Teachers with concealed weapons, not best idea

[Team Sergeant]

This is the current thought but there are some issues.

Teachers do not possess the skilz to go “offensive”. 99% of the LEO’s don’t have the skilz to go offensive.

Neither are trained “killers”. Teachers and LEO’s receive “defensive” shooting training.

Google "defensive shooting schools", then google "offensive shooting schools".

Defensive shooting schools are out there by the thousands, not one listed as “offensive” shooting school. And same with the mindset, it’s defensive.


You want to defend your children, place trained combat veterans, with combat MOS’s in your schools with a short rifle. They are trained killers.

If you want to put down an active shooter in seconds, employ an offensively trained killer, not a defensively trained teacher or LEO.

My .02 take it for what it’s worth.

[bblhead672]

Except that an armed combat veteran in the school scares the left more than an armed teacher in the school.

Better to just take away everyone's guns. That's the only acceptable answer to the left.

[Team Sergeant]

It may not be the best option but is better than what most places have now.

Don't forget the church shooter in TX a few months ago was taken out by an old guy that had never been in the military and zero LE experience. He had extensive experience as an NRA shooting instructor and did some target shooting. He was cool headed enough to place the rounds in the side where the ballistic vest did not cover.

That’s nice.

“Civilians” are not trained to address idiots with guns and a standard need to be set. A civilian with zero skilz is not worth hiring to do the job. Trained attack dogs would be better than untrained civilians.

I’ve met NRA shooting instructors that are worthless and possess very little knowledge of weapons employment.


And, next time you nitpick one of my thread/comments you’ll be back on AR15.com.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Arming teachers and bus drivers (as done in Israel) with guns (to include AR-15s or better SBR select/fire) may not be the best or most feasible answer to combat the remote possibility of an armed attacker but removing the stigma around the discussion as they have in Texas and elsewhere may promote a safer school setting simply because of the deterrence value.

Could you imagine if even 1% of the school faculty were armed with a combination of open and/or concealed carry and slung long guns on your kids campus. For that burden they would receive an extra $150 a month and a box of ammo to practice. They would only be required to qualify on the LEOSA Federal firearms proficiency exam twice a year. With a 25, 50 and 100 yard requirement for a long gun or shotgun.

I’m not advocating for arming school teachers, only that the 2A should be upheld as importantly as the others taught in schools.

I have no problems with state RCWs or Penal Codes that prohibit minors, felons, and other from possessing items deemed hazardous to the educational environment.

It’s still illegal in most urban areas to discharge a firearm without due cause of protecting life.

[Trapper John]

This is the current thought but there are some issues.

Teachers do not possess the skilz to go “offensive”. 99% of the LEO’s don’t have the skilz to go offensive.

Neither are trained “killers”. Teachers and LEO’s receive “defensive” shooting training.

Google "defensive shooting schools", then google "offensive shooting schools".

Defensive shooting schools are out there by the thousands, not one listed as “offensive” shooting school. And same with the mindset, it’s defensive.


You want to defend your children, place trained combat veterans, with combat MOS’s in your schools with a short rifle. They are trained killers.

If you want to put down an active shooter in seconds, employ an offensively trained killer, not a defensively trained teacher or LEO.

My .02 take it for what it’s worth.

Good points TS! In my mind, I was thinking a "trained" teacher would react the same way you or I or our Brothers would. Of course they would not!

Then I thought about your comment re: "offensive shooting schools".

Never heard of such a thing. So I googled it thinking I might find someplace to brush up on those perishable skills - nothing!

Silly me of course there are no offensive shooting schools. That's a military skill set. Duh! Very good point!

I may be slow, but I do catch on eventually. :D

[Team Sergeant]

I've no issues with armed teachers defending themselves and their classroom, just don't expect them to go "hunting"........

[PRB]

No, they'll not be door kickers, no they will not be qualified at CQB....otoh, what 'training' did the nut job kid have?

What is the first rule of a gunfight.

At least it is a chance.

This is not a new deal...in Israel teachers have fully auto weapons in their classrooms...for good reason.

It can be done.

I think some would 'go hunting'....'someone is killing 'my' kids'.....yes, some would.

[Joker]

I say make it mandatory. Then you will see the leftwing propagandist teachers leave in protest, then we can get the good ones in.

[Team Sergeant]

No, they'll not be door kickers, no they will not be qualified at CQB....otoh, what 'training' did the nut job kid have?

What is the first rule of a gunfight.

At least it is a chance.

This is not a new deal...in Israel teachers have fully auto weapons in their classrooms...for good reason.

It can be done.

I think some would 'go hunting'....'someone is killing 'my' kids'.....yes, some would.

So where does Ms. Jones, 5'1", 98lb hide her "active shooter" death dealer? Do you think her .380 is good enough to go hunting with? There's a lot of issues arming teachers.

[Team Sergeant]

The time is now for “School Marshals”, but guess what, congressmen, senators, millionaires, and trust fund babies don’t spend 7-8 hours a day at a kids school, so I don’t ever see “School Marshals” happening.

What I’d do as prez is close the TSA, (And the ATF, EPA, BLM etc) tell the airlines they are back in charge of their own security and start the "School Marshal" program.

Had any of the last 10 school shootings occurred at harvard, yale or berkley you bet the feds would have placed a heavily armed FBI agent or twenty at these schools, permanently.

If it ain't happening to the "elite" no one really cares.

[PSM]

I say make it mandatory. Then you will see the leftwing propagandist teachers leave in protest, then we can get the good ones in.

Heck, I'd make training mandatory just to get them to get over their irrational fear of guns.

At her female-only shooting club, my wife is in charge of the "scardies" and has yet to have one, that actually shot at the range, go away afraid. She did have one refuse to go to the range after the class, though.

[PRB]

So where does Ms. Jones, 5'1", 98lb hide her "active shooter" death dealer? Do you think her .380 is good enough to go hunting with? There's a lot of issues arming teachers.

Sure there are..... but issues can be overcome with thoughtful application. Not everyone in the school would carry either.....and Mrs. Jones can carry her .45 under her suit coat.

[Combat Diver]

MSNBC is running a poll right now on about arming teachers. Its going against them so I don't think it'll every get released.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-you-agree-laws-allowing-teachers-carry-concealed-weapons


CD

[Joker]

MSNBC is running a poll right now on about arming teachers. Its going against them so I don't think it'll every get released.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/poll-do-you-agree-laws-allowing-teachers-carry-concealed-weapons


CD

63% says, "Yes, arming teachers would protect my child."

[SF_BHT]

Just voted and looks like the left is hitting the pole hard now.

[ddoering]

Just give them all a grenade and tell them that when the alarm sounds they are to toss it into the hallway and close the door.:lifter

[cbtengr]

Just voted and looks like the left is hitting the pole hard now.

Unlike elections in Illinois the poll only lets you vote once, I tried. :D

[JJ_BPK]

63% says, "Yes, arming teachers would protect my child."

It's flipped.. 638K YES vs 912K No

BUT it is MSNBC,, PR the SJW's

[DDD]

I like what they did in Northern Texas, sign is posted that reads to the effect... Some of the faculty/employees on these grounds are armed and will use whatever force is required to protect our students.

I'm not a fan of forcing anyone to arm themselves against their wishes (kind of feels left leaning to me:cool:) OTOH mandatory training is a great idea, I doubt if it would change any minds, but exposure to new ideas is what education is all about so it would be hard for "educators" to argue against it.

[casey]

I can't comment on some of our Southern or Western states school systems, but speaking from the standpoint of large NE metro public schools in Philly, Chicago etc. - the answer is a quick - oh, hell no!

Arming teachers in these gladiator academy's will lead only to:

1) Teachers beaten & robbed of their weapons
2) Daily gun thefts from secured school "lock box/lockers"

[JJ_BPK]

Arming teachers in these gladiator academy's will lead only to:

1) Teachers beaten & robbed of their weapons
2) Daily gun thefts from secured school "lock box/lockers"

I currently think we need School Marshals, built on the Federal Air Marshal model.

Not only does it offer a solution that works, BUT 99% of today's teachers are a bunch of hippies bred at the Left's SJW colleges. :munchin

[Old Dog New Trick]

Who’s an expert Twitter user here? I read them but have never tweeted anything.

We need someone adept at that thing to start something like this.

#INeedAnAR15Too or #IfOnlyIHadAnAR15

IF teachers and school staff were armed and trained in the use and deployment of similar weapons used to kill their students, fewer or zero students would ever be shot and killed at school. It’s a proven philosophy adopted by every police force to arm their officers with the same or better weapons than their adversaries. The best defense against the AR-15 is another AR-15.

In Israel and other dangerous parts of the world school teachers, bus drivers, as well as trained paid professional security forces are involved in the security and safety of young students who should be focused on their education and not worried if they will be gunned down one day by a friend or former student gone mental.

Ask yourself this one question: “Why did President Barack H. Obama and many of the presidents before him send their children to a private school with United States Secret Service agents protecting them with weapons you or I or anyone else can’t have?” Yes, the Secret Service actually do have ‘Assault Weapons’ they fire automatically if needed.

The Secret Service will do everything, everything possible just like the New York Police Department and every other police officer in the world to limit collateral death in a shootout with someone who cares Little for life but, it’s still possible and very likely that innocent victims will be injured or killed in the crossfire.

Lastly everyone should know the Supreme Court ruling ‘Warren vs District of Columbia’ it states this: “[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and the individual, no specific legal duty exists”. That means the police have no legal duty to protect you!

Don’t blame Deputy Peterson or the other Broward County Sheriff Deputies for failing to act, remember, when help is needed the police are only one and half minutes away! That doesn’t mean when they get there they will risk their safety for yours. Don’t expect the police to have anymore training than the local CCW range person dedicated to practicing and mastering their skills. The police are often under trained and more dangerous than the average CCW holder.

At the end of the day, anyone from MSNBC, CNN and Jake Tapper, Sheriff Scot Israel and his Deputies, Hillary Rodham-Clinton or hundreds of hypocritical Hollywood stars will be there to protect your children. They will also not send or give up their “armed” security details to protect your children. You really are better off to have Mrs. D. Loesch or an NRA Member standing nearby (perhaps breaking another unenforceable law) than any of the people you see protesting about gun-control.

At the beginning of everyday a teacher prepares to go to school and teach young innocent children. They would and will do anything for them each and every day. When the time comes they will stand in front of those children and lay down their life. Why?

If it’s for the kids, then let’s allow the teachers and the good citizens of this country to protect themselves and everyone around them when evil comes. Not one child should lose his or her life because they went to school today. You guys are right - ENOUGH! The Second Amendment exists for one and only one reason: FREEDOM!

[Ret10Echo]

just like the New York Police Department


Don’t expect the police to have anymore training than the local CCW range person dedicated to practicing and mastering their skills. The police are often under trained and more dangerous than the average CCW holder.



Funny you should mention. Out of curiosity I was looking into this last week.

Results from a 2008 Rand study "Evaluation of the New York City Police Department Firearm Training and Firearm-Discharge Review Process (https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG717.html)" it should be noted that:

Officers received semiannual firearms training consisting of 3-parts; a lecture, practice and qualification

Practice is 45 rounds
Qualification is 50 rounds.

I'll let you do the math on how many rounds they fire in a year (minimum required)

I asked an LE friend what their department's annual requirement was. It is 250 rounds per-year from their service weapon.

Also from the study it is found that during shootings 30% or fewer of rounds fired strike the intended target (suspect). Again, at the risk of being captain obvious here...that means 70% of rounds fired are "somewhere-else".

These are the people I'm supposed to sit and wait for when things go bad??

Riiigghhht....

[PSM]

Also from the study it is found that during shootings 30% or fewer of rounds fired strike the intended target (suspect). Again, at the risk of being captain obvious here...that means 70% of rounds fired are "somewhere-else".



In the San Bernardino shootout, the terrorists were hit a total of 42 times. The police fired 440 rounds.

[Streck-Fu]

In the San Bernardino shootout, the terrorists were hit a total of 42 times. The police fired 440 rounds.

And during the Dorner hunt, the two women delivering newspapers were shot at with 110 rounds (at reasonably close distance) with only a minor injury reported. However, several houses down range were hit as will.

[tonyz]

“School Marshalls” - highly trained and capable professionals is the best idea I’ve heard yet.

ETA: eliminate the legal fiction of “gun free zones”

Harden school entry/exits

Improve mental health treatment and get the states to report all prohibited persons to NICS

Constitutional carry across the nation for all qualified persons

[Badger52]

At the end of the day, anyone from MSNBC, CNN and Jake Tapper, Sheriff Scot Israel and his Deputies, Hillary Rodham-Clinton or hundreds of hypocritical Hollywood stars will NOT be there to protect your children. Fixed it for ya. :)

[bblhead672]

The time is now for “School Marshals”, but guess what, congressmen, senators, millionaires, and trust fund babies don’t spend 7-8 hours a day at a kids school, so I don’t ever see “School Marshals” happening.

What I’d do as prez is close the TSA, (And the ATF, EPA, BLM etc) tell the airlines they are back in charge of their own security and start the "School Marshal" program.

Had any of the last 10 school shootings occurred at harvard, yale or berkley you bet the feds would have placed a heavily armed FBI agent or twenty at these schools, permanently.

If it ain't happening to the "elite" no one really cares.

Let's not forget, many of the congressional kritters, millionaires and trust fund babies send their children to private schools protected by armed guards.
If removing guns from citizens is the right idea, lets start with all of the progressive socialists and their allies disarming all of their security staff.

[Ret10Echo]

You also miss the idea of a defense in depth. A security/resource officer/police officer INSIDE the building has already lost the advantage.

If we're done using kids lives as a political tool and when we decide as a nation to stop living in a fantasy world of "safe places" we will get on board with the rest of the world that CHOOSES to protect their children (NO SHIT FOR REAL) and ACCEPTS the FACT that there is evil in the world seeking to do harm.

The Israelis have accepted that they live in a high risk environment and act appropriately.

We act a lot more like the Nigerians where entire schools are abducted.

Nope, we won't fix the problem because fixing problems does not fit political agendas.

[PSM]

However, several houses down range were hit as will.

In San Berdoo, too.

[tonyz]

Colion Noir suggests most of the same things mentioned in this thread - he makes good points - and he may just be able to reach some folks who have been brainwashed for decades to believe that gun control is the answer.

How To Stop School Shootings
Colion Noir
Published on Feb 16, 2018

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m2cXChSsd2k&feature=youtu.be

[Trapper John]

You also miss the idea of a defense in depth. A security/resource officer/police officer INSIDE the building has already lost the advantage.

If we're done using kids lives as a political tool and when we decide as a nation to stop living in a fantasy world of "safe places" we will get on board with the rest of the world that CHOOSES to protect their children (NO SHIT FOR REAL) and ACCEPTS the FACT that there is evil in the world seeking to do harm.

The Israelis have accepted that they live in a high risk environment and act appropriately.

We act a lot more like the Nigerians where entire schools are abducted.

Nope, we won't fix the problem because fixing problems does not fit political agendas.

EXACTLY!! It's about time we call it like it is. Dana Loesch, took a very courageous position to step out and say it IMO.

Who's agenda is being served by not solving this problem?

Without mass school shootings, the Left loses their argument for disarming American citizens.

[Badger52]

Without mass school shootings, the Left loses their argument for disarming American citizens.They do not want the argument to ever go away. Get rid of school shootings? Then it's back to the inner-cities, or something else like prohibitive tariffs on manufacturing. But they will never stop because, ultimately, they shit their pants at the thought of not being the great protector who knows best for all, including what you should think & will not tolerate lack of control over those who pull the curtain back.

As TS said, teachers likely don't have the mind- or skill-set to go "hunting." But I think that when the classroom door opens from the channelized kill-zone that's been created by architects a potential shooter should be greeted with a 2-way range.

[tom kelly]

Just about everyone who replied to this thread is preaching to the choir..2. Offensive Shooting School/Skills...Paul Howe teaches a course ADVANCED TAC PISTOL/RIFLE OPERATOR... which includes clearing a room in a shoot house. It is very difficult to predict anything;Especially, if it is in the Future. That being said, BEING PROFICIENT at using a weapon for offense and defense requires skill, training, and constant dedication to practice even to the mundane "Dry Firing" @ 15-20 minutes per day. You will not be as proficient as some of the QP's on this site who have fired over a 1000 rounds/week for a lot of weeks & have focused on a target with hostile incoming fire and completed the mission. These skills don't happen naturally nor do you acquire them overnight. It is a long and difficult road to achieve the success that we are desirous of....YOUR THOUGHTS on this post? tom kelly

[Badger52]

YOUR THOUGHTS on this post? tom kellySir, I think you make some great points as to the journey to even get someone, especially not someone pre-disposed to think in threat terms, to have the resiliency to act at all. It's possible (not probable) that some could volunteer to conduct some type of training tailored to such an environment; or that the marshal idea previously suggested could be tried.

I believe the biggest obstacles to the above will be:

1) abandonment by powers-that-be of the false notion that "just because we wish it to be safe, it will be safe" and, associated with that,

2) telling the teachers' unions to pound sand as soon as someone describes the overt presence of someone with a firearm in a safe gun-free zone (oxymoron intended) as a "hostile work environment."

As tough as it might be, I don't think the toughest nut to crack is training or staffing of willing personnel, even those simply willing to defend "the Alamo" called their classroom. The mental shift has to take place first. May not be cool, but it's an info opns challenge.

[bblhead672]

Just about everyone who replied to this thread is preaching to the choir..2. Offensive Shooting School/Skills...Paul Howe teaches a course ADVANCED TAC PISTOL/RIFLE OPERATOR... which includes clearing a room in a shoot house. It is very difficult to predict anything;Especially, if it is in the Future. That being said, BEING PROFICIENT at using a weapon for offense and defense requires skill, training, and constant dedication to practice even to the mundane "Dry Firing" @ 15-20 minutes per day. You will not be as proficient as some of the QP's on this site who have fired over a 1000 rounds/week for a lot of weeks & have focused on a target with hostile incoming fire and completed the mission. These skills don't happen naturally nor do you acquire them overnight. It is a long and difficult road to achieve the success that we are desirous of....YOUR THOUGHTS on this post? tom kelly

I agree, no civilian and most ex-military can never reach the shooting and tactical skill levels of our military special operators, regardless of branch. It appears to me that 99% of "tactical" law enforcement officers can't either.

The way I see it, the school shootings happen more frequently because the shooters know they are unlikely to encounter armed resistance. If some teachers, coaches and administrators have received on-going training including high round counts on the range, I think that the potential shooters are going to find a softer target environment. This latest FL shooter either didn't consider the on-campus armed guard a threat or knew he was more of a coward than the shooter.
Yes, not all teachers will or should go offensive on a shooter. The coach in Florida would have been much more effective with a handgun as he moved toward the shooter than to die unarmed.

Obviously, the left (and allies on right) have no interest in protecting children, preventing crime or recognizing that we have the right to self defense, regardless of whether they like it or not.

[Team Sergeant]

I agree, no civilian and most ex-military can never reach the shooting and tactical skill levels of our military special operators



It's more mindset then shooting skills. It's that mindset that I'm going to "run" into that building, place yourself between evil and the innocent and quickly neutralize the shooters.

At all costs and there is no room for failure.

This is not a mindset of civilian LEO, city, state or federal.

You really cannot compare Special Operations and LEO's.

These sort of men are selected for their mindset, not shooting skills. The American LEO's are not.

[Ret10Echo]

Just about everyone who replied to this thread is preaching to the choir..2. Offensive Shooting School/Skills...Paul Howe teaches a course ADVANCED TAC PISTOL/RIFLE OPERATOR... which includes clearing a room in a shoot house. It is very difficult to predict anything;Especially, if it is in the Future. That being said, BEING PROFICIENT at using a weapon for offense and defense requires skill, training, and constant dedication to practice even to the mundane "Dry Firing" @ 15-20 minutes per day. You will not be as proficient as some of the QP's on this site who have fired over a 1000 rounds/week for a lot of weeks & have focused on a target with hostile incoming fire and completed the mission. These skills don't happen naturally nor do you acquire them overnight. It is a long and difficult road to achieve the success that we are desirous of....YOUR THOUGHTS on this post? tom kelly

Solutions:

Perimeter fencing, with vehicle and pedestrian access control points.

RFID Tagging of buses assigned to schools (with associated access control points) and driver credentials

"Credentials" for students and teachers (Temporary credentials issued for substitute teachers). Credentials are centrally managed where access privileges can be disabled by staff for students suspended or expelled. Students are issued ID's anyhow. Increase their efficiency and use.

Security at vehicular and pedestrian access points

CCTV monitoring for perimeter and access points.

Interior access controls

Metal detectors and screening at entrance to main buildings

Staged access with containment - Enter through exterior doors with secondary barrier doors further into the building.

Plan for limited access points during periods of student movement (Morning arrival, dismissal, class changes, lunch periods)

Interior controls

Upgrade classroom doors to serve as ballistic barriers

Install barricade devices to seal rooms

Implement procedures within schools for alerts and threats with focus on early detection.

Personnel

Exterior and interior security personnel with appropriate offensive engagement tactics

Select staff trained in defensive tactics (student body protection)

Require school districts to hire professional, certified physical security and force protection specialists.


Costs

1st cut would be to go through existing Dept of Education budgets and re purpose funds spent on non-educational social engineering.

2nd Tie school security with Homeland Security spending. It's not just about the border.

3rd Require future plans for school upgrades and new construction to include appropriate security planning

4th Encourage and provide tax credits for security companies to contribute to school upgrades and reinforcement (Much like Apple and Microsoft purchase IT systems for school in order to advertise and obtain tax breaks). This could be physical barriers or staff.

5th. Establish, in coordination with the DoD and VA a program to identify and prepare veterans to transition into school security roles. Consider incentives such as those available to State National Guardsmen for education benefits, etc

This as a start: It will not be a "forklift" approach as this will require a period of time to put in place as there are somewhere around 98,000 public schools in the U.S.

There are holes in the plan, but I spent a whole 12 minutes on it and most of that was the typing. I'm sure for a few million dollars some think tank in NOVA can come up with something.

[CloseDanger]

A Thought on Arming Teachers (http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?D=2018-02-26&ID=508877&HC=)

[bblhead672]

Solutions:

Perimeter fencing, with vehicle and pedestrian access control points.

RFID Tagging of buses assigned to schools (with associated access control points) and driver credentials

"Credentials" for students and teachers (Temporary credentials issued for substitute teachers). Credentials are centrally managed where access privileges can be disabled by staff for students suspended or expelled. Students are issued ID's anyhow. Increase their efficiency and use.

Security at vehicular and pedestrian access points

CCTV monitoring for perimeter and access points.

Interior access controls

Metal detectors and screening at entrance to main buildings

Staged access with containment - Enter through exterior doors with secondary barrier doors further into the building.

Plan for limited access points during periods of student movement (Morning arrival, dismissal, class changes, lunch periods)

Interior controls

Upgrade classroom doors to serve as ballistic barriers

Install barricade devices to seal rooms

Implement procedures within schools for alerts and threats with focus on early detection.

Personnel

Exterior and interior security personnel with appropriate offensive engagement tactics

Select staff trained in defensive tactics (student body protection)

Require school districts to hire professional, certified physical security and force protection specialists.


Costs

1st cut would be to go through existing Dept of Education budgets and re purpose funds spent on non-educational social engineering.

2nd Tie school security with Homeland Security spending. It's not just about the border.

3rd Require future plans for school upgrades and new construction to include appropriate security planning

4th Encourage and provide tax credits for security companies to contribute to school upgrades and reinforcement (Much like Apple and Microsoft purchase IT systems for school in order to advertise and obtain tax breaks). This could be physical barriers or staff.


This as a start: It will not be a "forklift" approach as this will require a period of time to put in place as there are somewhere around 98,000 public schools in the U.S.

There are holes in the plan, but I spent a whole 12 minutes on it and most of that was the typing. I'm sure for a few million dollars some think tank in NOVA can come up with something.

Excellent ideas. I'd add: "Ban all progressive policies that contribute to lack of identifying and arresting students who commit criminal acts."

[bblhead672]

It's more mindset then shooting skills. It's that mindset that I'm going to "run" into that building, place yourself between evil and the innocent and quickly neutralize the shooters.

At all costs and there is no room for failure.

This is not a mindset of civilian LEO, city, state or federal.

You really cannot compare Special Operations and LEO's.

These sort of men are selected for their mindset, not shooting skills. The American LEO's are not.

Thank you for that. Warrior mindset.

I hope that should the circumstances ever arise where I am faced with decision to use my guns to protect the lives of my family or others from evil doers that I will have enough of that to act instead of cower behind a car.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Tom, and to that extent all...

I think we are looking for a solution, not a perfect one, but one that will make shooting up your school less appealing to the mentally ill that right now think they are completely unopposed until the police show up. I think that should be the immediate goal of school superintendents across the country.

The message: “Enough, you can no longer come to school with a gun you bought, stole, or took from your father to commit murder of your fellow students!” You will be met by someone, someone you didn’t know or expect, who will not only stand in front of their students to protect them, but someone who will return fire.”

We blame the police and settle lawsuits all time when a cop shoots innocent bystanders. It’s become normal, so why do we automatically expect that a teacher with at least the same training or less is held to a higher standard?

It’s accepted that 99% of police officers will complete an entire career - 20, 30 years and never fire a shot in defense or line of duty.

Based on number of school shootings per number of schools it’s very likely that a teacher will shoot their weapon in defense of students with a lesser degree than winning the Mega Millions Jackpot twice!

People here have mentioned a school program similar to the Air Marshal program. Well, historically and with the exception of Miami, FL., since the inception they have only shot and killed one person. The whole purpose is deterrent! They are there, they will shoot you if you try to hijack an airplane. That’s there purpose.

It’s kind kind of hard to have adult federal agents disguised as a school student (maybe a teacher) but there is already a uniformed SRO.

I could live with a teacher who missed the attacker and killed another student if the teacher could live with their actions. We are all not perfect. Why do we expect perfection from teachers if we can make excuses for everyone else? If the teacher stopped the threat and stopped the unmitigated continuation of murder then they have been a success.

If simply being there and nothing ever happens then we have achieved the desired results.

I don’t want a warrior, I want competence and dedication to teaching and protecting my child after I drop him off for an education.

My kid sees me wear a concealed gun on my hip every day. For work, for going out, for just hanging around doing nothing. I’m armed or have access to firearms 24-hours a day. Why should he or any kid feel fear or afraid because they went to school and all of a sudden they are naked and without some kind of protection afforded to them everywhere else?

Our children have been taught to respect the police and to show respect to their teachers. Even when their actions sometimes disagree with what we teach our kids. Is it not an extension of authority that a teacher has more impact on our children than anyone else other than family? (In some cases more than family, and certainly more than law enforcement - hopefully!)

I would have no problem if even only one or two percent of my kids teachers wanted to carry a gun to work. To take the extra level of responsibility that comes with that decision and hopefully spend a little extra time at the range or taking advanced classes to become proficient. I’d be so happy to pay for that. I’d volunteer my time anytime to help the teachers in my area to become even better.

There is so much experience in the US and so many of us that would make this work. It’s only possible if we try. It’s only possible if we can convince our elected government that what they have been trying is not working it’s time to go back to tried and true programs that work.

JMO

[Box]

I am still not convinced that some of these measures are the real solution.

An effective defense demands active measures. Digging a moat and putting archers in the towers does not prevent the castle from being attacked.

Just like we would send out security and reconnaissance patrols, we have to venture out into the culture to find out why these wayward human beings decide that this is an acceptable way of dealing with life's problems.

Everyone is talking about gun control, mental health, armed educators, higher fences, and even a federal air marshal style guardian wandering the halls like some bizarre world episode of 21-Jumpstreet.


How about some "active patrolling" to combat this threat?
How about we start teaching kids about decency and morality?
How about we decide that it is time for America to stop telling kids that they are entitled to an offense-free lifestyle?
How about we give some thought to why our progeny seem to be so irrationally thin skinned?
How about we just wander out into the darkness and talk to our fucking children?

Almost everything that aMEricans are discussing right now - from sea to shining sea - is about dealing with this type of situation after the shooter has already loaded magazines and crossed the limit of advance.
...better fences to keep the shooter out
...armed educators to engage the shooter
...tougher gun laws to force the shooter to seek alternate means of violence

Hell, we are even starting to hear conversations about having Patrolman Tom Hanson, Sergeant Judy Hoffs, Officer Doug Penhall, and Detective Dennis Booker working the halls at our local metropolis City High School.
To what end?


Nobody is talking about dissecting this kids fucking brain to figure out why in the fuck he thought it was okay to shoot up his school and then stop off for a soda on his way home. Nobody is knee deep in finger pointing trying to figure out how to manage a kid that had 20-30-or more formal incidents over the last few years.
...not to mention numerous documented comments of his schoolmates saying, "everyone knew he would be the one to shoot up the school"

if you see the folks in the neighboring village building catapults and practicing their swordsmanship on an effigy of the King - guess what - they ARE NOT practicing diversity or freedom of speech.
They are getting ready to storm the fucking castle.

We see it - but we don't want to call a kid crazy - that's just so mean.
We don't want to tell someone how to raise their kids...
...well, unless its to make them read "Heather has Two Mommies" - then we are ALL ABOUT telling people how to raise their kids.

Just don't tell someone they are a problem. That shit is unacceptable.
Snowflakes are all special and don't have problems.

Now - we want to decide that humans aren't mature enough to buy firearms at 18 because obviously the only reason an 18 year old buys a firearm is to shoot up the school.
...but 14 year olds are mature enough to seek abortions without parental consent
...10-year olds are mature enough to declare their gender identity
...16-year olds should be allowed to vote because their voice should be heard


Not that anyone will listen, because no one seems to be talking to their children anyway.

[Ret10Echo]

Nobody is talking about dissecting this kids fucking brain to figure out why in the fuck he thought it was okay to shoot up his school and then stop off for a soda on his way home. Nobody is knee deep in finger pointing trying to figure out how to manage a kid that had 20-30-or more formal incidents over the last few years.
...not to mention numerous documented comments of his schoolmates saying, "everyone knew he would be the one to shoot up the school"

Not that anyone will listen, because no one seems to be talking to their children anyway.

Here ya go: (From Flashback 30 Years thread)

What happened?

My humble opinion:

1. God removed from schools and society (no standard of conduct)

2. Gratuitous violence becomes "entertainment" (movies, board games, video games)

3. Psychotropic drugs being distributed like chicklets (pharmacologically induced violence)

4. Emotional emasculation of the human male (not seeing females doing these things.....). Despondency isolation.


and I'll add

5. Parents who have abdicated their position as parent (Yeah, it takes a village to raise an idiot... or in this case a homicidal sociopath/psychopath). Apparently your iPad is not doing a good job raising your child, but I guess it gives you more free time to Fakebook.


and the finale'
- F-A-M-E baby..... The social-media "like" culture ignores me and makes me "feel" bad so I'll make myself important. Watch this....

[tonyz]

All valid points made and spot on.

Concur that this is a cultural problem of epidemic proportions - and this must be acknowledged and addressed by leadership.

The good folks on this site recognize that it is much easier for the left to blame a weapon, ban it and move on.

Passing a feel good law is so much easier than cultural self reflection. Here’s the model for failure:

First ban AR’s.
Next shooting is with semi-auto rifle not an AR...ban all semi-auto rifles.
Next shooting involves semi-auto pistols...ban all semi auto pistols.
Next shooting involves shotguns...ban all shotguns.
Next shooting involves revolvers...you see where this is going.
Then, the next shooter is 22 years old not 21...
Schools harden and lose favor, then malls, then public squares, then voting places, etc., etc., etc.,

Then, a big ass fertizler bomb goes off or a water supply is poisoned, or worse...thousands dead and more injured...and the left pats themselves on the back...at least it wasn’t an AR...they are deniers and fools.

Our culture must reflect and address root causes and not symptoms...until then disarming law abiding and mentally stable citizens does nothing to truly address the problems we face today.

[Team Sergeant]

I think most of us would agree, that allowing teachers to carried concealed is allowing them the chance to protect themselves, and in turn, their classroom.

It should also allow for someone else to pick up their kids, drop them off , armed.

It should become a normal armed carry zone. That in itself would deter some of the cowards from going there with evil intent.

[PSM]

School Armory:

[Old Dog New Trick]

School Armory:

What to do 1.2 million slightly used M9 pistols.

[Storm]

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.

Our local school Board of Ed just spent a ridiculous amount of money creating a "protective vestibule" at the front entrance to the high school. As a local town councilman, I had the opportunity to go and view it, and afterwards we were encouraged to attend the BOE meeting. While they were proclaiming how much safer the school would be with the protective enclosure before entering the school, with the bulletproof glass, unarmed security guard, camera, etc....I made an unforced error, and asked a question.

I asked how the shiny new defensive vestibule was going to protect the 15 to 20 foot or so of glass windows on either side of it that have no protection, or the other 12 entrances to the school were going to be protected, of which, 10 were unlocked and accessible to anyone walking in off the street. 2 of these entrances are on either side of the front of the school, providing an immediate, and easily identifiable route to circumvent the new "protective vestibule."

At least they are jacking up their portion of the tax rate to the 2.5% cap limit again this year. :eek:

[Badger52]

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.You're not alone. This doesn't just exist at local level with schools; it's a product of being behind the curve in threat assessment. One of the last projects I closed out at an Army base was a "new standards" post-9/11 design building that incorporated a boatload of "blast-resistant" glass on the exterior side of offices & created a nice single channelized halllway with 'nodes' off it. (I called them target clusters.) And the individual branch offices could not lock their doors from the inside if something came in off that hallway.

For those inside, looking at their handy DoD wallet-card, even the Incredible Hulk couldn't throw a desk chair through that new glass to escape. Employees were told to throw a stapler or something when the bad guy came in. Took me 2 years (making myself very unwelcome in certain circles) to get interior locks on those doors and only then because the SRC at Ft Sam happened.

IMO one of the mindset changes that has to happen is that people in schools (or someone they hire) must be willing to take their imagination to places they don't want to go. You cannot allow those who hold sway over such things to lapse backwards into "but we wish (along with saving the pink unicorns) we didn't have to do this."

[Old Dog New Trick]

As for hardening schools, another note is that we need the right people designing these things. From what I have seen, there is no common sense whatsoever with these types of "hardenings," at least where I am currently at in New Jersey.

Our local school Board of Ed just spent a ridiculous amount of money creating a "protective vestibule" at the front entrance to the high school. As a local town councilman, I had the opportunity to go and view it, and afterwards we were encouraged to attend the BOE meeting. While they were proclaiming how much safer the school would be with the protective enclosure before entering the school, with the bulletproof glass, unarmed security guard, camera, etc....I made an unforced error, and asked a question.

I asked how the shiny new defensive vestibule was going to protect the 15 to 20 foot or so of glass windows on either side of it that have no protection, or the other 12 entrances to the school were going to be protected, of which, 10 were unlocked and accessible to anyone walking in off the street. 2 of these entrances are on either side of the front of the school, providing an immediate, and easily identifiable route to circumvent the new "protective vestibule."

At least they are jacking up their portion of the tax rate to the 2.5% cap limit again this year. :eek:

They must have hired an expert and former or current “director level” consultant from DHS/TSA. That sounds like the same kind of rational used to protect all sorts of National assets. Harden the front door but leave all the others open.

[Badger52]

Harden the front door but leave all the others open.Pick this man up & send him to the "We Are Customer-Oriented" re-education camp.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Pick this man up & send him to the "We Are Customer-Oriented" re-education camp.

But but but we have a diversity hiring program in place now. We hire straight outta Africa and West Asia and give them badges to protected and sensitive areas. It’s a business model where the people footing the bill get betrayed and harassed and are simply provide with a 1-800-EAT-SH!T customer service line.

I really think our liberal school administrators and city officials think the same way. Hey we got the levee approved to tax the county 2% more for school security so let’s show them what they got. Meanwhile the teachers get a small raise and a new microwave in the break room. Nothing changed nothing changes.

[Streck-Fu]

I think it is far worse than that. They checked the box so they actually believe they did accomplish something. They are so stupid they can not reason someone would not come into the entrance they guarded and break the rules. Much like the gun debate. They can not get it in their heads someone gets a gun some other place than a gun store. Stupid is the only true definition. Ignorant means they lack knowledge, stupid means they are incapable of learning.

The equivalent:

[Ret10Echo]

Exactly. I am not being sarcastic or joking in any way shape or form for once.

Post 9-11 we had the "homeland security" carpet-baggers unleashed across the U.S. and because there was no PLAN you ended up with fences that just "ended" and bulletproof doors mounted in balsa-wood frames.

Money spent.... Yaay.. "Victory"

Streck Fu.... I was thinking more like the attached: But yeah :D

[Old Dog New Trick]

No, liberalism is a mental illness and the ultimate decline in conscious thought and rational thinking.

To do the same thing over and over expecting a different result is insanity.

We have not only lied to ourselves now what the problem is and is not, we have spent billions on technology, training, and understanding what causes one person to become a homicidal psychopath and the others who go on living in a condition of suppressed mental acuity.

Back before background checks, before age limits, before waiting periods, before all of the anti-gunners passage of just one more (unenforceable) law. Humanity ruled!

There used be a moral compass that guided people to make decisions based on long standing rules of decency. In a community people joked or believed “that boy ain’t right in the head” and everyone watched out for him. No one would have allowed him to buy own or possess weapons of any kind. And if found to possess them stripped them away again and again until reaching the point that they could no longer control the village idiot. Village idiots didn’t live long and prosperous lives they died early or were not seen again. Some incarcerated some institutionalized...some just disappeared.

Now we let them roam free and no one is accountable for them. No one is responsible for making sure they take the medication that keeps them from going beyond the medicinally induced lethargy that life must be good. Whatever ails you these days there is a pill for that: bi-polar, psycho, other anti social psychotic behavior.

All the liberal utopian dreams of gun-control have failed! All the police training (money, time, and resources) on active shooter (those actively shooting and killing) drills and response to have failed. All of the good idea fairy dreams of banning purses, backpack, heavy coats...etc, at ball games and movie theaters and national landmarks have not deterred one (okay maybe one, the kid that blew himself up accidentally at the football game outside because he didn’t have a ticket) but all those others who were not dissuaded by laws, rules, and inconveniences placed on them by liberal talking heads.

Every single one of the shooters we know about right now who have either survived or died had red flags leading up to their carnage and assault on others. Every single one! Think about that for a moment. And yet all of them legally purchased the weapons they used from licensed gun dealers who I might add didn’t seem to care if that boy who just walked into their store “didn’t seem quite right in the head?” But hey he filled out the forms and passed the government watchdog lists (even they had recently been or currrently are being investigated by the FBI) it must be okay...his money is green.

But, let’s not address that issue let’s “ban guns” because that will fix all the other problems we don’t want to deal with. In fact banning guns will make it easier for the liberals to ultimately get what they (think) they want. CONTROL!

[tonyz]

We've already banned illegal drugs...
We've already banned illegal immigrants...

Could walk out my door and find both within 15 minutes...

We've already banned firearms on school grounds...
We've already banned discharging firearms inside city limits...
We've already banned murder...

How's that working out?

We once banned alcohol...

We know how that turned out.

[cbtengr]

So lets say we turn our schools into fortresses that defy invasion by the evil doers. How do we propose to adequately protect the masses during the CF that takes place at the height of arrivals in the morning and departures at the end of the day? The Vegas shooter did all his damage in the great outdoors.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Grazing fire is so much more effective than plunging fire.

Just sit outside the wire and wait for the afternoon bell to ring.

[tonyz]

Sort of like pushing a beach ball underwater...it’s gonna pop up somewhere...similar issue at airports...the lines and crowds at departures pre-security screening are significant and are NOT sterile.

[TWITCHY]

So lets say we turn our schools into fortresses that defy invasion by the evil doers. How do we propose to adequately protect the masses during the CF that takes place at the height of arrivals in the morning and departures at the end of the day? The Vegas shooter did all his damage in the great outdoors.

CBTENGR, this has always been my concern when picking up my daughter from school. The only thing stopping a vehicle attack is a 4" curb (not too effective). Again, this would be an attack that does not include guns and, most likely, would be way more devastating. Honestly, one vehicle could kill 50 kids -- ON the Spot.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Lucky for us these idiots have not figured this out......yet. They have also not figured out a 12 gauge pump at close range is more devastating than a 223........yet.

Shush

[Joker]

Grazing fire is so much more effective than plunging fire.

Just sit outside the wire and wait for the afternoon bell to ring.

Rental truck packed with anfo driven or parked outside the gym (ala McV).

[Box]

Instead of an armed faculty, Dr. David Helsel from the Blue Mountain School District has floated a solution that sounds like something dreamed up by Ernest T. Bass...

http://wnep.com/2018/03/22/superintendent-says-students-are-armed-with-rocks-in-case-of-a-school-shooting/

[Team Sergeant]

I'd be happy with a baseball bat in every classroom......... or for the NE part of the US, a hockey stick. :munchin

[SF_BHT]

I'd be happy with a baseball bat in every classroom......... or for the NE part of the US, a hockey stick. :munchin

Make sure they are not those scary Black Bats.... we can not have Assault Bats around our kids and schools:D it might be a trigger and give them PTSD:rolleyes:

[JJ_BPK]

Make sure they are not those scary Black Bats.... we can not have Assault Bats around our kids and schools:D it might be a trigger and give them PTSD:rolleyes:

In Pink??
I present the SJW Dental Slugger :lifter

[Joker]

In Pink??
I present the SJW Dental Slugger :lifter

Now that is so calming! I feel so refreshed... :D

[Joker]

I bring to you, the AR15 Assault Bat with a large capacity magazine, bayonet lugs, and two handed grips. :D

[cbtengr]

With hockey sticks and bats you got to get up close, however with rocks...........

"‘It’s better than crawling under a desk and getting shot': Pennsylvania school district arms students with STONES so they can 'fight off' active shooters"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5537963/Pennsylvania-school-district-arms-students-STONES-fight-active-shooters.html

[Team Sergeant]

Where's the good old wrist rocket when you need one.......... ;)

[JJ_BPK]

Where's the good old wrist rocket when you need one.......... ;)

Sky Blaster??
https://www.*******.com/watch?v=tjWVuvGTSHI

For the Hard Core, there is

Joerg Sprave (https://www.*******.com/channel/UCVZlxkKqlvVqzRJXhAGq42Q)

Week-End Special:

The Full Auto, Hi-Capacity, Assault, Black Ops, SEAL NINJA, Pencil Shooter Ballistic Jelly Massacre (https://www.*******.com/watch?v=aDy2A2IbanA&t=7s)

[Sdiver]

I'd be happy with a baseball bat in every classroom.........

Pretty sound idea IMO.
It's rumored that this guy used to be a gym teacher ...

;)

[G2squared]

I grew up with a dad that built gun safes for a living and being told that locks only keep honest people honest. And having discussions around preventing easy breaching and general security of home and person. Spending a lot of time thinking about what bad people can and have done and how to prevent it.
Arming the "right" people in a school might work to some degree until it doesn't. FL school had a security guy onsite and look at what happened. Just arming someone doesn't mean they will respond in a way that will prevent people from being killed or injured. This includes police and military. And what happens when that armed person get disarmed by an individual, or several, will ill intent?
Securing schools could work if properly done, until someone skips a step and it doesn't. And it will take A LOT of money and serious education of the citizens on why it cost so much to actually make their children's school safe and not just a few cheap, ineffective feel good measures. Lipstick on Pig.
Changing how our citizens think about personal security (even as little as being aware of their surroundings) and basing decisions on actual facts rather than emotions? That could lead to some changes that could be more effective. Knowing that laws are broken in every instance and that no laws could have been passed that would have prevented these, should logically lead to the understanding that more laws are not the answer. Maybe shoring up the ones we have? That would certainly have reduced the number of incidents. When the Gov't doesn't even talk to itself though, AF not sending information to FBI database as it's supposed to(just one example), what can we use as an example for what has worked? Right hand not talking to the left. We don't even track down and prosecute the "attempted to purchase but got caught by the background check" people.
The system fails again because processes already in place aren't being followed.
Meanwhile home schooling is looking better.


G2

[NurseTim]

No, they'll not be door kickers, no they will not be qualified at CQB....otoh, what 'training' did the nut job kid have?

What is the first rule of a gunfight.

At least it is a chance.

This is not a new deal...in Israel teachers have fully auto weapons in their classrooms...for good reason.

It can be done.

I think some would 'go hunting'....'someone is killing 'my' kids'.....yes, some would.

When folks say, “Well, that’s how the do it in, fill in the blank, when it come to heavily restricting firearms, I say, “yeah, but this ain’t, fill in the blank, it’s America and we have a completely different mindset than they do.

Unfortunately this applies here as well imo. In Israel, there is compulsory service which means training and familiarity with the weapon platform. The average, hell the majority of the teachers are fully indoctrinated leftists and would faint dead away at the sight of a firearm, much less one of those scary “murder machines”.

Would arming teachers, those willing to take the training, work, I don’t know. But to expect them to have the skill set of the QP’s here is mind boggling. Does this mean they shouldn’t be armed, I can’t say, I’m one of the sheep.

[rsdengler]

I bring to you, the AR15 Assault Bat with a large capacity magazine, bayonet lugs, and two handed grips. :D

You need one with Long Spikes, for those nice, deep, puncture wounds to the skull area.....:p

[Razor]

Would arming teachers, those willing to take the training, work, I don’t know. But to expect them to have the skill set of the QP’s here is mind boggling. Does this mean they shouldn’t be armed, I can’t say, I’m one of the sheep.

See, this is an important aspect that I believe is completely misunderstood by some who oppose allowing teachers to be armed on school grounds. I can't speak for the whole group of folks calling to eliminate the 'gun free zone' mandate for schools, but I personally have no expectation that arming teachers means that they would be responsible for hunting down a shooter attacking a school. Rather, my desire is to give those school faculty members that WANT to have a means of protecting themselves and those immediately around them the opportunity to do so, instead of having no other option than sacrificing their own lives as a bullet trap in an effort to save the lives of the kids in their care. Allowing those who qualify for a concealed carry permit in their state of residence to carry a handgun on school grounds (you know, the way it used to be prior to 1990) simply provides citizens concerned with self-defense a means to effectively counter a school shooter threatening them, no more.

[Team Sergeant]

Would arming teachers, those willing to take the training, work, I don’t know. But to expect them to have the skill set of the QP’s here is mind boggling. Does this mean they shouldn’t be armed, I can’t say, I’m one of the sheep.

Arming teachers does two things, one: Effectivity ends the "gun free zone" in schools. That in itself give the spineless little cowards notice. And two: allows them to defend themselves.

Nothing more and nothing less.

[PedOncoDoc]

Arming teachers does two things, one: Effectivity ends the "gun free zone" in schools. That in itself give the spineless little cowards notice. And two: allows them to defend themselves.

Nothing more and nothing less.

The high probability of an immediate armed response to hostility works wonders as a deterrent - statistics have consistently shown that violent crime declines after concealed carry permits are allowed.

[Team Sergeant]

The high probability of an immediate armed response to hostility works wonders as a deterrent - statistics have consistently shown that violent crime declines after concealed carry permits are allowed.

Dat's a fact Jack!

You're really not going to attempt to argue with logic and facts now are you? Liberals will have none of that!

[PedOncoDoc]

Dat's a fact Jack!

You're really not going to attempt to argue with logic and facts now are you? Liberals will have none of that!

I've been put on the ivory tower's naughty list before for this very reason. ;)

[Team Sergeant]

This is "progressive"......

Waytt Earp is pleased.

I may send those folks an email with an offer to train any "teacher" for free. ;)



Tombstone Unified posts warning sign that staff is armed
By: Tucson News Now

Posted: Mar 29 2018 05:11AM MST
Updated: Mar 29 2018 08:14AM MS

TOMBSTONE, Ariz. (TUCSON NEWS NOW) - In the wake of last month's school shooting in Florida, people in Tombstone are taking matters into their own hands.
As Tombstone Unified School District students walked onto their campuses this week, a shocking sign could be seen posted on the surrounding fences.


The signs read, "WARNING: Some T.U.S.D staff may be armed and will use whatever force necessary to protect our students."

While the extent to which teachers and school staff are armed is unknown, the sign has been the source of controversy for both residents and visitors alike.


http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/tombstone-unified-posts-warning-sign-that-staff-is-armed

[PSM]

This is "progressive"......

Waytt Earp is pleased.

I may send those folks an email with an offer to train any "teacher" for free. ;)



Tombstone Unified posts warning sign that staff is armed
By: Tucson News Now

Posted: Mar 29 2018 05:11AM MST
Updated: Mar 29 2018 08:14AM MS

TOMBSTONE, Ariz. (TUCSON NEWS NOW) - In the wake of last month's school shooting in Florida, people in Tombstone are taking matters into their own hands.
As Tombstone Unified School District students walked onto their campuses this week, a shocking sign could be seen posted on the surrounding fences.


The signs read, "WARNING: Some T.U.S.D staff may be armed and will use whatever force necessary to protect our students."

While the extent to which teachers and school staff are armed is unknown, the sign has been the source of controversy for both residents and visitors alike.


http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/tombstone-unified-posts-warning-sign-that-staff-is-armed

Oh, I really doubt that there is a controversy with the residents. It's the Snow Birders who get upset. I've seen grandma's sporting real Colt SA Army .45LCs there and wearing period dress. I don't have a Western gun but, if I get one, I will defiantly wear it OC in Tombstone! :D

[bblhead672]

If only Democrat Joe Biden hadn't introduced the Gun Free School Zone act in 1990, perhaps we wouldn't have to be listening to juveniles tell adults how we should live our lives and put up with their rants.

[PedOncoDoc]

If only Democrat Joe Biden hadn't introduced the Gun Free School Zone act in 1990, perhaps we wouldn't have to be listening to juveniles tell adults how we should live our lives and put up with their rants.

I wonder if he will advocate for a warning shot from armed personnel in schools?