians are dirty hence the jokes and characterization of corruption....A President that frames the problem as it is and says it is not what Americans are accustomed to.....
Californians are anti Trump for the above reasons then they take direction from actors????look at the Hollywood establishment where the stories and accusations of pedophilia have come out of there for years and years and yet they turn a blind eye to it....how many members of the Hollywood elite were members of the Man-Boy hook up agency NAMBLA? they used the casting couch willingly in an exchange of sex for fame and fortune as they snort their cocaine at night and drink health shakes in the morning and wait until they are ironically rich and famous and then complain....common Americans cannot understand how these Hollywood elites can glorify the stuff they do in their make believe world of movies then appoint themselves the moral compasses of America...then speak publicly against the POTUS...is their debauchery part of the swamp? it certainly seems suspicious they are in such a fervor
Trumps policies make sense to intelligent common sense blue collar Americans the shakers and movers of society the producers of jobs the trades that makes America Globally competitive.
I don't think you have gathered why D.C. is a swamp and how those you named are rolled into the same swamp critters as the rest this "collusion" did not happen overnight the dirty back room deals the wealth gain the exchange of favors to accomplish each others objective of being able to say they accomplished 1 campaign promise yada yada yada
WarriorDiplomat
12-01-2018, 17:58
Except once they got their Uranium deal the Russians didn't care whether Felonia von Pantsuit got rolled up or not; her further value < Putin's dislike for her because she fostered that little thing in the Ukraine over which he's been a tad PO'd, he didn't like her already, the new Ukrainian regime was trying to help her, and he knows the Dem establishment are the genuine foreign-intrigue mongers in the bunch. The old term 'useful idiot' applies. After the Rostom deal he probably just said, "my hands are washed."
Other than that, umm, yeah, you pretty much summed it up.
:munchin
I mean, this is bigger than the average baseball conference at the mound... we gotta lotta shit goin' on here.
:D
Like has nothing to do with the what can you do for me world of politics.....Its not as if Clinton/Obama actually stood up to the Russians fight for Crimea and actually put their feet down.....and more importantly Clinton is proven herself far more corruptible IMO than Trump is......her willingness to make under the table deals for personal gain isn't exactly a secret.
My point was who would the Russians stand to gain more from? IMO Clinto and if this is the case shown by her actions why in gods green earth would anyone think Putin would collude to keep her out of office??
Historically, CA wildfires have largely been attributed to people (accidental and arson), machines, downed powerlines and lightening - not global warming.
Do an Internet search for the “causes of the California wildfires” and the articles stretch back for years and years including the LA Times, The NYT, the SF Chronical, National Geographic, The Atlantic, etc., etc., etc.
As to the 5th largest economy in the world...even Venezuela was an exceptionally strong economy prior to the socialists taking over and undeniably running that country into the ground.
While it is true that California has been blessed with an abundance of natural beauty, an incredible climate, vast resources and a number of incrediby successful industries - it also suffers from vast unfunded pension and healthcare liabilities, a large and ever growing welfare state, and nearly unbridled illegal immigration along with the increased costs associated with that. As many have observed, California for all its success, is rapidly becoming a place of the haves and the have-nots with a shrinking middle class.
Anyone who believes that larger government, higher taxes, less individual freedom and an open border is the key to happiness and prosperity...deserves Nancy Pelosi. Lol, the party of Klinton, Obama, Schumer...Maxine Waters...really?
I just hope that when the spending catches up with the spendthrifts...and it will...those who voted for that mess don’t ask the Feds to bail out the once beautiful state of California.
There was no Republican running for senator because in the statewide primaries the two candidates who received the highest number of votes were both Democrats.
Right! That's the very definition of democracy . . . Soviet democracy. One Party, no waiting.
p.s.: I also worked in Hollywood and know what a cesspool of Socialism/Communism it is.
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 19:59
Historically, CA wildfires have largely been attributed to people (accidental and arson), machines, downed powerlines and lightening - not global warming.
Of course, global warming did not start the fires, but it made them worse, and allowed them to become these destructive, life-taking infernos that we've seen the past couple of years. The temperatures have been hotter and the humidity has been lower than I or anyone else living here can ever remember. Last summer the temperature in my neighborhood actually peaked at 117 degrees. I've been living in the San Fernando Valley for decades now, and I've never seen the temperature get that high.
But we're getting off point. The Democrats did not "steal" this last election in California, and this "ballot harvesting" contention is beyond ridiculous. Like I said, if we were talking about Texas, the results of this last election would certainly be an unexplained anomaly, but not in California, not in 2018. Accept the fact that California has simply been pushed by the current regime in Washington into becoming a solidly blue state. And we've also grown to become the world's fifth largest economy, so we must be doing something right, despite all the years with Jerry Brown at the helm.
Here's an article that sums it all up quite succinctly: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-inside-the-gops-california-nightmare/ar-BBQkRQ8?ocid=spartandhp
When the Republicans regain their senses and move back to being the party of Reagan, Bush, McCain, and former California Governor Pete Wilson, I'll be happy to switch back.
I pray the R's don't go back to being the party of these two. I can understand however the dems wanting them back. Regarding climate change, I reserve the right to form my own opinion on this matter.
Of course, global warming did not start the fires, but it made them worse, and allowed them to become these destructive, life-taking infernos that we've seen the past couple of years. The temperatures have been hotter and the humidity has been lower than I or anyone else living here can ever remember. Last summer the temperature in my neighborhood actually peaked at 117 degrees. I've been living in the San Fernando Valley for decades now, and I've never seen the temperature get that high.
But we're getting off point. The Democrats did not "steal" this last election in California, and this "ballot harvesting" contention is beyond ridiculous. Like I said, if we were talking about Texas, the results of this last election would certainly be an unexplained anomaly, but not in California, not in 2018. Accept the fact that California has simply been pushed by the current regime in Washington into becoming a solidly blue state. And we've also grown to become the world's fifth largest economy, so we must be doing something right, despite all the years with Jerry Brown at the helm.
I’ll take your word that your neighborhood has been hotter and drier than you remember - mine has been wetter and more humid. To suggest that global warming made the fires worse is pure speculation. Many, many factual circumstances can contribute to the speed and devastation wrought by wildfire.
Moreover, it was not my contention that the Democrats illegally harvested ballots in CA. They apparently legally harvested more than the Republicans. But, doesn’t the notion of “harvesting” votes make you uncomfortable? Additionally, the Dems do enjoy a pretty poor record of credibility regarding election shenanigans. For a recent example one need only look to 2018 Broward and Palm Beach County Florida. And, look at Hillary rigging the system against Sanders in the 2016 Dem primary. Let’s face it, the Dems seem to find more ballots after the polls close than a baby finds nipples in a topless bar.
It is, however, ultimately my contention that voting for policies embraced by today’s Democrats is largely a harmful exercise. It is also undeniable that the positives (enjoyed by the state of California) which I’ve enumerated earlier have contributed to California’s economic growth despite (not because of) it’s high tax and spend policies. Those same economic and social policies result in unfunded liabilities that are not sustainable. The piper will have to be paid - and the blue wave will not save you.
Old Dog New Trick
12-01-2018, 20:53
Of course, global warming did not start the fires, but it made them worse, and allowed them to become these destructive, life-taking infernos that we've seen the past couple of years. The temperatures have been hotter and the humidity has been lower than I or anyone else living here can ever remember. Last summer the temperature in my neighborhood actually peaked at 117 degrees. I've been living in the San Fernando Valley for decades now, and I've never seen the temperature get that high.
Made them worse? Wrong! No, that is only a talking point of the liberal elite that want to tax the air you breath and the footprint of your life. Storms are not worse than the storms before only that more humans are impacted by the current storms unlike the ones before. Hurricanes are not more destructive they just have more to destroy, same with fires, floods and tornados.
The earth has been warming up since the last ice age - actually before that. It will continue to do that until the next ice age or it’s destruction whichever occurs first. It didn’t start out inhabitable it likely won’t end supporting life.
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 20:55
I’ll take your word that your neighborhood has been hotter and drier than you remember - mine has been wetter and more humid.
the Dems seem to find more ballots after the polls close than a baby finds nipples in a topless bar.
I love that line about the baby in a topless bar.:)
If your neighborhood has been "wetter and more humid," what do you attribute that to? Could it possibly be human-induced climate change? And what state do you live in? Probably not California, right? I personally haven't experienced searing heat and the lack of humidity like this since the last time I visited the Negev Desert.
hardcorps
12-01-2018, 21:12
Made them worse? Wrong! No, that is only a talking point of the liberal elite
Sure, and also a few thousand scientists all over the globe, who've actually done research, taken measurements, made computer models, etc. And yes, high temperatures and low humidity do make a forest fire burn hotter and faster. But then, as was explained to us recently by a certain member of the Washington DC "elite." we Californians have been neglectful about "raking" our forest floors, so that probably explains why all those people died in Pleasure... Oops, I mean "Paradise." ;)
I love that line about the baby in a topless bar.:)
If your neighborhood has been "wetter and more humid," what do you attribute that to?
Natural fluctuations in temperature between the ocean and atmosphere.
No, I don’t reside in California (and probably never will) but I acknowledge its natural beauty and economic success despite some truly questionable tax and spend and other public policy decisions. But, hey, that’s for the citizens of California to deal with. What does concern me is the apparant denial of unsustainable unfunded liabilities - and the relatively recent notion of things being “too big to fail.”
If California and Californians stand or fall based solely on their own fiscal strength - no problem. And, although the recent wave is blue...enjoy it because when the piper must be paid...you will see red. The red of a sea of debt.
Old Dog New Trick
12-01-2018, 21:27
Sure, and also a few thousand scientists all over the globe, who've actually done research, taken measurements, made computer models, etc. And yes, high temperatures and low humidity do make a forest fire burn hotter and faster. But then, as was explained to us recently by a certain member of the Washington DC "elite." we Californians have been neglectful about "raking" our forest floors, so that probably explains why all those people died in Pleasure... Oops, I mean "Paradise." ;)
Only recording and reporting what is actually happening...not a scientific breakthrough that “man” is responsible for the ever present changes that have been happening for tens of thousands of years. At best with carbon dating the industrial revolution of the last 100 years have had a negligible impact on the global warming effect. In the same time frame population has quadrupled worldwide through modern improvements in medicine and life mortality.
Blaming man for earthquakes, tsunamis, forest fires, tornados, hurricanes and floods, is like blaming someone for farting in a public restaurant.
Do you know what existed 100 years ago at the base of Mt. Shasta? A few hundred hearty souls busy looking for gold and a few thousand people cutting the forests and burning off the scrap and waste wood that wasn’t useful for anything else. In fact up until twenty to thirty years ago logging companies and forest management kept natural and man made fire breaks open and responsible with adequate road networks to combat fires from nature and the occasional manmade ones. That has all but been abandoned because on liberal tree huggers and using state funds for forest management to pay for social services and education.
Badger52
12-01-2018, 21:33
“If you were running for dogcatcher in Orange County — or in a lot of places in California — and you had an ‘R’ next to your name on the ballot, you lost.” Thanks; good example of the tantrum phenomenon I mentioned.
Is there climate change? You bet; over cycles that span 1000's of years, some even less. (Hell, even the wheat belt had a blizzard in July 160 years ago.) When that discussion is willing to incorporate the long - and demonstrated - occurence of the cyclic nature of Earth's environment they might get my attention. Meanwhile, for the flicker of a millisecond that is called a lifetime, make more firebreaks and brush-out the understory. It helps, really. It might not be as aesthetically pleasing to some, but it doesn't explode like a JDAM either.
Sure, and also a few thousand scientists all over the globe, who've actually done research, taken measurements, made computer models, etc.
Exactly how many of them are climate scientists without the need for government funding?
My Father-in-Law was a scientist at the Hughes Research Lab in Malibu. Had he joined the "consensus" he would have been included in that number. He didn't because he knew NOTHING about either the climate, or more importantly, astrophysics and the MAJOR influence of our star, Sol, or as you may know it, the Sun, has on the climate cycles.
Tell me movie guy, what, and who, gave birth to Godzilla? The answer to that is when the left learned that movies for entertainment could also be used for not only propaganda but instilling fear in the populace. And later, "brainwashing" the people.
And, Marine, I had a nodding acquaintance with Ron Kovic, 3/7/1st Marine Div. He lived in Redondo and I lived in Hermosa. I saw him quite often at Good Stuff. Boy did he have an entourage after Born on the 4th of July, but they drifted off after the film left the theaters. He moved from front-and-center to a little table outside the extended indoor seating area. I always nodded to him when he showed up and said "hi, how ya doing" as I walked to the restroom. It was sad, but I really had nothing to say to start a conversation with him.
WarriorDiplomat
12-01-2018, 22:32
Sure, and also a few thousand scientists all over the globe, who've actually done research, taken measurements, made computer models, etc. And yes, high temperatures and low humidity do make a forest fire burn hotter and faster. But then, as was explained to us recently by a certain member of the Washington DC "elite." we Californians have been neglectful about "raking" our forest floors, so that probably explains why all those people died in Pleasure... Oops, I mean "Paradise." ;)
Lies of the left
2 things
1-no real scientist worth listening too believes the hypothesis they think is infallible and not open to falsehoods and reversals
2-If the science is true why don't scientist agree especially the ones not funded by a liberal left institutions?
https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
Periods of Earth warming and cooling occur in cycles. This is well understood, as is the fact that small-scale cycles of about 40 years exist within larger-scale cycles of 400 years, which in turn exist inside still larger scale cycles of 20,000 years, and so on.
Earth's climate was in a cool period from A.D. 1400 to about A.D. 1860, dubbed the "Little Ice Age." This period was characterized by harsh winters, shorter growing seasons, and a drier climate. The decline in global temperatures was a modest 1/2° C, but the effects of this global cooling cycle were more pronounced in the higher latitudes. The Little Ice Age has been blamed for a host of human suffering including crop failures like the "Irish Potato Famine" and the demise of the medieval Viking colonies in Greenland.
Today we enjoy global temperatures which have warmed back to levels of the so called "Medieval Warm Period," which existed from approximately A.D. 1000 to A.D. 1350.
Major Causes of Global Temperature Shifts
(1) Astronomical Causes
11 year and 206 year cycles: Cycles of solar variability ( sunspot activity )
21,000 year cycle: Earth's combined tilt and elliptical orbit around the Sun ( precession of the equinoxes )
41,000 year cycle: Cycle of the +/- 1.5° wobble in Earth's orbit ( tilt )
100,000 year cycle: Variations in the shape of Earth's elliptical orbit ( cycle of eccentricity )
(2) Atmospheric Causes
Heat retention: Due to atmospheric gases, mostly gaseous water vapor (not droplets), also carbon dioxide, methane, and a few other miscellaneous gases-- the "greenhouse effect"
Solar reflectivity: Due to white clouds, volcanic dust, polar ice caps
(3) Tectonic Causes
Landmass distribution: Shifting continents (continental drift) causing changes in circulatory patterns of ocean currents. It seems that whenever there is a large land mass at one of the Earth's poles, either the north pole or south pole, there are ice ages.
Undersea ridge activity: "Sea floor spreading" (associated with continental drift) causing variations in ocean displacement.
Compiled by R.S. Bradley and J.A. Eddy based on J.T. Houghton et al., Climate Change: The IPCC Assessment, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1990 and published in EarthQuest, vo. 1, 1991. Courtesy of Thomas Crowley, Remembrance of Things Past: Greenhouse Lessons from the Geologic Record
1. The idea that man-made pollution is responsible for global warming is not supported by historical fact. The period known as the Holocene Maximum is a good example-- so-named because it was the hottest period in human history. The interesting thing is this period occurred approximately 7500 to 4000 years B.P. (before present)-- long before humans invented industrial pollution.
2. CO2 in our atmosphere has been increasing steadily for the last 18,000 years-- long before humans invented smokestacks ( Figure 1). Unless you count campfires and intestinal gas, man played no role in the pre-industrial increases.
As illustrated in this chart of Ice Core data from the Soviet Station Vostok in Antarctica, CO2 concentrations in earth's atmosphere move with temperature. Both temperatures and CO2 have been on the increase for 18,000 years. Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes-- confirming that CO2 is not a primary driver of the temperature changes (9).
Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward.
3. Total human contributions to greenhouse gases account for only about 0.28% of the "greenhouse effect" (Figure 2). Anthropogenic (man-made) carbon dioxide (CO2) comprises about 0.117% of this total, and man-made sources of other gases ( methane, nitrous oxide (NOX), other misc. gases) contributes another 0.163% .
Approximately 99.72% of the "greenhouse effect" is due to natural causes -- mostly water vapor and traces of other gases, which we can do nothing at all about. Eliminating human activity altogether would have little impact on climate change.
4. If global warming is caused by CO2 in the atmosphere then does CO2 also cause increased sun activity too?
This chart adapted after Nigel Calder (6) illustrates that variations in sun activity are generally proportional to both variations in atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature (Figure 3).
Put another way, rising Earth temperatures and increasing CO2 may be "effects" and our own sun the "cause".
FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE
Of the 186 billion tons of carbon from CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.
At 380 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present. Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.
CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.
CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.
If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!
http://www.globalclimatescam.com/opinion/top-ten-reasons-climate-change-is-a-hoax/
http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/myths/31000-scientists-say-no-convincing-evidence
https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/02/18/5-scientific-reasons-that-global-warming-isnt-happening-n1796423
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/13032017/epa-scott-pruitt-donald-trump-climate-denial-carbon-dioxide-global-warming
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2015/02/09/top-10-global-warming-lies-that-may-shock-you/#14f9a47c53a5
https://www.universetoday.com/38454/researchers-say-sun-cycle-alters-earths-climate/
I’ll take your word that your neighborhood has been hotter and drier than you remember - mine has been wetter and more humid. To suggest that global warming made the fires worse is pure speculation. Many, many factual circumstances can contribute to the speed and devastation wrought by wildfire.
...
Heat and cold come from normal weather cycles and even if manufacturing caused harmful emissions, what is the fix? Put all the red states manufacturers out of business by unprecedented regulations that will put those in the red states out of work. All this while China, India, SK merrily pollute all they want. They don't give a crap about environmental controls at the level half the Americans seem to.
If Al Gore and his ilk would have their way businesses couldn't afford to compete globally. Who would suffer other than the blue collar folks?
Trump nailed it when he unleashed businesses to expand.
WarriorDiplomat
12-01-2018, 23:06
"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."
Stephen Schneider (leading advocate of the global warming theory)
(in interview for Discover magazine, Oct 1989)
"In the United States...we have to first convince the American People and the Congress that the climate problem is real."
former President Bill Clinton in a 1997 address to the United Nations
Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are...
former Vice President Al Gore
(now, chairman and co-founder of Generation Investment Management--
a London-based business that sells carbon credits)
(in interview with Grist Magazine May 9, 2006, concerning his book, An Inconvenient Truth)
"In the long run, the replacement of the precise and disciplined language of science by the misleading language of litigation and advocacy may be one of the more important sources of damage to society incurred in the current debate over global warming."
Dr. Richard S. Lindzen
(leading climate and atmospheric science expert- MIT) (3)
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 02:49
Wow, we've gotten way off track. I jumped on this thread to talk about a recent election in California that was allegedly "stolen," and now we're talking about global climate change. But I believe I may be the one who inadvertently steered the conversation in that direction, and my apologies for that. I have learned the hard way not to engage in discussions with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, Holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, or conspiracy theorists of all stripes. So I'm bowing out of that discussion.
But back to my original point: no, the Democrats did not "steal" this most recent election. The general mood throughout California lately is anti-Republicans and anti-Trump, and that's why the Republicans lost all those congressional seats. That's why the Republican Party in California is not quite dead yet, but currently on life support. Simple as that.
change my mind
Your post started the climate change skew to this thread?
Here's an article that sums it all up quite succinctly: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-inside-the-gops-california-nightmare/ar-BBQkRQ8?ocid=spartandhp
It was posted on MSNBC, so many of you will just outright label it as "Fake News." Call it what you like, but the numbers don't lie. As one political consultant said in the article: “If you were running for dogcatcher in Orange County — or in a lot of places in California — and you had an ‘R’ next to your name on the ballot, you lost.”
We've had some devastating fires here in California these past few years, and in the face of that Trump and many other Republicans are still labeling climate change as a "hoax" or "Fake News." Fine. I'll trust the opinions of thousands of scientists, over the half-baked opinions of a former real estate developer. Many other voters in California obviously feel the same. That's not my only reason for switching from red to blue, but it's one of them.
When the Republicans regain their senses and move back to being the party of Reagan, Bush, McCain, and former California Governor Pete Wilson, I'll be happy to switch back.
Wow, we've gotten way off track. I jumped on this thread to talk about a recent election in California that was allegedly "stolen," and now we're talking about global climate change. But I believe I may be the one who inadvertently steered the conversation in that direction, and my apologies for that. I have learned the hard way not to engage in discussions with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, Holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, or conspiracy theorists of all stripes. So I'm bowing out of that discussion.
Wow, we've gotten way off track. I jumped on this thread to talk about a recent election in California that was allegedly "stolen," and now we're talking about global climate change......
The left can only claim man is killing the planet with global warming if they ignore the Minoan, Roman and Medieval Warm periods.
It seems civilization has flourished during the warm periods and struggled during the cooler periods.
True scientists argue if we're out of the last ice age or in an inter glacial period. Other scientists are arguing about what the weather will be like in the next 50 years based on the low solar sunspot cycles.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 10:23
Your post started the climate change skew to this thread?Yes, I already admitted that, and apologized for skewing off-topic. But I don't apologize for switching party affiliations. And as I also said, I don't want to continue debating with climate change deniers, because it's as futile as debating with anti-vaxxers, moon-landing deniers, flat-earthers, Holocaust deniers, and conspiracy theorists in general. Those folks are smugly convinced that they have all the answers, so debate is a waste of time.
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 10:23
I have learned the hard way not to engage in discussions with anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, moon-landing deniers, Holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, or conspiracy theorists of all stripes. So I'm bowing out of that discussion.
But back to my original point: no, the Democrats did not "steal" this most recent election. The general mood throughout California lately is anti-Republicans and anti-Trump, and that's why the Republicans lost all those congressional seats. That's why the Republican Party in California is not quite dead yet, but currently on life support. Simple as that.
Well, there you go again! Apparently not, you haven’t learned your audience yet. You speak more about the people of So. California than the members of this board, no wonder they call it the Granola State, still filled with nuts, fruits and vegetables.
Some if not many here have actually seen the curvature of the earth, it’s really cool under canopy above 17,000’ when the sun rises. Some of our fathers and grand fathers freed holocaust survivors from concentration camps and or have been to the worst of them in countries often not visited for pleasure, some of them were camp survivors themselves, we have seen first hand the gruesome ends justifying the means of socialism and dictators in Cambodia, Poland, Warsaw and other countries over the past 100 years. Some here, participated in the lunar program with NASA. Many here have gone to the ends of the world to care for the sick, vaccinate the young and poor, and provide for the general welfare of those less able. Unlike those in Hollywood we have had learned from thousands of years of war, public strife, and personal hardships to harden our views and strengthen our resolve and respect for the planet.
As for California and especially Orange County, have you ever wondered where the Republicans might have gone as apposed to just thinking they changed brands because of the latest President? I’m certain they are not the homeless camped out along the Santa Ana River or elsewhere in sunny So. California! It’s not just the wealthy Republicans who have moved out of the state, wealthy Democrats have been moving to places like Arizona, Texas, Colorado, Washington and Oregon for years now based on recent voting percentages in those states.
Demographics plays a larger role in elections than people changing their minds because of the winds or flavor of the day. As I understand it right now President Obama has changed the minds of thousands of former Democrats who have “woke” and seen that they were lied to and kept on a short lease until their usefulness wears out.
Those folks are smugly convinced that they have all the answers, so debate is a waste of time.
LOL...the irony.
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 10:32
LOL...the irony.
For real! :munchin
Yeah, talk about an anti science closed mind.
Notice he didn't want to talk about those pesky warm periods.
Badger52
12-02-2018, 11:03
And as I also said, I don't want to continue debating with climate change deniers, because it's as futile as debating with anti-vaxxers, moon-landing deniers, flat-earthers, Holocaust deniers, and conspiracy theorists in general. Those folks are smugly convinced that they have all the answers, so debate is a waste of time.That's the second time you put that generalized card on the table. I feel so... so... deplorable.
:boohoo
Those folks are smugly convinced that they have all the answers, so debate is a waste of time.Actually the smug ones are the globalist elite; you know, the ones that are always convinced they are the smartest person in the room - and they got your help. Good job! Snag control of the economy through control of health-care, regulate conduct based on black & white judgements about a particular climate theory that they're all in on. And anyone who doesn't buy into that is a lesser substance to be indulged or eliminated.
Enjoy your progress Comrade. I've seen this movie before.
:munchin
Golf1echo
12-02-2018, 11:25
California, New York, Illinois, etc...May destroy this country eventually, I hope that is not the case but looking at their cost and liability to the Federal System they are certainly a concern even to their own citizens.
This article alludes to what we are discussing, this has been a growing issue for years... if one is unable to disern the why’s of California ID’s needing another level of security they certainly lack the ability to have a broader discussion.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/travel/amp/Driver-s-license-still-gets-you-on-a-plane-12482570.php
The subject of the OP was really about the concept of “ballot harvesting.”
The notion of showing up at a polling place with a couple of tractor-trailer loads of “harvested” ballots is disconcerting - particularly if all that is needed is a drivers license (and those might be issued to illegals).
Thus, the trading of a pack of smokes or a bottle for a vote potentially evolves into a much larger harvest effort...begs the question as to whether illegals play a role in this “harvest,” also.
Fall behind at the close of polls on election night and just dial up 1-800-agronomist.voter.com and order a truck load of freshly harvested votes for Brenda Snipes-types to work through the count. Wake up the next day a winner. Easy peasy. This is obviously tounge-in-cheek but given some of the incredibly small margins...doesn’t take much of a harvest combined with an unscrupulous election supervisor...or two...Voilà !
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 11:40
The subject of the OP was really about the concept of “ballot harvesting.”
The notion of showing up at a polling place with a couple of tractor-trailer loads of “harvested” ballots is disconcerting - particularly if all that is needed is a drivers license (and those might be issued to illegals).
Thus, the trading of a pack of smokes or a bottle for a vote potentially evolves into a much larger harvest effort...begs the question as to whether illegals play a role in this “harvest,” also.
Fall behind at the close of polls on election night and just dial up 1-800-agronomist.voter.com and order a truck load of freshly harvested votes for Brenda Snipes-types to work through the count. Wake up the next day a winner. Easy peasy. This is obviously tounge-in-cheek but given some of the incredibly small margins...doesn’t take much of a harvest combined with an unscrupulous election supervisor...or two...Voilà !
There has to be and is a better way to vote: securely, on-time, and within the voting window to meet the requirements of the constitution and amendments established by law...only some people are against that.
I think this latest voting experience has shown again that laws are easily broken and rules are only used if they support your side. Just ask a judge to render an unbiased decision.
I don’t doubt for a second that homeless people, felons and illegal aliens in California, Arizona, Florida, and Texas, filled out ballots with help from volunteers that “confirmed” their eligibility to vote. “Check this box here, sign your name, and we will fill out the rest for you and turn it in...at the appropriate time.”
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 11:40
Well, there you go again! Apparently not, you haven’t learned your audience yet. You speak more about the people of So. California than the members of this board
That's because the topic here is the allegedly "stolen" election in California. That's why I'm speaking about California in particular. It's a topic I can address with some authority.
And yes, I have deduced who the "audience" is on this board. Many of the opinions expressed here seem to align more with QAnon and Infowars than even with Fox News. And it's also quite obvious that contrary opinions are not welcomed. I'm also on some Force Recon Facebook pages, and the opinions there are far more diverse and open-minded.
As for California and especially Orange County, have you ever wondered where the Republicans might have gone as apposed to just thinking they changed brands because of the latest President?
There's one former Republican -- myself -- who has not gone anywhere, and is not planning to. And I'm not the only one who's left the party. Our former Republican Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is another one who's no longer vocalizing support for the Republicans, or for the current president. There are plenty more. It's no mystery to me why Republican candidates were almost completely shut out in the last election. "Ballot harvesting" is a pretty lame excuse for what amounted to an almost complete rout in the last election.
[/QUOTE]
Yup ODNT...we need the high-tech equivalent of election ink.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 11:52
There has to be and is a better way to vote: securely, on-time, and within the voting window to meet the requirements of the constitution and amendments established by law...only some people are against that.
I think this latest voting experience has shown again that laws are easily broken and rules are only used if they support your side. Just ask a judge to render an unbiased decision.
I don’t doubt for a second that homeless people, felons and illegal aliens in California, Arizona, Florida, and Texas, filled out ballots with help from volunteers that “confirmed” their eligibility to vote. “Check this box here, sign your name, and we will fill out the rest for you and turn it in...at the appropriate time.”
There were certainly no complaints from you folks when Trump won the last election, solely via the Electoral College, even though Hilary garnered nearly 3 million more popular votes. If the results had skewed in the opposite direction, I'm sure you'd all be clamoring to eliminate the Electoral College process.
WarriorDiplomat
12-02-2018, 11:57
Well, there you go again! Apparently not, you haven’t learned your audience yet. You speak more about the people of So. California than the members of this board
That's because the topic here is the allegedly "stolen" election in California. That's why I'm speaking about California in particular. It's a topic I can address with some authority.
And yes, I have deduced who the "audience" is on this board. Many of the opinions expressed here seem to align more with QAnon and Infowars than even with Fox News. And it's also quite obvious that contrary opinions are not welcomed.
As for California and especially Orange County, have you ever wondered where the Republicans might have gone as apposed to just thinking they changed brands because of the latest President?
There's one former Republican -- myself -- who has not gone anywhere, and is not planning to. And I'm not the only one who's left the party. Our former Republican Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is another one who's no longer vocalizing support for the Republicans, or for the current president. There are plenty more. It's no mystery to me why Republican candidates were almost completely shut out in the last election. "Ballot harvesting" is a pretty lame excuse for what amounted to an almost complete rout in the last election.
[/QUOTE]
OK real slowly the republicans you mention are RINO Republican In Name Only but as most intelligent not led by Hollywood American's have seen the Republicans are no different than Democrats hence the IN NAME ONLY moniker
We and many Americans are seeing the corruption that both parties represent as indiscernible and both parties are taking us in the same direction....it also seems apparent that it is both parties that are the swamp with so much collusion their is no representation except for special interest in which seems predominantly social justice....Trumps sentiment echoes loudly with true patriots. Many feel the reason the RINO's attack Trump and that both parties keep blocking Trump is due to exposure of how dirty they really are.
I know it hard to see things with the drug addicted, drunk, entitled, pedophile Hollywood that surrounds you
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 11:58
Well, there you go again! Apparently not, you haven’t learned your audience yet. You speak more about the people of So. California than the members of this board
That's because the topic here is the allegedly "stolen" election in California. That's why I'm speaking about California in particular. It's a topic I can address with some authority.
And yes, I have deduced who the "audience" is on this board. Many of the opinions expressed here seem to align more with QAnon and Infowars than even with Fox News. And it's also quite obvious that contrary opinions are not welcomed.
As for California and especially Orange County, have you ever wondered where the Republicans might have gone as apposed to just thinking they changed brands because of the latest President?
There's one former Republican -- myself -- who has not gone anywhere, and is not planning to. And I'm not the only one who's left the party. Our former Republican Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, is another one who's no longer vocalizing support for the Republicans, or for the current president. There are plenty more. It's no mystery to me why Republican candidates were almost completely shut out in the last election. "Ballot harvesting" is a pretty lame excuse for what amounted to an almost complete rout in the last election.
[/QUOTE]
I like debating with you, I hope you don’t pack up your things and leave. I’m saddened that you group us together with conspiracy groups and alt-right organizations because that in and of itself shows you don’t know anything about us.
Arnold a Republican? And married to Maria Shriver er um “Kennedy” yeah, right! :D LOL (Someone wore the pants in that relationship and it wasn’t Conan in the bearskin loin cloth)
There were certainly no complaints from you folks when Trump won the last election, solely via the Electoral College, even though Hilary garnered nearly 3 million more popular votes. If the results had skewed in the opposite direction, I'm sure you'd all be clamoring to eliminate the Electoral College process.
And, you’d be incorrect in that assumption.
But, it is interesting to read the “Hollywood” perspective straight from the horse’s mouth.
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 12:00
There were certainly no complaints from you folks when Trump won the last election, solely via the Electoral College, even though Hilary garnered nearly 3 million more popular votes. If the results had skewed in the opposite direction, I'm sure you'd all be clamoring to eliminate the Electoral College process.
What part of constitutional voting laws are you confused about?
If Hillary had won, she’d be the president simple as that...we don’t elect people to be president by popular vote.
...... "Ballot harvesting" is a pretty lame excuse for what amounted to an almost complete rout in the last election......
If this last election was a rout what were Obama's numbers in his first midterm election and what would you call it.
Hint - he lost 60 House seats and 6 Senate seats. So that was a _________?
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:09
Arnold a Republican? And married to Maria Shriver er um “Kennedy” yeah, right! :D LOL (Someone wore the pants in that relationship and it wasn’t Conan in the bearskin loin cloth)[/QUOTE]
It is possible for a husband and wife to have different political affiliations. The most visible example is James Carville and Mary Matalan.
Golf1echo
12-02-2018, 12:09
Where did they go?
https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/article32679753.html
This is not to mention the business exodus or the previous decades. Californians have flooded into AZ,NV,Colo,WY,OR,WA,MT and many other areas since at least the 70’s...the issue is much bigger than the people of SCali.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:11
If this last election was a rout what were Obama's numbers in his first midterm election and what would you call it.
Hint - he lost 60 House seats and 6 Senate seats. So that was a _________?
I remember Obama's reaction to that midterm. His words (as I recall them) were "We got shellacked." No chance of hearing that kind of honest humility from Trump.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:16
Where did they go?
https://www.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/article32679753.html
This is not to mention the business exodus or the previous decades. Californians have flooded into AZ,NV,Colo,WY,OR,WA,MT and many other areas since at least the 70’s...the issue is much bigger than the people of SCali.
That's not due to politics; it's all about housing prices. California has the most expensive real estate in the nation. People have been fleeing to states that have affordable homes, selling their small houses here in California and using the proceeds to buy mansions in other states. That what it's all about.
I remember Obama's reaction to that midterm. His words (as I recall them) were "We got shellacked." No chance of hearing that kind of honest humility from Trump.
So he lost 60 and 6 - but us losing 40 was a rout?
WarriorDiplomat
12-02-2018, 12:18
There were certainly no complaints from you folks when Trump won the last election, solely via the Electoral College, even though Hilary garnered nearly 3 million more popular votes. If the results had skewed in the opposite direction, I'm sure you'd all be clamoring to eliminate the Electoral College process.
No we would feel disappointment in the systematic brainwashing of mainstream media being allowed to be so skewed and dominating 90% of the media furthermore the fact that Trump won the electoral college just shows that American patriots are clearly resilient to the bombardment.
The conditioning of the American people on mainstream entertainment to accept the SJW lefts agenda is fairly obvious for example the last 3 Star Wars movies has imposed a feminist superiority mantra in the form of a storyline that subliminally imposes diversity and feminism.
Homosexuality and Diversity agendas are so predominant in every venue it is sickening most importantly with children's programming in which trusting parents are so busy trying to make it they have little time to teach their children which today is more like damage control....the psychological assault on the minds of defenseless children with thinly veiled integration and LGBTQ ideas should be against the law
Only liberal leftists believe themselves to be so morally elite that they feel they have the right to influence and shape the minds of our children because they feel the ends justifies the means to interfere with the rights of parents to say no
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 12:22
That's not due to politics; it's all about housing prices. California has the most expensive real estate in the nation. People have been fleeing to states that have affordable homes, selling their small houses here in California and using the proceeds to buy mansions in other states. That what it's all about.
Que?
Not everything is about politics but most things are about money, and money and taxes drive personal decisions. As one goes down and the other up (due to employment opportunities and politics) people regardless of political affiliations make those decisions with their feet.
Why move to Seattle which does have the highest housing costs in the nations out side New York City if it’s about leaving high housing costs in California?
There has to be and is a better way to vote: securely, on-time, and within the voting window to meet the requirements of the constitution and amendments established by law
Ever seen a re-count in the Mega Millions Lottery?
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:25
I like debating with you, I hope you don’t pack up your things and leave. I’m saddened that you group us together with conspiracy groups and alt-right organizations because that in and of itself shows you don’t know anything about us.
[/QUOTE]
I've read some wacko opinions on this forum. Remember the so-called "MAGA Bomber"? There were a few folks on this site who initially surmised that the perpetrator was a left-wing loony, who was sending up a "false flag" to throw off the mid-term elections. Wrong. It was a genuine right-wing loony, with MAGA stickers pasted all over his van. Of course Rush Limbaugh and Infowars were advancing the same theory. Even the ever-sensible Lou Dobbs.
I remember Obama's reaction to that midterm. His words (as I recall them) were "We got shellacked." No chance of hearing that kind of honest humility from Trump.
True, Trump lacks humility - but Obama lacked the best interest of the American people.
They are both flawed - but one of those men is an America-first self-promoter the other is a Globalist/Stateist self-promoter.
This is a snapshot illustration of the great divide in America today.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:30
I like debating with you, I hope you don’t pack up your things and leave.
I'm not quite ready to "jump right out and count to four." There are some very bright folks on this forum, and I find it worthwhile to hear and consider their well-expressed opinions, even if they're contrary to mine.
...I've read some wacko opinions on this forum. ....
And you've posted your own wacko opinions also.
Old Dog New Trick
12-02-2018, 12:34
I like debating with you, I hope you don’t pack up your things and leave. I’m saddened that you group us together with conspiracy groups and alt-right organizations because that in and of itself shows you don’t know anything about us.
I've read some wacko opinions on this forum. Remember the so-called "MAGA Bomber"? There were a few folks on this site who initially surmised that the perpetrator was a left-wing loony, who was sending up a "false flag" to throw off the mid-term elections. Wrong. It was a genuine right-wing loony, with MAGA stickers pasted all over his van. Of course Rush Limbaugh and Infowars were advancing the same theory. Even the ever-sensible Lou Dobbs.
He was a left wing looney! He voted for Obama twice and was a life long Democrat before going couckoo over coco puffs and “switching” party affiliations to become enamored over Trump.
Should we label you a left wing looney for voting against your life long party? (Didn’t think so, but if you go sending people fake bombs for attention don’t think we will treat you any differently.)
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:34
And you've posted your own wacko opinions also.
Solely a matter of opinion. But isn't that what makes America great? You couldn't do that in Soviet Russia, or present-day Venezuela.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 12:38
Should we label you a left wing looney for voting against your life long party? (Didn’t think so, but if you go sending people fake bombs for attention don’t think we will treat you any differently.)
I have friends who are life-long Democrats, even some that label themselves as "Progressives," who would get a good laugh if someone tried to label me a "left wing loony."
When a 14-point Republican lead disappears
By Shawn Steel - - Tuesday, November 27, 2018
ANALYSIS/OPINION:
Young Kim was poised to become the first Korean-American woman elected to Congress.
Her 14-point lead was the lone bright spot on an otherwise dismal night for Orange County Republicans. But, over the past week, Republicans have watched the first-generation immigrant’s lead evaporate. With thousands of provisional ballots left to count, her commanding lead is now underwater. She lost one week after the election.
There’s no evidence of ballot box shenanigans. No need. Democrats know it’s easier to erode voter integrity laws than to stuff ballot boxes.
How does a 14-point Republican lead disappear? Merciless and unsparing, California Democrats have systematically undermined California’s already-weak voter protection laws to guarantee permanent one-party rule.
Non-Citizen Voting: California has expanded voter eligibility — with some communities granting illegal immigrants the right to vote. In 2016, San Francisco approved a measure that allows “people in the country illegally and other noncitizens the right to vote in a local election,” according to the Associated Press. This year, San Francisco spent $310,000 in tax dollars to register 49 non-citizens to vote in a school board election.
Inmate Voting: Not to be outdone, neighboring Alameda County organized taxpayer-funded voter registration drives in county jails to register a record number of inmates. California law allows convicted criminals in county jails, on probation, on mandatory supervision, on post-release community supervision, or on federal supervised release to vote. Just about the only criminals barred from voting in California are felons in prison or on parole.
Felon Voting: Even California felons have been enfranchised, a side effect of California’s radical criminal justice experiments. By downgrading numerous crimes from felonies to misdemeanors, Proposition 47 has enfranchised tens of thousands of convicted criminals previously barred from voting while on parole. The state’s prisoner early release program has also expanded the voter rolls. In 2015, 60,000 convicted felons officially regained their voting rights after the state refused to appeal a lower-court decision that would have denied them the right to vote.
Motor Voter Fraud: Every person in California that interacts with the Department of Motor Vehicles is automatically registered to vote. This has predictably led to tens of thousands cases of voter registration problems. The state’s Motor Voter program has come under fire for double registering as many as 77,000 people and registering as many as 1,500 ineligible voters. The state’s bipartisan oversight agency expressed concerns about “serious problems with ensuring that the New Motor Voter Program works as intended and promised.” In October, the Little Hoover Commission called for an independent audit of the program and warned that “voter confidence in a fair and legitimate electoral process will be undermined, if not shattered.”
16-and-17 Year-Old Pre-Registration: This cycle also marked the beginning of California’s pre-voter registration program for 16- and 17-year-olds. Of course, if every voter is automatically registered through the Motor Voter program, why would anyone need to pre-register? Pre-registration is a thinly-veiled effort to capture voters while they’re young and more likely to identify as liberal Democrats. Of the nearly 89,000 minors that participated in the program, only 10 percent registered as Republicans.
Absentee Ballots Automatically Mailed to Every Voter: In 2016, California approved a new law that allows counties to mail every voter an absentee ballot. This election, every voter in Madera, Napa, Nevada, Sacramento and San Mateo counties received an absentee ballot — whether they requested one or not. Beginning in 2020, every county in California except one will be allowed to follow suit. Outrageously, Democrats carved out a special exception for Los Angeles County, where they maintain a significant advantage in voter registration numbers. In just four years, the number of absentee ballots distributed in California has increased by 44 percent. “Nearly 13 million voters have received a ballot in the mail, compared to just 9 million in the last gubernatorial election in 2014,” notes Paul Mitchell, vice president of Political Data Inc.
Ballot Harvesting: Is illegal in most states. But not California. As if it wasn’t enough for every person to be automatically registered to vote and receive a ballot, Democrats have made it easier for their campaign operatives to collect those absentee ballot. Also in 2016, state lawmakers eliminated the ballot protection law that enabled only a trusted family member to return another voter’s ballot. Assembly Bill 1921 now allows anyone to return an absentee ballot. The law has encouraged campaign operatives to engage in coercive tactics. One Democrat voter described coercive intimidation tactics employed by a Democrat campaign in a 2017 special election, leading even the liberal Los Angeles Times editorial board to criticize the law.
Conditional Ballots: California has effectively adopted same-day voter registration with the introduction of “conditional voting.” This election cycle, voters who missed the 15-day voter registration deadline could request to cast a conditional ballot.
Ballots Accepted Up to Week After Election Day: In California, voting doesn’t stop on Election Day. Absentee ballots need only be postmarked by Election Day, with ballots counted that arrive up to three days late. If ballots are sent to the wrong county, the ballot is valid for an additional four days. As Mr. Mitchell points out, “That means you literally have seven days after an election where a county could still be receiving legitimate ballots.”
Second Chance for Rejected Ballots: Just 50 days before the election, Democrats snuck in one more change to the state’s absentee voting laws. In September, Gov. Jerry Brown signed into law Senate Bill 759, which requires elections officials to notify every voter whose ballot was rejected due to a mismatched signature.
This election, a 14-point lead wasn’t enough for a Republican victory. By 2020, a 20-point lead on Election Night won’t be safe.
• Shawn Steel, a former California Republican Party chair, is California’s committeeman for the Republican National Committee.
Link: WT (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/27/no-one-needs-voter-fraud-when-all-the-rules-are-ch/)
Golf1echo
12-02-2018, 12:40
That's not due to politics; it's all about housing prices. California has the most expensive real estate in the nation. People have been fleeing to states that have affordable homes, selling their small houses here in California and using the proceeds to buy mansions in other states. That what it's all about.
Do you really believe it’s not about politics?
A bit rhetorical, tactics are clear to see.
rsdengler
12-02-2018, 12:44
LOL...Thanks guys, please carry on....makes my boring Sunday so enjoyable..now pass the popcorn:munchin
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 13:05
Do you really believe it’s not about politics?
Trust me, it's all about real estate prices and affordable housing. I base my opinions on folks I've known personally who have moved out of state, or who are planning to move. I read the local newspapers every day, and this has been a hot topic here in California. I haven't personally known one person who's left the state for political reasons, although I imagine they're not non-existent.
As for businesses, the ones that I know about have moved their operations to Mexico, or to China, not because of high taxes in California, but because the labor is cheaper in foreign countries, and there are less health and safety regulations. Despite all that, California still remains the fifth largest economy in the world, just ahead of the UK (but you've already heard me crow about that).
From my own personal experience, it's been decades since I shot a movie in California. Instead I've been filming in (or scouting) countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Mexico, Serbia, and even Canada, simply because the labor is cheaper and there are generally less regulations.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 13:11
LOL...Thanks guys, please carry on....makes my boring Sunday so enjoyable..now pass the popcorn:munchin
Providing entertainment has been my mission in life for many years now. :cool:
From my own personal experience, it's been decades since I shot a movie in California. Instead I've been filming in (or scouting) countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Mexico, Serbia, and even Canada, simply because the labor is cheaper and there are generally less regulations.
Imagine a California with a lower tax regime, lower costs to do business, and a better regulatory environment...I imagine those who miss out on jobs in California...lost to “countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Mexico, Serbia, and even Canada” do.
Your story is a microcosm of why America-first resonates with so many and on so many levels.
The general mood throughout California lately is anti-Republicans and anti-Trump, and that's why the Republicans lost all those congressional seats. That's why the Republican Party in California is not quite dead yet, but currently on life support. Simple as that.
I disagree. I was born and raised in California and I still have family and friends there. They are, to a single one, diehard Republicans. The Republicans are there, as evidenced by the graphic below. They comprise a huge amount of the state.
The problem with your opinion is that it has been formed by living and working in one of the few bastions of Democratic-run sesspools. You live in a toxic, anti-American atmosphere and get your news from the teat of an angry liberal press in the midst of a two-year temper-tantrum. You and your Dem friends drink the poisonous pablum of the press without question.
No, Republicans are not dying off in California. They are there in the majority of the state in places were people still work for an honest living, hold dear American values, breathe fresh air, drink clean water, and enjoy life outside the vast traffic-clogged, concrete-covered, crime-ridden cities that Democrats control in such numbers that they don't even realize they're living in excrement of their own making. They can't smell the shit.
Obviously, you can't either.
S.
Providing entertainment has been my mission in life for many years now. :cool:
Solely a matter of opinion.........................
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 14:35
I disagree. I was born and raised in California and I still have family and friends there. They are, to a single one, diehard Republicans. The Republicans are there, as evidenced by the graphic below. They comprise a huge amount of the state.
The problem with your opinion is that it has been formed by living and working in one of the few bastions of Democratic-run sesspools. You live in a toxic, anti-American atmosphere and get your news from the teat of an angry liberal press in the midst of a two-year temper-tantrum. You and your Dem friends drink the poisonous pablum of the press without question.
No, Republicans are not dying off in California. They are there in the majority of the state in places were people still work for an honest living, hold dear American values, breathe fresh air, drink clean water, and enjoy life outside the vast traffic-clogged, concrete-covered, crime-ridden cities that Democrats control in such numbers that they don't even realize they're living in excrement of their own making. They can't smell the shit.
Obviously, you can't either.
S.
Wow, that was quite the epic rant. Are you feeling better now, after getting all that off your chest?
And just where do you get your very own "poisonous pablum of the press" from? Infowars? Fox? From other outlets of the angry, bitter, conspiracy-spewing alt-right (or even far right) press?
This is America, a nation with a multitude of opinions. That's the kind of nation that the Founding Fathers envisioned it to be. The fact that I'm on this forum exchanging opinions with folks who don't necessarily hold the same views as mine, certainly belies your accusation about drinking the so-called "poisonous pablum" without question.
WarriorDiplomat
12-02-2018, 15:28
Wow, that was quite the epic rant. Are you feeling better now, after getting all that off your chest?
And just where do you get your very own "poisonous pablum of the press" from? Infowars? Fox? From other outlets of the angry, bitter, conspiracy-spewing alt-right (or even far right) press?
This is America, a nation with a multitude of opinions. That's the kind of nation that the Founding Fathers envisioned it to be. The fact that I'm on this forum exchanging opinions with folks who don't necessarily hold the same views as mine, certainly belies your accusation about drinking the so-called "poisonous pablum" without question.
You should share this concept with the young Democrats ANTIFA, BLM etc.....around the country they are very anti-exchange of ideas and opinion in a fruitful debate
I will say that the reason that freedom must be refreshed from time to time with the blood if patriots is because their are and were then irrational people who refuse evidence and truth and would force the rest of us to accept their visions...
Wow, that was quite the epic rant. Are you feeling better now, after getting all that off your chest?
She's absolutely right. Like I said earlier, I first worked in Hollywood (Culver City actually) when I move to L.A in 1976. I was a PA on my first film and my first assignment was to babysit a relatively famous punk rocker who was a strong supporter of Gov. Reagan in his first presidential run. See, he didn't conform to the norm and had to be watched, way back in 1976.
You said that the people are leaving because of housing costs, not politics. One effects the other. We left because the politics had become unbearable. And it's not just left and right disagreements or dinner table arguments but when 60% of the people of The State of California vote against same-sex marriage but that doesn't count because the people of the state are too stupid and the vote is overturned. More than 60% of CA "likely" voters are against the high-speed rail but the newspapers you read everyday only poll Bay Area and LA registered voters and come up with 70% approval figures.
The politics drive up housing costs, utility costs, fuel prices, sales taxes, and these add up to a much higher cost of living. Pot holes in the freeways go unrepaired increasing maintenance costs on commercial and personal vehicles. The Left pushes for "renewable" energy and electric automobiles while shutting down current power plants and fighting against nuclear power. Environmentalists fight against forest management and dam building leading to forest and wild fires and drought. When the rains comes the water runs freely down the denuded hillsides to the ocean, destroying private property in their paths. Then the taxpayers are handed the bill once again.
Personally, I'm mad at Trump for sending money to CA after the fires. It's the hell you've built so I want you to suffer the consequences.
Badger52
12-02-2018, 15:35
When a 14-point Republican lead disappearsWell, easy to see how that 11th hour + 59 minute election day "epiphany" can occur that gets all those votes rolling in for days or weeks after that are largely for Democrat candidates. It's in their rules, so if it goes it counts.
Maybe the second clause of Article I, Sec. 4 needs to be re-looked, since the 17th Amendment obviated the last portion of it. :eek: "But... disenfranchisement!"
WarriorDiplomat
12-02-2018, 15:38
It is possible for a husband and wife to have different political affiliations. The most visible example is James Carville and Mary Matalan.[/QUOTE]
And this is an example of the swamp we want drained the parties are so diametrically opposed in their visions and interpretations of the Constitution on the surface that this should be an incompatible relationship but this is nothing but proof of how similar they are in reality and the reason Trump is President
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 15:54
You should share this concept with the young Democrats ANTIFA, BLM etc.....around the country they are very anti-exchange of ideas and opinion in a fruitful debate
I do get into it with my liberal friends (and some of their ultra liberal friends) on Facebook on a regular basis. We had some epic exchanges about Justice Kavanaugh a while back. But I don't interface at all with ANTIFA or BLM, and prefer not the get down in the gutter with the likes of them.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 16:37
You said that the people are leaving because of housing costs, not politics. One effects the other. We left because the politics had become unbearable. And it's not just left and right disagreements or dinner table arguments but when 60% of the people of The State of California vote against same-sex marriage but that doesn't count because the people of the state are too stupid and the vote is overturned. More than 60% of CA "likely" voters are against the high-speed rail but the newspapers you read everyday only poll Bay Area and LA registered voters and come up with 70% approval figures.
Personally, I'm all for High Speed Rail in California. HSR is ubiquitous throughout China; they have the most extensive network anywhere on the planet, and it's an impressive sight to see. Europe has their efficient rail networks as well, but not nearly as impressive as the Chinese system.
I speak from some personal experience; I've ridden the trains in both China and in Europe. While zooming along at 100+ miles per hour (sometimes much more) one can't help but wonder: "why can't we do this back home?" How is it that Americans were able to send men to the moon, but can't build a decent high-speed rail network back on earth? The major difference between the USA and China is that when the Chinese government tells you to move out of the path of a rail project, people know better than to disagree. They move their asses, right away, no arguments, no bullshit. In the USA, people sue, and hold up these projects for decades.
And I once again must disagree with your assessment about housing costs in California, and the reasons that people are moving out of state. Which brings me back to China and the Chinese. They're buying up California real estate like voracious termites eating their way through an old house. That's one of the main reasons (if not reason #1) that housing costs are escalating so rapidly over here. Foreigners have heard that the streets in California are paved with gold, and they've been buying up everything in sight, because they know that this is still the best real estate value in the world. Not just Chinese, but Russians, Armenians, Israelis, Persians, Saudi's, Japanese, etc., you name it.
Middle class Americans just can't compete with folks who show up at the realtor's office with briefcases full of cash. And so these ordinary "hard-working" middle-income Americans are forced to look elsewhere for affordable housing. Some folks might paper over the truth by using "politics" as an excuse, but it's always about the money first. Politics doesn't even run a close second place. And even if politics was the main motivator, the secondary motivator -- the real "sweetener" -- would be that they can get a lot more bang for their bucks in Arizona, Oregon, or Idaho.
Personally, I'm all for High Speed Rail in California. .....
A little cold water splashed on your dreams. You can say it's just an opinion piece but the article has links that adds facts to it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2018/04/19/the-top-four-reasons-california-is-unsustainable/#754057d73a23
The major difference between the USA and China is that when the Chinese government tells you to move out of the path of a rail project, people know better than to disagree. They move their asses, right away, no arguments, no bullshit. In the USA, people sue, and hold up these projects for decades.
I guess it’s easier in an authoritarian state...private property rights be damned !
The irony is apparently limitless...you live in a state with enormous regulation and seem to sing the praises of China with essentially little environmental concerns or respect for private property rights.
How very Progressive...in an Algore sort of way...
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 17:09
I guess it’s easier in an authoritarian state...private property rights be damned !
The irony is apparently limitless...you live in a state with enormous regulation and seem to sing the praises of China with essentially little environmental concerns or respect for private property rights.
How very Progressive...in an Algore sort of way...
I'm hardly "singing the praises of China." We have "Eminent Domain" in our country as well, but we've been reluctant to put it to use lately, even when it serves the common good. Many acres of private land were seized (and compensated for) when the L.A. Freeway system was built. Oftentimes lawsuits are the bane of progress in the USA, and in California especially.
Wow, that was quite the epic rant. Are you feeling better now, after getting all that off your chest?
And just where do you get your very own "poisonous pablum of the press" from? Infowars? Fox? From other outlets of the angry, bitter, conspiracy-spewing alt-right (or even far right) press?
This is America, a nation with a multitude of opinions. That's the kind of nation that the Founding Fathers envisioned it to be. The fact that I'm on this forum exchanging opinions with folks who don't necessarily hold the same views as mine, certainly belies your accusation about drinking the so-called "poisonous pablum" without question.
I applaud your civil discourse here where you are obviously in the minority.
To answer your question: I don't read extreme right news, wear tinfoil hats, or even turn on the TV. I'm about as center of center as you can get, a member of the silent minority that has stood by and watched my country destroyed by eight years of democratic leadership. In those eight years, my family's situation has gone from thriving to barely getting by. I've stood by while we've been called racists for disagreeing with a black president. I didn't give a hoot what color he claimed to be, I didn't like his policies. I stood by while we were called homophobic and misogynistic. I've stood by while men like my sons are labeled evil just for being white and male. The left is very good at name-calling but very poor at actually thinking logically. It's good at spewing hate toward those who present an alternative world-view while claiming to be champions of peace. Two years into a different presidency and all that hate has ramped to fever pitch so that the ends justify the means and the name calling has turned to violence, underhanded illegal tactics, smear campaigns, harassment, and more. Stealing votes legally is just one more of those underhanded activities.
So yeah. I'm angry and you got the backblast.
That said, you have a clever way of tossing us red herrings, rather than rebutting the statements we present.
My statement, lost in the rant, was that California contains more Republicans than the insulated, myopic left, ensconced in their left-coast enclaves, realizes. Republicans are not dying off.
S.
I'm hardly "singing the praises of China." We have "Eminent Domain" in our country as well, but we've been reluctant to put it to use lately, even when it serves the common good. Many acres of private land were seized (and compensated for) when the L.A. Freeway system was built. Oftentimes lawsuits are the bane of progress in the USA, and in California especially.
I’m with you on the the inefficiency and wastefulness of much litigation.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 17:38
I applaud your civil discourse here where you are obviously in the minority.
My statement, lost in the rant, was that California contains more Republicans than the insulated, myopic left, ensconced in their left-coast enclaves, realizes. Republicans are not dying off.
S.
Not dying off, but many of us are hibernating while we wait for a return of the responsible Republican leadership we saw exhibited by the likes of Reagan, Bush (both of them), Pete Wilson, John McCain, and even "Governator" Arnold Schwarzenegger.
hardcorps
12-02-2018, 18:07
That said, you have a clever way of tossing us red herrings, rather than rebutting the statements we present.
S.
This is not a trial, nor an interrogation. I'm under no obligation to rebut or even answer any statement or question that's presented here. And who's this "us" and "we" that you're referring to? We're all just individuals on an Internet forum, correct? I was not under the impression that there was some kind of a Star Chamber running the show, other than the Administrators. And they're not demanding answers, just decorum.
As I've mentioned earlier, I've found that it's futile to rebut people with certain fixed beliefs or far-out theories, and I'd simply prefer to not go back and forth with these folks. For example, if a flat-earther or an anti-vaxxer asks me a question or makes a wrongheaded assertion about their particular fixation, I'd prefer to not even make an attempt to rebut them. But if someone wants to assert that the Democrats "stole" the last elections in California, or wants to take cheap shots at John McCain, count me in.
This is not a trial, nor an interrogation. I'm under no obligation to rebut or even answer any statement or question that's presented here.
.
No, you don't.
But this isn't your playground. If you don't want to converse but just spew your point of view you can go play somewhere else.
rsdengler
12-03-2018, 12:21
This is not a trial, nor an interrogation. I'm under no obligation to rebut or even answer any statement or question that's presented here.
No, you don't.
But this isn't your playground. If you don't want to converse but just spew your point of view you can go play somewhere else.
Thanks Pete...that guy was an arrogant asshole....:o
Thanks Pete...that guy was an arrogant asshole....:o
You got that right!
bblhead672
12-03-2018, 17:19
Thanks Pete...that guy was an arrogant asshole....:o
Yep, the poster boy for every left wing talking point and cliche.
He did keep me amused while I wondered how far he would go before getting banned.
rsdengler
12-04-2018, 06:01
Yep, the poster boy for every left wing talking point and cliche.
He did keep me amused while I wondered how far he would go before getting banned.
LOL....poster boy for "Ass Clown"...:D
WarriorDiplomat
12-05-2018, 19:18
He is probably back to his world of make believe and the sick world of Sodom the Hollywood elite where boys can be girls and girls can be boys, pedophilia and homosexual activities, cocaine fueled sex orgies at night and health food shakes and yoga during the day, wives and husbands are for social status and the church of scientology seems to reign supreme along side Jewish temples, anyone who lives in this world no doubt saw Hillary as one of theirs where crazy is normal, for all we know he sat on the "casting couch" as well in exchange for work.
Being a liberal he will probably say he was booted because he was a liberal.
Never occur to him that it was because of his attitude and lack of ability to debate and defend his opinions.
...it was because of his attitude and lack of ability to debate and defend his opinions.
Thats crazy talk - leftists have inclusive, diverse, and enlightened life views that are simply outside the realm of understanding for the common man.
rsdengler
12-07-2018, 10:37
Thats crazy talk - leftists have inclusive, diverse, and enlightened life views that are simply outside the realm of understanding for the common man.
Ha......Another Box-ism....love it.....:D
Badger52
12-07-2018, 12:11
Thats crazy talk - leftists have inclusive, diverse, and enlightened life views that are simply outside the realm of understanding for the common man.Yeah, like an infamous State Dep't. spokesflake said, it's "far too nuanced" for this simple kulak.