View Full Version : .45 Mystery Discharge
Dean Jarvis
12-15-2017, 14:44
I've wanted to run this by an 18B or someone knowledgeable about the old military .45 and any glitches it might have.
Back in 1971 I was on a rifle range with my Cambodian company. Me and my bode CO were firing our .45's. I don't recall if I had fired a box of amo more or less. When finished I jacked a round in the chamber, put the gun on safety and put it in my custom holster which had a small leather strap that went over the hammer and buttoned down. The strap would not snap had the hammer been back.
I then walked over to a team member and was talking with him. I had my hands on my hips not touching the .45 when it discharged. The bullet took off the button on my fatigue pants and just caught the inside of my boot and nicked my big toe.
I've been around guns all my life and I consider myself extremely safe when handling guns.
I'm sure I put the safety on and I was not touching the grip safety so it was not depressed. I've always been of the belief that the gun cooked off, but not sure how a .45 could get that hot.
Anyone know if a history of this weapon discharging accidently and don't tell me this thread should be in the Comedy Zone :rolleyes:
Old Dog New Trick
12-15-2017, 14:55
Dean, this thread belongs in the Comedy Zone! :D
How did you put the safety on and the strap over your now “un-cocked” 1911?
(Otherwise it’s a mystery to me) I don’t think it cooked off.
ETA: Let’s say you did everything you said and it discharged.
1) Did it break or unsnap your retainer strap?
2) Did it cycle a new round or jam every step in the firing sequence afterwards?
3) Did it pass or fail a functions test after the discharge?
Answer to first question way above - TTBOMK you can’t activate the safety lever unless the gun is cocked!
Team Sergeant
12-15-2017, 15:44
I seriously doubt it cooked off. And I've had weapons cook off in my control.
If it cooked off there would not have been a firing pin dent on the primer.
And while the grip safeties failed all the time, the trigger had to be engaged (pulled) in order for the hammer to get past the “half cock” position.
So you placed the gun in the holster, thumb safe off and something in the holster engaged the trigger when you touched the side.
Watch this video at the 3:20 mark it animates a 1911.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6SmlOEzNBs
RCummings
12-15-2017, 16:31
Sir, I took care of many .45's for 2nd ID as the 45B, with many days on the firing range with all types of folks using Remington Rand, Singer and many others. I never witnessed the weapon discharge on its own. From what you remembered would it have been possible that someone in your proximity fired the round that impacted you? May I ask how you knew that your weapon discharged?
V/R
Bob
Dean Jarvis
12-15-2017, 17:50
Sir, I took care of many .45's for 2nd ID as the 45B, with many days on the firing range with all types of folks using Remington Rand, Singer and many others. I never witnessed the weapon discharge on its own. From what you remembered would it have been possible that someone in your proximity fired the round that impacted you? May I ask how you knew that your weapon discharged?
V/R
Bob
Very interesting comment. As a matter of fact, the Cambodians were filing off the range right to the side of me and when it went off the guy I was talking too thought one of the bodes shot me and he knocked the guy on his ass. However, looking at my gun, the hammer was cocked and there was a hole in the bottom of the holster.
RCummings
12-15-2017, 18:07
With the hole in the bottom of the holster, I have nothing. Was the pant leg burned?
I have most certainly not seen everything, just my own experience with the firearm. I believe that a statement could be made that the trajectories of projectiles would be more problematic than a failure of that particular weapon or the operator, (you). During those days how and who maintained your weapons, (replacement parts inspections), I am glad the bullet did not harm you.
Very respectfully,
Bob
Old Dog New Trick
12-15-2017, 19:14
Just my idea but there are some issues with my idea.
You cocked and locked it and when holstering it you tucked your shirt into the holster while at the same accidentally flicking the safety off. You think you got your strap fastened correctly but maybe not. When you put your hands on your hips you raised your shoulders enough to pull your shirt out of the holster and the gun went bang.
I have no idea how the “custom” holster was made and how much coverage it provided to the gun.
JMO maybe you could provide a picture of this holster and that was your problem.
ETA: As crazy as this sounds a shell casing may have fallen into your holster and you were able to holster the gun over a foreign object that pressed the trigger.
Old Dog New Trick
12-15-2017, 19:16
I am far from an expert but I am wondering if the hammer was worn and just fell when jolted. I have heard of that happening usually after a home grown trigger job but it is possable it was so old possably WWI vintage when they rebuilt it someting was not perfect. Just a guess.
My other hypothesis but then the gun would have been malfunctioning on the range.
Team Sergeant
12-15-2017, 19:53
Very interesting comment. As a matter of fact, the Cambodians were filing off the range right to the side of me and when it went off the guy I was talking too thought one of the bodes shot me and he knocked the guy on his ass. However, looking at my gun, the hammer was cocked and there was a hole in the bottom of the holster.
Dead giveaway right there.... ;)
I'm sticking with a worn sear and something engaged that trigger in the holster.
RCummings
12-15-2017, 21:33
....
Dean Jarvis
12-15-2017, 22:40
Was the pant leg burned?
Yes, there was a line down my leg to my knee where it looked like the thread was cut. Just lucky that it missed my knee and foot.
The 1911 was not issued to me. I had scrounged it and there had been no maintenance done on it. I'm sure it had been kicking around VN for many moons.
RCummings
12-15-2017, 22:45
Was the weapon inspected after the incident?
V/R
Bob
Dean Jarvis
12-15-2017, 22:55
Was the weapon inspected after the incident?
V/R
Bob
No, they just took it away from me. No one ever asked what happened. The assumption was that I was just practicing my quick draw. :lifter
RCummings
12-15-2017, 23:02
Well, on the bright side you were so quick nobody saw you draw, fire and reholster. So your practice paid off....probably still legendary!
V/R
Bob
That is why he is called the "Waco Kid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzcgyk62cHU)."
It was just a negligent discharge that you still haven't learned to live with. ;)
Dean Jarvis
12-16-2017, 09:39
That is why he is called the "Waco Kid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzcgyk62cHU)."
"Well, on the bright side you were so quick nobody saw you draw, fire and reholster. So your practice paid off....probably still legendary!"
."
I see how this all works now...I challenge the 18B's and all the knowledgeable weapons people on this forum to diagnose my weapons malfunction and my manhood is under assault with clear evidence that y'all suggesting this thread be moved to the Comedy Zone as I feared. :p
Team Sergeant
12-16-2017, 09:40
The 1911 was not issued to me. I had scrounged it and there had been no maintenance done on it. I'm sure it had been kicking around VN for many moons.
All bets are off then...... if the indig had their hands on it no telling what mods might have been done to it. Having worked with quite a few foreign nationals in various countries the one thing most have a knack for is screwing with their weapons to the point of malfunction.
RCummings
12-16-2017, 14:28
With respect, I don't think this could be moved to the Comedy Zone without a photo of your face when it happened or the luckless gentlemans face when he found himself on the ground afterward. Did you continue to use your "quick draw rig"?
V/R
Bob
Dean Jarvis
12-16-2017, 17:43
With respect, I don't think this could be moved to the Comedy Zone without a photo of your face when it happened or the luckless gentlemans face when he found himself on the ground afterward. Did you continue to use your "quick draw rig"?
V/R
Bob
In my mind's eye, I'm thinking it was pretty funny seeing me jumping around on one foot. The poor bode was thinking WTF just happened. After they took my .45 away I came up with a .38 figuring it would be handy in a bar fight.:D
RCummings
12-16-2017, 18:39
....
I'm interested in the holster. How did the bullet hit a big toe and which one was it? Was it an appendix carry? I was near a guy that had a .45 ND on Okinawa from an issue holster and it hit about an inch from the middle of the outside of his right foot.
Dean Jarvis
12-17-2017, 06:58
I'm interested in the holster. How did the bullet hit a big toe and which one was it? Was it an appendix carry? I was near a guy that had a .45 ND on Okinawa from an issue holster and it hit about an inch from the middle of the outside of his right foot.
It's has nothing to do with the holster. I stand with one foot cocked out. As in this picture I have my left foot out. The bullet shot off the button on my fatigue pocked, made a crease in the fatigue pants to about my knee, then went through my boot nicking my big toe at the joint to my foot. I was very lucky.:eek:
frostfire
12-17-2017, 12:34
it hit about an inch from the middle of the outside of his right foot.
Ha!
I used to wear that lightweight rocky c4 trainer for rucking and rope climbing/rappelling at Tucker during selection prep. Well as yall know that lightweight foamy material got burnt pretty fast by rope, leaving a nice almost circular gash to my right foot outer sole.
When I had to wear that c4 to the national match, teammates and random folks gave me crap and wouldn't stop asking me to tell my ND story with .45
As TS said, the indig do all kind of mods without armorer supervision. The sparrow boys disabled their 1911 grip safety so it can fire w less than optimum grip. An indo sf showed a pic of his modifying the Ss2 trigger w piece of shell brass, creating a poor man's Geiselle etc. I warned him it would affect its durability to no avail. Hopefully he ll never find out during firefight
RCummings
12-17-2017, 13:44
....
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It's has nothing to do with the holster. I stand with one foot cocked out. As in this picture I have my left foot out. The bullet shot off the button on my fatigue pocked, made a crease in the fatigue pants to about my knee, then went through my boot nicking my big toe at the joint to my foot. I was very lucky.:eek:
Sweet send off. :D ;)
Pat