View Full Version : 2 YRS Service of All??
What do you think??
At one time I was for mandatory service.
Now?? I'm starting to think this may not be so good.
I think we would end up with 50M SJW wussies with 100% Mess Hall related PTSD disability.. :mad:
Well now....since 70 odd percent of kids today are not eligible (fat/stupid/criminal records) how would that work?
During the draft every post had a confinement facility..CCF..Correctional Confinment Facility or Charlies Chicken Farm.
This is where one sent their multiple art 15 offenders before nominating them for Leavenworth.
It was always full up.
You had a 10% that were not just non starters but confrontational....Monday morning formation always had awols....it got so bad in the early 70's the Chain of Command was supposed to go looking for the meatheads before reporting them missing.
All of this BS went away with volar. All of the CCF's closed down due to no usage.
How about they can do civilian service.
How about just Basic for all and then put them on IRR status with a refresher course one week a year. This would give everyone discipline (sadly lacking in the lives of young people today), some understanding of the military, and weapons training so that they get over their irrational fear of guns. If a real draft was ever necessary, they could be called up for just MOS training.
tom kelly
03-03-2018, 13:42
The culture in the country today is driven by social media and the i-phone. Self-disclipine is lost by the time a person has the ability to login to facebook, snap-chat, instagram or some other web site that is the consensus of group think. GONE is the time when a President could "Ask not what your country can do for you ! But, what can you do for your country"! tom kelly
The culture in the country today is driven by social media and the i-phone. Self-disclipine is lost by the time a person has the ability to login to facebook, snap-chat, instagram or some other web site that is the consensus of group think. GONE is the time when a President could "Ask not what your country can do for you ! But, what can you do for your country"! tom kelly
I think you summed that up really well Tom Kelly. It will always be the few who defend this country for the many. We need military leaders who are willing to wrest back the military from the social experiment types.
RCummings
03-03-2018, 16:14
PRB,
Fort Ord CCF, still operational in '81-'82 timeframe. Bible, PMA, (Positive Mental Attitude), class and PT. The "Program" worked for me.
Respectfully,
Bob
Must have been one of the last...I suspect a Garrison Commanders / Post Commanders decision....I didn't know they were around that late.
RCummings
03-03-2018, 16:54
PRB,
I thank my lucky stars that the Army took me in and helped me to grow for those years. I paid for my mistakes with the help of the finest NCO's. None of my problems followed me after I got out, the folks that trained that child will always have my thanks. My transgressions were limited to fighting with others, nothing else. When I finished my PMA course and returned to my unit I was POSITIVE that I would not go back there.
I doubt that the "courses" taught during those days would be tolerated today but, it's probably exactly whats needed for some...
Very respectfully and with my thanks to the NCO's
Bob
Badger52
03-03-2018, 17:33
Am personally against forced conscription. Would prefer folks who want to be there. The problem has not been sufficient quantities, but a combination of lack of standards enforcement along with capricious use of the pointy end of the spear by those giving the shaft (pun intended).
PRB,
I thank my lucky stars that the Army took me in and helped me to grow for those years. I paid for my mistakes with the help of the finest NCO's. None of my problems followed me after I got out, the folks that trained that child will always have my thanks. My transgressions were limited to fighting with others, nothing else. When I finished my PMA course and returned to my unit I was POSITIVE that I would not go back there.
I doubt that the "courses" taught during those days would be tolerated today but, it's probably exactly whats needed for some...
Very respectfully and with my thanks to the NCO's
Bob
I took a few 'hard cases' there myself when in an Infantry unit at Benning....the first fun event was the strip/cavity search....the hard case persona changed almost immediately....it did help some guys out.
My issue with the draftee army was spending an inordinate amount of time with that 10% hoodlum element...that 10% could consume 90% of your day.
I took a few 'hard cases' there myself when in an Infantry unit at Benning....the first fun event was the strip/cavity search....the hard case persona changed almost immediately....it did help some guys out.
My issue with the draftee army was spending an inordinate amount of time with that 10% hoodlum element...that 10% could consume 90% of your day.
From what I have read the last draftee was taken in June of 1973. From my personal experience the "hoodlum" element was alive and well and numbered close to 40% of my Combat Engineer unit at the 101st in 1975. This was a company that was completely out of control, the Co. Commander and the 1SG had been relieved just prior to my arrival in April 75. Drug abuse was rampant and I will never forget the smell of pot wafting throughout the barracks every day after PT. We also had an big issue with prior service guys who were unable to make it on the outside so they came back as volunteers, not all of them of course but enough of them. A hard nosed C.O. and 1SG were brought in to clean house. It took about 15 months to get things under control and it became a great company after that. If you had your shit together back then the sky was the limit in the CBT Engrs. I think back then the motto may have been "Be all that you can be" trust me when I say that that was not necessarily the case in the big Army. The Army I left in early 79 was a helluva lot better Army.
Badger52
03-03-2018, 18:36
From what I have read the last draftee was taken in June of 1973. From my personal experience the "hoodlum" element was alive and well and numbered close to 40% of my Combat Engineer unit at the 101st in 1975. This was a company that was completely out of control, the Co. Commander and the 1SG had been relieved just prior to my arrival in April 75. Drug abuse was rampant and I will never forget the smell of pot wafting throughout the barracks every day after PT. We also had an big issue with prior service guys who were unable to make it on the outside so they came back as volunteers, not all of them of course but enough of them. A hard nosed C.O. and 1SG were brought in to clean house. It took about 15 months to get things under control and it became a great company after that. If you had your shit together back then the sky was the limit in the CBT Engrs. I think back then the motto may have been "Be all that you can be" trust me when I say that that was not necessarily the case in the big Army. The Army I left in early 79 was a helluva lot better Army.We had some of that as well, with those coming in (yay VOLAR!) on the heels of the draft simply because of the slim odds they wouldn't be headed to RVN. As an NCO this not infrequently caused some dirty words to be uttered but we got through it. But it also was much easier back then to "take out the trash." Now it seems like it's trying to get a Fed union-steward terminated. Fee-wings.
:rolleyes:
1stindoor
03-05-2018, 09:59
As has already been mentioned...a big issue that hasn't been addressed is how to get the young, fat, lazy, iphone, Xbox, PS1, facebook, twitter, snapchat, etc. crowd in good enough shape to even begin basic. It is a problem nationwide. Our "future" can barely pull themselves off a couch during a commercial, much less pull themselves over an obstacle.
From what I have read the last draftee was taken in June of 1973. From my personal experience the "hoodlum" element was alive and well and numbered close to 40% of my Combat Engineer unit at the 101st in 1975. This was a company that was completely out of control, the Co. Commander and the 1SG had been relieved just prior to my arrival in April 75. Drug abuse was rampant and I will never forget the smell of pot wafting throughout the barracks every day after PT. We also had an big issue with prior service guys who were unable to make it on the outside so they came back as volunteers, not all of them of course but enough of them. A hard nosed C.O. and 1SG were brought in to clean house. It took about 15 months to get things under control and it became a great company after that. If you had your shit together back then the sky was the limit in the CBT Engrs. I think back then the motto may have been "Be all that you can be" trust me when I say that that was not necessarily the case in the big Army. The Army I left in early 79 was a helluva lot better Army.
The Army did not change overnite...it took some time...but change it did.
If we went back to a draft we'd be right back there at Charlies Chicken Farm...
Badger52
03-05-2018, 10:32
Our "future" can barely pull themselves off a couch during a commercial, much less pull themselves over an obstacle.They need to be getting acknowledged for positive things, not how many "likes" they get on social-disease media. When #1 step-son was right out of HS, he spent a year on a wildlife refuge, logging, clearing, getting to blow-up beaver dams :D followed by a year working for an outfit that plied the interstate, changing flats & bustin' big truck tires. At 20yo he was in phenomenal shape for his body type & credits that with a desire to never go one step back, which in later life he credits for keeping his diabetes in check & has served has an example for his kids. Maybe instead of mandatory military there's a case for more retro-era outdoorsy "getcherassoffthecouch" programs. Hell, eliminate a gubmint agency & you could pay for that & have change left over. Otherwise we just have a category called Severely Inactive Far-from-Ready Reserve.
Just say "NO!" to mandatory service.
I'd have no problem if it was just the military.
But the left wants "service" which would be basically giving everybody out of high school a free ride at the SJW activity of their choice for two years. Few would opt for military service.
There should never be any civilian service program right out of high school. That would be the beginning on a National life payment system and socialist syphilis for all.
I'm with Pete. Just say "No"
I'm a big fan of "universal service." It doesn't have to be military service, but your ass will be doing something for two years. You can either join up and learn to defend the Country; or, you can go plant trees and build things ala the Civilian Conservation Corps. Clean cities; build parks; restore blighted neighborhoods. BUT....you will be controlled: no phones; computers; snap-chat or twatter. You'll work from sun-up to sundown with classes scattered during the day/week. You WILL have "skin in the game."
Don't want to do this? Fine. No school loans; no freebies; no EBT card; no voting; no "rights" of citizenship. I'm kind of Heinleinian in this: you must EARN your right to the table. Don't want to shoulder the load for 24 months? Fine, just don't hold your hand out asking for free shit.
I get a little bit more and more disillusioned as to my 36 years of service when I look at the snowflakes and our current society. I oft wonder if it did any good.
Badger52
03-06-2018, 07:14
There should never be any civilian service program right out of high school. That would be the beginning on a National life payment system and socialist syphilis for all.
I'm with Pete. Just say "No"Just to be clear, kid's experience I described above happened to be a regular job they were hiring for, not part of a special program, mandatory or otherwise. Not certain if, at this juncture, the presence of such opportunities would get anyone off the couch; they still have to work it. There's a number that's been tossed about, % of kids who are physically UN-fit to even get through a MEPS and I'd lament that much of that is learned behavior. Kids are on the couch because they're allowed to be.
PedOncoDoc
03-06-2018, 08:20
Just to be clear, kid's experience I described above happened to be a regular job they were hiring for, not part of a special program, mandatory or otherwise. Not certain if, at this juncture, the presence of such opportunities would get anyone off the couch; they still have to work it. There's a number that's been tossed about, % of kids who are physically UN-fit to even get through a MEPS and I'd lament that much of that is learned behavior. Kids are on the couch because they're allowed to be.
If mandatory service is put in place, and a big black mark that has implications for future careers is put on the record of every person not able to meet basic standards, perhaps schools would get back to teaching basic physical fitness, interpersonal skills and self-reliance/accountability.
We would then need to figure out what to do with the current generation....
Golf1echo
03-06-2018, 08:21
Interesting, I didn't realize those dynamics in the military from back in the 70s.
I do think a 2 year service option would be a good thing. There still is Americorp if I'm not mistaken, although to some extent it was politicized. I saw that program be very workable in the forest conservation area, it gave participants much greater access to the spectrum of management personnel that might not happen with a task oriented Summer job. I happen to think access is one of the biggest problems for the unemployed, might be naive? The work of the Civilian Conservation Corp. is amazing and empowered folks at a time when there were few options.
The Swiss have gravitated to more of the civilian activities for their national service. They have a robust infrastructure in rural areas that provides great service in times of need...flooding, snow events, emergency situations.
Junior Achievement is another organization that many friends took advantage of and observation indicated it gave them a leg up on others who were not exposed to those things.
" You don't know what you don't know".
spaike97
03-15-2018, 20:18
This is the case in China, and there are parents sending their kids to military to have them "corrected" and "educated". I always thought it's a bad idea to allow these types of people in.
It worked out for the parents but PLA ended up getting stuffed by super low-quality recruits (kids who can't get job, kids who are, well, mentally challenged and kids straight out of youth detention centers) and can't do its job anymore because its now operating more like a correction program than a fighting force. Higher ups tried to reform the military to get the stuff together but just won't work no matter how hard they try because lower enlisted and NCO are too uneducated to actually do their jobs and don't care.
If China is to go to war now these kids forced in by their parents are going to get people killed.
miclo18d
03-16-2018, 05:26
Am personally against forced conscription. Would prefer folks who want to be there. The problem has not been sufficient quantities, but a combination of lack of standards enforcement along with capricious use of the pointy end of the spear by those giving the shaft (pun intended).
The Army did not change overnite...it took some time...but change it did.
If we went back to a draft we'd be right back there at Charlies Chicken Farm...
My first trip to Ecuador showed me how the professionals and the conscripts were different. The professionals were squared away troops that were motivated and did good work, lived in “nice” barracks, got good chow at the chow hall. The conscripts were treated like slave labor, lived in bamboo huts and ate gruel. That’s the only conscript army I would want to see!
As has already been mentioned...a big issue that hasn't been addressed is how to get the young, fat, lazy, iphone, Xbox, PS1, facebook, twitter, snapchat, etc. crowd in good enough shape to even begin basic. It is a problem nationwide. Our "future" can barely pull themselves off a couch during a commercial, much less pull themselves over an obstacle.
I thought Pok-e-mon go was going to fix that!?