View Full Version : Back from combat, guardsmen feel slighted by Army medical care
https://www.militarytimesdot.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/11/09/back-from-combat-guardsmen-feel-slighted-by-army-medical-care/
Change dot to .
Ft. Bliss has a bad track record in dealing with NG SF post deployment. I'm glad that this SSG spoke out since it's now at the CSA level.
“I had originally planned to start medical school this fall,” Zeigler said. “But then the Army threatened me with AWOL status if I didn’t come back for their medical care, after I didn’t get it the first time. So now I’m getting the care I need, but my life is on hold for another year.”
Guy,
I'm sure you figured out that it was A Co. H.E. is the Company SGM (I think you and him were on 75).
Eagle5US
11-13-2017, 13:22
BOO FUCKING HOO:mad:
I will refrain from getting into the details of the HUNDREDS of NG/AR guys who literally milk the system for YEARS with "My 6mo AD time caused my heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, near blindness, need for full upper and lower dentures, and any medications for the above for the rest of my life, knee replacement, heart transplant, LASIK surgery, etc etc etc....." and simply say that if the AD forces kept every activated guy ON AD, getting paid (which is why many of them come up with new and "imaginative" medical conditions every time another has been addressed)....there would not be enough space on any base, anywhere in the United States to hold them all. :rolleyes:
If they weren't incapacitated by their condition while on "Active Status", there is no reason for them to suddenly be incapacitated on their return. They can go back to wherever, STOP DRAWING AD PAY AND BENEFITS, and get their care on a ROUTINE BASIS like everyone else. Active duty guys coming home don't get "priority specialty care". Even as the GP PA it was difficult to get my guys in for labral repairs because:
a. VERY COMMON
b. Painful? yes Uncomfortable? sure LIFE THREATENING? NO
c. First thing Ortho says -> Physical therapy 6 months and then we will take a look
Much of this routing back to home stations for routine post deployment care was in response to, early in the war, when the NG and AR folks would come back and suddenly have to remain on active status for years with their multiple minor complaints, specialty exams, specialist appointments etc (refer to paragraph 1 please)...that's one reason WHY it used to take 6 months for an MRI, 18 months for knee or shoulder surgery. The WTU is not the new "med hold" - it is the TRANSITION for folks getting MED BOARDED or those who have years long recoveries for major illness or injury. Those Nurse case managers literally care for 25-30 soldiers at a time (2014), coordinating their appointments, prescriptions, chemotherapy, rehab, prosthetic fittings, disability packets etc. Original staffing matrix was for each to have no more than 9 patients.
They want to be paid as active duty while waiting around for medical appointments? Then let them come active duty. Further, they should educate themselves ahead of time that they are not any more entitled to "priority" for their routine medical issues than anyone else is.
BOO FUCKING HOO:mad:
Eagle has a point: I reviewed the packet of an O-6 a month or so ago that came back on active duty from the Guard. The day he arrives he goes over to try to get enrolled in the WTB with a literal scroll of "issues", (he was obviously looking to get an AD retirement).
he had so much crap made up in there that it took me a bit to sort it out and formulate the appropriate strategy. The main thing I NEVER got an answer about was: HOW in the hell - if this guy was THIS jacked up - did he ever get back on orders...??!!??
Now, it didn't help him any that he and I happened to be downrange at the same time and in roughly the same location during his wildly-imagined claims of injury. No medical records in support; no LOD in support; no nothing....but some 11-13 year old "claims" of secret-squirrel stuff".
Yeah, that went over real well......
Eagle has a point: I reviewed the packet of an O-6 a month or so ago that came back on active duty from the Guard. The day he arrives he goes over to try to get enrolled in the WTB with a literal scroll of "issues", (he was obviously looking to get an AD retirement).
he had so much crap made up in there that it took me a bit to sort it out and formulate the appropriate strategy. The main thing I NEVER got an answer about was: HOW in the hell - if this guy was THIS jacked up - did he ever get back on orders...??!!??
Now, it didn't help him any that he and I happened to be downrange at the same time and in roughly the same location during his wildly-imagined claims of injury. No medical records in support; no LOD in support; no nothing....but some 11-13 year old "claims" of secret-squirrel stuff".
Yeah, that went over real well......
FOR DISCUSSION>>>
NOT an attack on you... but funny how we don't emphasize the indivdual but rather the component.
Sure you had an experience with an ARNG (your emphasis on Compo, not mine) officer that seemed jacked up. Great. If he is trying to falsify stuff, he should be fried. That does not mean that in all situations that ARNG (a member of the Reserve Component) claims are bogus, no more than someone who is was active duty but right before retires "discovers" he needs a CPAP machine, is.
Sounds like this INDIVIDUAL in your example was a shitbag.... Just like lots of Active Component shitbags who, in and out of our community, are...... for a bunch of reasons such as integrity, sexual impropriety, opfund, alcohol, (other stuff) etc. For example , the E9(s) who, .. Nevermind. Not productive.
Now, I think that the issue is that we are asking the Reserve Component to do things that our system was not set up to do.... deploy episodically in an undeclared war....is causing problems. But, problems like this we will have when the Active Component can't fight the war(s) that it has been tasked with without the RC and without formal declaration from Congress. Should the Acive Component be larger? Sure. I agree wholeheartedly x5. But right now it is not. The issue I think, comes with the initial intake (inventory) process. IF the government (Active Component), needs the RC then whose responsibility is it to do a good medical inventory on the way onto Active Duty?"
Eagle has a point: I reviewed the packet of an O-6 a month or so ago that came back on active duty from the Guard. The day he arrives he goes over to try to get enrolled in the WTB with a literal scroll of "issues", (he was obviously looking to get an AD retirement).
he had so much crap made up in there that it took me a bit to sort it out and formulate the appropriate strategy. The main thing I NEVER got an answer about was: HOW in the hell - if this guy was THIS jacked up - did he ever get back on orders...??!!??
Now, it didn't help him any that he and I happened to be downrange at the same time and in roughly the same location during his wildly-imagined claims of injury. No medical records in support; no LOD in support; no nothing....but some 11-13 year old "claims" of secret-squirrel stuff".
Yeah, that went over real well......
Wow a Guard guy doing something wrong? Not like the Paladins on Active Duty.
The Caveman
11-20-2017, 21:35
FOR DISCUSSION>>>
NOT an attack on you... but funny how we don't emphasize the indivdual but rather the component.
Sure you had an experience with an ARNG (your emphasis on Compo, not mine) officer that seemed jacked up. Great. If he is trying to falsify stuff, he should be fried. That does not mean that in all situations that ARNG (a member of the Reserve Component) claims are bogus, no more than someone who is was active duty but right before retires "discovers" he needs a CPAP machine, is.
Sounds like this INDIVIDUAL in your example was a shitbag.... Just like lots of Active Component shitbags who, in and out of our community, are...... for a bunch of reasons such as integrity, sexual impropriety, opfund, alcohol, (other stuff) etc. For example , the E9(s) who, .. Nevermind. Not productive.
Now, I think that the issue is that we are asking the Reserve Component to do things that our system was not set up to do.... deploy episodically in an undeclared war....is causing problems. But, problems like this we will have when the Active Component can't fight the war(s) that it has been tasked with without the RC and without formal declaration from Congress. Should the Acive Component be larger? Sure. I agree wholeheartedly x5. But right now it is not. The issue I think, comes with the initial intake (inventory) process. IF the government (Active Component), needs the RC then whose responsibility is it to do a good medical inventory on the way onto Active Duty?"
I'm seeing both sides of the discussion. While individuals with questionable motives exist in ARNG just as they do in RA (and everywhere in general.) to leach the system and should be exposed, there are still troubles within the system for individuals who need help caused by the systematic overload from the Reserve Component deploying episodically as you stated and also the backed up medical care Eagle is talking about, and symptoms/causes could be discussed and pinpointed all day.
But I think neither is the direct reason for the above articles complaints. Systematic denial of ones symptons could be contributed to maybe a singular PA or other provider perhaps trying to weed out an individual leaching the system, but multiple complaints and you have to think it might not be the soldier.
I think the fact there are people complaining on condition of anonymity speaks volumes as well and doesn't surprise me. I don't think 19th SFG was getting singled out when all this occurred, being on active duty I've heard the same complaints all before. Always the same doctors, all complaints submitted through investigating authorities related to certain providers at Bliss seem to suddenly dissapear, and the PA's providers and other officers causing the most problems seem to be getting the best OER's and positions to boost career progression. While you can pretty much bet the enlisted below E-7 without ties are getting screwed with while the higher officers get house calls.
I'd reccomend anybody dealing with the system at Bliss stay on their toes.
BOO FUCKING HOO:mad:
I will refrain from getting into the details of the HUNDREDS of NG/AR guys who literally milk the system for YEARS with "My 6mo AD time blindness, need for full upper and lower dentures, and any medications for the above for the rest of my life, knee replacement, heart transplant, LASIK surgery, etc etc etc....." and simply say that if the AD forces kept every activated guy ON AD, getting paid (which is why many of them come up with new and "imaginative" medical conditions every time another has been addressed)....there would not be enough space on any base, anywhere in the United States to hold them all. :rolleyes:
If they weren't incapacitated by their condition while on "Active Status", there is no reason for them to suddenly be incapacitated on their return. They can go back to wherever, STOP DRAWING AD PAY AND BENEFITS, and get their care on a ROUTINE BASIS like everyone else. Active duty guys coming home don't get "priority specialty care". Even as the GP PA it was difficult to get my guys in for labral repairs because:
a. VERY COMMON
b. Painful? yes Uncomfortable? sure LIFE THREATENING? NO
c. First thing Ortho says -> Physical therapy 6 months and then we will take a look
Much of this routing back to home stations for routine post deployment care was in response to, early in the war, when the NG and AR folks would come back and suddenly have to remain on active status for years with their multiple minor complaints, specialty exams, specialist appointments etc (refer to paragraph 1 please)...that's one reason WHY it used to take 6 months for an MRI, 18 months for knee or shoulder surgery. The WTU is not the new "med hold" - it is the TRANSITION for folks getting MED BOARDED or those who have years long recoveries for major illness or injury. Those Nurse case managers literally care for 25-30 soldiers at a time (2014), coordinating their appointments, prescriptions, chemotherapy, rehab, prosthetic fittings, disability packets etc. Original staffing matrix was for each to have no more than 9 patients.
They want to be paid as active duty while waiting around for medical appointments? Then let them come active duty. Further, they should educate themselves ahead of time that they are not any more entitled to "priority" for their routine medical issues than anyone else is.
BOO FUCKING HOO:mad:
Doc,
So because, early in the War the Active Component "professionals" needed the Reserve Component because they couldn't handle the war by themselves,they needed to call in the Reserve Component, the issues are somehow thrown on the RC? Then, the fact that it causes a medical backlog is somehow on the RC Soldier? Wow. If the AC had the war handled why did they need us fucked up, get over, RC guys?
Give me a break. If Army regulations are poorly written then whose fault is that?
Your post was somewhat condescending. I could launch innuendos of whole RC battalions worth of awards whom the AC "professionals" refused to process. Foreign governments making the decision to award RC members SIGNIFICANT awards for heroism before our own community could do it? Yes the RC had those.
There is a clear disparity between NG SF and AD SF when it comes to programs such as EXOS and THOR 3 for post deployment medical treatment. It's about time that this reached the right people to fix things. Even the USSOCOM Care Coalition is frustrated with the NG process with regards to WTU.
What the Army Times article doesn't cover is that another NG SF Company (Numerous WIA's to include aumptee's) that went through Bliss for demob, and surprise!!!! same issues which means that this issue is a hot topic now with the Brass.
The only good thing that's coming out of this is that the Group Commander has stated that every future 19th mobilization will now go though Bragg to prevent issues like at Bliss.
Eagle5US
11-20-2017, 23:36
Jeez-
As with everything else:
If it doesn’t apply to you, don’t make it about you.
Of course EVERY “ANYTHING” isn’t “EVERYTHING” - good or bad.
ABC123, you are spot-on. Please don't misread what I said (or, maybe I said it poorly). Because of my job, I see a LOT of the shitbags. I try not to let that influence my perspective but perhaps it carries over. I spent 7 years in the reserves myself and would put my last reserve team against ANY active duty team (we were all young SF guys up at Devens that got out to finish college).
Point in support - we have a guy that just came through here that was activated to go to Puerto Rico. he spent three weeks in Puerto Rico and now he cannot get OFF active duty as he has a litany of medical and dental issues that must be addressed before he is released. Are you telling me that these didn't exist three weeks and one day ago? That they just "magicked" during his deployment?
I guess my point was that these guys should be screened medically BEFORE they assume mission. Why that isn't done is pure negligence on the part of the military.
The "Oh, you're fine go fight the war" mentality has to stop. We need to clean up the process or we're going to keep paying a LOT of $$ for guys to be medically retired for 'alleged injuries" when in fact they dropped a paint can on their foot during their civilian job and waited to get back on active duty to feign injury.
And - I'm NOT talking about the Guard SF guys, I'm referring to the Guard in general. The SF Guys are a cut above. I got myself in trouble here for failing to make that distinction a couple years ago.
I also think that we should NOT be giving combat missions to the Guard. The active force can't do what they need to do and they have 365 days to prepare for their mission. The Guard guys get 42 days a year. They can't possibly assume the combat mission that we have assigned to them. it's fairy dust.
Just my opinion though - it's worth what you paid for it.
Hey I guess I was feeling unduly sensitive. Ok. I'll wear that shoe.
Shitbags exist in all compos.
Who is or is not is on a case by case basis.
Having been in a WTU for 12 months after a deployment injury I agree that there are a lot of soldiers NG/AD that milk that system dry. It is almost a med hold for people shamming the system. Hell, there was a He transforming to a Her and then supposedly going back to the force. This He/She was in the same recovery unit as other combat injured personnel. Fuck that.
Twice during my tenure at the WTU at Ft Sam, they cut me short sets of orders knowing I would be there at least a year. When the orders expired they failed to input my next set into DEERS. I lost all medical coverage, they cancelled all my appointments, and I stopped getting paid. I was told its my problem and to fix it.
At the same time I know personally the team that this NG SF guy came from. There's no milking the system in this situation. Those guys went through hell and back. The whole team came back with at least one purple heart. Most of those dudes have some sort of injury to work through.