Inaugural High-Speed Train Crashes on First Passenger Run

[Old Dog New Trick]

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Amtrak train derails, dangles over interstate in Washington state

https://usat.ly/2AWIh40

This doesn’t bode well for Amtrak.

Prayers out for those involved.

I used to live just south of there and drove under that bridge at least twice a day for years.

[Sohei]

IIRC, Amtrak has taken some serious hits over the last few years with crashes.

Not sure what the issue is...aging fleet, hiring issues, etc., but it would appear they need to get their act together.

[Box]

Sounds like the news is going to get worse before it gets better - quite a few fatalities being reported. Thoughts and prayers for those impacted.



This is going to get some hard looks. The 2009 stimulus package from the Obama admin dumped well over 10 billion dollars into high-speed rail projects.

Obviously, some folks said "pfft, why" and the mayor of Lakewood said as much just two weeks ago.
A few "republican cities" cancelled the projects as unneeded and excessive.

In 2014 the NYT even ran stories about the Obama-legacy transportation project and the Washington Examiner ran a story earlier this year about it.
Detractors said it was an unneeded waste and they were written off as partisan hacks - now all is left is trying to figure out how to blame this on President Trump.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Never mind link didn’t work

[Old Dog New Trick]

If that is where I think it is there is no get around close by either.

Not a great one but there are actually a few.

Mounts Road and I-5 is crash site.

Detours will be out of Lacy around to Tacoma

[Old Dog New Trick]

It’s bad!

There are fatalities.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Looks like Northbound I-5 is open and still moving so I would expect WADOT to create a split lane from Mounts Road or in DuPont down to Nisqually (Exit 111) or just pull Jersey barriers north and south.

Eye witness just reported seeing it all happen. Train jumped the track at a sharp curve.

This will be human error and speed was a factor.

[cbtengr]

Prayers out to all involved. I have my doubts as to whether we as a nation are ready for high speed rail. Then again what is considered to be high speed in this country? Other countries are way ahead of us in this mode of transportation, Japan immediately comes to mind.

[PSM]

Twenty-first-century vehicles running on 19th-century rails. Brilliant!

[Old Dog New Trick]

Twenty-first-century vehicles running on 19th-century rails. Brilliant!

Looks more like a Twentieth Century vehicle running on (brand new) 21st-Century rails.

They just completed this $181-million dollar project so the train can save 10-minutes over the old route and go ‘probably’ an extra 20-mph.

Gee, I wonder if the center of gravity changes from an empty train to one loaded with people?

[Sohei]

A very costly endeavor - in lives and money - to save 10 minutes!

Sad use of funds!

Rest In Peace to those that were lost!

[TWITCHY]

I know terrorism is possible, but is it probable in this situation. There are initial and new reports that the train hit a truck/vehicle. I know that maintenance crews operate on rail lines in pickups, but it seems like a strange place for a truck to be on the line. The location (intersection with I-5) and timing (inaugural run of this line) could lend to a terrorist attack. Then again, the infrastructure could be so shitty that it couldn’t handle the train.

[bblhead672]

A very costly endeavor - in lives and money - to save 10 minutes!

Sad use of funds!


If Obama had a rail line it would work like this.

[Old Dog New Trick]

- 77 people taken to local hospitals. 83 people were on board.

- There are multiple fatalities, but no official count


Math is hard?

Godspeed to the victims, condolences to the families, prayers out to the injured.

[Ret10Echo]

Prayers out for the injured, killed and their families

Social Media has conspiracy spins cranked up.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Of the 77 in hospitals no telling how many were from the train vs motorist. I can't believe no cars on I5 were hit and if they were the people inside had to be hurt or killed. From experience I can tell you the last thing EMS cars about is telling the news media what is going on at this point.

Oh I’m just being antagonist. The news article I C&P’d said what it said. I took that as 83 people were on the train and 77 of them were taken to local area hospitals (presumably alive) and they didn’t know how many people were deceased.

Ed Troyer PCSO PAO said there were no fatalities from auto traffic.

[Old Dog New Trick]

lol sorry. That is funny. BTW yes math is hard for them. Perhaps they should try the new math.

Engineer math - maximum speed for entire rail route 79mph, this one corner 40mph, my speed 81.5mph. What could go wrong?

This pisses me off. I’ve ridden that train several times back and forth to Klammath Falls, OR., and took my son for his first modern train ride on this train down to Centrailia.

I would be pissed if (and will be pissed) if this Engineer disregarded his parameters for safe operation to showcase the awesomeness of his train. If and when it comes out the Engineer had never operated the train on this new track and was unaware of this turn then I hope the families sue the shit out of SpAmTrack.

No one wanted this and everyone said High-Speed rail in the PNW was unnecessary and not feasible.

Will this be “First” and last, I doubt it but ridership is already at huge subsidized losses. There is an Orange bus “Bolt” from Seattle to Portland costs less and takes less or the same time.

I’m not surprised by this, they should be so lucky to have crashed right on the Interstate so rescuers and EMS could get to them. There are many places where a train crash would not have access for miles. Just saying...it’s not Europe.

[Texas_Shooter]

Engineer math - maximum speed for entire rail route 79mph, this one corner 40mph, my speed 81.5mph. What could go wrong?



2 1/2 miles over the speed limit is not problem. If 2-1/2 MPH make or breaks that main track then there are other issues going on. Someone said earlier a truck was on the track, it could have been on a crossing and the gates came down and the truck didn't clear. Its very unlikely that a track inspector was out there because he would have had main track protection from the dispatcher not allowing a train to enter the limits he was occupying. So it was probably a truck at a crossing or it was track caused i.e. a broken rail or wide gauge (Rails are spaced farther apart than the allowed tolerance).

As for saving the ten minutes. It adds up and sometimes the delays can go up from ten minutes because lets say a freight train breaks down or the crew runs out of operating hours in their tour of duty then Amtrak can be delayed even further. I've seen Amtrak between San Antonio and Houston take 5-6 sometimes 7 hours instead of the 3 because a coal train broke in two and there was no way around. Amtrak and the Class 1 railroads don't get along but have to because of federal law.

[Golf1echo]

Looking at the extensive graffiti on the bridge it's clear the tracks are not secure...reading now the train hit something on the tracks, the train itself has graffiti on it, new cars? With all those SJWs and free ranging anarchists I'd prefer any high speed rail I was on be secured. Tragic.

[Texas_Shooter]

In on of their recent publishings whatever you wanna call it they showed how to make a rebar reinforced concrete derail to put on the tracks to derail freight and passenger trains. The threat is real

[Old Dog New Trick]

So the good news is that they revived three of the six dead, the bad news is that three people remained dead. (Worse news is that they counted those three people twice.)

In other news there were more ticketed passengers and a technician was added to the crew for a total of 86 people onboard the train when it crashed. Of that 72 people were taken to area hospitals. Odds are people in the cars and truck hit on I-5 were also taken to hospitals but we don’t have those numbers.

It’s been reported that the curve speed was posted as 30-mph which is 51-mph slower than the train is reportedly traveling before the lead locomotive headed straight off the track.

P.S. If anyone is offended by my dark humor my apologies, I’m wired that way.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Texas Shooter -

This was pure ineptitude on a grand scale by AmTrak. No object or stalled vehicle on a crossing or the tracks. The closest road crossing is the entrance to the Fort Lewis Golf Course. Not very busy this time of year this time of morning, and far enough away to have not been a factor.

There may be many reasons they have spent nearly $200 million over the past ten years to convert this old rail line into passenger services but the S-Curve over Interstate 5 has been there since the late 50’s or 60’s. Like I said, I lived a couple miles south of this bridge and drove under it daily for about three years. Lived in the JBLM area for the last 27+ years.

The politics behind this is the leading cause of this tragedy. Whatever the NTSB comes up with to blame for the cause of this, they will not blame the leadership of Sound Transit, Amtrak or BNSF. They will blame the Engineer and probably, rightfully so. Whether he (or she) got behind schedule and they wanted to show that this new and never before used route was an improvement over the old route will or should be part of the investigation. Save ten-minutes here, ten-minutes there is great but like you said Amtrak rents these tracks the cargo train companies own the track and in the PNW - coal, oil, wood products and new automobiles from Asia have priority over the 35-50 people riding the train between Seattle and Portland. As in Philadelphia this will be operator error he the Engineer screwed up big time.

For those unfamiliar. This train goes back and forth without changing front to back. In this instance the engine (locomotive) was pushing 13 cars down the track. The lead looking engine is actually not an engine but a generator and luggage car. I don’t know if that has any effect on a train to be pushed or pulled but that too will be examined.

I love trains but I wouldn’t cry if this route went the way of the Do Do Bird. Why they spent and continue to spend money to support it baffles my mind. There can be only one reason and that supports the corruption of Sound Transit and the liberal democracy of Washington State.

Sound Transit is a leading cause for why I live in Texas now! It’s corrupt to the core and the fleecing of Washingtonians. Again, this tragic accident is a symptom of the ideology that has destroyed the State.

Obviously, JMO but I’ve watched it happen. If not this crash the next one along this route. Some areas of this rail line are miles from roads, passes through forests and follows the Puget Sound and Columbia River. It also passes through more than a dozen cities and towns at grade level where logging trucks and other big rigs carrying gravel, cargo and oil crisscross the network all the way down to Portland and beyond. The line is not straight, cannot be straight; there are too many natural and man made obstacles in the way.

[Team Sergeant]

Looking at the extensive graffiti on the bridge it's clear the tracks are not secure...reading now the train hit something on the tracks, the train itself has graffiti on it, new cars? With all those SJWs and free ranging anarchists I'd prefer any high speed rail I was on be secured. Tragic.

How very “first century” of you.:rolleyes:

Yeah, we should build a wall with guard towers every mile or so, call it Hadrian's “Rail” Wall. Maybe we could apply the Wall to our unsecure highways too, they kill 30k plus a year.

(Hang on, I’ve got a roll of tinfoil around here somewhere.)

[Golf1echo]

A little over the top, I can see that. The dedicated passenger rail lines I think of are generally secured or elevated, perhaps it's the third rail aspect? With trains maybe animals on the tracks?

[Ret10Echo]

How very “first century” of you.:rolleyes:

Yeah, we should build a wall with guard towers every mile or so, call it Hadrian's “Rail” Wall. Maybe we could apply the Wall to our unsecure highways too, they kill 30k plus a year.

(Hang on, I’ve got a roll of tinfoil around here somewhere.)

TSA will lock it down securely.

[Chucko]

I just read on Fox news.

"Federal investigators are looking into whether the Amtrak engineer operating a train which derailed and killed three people Monday morning in Washington state was distracted by an employee-in-training, an official told The Associated Press"

A trainee in the cab with the engineer and the engineer may have been distracted.
The article never said the sex of the trainee but I can let my imagination run wild for myself... They need to blame somebody I guess.

[Golf1echo]

When I mentioned secured I was trying to describe what they have done along I25 vs an open non delineated area. They have done this 8' fence along the freight lines.

[sfshooter]

I'm not sure if this was a passenger only rail or not. Amtrak has the right of way on all freight lines across the country (ok, I speak for the BNSF, having been an employee there once). When they come along all the freight trains have to move out of the way as the freight RR is fined if they delay them. I can remember sitting in sidings for hours waiting for them because some sorry ass dispatcher was to afraid of getting in trouble for delaying them.
It is a government funded boondoggle that should be sold to someone who can run it and maintain it with out public funding!

[cbtengr]

It is a government funded boondoggle that should be sold to someone who can run it and maintain it with out public funding!

Exactly it's a government run boondoggle. I do not believe anyone could run it at a profit. Passenger rail service is no more than a romantic notion whose time has long passed. I was kind of under the impression that DT was gonna pull the funding for it.

[Ret10Echo]

Exactly it's a government run boondoggle. I do not believe anyone could run it at a profit. Passenger rail service is no more than a romantic notion whose time has long passed. I was kind of under the impression that DT was gonna pull the funding for it.

Romanticized....



California’s bullet train could cost taxpayers 50% more than estimated — as much as $3.6 billion more. And that’s just for the first 118 miles through the Central Valley, which was supposed to be the easiest part of the route between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

A confidential Federal Railroad Administration risk analysis, obtained by The Times, projects that building bridges, viaducts, trenches and track from Merced to Shafter, just north of Bakersfield, could cost $9.5 billion to $10 billion, compared with the original budget of $6.4 billion.


original cost of the bullet train was estimated about $33 billion for a system that would run from San Diego to Sacramento. Since then the cost has risen to $64 billion, while the scope of the project has been sharply curtailed.

The second development is a new Legislative Analyst’s Office report showing the riskiness of counting heavily on funding from the state’s cap-and-trade program in which pollution rights are auctioned off. An October Los Angeles Times analysis noted the state expected to eventually get $5.2 billion from bonds to be paid off with proceeds from cap-and-trade fees. But the LAO warned that it was “highly uncertain” how much cap-and-trade might generate for the state and that the amounts could vary wildly from year to year. Given this report, a rational investor is unlikely to buy such bonds.

So why would the rail authority propose such a dubious funding mechanism — a bond paid off with an unreliable revenue stream? Because of desperation stemming from its core problem: It has never plausibly explained how the project will be built. After $10 billion in available state and federal funds are gone, the authority has no funds it can count on besides cap-and-trade revenue, so it wants to leverage those dollars. As for attracting outside investors, that can’t happen without the state offering ridership or revenue guarantees — which, as the LAO pointed out way back in 2010, appears illegal.

[Kcolliver]

Now saying the train "a high speed" train on its first trip was doing 80 mph on a curve limited to 30 mph. He was also distracted by a trainee in the cab. WTF

[Team Sergeant]

Now saying the train "a high speed" train on its first trip was doing 80 mph on a curve limited to 30 mph. He was also distracted by a trainee in the cab. WTF


I used to ride along with cops all the time and had a state trooper buddy that I rode with for a few years after I retired.

He pulled over all sorts of morons usually for "excessive" speeding, 95 in a 55 is one I will not forget. Female, excuse, "I didn't know I was going that fast." Liar, here's your ticket.

Please tell me how many times have you or anyone else on here gone 80mph and not realized it.

Everyone has an excuse for being an idiot.

[Chucko]

Please tell me how many times have you or anyone else on here gone 80mph and not realized it.
.

A few months ago on a hilly curvy state hwy in my dually GMC I was following 4 cars for 10 miles going 45-50 on a 55 MPH road. I got a telephone call and was jawing when it opened up in from and all 3 cars following the slow lead car started passing. I pulled over and started around going down a long grade. I just glanced at the speedometer and I was clipping 90 so I obviously slowed down to a 58. No excuse but I was just pouring the coals to her and lost awareness while on the phone.

[Old Dog New Trick]

I have a name for this single locomotive if it survived.

HSRS TITANIC II

and for its existing service they can paint 1-Support Engine, Baggage Car and 12-Coaches in black with an X over them.




HSRS - High Speed Rail Service.

I’d just soon this whole train get retired! The American taxpayers should not be on the hook to replace what was already waste, fraud and abuse.

[Old Dog New Trick]

A few months ago on a hilly curvy state hwy in my dually GMC I was following 4 cars for 10 miles going 45-50 on a 55 MPH road. I got a telephone call and was jawing when it opened up in from and all 3 cars following the slow lead car started passing. I pulled over and started around going down a long grade. I just glanced at the speedometer and I was clipping 90 so I obviously slowed down to a 58. No excuse but I was just pouring the coals to her and lost awareness while on the phone.

Just start doing push-ups! I’ll post again when you can stop!

[Old Dog New Trick]

I haven’t said you can stop yet.

But, please stop talking on the phone while driving. It’s not the device it is the conversation.

[Chucko]

I haven’t said you can stop yet.

But, please stop talking on the phone while driving. It’s not the device it is the conversation.

Doing many push ups to pay for my deed. Truthfully though, I can't do any, I am having a shoulder replacement January 29th. Then you watch out :lifter:lifter:lifter

[miclo18d]

I have a name for this single locomotive if it survived.

HSRS TITANIC II

and for its existing service they can paint 1-Support Engine, Baggage Car and 12-Coaches in black with an X over them.




HSRS - High Speed Rail Service.

I’d just soon this whole train get retired! The American taxpayers should not be on the hook to replace what was already waste, fraud and abuse.
They (libs) were REALLY pushing an high speed corridor between Tampa and Orlando, with “free money” from Uncle Sugar being the “carrot”.

I did an anecdotal math comparison based on the ticket price/time of travel to the cost and time to travel in a car and..... you guessed it! It’s cheaper and faster to drive to Orlando and you have your car there with you to make changes to your plan. The only advantage would be: if you wanted to drink, you wouldn’t be driving, but then you could just get a hotel room pretty cheap there.

I just think it’s a libtard, European train, fantasy that libs have. They think that European socialism is cool, “See, they ride trains everywhere!” Yeah dumbass, they also pay 50+% tax rate and you’re “equally” as poor as everyone else in your country. But screw it! You get to ride a train!!!!

[Streck-Fu]

European like train systems are now impossible here for a variety of reasons. Rail usage died for a reason. American sense of independence lead to a culture or personal car ownership driven by the idea that you can go wherever, whenever.
For distances too impractical to drive, airline tickets became affordable.

The existing rail lines were taken over by freight and those unused fell to disrepair.

And, our private property laws make it very difficult for governments or rail companies to acquire the land necessary to build new rails. We don't have the ability to build the rail lines necessary to establish widespread service like the Eurail.