How Do Civil Wars Happen?

[Trapper John]

This is a very thought provoking essay I found this morning. [Credit to COL (USA Ret) James Roach]:

How do civil wars happen?

Two or more sides disagree on who runs the country. And they can't settle the question through elections because they don't even agree that elections are how you decide who's in charge.

That's the basic issue here. Who decides who runs the country? When you hate each other but accept the election results, you have a country. When you stop accepting election results, you have a countdown to a civil war.

The Mueller investigation is about removing President Trump from office and overturning the results of an election. We all know that. But it's not the first time they've done this. The first time a Republican president was elected this century, they said he didn't really win. The Supreme Court gave him the election. There's a pattern here.

What do sure odds of the Democrats rejecting the next Republican president really mean? It means they don't accept the results of any election that they don't win. It means they don't believe that transfers of power in this country are determined by elections.

That's a civil war.

There's no shooting. At least not unless you count the attempt to kill a bunch of Republicans at a charity baseball game practice. But the Democrats have rejected our system of government.

This isn't dissent. It's not disagreement. You can hate the other party. You can think they're the worst thing that ever happened to the country.

But then you work harder to win the next election. When you consistently reject the results of elections that you don't win, what you want is a dictatorship.

Your very own dictatorship.

The only legitimate exercise of power in this country, according to Democrats, is its own.

Whenever Republicans exercise power, it's inherently illegitimate. The Democrats lost Congress. They lost the White House. So what did they do? They began trying to run the country through Federal judges and bureaucrats. Every time that a Federal judge issues an order saying that the President of the United States can't scratch his own back without his say so, that's the civil war.

Our system of government is based on the constitution, but that's not the system that runs this country. The Democrat's system is that any part of government that it runs gets total and unlimited power over the country.

If the Democrats are in the White House, then the president can do anything. And I mean anything. He can have his own amnesty for illegal aliens. He can fine you for not having health insurance. His power is unlimited. He's a dictator.

But when Republicans get into the White House, suddenly the President can't do anything. He isn't even allowed to undo the illegal alien amnesty that his predecessor illegally invented. A Democrat in the White House has 'discretion' to completely decide every aspect of immigration policy. A Republican doesn't even have the 'discretion' to reverse him. That's how the game is played That's how our country is run. Sad but true, although the left hasn't yet won that particular fight.

When a Democrat is in the White House, states aren't even allowed to enforce immigration law. But when a Republican is in the White House, states can create their own immigration laws. Under Obama, a state wasn't allowed to go to the bathroom without asking permission. But under Trump, Jerry Brown can go around saying that California is an independent republic and sign treaties with other countries.

The Constitution has something to say about that.

Whether it's Federal or State, Executive, Legislative or Judiciary, the left moves power around to run the country. If it controls an institution, then that institution is suddenly the supreme power in the land. This is what I call a moving dictatorship.

Donald Trump has caused the Shadow Government to come out of hiding: Professional government is a guild. Like medieval guilds. You can't serve in if you're not a member. If you haven't been indoctrinated into its arcane rituals. If you aren't in the club. And Trump isn't in the club. He brought in a bunch of people who aren't in the club with him.

Now we're seeing what the pros do when amateurs try to walk in on them. They spy on them, they investigate them and they send them to jail. They use the tools of power to bring them down.

That's not a free country. It's not a free country when FBI agents who support Hillary take out an 'insurance policy' against Trump winning the election. It's not a free country when Obama officials engage in massive unmasking of the opposition.

It's not a free country when the media responds to the other guy winning by trying to ban the conservative media that supported him from social media.

It's not a free country when all of the above collude together to overturn an election because the guy who wasn't supposed to win did.

Have no doubt, we're in a CIVIL WAR between conservative VOLUNTEER government and a leftist Democrat PROFESSIONAL government.

[cbtengr]

Thanks Trapper John, the Col. certainly put it in a perspective that I had not previously grasped. I was always of the mindset that you needed two sides shooting at each other to have a CW. This is a war of ideals.

"Have no doubt, we're in a CIVIL WAR between conservative VOLUNTEER government and a leftist Democrat PROFESSIONAL government."

[Team Sergeant]

I believe electing Mr. Trump showed the liberal/socialist/communist left who’s still running the country. And against all odds (and corruption) he won.

And yes the socialists/communists of this country would love a dictatorship but there’s one small problem with that, the 300-500m guns in private hands.

And we are well aware that it only takes one determined individual, a bolt gun and three rounds to make a positive change in this country.

So, who wants to be dictator?

I’m actually surprised at the restraint that has been shown in this country with all the left-wing corruption going on. The left-wing socialist/communist government agents that have been found to be corrupt, committing treason, conspiracy, and all sorts of criminal acts, are still breathing “free” air.

Kill one, terrify a thousand. - Sun Tzu


We could rewrite Sun Tzu quote, kill one sleaze-bag terrify one hundred million.


Let me know when the shooting starts, until then I’ll be fishing.

[bblhead672]

Great article. Is there a link to it? Would like to post it on another forum.

[Trapper John]

bblhead, probably the easiest thing to do is to just copy and paste. I think this essay should be widely distributed, so help yourself please.

[bblhead672]

Democrat suggests 'Second Amendment' remedy vs. Trump (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/19/democrat-suggests-second-amendment-remedy-vs-trump.html)

Another example of how civil wars happen?

A New York Democratic congressman is being accused of promoting violence against President Trump after suggesting during a town hall that citizens may have to take up arms against the president if he doesn’t follow the law.

“I mean, this is where the Second Amendment comes in quite frankly, because you know, what if the president was to ignore the courts? What would you do? What would we do?” Rep. Tom Suozzi, D-N.Y., said during a March 12 Q&A session with constituents in Huntington, on Long Island.

Then again, haven't they already started?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html
James T. Hodgkinson, the man identified as shooting a Republican member of congress and four others on Wednesday morning, was a small business owner in Illinois who defined himself publicly by his firm support of Bernie Sanders' progressive politics -- and his hatred of conservatives and President Donald Trump.

[BKKMAN]

Seems to be echoing the thoughts in the following article:

Guns Are How A Civil War Ends...Politics Is How It Starts (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-27/daniel-greenfield-guns-are-how-civil-war-ends-politics-how-it-starts)

[Trapper John]

Yep, BKKMAN, COL Roach credited Daniel Greenfield. Thanks for posting a link to the original. Very, very good :lifter

[Badger52]

Democrat suggests 'Second Amendment' remedy vs. Trump (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/19/democrat-suggests-second-amendment-remedy-vs-trump.html)

Another example of how civil wars happen?
As much as I personally think that congresskritter is a candidate for Sun Tzu's "kill the chicken, scare the monkey" approach, the theory he speaks of is correct. Someone should throw that right back in his face. But that assumes they can be reasoned with - they can't. They will not quit until normal sinus rhythm does. So go do what you gotta do until, as TS likes to say, the shootin' starts.

[Dean Jarvis]

It seems the Democrats and Establishment Republicans can say or do anything to POTUS in the name of "it's just politics" but at what point is what they are saying or doing subversive? I think what we are seeing, in the name of politics, has gone way beyond that and there is in fact an attempt to overthrow a duly elected President.

[Badger52]

It seems the Democrats and Establishment Republicans can say or do anything to POTUS in the name of "it's just politics" but at what point is what they are saying or doing subversive? I think what we are seeing, in the name of politics, has gone way beyond that and there is in fact an attempt to overthrow a duly elected President.Quite so. Trump's campaign analyzing social media is treasonous (or pick your adjective). Obama's 2012 campaign vacuuming up FB data isn't. Just one example. Pushback is simply outnumbered by a coordinated media that genuflects to the commies (Stalin said quantity has a quality all its own, or something like that). Those not supporting the Dems continue to try to take the high moral road, so the lamp-posts are not festooned with rope. Yet...

[Trapper John]

It seems the Democrats and Establishment Republicans can say or do anything to POTUS in the name of "it's just politics" but at what point is what they are saying or doing subversive? I think what we are seeing, in the name of politics, has gone way beyond that and there is in fact an attempt to overthrow a duly elected President.

Dean, I think you are exactly correct and, IMHO, I think the "professional political class" is now in full panic mode (see Brennan's comments and the latest personal attacks on the Trump family by HRC). Trump is purposefully fueling the panic through his tweets. I have said before these are all a misdirection and designed to flush out the 'deep-staters'.

As the investigations continue to expand, probably through a 2nd special counsel, and investigations into the DoS, DoJ, along with the intelligence services, the panicked "professionals" could make a fatal mistake that will blow the top off of everything.

The question is, have we reached the tipping point yet? IMHO, not just yet. However, I think a critical mass with momentum may have been reached and getting to that tipping point is very, very near.

Key actors presently in the expanding field of fire include: Mueller, Weissman, Comey, McCabe, Stronk, Lynch, and HRC.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Dean, I think you are exactly correct and, IMHO, I think the "professional political class" is now in full panic mode (see Brennan's comments and the latest personal attacks on the Trump family by HRC). Trump is purposefully fueling the panic through his tweets. I have said before these are all a misdirection and designed to flush out the 'deep-staters'.

As the investigations continue to expand, probably through a 2nd special counsel, and investigations into the DoS, DoJ, along with the intelligence services, the panicked "professionals" could make a fatal mistake that will blow the top off of everything.

The question is, have we reached the tipping point yet? IMHO, not just yet. However, I think a critical mass with momentum may have been reached and getting to that tipping point is very, very near.

Key actors presently in the expanding field of fire include: Mueller, Weissman, Comey, McCabe, Stronk, Lynch, and HRC.

You forgot at least two and maybe a third that will wish this never got started. They are in order: WJC, BHO, and GWB. (Might add Linsey Graham and hopefully before he dies - John McCain - who by the way helped instigate the whole charade of the Steele dossier.)

[bblhead672]

You forgot at least two and maybe a third that will wish this never got started. They are in order: WJC, BHO, and GWB. (Might add Linsey Graham and hopefully before he dies - John McCain - who by the way helped instigate the whole charade of the Steele dossier.)

I'd put McCain near the top of the list for lamppost stability testing, followed closely by Graham and Flake. Then start on the Democrats who actually are members of the D party.

[FlagDayNCO]

The figureheads are always in the spotlight, but the push comes from the mid-level. They are the organizers and bundlers.

Older than any of us... "Follow The Money" and see all the organizations that finance it all, right down to your local school board and parent-teacher associations. It is best to know who in your area is involved. Plus you don't have to travel so far.;)

[Trapper John]

You forgot at least two and maybe a third that will wish this never got started. They are in order: WJC, BHO, and GWB. (Might add Linsey Graham and hopefully before he dies - John McCain - who by the way helped instigate the whole charade of the Steele dossier.)

IMHO, the starting point is the unelected professional bureaucrats. Expose them, prosecute them, and reveal the tyranny. Then proceed to removing the elected professional political class (McCain, Flake, et al.) via the electoral process. At least that's how I see the constitutional process working. ;)

[Badger52]

It is best to know who in your area is involved. Plus you don't have to travel so far.;)+1 "He's makin' a list & checkin' it twice..."

[Old Dog New Trick]

IMHO, the starting point is the unelected professional bureaucrats. Expose them, prosecute them, and reveal the tyranny. Then proceed to removing the elected professional political class (McCain, Flake, et al.) via the electoral process. At least that's how I see the constitutional process working. ;)

I just hope to see them perp walked from their houses to awaiting black (helicopters) SUVs with the good guys wearing FBI emblazoned on their jackets live on CNN.

[Hand]

Democrat suggests 'Second Amendment' remedy vs. Trump (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/19/democrat-suggests-second-amendment-remedy-vs-trump.html)

Another example of how civil wars happen?



Then again, haven't they already started?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html

Rep Tom Suozzi is talking from both sides of his face. It seems that he is actually anti-gun... or not...

From his Twitter acct:
I joined @RepPeteKing on @TheLeadCNN to talk about the need for Republicans and Democrats to come together on reducing gun violence. Americans want us to work together and get this done now!

Today I joined members of Congress and thousands of students for #NationalWalkoutDay outside the U.S. Capitol in an effort to pass commonsense legislation to reduce gun violence. Here's the first video. #EnoughIsEnough

How could someone like these even mention the Second Amendment with a straight face?

[Trapper John]

I just hope to see them perp walked from their houses to awaiting black (helicopters) SUVs with the good guys wearing FBI emblazoned on their jackets live on CNN.

I have that same vision in my head! Best thing that could happen to restore public credibility of the FBI and DoJ IMO. :lifter

[Old Dog New Trick]

I have that same vision in my head! Best thing that could happen to restore public credibility of the FBI and DoJ IMO. :lifter

Yes, it would in fact be a good start to rebuild that credibility. While at the same time watching the MSN eat crow.

[Badger52]

We talking South American-style helicopter rides? :cool:

[ddoering]

+1 "He's makin' a list & checkin' it twice..."

The HuffPo publishes a political campaign donor map that shows the names and addresses of everyone that donates to a particular campaign. Makes it easy for you to clean up your neighborhood.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Bump-

The last few days to a week have been interesting. Appears that nothing is off-limits and once protected conversations and materials are now a public matter.

There has to be a joke in this somewhere. A wealthy businessman, a wealthy lawyer and a porn star walk into a bar...the bartender looks at the three of them and asks - “which one of you takes it up the ass best?”

Jim Comey’s ‘tell all book’ only tells one story...his!

and, SOTH Paul Ryan and 42 other Republicans and 14 Democrats are extricating themselves from the swamp willingly before they have to endure the coming controversy and unmasking of lies and hypocrisy.

Something tells me no matter what happens this fall or if we get to another presidential election this will not end well for our democracy.

The “Fruit of the Poisonous Tree” has been cut down and officially discarded!

[Dean Jarvis]

Bump-

The last few days to a week have been interesting. Appears that nothing is off-limits and once protected conversations and materials are now a public matter.

There has to be a joke in this somewhere. A wealthy businessman, a wealthy lawyer and a porn star walk into a bar...the bartender looks at the three of them and asks - “which one of you takes it up the ass best?”

Jim Comey’s ‘tell all book’ only tells one story...his!

and, SOTH Paul Ryan and 42 other Republicans and 14 Democrats are extricating themselves from the swamp willingly before they have to endure the coming controversy and unmasking of lies and hypocrisy.

Something tells me no matter what happens this fall or if we get to another presidential election this will not end well for our democracy.

The “Fruit of the Poisonous Tree” has been cut down and officially discarded!

Some of us may still remember the millions paid out for sexual harassment claims against a bunch of congressmen. The agreement is that nothing will be put out for the public as long as they just go away. That's my bet on why the rush to get out.:munchin

[Badger52]

Some of us may still remember the millions paid out for sexual harassment claims against a bunch of congressmen. The agreement is that nothing will be put out for the public as long as they just go away. That's my bet on why the rush to get out.:munchin+1 There are decades-old documents still being witheld on a variety of things (up to & including assassinations) that can only be classified because they would be embarassing to someone still alive OR because it would further (if that's possible) undermine the trust of the American people. In other words, "they (The People) can't know how nefarious & scheming we really are in holding ourselves above the law." The notion, in many cases, of "but... national security!" causes me to cough - as in, ahem-bullshit.

[Cobwebs]

Trapper I think we have reached a point where our electoral process is irrelevant. Anyone with a driver's license or the equivalent can vote. They are so stacking the deck that the last election only emboldened them to create new ways to corrupt our elections.
The coordinated unrelenting attacks on our current POTUS from all sides demonstrates the resolve of our opposition. Make no mistake about this...we are in a sea change...

[Paslode]

42 other Republicans and 14 Democrats are extricating themselves from the swamp willingly before they have to endure the coming controversy and unmasking of lies and hypocrisy.

I knew there were quite a few jumping ship, but I had no idea it was that many.

Something wicked this way comes......kind of reminds of the run up to the stock crash of 2008.

[rainstorm26]

The thing about all this is that everything has become so polarized. Despite that, and despite calls for the liberal media for us to come together, it seems like their only goal is to further divide us. I´m sure it is likely linked to trying to publish sensational and attention grabbing stories because those get viewers and in turn, money; however all it really does is turn the country against itself more and more. I understand the people don want their leader to have done something like sleep with a porn star and then pay her off to keep his reputation is tact, but as has been stated before in this thread, it really is not the worst thing that has been done by a government official, hell, he wasn´t even in office at the time it occurred. Really all this attention to the story, which I feel like has been dragged out every night for ages now, is probably just making it harder for things to get done, because it is something else on the administrations plate that really is not needed.

[bblhead672]

The thing about all this is that everything has become so polarized. Despite that, and despite calls from the liberal media for us to come together, it seems like their only goal is to further divide us.

What the liberal media means when they call for us to come together is for those on the right to submit.

They speak out of both sides of their mouths, one side bemoans the division between us while the other side promotes and inflames the division.

[Badger52]

What the liberal media means when they call for us to come together is for those on the right to submit.
^ This 1,000 times.

Its strategy, and thus its approach, is to sow division. Then individual pockets can be defeated in detail. They have achieved much because they have distracted sufficiently that Trump has not accomplished many of the core objectives his supporters put stock in. It doesn't matter that a bi-cameral quisling congress with deeply embedded moles in key agencies have been the primary enablers to the commies. Trump, and by extension, anyone who supports him is their enemy. Harden your heart. Call them out for what they are.

I'm not into bi-partisanship right now. Those who align themselves with the demographic bblhead672 mentions above could end up in the Mariana Trench & I'd not shed a tear. I'd just have some more :munchin