View Full Version : Florida High School Shooting...Should we talk about it yet?
Old Dog New Trick
02-14-2018, 17:16
16-Dead, 14-Injured (estimated)
18y/o - Shooter apparently was in JROTC previously at school.
Sounds like semi-auto rifle with controlled (trained) three round bursts fired in multiple succession.
One witness reported the fire alarm was initiated seconds before the shooting started. Which would indicate an organized ambush in the hallway.
Shooter walked from school before police arrived.
Democrats calling for gun control before the bodies have cooled.
Thoughts?
Very sad situation for folks involved.
The alleged shooter has been captured.
Parkland is an upscale neighborhood in Broward County.
I wholeheartedly agree with the points made in the excerpts below from the letter dated January 29, 2013 - these shootings are a complex sociological problem.
There will be loud calls for gun control.
“First, it is important that we recognize that this is not a gun control problem; it is a complex sociological problem. No single course of action will solve the problem. Therefore, it is our recommendation that a series of diverse steps be undertaken, the implementation of which will require patience and diligence to realize an effect. These are as follows:
1. First and foremost we support our Second Amendment right in that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.
2. We support State and Local School Boards in their efforts to establish security protocols in whatever manner and form that they deem necessary and adequate. One of the great strengths of our Republic is that State and Local governments can be creative in solving problems. Things that work can be shared. Our point is that no one knows what will work and there is no one single solution, so let’s allow the State and Local governments with the input of the citizens to make the decisions. Most recently the Cleburne Independent School District will become the first district in North Texas to consider allowing some teachers to carry concealed guns. We do not opine as to the appropriateness of this decision, but we do support their right to make this decision for themselves.
3. We recommend that Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) laws be passed in every State. AOT is formerly known as Involuntary Outpatient Commitment (IOC) and allows the courts to order certain individuals with mental disorders to comply with treatment while living in the community. In each of the mass shooting incidents the perpetrator was mentally unstable. We also believe that people who have been adjudicated as incompetent should be simultaneously examined to determine whether they should be allowed the right to retain/purchase firearms.
4. We support the return of firearm safety programs to schools along the lines of the successful "Eddie the Eagle" program, which can be taught in schools by Peace Officers or other trained professionals.
5. Recent social psychology research clearly indicates that there is a direct relationship between gratuitously violent movies/video games and desensitization to real violence and increased aggressive behavior particularly in children and young adults (See Nicholas L. Carnagey, et al. 2007. “The effect of video game violence on physiological desensitization to real-life violence” and the references therein. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology 43:489-496). Therefore, we strongly recommend that gratuitous violence in movies and video games be discouraged. War and war-like behavior should not be glorified. Hollywood and video game producers are exploiting something they know nothing about. General Sherman famously said “War is Hell!” Leave war to the Professionals. War is not a game and should not be "sold" as entertainment to our children.
6. We support repeal of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. This may sound counter-intuitive, but it obviously isn’t working. It is our opinion that “Gun-Free Zones” anywhere are too tempting of an environment for the mentally disturbed individual to inflict their brand of horror with little fear of interference. While governmental and non-governmental organizations, businesses, and individuals should be free to implement a Gun-Free Zone if they so choose, they should also assume Tort liability for that decision.
7. We believe that border states should take responsibility for implementation of border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of firearms and drugs. Drugs have been illegal in this country for a long, long time yet the Federal Government manages to seize only an estimated 10% of this contraband at our borders. Given this dismal performance record that is misguided and inept (“Fast and Furious”), we believe that border States will be far more competent at this mission.
8. This is our country, these are our rights. We believe that it is time that we take personal responsibility for our choices and actions rather than abdicate that responsibility to someone else under the illusion that we have done something that will make us all safer. We have a responsibility to stand by our principles and act in accordance with them. Our children are watching and they will follow the example we set.”
Old Dog New Trick
02-14-2018, 17:31
I remember signing that. It went nowhere farther than the people who can implement it. Sad that this is “common sense” and goes nowhere.
I remember signing that. It went nowhere farther than the people who can implement it. Sad that this is “common sense” and goes nowhere.
ODNT, that’s one reason I reproduced it for new folks to read.
There are well thought out, experienced and loving answers in that letter - but politicians and bureaucrats must have the courage to read and truly understand the points made in that letter - and not kick the can down the road.
Early reports are in now that a modern sporting rifle was used.
Was watching Fox earlier and saw it unfold.
Thoughts and Prayers out to those families of the dead children.:(
Senseless tragedy. Cannot even imagine the grief.
Holly
I heard on my drive home that the shooter was 19, had made pervious threats against students and that he had be banned from being on school property. Sounds like there were quite a few warning signs. I would be interested to know if he was taking prescription mood altering drugs.
Very sad...
Was talking to my daughter and she said that in her school the policy is to E&E is possible and as a last resort hunker down in place.
Student: "Everyone predicted it..." https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/963899957559390210
And in the NW corner of the country: Grandmother foils alleged Everett school shooting plot (http://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/grandmother-foils-alleged-everett-school-shooting-plot/281-518703506)
Old Dog New Trick
02-14-2018, 20:24
Maybe it’s time for facial recognition cameras and software to be used as one more layer of security in school security plans.
We’re already close to a CCTV police state on campuses from elementary schools to college but it’s still in the reactive state not the proactive state.
The technology is there 24/7...it only takes an IT person to program an alert when someone is banned from the grounds. It won’t matter if it’s tomorrow or next year the camera is on duty.
Very sad situation for folks involved.
The alleged shooter has been captured.
Parkland is an upscale neighborhood in Broward County.
I wholeheartedly agree with the points made in the excerpts below from the letter dated January 29, 2013 - these shootings are a complex sociological problem.
There will be loud calls for gun control.
“First, it is important that we recognize that this is not a gun control problem; it is a complex sociological problem. No single course of action will solve the problem. Therefore, it is our recommendation that a series of diverse steps be undertaken, the implementation of which will require patience and diligence to realize an effect. These are as follows:
1. First and foremost we support our Second Amendment right in that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.
2. We support State and Local School Boards in their efforts to establish security protocols in whatever manner and form that they deem necessary and adequate. One of the great strengths of our Republic is that State and Local governments can be creative in solving problems. Things that work can be shared. Our point is that no one knows what will work and there is no one single solution, so let’s allow the State and Local governments with the input of the citizens to make the decisions. Most recently the Cleburne Independent School District will become the first district in North Texas to consider allowing some teachers to carry concealed guns. We do not opine as to the appropriateness of this decision, but we do support their right to make this decision for themselves.
3. We recommend that Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) laws be passed in every State. AOT is formerly known as Involuntary Outpatient Commitment (IOC) and allows the courts to order certain individuals with mental disorders to comply with treatment while living in the community. In each of the mass shooting incidents the perpetrator was mentally unstable. We also believe that people who have been adjudicated as incompetent should be simultaneously examined to determine whether they should be allowed the right to retain/purchase firearms.
4. We support the return of firearm safety programs to schools along the lines of the successful "Eddie the Eagle" program, which can be taught in schools by Peace Officers or other trained professionals.
5. Recent social psychology research clearly indicates that there is a direct relationship between gratuitously violent movies/video games and desensitization to real violence and increased aggressive behavior particularly in children and young adults (See Nicholas L. Carnagey, et al. 2007. “The effect of video game violence on physiological desensitization to real-life violence” and the references therein. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology 43:489-496). Therefore, we strongly recommend that gratuitous violence in movies and video games be discouraged. War and war-like behavior should not be glorified. Hollywood and video game producers are exploiting something they know nothing about. General Sherman famously said “War is Hell!” Leave war to the Professionals. War is not a game and should not be "sold" as entertainment to our children.
6. We support repeal of the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. This may sound counter-intuitive, but it obviously isn’t working. It is our opinion that “Gun-Free Zones” anywhere are too tempting of an environment for the mentally disturbed individual to inflict their brand of horror with little fear of interference. While governmental and non-governmental organizations, businesses, and individuals should be free to implement a Gun-Free Zone if they so choose, they should also assume Tort liability for that decision.
7. We believe that border states should take responsibility for implementation of border control laws to prevent illegal shipments of firearms and drugs. Drugs have been illegal in this country for a long, long time yet the Federal Government manages to seize only an estimated 10% of this contraband at our borders. Given this dismal performance record that is misguided and inept (“Fast and Furious”), we believe that border States will be far more competent at this mission.
8. This is our country, these are our rights. We believe that it is time that we take personal responsibility for our choices and actions rather than abdicate that responsibility to someone else under the illusion that we have done something that will make us all safer. We have a responsibility to stand by our principles and act in accordance with them. Our children are watching and they will follow the example we set.”
Thank you for posting this, as I was going to ask the Professionals, about possible solutions/preventions to the problem. I may have missed it, but what is the source of this letter?
It is also infuriating that the extreme taxes most of us pay to school districts are used for things that will not prevent this from happening (see Allen, Tx football stadium http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-stadium-arms-race-snap-story.html). You know, sports are good, but I would rather pay for an ARMED security presence at my kid's school. Or invest in the firearm safety programs that you mentioned. Or any number of the solutions that are mentioned in the letter you posted. Again, thank you.
TWITCHY below is a link to the letter you inquired about.
Protecting the Second Amendment – Why all Americans Should Be Concerned
29 Jan 2013
Page 1 of 3
Protecting the Second Amendment – Why all Americans Should Be Concerned
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40772&highlight=amendment
ETA a PDF version of letter below.
http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24117&d=1359481849
Tonyz, thank you for the reply and the link. As far as I’m concerned, the proposed solutions encompass the complexity of the problem, focus on the various aspects of the problem, and offer practical solutions in agreement with the Constitution.
Do you know the degree of circulation the letter has received in political circles (Congress, state legislatures)? Also, with permission from this forum, I would like to submit the letter to my State and US representatives.
Thank you for your time.
Mikal
Maybe it’s time for facial recognition cameras and software to be used as one more layer of security in school security plans.
We’re already close to a CCTV police state on campuses from elementary schools to college but it’s still in the reactive state not the proactive state.
The technology is there 24/7...it only takes an IT person to program an alert when someone is banned from the grounds. It won’t matter if it’s tomorrow or next year the camera is on duty.
Such a tectonic change since we were all kids so long ago.
I like the idea of enhanced security, as prices for it drop.
But visiting the US now and seeing modern school designs seems like an analog to US embassies around the world that shifted from being architecturally cool beacons of the USA to zombie bunker practical.
I really like the book Tribe by Sebastian Junger.
I think his anthropology/sociology documentation of soldiers applies to all in a way.
Some of us(including most on this forum) belong to one or more tribes.
Increasingly, most civilians don’t.....and that can include Vets who are challenged to integrate into a new tribe and/or lose their old one(s).
Most of us need to feel necessary and a part of something more.
I think this loss of personal tribe is playing a considerable factor in depression, mental illness, and quite possibly a major contributing factor to many of these school shootings.
I’m left think of MIST, Mechanism, Injury, Symptom, Treatment.
Maybe one of the Symptoms is schools shootings.
If that’s the case, then attacking 2A is not a treatment, but a placebo.
I’d like to see effort on preventing the Mechanism of, and Injury.
Do you know the degree of circulation the letter has received in political circles (Congress, state legislatures)? Also, with permission from this forum, I would like to submit the letter to my State and US representatives.
Thank you for your time.
Mikal
TWITCHY, I don’t know the extent of circulation but the boss or someone who does know will probably be along shortly.
In 2013 the message was clear (I hope this helps):
“1100 Green Berets Signed this Letter
We have a list of all their names and unlike any MSM outlets we can confirm that over 1100 Green Berets did sign. The list includes Special Forces Major Generals & Special Forces Command Sergeants Major down to the lowest ranking "Green Beret".
The letter stands for itself.
Read it and send it everywhere.
Team Sergeant”
Streck-Fu
02-15-2018, 07:24
JFC....LINK
A tragedy years in the making combined with psych drugs....the guardians let him walk out with the gun on a school day...
Friends said he spoke little of his relatives. He and his brother were adopted when they were young by Lynda and Roger Cruz, of Long Island, New York, according to relatives. They raised the boys in Parkland.
Roger Cruz died over a decade ago and Lynda struggled with the boys, said Barbara Kumbatovich, a former sister-in-law. “She did the best she could. They were adopted and had some emotional issues,” she said.
Kumbatovich said she believed Nikolas Cruz was on medication to deal with his emotional fragility. “She was struggling with Nikolas the last couple years,” she said.
After his mother died, Cruz moved in with a friend, whose family in Broward took him in and even gave him own bedroom. He worked at a dollar store and went to a school for at-risk youth, said Fort Lauderdale attorney Jim Lewis, who is representing the family.
Cruz had his AR-15, but the family asked that gun remain locked up in a cabinet, Lewis said. On Wednesday morning, Cruz slept in and gave only a cryptic reason why.
“He said, ‘It’s Valentine’s Day and I don’t go to school on Valentine’s Day,’” Lewis said.
The family had no idea what was going to happen, Lewis said. “Nobody saw this coming,” Lewis said. “They’re shocked.”
There's a judiciary element in this mess that will probably be harder to resolve than how to discover and lock up the crazies: If a sick or twisted person is reported to any agency because they have made idle threats and expressed wild imaginings on FB or on campus as this maniac did, how long will it take to get to a judge off his/her pompous ass, and how long will it take the judge before action can be taken? Our judiciary system stinks to high heaven. Ambulance chasers can tie up ANY issue for years under the guise of protecting the privacy or the rights of their client, and I personally don't think they give a shit. People know how worthless the courts are in dispensing justice. Right now all an atheist group has to do is send a letter to a high school whining about one word in a graduation ceremony to terrify the school into making sweeping changes. They aren't afraid of the atheist but they are terrified of the lousy courts! The 6th Amendment guarantees right to a speedy trial, but what guarantees the public's right to speedy justice and protection? Our entire judiciary and lawyer profession should be ashamed of themselves. It permeates not only the judiciary but the legislature. Imagine if all the lawyers in Congress were fired. (Be still my beating heart!) In practice the lawyers and judges do not enable justice, rather that gaggle of pond scum focuses on getting rich, and justice be damned. JMHO. (End rant.)
Team Sergeant
02-15-2018, 21:56
JFC....LINK
A tragedy years in the making combined with psych drugs....the guardians let him walk out with the gun on a school day...
Stupid people have been doing stupid things for thousands of years. You think that's going to change anytime soon?
Makes me very sad every time innocent people, especially children, are murdered by a spineless coward.
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 09:17
Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel made pointed comments on gun control, saying, "If you are an elected official and you want to keep things the way they are and not do things differently, if you wanna keep the gun laws as they are now -- you will not get re-elected in Broward County."(ABC News)
Let’s also hope that Sheriff Scott Israel (an elected official) is out of a job too saying nonsense like this.
(Correction) Wasn’t it just reported that ‘Parkland’ was the “SAFEST CITY IN FLORIDA.” What changed? :confused::rolleyes:
Streck-Fu
02-16-2018, 09:38
I wonder what the oath of office contains for his position. Does he swear and affirm to support what ever popular position is necessary to endure re-election? That replaced support and defend the Constitution and ensure public peace?
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 10:00
This is a gut wrenching read (amazingly from the The Washington Post) armed with only a radio a school staffer saw the shooter before the shooting started and knew that the shooter wasn’t supposed to be on school campus; especially with a backpack. Only the person he or she called on the radio wasn’t the person to hit the panic button.
‘Code Red!’ Despite preparations, no one was ready for what happened at Douglas High. - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/code-red-despite-preparations-no-one-was-ready-for-what-happened-at-douglas-high/2018/02/15/50862852-1294-11e8-9065-e55346f6de81_story.html
Change radio for pistol and the outcome of this event reads very different. (“In Florida today a school massacre was averted by the quick actions of an armed school staffer who encountered a former student who was armed with an ‘assault weapon’ and hundreds of rounds of ammunition.” The student dropped his bags and fled from the school without a shot fired. Police later arrested the student who has a history of mental illness and family issues. Thank goodness for this alert teacher who was paying attention at the last threat awareness briefing six-weeks ago and chose to carry their weapon today.)
bblhead672
02-16-2018, 10:20
If anti-gun people get their way:
Headlines February 15, 2020
In another senseless school mass battery acid attack, 17 students were blinded and 3 died as a result of their injuries.
Mom's Demand Action spokesperson Shannon Watts release the following statement: "The battery companies must be held responsible for these horrible attacks upon our children. There is no reason in 2020 that batteries must still be available that contain dangerous materials that can be used to kill our children."
Nope, you still don't get to take away our guns.
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 10:52
^^^naw they will have to ban pressure cookers from home economics and potluck lunches before they solve little Jonny Rotten-Appleseed from killing his classmates with a gun.
As one writer recently posted in the news - thank God these shooters continue to arm themselves with the AR-15...there are weapons more destructive and just as easy to acquire out there.
bblhead672
02-16-2018, 11:31
NO! (https://christianmerc.blogspot.com/2018/02/no.html)
It is difficult in the aftermath of the Parkland, FL shooting to have to come up with such a stance, but the collectivist left leaves no alternative. No, we will not give up our guns, not now, not if you have another hundred school shootings. Columbine was the worst school shooting in history nearly 19 years ago, 19! In the aftermath, while law enforcement stood about outside the building unsure of whether to enter, or where, or if the shooting was ongoing, America has still not solved the issue of school shootings.
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 12:01
For cross thread points (FBI Conspiracy to Destroy America!) this is getting to be somewhat ridiculous.
September 2017 - Bail Bondsman calls FBI to report threat on his blog “I’m going to be a professional school shooter” Nikolas Cruz. FBI talks to source can’t backtrack IP address or run name against several databases without a hit or so many hits that it can’t identify Nikolas Cruz. Okay that’s plausible.
Even though Nikolas Cruz bought his first or another of several legally purchased firearms filling out a 4473 for each one within the past year. All approved by - the FBI.
Huh, the FBI owns that database!
Second, neighbor calls police who call FBI in January 2018 to report potential problems of aggression by person named Nikolas Cruz in Parkland, FL. No matches or hits in FBI database.
From other unconfirmed sources - the police were called to houses in which Nikolas Cruz lived on more than 36 occasions in past seven years.
Hmm?
Nikolas Cruz - kicked out of school and put on school RSOs watchlist. All school faculty notified that student poses ‘real and imminent threat to school’ report immediately if seen on school campus or with a backpack.
Nikolas Cruz - once a member of the Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps - now I don’t know someone with ROTC/JROTC experience help me. Is your name, SSN, DOB and other personal information entered into an Army Database when you join the program and/or removed from the program for mental or disciplinary reasons?
Back to FBI - needles in haystacks don’t need to prick you to make you all look incompetent these days. Maybe you should stop looking for DB Cooper and Anti-Muslim movie makers, or spending so much time allowing a criminal to go free while investigating people who had not committed a crime before you made them up.
JMO but this is in the YGTBSM category of incompetence on the FBIs part. Fort Lauderdale-Airport, Orlando-Nightclub, Boston-Bombers, Ft Hood-Maj Nidal, Benghazi, Clinton (both) so many others...
P.S. I normally don’t say the shooters name but in this instance I think it’s important to state the obvious. There is one Nikolas (Nicholas) Cruz that should have had a long discussion with someone in LE up to and including the FBI long before he was ‘allowed’ by a strange family in an adoption case to “keep a firearm locked up in a cabinet and possess the key.”
bblhead672
02-16-2018, 13:29
For cross thread points (FBI Conspiracy to Destroy America!) this is getting to be somewhat ridiculous.
September 2017 - Bail Bondsman calls FBI to report threat on his blog “I’m going to be a professional school shooter” Nikolas Cruz. FBI talks to source can’t backtrack IP address or run name against several databases without a hit or so many hits that it can’t identify Nikolas Cruz. Okay that’s plausible.
Even though Nikolas Cruz bought his first or another of several legally purchased firearms filling out a 4473 for each one within the past year. All approved by - the FBI.
Huh, the FBI owns that database!
Second, neighbor calls police who call FBI in January 2018 to report potential problems of aggression by person named Nikolas Cruz in Parkland, FL. No matches or hits in FBI database.
From other unconfirmed sources - the police were called to houses in which Nikolas Cruz lived on more than 36 occasions in past seven years.
Hmm?
Nikolas Cruz - kicked out of school and put on school RSOs watchlist. All school faculty notified that student poses ‘real and imminent threat to school’ report immediately if seen on school campus or with a backpack.
Nikolas Cruz - once a member of the Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps - now I don’t know someone with ROTC/JROTC experience help me. Is your name, SSN, DOB and other personal information entered into an Army Database when you join the program and/or removed from the program for mental or disciplinary reasons?
Back to FBI - needles in haystacks don’t need to prick you to make you all look incompetent these days. Maybe you should stop looking for DB Cooper and Anti-Muslim movie makers, or spending so much time allowing a criminal to go free while investigating people who had not committed a crime before you made them up.
JMO but this is in the YGTBSM category of incompetence on the FBIs part. Fort Lauderdale-Airport, Orlando-Nightclub, Boston-Bombers, Ft Hood-Maj Nidal, Benghazi, Clinton (both) so many others...
P.S. I normally don’t say the shooters name but in this instance I think it’s important to state the obvious. There is one Nikolas (Nicholas) Cruz that should have had a long discussion with someone in LE up to and including the FBI long before he was ‘allowed’ by a strange family in an adoption case to “keep a firearm locked up in a cabinet and possess the key.”
Based upon the lengths the FBI has gone to: 1. Not find any evidence of wrong doing by Hillary Rodham Clinton, and 2. Work like crazy to find any evidence of wrong doing by Donald J Trump; I would say the FBI is fully on board with the leftist progressive socialist agenda to bring down the United States and abolish the freedom and liberty of its citizens.
If we survive this shit, I hope the new "By the people, for the people" government will know better than to create a federal police and other spying agencies to oppress the freedom and liberty of the people.
GratefulCitizen
02-16-2018, 16:29
Ban public schools.
Let private schools establish there own security and acceptance/expulsion standards.
No more school shootings.
It's not worth one life.
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 16:56
Ban public schools.
Let private schools establish there own security and acceptance/expulsion standards.
No more school shootings.
It's not worth one life.
How about if we just ban liberals thinking they know jackshit about security and psychology.
But I like the idea and the tax savings of making schools private and privately funded. Every American should be able to send their kids to a school like the Bushes and Obamas did, with Secret Service Agents watching over them.
Until then let’s let teachers, coaches, and the janitor exercise their 2A rights to defend themselves and others around them.
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 18:18
I feel so bad for these kids. The brainwashing is so complete that they will miss seeing the forest for the trees.
They have been led to believe by the likes of Jimmy Kibbles and other elitist (protected by armed security 24/7) that if they protest loud enough and often enough that 241 years of history can be changed by the last “17” lives lost. So sad :(
If you want change, really really really want change...protest your local government to...incarcerate for life, institutionalize for life, or simply execute those who have no conscience or sense of purpose. And if you like that idea rank yourself right up there with the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the California insane asylums of the 1950 because they tried that too.
Our forefathers warned us of this so many years ago that one could honestly say nothing has changed only the time it takes to come full circle.
Trapper John
02-16-2018, 19:00
Glad to see a portion of the letter we wrote back in 2013 re-posted in this thread.
I would like to opine that the dialog and subsequent debate today is much, much different than that in response to the Sandy Hook shooting that precipitated the letter in 2013. Look carefully at the points we raised. These are exactly the major points being discussed and appear to be becoming a consensus of the majority of the talking points that are gaining traction.
Can I prove that there is a direct cause and effect relationship? No.
But I can say the letter has been "quietly" distributed very broadly. Has it influenced the thinking and the subsequent discussion today? Maybe so.
That my friends is the MO of the "Quiet Professionals" and this is a typical outcome.
Plant some simple truth seeds, tend the garden, be diligent, and patient. Usually, the efforts will bear fruit. :D
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 19:08
TJ, one can hope but I remain unconvinced that our letter has reached the people necessary for change.
Trapper John
02-16-2018, 19:10
Tonyz, thank you for the reply and the link. As far as I’m concerned, the proposed solutions encompass the complexity of the problem, focus on the various aspects of the problem, and offer practical solutions in agreement with the Constitution.
Do you know the degree of circulation the letter has received in political circles (Congress, state legislatures)? Also, with permission from this forum, I would like to submit the letter to my State and US representatives.
Thank you for your time.
Mikal
Please share it far and wide. Thank you. :lifter
Old Dog New Trick
02-16-2018, 19:59
Does this kid deserve a dirt nap; now, after the fact? Yes.
Did this kid deserve a dirt nap before Wednesday? Yes. He was a clear and present danger and made that abundantly clear. Someone should have taken care of that before it became a problem. (Something that’s wrong with a civilized country.)
Are we going to hold accountable the justice system before, at the point of failure, or after it’s clear that the system failed? I sure as hell hope so. I hope that every person, police officer, sergeant or detective, agent, special agent, supervisor or a Special Agent in Charge is relived of duties and fired without retirement benefits. You fucked up and innocent people died. There is no greater excuse for failing to do due diligence and due process. You had one job to do and you failed! The rest of your distinguished career means nothing.
That is the necessary change needed to reduce future incidents of failure to respond to “imminent danger” from a known and reported multiple sources.
I’m not asking for miracles or forbearance but justice for the kids who lost their lives in another senseless tragedy brought to us by the last administration.
Please share it far and wide. Thank you. :lifter
Thank you, sir. I will do just that.
ODNT, there was an obvious failure in Florida, but it appears to have raised awareness in other regions. This (http://http://www.newschannel10.com/story/37526789/hereford-student-arrested-accused-of-making-terror-threat-on-snapchat) happened, today, about 35 minutes from My home in Amarillo.
ETA: Sorry, my link didn’t work. Here is the actual link. http://www.newschannel10.com/story/37526789/hereford-student-arrested-accused-of-making-terror-threat-on-snapchat
Badger52
02-17-2018, 07:09
I debated about putting this here, or in the forum where The Letter is but thought it germane here, particularly since I heard yesterday on the scanner that someone had called county dispatch & wanted to speak to an officer regarding a young person with some violent postings. So the awareness from this latest shooting is out there, no denying. However, for the winner with my morning coffee comes this FB posting from a FL middle-school Teacher of the Year (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/florida-teacher-years-gun-violence-post-goes-viral-after-school-shooting.html). Didn't want to settle for what the news decides so snagged the whole thing from Fakebook; Kelly Guthrie Raley's words are worth a read IMHO:
Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.
Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!
I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine...it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.
There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school...because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!
Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?
As a child, I never thought to kill another person.:cool:
As a 54 y/o male shit slips through my mind where I think: "Jesus fucking Christ! That kid is so fucked up...shoot that mother fucker right now."
The next thing you know, I'm in church, HR or some higher institutionalized of "higher" learning being told the kid needed help.:confused:
Old Dog New Trick
02-17-2018, 11:27
I debated about putting this here, or in the forum where The Letter is but thought it germane here, particularly since I heard yesterday on the scanner that someone had called county dispatch & wanted to speak to an officer regarding a young person with some violent postings. So the awareness from this latest shooting is out there, no denying. However, for the winner with my morning coffee comes this FB posting from a FL middle-school Teacher of the Year (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/16/florida-teacher-years-gun-violence-post-goes-viral-after-school-shooting.html). Didn't want to settle for what the news decides so snagged the whole thing from Fakebook; Kelly Guthrie Raley's words are worth a read IMHO:
Badger - I have a 10y/o boy with an active 10y/o boys imagination - especially about guns. I can’t tell you how many times in Washington state he crossed lines with the school. Enough to know and hear from teachers, principles and special education teachers exactly what this teacher speaks of.
So many parents today are so out of touch with their kids. And those that have to have the occasional parent teacher conference throw a hissy fit that they are being pulled away from their day time TV program because the school isn’t raising their kids for them. I got thanked so many times for knowing and being interested in my kids issues that it was kind of embarrassing - although I’ll never be embarrassed because of my kid.
Since we moved to Texas and he started in a new school with vastly improved ethical standards and student teacher relationships all the problems of being a boy have vanished. He is thriving now where before it just wasn’t good to be the son of a soldier or law man.
My ‘sig line’ has always been “have no regrets” I have many regrets that the liberals in Washington had a negative impact on my son in his early years. It was a good school if compared to horrible schools but it was still a poisonous environment.
Come to think of it...all or most of these issues are a somewhat modern events that started with the election and presidency of Bill Clinton and the ethical laps that followed.
I’ve said before, that before the 1994 AWB the AR-15 was an unpopular and expensive (even at $500) weapon that didn’t garner the interest of most. The Democrats made it popular by trying to ban it.
Was it all just a devious master plan?
Is the ‘deep state’ so insidious at the FBI/DOJ that Waco, Ruby Ridge, Columbine, Benghazi - 9/11 is all part of a master plan...?
When the investigation gets completed will we ever know just how much the FBI knew before Majorie Stoneman HS made headlines?
Yes, I can see how the tin foil hat looks.
Old Dog New Trick
02-22-2018, 00:52
How to make sure your older brother and Army vet really hates having a younger brother.
17y/o makes threat to shoot up school after being told to remove headphones.
Sheriff dept gets warrants and finds treasure trove of weapons in house.
http://abc13.com/student-accused-of-threat-allegedly-had-ar-15s-at-home/3121827/
Bonus points for where the 90 pristine metal 30-round mags come from. :munchin
"...As expected – buried deep inside a Miami Herald article about the Parkland school shooter, Nikolas Cruz, and a school board questioning their progressive policies, we find the following:....."
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/21/its-too-late-broward-county-school-board-beginning-to-admit-their-mistakes/
"....[…] Absent Cruz’s school records, it is hard to say precisely when Cruz’s behavior became an acute problem for teachers and administrators. Disciplinary reports obtained by the Herald show that at Westglades Middle School, which he attended in 2013, he’d been cited numerous times for disrupting class, unruly behavior, insulting or profane language, profanity toward staff, disobedience and other rules violations.
Records show the behaviors continued at Marjory Stoneman Douglas [High School], which he attended in 2016 and 2017 before being transferred, with discipline being dispensed for fighting, profanity, and an “assault.” It appears the Jan. 19, 2017 assault resulted in a referral for a “threat assessment.” A few months later, Cruz landed at an Off Campus Learning Center, where he remained for only about five months. ..."
Old Dog New Trick
02-22-2018, 04:45
It’s really amazing that we can see all of this, and not do anything about it.
It’s more amazing right now that we are criminalizing a rash of minors who are too stupid to realize they have destroyed their life calling wolf.
I’m watching this CNN Town Hall in Sunrise Florida (taped earlier.) It’s a must watch event for the times. Know your enemy! See your allies. These kids are so misguided and being guided by the left. They mean well they are hurting but they are ignorant.
Sen. Rubio and Dana Loerch (NRA) were great. Sen. Nelson some other Dem dweeb and mostly the Sheriff “Isreal” are complicit in the failures that happened in Boward Co.
Sheriff Isreal is a complete fucking idiot! It’s no wonder these school shootings keep happening. Not a federal problem a local problem.
Again Dana Lorech, almost makes me want to join the NRA again.
If a school bus crashed and burned every person on board...not a single one of these kids would be protesting Blue Bird Motor Coach Company. Not one!
It’s really amazing that we can see all of this, and not do anything about it.
It’s more amazing right now that we are criminalizing a rash of minors who are too stupid to realize they have destroyed their life calling wolf.
I’m watching this CNN Town Hall in Sunrise Florida (taped earlier.) It’s a must watch event for the times. Know your enemy! See your allies. These kids are so misguided and being guided by the left. They mean well they are hurting but they are ignorant.
Sen. Rubio and Dana Loerch (NRA) were great. Sen. Nelson some other Dem dweeb and mostly the Sheriff “Isreal” are complicit in the failures that happened in Boward Co.
Sheriff Isreal is a complete fucking idiot! It’s no wonder these school shootings keep happening. Not a federal problem a local problem.
Again Dana Lorech, almost makes me want to join the NRA again.
If a school bus crashed and burned every person on board...not a single one of these kids would be protesting Blue Bird Motor Coach Company. Not one!
I woke to a post that my Mom shared on FB yesterday about local protests, and I was listening to the speeches the kids were making yesterday.......lack of critical thinking and emotional knee jerking appeared to rule the day.
I woke to a post that my Mom shared on FB yesterday about local protests, and I was listening to the speeches the kids were making yesterday.......lack of critical thinking and emotional knee jerking appeared to rule the day.
I too listened to some of their speeches, naive to say the least. We have visited this subject before and shall visit it again.
bblhead672
02-22-2018, 09:46
I didn't watch the Fake News Network's "Town Hall" last night, played it out in my head before hand and turns out it went pretty much like I imagined it would.
Squishy Rubio demonstrates why Trump beat him.
Dana Loesch speaks intelligently about facts that the left refuses to acknowledge.
Everyone else acts like leftards.
Two reasons for not watching/caring:
1. CNN = Fake News Network devoted to promoting the cause of progressive socialism.
2. High school kids = don't know what the hell they're talking about 95% of the time, much less on a subject they've been indoctrinated against having open minds about.
(The 95% may be too generous, it could be 99%)
TOMAHAWK9521
02-22-2018, 10:37
Come to think of it...all or most of these issues are a somewhat modern events that started with the election and presidency of Bill Clinton and the ethical laps that followed.
I’ve said before, that before the 1994 AWB the AR-15 was an unpopular and expensive (even at $500) weapon that didn’t garner the interest of most. The Democrats made it popular by trying to ban it.
Was it all just a devious master plan?
Is the ‘deep state’ so insidious at the FBI/DOJ that Waco, Ruby Ridge, Columbine, Benghazi - 9/11 is all part of a master plan...?
When the investigation gets completed will we ever know just how much the FBI knew before Majorie Stoneman HS made headlines?
Yes, I can see how the tin foil hat looks.
It's funny you mention that. I found it puzzling when I began to notice the trend during the Klinton regime and all those affiliated, where it seemed that they were creating distress at varying degrees and in multiple areas of the American culture, then taking to the airwaves to identify said problems and coming up with convenient solutions. Solutions to problems that never existed before, or at least were relatively limited or isolated.
This was also the time when the militia movement took off and everyone was seeing black helicopters everywhere, so I was wondering if, perhaps, I had some undetected foil lining in my ball caps. I also wondered about how much I might have been oblivious to that was going on in the country at the time. It seemed odd that I could have been that clueless. But looking back, I recall Wayne LaPierre said something to the effect that he believed Bill Klinton was not bothered by school shootings but rather saw them as acceptable losses in order to achieve a greater agenda.
Ret10Echo
02-22-2018, 11:03
It's funny you mention that. I found it puzzling when I began to notice the trend during the Klinton regime and all those affiliated, where it seemed that they were creating distress at varying degrees and in multiple areas of the American culture, then taking to the airwaves to identify said problems and coming up with convenient solutions. Solutions to problems that never existed before, or at least were relatively limited or isolated.
MSM Love for these incidents.
Give a watch here (https://youtu.be/cpG07bEkvBk) (Youtube link)
Trapper John
02-22-2018, 13:55
Tomahawk and Ret10echo:
But looking back, I recall Wayne LaPierre said something to the effect that he believed Bill Klinton was not bothered by school shootings but rather saw them as acceptable losses in order to achieve a greater agenda. and
Give a watch here (Youtube link)
Youse guys nailed it! :lifter
If anyone can post Wayne LaPierre's address to CPAC this morning please do and everyone give a listen. This is our new reality.
Let the culture wars begin! :lifter
LaPierre at CPAC below - I haven't watched it yet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LJlD8O1YxM
Trapper John
02-22-2018, 14:12
Thanks tonyz!
bblhead672
02-22-2018, 15:25
LaPierre at CPAC below - I haven't watched it yet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8LJlD8O1YxM
Excellent speech. Identified the real issues.
Plenty of great lines, I liked this one enough to write it down:
Real freedom requires protection of all of our rights. A Second Amendment isn't worth its own words in a country where all of our other individual freedoms are destroyed.
Old Dog New Trick
02-23-2018, 05:18
If you Twitter read this: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/966854507744374784
Straight letter by author:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html
If 10% of it is true we have a bigger problem than 17 dead kids.
Corruption that could very well go all the way back to the last administrations DOJ/FBI and Chicago’s criminal school boards.
This and both Broward and Dade Counties LEA and school boards need to be investigated by congress.
If you Twitter read this: https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/966854507744374784
If 10% of it is true we have a bigger problem than 17 dead kids.
Corruption that could very well go all the way back to the last administrations DOJ/FBI and Chicago’s criminal school boards.
This and both Broward and Dade Counties LEA and school boards need to be investigated by congress.
This problem sounds like it might go back to the Obama administration ending zero tolerance policies....fundamentally transforming American school system into war zones.
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2016/09/14/obama-administration-to-schools-clear-limited-roles.html
Racial Quotas:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/white-house-to-offer-new-rules-school-discipline/
Making schools more dangerous:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schools-more-dangerous-thanks-to-obamas-racial-policies/article/2581002
Stop using police force:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-in-schools-justice-department_us_57d0641ce4b0a48094a735c5
Old Dog New Trick
02-23-2018, 06:50
This problem sounds like it might go back to the Obama administration ending zero tolerance policies....fundamentally transforming American school system into war zones.
https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2016/09/14/obama-administration-to-schools-clear-limited-roles.html
Racial Quotas:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/8/white-house-to-offer-new-rules-school-discipline/
Making schools more dangerous:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schools-more-dangerous-thanks-to-obamas-racial-policies/article/2581002
Stop using police force:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-in-schools-justice-department_us_57d0641ce4b0a48094a735c5
So at least I’m not going crazy. Multiple sources!
There certainly appears that some big federal grant money was made available. Information below directly from USDOJ site. Would local pols ever (a Sheriff in FL is an elected position) manipulate stats for grant money?
Would Statists/globalists/progressives/socialists ever view a school resource officer to be a sort of “political officer” as well as a law enforcement officer?
Would political correctness ever infect decision making?
“The Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS Office) is the component of the U.S. Department of Justice responsible for advancing the practice of community policing by the nation's state, local, territorial, and tribal law enforcement agencies through information and grant resources.
Since 1994, the COPS Office has invested more than $14 billion to help advance community policing.”
https://cops.usdoj.gov/about
So at least I’m not going crazy. Multiple sources!
You are not crazy.
Google hasn't scrubbed articles on the zero tolerance policy quite yet...though it may in the works ;)
It is very interesting to read up on the Obama Administrations Zero Tolerance policy, and then see what happened in Florida.......Cause and Effect.
Streck-Fu
02-23-2018, 08:44
The Sheriff's needs to be charged with negligence and the whole office swept clean. Same with the FBI...
Every fucking one failed. LINK (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html)
And long before Cruz embarked on the worst school shooting in Florida history, Broward Sheriff’s Office deputies had multiple warnings that the 19-year-old was a violent threat and a potential school shooter, according to records released Thursday.
In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz “could be a school shooter in the making,” but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons. Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school” — intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.
“I’m completely disgusted,” said Broward County Commissioner Michael Udine, a former mayor of Parkland whose daughter attends Stoneman Douglas. “There is nobody in authority talking to each other and every organization that had a chance to stop this completely failed our children from top to bottom.”
........
Peterson — named school resource officer of the year for Parkland in 2014 — was in another building, dealing with a student issue when the shots sounded. Armed with his sidearm, Peterson ran to the west side of Building 12 and set up in a defensive position, then did nothing for four minutes until the gunfire stopped, the sheriff said.
On Thursday, Israel said surveillance footage captured the officer’s inaction. Asked what Peterson should have done, Israel said: “Went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer.”
.....
Then came the first serious red flag.
........
In February 2016, someone reported that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school.” A deputy was shown an Instagram photo of a “juvenile” with guns. Investigators say they don’t know which school was the possible target.
According to BSO, a deputy talked to the anonymous caller, then determined that Cruz “possessed knives and a BB gun.” That information was forwarded to Peterson at the Douglas campus, police said. The internal affairs unit is now investigating why nothing came of the report.
Then, on Nov. 30, an unidentified caller from Massachusetts called to say Cruz was collecting guns and knives. The caller said “Cruz will kill himself one day and believes he could be a school shooter in the making.”
BSO, however, never even wrote a report on the tip. Internal affairs detectives are now trying to figure out what happened. Deputies Edward Eason and Guntis Treijs are on restricted duty while detectives examine their handling of the two potential school shooter tips. After the shooting, the tipster was re-interviewed and said BSO told him to report Cruz to the Palm Beach Sheriff’s, as the teen was then living in the neighboring county.
There, Cruz was also on the radar of law enforcement.
The family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother called the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. One member of the family told police that Cruz had threatened to “get his gun and come back” and that he had “put the gun to others’ heads in the past.”
Trapper John
02-23-2018, 09:05
So at least I’m not going crazy. Multiple sources!
Well, ODNT, not sure you're not but this isn't evidence that you are. :D
Trapper John
02-23-2018, 09:17
For some time I have suspected this is a case of social engineering Munchausen syndrome. IIRC, Bill Clinton even made a comment that this was acceptable risk back in the '90s.
As Ram Emanuel told Obama, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."
Even if you need to create it!
The Sheriff's needs to be charged with negligence and the whole office swept clean. Same with the FBI...
Every fucking one failed. LINK (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html)
Combine you’re Miami Herald article with excerpt below from NYT article...there is so much fail by so many humans no wonder some want to scream about the firearm to divert attention...
Howard Finkelstein, the Broward County public defender, whose office is representing Mr. Cruz, said...
“This kid exhibited every single known red flag, from killing animals to having a cache of weapons to disruptive behavior to saying he wanted to be a school shooter,” Mr. Finkelstein said. “If this isn’t a person who should have gotten someone’s attention, I don’t know who is. This was a multisystem failure.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html
Badger52
02-23-2018, 13:18
As Ram Emanuel told Obama, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."
Even if you need to create it!Fast & Furious stands as a prime example.
Badger52
02-23-2018, 13:29
Would local pols ever (a Sheriff in FL is an elected position) manipulate stats for grant money?Am certain you're savvy enough to know they would.
Every Memorial Day & Independence Day and at the county's local gathering in the park for "Nat'l LE Night Out" (with other first responder groups, SKYWARN, and local citizenry with their little kids etc. on hand to watch an overweight tacti-cool bunch throw a flashbang next to a schoolbus), and going down main streets behind the VFW's Color Guard, someone can check a box for "MRAP Deployed." Freestuff - yeah, baby!
Old Dog New Trick
02-23-2018, 13:36
^^^And that’s just another part of the issue.
Funds misdirected away from original purpose and never ending spending on programs that don’t meet the smell test.
You bring up another mostly overlooked issue and that is the school bus. Our school buses are vulnerable to attack twice each day multiplied by number of schools serviced. Make the school campus a hard target just find the nearest soft target.
Am certain you're savvy enough to know they would.
Every Memorial Day & Independence Day and at the county's local gathering in the park for "Nat'l LE Night Out" (with other first responder groups, SKYWARN, and local citizenry with their little kids etc. on hand to watch an overweight tacti-cool bunch throw a flashbang next to a schoolbus), and going down main streets behind the VFW's Color Guard, someone can check a box for "MRAP Deployed." Freestuff - yeah, baby!
Yup. Bureaucrats of all types manipulate metrics every damn day.
And, Broward County bureaucrats, federal and state bureaucrats are gonna be scrambling on this one. BIG TIME !
Badger52
02-24-2018, 11:05
The DoJ seems to have been weaponized....
LOL reading the last sentence of your HuffPo quote; my reaction is that it's anyone's guess at this point whether Sessions' DoJ is going to do anything about anything.
Old Dog New Trick
02-24-2018, 12:20
Thanks for those links.
History should show Obama to be one of the most divisive and subversive domestic terrorists this nation has had to endure - whether it will or not remains to be seen. The cultural battle wages on.
Fixed that for you.
Team Sergeant
02-24-2018, 13:32
huffingtonpost.co infowars.co
The next one that quotes the above sites for "news" is going to get banned. They are not credible sources for anything but bullshit.
LOL reading the last sentence of your HuffPo quote; my reaction is that it's anyone's guess at this point whether Sessions' DoJ is going to do anything about anything.
I think we are on the same page on this in that the DoJ is so embedded with self serving liberal zealots that Sessions has little chance of cleaning house....either that or he is incompetent....or maybe both.
But it is not just the DoJ, it is all of the Agencies that come to mind, NOAA, IRS, CIA, FBI, NSA, DOE, etc the preverbal inmates are running the asylum, which is the case with most if not all of the US Government.
I think we are on the same page on this in that the DoJ is so embedded with self serving liberal zealots that Sessions has little chance of cleaning house....either that or he is incompetent....or maybe both.
I was always suspicious of his quick endorsement of Trump. I think that he wanted to ensure that, if Trump won, he'd get DoJ. Now we may know why.
Badger52
02-26-2018, 11:32
Interesting interview here from one of the teachers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPvYxTa1ph4) (skip to 0:42 if you want).
Also, timeline from Cruz' arrival to arrest (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-82-minutes-florida-shooting-20180215-story.html).
This kid texts a friend from inside his Uber ride, then arrives & gets himself into helmet & vest & starts shooting withiin 2 minutes from curbside. Ditches everything & is able to walk out blending like a student. Things that make ya say "hunh."
I was always suspicious of his quick endorsement of Trump. I think that he wanted to ensure that, if Trump won, he'd get DoJ. Now we may know why.
That is a very good point, and one I had not considered until recently. I believe there is an old saying jobs/power that whomever asks for it the most are the ones you want least to have it.
As it stands Sessions appears to be a point of constriction i.e. a bottle neck that slow down progress. This could be intentional by design, or the job is far beyond his abilities and he bit off more than he can chew.
Personally, I would like to see some early morning no knock raids, perps straight to a cell, no bond, solitary confinement and no visitors.
Report: Parkland Shooter Did Not Use High-Capacity Magazines
By MAIREAD MCARDLE
National Review
March 1, 2018 6:12 PM
The gunman used only 10-round magazines.
The Parkland shooter did not use magazines larger than 10 rounds, but gun-reform lobbyists are calling on lawmakers to ban higher-capacity magazines after the Valentine’s Day tragedy.
The 19-year-old school shooter who killed 17 in Florida on Valentine’s Day had 150 rounds of ammunition in 10-round magazines. Larger ones would not fit in his bag, Fla. state senator Lauren Book revealed.
<snip>
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/report-parkland-shooter-did-not-use-high-capacity-magazines/
Badger52
03-02-2018, 11:38
Critics of high-capacity magazines have said the gun jamming is a reason to ban large magazines because a jam would have stopped the shooting if the gunman had used long rounds of ammunition where he did not have to reload. The Parkland shooter used only smaller magazines, however.:rolleyes: I don't even know where to highlight her paragraph, it is so badly written.
Please folks, if you can't cook, stay out of the kitchen.
:rolleyes: I don't even know where to highlight her paragraph, it is so badly written.
Please folks, if you can't cook, stay out of the kitchen.
Yup. “Non-gun” folks writing about things they know little about...my bad...I forgot to provide the disclaimer.
:rolleyes: I don't even know where to highlight her paragraph, it is so badly written.
Please folks, if you can't cook, stay out of the kitchen.
The editors fixed it. The article has been corrected.
Badger52
03-02-2018, 13:23
The editors fixed it. The article has been corrected.Cool beans.
Cool beans.
They obviously follow PS.com. :lifter
Old Dog New Trick
03-03-2018, 07:33
While this is a feel good story about the survival of one person, it asks or begs the asking of several more questions.
How a first responder disregarded an order and saved a Florida school shooting victim's life - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/health/florida-shooting-paramedic-trnd/index.html
Namely who “ordered” EMS to take GSW victims to a children’s hospital 20 miles further away then the ‘nearest’ hospital with a trauma capability?
As an EMT-P myself (once upon a time) you did load and goes to the nearest trauma center.
Another question that needs to be asked is why did they establish a ‘triage’ tent for so few patients with such a large medical capability?
I have some of my own beliefs and why the article mentions “organized chaos” what I hear through more official sources is that it was anything but ‘organized’!
A lot of those kids died where they lay because BCSO delayed entry and treatment. JMO
So much for showing initiative in Broward County.
Two SWAT officers responded to the Parkland rampage uninvited. They’ve been punished.
BY NICHOLAS NEHAMAS
nnehamas@miamiherald.com
Miami Herald
March 07, 2018 12:08 PM
As word spread that an armed attacker was shooting up a Parkland high school, two members of the Miramar Police Department’s SWAT team responded to the scene.
They had been training in nearby Coral Springs earlier that day and wanted to help end a deadly mass shooting that claimed 17 lives.
But their own commander said he didn’t know they were going. And the Broward Sheriff’s Office — worried about over-crowding a chaotic scene with law enforcement officers — didn’t ask for them to show up. BSO already had its own SWAT team in motion.
Eight days after the tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the two Miramar officers, Det. Jeffery Gilbert and Det. Carl Schlosser, were temporarily suspended from duty with the SWAT team. They remain on active duty with the department, according to a Miramar police spokeswoman.
“Effective immediately you have been suspended from the SWAT Team until further notice,” wrote Capt. Kevin Nosowicz, the unit’s commander, in a Feb. 22 memo obtained by the Miami Herald through a public records request. “Please make arrangements with the training department to turn in your SWAT-issued rifle.”
The human urge to aid in a disaster is strong. But it can also run counter to police training. Too much response to a mass casualty situation can create confusion and hinder responders, as recent mass shootings have shown, according to Pat Franklin, a retired Miami Beach police detective.
“This is not their area, this is not their jurisdiction,” said Franklin, who consults with law enforcement agencies on internal affairs investigations. “You don’t want to let those guys loose into something that’s chaotic where they might take inappropriate action. It is prudent to have them stand down unless there is a plan.”
The memo told Gilbert and Schlosser that they acted “without the knowledge or authorization from your chain of command” and created an “officer safety situation due to dispatch not knowing your location or activity.”
Reached on their cellphones, Schlosser and Gilbert said they could not comment.
While the Miramar officers were desperate to head to Stoneman Douglas, the first BSO deputies to arrive didn’t rush in to confront the shooter, leading to questions about how well the agency handled its response. Four armed deputies, including school resource officer Scot Peterson, did not immediately enter the building where Cruz slaughtered students and staff, as Broward Sheriff Scott Israel has said is agency policy. A BSO captain also issued an order to form a perimeter while many deputies thought the shooting was still going on, according to a partial dispatch log obtained by the Herald. (It had, in fact, ended minutes earlier and BSO has defended the captain’s actions.)
A third Miramar SWAT team member, Officer Kevin Gonzalez, was also temporarily suspended for his “direct connection” to online posts criticizing Miramar police after the shooting. A source familiar with the posts said they questioned why Miramar’s SWAT team was not sent to confront shooter Nikolas Cruz, and that they may have been made by Gonzalez’s girlfriend.
“These posts were found to have a negative connotation to our city and the Miramar Police Department,” stated a memo informing Gonzalez of his suspension.
Gonzalez also declined to comment.
After the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport shooting last year, which left five people dead, an after-action report noted confusion caused by a massive influx of law enforcement officers, some of whom left their cars parked on roadways, blocking access.
The report recommended a unified command structure and better communication between agencies.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article203903054.html
bblhead672
03-08-2018, 11:03
FBI briefed lawmakers on failures leading up to Florida shooting (http://thehill.com/homenews/house/377294-fbi-briefed-lawmakers-on-failures-leading-up-to-parkland-shooting)
Acting FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich met with lawmakers on the House Oversight and Government Reform and Judiciary committees Tuesday to discuss the missteps, which were revealed in the days after the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.
Bowdich acknowledged that the FBI failed to follow its own protocol after it received a tip in January about the accused shooter, Nikolas Cruz, 19, and vowed to take corrective actions, according to a press release issued by Reps. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) and Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.), the chairmen of the Oversight and Judiciary committees, respectively.
The FBI failed, resulting in 17 deaths in Florida. Still the left's answer is to further infringe upon the 2A rights of law abiding citizens.
Badger52
03-08-2018, 11:13
The report recommended a unified command structure and better communication between agencies.Because holding out your hands to the sky and chanting "NIMMMMMMMMS" will kill the shooter.
Ret10Echo
03-12-2018, 04:59
Because the Department of Education is known for it's ability to develop defensive security strategies.
We'll see what this turns into but I expect no real solutions.
It (the White House) announced that Education Secretary Betsy DeVos would chair a federal commission on school safety to study the proposal. DeVos said in a statement that the commission would look at a "wide range" of ideas in order to ensure that "no student or family should ever have to live the horror of Parkland or Sandy Hook ever again
Because holding out your hands to the sky and chanting "NIMMMMMMMMS" will kill the shooter.
It's always "fix the institution", never hold an individual(s) accountable though.
:rolleyes:
bblhead672
03-12-2018, 07:01
Because the Department of Education is known for it's ability to develop defensive security strategies.
We'll see what this turns into but I expect no real solutions.
The only thing the Dept of Indoctrination can do is ensure no school districts are following the Obama/Holder plan of not holding students responsible for criminal behavior. Florida proved that this does not work and has tragic consequences.
Old Dog New Trick
03-25-2018, 00:17
March For Life! I’ve watched this whole mess unfold itself, culminating in today’s march across America and the world.
I have a lot words for these people...naive seems to sum it up. We are living in pre and post 911 era of the safest times in American history (minus what has yet to be experienced from the Obama destruction of America) these kids and apparently their parents forget hiding under desks from nuclear obliteratations.
The thought of being a victim of gun violence in or out of school should be farthest thing from everyone’s mind. The only reason it’s there is because of un-manifested fear. Children have a substantially higher chance of being struck by lightning than getting shot ever. But let’s not allow facts to get in the way.
While these naive kids protest against “guns” (and besides the fact that guns on the hips or hands of police protecting them) we are reminded of the message that socialists used to disarm an entire generation before us.
It’s truly sad that only a few children today see and understand the history of why (as insignificant as it might be) the value of a military grade weapon in the hands of a population valuing freedom over tyranny can be the most evil tool developed when not being used to secure freedom.
The gun didn’t decide to be good or bad. It can be used for either reason but the use of it for good outweighs any use of it for ill purposes.
An education is hard to come by in today’s schools. Revisionist history had succeeded in failing our kids of the relevant facts needed to make good choices.
:(
Ret10Echo
03-25-2018, 04:58
March For Life! I’ve watched this whole mess unfold itself, culminating in today’s march across America and the world.
I have a lot words for these people...
While these naive kids protest against “guns” (and besides the fact that guns on the hips or hands of police protecting them) we are reminded of the message that socialists used to disarm an entire generation before us.
Generation Z.... I prefer the term "The Incompetent Generation" or maybe it's "Generation Hate"?
The gun hasn't changed. What has?
Look at a list of school shootings. These are not deranged 40-year-olds storming a building. These are teenagers killing other teenagers.
Children who have come to the conclusion that the only way to express themselves is through the barrel of a weapon.
So to all the marchers... In the midst of being a sock puppet for Bloomberg and MSM maybe there is a need for a little self-reflection? What is it that you are doing to each other that creates this level of hate? What is it that YOU the teenager are doing to your fellow man to drive them to the brink?
Nope, the gun hasn't changed. It's inanimate. What has changed is the incompetent and emotionally empty teen generation.
YOMV
The heart and sense of loss the kids had has been hijacked by Soros, the Obamaites and Pelosiites. The left does this all the time. It's all they know.
This hijacking won't go unnoticed by the youth, either. They are smarter and more suspect now days than ever before of the slick sales and plaid pants of those who are trying to sell them a bill of goods. I hope it all backfires and blows up in Soros' face, and I think it will.
The Vomitites (Progressives) want nothing but a Constitutional Convention to drive their twisted agenda down the throats of the world. They have no argument. All they have is an agenda...destroy everything traditionally American.
Makes me sick to see these kids being fed the script they are being fed. It's like watching a child being led away by a pedifile. But, personally, I think the youth of America are ultimately smarter than to buy into it, and that eventually they'll reject the whole thing. Lobbyists all had better be on notice. The next generation has your number. JMHO.
billstrobel
03-25-2018, 05:15
Liberals will never take responsibility for their actions that result in tragedy
Amazing New Breakthrough to Reduce Mass Shootings!
Ann Coulter | Wednesday Feb 21, 2018 7:05 PM
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As fun as it is to ridicule the FBI for devoting massive resources to chasing down Hillary Clinton’s oppo research while blowing off repeated, specific warnings about school shooter Nikolas Cruz, we’ve put a lot on the agency’s plate.
We’re hauling in nearly 2 million manifestly unvetted Third World immigrants every year, leading to a slew of FBI “Watch Lists” with a million names apiece. In 2015, Director James Comey said that there were ISIS investigations in all 50 states — even Idaho and Alaska! And that’s just one terrorist organization.
Maybe the FBI brass would still be a bunch of incompetent, PC nincompoops if we weren’t dumping millions of psychotic and terrorist foreigners on the country. But even the most efficient organization would have trouble keeping track of the Nikolas Cruzes when our immigration policies require approximately one-third of the country to be constantly watching another third of the country.
Thanks to our Second Amendment, the United States has fewer mass shootings per capita than many other developed countries, including Norway, France, Switzerland, Finland, Belgium and the Czech Republic. (And 98 percent of our mass shootings occur in “gun-free zones.”)
But imagine if we could cut our mass shootings in half?
There have been about 34 mass shootings since 2000. Forty-seven percent — 16 — were committed by first- and second-generation immigrants, i.e. people who never would have been here but for Teddy Kennedy’s 1965 immigration act.
And the immigrant mass shootings have been some of the most spectacular ones, such as Fort Hood and San Bernardino. Two of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history, at Virginia Tech in 2007 and at the Pulse Nightclub in 2016, were committed by first- and second-generation immigrants, i.e., people who were in this country because Teddy was pouting in his room and refused to come out until he got his own legacy.
(Excluded from both lists: the Las Vegas shooting, because law enforcement has released nothing but lies about it, so that shooting remains unclassifiable; family dispute shootings; targeted assassinations of police officers; and shootings on Indian reservations.)
Here’s the list of immigrant mass shootings, defined as a shooting at the same general time and location, not during the commission of another crime, that leaves at least four people dead — i.e. no gangland shootings, no “man kills family, then self” and no drug deals gone bad.
On account of the Rule of Journalism that permits the word “immigrant” to be used only in sentences with the word “valedictorian,” you may not have heard of some of these mass shootings at all.
1) Omar Mateen, son of Afghan immigrants, killed 49 people at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando on June 12, 2016.
2) First- and second-generation Pakistani immigrants Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik opened fire at a community center Christmas party in San Bernardino, California, on Dec. 2, 2015, killing 14 people.
3) English immigrant Christopher Harper-Mercer killed 9 people at Umpqua Community College in southwest Oregon on Oct. 1, 2015.
4) Kuwaiti immigrant Mohammad Youssef Abdulazeez shot and killed five people in attacks on two military installations in Chattanooga, Tennessee, on July 16, 2015.
5) Second-generation Malaysian immigrant Elliot Rodger killed six people on May 23, 2014, around the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara.
6) Second-generation immigrant John Zawahri opened fire at his Southern California home and later at the campus of Santa Monica College on June 7, 2013, killing five in all. (The New York Times never mentioned that he was the child of Lebanese immigrants. The Times didn’t even mention that his Arab father used to beat up his mother, despite that paper’s usual heightened interest in stories about men being mean to women.)
7) Cuban immigrant Pedro Alberto Vargas fatally shot six people in his apartment complex in Hialeah, Florida, on July 26, 2013.
8) Probable Barbadian immigrant Aaron Alexis shot and killed 12 people inside the Washington Navy Yard on Sept. 16, 2013. (See vdare.com/posts/aaron-alexis-may-have-been-a-barbadian-american-like-eric-holder.)
9) South Korean immigrant One L. Goh opened fire at Oikos University in Oakland, California, killing seven people on April 2, 2012.
10) Mexican immigrant Eduardo Sencion shot up an IHOP in Carson City, Nevada, on Sept. 6, 2011, killing four people — three National Guardsmen and a 67-year-old woman.
11) Second-generation immigrant Nidal Malik Hasan, son of Palestinian immigrants, killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2009.
12) Vietnamese immigrant Jiverly Wong shot up the Binghamton, New York, American Civic Association on April 3, 2009, killing 13.
13) Bosnian immigrant Sulejman Talovic fatally shot five people at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City on Feb. 12, 2007.
14) Seung-Hui Cho, a South Korean immigrant, slaughtered 32 people at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007.
15) Hmong immigrant Chai Soua Vang killed six hunters in northern Wisconsin on Nov. 21, 2004.
16) Mexican immigrant Salvador Tapia shot up the Windy City Core Supply warehouse in Chicago in 2003, killing six of his former co-workers.
If you missed your favorite immigrant mass shooting, please note that I excluded Jamaican immigrant Colin Ferguson (Long Island Railroad massacre in 1993); Nigerian immigrant Peter Odighizuwa (Appalachian School of Law shooting in 2002); Haitian illegal immigrant Kesler Dufrene (North Miami shooting in 2012); and Nigerian immigrant Henry Williams Obotetukudo (Bronx-Lebanon Hospital shooting in 2017). We are only counting mass shootings since 2000 that left at least four people dead.
First- and second-generation immigrants have committed more than 40 percent of all mass shootings since 2000. I know we’ve been admitting Third World immigrants at a breakneck pace, but I don’t think immigrants make up nearly half the population yet.
Once we exclude the immigrant mass shooters, a clearer pattern emerges. The typical American perpetrator is a young man with paranoid schizophrenia — or, as we’re now euphemistically calling it, “autism” — probably exacerbated by pot, a deadly combo platter.
An immigration moratorium and widespread deportations would not only cut mass shootings in half, but it would also free up the FBI’s time to focus on these delusional young men with the terrifying stare, who hear voices no one else hears.
Young men like Nikolas Cruz.
billstrobel
03-25-2018, 05:16
The School-To-Mass-Murder Pipeline
Ann Coulter | Thursday Mar 1, 2018 12:01 PM
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Nikolas Cruz’s psychosis ended in a bloody massacre not only because of the stunning incompetence of the Broward County Sheriff’s Department. It was also the result of liberal insanity working exactly as it was intended to.
School and law enforcement officials knew Cruz was a ticking time bomb. They did nothing because of a deliberate, willful, bragged-about policy to end the “school-to-prison pipeline.” This is the feature part of the story, not the bug part.
If Cruz had taken out full-page ads in the local newspapers, he could not have demonstrated more clearly that he was a dangerous psychotic. He assaulted students, cursed out teachers, kicked in classroom doors, started fist fights, threw chairs, threatened to kill other students, mutilated small animals, pulled a rifle on his mother, drank gasoline and cut himself, among other “red flags.”
Over and over again, students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School reported Cruz’s terrifying behavior to school administrators, including Kelvin Greenleaf, “security specialist,” and Peter Mahmood, head of JROTC.
At least three students showed school administrators Cruz’s near-constant messages threatening to kill them — e.g., “I am going to enjoy seeing you down on the grass,” “Im going to watch ypu bleed,” “iam going to shoot you dead” — including one that came with a photo of Cruz’s guns. They warned school authorities that he was bringing weapons to school. They filed written reports.
Threatening to kill someone is a felony. In addition to locking Cruz away for a while, having a felony record would have prevented him from purchasing a gun.
All the school had to do was risk Cruz not going to college, and depriving Yale University of a Latino class member, by reporting a few of his felonies — and there would have been no mass shooting.
But Cruz was never arrested. He wasn’t referred to law enforcement. He wasn’t even expelled.
Instead, Cruz was just moved around from school to school — six transfers in three years. But he was always sent back to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in order to mainstream him, so that he could get a good job someday!
The moronic idea behind the “school-to-prison pipeline” is that the only reason so many “black and brown bodies” are in prison is because they were disciplined in high school, diminishing their opportunities. End the discipline and … problem solved!
It’s like “The Wizard of Oz” in reverse. The Wizard told the Scarecrow: You don’t need an education, you just need a diploma! The school-to-prison pipeline idiocy tells students: You don’t need to behave in high school, you just need to leave with no criminal record!
Of course, killjoys will say that removing the consequences of bad behavior only encourages more bad behavior. But that’s not the view of Learned Professionals, who took summer courses at Michigan State Ed School.
In a stroke of genius, they realized that the only problem criminals have is that people keep lists of their criminal activities. It’s the list that prevents them from getting into M.I.T. and designing space stations on Mars. Where they will cure cancer.
This primitive, stone-age thinking was made official Broward County policy in a Nov. 5, 2013, agreement titled “Collaborative Agreement on School Discipline.”
The first “whereas” clause of the agreement states that “the use of arrests and referrals to the criminal justice system may decrease a student’s chance of graduation, entering higher education, joining the military and getting a job.”
Get it? It’s the arrest — not the behavior that led to the arrest — that reduces a student’s chance at a successful life. (For example, just look at how much the district’s refusal to arrest Nikolas Cruz helped him!
The agreement’s third “whereas” clause specifically cites “students of color” as victims of the old, racist policy of treating criminal behavior criminally.
Say, in the middle of a drive to cut back on the arrest or expulsion of “students of color,” how do you suppose the school dealt with a kid named “Nikolas Cruz”? Might there be some connection between his Hispanic last name and the school’s abject refusal to do anything about Cruz’s repeated criminal behavior?
Just a few months ago, the superintendent of Broward County Public Schools, Robert W. Runcie, was actually bragging about how student arrests had plummeted under his bold leadership.
When he took over in 2011, the district had “the highest number of school-related arrests in the state.” But today, he boasted, Broward has “one of the lowest rates of arrest in the state.” By the simple expedient of ignoring criminal behavior, student arrests had declined by a whopping 78 percent.
FOOTBALL COACH: “When I took over this team a year ago, we were last in the league in pass defense. Today, we no longer keep that statistic!”
When it comes to spectacular crimes, it’s usually hard to say how it could have been prevented. But in this case, we have a paper trail. In the pursuit of a demented ideology, specific people agreed not to report, arrest or prosecute dangerous students like Nikolas Cruz.
These were the parties to the Nov. 5, 2013, agreement that ensured Cruz would be out on the street with full access to firearms:
Robert W. Runcie, Superintendent of Schools
Peter M. Weinstein, Chief Judge of the 17th Judicial Circuit
Michael J. Satz, State Attorney
Howard Finkelstein, Public Defender
Scott Israel, Broward County Sheriff
Franklin Adderley, Chief of the Fort Lauderdale Police Department
Wansley Walters, Secretary of the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice
Marsha Ellison, President of the Fort Lauderdale Branch of the NAACP and Chair of the Juvenile Justice Advisory Board
Nikolas Cruz may be crazy, but the parties to that agreement are crazy, too. They decided to make high school students their guinea pigs for an experiment based on a noxious ideology. The blood of 17 people is on their hands.
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TOMAHAWK9521
03-25-2018, 09:18
The media is plastering the Hogg kid's picture all over the place from the "We Want Communism" rally. I didn't attach the picture here mainly because I can't stand that smug little scripted sock puppet. I know he's trying to come off as fierce and determined but all I can think of is he is either trying to patent his own mixture of the Nazi and black power salutes or else he was showing his opening dance move in hopes of creating a resurgence of Disco.
The media is plastering the Hogg kid's picture all over the place from the "We Want Communism" rally. I didn't attach the picture here mainly because I can't stand that smug little scripted sock puppet. I know he's trying to come off as fierce and determined but all I can think of is he is either trying to patent his own mixture of the Nazi and black power salutes or else he was showing his opening dance move in hopes of creating a resurgence of Disco.
This little asswipe has had his 15 minutes of fame. Meanwhile the dems are licking their chops just waiting for the day these dipshits can vote. I am glad that I am on the backside of life.
The one self evident point with all the recent "Marches for Whateverthefuck" (Women's March, March for our Lives etc.) at least here in Philly, is the use of the exact same "template for change" that we're seeing time and time again.
Speaker 1 and 2 are usually focused somewhat on the initial topic at hand while pointing out the affixed "register to vote" tables, and of course, screw the government and all its oppressive ways...... after that - its fair game for what ever social construct and woe you wish to bleat or shriek about from the stage.
Yesterdays 10,000 attendees, while comprised almost exclusively of white, affluent, Birkenstock sandal wearing poster carriers (with children in tow), cheered and applauded while speaker after speaker berated them for their white privilege, LGBT non-conformity, white male CIS-ness, and their inability to change the system to whatever the speaker thought should be the rule of the land - (spoiler alert - again, its mostly because of white guys failings.)
Now, don't get me wrong, these "shows" are more entertaining than anything cable TV can bring to you especially with the occasional "disarm, and or, fuck the police" rants shouted from a stage, located inside a protective ring of blocking vehicles, and armed jack booted thugs, who were usually occupied with shooing 90lb males and 200lb females (I think) from taking a tongue out, 1 finger salute selfie in front of the omnipresent oppressive force occupation vehicles. (you know, just like those brave freedom fighters during the real Nazi occupations)
Even worse was our own local politicians who all demanded special parking for a quick escape, then jumped on stage to thank the masses in attendance while yet again, promising to "end the reign of the NRA, and all those vile assault rifles of any type". Oddly, all failed to mention the multiple founded shootings, and God knows how many attempted shootings just the previous night within the city....
But camaraderie did abound amongst the marches staff of millennial's. As I watched a scrawny young man attempting to carry a cinder block (as in 1/solo cinder block) some 200ft to anchor a "Register to Vote Here flag/pole" he literally put it down (and shook his arms as if prepping for an Olympic relay) several times. Each time, in my head, the tune "I think I can, I think I can" ran over and over, until mercifully, he was assisted by something female with much larger triceps and green hair.
There really seems to be a great separation of reality here as to exactly what democracy actually means at most of the recent protest marches.
Soon the left will convince men to actually castrate themselves...or even cut off their penis' to stop rape from happening...
Old Dog New Trick
03-25-2018, 21:10
Soon the left will convince men to actually castrate themselves...or even cut off their penis' to stop rape from happening...
Yeah um right. Only those that believe the sh!t their psychologist told them.
Old Dog New Trick
03-25-2018, 21:12
BillStrobel, thanks for posting all that. Great perspective!
Old Dog New Trick
03-25-2018, 21:22
David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez have shown their colors and they both fail on principle. If only they took civics 98 in Junior High and actually read the Constitution of the United States of America before ripping it up and trampling on it.
It’s really sad for them to have spent so much capital to be outclassed a day later by the porn star slut who says she spanked the Donald. Even the media can’t support two kids who probably weren’t in the same building as the shooter but claim to be victims.
Bookends of the Gun Control Movement: The 1934 National Firearms Act was precipitated by the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre. This weekend's protests were precipitated by the 2018 St. Valentine's Day Massacre which will proceed to a move for firearms prohibition now that Trump has ceded power to Pelosi and Schumer.
Badger52
03-26-2018, 05:11
This little asswipe has had his 15 minutes of fame. Meanwhile the dems are licking their chops just waiting for the day these dipshits can vote. I am glad that I am on the backside of life.He's not done yet unless someone just calls him in truant (his teachers won't) and tells him to get back in school. The Bloomberg-founded 501c(4) (donors not reported) bankrolling organizations are going to keep this going. They have a network that any liberty-minded folks should envy. They are good at organizing; we are not, instead conversing rationally over coffee until time to go kinetic. It's how they can get professionally-done posters & t-shirts on 2 ends of the country simultaneously & distributed to the kids with the script for the chanting-words to support the sign. Those kids don't have millions in a budget, but "Everytown..." does.
You're right about one thing. These kids will vote, some this November, for sure in 2020. And, for the Dems, this clown-show is simply growing your ammo to fire at the ballot box.
Errata: In the balance, there is also (limited) coverage of Kyle Kashuv here (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/25/parkland-school-shooting-survivor-blame-cowards-broward-county/) and here (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/25/pro-second-amendment-student-kashuv-calls-for-debate-with-march-for-our-lives-organizer-kasky.html). I admire his grit, even if I doubt he understands that the other side cannot be dealt with in terms of fact.
These little pukes should not be poking the Bear, that is what got the Donald elected. As usual what passes for the republican party does not know how to be in charge. Were I inclined to be a politician I would be on the Trump bandwagon and very vocal about it and I would more than likely be elected/reelected in the midterms. The establishment republicans need to be replaced and not by democrats.
Stories are being circulated that Hogg was not even in school the day of the shooting, if that is the case then I too am a survivor of this shooting this twit is an opportunist at most.
During the Cultural Revolution - one of the Chicom goals was to wipe out the “four olds...”
...old things, old ideas, old customs and old habits.
To these kids...the Second Amendment is just an old idea, regarding old things, respected by old guys, merely out of old customs and old habits.
Badger52
03-27-2018, 13:50
During the Cultural Revolution - one of the Chicom goals was to wipe out the “four olds...”
...old things, old ideas, old customs and old habits.
To these kids...the Second Amendment is just an old idea, regarding old things, respected by old guys, merely out of old customs and old habits.Speaking of that...Another (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/27/former-supreme-court-justice-john-paul-stevens-repeal-second-amendment/) (former) member of the aristocracy the anti-federalists mentioned should be impeachable for a clear record of countering the legislature vs. life tenure for "good behavior."
Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens says the right to bear arms has run its course, and now’s the time to “repeal the Second Amendment.”
They have their way parents will have to expand dinner-time queries (if they even do it anymore) of "how was school today?" It'll have to include finding out if they were asked to surveil their parents.
Get 'em raised right folks, or the enemy will.
Retired Justice Stevens ignores thousands of years of good versus evil as if evil would simply disappear if the firearm were to go away.
This line of thinking is precisely what the despot hopes for...dreams for...works for...
According to the chart below, only three justices since 1935 have been more liberal than Stevens: Brennan, Marshall, and Douglas.
Retired Justice Stevens ignores thousands of years of good versus evil as if evil would simply disappear if the firearm were to go away.
This line of thinking is precisely what the despot hopes for...dreams for...works for...
For the time being it is an us against them regarding doing away with the 2d amendment and there is not enough of them.................. yet.
He's not done yet unless someone just calls him in truant (his teachers won't) and tells him to get back in school. The Bloomberg-founded 501c(4) (donors not reported) bankrolling organizations are going to keep this going. They have a network that any liberty-minded folks should envy. They are good at organizing; we are not, instead conversing rationally over coffee until time to go kinetic. It's how they can get professionally-done posters & t-shirts on 2 ends of the country simultaneously & distributed to the kids with the script for the chanting-words to support the sign. Those kids don't have millions in a budget, but "Everytown..." does.
You're right about one thing. These kids will vote, some this November, for sure in 2020. And, for the Dems, this clown-show is simply growing your ammo to fire at the ballot box.
Errata: In the balance, there is also (limited) coverage of Kyle Kashuv here (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/25/parkland-school-shooting-survivor-blame-cowards-broward-county/) and here (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/25/pro-second-amendment-student-kashuv-calls-for-debate-with-march-for-our-lives-organizer-kasky.html). I admire his grit, even if I doubt he understands that the other side cannot be dealt with in terms of fact.
To your point https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/opinions/children-democrats-future-opinion-ferguson/index.html. At least this asshole is upfront and honest about it.
Badger52
03-28-2018, 04:53
To your point https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/opinions/children-democrats-future-opinion-ferguson/index.html. At least this asshole is upfront and honest about it.Precisely. There is a reason a couple of major Bloomberg front groups, along with a midwest attorney specializing in non-profit formation, stick millions into coordinating identical signage & charter bus logistics to get these children their camera time. If young people were pointing out, instead, that stripping a citizenry of its right to defend itself paves the way for despotism there would be a few media mouse squeaks, nothing more. And the current Republican leadership would probably screw that opportunity up even if handed it on a silver platter.
Both views, however, solve nothing in terms of the issue at hand. The political parties simply treat it as a spectator sport, where there is a winner & a loser. Both enjoy statistics, the fantasy football in vying for the ruling of America but neither will mention the homicide rate, including children, in Chicongo, or that these types of things almost never happen where there is a likelihood that the shooter will get their asses blown away by a citizen with a gun, or that teachers would welcome being unshackled when it comes to keeping order in their classrooms, or that parents need to realize that raising up good kids is frickin' hard work.
The left is more than happy to manage this generation on a template of the Hitler Youth if that's what it takes to advance their agenda.
The only thing missing form this "student led" movement is the black shorts and tan shirts.
rsdengler
03-28-2018, 06:30
The left is more than happy to manage this generation on a template of the Hitler Youth if that's what it takes to advance their agenda.
The only thing missing form this "student led" movement is the black shorts and tan shirts.
...And the Cyanide pill sewn in the hidden pocket of the shirt's hem.....:D
Old Dog New Trick
03-28-2018, 07:19
The handlers of these children whether they be parents or Democratic operatives of the DNC or CNN are doing a fantastic job. From the militaristic Che Guvera green uniform shirt with a Cuban flag to the Black Panther (aka Nazi) fist bump with a Dean Howard scream. These kids are showing their ignorance and bias literally on their sleeve.
If every single newly minted 18y/o votes the midterms and general elections coming up they would not change the outcome of any election. Just a hunch but I don’t see an 18y/o voting himself or herself the loss of a newly granted Constitutional right to self-protection at the prospect of some imaginary dream that voting to not have the right and the means to protection is going to save one school aged student.
That makes about as much sense as telling high school students not to get drunk, smoke pot and have unprotected sex on Spring Break.
TOMAHAWK9521
03-28-2018, 13:49
Apparently, there weren't very many actual "children" present at the protest who needed to be handled.
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2018/03/28/study-10-d-c-march-lives-protesters-teenagers/
This sounds like the equivalent to European governments and news organizations identifying all those male, fighting-age and older, muslim invaders as "unaccompanied minors or adolescent refugees".
Stories are being circulated that Hogg was not even in school the day of the shooting, if that is the case then I too am a survivor of this shooting this twit is an opportunist at most.
If Hogg is indeed a liar...and he reportedly wants to be a journalist...I see a CNN anchor position in his future.
Watch out Anderson Cooper.
Stories are being circulated that Hogg was not even in school the day of the shooting, if that is the case then I too am a survivor of this shooting this twit is an opportunist at most.
This morning I heard the audio of two interviews with him after the incident. In the first, he said that he heard the news on TV at his house, grabbed his video camera (not his phone video), jumped on his bike, and rode the 3 miles to the school. In the second, he said that he was in his AP Environmental Studies (or something similar) class when the alarm went off.
Camera Hogg!
Streck-Fu
03-29-2018, 06:00
This morning I heard the audio of two interviews with him after the incident. In the first, he said that he heard the news on TV at his house, grabbed his video camera (not his phone video), jumped on his bike, and rode the 3 miles to the school. In the second, he said that he was in his AP Environmental Studies (or something similar) class when the alarm went off.
Camera Hogg!
According to this article, he was not on campus at the time of the shooting. And he did grab his camera. He thinks of himself as a student journalist (not sure if that is meant to be a student of journalism or a student that is a journalist.... I'll stick with attention whore.) and admits to not knowing the students killed and was not on campus at the time of the shooting.
LINK (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/march-for-our-lives-39-days-how-parkland-students-turned-grief-into-action/)
DAVID HOGG: I didn't know most of these people at a very personal level, but I wanted to make their voices heard and that's what I'm really trying to do.
........
DAVID HOGG: On the day of the shooting, I got my camera and got on my bike and road as fast as I could three miles from my house to the school to get as much video and to get as many interviews as I could because I knew that this could not be another mass shooting.
...........
7 NIGHTS AFTER THE SHOOTING
David Hogg: We're here at the BB&T Center and now I'm trying to get inside without a ticket.
Person on walkie talkie: I need his name and the contact.
Woman at security: My contact from CNN is just checking to see. We don't have a name.
Woman at security: David Hall?
David Hogg: David Hogg.
Woman at security: (recognizing Hogg): Ah! David Hogg is here … you're more than welcome to come in.
Team Sergeant
03-29-2018, 16:42
According to this article, he was not on campus at the time of the shooting. And he did grab his camera. He thinks of himself as a student journalist (not sure if that is meant to be a student of journalism or a student that is a journalist.... I'll stick with attention whore.) and admits to not knowing the students killed and was not on campus at the time of the shooting.
LINK (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/march-for-our-lives-39-days-how-parkland-students-turned-grief-into-action/)
Just what the USA needs, another lying liberal/socialist fakenews hack.
Just what the USA needs, another lying liberal/socialist fakenews hack.
Next stop U.S. Senate then when he hits 35..................
Badger52
03-29-2018, 18:33
Next stop U.S. Senate then when he hits 35..................If his mouth lets him get to 35...
If his mouth lets him get to 35...
The audacity of hope!
Old Dog New Trick
03-29-2018, 19:32
The audacity of hope!
Damn, I hope that brother can make change for a dime bag!
Next stop U.S. Senate then when he hits 35..................
Not likely. Even California schools don't want Piggy. :D
https://nypost.com/2018/03/28/david-hogg-having-trouble-getting-into-college-after-high-school/
TOMAHAWK9521
03-29-2018, 21:36
Honestly, IMHO, everything about that sock puppet's character and demeanor has me seeing more red flags than downtown Beijing. I'm the farthest thing from a psychologist but what I see in his eyes, facial features, body language, and line of reasoning, not to mention his reliance on using profanity for his "intellectual" arguments, I would not be surprised to see him as the next shooter/bomber/truck driver if he doesn't get everything he believes he's entitled to, which is celebrity accolades and veneration. Something about that kid just ain't plumb.
Hopefully the failings of every agency and every authority figure involved in the Florida shootings will be a cautionary tale for the rest of the nation's schools.
Yesterday my son was sitting in his 6th period high school class when the kid next to him made comments about wanting to shoot up the school. Reaction was swift. The kid is gone (beyond that I don't know what'll happen to him). I got a msg from security indicating "an event" had occurred in my son's class, that everyone was accounted for and safe, and that I could call the security guy directly with my concerns. Geez. Not the kind of vague, yet ominous, voice mail one likes to hear.
Today each member of the class was interviewed privately by a police officer.
My son says that the kid was joking. But thankfully that kind of joke isn't laughed at. I'm glad they're taking it seriously.
S.
Yesterday my son was sitting in his 6th period high school class when the kid next to him made comments about wanting to shoot up the school. Reaction was swift. The kid is gone (beyond that I don't know what'll happen to him).
S.
Soylent Green.
Badger52
03-30-2018, 04:29
Today each member of the class was interviewed privately by a police officer.
With parent present I hope.
The School-To-Mass-Murder Pipeline
Ann Coulter | Thursday Mar 1, 2018 12:01 PM
All the school had to do was risk Cruz not going to college, and depriving Yale University of a Latino class member, by reporting a few of his felonies —
End the discipline and … problem solved!
This primitive, stone-age thinking was made official Broward County policy in a Nov. 5, 2013, agreement titled “Collaborative Agreement on School Discipline.”
The delicate nuance of this situation requires much deeper thought than the neophyte political pundit is capable of explaining.
The end result is NOT to keep them out of prison - the underlying goal is to INCREASE “a student’s chance of graduation, entering higher education, joining the military and getting a job.”
Because of the rights given to the inhabitants of our prison system, Cruz (an oppressed minority) has a better chance of getting a UCLA education than daVid h0Gg (an entitled white kids) does...
...the system is working
Cruz (an oppressed minority)
Funny thing, though, "Cruz" was adopted by the Cruz family. I haven't seen any mention of what ethnicity he actually is. Looks Russian to me. ;)
Failed policies of catch and release in Broward County.
Violent Crime By Juveniles Up Sharply Since Broward County Adopted PROMISE Program
JOHN SEXTONPosted at 3:21 pm on April 17, 2018
Hotair.com
Broward County’s PROMISE program (which stands for Preventing Recidivism through Opportunities, Mentoring, Interventions, Supports & Education) coincides with higher levels of violent crime among juveniles, even as levels of such crime have been falling statewide.
Broward County adopted the PROMISE program in 2013 at the urging of the Obama Education Department. As Ed pointed out last month, based on a story by Paul Sperry of RealClearInvestigations, the move away from arrests even for repeat offenders appears to help explain why school shooter Nikolas Cruz was able to engage in violence and even bring bullets to school without any arrests or legal consequences. Sunday, Sperry published a follow up looking more broadly at the results of the PROMISE program. He found those results don’t match up with the claims of its supporters:
Broward County now has the highest percentage of “the most serious, violent [and] chronic”juvenile offenders in Florida, according to the county’s chief juvenile probation officer…
Within two years of adopting the discipline reforms, Broward’s juvenile recidivism rate surged higher than the Florida state average.
The negative trends continued through last year, the most recent juvenile crime data show.
Prosecutors and probation officers complain that while overall juvenile arrests are down, serious violent crimes involving school-aged Broward youths – including armed robbery, kidnapping and even murder – have spiked, even as such violent crimes across the state have dropped.
Juvenile arrests for murder and manslaughter increased 150 percent between 2013 and 2016. They increased by another 50 percent in 2017. County juveniles were responsible for a total of 16 murders or manslaughters in the past two years alone, according to the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice…
After Broward schools began emphasizing rehabilitation over incarceration, fights broke out virtually every day in classrooms, hallways, cafeterias and campuses across the district. Last year, more than 3,000 fights erupted in the district’s 300-plus schools, including the altercations involving Cruz. No brawlers were arrested, even after their third fight, and even if they sent other children to the hospital.
Federal data show almost half of Broward middle school students have been involved in fights, with many suffering injuries requiring medical treatment.
Because the students involved in the fights are considered “mutual combatants,” administrators tell parents they cannot be referred to police under the new discipline code.
The report notes that one year after Broward adopted the PROMISE program it dropped questions from an annual survey asking students if they felt safe in the classroom. The following year, 2015, they discontinued the survey entirely after 21 years.
But a CDC survey of Broward middle schools found 33% of students said they had been bullied at school and 47.4% said they had gotten into fights, some of which resulted in trips to a doctor. Meanwhile, Sheriff Scott Israel was boasting that juvenile arrests were down in his county, citing this as proof the school-to-prison pipeline was coming to an end. But as Max Eden of the Manhattan Institute points out, “Sheriff Israel can boast that arrests are down in Broward County [but] that tends to happen when you stop arresting.” The real question is not whether the program has reduced arrests but whether it has made schools safer or less safe.
So far the people who implemented the PROMISE program are not reconsidering it. Broward County Superintendent Robert Runcie said recently that discussing the program was just a conservative diversion from “common sense” gun reform.
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/04/17/report-violent-crime-sharply-since-broward-county-adopted-promise-program/
bblhead672
04-18-2018, 09:01
F
So far the people who implemented the PROMISE program are not reconsidering it. Broward County Superintendent Robert Runcie said recently that discussing the program was just a conservative diversion from “common sense” gun reform.
Doubling down (or is it tripling) on stupid policies that are getting children killed, injured and unable to be educated due to violent and criminal behavior being swept under the carpet of the progressive socialist agenda.
Broward County Superintendent Robert Runcie said recently that discussing the program was just a conservative diversion from “common sense” gun reform.
Not arresting repeat violent juveniles (the arrest and conviction) essentially rendering them ineligible for lawful firearms purchase or ownership - is the real diversion.
Team Sergeant
04-18-2018, 13:20
Someday, when the real historians (and not the liberal historian frauds) write the true history of the United States it will include just how big a failure spineless barry soetoro really was, history will also show that barry was a failure not because of his skin color, but because he was a left-wing liberal/socialist moron.
Oh and btw, google is trying to bury any search attempt for barry soetoro. Now you really have to go looking to bring the name up in a google search.
Same with this website, google is doing their best to bury it. ;)
Barry Soetero was among other things an elitist, Statist, demagogue who put political correctness above the safety of the nation and it citizens.
Badger52
04-18-2018, 17:02
Barry Soetero was among other things an elitist, Statist, demagogue who put political correctness above the safety of the nation and it citizens.It's in the modern vernacular but I'm going to try a concerted effort, personally, to avoid using this term. Doing the expedient thing, simply for political reasons, doesn't make it correct. There are too damned many people who will do the easy wrong rather than the hard right and call the result politically correct. We have bemoaned many times this exhibited in our military leaders and distilled it down to lack (or loss) of character. The rest of these mf'ers can have the same treatment.
Example:
If you lied under oath, I'm not going to say you exhibited "lack of candor."
I will call you a liar.
Your "fee-wings" aren't in play. GFY
Too subtle?
There are too damned many people who will do the easy wrong rather than the hard right and call the result politically correct.
In example above - it could simply be referred to as lazy as well.
Preach it bro - more substance less BS.
ETA...I kinda like it...Barry Soetero was among other things an elitist, Statist, demagogue who put BS above the safety of the nation and it citizens.
sfshooter
04-18-2018, 18:19
Someday, when the real historians (and not the liberal historian frauds) write the true history of the United States it will include just how big a failure spineless barry soetoro really was, history will also show that barry was a failure not because of his skin color, but because he was a left-wing liberal/socialist moron.
Oh and btw, google is trying to bury any search attempt for barry soetoro. Now you really have to go looking to bring the name up in a google search.
Same with this website, google is doing their best to bury it. ;)
I have been using Bing as a search engine for quite awhile. You get "barry so" typed out and it comes up with the full name and a whole list of website info on said retard.
Typed in "professional soldier" and this website address was the first on the list.
The Reaper
04-18-2018, 19:05
For my search engine, I use Duck Duck Go, which has the added advantage of not collecting data on users.
TR
Ret10Echo
04-26-2018, 06:49
WASHINGTON — The Prince William County Board of Supervisors passed a budget for the 2019 fiscal year Tuesday, approving a pilot program for the school system that will allow retired police officers to serve as armed school security guards.
Full story here (https://wtop.com/prince-william-county/2018/04/lawmakers-approve-putting-retired-cops-in-prince-william-co-schools/)
Old Dog New Trick
05-18-2018, 17:41
[I don’t feel like starting a new thread]
Let’s suppose today’s young shooter who took his dads .38 revolver (those only come in a five or generally six shooter fixed cylinder variety) and a shotgun of unknown gauge or capacity (three or five or up to eight) and he did not (if I heard that right from today’s news) reload anything before being engaged by the SRO and giving up...after shooting the RSO.
He killed 10 people and wounded 10 other people with fewer than a maximum of 14 bullets/shells and maybe as few nine or eleven.
As before with the untold media driven agenda at Aurora Cineplex Movie theatre, the shooter killed more of victims with a 12-gauge shotgun and .40cal pistol than he did with an AR-15.
When the leftists ban and remove the AR-15 rifle and many variations of 5.56/223 cousins people will be forced to use more deadly and death causing weapons.
I wonder out loud if the kid today who made several IEDs one being a pressure cooker type IED would have accomplished more carnage had he used those instead of a measly .38cal revolver?
Your thoughts?
Ret10Echo
05-18-2018, 19:16
Children killing children... How is this a firearms problem?
We're scared to face the reality that our society is morally failed.
ODNT - let's be thankful that kids like this are ignorant of how to do real damage.
I won't provide a primer on how to do so in an open forum.
bblhead672
05-18-2018, 19:56
Another sad day in Texas. A friend had relative who was going into Santa Fe High School this morning to substitute teach for the day, she was one of the first killed.
Apparently this kid said he believes in evil. Must be first hand experience.
Old Dog New Trick
05-18-2018, 20:16
Another sad day in Texas. A friend had relative who was going into Santa Fe High School this morning to substitute teach for the day, she was one of the first killed.
Apparently this kid said he believes in evil. Must be first hand experience.
So sad to hear of this from you. It’s alwas more tragic when you are connected to the event. Pass on my condolences to your friend and their families.
rsdengler
05-19-2018, 05:39
So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..
Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone when a drunk driver is behind the wheel; but they won't come out and say that "it is a issue with our youth as a whole" today. That is what we should be looking at, the root problem. We should take responsibility for our kids actions, supervise their daily activities, as well as communicate with them like my parents did way back when. Today we have lost the ability to dig deep into the underlying causes that bring about this type of behavior. It's a culture of wayward children and the parents/mentors/teachers that continuously ignore the signs.
TOMAHAWK9521
05-19-2018, 07:28
So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..
Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone.
You are more right about that than you know. A few months back, over at Ohio State Univ., some guy, who was apparently trying to get to the Aloha Snackbar before it closed, decided to steer his car into student pedestrians and then jumped out with a knife to spread further mayhem on his way to the door. What has the first thing the left screamed for? Gun control.
So sad, condolences to those families who lost loved ones..
Yes, it is become a "failed society", people kill people and it is a cultural problem which we all need to realize. They never say it was a "car" that killed someone when a drunk driver is behind the wheel; but they won't come out and say that "it is a issue with our youth as a whole" today. That is what we should be looking at, the root problem. We should take responsibility for our kids actions, supervise their daily activities, as well as communicate with them like my parents did way back when. Today we have lost the ability to dig deep into the underlying causes that bring about this type of behavior. It's a culture of wayward children and the parents/mentors/teachers that continuously ignore the signs.
My feelings are that SSRI drugs, school policy regarding bad kids and the pussification of teachers and school administrators plays a big part in these incidents.
In many ways the trouble making students actually have more rights than the majority of the student body. If students attempt to protect themselves during an altercation with a trouble maker they will receive equal punishment, its like a 'No Fault' insurance for schools to avoid law suits. And at the same time we are told the trouble makers deserve an education and another chance as they continually disrupt the learning environment.
Loren D. Pendergrass, a name that will be etched in my memory until the day I die. He was my grade school principal, he was the judge, the jury and he wielded the 'Board of Education'. These days a Principle is a salaried bureaucrat, more blow than go PR person, who spews the party fluff pieces on Drugs and Bullying. And the Bullying PSA's have a theme of don't take matters into your own hands, come talk to us, when you see something, say something, we are here to help and we will protect you......a bunch of kumbaya to acquiesce students and parents into a false since of security and become sheeple.
No more are there social studies teachers like Norm Dawson, a Navy vet, a Titan II tech, Communist hater and bad ass. Mr. Dawson read one paragraph from the 'approved' education material and deemed it 'Communist Propaganda'. He got everyone's attention by throwing the book into the back wall and the class went off script for the remainder the year. Norm wouldn't put up with anyones crap. There was one day when a student named Mack was sleeping and Mr. Dawson called on him. Mack raised his head and said 'F-You', Mr Dawson replied 'What Did You Say', Mack replied 'F-YOU'..............Mr. Dawson proceeded to yank Mack out of his chair, drag him into the hall and then we heard Mack being slammed against the hall lockers! LOLOLOLOL! Mr. Dawson calmly walked back into the class and said We're did we leave off. In todays world Mr. Dawson would be ostracized by the education community for his feelings on Communism, and he would be fired, and the school district sued for his actions against a disruptive pot head named mack. However if Mr. Dawson embraced Communist Propaganda and bullied Christian students he would be welcomed with open arms by academia.
And if we prescribe meds to kids who are disenchanted with school, or prescribe meds to kids to make them more the norm everything will be Smiling Shining Faces...............
Old Dog New Trick
05-19-2018, 09:57
^^^I’m not so sure that in our time of tough love and strict teachers in school is what prevented us from killing our fellow students. We just didn’t think anything in our lives were so bad that killing our classmates was the solution.
While I do agree that RRSI meds, violent video games and movies, a lack of religious beliefs, and the general decline in social acceptance of others (which has been replaced with mandatory acceptance of all things and people), and many other well discussed issues...I think “failed society” sums up the problem well.
The first rule of fight club is you don’t talk about fight club (yes I know it’s a movie clique about a violent movie.) I think that would be a good start when we as a society talk about school shootings and kids killing kids. First the media has to stop turning these murderers into rock stars. Second the media has to stop saturation broadcast in the immediate aftermath. There will be time to discuss for the world to see our failures. (Note: it should take all of about five minutes of news time to cover all the news worthy points. While not mentioning the murderer by name. ETA: the naming of the suspect will come out without the help of the media, secondly it can come out at trial or death certificate.)
The irresponsible media has perpetuated this since Columbine. This is where the first change has to begin.
The second idea I’ve heard is building every new police station or sub-station on the campus of every new high school. Shift change corresponds with the beginning and end of the school day when applicable. It’s amazing that in today’s dangerous world with school shootings and violence on the rise that high value people like governors and presidents and their families are protected by numerous armed guards but we send hundreds of thousands of our own children to a school building protected by one or two armed officers.
We need to address the gorilla in the room and it’s not the tool being used.
frostfire
05-19-2018, 23:18
[QUOTE=Ret10Echo;643331
We're scared to face the reality that our society is morally failed.
.[/QUOTE]
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
http://johnadamscenter.com/why-john-adams/
Thus, I see more of these incidents occurring and/or the shifting of the government towards a system that can “control” such incident from occurring. Trying hard to find a silver lining here.
Thus, I see more of these incidents occurring and/or the shifting of the government towards a system that can “control” such incident from occurring. Trying hard to find a silver lining here.
The bureaucrats and social engineers never control the problems, they typically make them worse.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/01/25/police-data-uk-violent-crime-wave-grows-even-faster-london/
Badger52
05-20-2018, 11:37
The bureaucrats and social engineers never control the problems, they typically make them worse.This. The powers that be (who have grown themselves ever larger) foster the hands-off approaches by both teachers & parents (who lack confidence in their own sense of right/wrong). There is something to be said for the "settling" of matters socially on the playground during recess or behind the gym, and letting the boo-boos occur as they will. Win/lose/fought to a draw, matter settled. "Oh, that hurts. Oh, so that's what serious blood looks like."
The Beaver didn't "borrow" Dad's shotgun & take it to school because he was tired of tired of being picked on by Eddie Haskell. I say that not as a retro-longing per se but I do not recall this shit happening 50-60 yrs ago.
This. The powers that be (who have grown themselves ever larger) foster the hands-off approaches by both teachers & parents (who lack confidence in their own sense of right/wrong). There is something to be said for the "settling" of matters socially on the playground during recess or behind the gym, and letting the boo-boos occur as they will. Win/lose/fought to a draw, matter settled. "Oh, that hurts. Oh, so that's what serious blood looks like."
The Beaver didn't "borrow" Dad's shotgun & take it to school because he was tired of tired of being picked on by Eddie Haskell. I say that not as a retro-longing per se but I do not recall this shit happening 50-60 yrs ago.
Around 1978 a classmate named Timmon's blew up the stop sign in front of the school with a pipe bomb. It wasn't 10 minutes and Mr. Timmon's was called to the office and escorted out of the building by local police and some guys in suits. We didn't see him for awhile. Sometime later, a year or two I believe, 2 pipe bombs were found in the local grade school and Mr. Timmon's was once again arrested and was never heard from again. So stuff happened, it just wasn't front page news and the scale of carnage wasn't what we see these days.
Today my pranks would be front page news if I blew up that lawn mower engine in shop class, caused that school evacuation after popping a signal smoke and filling the lower floor with thick smoke or I hung a mannequin from a ceiling light fixture with a noose in Art Class. Back in the day I caught serious hell at home and I did some time in ISS, but these days there is a good chance parents would show up to school with an attorney in defense of their child......if I had been thrown in jail my parents would have let me sit in jail for awhile.
Many things that were common place when I was in school like calling each other queer, faggot, homo, morphidite, etc., saying to someone that 'Your Moms your Dad' are now days met with serious consequences. Pushing and shoving now have serious consequences. So there is this hyper-vigilance over some pretty petty things, the school essentially tries to appease all sides, they arbitrate between the parties, but nothing is solved and the parties are left with underling feeling of an uneasy peace.
Today my pranks would not be tolerated even a single time. Name calling and unacceptable behavior would have me in ISS upon the first violation. But today, despite all the new rules, regulations, surveillance, security, and social standards there seem to be more Mr. Timmon's roaming the halls than ever.....
Fostering the hands-off approach, has become fear of consequences, like losing my job and ending up the top story on 5 o'clock news. Thus we kick the can down the road to people like Sheriff Israel to 'protect and serve' the communities and the bureaucrats like Robert Runcie who will come up with a new panel of bureaucrats to come up with new guidelines and new programs to address the problem..........and little if anything gets nipped in the bud, the can gets kicked down the road a little further until the next incident.
50-60 years ago it would have been far more likely that 'the Community' would take care of the matter, if it wasn't taken care of. Back then, clowns like Sheriff Israel, Runcie or punks like those's in Ferguson had a much better chance of getting Skidmored. 70-80 years ago my G-Grandfather shot and killed a man over some horse collars, and he never served a day in prison. Prior that it wasn't uncommon to for the community to chase down criminals with hounds, tree the perp and then serve out justice.
Seems to me we are headed backwards.
GratefulCitizen
05-20-2018, 14:57
Violence in young men is often a quest for social status (even if it is posthumous).
As an example, the Gini coefficient is very effective at predicting male violence, regardless of absolute levels of wealth.
My father was a career public school teacher and observed something interesting about today's schools, and the culture in general.
It's not acceptable to be a "C" student, or to just be an "average" person.
You're either top dog, or nobody.
Achieving high status wasn't always the same thing as avoiding low status.
The two ideas are conflated now.
High status is a positional good, and is by definition scarce.
From the perspective of a young man who hasn't fully developed his emotional muturity, he has little or nothing to lose.
Natural consequences of "everybody's a winner" and participation trophies.
Old Dog New Trick
05-21-2018, 17:52
Received from my kids school today.
Xxxxxxxxxx ISD continues to review and revise our safety protocols and procedures and will be implementing stricter measures for the remainder of the school year, including extra law enforcement personnel. Beginning tomorrow, please DO NOT send students to school with backpacks or bags. In addition, we ask that all students take off jackets/hoodies during arrival. We are implementing this new procedure across the entire district.
We realize this may be an inconvenience for students, staff, and parents, but we ask for your cooperation to help keep our students and schools safe. Our principals will be communicating this to students this afternoon before dismissal. Students who may not have received this message and who bring backpacks/bags to school will be required to leave them in the office and may pick them up at the end of the day.
We understand this change may be disruptive; therefore, we ask that parents and students communicate with us if you have any questions or concerns, and we will do our absolute best to address those as they arise. Please contact your child’s school if you have additional questions.
As a school community, we must all work together to face the new reality we have been given. We will continue to review all safety measures for the remainder of the year and over the summer and will continue to provide proactive communication. Our top priority continues to be the safety of our students, staff, and schools. If you have any information about threats to student safety, please share that through our anonymous Tip Line located on our app and website.
While it is a knee jerk reaction until the end of the school year (Little over a week away), I’m curious what long term plan they will come up with next year and during Winter.
I asked, lunch boxes and bags are okay...guess you can’t hide a shotgun in a sandwich bag.
Ret10Echo
05-22-2018, 06:23
Received from my kids school today.
While it is a knee jerk reaction until the end of the school year (Little over a week away), I’m curious what long term plan they will come up with next year and during Winter.
I asked, lunch boxes and bags are okay...guess you can’t hide a shotgun in a sandwich bag.
Two words
Metal Detector
Textbook costs per year is something around $250 per student
Not to insult anyone's intelligence...let's do simple math.
School population of 1,700 x $250 per student = $425,000
Cost of a walk-through metal detector
(Crazy use of Google search: ) From Grainger (https://www.grainger.com/product/1ZRZ9?cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916684477!!!g!62585700325!&ef_id=WtZlTQAAALSxxRMJ:20180522124623:s)= $4,238
Why is this so freaking complex?
Even factoring in the cost of the staffed security and electric power consumption.
Old Dog New Trick
05-22-2018, 07:35
Why is this so freaking complex?
Because they keep asking ignorant “educators” and unqualified (and ignorant) “police chiefs and legislators” to address a security risk (however unlikely and infinitesimal it may be) and the procedures to protect more ignorant children (speaking about the teenagers who live in fear of the next to zero chance they will ever be shot at in their entire lifetime).
I’m still hoping to sit down with the school superintendent and hopefully the school district police captain and discuss simple yet effective measures the school can take to detect, deter, and if necessary defeat an attack should one ever occur.
A scared society finds it easier - and cheaper - to blame the "tool" for the crime rather than the murderers who are doing the deeds. School shootings happen way before the actual *firing* takes place. However, people refuse to call things - and people - as they are. They are too afraid to *offend* people's sensibilities.
School administrations tend to use the "We are broke" complaint when it comes to finding ways to keep the murderers out of their schools; however, they always seem to find funds for sports. That reveals their priorities.
If they seriously care about the safety of their students, they would support methods of keeping the killers out of their buildings rather than finding funds to pave their parking lots *again* and raising money for new uniforms. They simply aren't serious about the issue....
PedOncoDoc
05-22-2018, 08:10
A scared society finds it easier - and cheaper - to blame the "tool" for the crime rather than the murderers who are doing the deeds. School shootings happen way before the actual *firing* takes place. However, people refuse to call things - and people - as they are. They are too afraid to *offend* people's sensibilities.
School administrations tend to use the "We are broke" complaint when it comes to finding ways to keep the murderers out of their schools; however, they always seem to find funds for sports. That reveals their priorities.
If they seriously care about the safety of their students, they would support methods of keeping the killers out of their buildings rather than finding funds to pave their parking lots *again* and raising money for new uniforms. They simply aren't serious about the issue....
And when one brings up having an armed presence and metal detectors, the gun control advocates jump up and down screaming that it's damaging to the children for schools to feel like prisons. :rolleyes:
Ret10Echo
05-22-2018, 08:18
And when one brings up having an armed presence and metal detectors, the gun control advocates jump up and down screaming that it's damaging to the children for schools to feel like prisons. :rolleyes:
Yes
The same F(&*(%s don't want to admit that they've "broken" America's youth with their spewage.
Old Dog New Trick
05-22-2018, 09:04
And when one brings up having an armed presence and metal detectors, the gun control advocates jump up and down screaming that it's damaging to the children for schools to feel like prisons. :rolleyes:
Right next to the pledge of allegiance in every classroom should be a plaque that reads...
“Why do you call the police when a crazed gunman or jilted student starts shooting up your school and killing your friends? Because they have GUNS!”
Remember, the police are only minutes away when seconds count. With each pull of the killers trigger another one of your friends lay wounded, bleeding and dying. Also remember the Supreme Court has said the police do not have a legal obligation to risk their life in the protection of yours. No matter how insane or how much trouble your BFF will get in, if he, she or xe, says to you or posts on social media “I’m going to kill everyone!” maybe you should tell someone. In the mean time learn how to apply a tourniquet, always have 50% or more battery power on your phone and say this prayer...”I will not be a victim of random violence; if I can run I will run away, if I cannot run I will hide behind cover, not concealment but cover; if I cannot do either of those and if the situation is close and dire I will fight and die if necessary to prevent further loss of life!”
Check out A&E's Undercover High. Seven young-looking adults go undercover to see how high school has changed in the few years that they have been out. This takes place in Topeka, KS. I would not send my child to public school nowadays and I'd fight hard to get the government out of the education business.
Old Dog New Trick
05-22-2018, 09:28
Check out A&E's Undercover High. Seven young-looking adults go undercover to see how high school has changed in the few years that they have been out. This takes place in Topeka, KS. I would not send my child to public school nowadays and I'd fight hard to get the government out of the education business.
aka 21 Jump Street :D
Drugs - check
Guns - check, check
Sex - check, check, check
Theft, cheating, plagiarism, rape, distribution of controlled substance and violence - just keep checking the box...
And that’s every day!
aka 21 Jump Street :D
Drugs - check
Guns - check, check
Sex - check, check, check
Theft, cheating, plagiarism, rape, distribution of controlled substance and violence - just keep checking the box...
And that’s every day!
I told my wife that the best-behaved kids on that show would have been in detention at my high school. She grew up in Los Angeles and is 6 years younger than me. She said that she saw the beginnings of this in her high school.
Badger52
05-22-2018, 11:08
If people who advocate for gun control were any good at practical math, they'd have abandoned any notion of the feasibility of socialism years ago.
I’m still hoping to sit down with the school superintendent and hopefully the school district police captain and discuss simple yet effective measures the school can take to detect, deter, and if necessary defeat an attack should one ever occur.I'll wager the Teacher's Local has the funds in their petty cash drawer in the name of, oh I don't know, prevention of workplace violence for their members? Maybe their union rep should have a seat at that table & get them on record as well. Just a thought.
Two words
Textbook costs per year is something around $250 per student
That figure blows my mind. Having spent very close to that amount for a single required textbook for a single semester college course.
No matter how insane or how much trouble your BFF will get in, if he, she or xe, says to you or posts on social media “I’m going to kill everyone!” maybe you should tell someone.”
To what avail? How many mass shootings have been prevented due to investigations by local police or federal agents? Of course, we never hear about those from the main stream media, but there has to be some. On the other hand, every time a new shooting occurs, we hear almost the same hour from officials that the assailant/murderer/pussy was "known" to law enforcement.
To what avail?
Exactly! The Cruz kid in Parkland called 911 on himself and no action was taken.
That figure blows my mind. Having spent very close to that amount for a single required textbook for a single semester college course.
To what avail? How many mass shootings have been prevented due to investigations by local police or federal agents? Of course, we never hear about those from the main stream media, but there has to be some. On the other hand, every time a new shooting occurs, we hear almost the same hour from officials that the assailant/murderer/pussy was "known" to law enforcement.
Exactly! The Cruz kid in Parkland called 911 on himself and no action was taken.
It matters not that there are some that get through the cracks. You will never know about the two that were stopped by my son's department within two weeks of each other because *other* students informed on them during the planning phase for one of them and suspicious statements made by another on social media was investigated once learned of.
I don't quit getting the message out because the system failed in a couple of incidents. I think that society failed even more.....
Old Dog New Trick
05-22-2018, 13:12
Hand and PSM:
Do we give up because the system failed, and should we keep pounding that same square peg into the same round hole (resembling a toilet) to see change?
I don’t what happened to them now but shortly after Parkland two high school students and a middle school student made social media threats that were reported and the police swarmed their houses and arrested them. I’m sure the rest of their lives will be different and if they hated their public school they’ll probably like their alternative school even less. Practical joke or not no one was laughing.
bblhead672
05-22-2018, 13:27
How many mass shootings have been prevented due to investigations by local police or federal agents? Of course, we never hear about those from the main stream media, but there has to be some. On the other hand, every time a new shooting occurs, we hear almost the same hour from officials that the assailant/murderer/pussy was "known" to law enforcement.
There was one recently in Dallas suburb where one of my nephews lives.
Plano Man Arrested for Soliciting Others to Assist Him in Committing an ISIS-Inspired Mass Shooting (http://www.friscotexas.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=470)
(May 2, 2018) A 17-year-old Plano man has been arrested for criminal solicitation of capital murder and making a terroristic threat, announced Collin County District Attorney Greg Willis on behalf of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Frisco Police Department, and the Plano Police Department.
Matin Azizi-Yarand, a high school student, was arrested for making terroristic threats to carry out his plan of committing a mass shooting at a local mall and for soliciting other individuals to assist him in the mass shooting attack.
Old Dog New Trick
05-29-2018, 07:01
On another un-(or is it - un)related topic, summer is almost here for tens of thousands of high school students. Many of which will not return to school next year or make it to college or a first job. You see the number one killer of these kids is these kids and a car of course. You have heard of the “100 Days of Summer” yes? That is where on average 10 teenage kids will die each day in a car crash. Usually fueled by drinking, drug use or speed.
Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Summer means increased risk of dying in car crashes for teens
https://usat.ly/2IQdw8x
You would think that these youth leaders with their powerful messages on “not one more...” and “enough is enough” do something in Congress message would be protesting in the streets and “marching for our life” to stop under-aged drinking and driving, just say no to drugs, and no one needs 500-Horsepower engines.
Maybe they should go after the car manufacturers and corporations that donate millions and lobby Congress to allow them to keep making cars with the same inadequate safety and fuel ratings and emission standards as twenty years ago or longer.
Surely these kids would be happy with an electric smart car that can detect when they are impaired, or there are more kids in the car than seatbelts, or that the level of the drivers licensing limits allowed by the state for minors (under the age of 21) are being followed (e.g., no underage passengers, no driving between hours of darkness (only under special circumstances as to and from school or place of work), no use of cellular devices (handheld or otherwise), etc...) the car will not operate if it detects another device capable of sending or receiving cellular data and voice transmissions other than the data being collected and sent to parents or city planners by the cars onboard system. Also that these cars can only use SLR technology or GPS to govern speed...because we all know that these signs “Gun Free Zone” and “Drug Free Zone” have worked so well keeping both of those off school campuses.
This is it, until you are 21 years of age this is the only car you can own and drive. It comes with dealer installed options that place steel cages in the font and rear seats reducing the number of passengers allowed. A 5-Point retention seatbelt for each allowable seat space. Breathalyzer and Retina scan ignition technology. It uses only sign recognition technology to detect speed limits, parking restrictions, turn and u-turn restrictions and control lights and signs to move, stop or slow. In the absence of readable signs the vehicle is controlled by GPS and preset limits established by the city (e.g., when not posted the maximum legal speed limit is 25-MPH in the city limits.) The car must also emit an audible sound and visual lighting for deaf and blind persons that cannot be muffled, altered or silenced. No trailer hitch or other devices may be attached to the car to make it more useful or enjoyable. It can be had in any color as long as it is white and has “STUDENT DRIVER” in orange letters stenciled on the front and rear of the car with a visible warning triangle on the roof.
We are a nation of laws and when our laws are not followed horrible and unimaginable acts are sure to happen.
Enough, not one more child should die at the hands of another child! Not in our school parking lots and not on our highways and backroads.
Tell your Senators and Congressional members, your Governors, and your President that you demand action today before one more life is lost. Let’s stop the madness...people under 21 should not be able to buy Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers and minivans capable of holding more than one adult passenger.
People have privileges and we as a nation should adopt and adapt to the demands of our children for they know best and have the experience and leadership to show us the right way forward.
Combat Diver
05-29-2018, 22:13
On another un-(or is it - un)related topic, summer is almost here for tens of thousands of high school students. Many of which will not return to school next year or make it to college or a first job. You see the number one killer of these kids is these kids and a car of course. You have heard of the “100 Days of Summer” yes? That is where on average 10 teenage kids will die each day in a car crash. Usually fueled by drinking, drug use or speed.
Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Summer means increased risk of dying in car crashes for teens
https://usat.ly/2IQdw8x
You would think that these youth leaders with their powerful messages on “not one more...” and “enough is enough” do something in Congress message would be protesting in the streets and “marching for our life” to stop under-aged drinking and driving, just say no to drugs, and no one needs 500-Horsepower engines.
Maybe they should go after the car manufacturers and corporations that donate millions and lobby Congress to allow them to keep making cars with the same inadequate safety and fuel ratings and emission standards as twenty years ago or longer.
Surely these kids would be happy with an electric smart car that can detect when they are impaired, or there are more kids in the car than seatbelts, or that the level of the drivers licensing limits allowed by the state for minors (under the age of 21) are being followed (e.g., no underage passengers, no driving between hours of darkness (only under special circumstances as to and from school or place of work), no use of cellular devices (handheld or otherwise), etc...) the car will not operate if it detects another device capable of sending or receiving cellular data and voice transmissions other than the data being collected and sent to parents or city planners by the cars onboard system. Also that these cars can only use SLR technology or GPS to govern speed...because we all know that these signs “Gun Free Zone” and “Drug Free Zone” have worked so well keeping both of those off school campuses.
This is it, until you are 21 years of age this is the only car you can own and drive. It comes with dealer installed options that place steel cages in the font and rear seats reducing the number of passengers allowed. A 5-Point retention seatbelt for each allowable seat space. Breathalyzer and Retina scan ignition technology. It uses only sign recognition technology to detect speed limits, parking restrictions, turn and u-turn restrictions and control lights and signs to move, stop or slow. In the absence of readable signs the vehicle is controlled by GPS and preset limits established by the city (e.g., when not posted the maximum legal speed limit is 25-MPH in the city limits.) The car must also emit an audible sound and visual lighting for deaf and blind persons that cannot be muffled, altered or silenced. No trailer hitch or other devices may be attached to the car to make it more useful or enjoyable. It can be had in any color as long as it is white and has “STUDENT DRIVER” in orange letters stenciled on the front and rear of the car with a visible warning triangle on the roof.
We are a nation of laws and when our laws are not followed horrible and unimaginable acts are sure to happen.
Enough, not one more child should die at the hands of another child! Not in our school parking lots and not on our highways and backroads.
Tell your Senators and Congressional members, your Governors, and your President that you demand action today before one more life is lost. Let’s stop the madness...people under 21 should not be able to buy Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers and minivans capable of holding more than one adult passenger.
People have privileges and we as a nation should adopt and adapt to the demands of our children for they know best and have the experience and leadership to show us the right way forward.
Don't forget the Govt needs to collect another $200 for the muffler which you have to wait 6-12 months for. Plus you have to be 21 yo to buy it.
CD
Old Dog New Trick
05-30-2018, 04:50
Don't forget the Govt needs to collect another $200 for the muffler which you have to wait 6-12 months for. Plus you have to be 21 yo to buy it.
CD
Excellent point!
Yes, and there should a universal background check and questions like have you now or have you ever smoked marijuana or used class III prescription drugs without a prescription?
Have you been judged mentally incapacitated or evaluated by a psychiatrist for depression, anxiety, thoughts of suicide, bi-polar or schizophrenia?
It’s a privilege to drive a motor vehicle that comes with great responsibility so a few questions similar to those on a 4473 should absolutely apply to being given the keys to something as dangerous as an automobile.
In the bluest of blue counties...the land of Brenda Snipes and Debbie Wasserman-Shultz...this is how they do things. Many embedded links to additional information. Excerpt below - complete article at link.
Hide, deny, spin, threaten: How the school district tried to mask failures that led to Parkland shooting
Brittany Wallman, Megan O'Matz and Paula McMahon
South Florida Sun Sentinel
12/4/18
Immediately after 17 people were murdered inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, the school district launched a persistent effort to keep people from finding out what went wrong.
For months, Broward schools delayed or withheld records, refused to publicly assess the role of employees, spread misinformation and even sought to jail reporters who published the truth.
New information gathered by the South Florida Sun Sentinel proves that the school district knew far more than it’s saying about a disturbed former student obsessed with death and guns who mowed down staff and students with an assault rifle on Valentine’s Day.
After promising an honest assessment of what led to the shooting, the district instead hired a consultant whose primary goal, according to school records, was preparing a legal defense. Then the district kept most of those findings from the public.
The district also spent untold amounts on lawyers to fight the release of records and nearly $200,000 to pay public relations consultants who advised administrators to clam up, the Sun Sentinel found.
School administrators insist that they have been as transparent as possible; that federal privacy laws prevent them from revealing the school record of gunman Nikolas Cruz; that discussing security in detail would make schools more dangerous; and that answers ultimately will come when a state commission releases its initial findings about the shooting around New Year’s.
Beyond that, though, the cloak of secrecy illustrates the steps a beleaguered public body will take to manage and hide information in a crisis when reputations, careers and legal liability are at stake.
It also highlights the shortcomings of federal education laws that protect even admitted killers like Cruz who are no longer students. Behind a shield of privacy laws and security secrets, schools can cover up errors and withhold information the public needs in order to heal and to evaluate the people entrusted with their children’s lives.
Nine months after the Parkland shooting, few people have been held accountable — or even identified — for mishandling security and failing to react to signs that the troubled Cruz could erupt. Only two low-level security monitors have been fired.
Three assistant principals and a security specialist were finally transferred out of Stoneman Douglas this week as a result of information revealed by the state commission, but the district refused to say exactly what the employees did wrong.
“Obviously it seems to me there were multiple failures in the system,” said longtime businessman John Daly Sr. of Coral Springs, who with a few others started the activist group Concerned Citizens of Broward County in response to what they considered security lapses. “And basically it looked, more or less, like a cover-up, because they weren’t forthcoming about how they handled the situation.”
Superintendent Robert Runcie stresses that the school district has made no attempt to conceal information except when lawyers said it could not be released.
“That can’t be characterized — and should not be characterized — as the district doesn’t want to provide more information,” he said. “We work to be as transparent as possible. … We have nothing to hide.”
“There’s no conversation anywhere in this district about withholding any information that we can readily provide. I haven’t had those conversations. I haven’t heard about them.”
Familiar promises
Runcie has professed openness from the beginning, but reporters and families of dead children have been denied information time and again.
In May, three months after the shooting, Runcie said: “Look, we want to be as transparent and as clear as possible. … It's the only way that we're going to get better as a school district, as a society, to make sure that we can put things in place so that these types of tragedies don't happen again.”
In March, he said, “We cannot undo the heartbreak this attack has caused in the community, but we can try to understand the conditions that led to such acts in hopes of avoiding them in the future.”
That statement came as he announced what he called an “independent, comprehensive assessment” that would be done with “transparency and a sense of urgency.”
The review fell short of what he described.
Without taking bids or interviewing consultants, the district let its outside law firm hire Collaborative Educational Network of Tallahassee, a contractor that had worked for Broward schools before and knew school board attorney Barbara Myrick professionally.
CEN’s contract, for $60,000, did not demand the thorough and transparent review that Runcie promised. Rather, it directed the consultant to analyze Cruz’s school records, interview educators and keep the details secret. The contract required the consultant to “further assist the client in ongoing litigation matters.”
CEN spent several months analyzing one issue: whether Broward schools satisfied the law in the education of Nikolas Cruz, a one-time special education student, or whether “areas of concern” should be addressed. The review made no attempt to assess whether the district adequately protected students or failed to act on Cruz’s often-spoken plans for violence. Though Runcie said other agencies would be interviewed, none were.
The report, released in August after a court battle, concluded that the district generally treated Cruz properly. Exactly how, the public could not tell.
With a judge’s approval, the district obscured references to Cruz — nearly two-thirds of the text — to protect his privacy under law. Only when the Sun Sentinel obtained and published an uncensored copy did the truth come out: Cruz was deeply troubled; the district improperly withdrew support he needed; he asked for additional services; and the district bungled his request, leaving him spinning without help.
What the report didn’t say
Startling as those details were, they pale in light of new information obtained by the Sun Sentinel, none of it included in the consultant’s report or shared publicly by the school district.
The district was well aware that Cruz, for years, was unstable and possibly murderous:
-- “I’m a bad kid. I want to kill,” Cruz, now 20 years old, ominously told a teacher in middle school.
-- “I strongly feel that Nikolas is a danger to the students and faculty at this school,” Cruz’s eighth-grade language arts teacher wrote in a behavioral evaluation. “I do not feel that he understands the difference between his violent video games and reality.”
-- In middle school, he “stated he felt nervous about one day going to jail and wondered what would happen to him if he did something bad.”
-- Cruz told one teacher in October 2013 — 4½ years before his Parklandrampage — that “I would rather be on the street killing animals and setting fires.”
-- The same year, his eighth-grade class was discussing the Civil War in America. He “became fixated on the assassination of Abraham Lincoln,” a teacher noted. “What did it sound like when Lincoln was shot?” he asked. “Did it go pop, pop, pop really fast? Was there blood everywhere?”
-- At Westglades Middle School, at the beginning of eighth grade, one girl’s mother called to have her transferred out of Cruz’s class because she was concerned for her child’s safety. The mother called Cruz a “menace to society,” according to a psychosocial assessment.
In short, the school district’s own records reveal Nikolas Cruz to be a tortured teen liable to explode at any time. Yet the analysis the district commissioned to help the communityoo “understand,” as Runcie promised, makes no mention of those episodes.
Ryan Petty, whose 14-year-old daughter, Alaina, was murdered at Stoneman Douglas, was angered that the report all but absolved the school district of responsibility.
“I have absolutely no trust that the district has any interest in policing itself,” Petty said.
Fighting public access
The school district began to lock down information right after the shooting, declaring that all Stoneman Douglas records were secret, even those the public had a legal right to see.
“At this time, any records pertaining to Stoneman Douglas High will not be released,” the district’s risk management department said in an email to reporters in February.
Even employees were subject to restraints. Some received letters of reprimand — not for mishandling Cruz, but for accessing his private records after the shooting.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-district-secrecy-20181112-story.html
bblhead672
12-04-2018, 17:06
Some left wing indoctrinators (formerly known as educators) need to lose their jobs and face both criminal and civil charges for the failures of the system to act upon known threats by the shooter.
Badger52
12-05-2018, 11:20
This type of behavior (by the school & district) is institutional. Scale up x10 to understand why we don't know more particulars - and answers to publicly asked questions - about the Las Vegas concert massacre.
When you remember that the bulk of Akademia is solidly on the left, it is not hard to understand why they would never want to be shown incompetent, while dancing in the blood of the victims. I would say it is torches & pitchforks time at the very next school meetings, including the Broward district. Broward residents should attend & make them feel "uncomfortable."
A AM radio talking head was chiming in on the Judge denying the lawsuit by Parkland students that claimed they were denied their rights by Sheriff Isreal and his Broward County Keystone Kopps as guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.
Today was the first I had heard about it...
https://www.nbc-2.com/story/39668764/judge-denies-parkland-lawsuit-says-failure-to-stop-shooting-didnt-violate-rights
While the protection of the 14th Amendment may not cover this situation, student across the country should now be asking themselves exactly when are are the Police and Law Enforcement responsible for their protection....
Maybe the Police and Law Enforcement have the same responsibility and liability as your local code official.....ZERO.
Old Dog New Trick
12-19-2018, 18:43
While the protection of the 14th Amendment may not cover this situation, student across the country should now be asking themselves exactly when are are the Police and Law Enforcement responsible for their protection....
Maybe the Police and Law Enforcement have the same responsibility and liability as your local code official.....ZERO.
This has already been ruled on at several levels all the way to the Supreme Court. The police have no obligation or legal requirements to risk their lives to protect their citizens.
Nothing will change until citizens sue their local city councilmembers and local state governments to return unrestricted access to firearms by lawful citizens to protect themselves and others as they see fit.
Start by suing former VP and Senator Joe Biden for coming up with the stupid Gun Free Zones that prevent law abiding citizens their constitutional second amendment rights to self defense.
This has already been ruled on at several levels all the way to the Supreme Court. The police have no obligation or legal requirements to risk their lives to protect their citizens.
Nothing will change until citizens sue their local city councilmembers and local state governments to return unrestricted access to firearms by lawful citizens to protect themselves and others as they see fit.
Start by suing former VP and Senator Joe Biden for coming up with the stupid Gun Free Zones that prevent law abiding citizens their constitutional second amendment rights to self defense.
That was my impression. On top of that all the emergency policies, security measures, rent a cops and metal detectors, etc. are primarily in place to limit the legal liability of the school districts should something go awry....not protect the students.
Protect the innocent.....
...funniest shit I've ever heard.
The police have no obligation to protect anyone, they are there to Enforce The Laws.
SCOTUS case Warren vs DC
This has been law of the land since 1976
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
If yo want protection than it is you who has to provide it. This case is a cornerstone for the 2A. If not the police than who?
When you put this to the Gun Control crowd they have nothing to say afterwards.
Badger52
12-30-2018, 19:14
When you put this to the Gun Control crowd they have nothing to say afterwards.They won't; they'll get nervous & deflect/dissemble. Give 'em an overciew of DeShaney v. Winnebago County as well & see if they agree with SCOTUS that repeated, institutionalized & documented indifference to the plight of the victim over a period of years still didn't meet the test that they had a duty to protect (remove the child from an abusive father). When a state abrogates the purview they want to exercise, it's all off. And then, baby, it's on.
Please share the story - the systemic incompetence on display for all who care to see in BLUE Broward County, Florida, is just how progressive Statists roll.
Leftist policy tends to poison the segment of society it touches.
A Parkland Father’s Quest for Accountability
‘I blame the murderer for 50% of what happened,’ Andrew Pollack says. ‘There were so many people who didn’t care, who didn’t do their job.’
WSJ
By Tunku Varadarajan
Jan. 11, 2019 6:30 p.m. ET
Lake Wales, Fla.
In a campground near Lake Kissimmee, Andrew Pollack and I sit in the shadow of a white RV, his spartan home. He broods by my side in cargo shorts and a T-shirt. He’s just sold his large house in Coral Springs, Fla., because he feels “physically sick to be in Broward County,” where his 18-year-old daughter was shot dead last Valentine’s Day at Marjory Stoneman Douglas School in Parkland. He’s lived in his RV for nearly three weeks with his wife and their Belgian puppy, who isn’t yet at ease with life in a mobile home. A campfire burns skittishly in the lakeside wind, its blaze nothing compared with Mr. Pollack’s burning rage.
A lean and rugged 52, he is a man of adamant words: He always says that his daughter, Meadow, was “murdered.” He scolds me—then swiftly apologizes—when I once say she “died.” I ask him about her name, and he tells me he and her mother (from whom Mr. Pollack is divorced) got it from “The Sopranos”: “I thought it was a pretty name. All my kids have unique names. Huck is my oldest, from Huck Finn. My other son’s called Hunter.”
There is a lull for a moment, as Mr. Pollack struggles to compose himself. He tells me he cannot bear to utter the name of Nikolas Cruz, the former student at Meadow’s school who is charged with killing 17 people—14 students and three adult staff members—in 11 minutes of unchecked carnage, making Parkland the worst high-school shooting in U.S. history. “I call him by his prison ID number,” Mr. Pollack says. “It’s 18-1958.”
In the 11 months since Meadow was murdered, Mr. Pollack has been transformed from an ordinary suburban dad and rental-market realtor to a vehement, in-your-face crusader for school safety. Days after the Parkland shooting, he met with President Trump at the White House. “We spoke for a while in the Oval Office,” Mr. Pollack says, “and that’s when I recommended to him that he should put together a commission on school safety.” In Mr. Pollack’s account, “the president then points his finger at Hope Hicks”—then White House communications director—“and he says, ‘I like that. I want to do that.’ ” Mr. Pollack returned to the White House when the commission’s report was presented 10 months later, sitting at a table to the president’s right. He has co-written a book, “Why Meadow Died: The People and Policies That Created the Parkland Shooter and Endangered America’s Students,” to be published next month.
He doesn’t like to be called a “crusader” and says “I’m not a politician.” Yet Mr. Pollack is now a player in Florida’s politics. The day before we met at his RV, then-Gov. Rick Scott appointed him to the State Board of Education. He says he’ll use his position on the seven-member board to ensure “accountability,” a word he uses frequently. His objective, he says, is to hold to account “every individual, every institution, every policy” that led to his daughter’s death.
“I blame the murderer for 50% of what happened,” Mr. Pollack says. “I don’t blame him for the whole thing. Because there were just so many people who didn’t care, who didn’t do their job, that I blame them for the other 50%. And I need to expose them. That’s how I bounce back.” He pauses and corrects himself: “No, I don’t bounce back. I’ll never do that. I can’t even smile in photographs anymore, can’t show my teeth.” He thinks “day in, and day out” about accountability “for these people, because of whom I can’t walk my daughter down the aisle.”
Mr. Pollack believes that “political correctness killed Meadow.” A prominent villain in his narrative is Robert Runcie, who came to Broward from Chicago in 2011 as the superintendent of the county’s public schools. Mr. Runcie introduced a program called Promise—a feel-good acronym for Preventing Recidivism through Opportunities, Mentoring, Interventions, Support and Education—under which students who commit crimes in public schools would no longer be reported to the police by administrators. Under Promise, students would be evaluated and dealt with exclusively within the schools and their associated reform programs. Even felonies as severe as drug dealing, sexual assault and bringing weapons to school could lawfully be kept from the police.
Mr. Runcie “saw that minority students were being referred to the police at higher rates than whites,” as Mr. Pollack tells it. “Rather than recognize that misbehavior can be the result of many complex problems outside school, or at home,” the superintendent concluded the disparity was because “teachers and schools were racist.” With no reporting, “now there’s no crime. The school’s data looks great. Problem solved.”
But a much worse problem was created: “No student has a criminal background as a result, so once you graduate from school and want to buy a gun, background checks are useless.”
Mr. Runcie and his supporters called their policy “discipline reform.” Violent students had to attend “healing circles,” among other sorts of in-house, nonjudicial remedies. The result, says Mr. Pollack—so agitated that he almost shouts—is that “mentally disturbed students, violent psychopaths like 18-1958, are right there in the classroom with normal students like my daughter, and with teachers who don’t know how to deal with them, since they can’t bring in the cops.” As Mr. Pollack writes in his forthcoming book: “His entire life, 18-1958 was practically screaming, ‘If you ignore me, I could become a mass murderer.’ ” Parkland, he says, “was the most avoidable mass shooting in American history. 18-1958 was never going to be a model citizen, but it truly took a village to raise him into a school shooter.”
Mr. Pollack describes the Broward County School District as “Ground Zero for a horrible approach to school safety that spread across America.” In January 2014, the Obama administration issued guidelines to the nation’s school boards, directing them to adopt Promise-like policies or risk a federal investigation and loss of funding. The report of the Trump school-safety commission, published Dec. 18, recommends abolishing such programs. “School boards won’t be hounded anymore to put these policies in place,” Mr. Pollack says. “But there’s nothing to stop a board from choosing to adopt Promise.” And Broward County has not abandoned it.
Mr. Pollack gives a detailed, impassioned account of the shooter’s behavior at school, every instance of which was reported to administrators and not to police. In middle school, the combustible adolescent was required to have adult supervision at all times. In high school, he vandalized a bathroom, causing more than $1,000 of damage. He racially abused black students and had fistfights with them. He carved swastikas on his desk. He hurled furniture across classrooms. He threw hard objects at other students, sometimes injuring them. He brought dead animals to school and often waved them before other students. He threatened to kill teachers and other students, and to shoot up the school. He wrote “KILL” in his notebooks and spoke frequently about guns. He brought knives to school and, on one occasion, a backpack full of bullets.
“After that,” says Mr. Pollack, “the school banned him from bringing a backpack to school. But I ask you, if he’s too dangerous to wear a backpack, why isn’t he too dangerous to be in class with kids like my daughter?”
Continued below...
Continued from WSJ article above.
The political correctness that is anathema to Mr. Pollack appears to have infected Broward County law enforcement as well. Sheriff Scott Israel was on a drive to reduce juvenile arrests, and the department allowed Cruz to keep a clean record even though deputies were called to his home 45 times in his middle- and high-school years. On one of these occasions, “he’d punched his mother so hard in the mouth that she’d needed to get a new set of teeth,” Mr. Pollack says. “Sheriff Israel judged his success by how many kids he kept out of jail. When officers never arrested 18-1958 despite 45 calls, they were following Israel’s policy.” On Friday the new governor, Ron DeSantis, suspended Mr. Israel from office. Mr. Pollack and two other Parkland parents stood alongside Mr. DeSantis as he made the announcement in Fort Lauderdale.
Cruz’s mother, who died three months before the shooting, was encouraged by Henderson Behavioral Health, Broward’s largest mental-health provider, to let her son “earn” a pellet gun for good behavior in 2014—which he proceeded to use to shoot at the neighbors’ pets and children. Henderson refused repeatedly to institutionalize Cruz, even as his mother pleaded with them to do so. In the week of his 18th birthday, Mr. Pollack tells me, she called them desperately, but their response to her pleas was that Cruz should be engaged “in coping skills such as reading magazines, watching TV, fishing and spending time with pets,” according to the health center’s own records.
Mr. Pollack has sued Henderson for wrongful death—“for their negligent approach to this murderer, for failing to deal with this psychopath.” In a statement last May, Henderson said it had no involvement with Cruz after 2016 and that the shooting “was not a tragedy that could have been lawfully prevented by Henderson.”
Mr. Pollack has also sued Scott Peterson, the armed deputy who was on the school’s premises the day of the massacre but chose to remain outside the building. Mr. Peterson has since resigned from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office. But “he’s got his pension,” Mr. Pollock says, “$100,000 a year. This man—this coward. He retreats behind a pillar for 45 minutes. If he’d just gone in to the second floor—the shooter had just walked across there—he could have had a clear shot.” Mr. Pollack cites Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics to tell me that “shooters either give up or kill themselves if confronted with a weapon. They go into a gun-free zone thinking no one’s going to shoot back at them.”
Even though other deputies arrived within minutes—and didn’t go into the school either—Mr. Pollack is focused on Mr. Peterson, whom he sees as an embodiment of the forces that failed his daughter. Mr. Peterson’s lawyers moved to dismiss the lawsuit, arguing that the deputy didn’t have a duty to enter the school building. To which, Mr. Pollack tells me, the judge replied: “This is your defense? You’re telling me that this deputy didn’t have the duty to go in and save those kids?” The judge allowed the suit to go forward.
Punishment is not Mr. Pollack’s only objective, he says. The lawsuits allow him to “subpoena people throughout the whole district, school administrators, other deputies, policemen from the department in Coral Springs that did the right thing and rushed the building.” That, he expects, will “expose the incompetence in Broward County that goes right up to the sheriff.”
Mr. Pollack’s cause is righteous, but also lonely. “I feel a lot of times that it’s just my battle,” he says. “A lot of the other parents aren’t as focused on exposing these people as I am. To me, I have to do it for my daughter. And I’m not going to rest until I get accountability in the courtroom.” Nothing, it is clear, can fill the aching void in his life. He tells me that he stopped praying after Meadow was murdered. “I can’t,” he says. “I just can’t. At night, I used to thank God for my life. It’s tough for me to do that now. How could I? How would I? I’ll never have Meadow back.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-parkland-fathers-quest-for-accountability-11547249451
Mr. Varadarajan is executive editor at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution.
Appeared in the January 12, 2019, print edition.
Badger52
01-12-2019, 21:22
Thanks for sharing that. Too many take-aways not to share it further.
Old Dog New Trick
01-13-2019, 09:22
Well, the Sheriff is gone now thanks to the new Governor. Let’s hope he takes up the challenge to fight it and actually gets “fired” and loses his pension.
The only way things improve in the future is for the parents of these kids to sue the school boards and local ‘leadership’ into persons financial bankruptcy.
When you assume the responsibility to protect others from peril and deny the Constitutional rights of the people to protect themselves and others, you also assume the risk and jeopardy of that failure when something happens.
bblhead672
01-14-2019, 09:01
The country needs more parents like Mr. Pollack who is mad as hell and not going to take it anymore. Parents need to remove their heads from the sand (or wherever they have them) and understand that the majority of school districts are: a) not interested in educating their children; b) not interested in protecting their children from psychopaths like "18-1958" and c) very interested in implementing a progressive socialist agenda and will sacrifice as many children's lives, educations and futures as necessary to achieve that agenda.
Florida Senate permanently removes Scott Israel as Broward sheriff
By ANTHONY MAN
SOUTH FLORIDA SUN SENTINEL |
OCT 23, 2019 | 5:50 PM
| TALLAHASSEE
The Florida Senate voted Wednesday to permanently remove suspended Broward Sheriff Scott Israel.
The 25-15 vote was mostly along party lines with Republicans, who are a majority in the Senate and are loyal to the Republican governor, generally supporting removal while most Democrats voted to reinstate the Democratic sheriff. All five Broward senators voted for reinstatement, despite Parkland parents’ wishes.
The man who many hold responsible for the Marjory Stoneman Douglas massacre has been out of office since January, when he was suspended by Gov. Ron DeSantis. But state senators had the authority to deliver the final verdict on whether to permanently remove or reinstate him.
Permanent removal was seen as the most likely outcome, especially after a vote Monday in the Senate Rules Committee, which recommended removal.
State Sen. Tom Lee, R-Brandon, split with his party and governor on Wednesday and voted against removing Israel.
Lee said he had serious concerns about the fairness of the process — and said Israel has as many rights as the school shooter will enjoy during his trial — and said he had concerns about the precedent set that could lead to future sheriffs being suspended for the actions of one deputy.
"Based on the acts of an individual deputy on an individual day," Lee said prior to his vote, "We are establishing new law."
"You can't have confidence that justice is being conducted here when things are being added on the fly," Lee said, adding that neither Israel nor his attorney cannot adequately counter the new information.
But Senate Republican leader Kathleen Passidomo rejected the complaints from Israel supporters that his due process rights were violated.
Sheriff Israel received a full and thoughtful hearing in the Senate Rules Committee,” she said.
And Republican Sen. Rob Bradley said Israel had had plenty of opportunities to present his case. “Mr. Israel got his day in court,” he said. “Due process has been served and justice has been served.” He added, “Mr. Israel — if he is removed today — is not being removed due to the acts of a single deputy. ... The institution failed and he was its leader.”
“Mr. Israel’s stunning callousness in some of his statements” in the days after Parkland shooting, and his refusal to accept accountability “only made a horrible and tragic situation worse and that’s part of leadership too,” Bradley added. “Today is the day for accountability.”
Democrat Sens. Annette Taddeo and Darryl Rouson broke with their party and voted against reinstating Israel.
Taddeo said she needed to listen to the voices of the Parkland parents.
"I am taking the call of the parents,” she said. “I understand and I will vote to recommend the suspension of Sheriff Israel."
"Our job today is to arrive at our own conclusion based on all the evidence that exists,” Rouson said. "The policies created by the sheriff shape the actions of the deputy."
"I make this decision today not based on a primary opponent. Not based on the next election. But I make it because I believe that it’s the right decision,” Rouson said as he announced his intention to vote for Israel’s removal.
Sen. Perry Thurston, a Democrat who represents parts of Broward and sits on the Rules Committee, voted for the second time in the week to reinstate Israel.
“I can stand here and I can tell you how I empathize with the Parkland parents,” Thurston said. "I'm not disregarding them. None of us would."
But “95% of Broward County feels differently about the attempt to remove the sheriff.” He said that sheriffs across the state should be worried about precedent being set if Israel is removed.
"We have credibility here in the Senate. We are the Florida Senate,” Thursday said. “But we are being judged too. The whole world is watching."
Sen. Kevin Rader, a Democrat who is based in Palm Beach County but whose district extends into northwest Broward — including the Stoneman Douglas campus, said the high standard for proof for removal had not been met.
"We are tasked between deciding about how we feel and the dangerous precedent we leave behind," Rader said.
"After much thought and soul searching,” he said as he announced his intention to support reinstatement, "the vote I take today is one of the most difficult I’ve been faced with and certainly the most personal to my district in all my years as a legislator."
As the vote inched closer, South Florida Democratic Sen. Gary Farmer made impassioned statements about the massacre and the vote.
“Because of the horrendous and ghastly nature of that event, it’s easy to be moved by the emotion and the pleas of the parents who are still grieving and who forever will be grieving for the loss of their children," Farmer said. " But if senators were interested only in heeding pleas from Parkland parents, the Legislature would have enacted a ban on assault weapons.
“We are a country founded on rule of law. We cannot base our decision on emotion,” Farmer said. Israel “soiled his own performance. I am not going to defend his performance ... but again, that is not a sufficient reason to ignore the will of Broward County voters and remove him from office.”
Though the ultimate outcome was expected, especially after the Rules Committee recommendation on Monday against reinstatement, Parkland parents weren’t leaving anything for chance. Many were in the halls of the Capitol and Senate office building on Tuesday and Wednesday morning, meeting with as many senators as they can to press for Israel’s removal.
Although Galvano didn’t want senators to comment about the case before voting, the Senate has allowed private, one-on-one conversations with senators urging them how to vote.
DeSantis beefed up his effort with a new attorney and the governor’s team and Parkland parents have been lobbying senators, an effort that intensified as this week’s special session got closer and after a special master appointed by the Senate president to examine the case recommended reinstating Israel.
Special Master Dudley Goodlette said the governor’s office didn’t offer sufficient justification for removing Israel.
Israel’s lawyer, Benedict Kuehne, has portrayed the Senate process as more like a judicial proceeding and said no one representing the suspended sheriff has been lobbying. The Israel camp has hinted that it could go to federal court and pursue a claim that Israel’s rights have been violated during the suspension proceedings.
This is a developing story, and will be updated. Click here to have breaking news alerts sent directly to your inbox.
Anthony Man can be reached at aman@sunsentinel.com or @browardpolitics on Twitter.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-scott-israel-florida-senate-decision-20191023-rcyhd7ufcfft5dd3ixwxyuohba-story.html
While I like the result in this case, the position of Sheriff was supposed to be beyond the reach of state and federal politicians. It was designed to be the last refuge before the militia from a tyrannical government, state or federal. The sheriff was to be solely responsible to the people of their county. This should have been left up to the citizens. This is a very slippery slope endangering our freedoms.
Badger52
10-24-2019, 05:06
While I like the result in this case, the position of Sheriff was supposed to be beyond the reach of state and federal politicians. It was designed to be the last refuge before the militia from a tyrannical government, state or federal. The sheriff was to be solely responsible to the people of their county. This should have been left up to the citizens. This is a very slippery slope endangering our freedoms.Concur. By appearances the guy's conduct was worthy of calling leadership into question. But this should've been a recall by the electorate, not a trial in the legislature.
Intel NCO
10-24-2019, 05:17
While I like the result in this case, the position of Sheriff was supposed to be beyond the reach of state and federal politicians. It was designed to be the last refuge before the militia from a tyrannical government, state or federal. The sheriff was to be solely responsible to the people of their county. This should have been left up to the citizens. This is a very slippery slope endangering our freedoms.
Agreed. This is why the voters can remove them, not state senators don't live in that area.
Agreed. This is why the voters can remove them, not state senators don't live in that area.
Nope. That area is a cesspool of leftist and the exsheriff is a steamer. He should be gone. While I do understand the implications of the mode of his removal, I agree with the Governor’s actions.
It will be interesting to see how the Broward county proletariat bourgeoisie votes in the next election.
Will they be sympathetic to Israel and their Democrat commissars or will they go RED
Personally, I think there is very good a chance they would re-elect him if they had a chance :mad:
Florida Senate votes to remove Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel from office
By Eliott C. McLaughlin, Dianne Gallagher and Angela Barajas, CNN
Updated 10:09 PM ET, Wed October 23, 2019
Vote of no confidence for Broward sheriff
The five state senators representing portions of Broward County voted to reinstate the former sheriff.
article link: Communist News Network (https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/23/us/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-reinstatement/index.html)