View Full Version : John McCain Passes
... Dead at 81
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-dead-at-81.amp.html
WarriorDiplomat
08-25-2018, 22:57
... Dead at 81
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/25/john-mccain-dead-at-81.amp.html
Thank you for your service.but good riddance with republicans like you who needed leftist liberals as swamp critters destroying the country
Thank you for your service.but good riddance with republicans like you who needed leftist liberals as swamp critters destroying the country
+1
Hopefully his seat will be filled with a true conservative. Figured I wouldn't make much comment about him since Mamma said, "if you can't say something good, say nothing at all" :D
Hopefully his seat will be filled with a true conservative. Figured I wouldn't make much comment about him since Mamma said, "if you can't say something good, say nothing at all" :D
Buzz here is that the Governor is going to appoint Cindy to the seat until a special election. I hope that that was just to ease McCain's mind that his RINO ways would continue after his death. The Gov is up for reelection.
Unfortunately, I can't honestly thank him for his service. It was expected, given the family history, and was largely less than honorable. Whatever he did or didn't do as a POW must be weighed by his father's position at the time. In my life, his name had its first red flag at the Marine EM Club at Camp Swachb, Okinawa, in 1968 and never improved.
He will not be missed.
RIP "warrior"
End of subject...
The Reaper
08-26-2018, 12:05
Buzz here is that the Governor is going to appoint Cindy to the seat until a special election.
Oh shit.
He might as well pic a Dim for the seat.
Like father, like daughter.
RIP.
TR
Like father, like daughter.
RIP.
TR
Wife. TS is closer to the source intel, though. I hope it's wrong.
I agree, though, he should Rest in Peace now. His years in captivity were Hell enough.
WarriorDiplomat
08-26-2018, 19:21
Wife. TS is closer to the source intel, though. I hope it's wrong.
I agree, though, he should Rest in Peace now. His years in captivity were Hell enough.
5 years in the Hanoi Hilton does not excuse his actions against this country or the families of those who never returned and left behind....shame on his voter base and shame on those who voted because he had been a POW
His entire life is that of privilege and self serving narcissism from the USS Forrestal with his hotshot crap to his not accepting early release from Vietnam which by the way he would have been more than likely court marshalled for accepting early release since his release would have seen him as accepting favor from the enemy....I have no doubt he fully understood this being trained in SERE and the code of conduct
5 years in the Hanoi Hilton does not excuse his actions against this country or the families of those who never returned and left behind....shame on his voter base and shame on those who voted because he had been a POW
Again, no argument from me:
Unfortunately, I can't honestly thank him for his service. It was expected, given the family history, and was largely less than honorable. Whatever he did or didn't do as a POW must be weighed by his father's position at the time. In my life, his name had its first red flag at the Marine EM Club at Camp Swachb, Okinawa, in 1968 and never improved.
He will not be missed.
Doesn't rule out the pain he suffered during those years.
bblhead672
08-27-2018, 14:40
I can thank him for whatever he did honorably while serving and in captivity.
However, not for the betrayals beyond that. Benedict Arnold was once honorable, then he wasn't.
SouthernDZ
08-27-2018, 15:18
I can thank him for whatever he did honorably while serving and in captivity. However, not for the betrayals beyond that. Benedict Arnold was once honorable, then he wasn't.
+1
I don't know if he was responsible for all or much of what occurred aboard the USS Forrestal or not. Much of this is lost to history and considerable political influence; however, many who knew him recognized that he was a frat boy pretending to be a Naval Officer and Gentleman. I know I won't miss his voice and vote in the U.S. Senate.
Ret10Echo
08-27-2018, 15:38
Of the 591 from Operation Homecoming... how many have passed?
cat in the hat
08-27-2018, 17:32
he would have been more than likely court marshalled for accepting early release since his release would have seen him as accepting favor from the enemy
Maybe he could have claimed to have bine spurs that needed attention from an American doctor as an excuse to take early parole.
He deserves to rest now.
I have no opinion on this subject...:rolleyes:
Holly
Quartz_MJC
08-28-2018, 11:53
RIP. Thanks for your military service not so much for political service. May your family fin comfort.
mark46th
08-29-2018, 08:21
Here's something to think about... Suppose he had run for president again in 2012 and won, then re-electied in 2016. With his passing, Sarah Palin would now be president...
So just who is the small, petty one in all this? Trump or McCain?
Appears Gov. Palin has not been invited to any of the services or the funeral.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/sarah-palin-not-invited-to-john-mccain-memorial-funeral-services-report/
She's the only reason he did as well as he did in that election. He then stabbed in in the back. Her response? Endorse him in his next election.
Here's something to think about... Suppose he had run for president again in 2012 and won, then re-electied in 2016. With his passing, Sarah Palin would now be president...
Aaannndddd she would still be a much better POTUS than Killery or uncle Joe.
Aaannndddd she would still be a much better POTUS than Killery or uncle Joe.
That rates a HUGE +1
RIP. Thanks for your military service not so much for political service. May your family fin comfort.
Second the motion.
McCain passing brings up this issue again. What happened to the ones left behind. I. work at SERE with CSM Dan Pitzer and he always thought that the government screwed them over. Here is an interesting read. Look at they hyperlinks for more interesting information. http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/
The question I have is, does JPAC use Forensic Anthropology to determine the approximate age of death and then extrapolate the approximate date of death. Now that might be some information to have.
We should all live our lives as if the words spoken and the tears shed at our funeral will be true and honest reflections of who we were in life. We should be worthy of those words and tears because of how we lived.
Old Dog New Trick
09-01-2018, 10:31
(I have so tried to stay away from this thread)
The “Maverick” should be remembered for many things; being honorable should not be one of them.
Sen. John McCain (D/RINO) the epitome of a privileged life! (With one exception - that so many others have experienced in war without the stardom or even acknowledgment of their sacrifice.)
In life and in death your derision and contempt are clear examples of the many definitions of ‘Maverick’ the best synonym being: enfant terrible!
McCain passing brings up this issue again. What happened to the ones left behind. I. work at SERE with CSM Dan Pitzer and he always thought that the government screwed them over. Here is an interesting read. Look at they hyperlinks for more interesting information. http://www.unz.com/article/mccain-and-the-pow-cover-up/
The question I have is, does JPAC use Forensic Anthropology to determine the approximate age of death and then extrapolate the approximate date of death. Now that might be some information to have.
They do use DNA tests and all the CSI forensics from the TV, but I suspect that age is not one of the tests.
I had a 2 hr discussion with the JPAC NCOIC when my uncle was recovered from Tarawa in the South Pacific. The documentation was presented on a cd with 21 reports, totaling some 250 pages.
One major problem with recoveries in sub-tropics is the decomposition due to climate as it affects bio mater. The moulds and bacteria destroy a lot of useable material.
In my uncle's case, they used a tooth for DNA and cross-referenced his dental records to the recovered jaw bone.
Golf1echo
09-01-2018, 12:42
(I have so tried to stay away from this thread)
The “Maverick” should be remembered for many things; being honorable should not be one of them.
Sen. John McCain (D/RINO) the epitome of a privileged life! (With one exception - that so many others have experienced in war without the stardom or even acknowledgment of their sacrifice.)
In life and in death your derision and contempt are clear examples of the many definitions of ‘Maverick’ the best synonym being: enfant terrible!
I have tried as well but let's see, how long has this circle jerk been going on... Over a year now? The players in this matter tell you all you need to know. None of them were concerned about my position and the constant yammering has grown very tiresome. So I'll share a comment that stood out, a quote from Mark Twain:
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it. "
hardcorps
09-01-2018, 14:12
Sen. John McCain (D/RINO) the epitome of a privileged life!
Here's a better definition of "privileged." Growing up in your daddy's penthouse in NYC, and getting the crooked family doctor to tell the draft board you can't serve in the military (during the height of the Vietnam War) because you have "bone spurs." Five deferments, and not one day of service. When I was going through Boot Camp in 1969, my drill instructors would have referred to someone like this as a "slimy, draft dodgin' civilian puke." Yours would have said the same, or worse.
Old Dog New Trick
09-01-2018, 14:26
Here's a better definition of "privileged." Growing up in your daddy's penthouse in NYC, and getting the crooked family doctor to tell the draft board you can't serve in the military (during the height of the Vietnam War) because you have "bone spurs." Five deferments, and not one day of service. When I was going through Boot Camp in 1969, my drill instructors would have referred to someone like this as a "slimy, draft dodgin' civilian puke." Yours would have said the same, or worse.
The thread title is about John S. McCain III, not about Donald Trump (POTUS). Regardless of what you, your drill sergeant had to say, or Trumps doctor at the time of the Vietnam war...having a valid excuse to stay in school, avoid the draft or join the Air National Guard was considered a good thing.
Maybe the others who rose to the Office of POTUS since Eisenhower (Gen-Ret) should have taken a page from McCain or Kerry whom both have questionable service records.
I would really appreciate your in-depth knowledge on this matter. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder instead of a spur in your foot.
Here's a better definition of "privileged." ....
Privileged?
Like joining the board in June, making two posts and neither of them in the proper place?
You must think you're some kind of special.
Oh, by the way, you feel the same way about Clinton? Was he your President?
Don't answer that before you put the proper post in the proper place - then you can answer.
hardcorps
09-01-2018, 14:44
Privileged?
Like joining the board in June, making two posts and neither of them in the proper place?
You must think you're some kind of special.
Oh, by the way, you feel the same way about Clinton? Was he your President?
Don't answer that before you put the proper post in the proper place - then you can answer.
I responded to your post in the same place where you first posted it, immediately following yours. What's wrong about that? And yes, I did feel the same way about Clinton, and still do. And if I'm responding to a comment made about McCain, where else would I make my comment, except under "John McCain Passes"?
Why not respond to my comment, instead of taking pot shots at me personally?
Old Dog New Trick
09-01-2018, 15:16
hardcorps, fill out your introduction in the thread titled “Introductions” according to the rules. Then come back and articulate your opinion with supporting facts.
I responded to your post in the same place where you first posted it, immediately following yours. What's wrong about that? And yes, I did feel the same way about Clinton, and still do. And if I'm responding to a comment made about McCain, where else would I make my comment, except under "John McCain Passes"?
Why not respond to my comment, instead of taking pot shots at me personally?
Sheldon, Post your introduction in the “Introduction” thread. To do otherwise you will be banned.
hardcorps
09-01-2018, 16:09
Sheldon, Post your introduction in the “Introduction” thread. To do otherwise you will be banned.
Okay, I got it now. Posted my intro, in the proper place.
Okay, I got it now. Posted my intro, in the proper place.
You should have picked the username “HardHead” instead of “hardcorps”. :D
Although knowing the regulars here that username may already be taken. :lifter
Too late.
Enjoy your new handle.
Okay, I got it now. Posted my intro, in the proper place.
Nope. Not yet. Click here (http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=112).
I thank him for his service to our country in the Armed Forces.
I did however take his attempt at killing CAP a little personally. I think our PAOs did too. (https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Social_Media_4033F4FCD6562.pdf)
miclo18d
09-06-2018, 04:32
I let Willy Wonka do all my talking!
hardcorps
09-06-2018, 15:35
I let Willy Wonka do all my talking!
Sure, Willy, I can tell you more.
I co-wrote "Rambo III" and "Bloodsport," which are hardly shining examples of left wing Snowflake Cinema. Hollywood is not a solidly left wing anti-Trump monolith. The biggest Hollywood celebrity that I personally know is JC Van Damme, and he's a solid Trump supporter. Stallone swings that way too. There are others as well.
My initial post had nothing to do with Hollywood. I'm a Vietnam veteran too, and as such I take exception to unfairly dragging another veteran's name through the mud, specifically in this case, John McCain. That man took the oath, put on the uniform, and flew his Skyhawk jet into enemy missile fire. That's an American hero to me. It baffles me that other veterans are able to take pot shots at him, while lionizing a serial draft dodger. Yeah, sure, Bill Clinton and Mitt Romney were draft dodgers too, but they didn't throw insults at McCain. They didn't say that he was "no hero," because they like "people who don't get captured."
Sure, Willy, I can tell you more.
I co-wrote "Rambo III" and "Bloodsport," which are hardly shining examples of left wing Snowflake Cinema. Hollywood is not a solidly left wing anti-Trump monolith. The biggest Hollywood celebrity that I personally know is JC Van Damme, and he's a solid Trump supporter. Stallone swings that way too. There are others as well.
My initial post had nothing to do with Hollywood. I'm a Vietnam veteran too, and as such I take exception to unfairly dragging another veteran's name through the mud, specifically in this case, John McCain. That man took the oath, put on the uniform, and flew his Skyhawk jet into enemy missile fire. That's an American hero to me. It baffles me that other veterans are able to take pot shots at him, while lionizing a serial draft dodger. Yeah, sure, Bill Clinton and Mitt Romney were draft dodgers too, but they didn't throw insults at McCain. They didn't say that he was "no hero," because they like "people who don't get captured."
I too am a veteran your opinion concerning John McCain is worth no more than mine. I earned that right to an opinion as much as any other veteran. The word hero is bandied about far to haphazardly as far as I am concerned. I am not impressed by what you wrote and who you know, your intro told us nothing about you but your posts speak volumes. Just my .02
bblhead672
09-06-2018, 16:37
I'm a Vietnam veteran too, and as such I take exception to unfairly dragging another veteran's name through the mud, specifically in this case, John McCain.
Many veterans, including John McCain, bring discredit upon themselves by their conduct after serving. If you doubt that just look at the number vets who have thoroughly brought dishonor upon themselves by lying about their service.
Here's a good place to start:
"Hall of Shame Inductees" (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=117)
Claim what you will about your intentions, your words and attitude reflect those of the left and of the Never Trumpers.
hardcorps
09-06-2018, 18:02
I too am a veteran your opinion concerning John McCain is worth no more than mine. I earned that right to an opinion as much as any other veteran. The word hero is bandied about far to haphazardly as far as I am concerned. I am not impressed by what you wrote and who you know, your intro told us nothing about you but your posts speak volumes. Just my .02
What else do you want to know about me that my intro didn't say? I'm also a graduate of Jump School and Ranger School, and I'm a combat veteran who spent a year in RVN with a USMC infantry battalion. So I've earned the right to express my opinions as much as any other veteran as well, especially if those opinions are about veterans. Sorry if they're not congruent with yours, but that's what makes these online forums lively and interesting. An echo chamber where everyone is repeating the same opinions and patting one another on the back for expressing the party line ends up being boring, repetitive, and a waste of time. You don't learn anything.
Old Dog New Trick
09-06-2018, 18:47
JMHO YMMV
Hardcorps, glad to see you come back. You still spout the liberal talking points about Trump being a draft dogger. You mentioned earlier that he lived in a New York penthouse as a child, that the family had a crooked doctor that gave him five medical deferments during the height of the Vietnam war and some other stuff.
Could you post up those supporting facts and discuss how Trump is any more or less “privileged” than the life that Sen. John S. McCain III (CPT US Navy Ret) had growing up?
One of these men heaps unquestionably praise on the men and women in uniform and has never stabbed those same in the back. The other not so much while serving as an elected official sitting on the committees most responsible for funding and supporting those same soldiers, airmen, Marines and sailors during and after their service to the country. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has a dismal voting record on those issues. Don’t even get me started on where he stood regarding POWs and the surviving families of those MIA/POW not returned, not found. (Hopefully now that he’s dead those “classified” files can be de-classified and these families can find closure from a war fought so long ago.)
I don’t believe anyone here is besmirching McCain’s military service or his dedication and patriotism to country. Most of us have problems with the fact that he was the Washington DC “Swamp” maybe the Grand Poobah of the swamp! Republican John McCain put the “R” in RINO. Seems all his best friends are RINOs and Democrats. Hell, Ted Kennedy probably would have had nice things to say at McCain’s funeral. They could both be callled Lions of the Senate.
It’s really quite amazing that one man could live and prosper and die with such acclaim and well wishes by people and organizations (media, Hollywood. Planned Parenthood) that only ten years earlier referred to him as a Nazi, a racist, a war monger, and a liar. I mean really who is this lucky -
He survived crashing three Navy jets (Most Navy pilots would have only been given one crash if that) and someone without the name McCain who graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis Military Academy would have been tossed out of the Navy. (Just like the other Maverick - John was writing checks his body can’t cash, son you don’t own that airplane, the tax payers own that airplane.)
He survived the catastrophic fire onboard the USS Forestall (some think he’s partly to blame but there is no proof of that.)
He survived being shot down and becoming a POW for five and a half years in Hanoi and still was able to return to duty and command a fighter jet squadron until retirement. (That’s pretty impressive to pass all those flight physicals every year up to and until 1981.) (Even more impressive is all those post release black and white photographs of a strapping young man walking free, shaking hands, riding the bus, visiting Vietnamese children/orphans and finally getting to meet President Nixon in the Oval Office ‘on crutches’ - maybe he’d just visited one of those hellish VA hospitals in the Washington area. As a Senator he spoke of finding solutions but voted no on funding improvements.)
Was John McCain unlucky or the luckiest man on earth. He did after all marry Cindy Lou Hensley, aristocratic heiress to the Hensley distribution empire for Anheuser-Busch (richest ‘crooked’ family in Arizona) before running for Congress without meeting the state residency rules...and won!
And how could we forget his role in the Keating Five and the Savings and Loan scandal! Again, just lucky I guess.
The McCain-Finegold Act 2002, set the path for Citizens United, PACs and SuperPACs and other campaign finance issues plaguing elections past and present.
Everything Sen. John McCain, touched turned to shit, except John McCain! Even in death his divisive nature came out according to his final wishes.
“Reach across the isle - politics” that was for nearly four decades John McCain the “Maverick” looking out for John McCain and no one else.
My apologies for the long rant. I joined the Army a couple years before he became a Congressman I am a direct survivor of his politics regarding the military - good, bad, or with indifference to those who served. He undermined Reagan’s foreign policy objectives in the Middle East and Africa. He undermined the CIA in time of war and threw the people protecting the nation under the bus. If not for the first we may not have ever had the second. He undermined the VA healthcare system and unfunded popular parts of the GI Bill. Remember, everything he touched turned to shit!
Rest In Peace John S. McCain III, some people rest in hell because of what you’ve done.
(As I said, I tried to stay out of this thread) :rolleyes:
hardcorps
09-07-2018, 10:24
JMHO YMMV
Hardcorps, glad to see you come back. You still spout the liberal talking points about Trump being a draft dogger. You mentioned earlier that he lived in a New York penthouse as a child, that the family had a crooked doctor that gave him five medical deferments during the height of the Vietnam war and some other stuff.
Could you post up those supporting facts and discuss how Trump is any more or less “privileged” than the life that Sen. John S. McCain III (CPT US Navy Ret) had growing up?
One of these men heaps unquestionably praise on the men and women in uniform and has never stabbed those same in the back. The other not so much while serving as an elected official sitting on the committees most responsible for funding and supporting those same soldiers, airmen, Marines and sailors during and after their service to the country. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has a dismal voting record on those issues. Don’t even get me started on where he stood regarding POWs and the surviving families of those MIA/POW not returned, not found. (Hopefully now that he’s dead those “classified” files can be de-classified and these families can find closure from a war fought so long ago.)
I don’t believe anyone here is besmirching McCain’s military service or his dedication and patriotism to country. Most of us have problems with the fact that he was the Washington DC “Swamp” maybe the Grand Poobah of the swamp! Republican John McCain put the “R” in RINO. Seems all his best friends are RINOs and Democrats. Hell, Ted Kennedy probably would have had nice things to say at McCain’s funeral. They could both be callled Lions of the Senate.
It’s really quite amazing that one man could live and prosper and die with such acclaim and well wishes by people and organizations (media, Hollywood. Planned Parenthood) that only ten years earlier referred to him as a Nazi, a racist, a war monger, and a liar. I mean really who is this lucky -
He survived crashing three Navy jets (Most Navy pilots would have only been given one crash if that) and someone without the name McCain who graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis Military Academy would have been tossed out of the Navy. (Just like the other Maverick - John was writing checks his body can’t cash, son you don’t own that airplane, the tax payers own that airplane.)
He survived the catastrophic fire onboard the USS Forestall (some think he’s partly to blame but there is no proof of that.)
He survived being shot down and becoming a POW for five and a half years in Hanoi and still was able to return to duty and command a fighter jet squadron until retirement. (That’s pretty impressive to pass all those flight physicals every year up to and until 1981.) (Even more impressive is all those post release black and white photographs of a strapping young man walking free, shaking hands, riding the bus, visiting Vietnamese children/orphans and finally getting to meet President Nixon in the Oval Office ‘on crutches’ - maybe he’d just visited one of those hellish VA hospitals in the Washington area. As a Senator he spoke of finding solutions but voted no on funding improvements.)
Was John McCain unlucky or the luckiest man on earth. He did after all marry Cindy Lou Hensley, aristocratic heiress to the Hensley distribution empire for Anheuser-Busch (richest ‘crooked’ family in Arizona) before running for Congress without meeting the state residency rules...and won!
And how could we forget his role in the Keating Five and the Savings and Loan scandal! Again, just lucky I guess.
The McCain-Finegold Act 2002, set the path for Citizens United, PACs and SuperPACs and other campaign finance issues plaguing elections past and present.
Everything Sen. John McCain, touched turned to shit, except John McCain! Even in death his divisive nature came out according to his final wishes.
“Reach across the isle - politics” that was for nearly four decades John McCain the “Maverick” looking out for John McCain and no one else.
My apologies for the long rant. I joined the Army a couple years before he became a Congressman I am a direct survivor of his politics regarding the military - good, bad, or with indifference to those who served. He undermined Reagan’s foreign policy objectives in the Middle East and Africa. He undermined the CIA in time of war and threw the people protecting the nation under the bus. If not for the first we may not have ever had the second. He undermined the VA healthcare system and unfunded popular parts of the GI Bill. Remember, everything he touched turned to shit!
Rest In Peace John S. McCain III, some people rest in hell because of what you’ve done.
(As I said, I tried to stay out of this thread) :rolleyes:
First of all, thank you for your thoughtful and well considered response. I'm a person who follows current events quite thoroughly, using various sources, both liberal and conservative. I've also been a member of the VFW and DAV for many years, and I read the articles in their monthly magazines. I also happen to know a lot of veterans, and have been getting my healthcare through the VA for many years now. And I've been a fan of John McCain's for many years as well, and had been following his career through these various news sources, and also his appearances at press conferences, etc. Despite all that, much of what you've alleged about John McCain in your response comes as a surprise to me.
I did some googling last night to double-check your allegations, and I did find some support for your views, but mostly in left wing and ultra-liberal media. I found an article on HuffPost that echoed and amplified nearly every one of your major negative contentions about McCain. HuffPost, as I'm sure you know, has never had a kind word to say about Donald Trump either. So should I believe what they're telling me about McCain, but disregard what they're saying about Trump?
Where there's smoke there's usually fire, so I'm sure that at least some of your negative contentions about McCain are probably true. Nobody's perfect. Not even Donald Trump, although I have read opinions on this forum that see him with golden halos hovering over his head.
I also did some double-checking on the draft-dodger allegations. Apparently Trump passed his initial draft physicals, back in December of 1966. No evidence of "bone spurs." He was deemed fit for service, but received deferments because of school; same as Bill Clinton. But after he graduated from the University of Pennsylvania, he was again eligible for the draft. In October of 1968, the draft board received a note from the Trump family physician alerting them to the alleged "bone spurs," which led to Trump's classification of 1-Y, which meant he could be inducted only in the event of a national emergency. His deferments from 1964 to 1968 were 2-S, 1-A, and 1-Y. Then, in 1972, after he'd graduated from the Wharton School, and was no longer eligible for any student deferments, his draft status suddenly jumped to 4-F. Shortly afterwards, in 1973, the country did away with the draft altogether.
This is not "Fake News." There are documents. As I'm sure there are documents about McCain as well. But as a Vietnam veteran, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the man who took the oath, put on the uniform, and flew the warplanes into enemy fire. It surprises and saddens me that there are other vets out there who are so willing to throw a man like that -- a true patriot and a warrior -- under the bus.
It surprises and saddens me that there are other vets out there who are so willing to throw a man like that -- a true patriot and a warrior -- under the bus.
As I've said elsewhere on this site, McCain's name first came to my attention at the EM Club at Camp Schwab from a couple of your Marine brothers who claimed to be on the Forrestal the day of the fire and the word was that Mac wet started his aircraft to startle the pilot behind him. AND, he was known to do such jackassery a lot. Of course, I have no reason to believe that the Marines weren't just lying, but at the time, McCain was just another Navy pilot and his father had just been named CINCPAC so who knows. His behavior as a POW was no different than most of the other POWs at the time except his was expected because of his family history.
That was 1968 and nothing over the years undermined anything that those Marines told us at Schwab. I had to vote for him for Senate since he didn't have a viable opponent. I voted for Palin for President, not McCain...and his jackassery raised it's tail after that run, too.
Oh, and he wasn't very popular on the Oriskany either. The word there is that he bullied his way onto that last flight and injured himself by not following procedures for proper ejection.
http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/McCain-Shootdown.htm
Again, I have no more reason to believe the Sailors than I do the Marines, but where are the good stories? And he's been on my radar screen for 50 years without much to disprove any of the claims.
Old Dog New Trick
09-07-2018, 11:16
Thank you for the response. As you know there is a lot of information out there, some true, some made up, some outright lies. Like a I said, I lived much of that period on Active Duty and these are my recollections and memories of his time in Congress. I would never have voted for him based on his record but I did vote for him once (2008) based on his party. (Was probably secretly voting for Palin. I suppose we’ll all never know why he didn’t pick Lieberman to be his running mate - a winning ticket over Obama/Biden.)
While you were searching did you come across Trumps early life (yes he lived in a mansion with butlers and such, his father much like anyone who rose to great wealth from nothing did those things) but he was only there a short time. He spent his formative years as an adolescent and teenager in New York Military Academy. Where he got straightened out and set on a path of success. He was quite good at sports, could have been a professional baseball player, did very well academically and became a leader and mentor in high school - Earning the rank of Captain.
Trump is everything he and the media have had to say about Trump. None of it very good. He wasn’t my first, second or third choice to run the country but there was no way in hell Felonia Vonn Pantsuit was going to be given the keys to the White House. So we got Trump. He’s actually doing a good job, even with all the distractions.
McCain for all his talk of unity and bipartisanship left one person out of the final act. His enemy!
.....McCain for all his talk of unity and bipartisanship left one person out of the final act. His enemy!
Two, Gov Palin - who never said a bad word about him even as he stabbed her in the back.
Old Dog New Trick
09-07-2018, 13:54
Two, Gov Palin - who never said a bad word about him even as he stabbed her in the back.
I stand corrected. (Yes, I forgot about her not being invited.)
I stand corrected. (Yes, I forgot about her not being invited.)
He had said that putting her on the ticket was a mistake, guess in the end he learned from his mistakes.
hardcorps
09-07-2018, 15:23
He had said that putting her on the ticket was a mistake, guess in the end he learned from his mistakes.
Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.
hardcorps
09-07-2018, 15:33
He was quite good at sports, could have been a professional baseball player.
Good at sports? Potentially a professional baseball player? Despite those "painful bone spurs"? Funny how those only manifested when he had to go meet with the folks at the local draft board.
Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.
McCain was the soup of the day when he ran for POTUS it was his turn, Palin was the better half of the ticket.
Unfortunately he realized his mistake too late to make a course correction. Going with a sensible and logical choice like Joe Lieberman might have given him the election and thwarted a second Obama term. We'll never know. As I've already stated quite plainly, I had been a great admirer of McCain for many years. Choosing Palin as his running mate was by far the stupidest decision of his entire career, maybe of his entire life. And it made me, and probably a lot of other people, question his judgement and his fitness to hold the highest office.
The pink font on this site indicates a joke or sarcasm.
You'll find that Palin was mostly liked here.
The pink font on this site indicates a joke or sarcasm.
You'll find that Palin was mostly liked here.
Of course she was mostly liked here, after all we do march in lock step here. :D
hardcorps
09-07-2018, 18:50
McCain was the soup of the day when he ran for POTUS it was his turn, Palin was the better half of the ticket.
You mean the lady who knew all about Russia, because she could "see it from her front porch"? :rolleyes:
You mean the lady who knew all about Russia, because she could "see it from her front porch"? :rolleyes:
That was Tina Fey on SNL. Catch up. Palin said that you can see Russia from Alaska, and you can.
hardcorps
09-07-2018, 19:28
That was Tina Fey on SNL. Catch up. Palin said that you can see Russia from Alaska, and you can.
I stand corrected. Shall I get down and give you fifty pushups?
Palin sat down for a series of interviews with CBS anchor Katie Couric later that month in which Palin struggled to answer why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gave her the foreign policy chops necessary to serve as vice president. “Well, it certainly does because our – our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They’re in the state that I am the executive of,” said Palin.
Her performance in these interviews was widely panned by conservative and liberal critics alike.
I stand corrected. Shall I get down and give you fifty pushups?
Palin sat down for a series of interviews with CBS anchor Katie Couric later that month in which Palin struggled to answer why Alaska’s proximity to Russia gave her the foreign policy chops necessary to serve as vice president. “Well, it certainly does because our – our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They’re in the state that I am the executive of,” said Palin.
Her performance in these interviews was widely panned by conservative and liberal critics alike.
Like me, you're too old. I like to watch women beach vollyballers do push up so that's your punishment. ;) Pix please.
I stand corrected. Shall I get down and give you fifty pushups? ........
Might help but it does show where you get your news from. The news that helps you form your opinions.
hardcorps
09-08-2018, 06:53
Might help but it does show where you get your news from. The news that helps you form your opinions.
I got that short piece about Palin by doing a Google Search. But I get my news from various sources, left and right. Mostly newspapers, magazines, and online. I almost never watch news on TV.
SouthernDZ
09-08-2018, 07:38
"When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging" -- Will Rogers (found that on google too).
I got that short piece about Palin by doing a Google Search. But I get my news from various sources, left and right. Mostly newspapers, magazines, and online. I almost never watch news on TV.
For 10 years you've believed Gov Palin was a dunce because of something that was done on a SNL skit.
You also believe her to be a dunce because that's what your left wing fake news sites told you to believe.
If you read something that fits your biases you believe it. If you read something that doesn't then you don't believe it.
So what else are you wrong on?
Will be gone for about 24 hours so y'all behave yourselves.
Old Dog New Trick
09-08-2018, 10:46
Hardcorps, tell me a story about yourself.
You have children? (I do, one boy, he’s young, I’m old)
Were you a Marine at a young age? Stay long after your tour of duty? I’m guessing you were drafted? (I joined of my own free will at 17, for a short time - get my shit together - I was a rudderless high school dropout at the time - that short time lasted 21 years and turned my life around.)
You start out in life wealthy, average, or poor? (I was in a typical 1960’s family, typical until my dad left my mom at five, typical until watching your war on the family TV and listening to Walter Cronkite tell all. I didn’t grow up rich or poor but there were times food stamps put food on the table and times where everything was possible.)
You appear to have done well in life, work in (literally) Hollywood, dine with real life Hollywood action figures, and live in Grenada Hills (I know the place well - my uncle raised my cousins there in the 70’s - it’s a successful mans’ neighborhood - or was. I grew up in and around Burbank.) Again it sounds like you have done well in life. (I have too, my career in the Army led me to a second career in law enforcement/counterterrorism; I really do what you write about - have everyday for 38 years now, no scripts, no breaks, no retakes. I provide for my family, drive nice cars and live in a big house.)
As such, I really don’t want my son to join the military when he’s old enough. I’m working hard so he has an opportunity to get an excellent education, find a great job, and do all the things I never had the opportunity to do, although I would not change anything about my life. (Well, I’d like to go back and finish the 12th grade get the diploma and fly the helicopter instead of jumping from them, that might have been better. But no, my life turned out just great. I spent much of it cleaning up after the wars before me from Europe to Southeast Asia.)
If you have children, are they expected to serve in peacetime or war? Would you help them or encourage them to avoid service in war after graduating from school or writing their own yet to be produced movie? What if before you are done in life, you have your own production company, and a son or daughter to hand it down to...wouldn’t you, want them to stay away from it?
It’s not “dishonorable” to take over the family business or become the family breadwinner after parents poured their entire lives into your success. I would hope and pray that after the hardships and destruction of entire families from WW1 to Vietnam that we never have a draft again and that there will only be a military where people like me can volunteer to do what others cannot or will not do. I don’t fault them nor despise them and I would not want them protecting my flank or my six. So many lives needlessly lost because of the poor leadership this country has had in the past (recent past as well) still judging the current CinC.
Do you find fault only with Donald Trump or anyone from that time period? Should the college students of Kent State or other universities be held up as cowards and draft dodgers? How about the hundreds of thousands of military aged males who had the time to protest but not enough courage to sign up?
One last before I go, which Hollywood tough guy you know actually served in the military?
hardcorps
09-08-2018, 10:55
For 10 years you've believed Gov Palin was a dunce because of something that was done on a SNL skit.
You also believe her to be a dunce because that's what your left wing fake news sites told you to believe.
If you read something that fits your biases you believe it. If you read something that doesn't then you don't believe it.
So what else are you wrong on?There's an old saying: Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt.
My initial opinion about Palin was positive, because I trusted McCain's judgement. Then she opened her mouth (for the Katie Couric interview) and I saw quite plainly that she was a dummy; an ignorant dummy. I'm sure McCain made the same realization around the same time. Subsequent interviews with Palin did not convince me otherwise. It didn't matter if those interviews were on Fox News or on CNN.
hardcorps
09-08-2018, 11:14
Hardcorps, tell me a story about yourself.
You have children? (I do, one boy, he’s young, I’m old)
Were you a Marine at a young age? Stay long after your tour of duty? I’m guessing you were drafted? (I joined of my own free will at 17, for a short time - get my shit together - I was a rudderless high school dropout at the time - that short time lasted 21 years and turned my life around.)
You start out in life wealthy, average, or poor? (I was in a typical 1960’s family, typical until my dad left my mom at five, typical until watching your war on the family TV and listening to Walter Cronkite tell all. I didn’t grow up rich or poor but there were times food stamps put food on the table and times where everything was possible.)
You appear to have done well in life, work in (literally) Hollywood, dine with real life Hollywood action figures, and live in Grenada Hills (I know the place well - my uncle raised my cousins there in the 70’s - it’s a successful mans’ neighborhood - or was. I grew up in and around Burbank.) Again it sounds like you have done well in life. (I have too, my career in the Army led me to a second career in law enforcement/counterterrorism; I really do what you write about - have everyday for 38 years now, no scripts, no breaks, no retakes. I provide for my family, drive nice cars and live in a big house.)
As such, I really don’t want my son to join the military when he’s old enough. I’m working hard so he has an opportunity to get an excellent education, find a great job, and do all the things I never had the opportunity to do, although I would not change anything about my life. (Well, I’d like to go back and finish the 12th grade get the diploma and fly the helicopter instead of jumping from them, that might have been better. But no, my life turned out just great. I spent much of it cleaning up after the wars before me from Europe to Southeast Asia.)
If you have children, are they expected to serve in peacetime or war? Would you help them or encourage them to avoid service in war after graduating from school or writing their own yet to be produced movie? What if before you are done in life, you have your own production company, and a son or daughter to hand it down to...wouldn’t you, want them to stay away from it?
It’s not “dishonorable” to take over the family business or become the family breadwinner after parents poured their entire lives into your success. I would hope and pray that after the hardships and destruction of entire families from WW1 to Vietnam that we never have a draft again and that there will only be a military where people like me can volunteer to do what others cannot or will not do. I don’t fault them nor despise them and I would not want them protecting my flank or my six. So many lives needlessly lost because of the poor leadership this country has had in the past (recent past as well) still judging the current CinC.
Do you find fault only with Donald Trump or anyone from that time period? Should the college students of Kent State or other universities be held up as cowards and draft dodgers? How about the hundreds of thousands of military aged males who had the time to protest but not enough courage to sign up?
One last before I go, which Hollywood tough guy you know actually served in the military?
I'll have to get back to you later, because I've got things to do right now, and some of your questions require long answers. But I can answer a few right now, quickly.
First of all, I enlisted in the Marine Corps, right after I turned 18. I turned 19 when I was already serving in Vietnam.
I don't personally know any on-screen "Hollywood tough guys" who served in the military. But I had a writing partner named Chuck Pfarrer, who served in the Navy SEALS for about 8 years. Chuck went on to write "Hard Target," "Darkman," and a few other successful movies. He's writing novels now.
The only on-screen "tough guy" whom I've personally known, and who's made claims about serving in the military (and the CIA!), is Steven Seagal. He made these claims to me personally, to my face, while I was riding in the same car with him. Turns out that all of this was complete bullshit. He never served a day in his life, in the military or the CIA.
Another big bullshitter was a guy named Frank Dux, who's enshrined in your Hall Of Shame. In the days before the Internet, Frank made all kinds of wild claims about being in Special Forces and participating in secret underground martial arts competitions. I ended up writing a screenplay about these completely fictitious exploits which was titled "Bloodsport," and which became a movie that gave Dux a certain amount of notoriety for a number of years, until his house of cards started to come crashing down. Rather than going into laborious detail, here's what the Military Phonies website had to say about Dux after doing an extensive investigation: https://militaryphony.com/2017/03/19/frank-william-dux-cold-case-getting-warmer/. I'm sure most of you have seen this movie. It has also been reported to be Donald Trump's favorite movie, or at least among his top ten.
To briefly answer another of your queries, I have 3 daughters, all of whom are in their 30's. I've been married to the same woman for 36 years now. Which is very atypical for Hollywood, but I've been atypical my entire life.
Back at ya later!
Old Dog New Trick
09-08-2018, 11:28
There's an old saying: Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt.
My initial opinion about Palin was positive, because I trusted McCain's judgement. Then she opened her mouth (for the Katie Couric interview) and I saw quite plainly that she was a dummy; an ignorant dummy. I'm sure McCain made the same realization around the same time. Subsequent interviews with Palin did not convince me otherwise. It didn't matter if those interviews were on Fox News or on CNN.
What she needed was a TelePrompTer and for the interviewer to stay on script with all those pre-submitted questions like all the other leading candidates get.
Just ask Uncle Joe Biden what can possibly go wrong when you speak from the hip? So many inadvertent slip ups with classified information to keep track of. :eek:
Oh and I’ll be, his five student deferments and a sixth medical waiver from Vietnam. Must have been hard for McCain to call him his BFF.
hardcorps
09-08-2018, 13:02
Just ask Uncle Joe Biden what can possibly go wrong when you speak from the hip? So many inadvertent slip ups with classified information to keep track of. :eek:
Oh and I’ll be, his five student deferments and a sixth medical waiver from Vietnam. Must have been hard for McCain to call him his BFF.
Biden's son, Beau Biden, served as an officer in the US military. And ironically, he deployed to Iraq the day after his dad's debate with Palin. Three of McCain's sons served in the US military. Jimmy McCain served in Iraq and Afghanistan, both for the Marines and for the Army. With all that in common, I'm sure McCain and Biden had no problems being BFF's.
For 10 years you've believed Gov Palin was a dunce because of something that was done on a SNL skit.
You also believe her to be a dunce because that's what your left wing fake news sites told you to believe.
If you read something that fits your biases you believe it. If you read something that doesn't then you don't believe it.
So what else are you wrong on?
I was never a fan or detractor of Governor Palin.
But I was a massive fan of Admiral James Stockdale:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale
Some here may be quite disappointed at the split ticket result of Perot/Stockdale being a victorious tailwind for Clinton/Gore.
Clinton/Gore won over Bush Senior by just 5.5% with Perot/Stockdale taking 19%.
If Perot/Stockdale had not run, Bush Senior would surely have won.
Funny how that never seems to come up in historical discussions in the media.
However, Admiral Stockdale was a good man, and truly an intellectual titan.
Who was also character assassinated on SNL by Phil Hartmann(was since murdered by his wife, perhaps a bit of karma).
If there is an A4 pilot and Vietnam POW I’m going to miss, it’s Admiral Stockdale.
Senator McCain’s disruption of real campaign finance reform is sickening.
Clinton/Gore won over Bush Senior by just 5.5% with Perot/Stockdale taking 19%.
If Perot/Stockdale had not run, Bush Senior would surely have won.
Funny how that never seems to come up in historical discussions in the media.
Not a lot of folks understand that it was Perot going in and out of the election undermining Bush Sr that gave real birth to the Clinton empire.
If Bill had been beaten, he'd have probably faded into obscurity while the Democrats went looking for their next champion.
Imagine what today's political landscape might look like if the Clintons never had a chance to dig that first foxhole that they used to defend their growing empire.
Old Dog New Trick
09-08-2018, 15:17
I was part of that 19%.
If Perot/Stockdale had won perhaps none of the shit that went wrong since ‘93 would have happened.
-No Clinton(s)
-No Bush
-No Obama
-No Trump
Funny how tiny moments in history can have such a major affect on the future.
-No USS Cole in the news
-No Embassy bombings
-No Mogadishu Mile!
Just some dead goat fucker named Bin Laden. (Dies in Sudan from iron poisoning)
-No 9/11/01 (perhaps?)
hardcorps
09-10-2018, 13:46
Hardcorps, tell me a story about yourself.
As promised, I'm picking up a few of your unanswered questions here:
You have children? (I do, one boy, he’s young, I’m old)
Were you a Marine at a young age? Stay long after your tour of duty? I’m guessing you were drafted? (I joined of my own free will at 17, for a short time - get my shit together - I was a rudderless high school dropout at the time - that short time lasted 21 years and turned my life around.)
I still had a couple more years left on my four-year enlistment when I returned from 'Nam. I volunteered for Force Recon during that period, which led to me attending and graduating from Jump School and Ranger School. Those were my best two years in the Marines. There's nothing cooler than a night jump off the tailgate of a C-130.
You start out in life wealthy, average, or poor? (I was in a typical 1960’s family, typical until my dad left my mom at five, typical until watching your war on the family TV and listening to Walter Cronkite tell all. I didn’t grow up rich or poor but there were times food stamps put food on the table and times where everything was possible.)
My family lived in a six story tenement in Brooklyn for the first five years of my life. Then we moved to Los Angeles, and my parents gradually ascended their way up the middle class ladder.
You appear to have done well in life, work in (literally) Hollywood, dine with real life Hollywood action figures, and live in Grenada Hills (I know the place well - my uncle raised my cousins there in the 70’s - it’s a successful mans’ neighborhood - or was. I grew up in and around Burbank.)
Trust me, Granada Hills, for the most part, is strictly a middle class neighborhood. There are a few other film industry folks who live around here, but they're mostly "below-the-line" craftspeople; Production Managers, Transportation Coordinators, and similar. The rich folks in the San Fernando Valley live in Encino, Tarzana, and Sherman Oaks, and further west in Calabasas.
Again it sounds like you have done well in life. (I have too, my career in the Army led me to a second career in law enforcement/counterterrorism; I really do what you write about - have everyday for 38 years now, no scripts, no breaks, no retakes. I provide for my family, drive nice cars and live in a big house.)
Nowadays, I'm getting by quite comfortably on my pensions (from the DGA and WGA), an annuity, Social Security, and residuals. I even get a small Disability check from the VA. :cool:
As such, I really don’t want my son to join the military when he’s old enough. I’m working hard so he has an opportunity to get an excellent education, find a great job, and do all the things I never had the opportunity to do, although I would not change anything about my life. (Well, I’d like to go back and finish the 12th grade get the diploma and fly the helicopter instead of jumping from them, that might have been better. But no, my life turned out just great. I spent much of it cleaning up after the wars before me from Europe to Southeast Asia.)
If you have children, are they expected to serve in peacetime or war? Would you help them or encourage them to avoid service in war after graduating from school or writing their own yet to be produced movie? What if before you are done in life, you have your own production company, and a son or daughter to hand it down to...wouldn’t you, want them to stay away from it?
It’s not “dishonorable” to take over the family business or become the family breadwinner after parents poured their entire lives into your success. I would hope and pray that after the hardships and destruction of entire families from WW1 to Vietnam that we never have a draft again and that there will only be a military where people like me can volunteer to do what others cannot or will not do. I don’t fault them nor despise them and I would not want them protecting my flank or my six. So many lives needlessly lost because of the poor leadership this country has had in the past (recent past as well) still judging the current CinC.
Do you find fault only with Donald Trump or anyone from that time period? Should the college students of Kent State or other universities be held up as cowards and draft dodgers? How about the hundreds of thousands of military aged males who had the time to protest but not enough courage to sign up?
I still despise Jane Fonda and others of a similar ilk from that same period. And while I'm not a fan of Trump, I do admire a number of his recent accomplishments, especially: pulling out of the U.N.'s so-called "Human Rights Council," moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem, de-funding UNWRA, demanding that other members of NATO contribute their fair share, strengthening border controls, and getting the leaders of North and South Korea to shake hands.
One last before I go, which Hollywood tough guy you know actually served in the military?
I already said what I have to say about phony veterans Steven Seagal and Frank Dux.
Have I answered enough questions? I usually get paid to do this much writing ;)
I already said what I have to say
I usually get paid to do this much writing ;)
Good, because we tolerate silence.
hardcorps
09-10-2018, 14:37
Good, because we tolerate silence.
Of course, you guys are the "Quiet Professionals." In Force Recon we called ourselves "Swift, Silent, Deadly." :cool:
Roguish Lawyer
09-10-2018, 14:52
I thought Bloodsport was awesome, personally. :D
Of course, you guys are the "Quiet Professionals." In Force Recon we called ourselves "Swift, Silent, Deadly." :cool:
What was your MOS back then?
hardcorps
09-10-2018, 19:48
What was your MOS back then?
2533. Radio-Telegraph Operator. I believe I was in the very last class in which Marines were taught Morse Code. Never used it once, the entire time I served.
hardcorps
09-10-2018, 19:51
I thought Bloodsport was awesome, personally. :D
Thank you. Our current President apparently shares your opinion. Google it, if you harbor any doubts. :cool:
2533. Radio-Telegraph Operator. I believe I was in the very last class in which Marines were taught Morse Code. Never used it once, the entire time I served.
Oh....
Did you make it to Jump and Dive school while at 1st Force?
hardcorps
09-10-2018, 21:37
Oh....
Did you make it to Jump and Dive school while at 1st Force?
Yes, I graduated from Jump School at Fort Benning, and made a number of jumps afterwards, including one at Ranger School. I went through pre-Scuba at Camp Pendleton, but didn't go on to the actual Scuba School because I discovered that my ear drums can't handle the pressure of more than one atmosphere. And we had to be able to go down to three atmospheres.:(
miclo18d
09-11-2018, 05:22
I already said what I have to say about phony veterans Steven Seagal and Frank Dux.
Have I answered enough questions? I usually get paid to do this much writing ;)
Remember, pink font for sarcasm, not a wink emoji.... how are you going to get paid when you don’t speak the language?
Besides, cut and paste of a bio.....isn’t writing. What you wrote in your last post is what SHOULD have been in your bio.
TrapperFrank
09-11-2018, 09:13
Revisiting the Clinton/Bush/Perot debacle. I could not stand either Clinton or Bush, King George I or II for that matter. All that said, King George I did not campaign with much vigor and seemed to be bored most of the time. He actually looked at his watch during one of the debates with Clinton as if to say, "How much longer is this bullshit going to go on?" King George I always struck me as a whiny elitist. Since his defeat in '92, he has proven me right. For example, acting as an apologist for Dear Leader O'Bumbles. If he had his way, Crown Prince Jeb would have been forced on this country as the '16 GOP nominee. We all know how that would have turned out; a 52-48% vote split with Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Crime Cartel allowed to raid the national treasury once again.